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Bitterness

Tigers 33, Royals 6.

But hey, they denied Armando Galarraga his perfecto. I credit Hillman's leadership, especially that "put away the chairs" thing he did in Spring Training. Oh, and league average superstar Jose Guillen's feisty attitude. He won't let this bunch accept failure.

Even with four garbage time runs in the first game of the series -- aka the Jimmy Gobble/Penacutioner game -- the Royals couldn't muster enough runs cumulatively to win a single game against the Tigers, a mediocre team with a first place lineup and a fourth place pitching staff.

Perhaps this is life as a .450 ballclub: a mix of the semi-good, like taking two of three from the White Sox and the wholly-bad in a proportion that doesn't quite cancel itself out. For this observer, its been a frustrating and embittering season despite the miniscule uptick in the team's composite performance. (At 45-57 the Royals are actually dead even with last season's record through 102 games.) Somehow, the particular takeaways from this season to date just don't inspire much enthusiasm going forward: the Royals are 32-52 against the American League and unfortunately, no more games against the Senior Circuit are scheduled. Oh wait, Trey's planning for a 180 game season. My bad. The Royals are slated to play the National League Champions this October. And Games 1 & 2 will be at the K.

But it really isn't about wins and losses this season, and just about everyone has known that from the beginning. No, what was needed was some sign that the core of the franchise was rounding into shape and that said core would be competitive for the next two or three seasons. That hasn't happened. Essentially, the positive developments this season have been DeJesus's career campaign, Greinke's emergence as a solid #2 (39th in VORP, before today) and... I suppose the fun we've had with Mike Aviles. (Soria was last year's news.)

The pitching staff that looked so good in April has slowly decayed to pieces. The Royals are 13th in the AL in ERA and 12th in SLG allowed.  Hochevar remains not quite there and Gil Meche remains Gil Meche. Brian Bannister has struggled mightily in the face of some weird, 80's movie-esque body swap with Kyle Davies. The bullpen has had its moments, but after three months of attrition has become sufficiently Peralta-fied. Of course, it's also being asked to pitch four innings a night, so it's understandable that meltdowns and poor matchups have occurred. 

Offensively, whereas we were initially afraid that Dayton Moore might have an OBP blindspot, we might now have to worry about his inability to acquire batting average and slugging as well. Ross Gload and Joey Gathright have been given 532 PAs, and have fifteen extra base hits to show for it. Mark Teahen has evoked memories of Terrence Long, and beloved aspiring DH of the future Miguel Olivo has been brutal for two months.

Most painfully, supposed can't miss prospects Alex Gordon and Billy Butler have mostly missed, while nightly we see highlights of Tim Lincecum, Evan Longoria, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun and the like. Why can't the Royals ever have that guy? Hell, why can't we have someone like Jody Gerut? I'd much rather be 35-67, but with Gordon and Butler dominating the league than what we've seen so far.

And now the precocious Rays, like a more successful sibling, come calling, inviting all sorts of uncomfortable comparisons. Sure, Gordon and Butler can still breakout, much less improve. Sure, the starting rotation looks good going forward. Sure, DeJesus and Guillen give us a fighting chance to have a good outfield. All of that being said, there's been a lot more disappointment than satisfaction this season, creating a sense that, our guys just don't quite pan out like people on other teams.

Seriously, I don't know how this team has 45 wins, other than interleague play and some good timing regarding certain hit streaks and the cumulative good pitching of April. Non-building blocks like Grudz and Mahay have been valuable, and Jose Guillen's insanely hot June was just what the doctor ordered at the time, and makes his overall numbers less productive looking then they have been.

The Royals have one elite player, one guy who is perhaps the best at his position in the league, in Joakim Soria. Sadly, he's a specialist who plays less than half the time. Beyond that it's a more valuable -- though less viscerally thrilling -- Zack Greinke, maybe five guys who are safely "good players" and a roster that doesn't quite suck as much as it did in the past.

Where are we having that parade again, Dayton?

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I think we micro-analyze every game

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course we don't

How many post-game or post-series there are there after won games or sweeps by the Royals? Maybe a dozen. Take out the ones that I’ve created and you’ve got a handful. Compare that to how many tooth-gnashing threads there are post-loss. For some odd reason, we prefer to whine about losses than celebrate wins.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I disagree

I haven’t found that to be the case. It just seems that way because there are more losses.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Look at the stats

If you go back and look at how many post-game threads have been created after wins and after losses, it isn’t even close, and it isn’t at all proportional to the team’s actual wins and losses. There is always more complaining on this site than anything positive. And, for some odd reason, we prefer to bitch about losses a lot more than celebrate wins. By a large margin.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's just old school baseball conventional wisdom

Do you have any metrics to back it up?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm working on it very hard

I’ve got 4 different spreadsheets crunching the relevant numbers right now.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its not just us, its human nature...watch the news, its all about

death and grief and sorrow and murder…Its interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry.

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not claiming it is any personal or unique failing of Royals fans

It’s just an emotional reaction to years of losing. Because of that, many fans overreact emotionally to every loss and sweep. They have more of a negative emotional reaction to losses than the positive emotional reaction to wins. That’s why you see a flurry of bitching after losses and a very modest amount of celebrating after wins.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think also

When a team is ten games under .500, wins just don’t seem that great. I mean, even if the Royals win today, so what? They’re still ten games under .500. That’s not that great. Unless and until we get on a hot streak, there really isn’t a whole lot to get excited about. This team isn’t making big strides in improvement – they seem to be stagnating, at least at the MLB level.

Plus, we tend to overstate negative concepts sometimes – its human nature.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By the same token
When a team is ten games under .500, wins just don’t seem that great. I mean, even if the Royals win today, so what? They’re still ten games under .500. That’s not that great.

And if you lose, you’re 11 games under .500. Is that much worse?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its a cumulation

Of the season’s frustrations.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sure that's true

and that of past seasons. And yet people still try to pretend (even in this thread) that there isn’t more negative reaction to losses than positive reaction to wins.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We are, by nature, fixers. We tend to think we are smarter/better than the

incumbant, so we voice our opinions. When there is nothing to fix, we remain silent…er

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's more that

we can celebrate alone, but bitching at ourselves in failure is too much to cope with.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The fans of this team are particularly morbid (or perhaps morose)

We love to hammer away at this team much more than we enjoy celebrating its positives. We have for a long time. I don’t really get why people enjoy that. I just think they get angry at their favorite team for letting them down, so they lash out at them and like to do it among like minded people.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe it is better to release anger and frustration on

a blog, rather than kicking the dog or punching a door.

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not just us, though.

The Yankees or Red Sox can be 12 games out in front, and if one team sweeps the other, the losing fan’s teams can’t get to the medicine cabinet fast enough.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i checked a Red Sox thread once and there were

hardly any comments, there probably is some inverse proportionaliey regarding quality of team/no. of comments. NHZ, you are a Sox fan aren’t you? yet you spend your time wallowing with us. Can you explain??

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Many teams have big fansites (outside of SB Nation) which get a lot of in-game traffic

I know this is true of the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Chisox and many other teams. Lack of traffic on their SB Nation site isn’t a meaningful reflection of the team’s fanbase.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

I write “Spreadsheet Baseball” here when I find a particularly good topic that I feel we haven’t covered that extensively…the Royals are basically my second team now, and I don’t really care for the Red Sox blog all that much…I already get plenty of sox talk done with my friends.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i thought this series was pretty dismal,

but, I just looked at the Tampa Bay series and we were crunched like 23-6 in the first three games of that too. that’s the last one I remember feeling hopeless over.

I think NYRoyal is right, but we’re fans, and that is what fans do, they are emotional about something that is so insignificant (geez, I sound like my wife) that its hard to understand.

there’s a thing in psych called prospect theory, that basically says people in general undervalue gains and overvalue losses. Seems to me that is what is going on a lot. Lots of losing over the last 10 years doesn’t help. Telling yourself to be patient all the time is not nearly as cathartic as bitching about the manager, etc.

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To be fair, this was a truly epic disaster of a series.

After one game, we’d blown the run differential we’d accumulated against the Tiggrrz over six wins. Then we got blown out two more times, and let a career nobody take a perfect game into the seventh inning.

This wasn’t like a sweep where we lost three games by a combined 13-8.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And yet it doesn't just happen after truly epic disaster series

It is S.O.P. after most losses.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I know.

I’m just saying that today is probably not the day you’re going to find converts to our side of this one. ;)

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For the record, I never look for converts

It would be like trying to change someone’s religious affiliation. There’s too much heart, emotion and identity tied up in it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know - we (as a community) get pretty giddy in sweeps

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exceptions which prove the rule

The existence of some exceptional occurrences do not negate the overwhelming desire to wallow in losses. Will, how many post-loss threads have you created and how many post-win? What do you think the ratio is, 10:1?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was me

and like NYRoyal, I find myself to be one of the few who is mostly positive, even during the losing. I think I’ve made a few fanposts this year and 2 have been positive and 1 semi-negative. Even in the negative one, though, I tried to spin it positively at the end.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 23, 2008 11:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I also think there are several of us

who may sound negative at times, but are actually just engaging in gallows humor.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if we get bitter

thank goodness we can concentrate on guns and religion
or become a nation in mental recession and begin whining

oh, it’s going to be a great campaign season

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:07 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The post-loss hyperbole threads are our guns and religion

And we cling to them desperately.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If only that were true

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Remember when we owned the Tigers?

That was awesome. We’ll always have those memories.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Funny how meta this has gotten

Guess the Royals are too boring to talk about anymore.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least it is no more boring than

The Royals suck. This is the worst team ever. 100 losses here we come. This team will be set to contend by 2020, 2 GMs and 3 managers from now.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I missed the fanposts that wrote that

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All you have to do is click and read

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't see em

I must be looking in the wrong place.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or you choose not to see them or pass right over them

You don’t see the negative hyperbole in gamethreads? You don’t see the incessant negativity?

The team has been losing for years and losses now meet with overwhelming negativity which doesn’t even come close to matching the positivity after wins.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess we all have to complain about something

I complain about incessant emotional negativity. You complain about me. Everybody’s happy. :)

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Complaint

who the hell do you think you are, T.E. Lawrence??

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My point

Big reactions with lots of posts after a loss. Small reactions with few posts after a win. We prefer to wallow in losses much more than celebrate victories. Is focusing on pain and negativity human nature, while enjoying and celebrating good things somehow less human?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's an interesting hypothesis

...but I don’t buy it. I think people like experiencing happiness with others as much as they like suffering with others. In fact, I think most human beings do their suffering alone and internally. That’s what gives rise to dysfunctional depression.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When we win

we can walk around and be happy. Sure, we can celebrate with others, but we don’t feel a NEED to, unless the victory is glorious (like a playoff win or something).

When we lose… we want comfort. We want to commiserate. That is why there’s more of a reaction to a loss than a win.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A good point

I’ll bet people are more likely to leave when we win.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah, but why would one NEED to celebrate alone, but NEED to bitch with others?

Clearly Royals fans like bitching more than celebrating or making positive comments, but I don’t think that is because of an inherent human desire to share suffering while keeping happiness to themselves.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess that would be why

we immediately throw parties when we find out a baby’s on the way, but we seclude ourselves when someone dies.

Oh, wait, it’s almost the exact opposite.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you...pregnant?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NO

I just had some bad tuna.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you trying to hide

good news from us?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's savoring his happiness

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know this for a fact?

Of course you don’t. This is all about opinion on both sides. And people keep negative stuff and bad feelings to themselves all the time. That’s why therapists and anti-depressant manufactures make so much money.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Certainly

but it’s hardly an indisputable fact that they’ll share positive emotions more often, right? I mean, looking at this as an emotionless stathead, how do you generalize that argument?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We don't throw parties when a baby is on the way?

What is a baby shower? And when someone finds out they are pregnant (and happy about it…and they feel they are past the miscarriage threshold), does one keep that news to one’s self, or does one share it with all of one’s friends and loved ones?

And when people are sad or depressed, do they usually share that with others or keep it to themselves?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You missed the word "immediately."

The point is, there are a lot of positive feelings that we like to savor in solitude for awhile. If I have a great date, I’m not going to pick up the phone and start calling my friends to tell them about it. I might discuss it the next day or something, but right there in that moment, I just want to bask in it.

Meanwhile, if my mother died, I’d be on the phone non-stop, looking for some semblance of comfort.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What morse is saying

is that he does an Esteban German bat flip after a good date, which doesn’t require any help. When things go badly, he calls his friends to watch Laguna Beach. And you need help to get through that show.

Amiright?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Because "immediately" is irrelevant

Do you know why funerals traditionally are always done immediately? Because for a long time you couldn’t really afford to keep the body around for obvious reasons. So funerals happen quickly. For a baby shower or a wedding shower, you have some time to plan an event and have it months in the future.

But when one finds out one is pregnant or engaged, one shares that happy news with others…immediately (of course some wait on the pregnancy news to make sure they get past the 3-month threshold).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not talking about funerals.

I’m talking about the immediate phone calls to figuratively cry on someone’s shoulder.

And you are wrong; women do not share the news of their pregnancy with everyone. They simply do not. They wait, until they feel like sharing it.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I've told you why they wait

People do not hesitate to share happy news unless there is some special reason to keep it to one’s self.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The last time I got a new job

I hardly told anyone until they asked. It wasn’t any deliberate thing; I just didn’t have a compulsion to go run and tell everyone “Hey, look at my good fortune!”

When I got laid off, I let everyone know immediately. Again, it wasn’t any deliberate thing; I just needed people to talk to.

You’re wrong, wrong, wrong.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you're experiences are atypical for human beings

Most people would quickly share the good news and keep the bad news to themselves for as long as is practical. THAT is human nature.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would explain why

in my inner-circle blogosphere, whenever someone experiences a split, they post about it immediately, while when they start on a new relationship, we find out as a result of an off-hand reference which presupposes we already know about it.

That would explain why nobody posts about their raises, but they post about losing their jobs.

That would explain why the sports fans in my inner circle post ranting about their teams’ poor performances, but don’t post when their teams win.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

jon does have a point here

not to keep bringing this back up, but, as a recent example, if my date had gone well I doubt I would’ve said much about it. Instead, I’m absolutely insufferable about it right now.

Whereas…since I started writing for this blog, I’ve had multiple relationships and never mentioned anything.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't care if you don't believe me.

I’m just applying my own personal example to what jon’s talking about. I think he’s got a real point here.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a lot easier to share the emotionless content that you had a bad date

...than to share the more emotional content that you had a great date (particularly for a man).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You think having a bad date is emotionless?

Well, therein lies the problem, methinks…

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A failed first date usually has less emotional content

Bad first dates aren’t really heartbreaking.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, duh.

But it’s hardly an emotionless experience. Something like that is always a bit of a rollercoaster.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay,

well all we’re talking about is one date in the history of humankind between two people, but within those limits…

It certainly could have been, but keep in mind what basically happened in this particular case is that everything went good, good, good and then I got hit by a cannonball towards the end. That kind of emotional ping-ponging isn’t something I can say “yeah, you’re right” about in re: to whether it going well would’ve been emotional.

But if what you’re saying is that I’d have been more willing to be emotional around my date if things had gone well, then yes. Instead, all the negativity comes out later. It’s quite difficult to quantify.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes,

but this is hardly the only time in human history this has occured. You don’t think people don’t spend more time actively thinking “oh, what might have been” than, say, celebrating a good time? I’d say that there are definitely cases where the negative experience sticks better than the positive.

And, emotionless? Come now, Thumper’s mother was right.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I meant I don't believe

you’ve had multiple relationships. :)

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well,

not at the same time. :P But I certainly have. I’ll wager you have, too. I wasn’t trying to brag, just trying to jump in the argument.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gak

Dude, in all seriousness it’s not very polite to make assumptions about personal matters. I guess you’re joking, but those are pretty lame jokes.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 7:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in all seriousness!

It was a joke man!

lighten up. you read fjm right? you’re a blogger, yes?

sorry man, I don’t post here very often, so you’re unlikely to know my sense of humor.

I was making NO assumptions about your personal life. I was joking about how its a universal ‘law’ that bloggers are social misfits who live in their mother’s basements.

again, sorry the joke didn’t come across.

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 24, 2008 12:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No worries, mate.

It is true, that if it were someone that posted more frequently, I would’ve taken it lightly immediately.

Don’t worry about it, just joke with me more often and I’ll get it next time. :)

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 24, 2008 12:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First, these are just anecdotal examples and I have as many anecdotal examples that go in exactly the opposite direction

Second, I think these are poor examples.

1. You let people know about splits because they are clear, finite endings. A new relationship is always a question mark. You don’t know if you are starting a serious relationship or just dating. Also, if you are friends with both people, then the person needs to let you know that they’re not together anymore for practical, logistical reasons.

2. People don’t post about their raises because no one wants to be the guy who says, “Look how successful I am and how much money I make.” That guy would be an asshole.

3. Your “human nature” argument still doesn’t hold water.

This isn’t about that it is human nature to share the bad and not the good. That just isn’t an accurate reflection of what humans do. This is about fans being pissed at their team because of years of losing. So they have to lash out. They are all upset so they want to bash their team out of anger. And the happiness from winning just isn’t as big as their anger at losing.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And--

How often do you see a woman find out she’s pregnant and try and keep it a secret for awhile?

Like, all the time?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is a reason they keep it secret

And it isn’t so they can savor in solitude. Miscarriages happen usually in the first 3 months. That is why many couples wait 3 months to tell people because you don’t want to have to go back and tell them that she isn’t pregnant anymore. You see, people would rather share the happy news of pregnancy than the unhappy news of a miscarriage.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're flat-out wrong about this.

Sorry. You may as well be trying to convince me the sky is green and the sea is yellow.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not nearly as bizarre as your insistence

that people share good news more readily than bad, when I know for a fact this is not the case.

I mean, on our little Starship Enterprise here, YOU’RE Spock, remember. Kirk and I are more in tune with human nature!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can't we please be

an actually good show? Such as Deadwood or Firefly or something?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm a Doctor, dammit!

not a grief counselor

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Look, I let you be William Shatner.

What more do you want from me?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well,

put like that…fine. I’m rich!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know this for a fact?

Of course you don’t. This is all about opinion on both sides. And people keep negative stuff and bad feelings to themselves all the time. That’s why therapists and anti-depressant manufactures make so much money.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, uh...

most people don’t go to therapists and take drugs because their team is losing, either.

Your team performing poorly is something it’s “okay” to complain about, especially in a group setting where people actually give a damn about your team to begin with. There’s no “block” to complaining here, no psychological opposition to baring one’s emotions. It’s generally not okay to be a whining bitch about Becky from Accounting turning you down, but it’s perfectly okay to be pissed off about Guillen going 0-4.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

most people don’t go to therapists and take drugs because their team is losing, either.

Yeah, they do it because of internalized negative feelings (at least that is usually a significant part of it). And this is a big part of human nature. Not sharing that stuff.
Your team performing poorly is something it’s "okay" to complain about, especially in a group setting where people actually give a damn about your team to begin with. There’s no "block" to complaining here, no psychological opposition to baring one’s emotions. It’s generally not okay to be a whining bitch about Becky from Accounting turning you down, but it’s perfectly okay to be pissed off about Guillen going 0-4.

And none of this means that it is human nature to keep happiness to yourself and share negative things with others.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Alright

I probably used bad examples, because I was trying to make a point. My last comment touches on things better, though. Yes, there are “good” things we want to share with people, and “bad” things we want to suffer in silence. But those things are, by their nature, deeply personal things.

The fate of a baseball team, on the other hand, is not. I have a very, very close friend who lives in San Francisco and is a lifelong Phoenix Suns fan. He has never once sent me an IM to tell me the Suns have done something good. He often sends me IMs bitching about the Suns when they do something bad. I have another friend who plays a lot of online poker. He never sends me an IM to tell me about the great poker hand he just played; he often sends me an IM to bitch about the bad beat he just took. I’ve never had a female friend IM me to tell me they got a new puppy; I often have them IM me and tell me that their cat is sick.

You’re trying to tell me that my experiences are “abnormal” because they are apparently different than yours, and I gotta tell you I take issue with that.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have no concrete

idea when it comes to this issue, as I don’t think there are any generalizable rules that can be applied to all people about their emotional tendencies…which is part of what makes my chosen future profession so damned wishy-washy sometimes. It seems like you both have had vastly different experiences in regard to this stuff and I highly doubt there’s anyone “right” or “wrong” on this.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You may have a point.

We should go back and look at the post-winning recap threads and see who tends to post there while avoiding post-losing recaps, and vice versa.

I think we will find that there are both people who wish to share happiness, and people who need a shoulder to cry on.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that data

will probably be very noisy, just look at this thread.

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think there's anywhere else we can go with this

Lots of anecdotal information and differing views on human nature and social psychology. I think we’re at an impasse.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The sad part is

I was just offering you a reason (and one which I think even you have to acknowledge is indisputably true for some segment of the population). There are people who like to share their misery, and are less inclined to share their joy.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There are all kinds of people who behave in all kinds of ways

But we disagree on what kind of behaviors in this area predominate or make up the norm.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First, these are just anecdotal and I have as many anecdotal examples which go in exactly the other direction

Second, I think these are poor examples.

1. You let people know about splits because they are clear, finite endings. A new relationship is always a question mark. You don’t know if you are starting a serious relationship or just dating. Also, if you are friends with both people, then the person needs to let you know that they’re not together anymore for practical, logistical reasons.

2. People don’t post about their raises because no one wants to be the guy who says, “Look how successful I am and how much money I make.” That guy would be an asshole.

3. Your “human nature” argument still doesn’t hold water.

This isn’t about that it is human nature to share the bad and not the good. That just isn’t an accurate reflection of what humans do. This is about fans being pissed at their team because of years of losing. So they have to lash out. They are all upset so they want to bash their team out of anger. And the happiness from winning just isn’t as big as their anger at losing.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you really think people post about a break-up

for “practical, logistical reasons”, you need to read more break-up posts.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's just one part of it

My point with that single sentence is that if you usually hang out with somebody with your significant other, then you want people to know so that they aren’t inviting you both over. You don’t want to have to deal with those awkward social situations in the future, so you just let people know. That’s just one piece of the puzzle.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wait, aren't my side arguments with NY

ALWAYS interesting?

Answer carefully, sir!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And often about psychology for some reason

At least we’ve gone beyond sports psychology to more generalized social psychology.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yay,

it’s my major!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very theraputic, I'm hyped for tonights game

game’s over? VERY theraputic!

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

c'mon, that last sentence is bs

you cannot, cannot say that from observing comments and post-loss threads.

your hyperbole when complaining about Royals fans complaining is now exceeding the original complaining!

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What last sentence?

Before I argue with you, can you tell me which sentence you’re referring to? Because of the formatting, I can’t tell which post you are replying to.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe we prefer to celebrate in the company of good

friends, we are all basically anonymous strangers.

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now, I wouldn't say that.

We’re not strangers here, mostly. We may not know one another in meatspace, but we “know” one another pretty well for the most part.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry, can i get a cyber-hug?

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have 2 eyes just like her

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that may be right

there could be an interaction effect too. With a losing franchise, people are used to commiserating over the losing, and the winning (consistently) is so few and far between they don’t feel compelled to really celebrate with others. I don’t spend much time on other teams boards, but are Red Sox fans likely to do a lot of posting after glorious sweeps, and less after bad losses?

More to NYRoyal’s point, there wouldn’t be so much overreaction to a string of bad losses (and I think he’s right that everyone moans too much) if the team didn’t have such a record of losing. Think about it, its hard to say ‘we’ll never win!’ and the like when you just made the playoffs a few years ago.

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think you can claim that we prefer to wallow in losses

We may react more to losses, but I think most people on this site would prefer to wallow in many, many more wins!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

plus, the number of posts after losses would probably be

half if you didn’t post so many times about all the incessant negativity. zing!

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Zing indeed

Well crafted.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And your point is???

That’s what fans of “Strrrruggggeling” teams (thank you, again, Joe Namath) do. Nothing Earth-shattering about it. Here in Detroit, where the Lions are enjoying a Royalesque run of despair, the post game talk shows are jammed with callers after losses; not so much after the wins. Fans of teams that have been awful a long time are much less willing to believe that a win or two or ten might be the start of something big ‘cause they’ve been burned much too often. Hence, the lack of comparative giddiness after a win in relation to the deepening despair after (another) loss.

by roberth66 on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right, it's emotional and irrational

That’s my point. And I don’t know why fans of a team enjoy it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't call it enjoyment as much as

consoling.

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know

each game has a set of odds on a winner, and they aren’t affected by last year’s or the previous decade of losing. so, it is irrational to bemoan that a team will lose tomorrow because they always lose, etc.

its irrational to attribute losing to a ‘culture of losing’ beyond all the more substantive reasons that certain franchises don’t do much winning

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But it is

effected by the current group of players that is ran out on the field. If the FO isn’t creating a better product and stagnate to hope that the current players are getting better as opposed to getting different players from other organizations/lower levels then fans have really no other recourse but to complain and not go to games. And is not going to games really a punishment to owners, ticket sales are such a small part of the grand scheme of things in baseball. As long as the smaller orgs get the money from the big guys and have businesses buying suites, etc complaints are really all a fan can do.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 12:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Back from lfieguarding,

it rained. We cancelled the swim. No one died. I get to work with my “date” in two days. Can’t wait.

As to the Royals, as they say in “The Waterboy”...we suck again!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:23 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Congrats!

You’ve been death-free for what, three days now?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That depends

Are you counting the death of his date?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or the death of the date?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought you were referring to speculation of what NHZ might

have done to his date.

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Speculator

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't get me started - I'm bitter

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

badum tish

Have you ever seen the movie “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you remember the part

where they’re behind a rock, getting shot, and Cassidy says to Sundance,

“Kid, there’s something I gotta tell you. I never actually shot anyone before.”

And Sundance says:

“Helluva time to tell me, Butch.”

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you trying to tell me you were on a date

with an inexperienced person named “Butch”?

Or do I have it exactly backward…?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope

I’m trying to tell that at the end of the date, no one died. Instead, she told me she wasn’t ready to date anyone at the moment.

Helluva time to tell me. :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I liked my version better.

It at least had humor AND pathos, instead of just pathos. ;)

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Personally,

I’m rather proud of my Butch and Sundance reference. Ya know, if this person in question was having trouble getting over someone…she sure could’ve let me know earlier.

And I love that movie, by the way. One of my all-time favorites.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I liked the part where they jump into the river

I can’t swim.
Don’t worry, the fall will probably kill you.

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's a great part, too

I love how they begin screaming about five minutes before they actually jump.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe if you had taken your date to see Butch Cassidy

instead of the Dark Knight…

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think she saw the Watchmen trailer

and decided to hold out for Doctor Manhattan.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm going to headbutt you.

But seriously, Doctor Manhattan is a dipstick.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

butt header

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It would actually be

“headbutter” but you know what? Neither one is very polite. :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

corrector

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

stupidhead

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

douche bag

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oops, that was out of character

labeler

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

grumpy old man

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

touche - er

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

giver upper :)

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

guilty -

I went home for dinner – lamb kabobs
mmmmmmm-lamb

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 8:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know, but I thought it was a little

bit ruder that way.

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thinker

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can live with that label

you labeller

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 8:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If only

clearly it was the movie choice that screwed it up.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe when you started salivating

when the Bat-Cycle appeared on the screen?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah,

I think I’ll blame it all on Heath Ledger. He’s dead, he can’t fight back.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Actually Did

Take my first date to see “Butch Cassidy…...”. I couldn’t drive yet, so we were supposed to be picked up at the hamburger joint across the street from the theater; it closed permanently, like boarded up windows, in the interim between the time the date was made and the date. She was impressed, and we dated for a while longer after that.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:29 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I need to watch it again.

It’s been far too long, and it’s a classic.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's one that if they ever

dare to remake, I’ll probably go strangle the would-be director.

“The future’s all yours, you lousy bicycles!”

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I got certified in '06

I’ve got one hell of a track record.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is not the worst team ever

but I think alot of people on here are tired of the same old shit. Honestly how many free agents are we away from contending? I would say at least 3 above average player- corner outfielder, 1st base and at least one starting pitcher.

by gordonrules on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More Gordonism

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Those two are

obviously blind fans of Alex’s prospect status.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I'm sure they're scissoring away all day long

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On the brightside, I thought Greinke pitched well today.

The media will spin it as he sucked, but I saw some horrendous defense and a large lack of luck.

winning records follow good bullpens

by slayor on Jul 23, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and to think...

i thought this would be a good defensive team

hasn’t worked out that way

by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 5:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently you think everything on the Royals pretty much sucks and that the team won't be contending for a few years

That’s a pretty scathing article above. I think you should have completed the thought and said that the Royals should lose 100 games this year and not compete until 2013. That’s basically the logical conclusion of your screed.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

its been a disapointing year

perhaps mostly on irrational grounds, but at the moment, i’m pretty bummed about this team

dayton has done a good job cleaning up the trash and insuring a base level of competence that is higher than before… beyond that, i dont know

by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 6:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're really going to need

to use some of this pitching depth to leverage that into people who can actually swing the damn bat. We’re still pretty thin on the hitting side, whereas I really like our organizational pitching strength from top to bottom.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes, unfortunately

there is no depth

boston and toronto have pitching depth, the royals have six pieces moving forward (Greinke, Meche, Hoch, Soria, Ram-Ram and Rosa)

by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, but...

with guys like Cortes and Duffy and some of the new draftees, don’t you think we’ve got at least some pretty good trading chips? I could envision a scenario, pretty easily in fact, in a couple years where Meche-assuming he’s still around-is the only guy who isn’t home grown or in team control years in an above average rotation. I can’t say anything close to that about our offense.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No depth?

Prospects don’t count?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was basically my reaction.

I think that the prospects we have on that side of the ball are pretty impressive.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Depth" includes prospects almost by definition

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bear in mind

“Prospects” “fail”; see “Gordon, Alex,” who is of course the biggest draft bust in history.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right up there

with Van Poppel!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i am being intentionally a little hard on alex

he’s just not broken out, and may never, which is embittering

by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 6:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It could be worse.

We could be the Yankees, whose A++ pitchers apparently can’t hack it.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mr. Hughes

we’re looking at you.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 7:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Plate Discipline + Power. My chief complaint with the FO is their love of speed. This isn’t the 80’s get some power in the org. While Moose/Hosmer will project as power players most of the other signees/draft picks lack that tool. I understand players develop that later in their careers but it is scary the lack of power at the A/A+/AA levels. Last in SLG in A+ and AA and bottom half of the league in A and bottom third of the league in all Rookie ball divisions. The only team in the Royals affiliation that is in the top of any slg level is Omaha which as we have all talked about is full of AAAA hacks.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 12:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We are 45-57

After 102 games last year we were…..45-57. Progress?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To quote Midnight Oil

Some say that’s progress, I say it’s cruel

by Gopherballs on Jul 23, 2008 6:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HEY

Do not slander Midnight Oil.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How Can We

Dance when our beds are burnin’?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hear much support for the monarchy

I see the Union Jack remains

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 2:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After 102 games in 1992, the Royals were . . . 45-57

Some people laugh, some never learn
This land must change or land must burn

by Gopherballs on Jul 23, 2008 7:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but

we had an actual manager in 1992. ;)

by BHWick on Jul 23, 2008 7:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, it's all about managers

Unless we’re talking about winning and losing

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 7:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok

can we fire Hillman yet?

by BHWick on Jul 23, 2008 6:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BILLY GARDNER NOW!!!!

OR MIKE FERRARO!!!!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, no, no.

We should fire Hillman and replace him with someone, anyone. And then fire that guy after half a season too. Then next year we can get all upset about the unimportant manager and fire and replace one every month.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

please, not replaced with Buddy Bell though...

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 8:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SWEENEY NOW!

For manager!

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jul 23, 2008 10:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gload for manager

anything to get him out of the lineup

by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 10:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Only Two Words

Player/Manager; he could bat cleanup every night.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TPJ for player/manager

he can play every day and then close for us as well. 3 in 1 deal!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

I couldn’t agree more. This is my first post, so hello to everyone.

by Royal Tenenbaum on Jul 24, 2008 12:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did You Read

This whole fucking thread? If so, you’ll fit right in here; babble on.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome

I love your first post btw, agreeing with me and all ;)

by I need more Esteban on Jul 24, 2008 9:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Love the name

Although I have mixed feelings about the movie. Some good stuff, but it left me unsatisfied. Not Wes Anderson’s most complete work.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 9:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very good summation

of where we’re at. If Butler and Gordon don’t pan out (I really hope they do but by no means am I optimistic) then that puts us even further away. Sometimes I think that the damage done by the Baird/Glass regime was too great and that we may not break out of this cycle for one or two more GMs, at least.

One man with courage makes a majority - Andrew Jackson

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 24, 2008 10:51 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that's what has bemused me so much over the course of this season.

Look, my 75th percentile projection for this team in 2008 was 81-81. That is, I saw the potential for a .500 season, and recognized that if everything broke right, we could do even better, perhaps even contend.

But the reality is, this was a 72-75 win team coming into the season, and they’re still a 72-75 win team now. Anyone who’s pissed off that .500 is a lost cause for 2008 at this point is either:

a) still feeling like the season-opening sweep and the ridiculous pitching lines in April mean more than what we knew in March;
b) the sort of person who also gets pissed off when their lotto numbers don’t get drawn; or
c) an idiot who seriously expected this team to contend in March to begin with.

And I just want to make sure everyone understands something important: almost one of the WORST things that could happen to this team would have been to go 84-76 this season. That sort of a “great leap forward” is what killed us in 2003. It made us think all the wrong things were right with the organization. I would much rather see a steady show of progress (which admittedly, as we’re on pace for last season’s record, is not happening right this moment, although we do need to remember that to a great extent last year’s team collapsed down the stretch).

75 wins will still be a successful 2008. Everyone needs to try and remember that.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 2:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can't believe I am saying this but Split made a good point during the Seattle Series

A big downfall in this team currently and the last couple years was letting Ibanez get away. While it wouldn’t have led to a huge win difference the Gonzo-Ibanez switch has to be ranked now as one of the worst moves this organization has ever made.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 3:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Split actually makes a lot of good points

He’s not some reactionary clown like Joe Morgan, and I thought earlier in the season he made some very good points about Quality Starts which Ryan torpedoed by subtly turning it into a “real men pitch nine innings” argument. Split’s original point had nothing to do with that; he was arguing that you could have a quality start every time out and still be throwing up a 4.50 ERA, which it’s exactly impressive—more like “average.”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 4:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

Wow, I mean the stuff about my date was really, really boring. i’m bored of it. Well done. :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 24, 2008 2:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No offense,

I’m sure it wasn’t boring to those passionate debaters among you.

I, on the other hand, read the post and the number of replies, and thought “wow, there is a lot of discussion about the Tigers series”.

Turns out – not so much.

by loyal2sdad on Jul 24, 2008 5:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ahahaha

I took no offense.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 25, 2008 12:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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