Bitterness
Tigers 33, Royals 6.
But hey, they denied Armando Galarraga his perfecto. I credit Hillman's leadership, especially that "put away the chairs" thing he did in Spring Training. Oh, and league average superstar Jose Guillen's feisty attitude. He won't let this bunch accept failure.
Even with four garbage time runs in the first game of the series -- aka the Jimmy Gobble/Penacutioner game -- the Royals couldn't muster enough runs cumulatively to win a single game against the Tigers, a mediocre team with a first place lineup and a fourth place pitching staff.
Perhaps this is life as a .450 ballclub: a mix of the semi-good, like taking two of three from the White Sox and the wholly-bad in a proportion that doesn't quite cancel itself out. For this observer, its been a frustrating and embittering season despite the miniscule uptick in the team's composite performance. (At 45-57 the Royals are actually dead even with last season's record through 102 games.) Somehow, the particular takeaways from this season to date just don't inspire much enthusiasm going forward: the Royals are 32-52 against the American League and unfortunately, no more games against the Senior Circuit are scheduled. Oh wait, Trey's planning for a 180 game season. My bad. The Royals are slated to play the National League Champions this October. And Games 1 & 2 will be at the K.
But it really isn't about wins and losses this season, and just about everyone has known that from the beginning. No, what was needed was some sign that the core of the franchise was rounding into shape and that said core would be competitive for the next two or three seasons. That hasn't happened. Essentially, the positive developments this season have been DeJesus's career campaign, Greinke's emergence as a solid #2 (39th in VORP, before today) and... I suppose the fun we've had with Mike Aviles. (Soria was last year's news.)
The pitching staff that looked so good in April has slowly decayed to pieces. The Royals are 13th in the AL in ERA and 12th in SLG allowed. Hochevar remains not quite there and Gil Meche remains Gil Meche. Brian Bannister has struggled mightily in the face of some weird, 80's movie-esque body swap with Kyle Davies. The bullpen has had its moments, but after three months of attrition has become sufficiently Peralta-fied. Of course, it's also being asked to pitch four innings a night, so it's understandable that meltdowns and poor matchups have occurred.
Offensively, whereas we were initially afraid that Dayton Moore might have an OBP blindspot, we might now have to worry about his inability to acquire batting average and slugging as well. Ross Gload and Joey Gathright have been given 532 PAs, and have fifteen extra base hits to show for it. Mark Teahen has evoked memories of Terrence Long, and beloved aspiring DH of the future Miguel Olivo has been brutal for two months.
Most painfully, supposed can't miss prospects Alex Gordon and Billy Butler have mostly missed, while nightly we see highlights of Tim Lincecum, Evan Longoria, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun and the like. Why can't the Royals ever have that guy? Hell, why can't we have someone like Jody Gerut? I'd much rather be 35-67, but with Gordon and Butler dominating the league than what we've seen so far.
And now the precocious Rays, like a more successful sibling, come calling, inviting all sorts of uncomfortable comparisons. Sure, Gordon and Butler can still breakout, much less improve. Sure, the starting rotation looks good going forward. Sure, DeJesus and Guillen give us a fighting chance to have a good outfield. All of that being said, there's been a lot more disappointment than satisfaction this season, creating a sense that, our guys just don't quite pan out like people on other teams.
Seriously, I don't know how this team has 45 wins, other than interleague play and some good timing regarding certain hit streaks and the cumulative good pitching of April. Non-building blocks like Grudz and Mahay have been valuable, and Jose Guillen's insanely hot June was just what the doctor ordered at the time, and makes his overall numbers less productive looking then they have been.
The Royals have one elite player, one guy who is perhaps the best at his position in the league, in Joakim Soria. Sadly, he's a specialist who plays less than half the time. Beyond that it's a more valuable -- though less viscerally thrilling -- Zack Greinke, maybe five guys who are safely "good players" and a roster that doesn't quite suck as much as it did in the past.
Where are we having that parade again, Dayton?
3 recs |
239 comments
|
Comments
Have you ever wondered why we (as a community) tend to micro-analyze and wallow in losses and getting swept, but not so much wins or sweeps?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we micro-analyze every game
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course we don't
How many post-game or post-series there are there after won games or sweeps by the Royals? Maybe a dozen. Take out the ones that I’ve created and you’ve got a handful. Compare that to how many tooth-gnashing threads there are post-loss. For some odd reason, we prefer to whine about losses than celebrate wins.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I haven’t found that to be the case. It just seems that way because there are more losses.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the stats
If you go back and look at how many post-game threads have been created after wins and after losses, it isn’t even close, and it isn’t at all proportional to the team’s actual wins and losses. There is always more complaining on this site than anything positive. And, for some odd reason, we prefer to bitch about losses a lot more than celebrate wins. By a large margin.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just old school baseball conventional wisdom
Do you have any metrics to back it up?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm working on it very hard
I’ve got 4 different spreadsheets crunching the relevant numbers right now.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not just us, its human nature...watch the news, its all about
death and grief and sorrow and murder…Its interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not claiming it is any personal or unique failing of Royals fans
It’s just an emotional reaction to years of losing. Because of that, many fans overreact emotionally to every loss and sweep. They have more of a negative emotional reaction to losses than the positive emotional reaction to wins. That’s why you see a flurry of bitching after losses and a very modest amount of celebrating after wins.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think also
When a team is ten games under .500, wins just don’t seem that great. I mean, even if the Royals win today, so what? They’re still ten games under .500. That’s not that great. Unless and until we get on a hot streak, there really isn’t a whole lot to get excited about. This team isn’t making big strides in improvement – they seem to be stagnating, at least at the MLB level.
Plus, we tend to overstate negative concepts sometimes – its human nature.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the same token
When a team is ten games under .500, wins just don’t seem that great. I mean, even if the Royals win today, so what? They’re still ten games under .500. That’s not that great.
And if you lose, you’re 11 games under .500. Is that much worse?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its a cumulation
Of the season’s frustrations.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure that's true
and that of past seasons. And yet people still try to pretend (even in this thread) that there isn’t more negative reaction to losses than positive reaction to wins.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are, by nature, fixers. We tend to think we are smarter/better than the
incumbant, so we voice our opinions. When there is nothing to fix, we remain silent…er
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's more that
we can celebrate alone, but bitching at ourselves in failure is too much to cope with.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fans of this team are particularly morbid (or perhaps morose)
We love to hammer away at this team much more than we enjoy celebrating its positives. We have for a long time. I don’t really get why people enjoy that. I just think they get angry at their favorite team for letting them down, so they lash out at them and like to do it among like minded people.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe it is better to release anger and frustration on
a blog, rather than kicking the dog or punching a door.
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just us, though.
The Yankees or Red Sox can be 12 games out in front, and if one team sweeps the other, the losing fan’s teams can’t get to the medicine cabinet fast enough.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i checked a Red Sox thread once and there were
hardly any comments, there probably is some inverse proportionaliey regarding quality of team/no. of comments. NHZ, you are a Sox fan aren’t you? yet you spend your time wallowing with us. Can you explain??
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many teams have big fansites (outside of SB Nation) which get a lot of in-game traffic
I know this is true of the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Chisox and many other teams. Lack of traffic on their SB Nation site isn’t a meaningful reflection of the team’s fanbase.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I write “Spreadsheet Baseball” here when I find a particularly good topic that I feel we haven’t covered that extensively…the Royals are basically my second team now, and I don’t really care for the Red Sox blog all that much…I already get plenty of sox talk done with my friends.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought this series was pretty dismal,
but, I just looked at the Tampa Bay series and we were crunched like 23-6 in the first three games of that too. that’s the last one I remember feeling hopeless over.
I think NYRoyal is right, but we’re fans, and that is what fans do, they are emotional about something that is so insignificant (geez, I sound like my wife) that its hard to understand.
there’s a thing in psych called prospect theory, that basically says people in general undervalue gains and overvalue losses. Seems to me that is what is going on a lot. Lots of losing over the last 10 years doesn’t help. Telling yourself to be patient all the time is not nearly as cathartic as bitching about the manager, etc.
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, this was a truly epic disaster of a series.
After one game, we’d blown the run differential we’d accumulated against the Tiggrrz over six wins. Then we got blown out two more times, and let a career nobody take a perfect game into the seventh inning.
This wasn’t like a sweep where we lost three games by a combined 13-8.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet it doesn't just happen after truly epic disaster series
It is S.O.P. after most losses.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know.
I’m just saying that today is probably not the day you’re going to find converts to our side of this one. ;)
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, I never look for converts
It would be like trying to change someone’s religious affiliation. There’s too much heart, emotion and identity tied up in it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know - we (as a community) get pretty giddy in sweeps
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yea... didn't someone post a "Can the Royals Make it Interesting" fanpost around the ASB
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exceptions which prove the rule
The existence of some exceptional occurrences do not negate the overwhelming desire to wallow in losses. Will, how many post-loss threads have you created and how many post-win? What do you think the ratio is, 10:1?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was me
and like NYRoyal, I find myself to be one of the few who is mostly positive, even during the losing. I think I’ve made a few fanposts this year and 2 have been positive and 1 semi-negative. Even in the negative one, though, I tried to spin it positively at the end.
by I need more Esteban on Jul 23, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think there are several of us
who may sound negative at times, but are actually just engaging in gallows humor.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we get bitter
thank goodness we can concentrate on guns and religion
or become a nation in mental recession and begin whining
oh, it’s going to be a great campaign season
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The post-loss hyperbole threads are our guns and religion
And we cling to them desperately.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it seems that way
Because on your crusade to show all of us we are overreacting you tend to ignore the happy posts we make.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If only that were true
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when we owned the Tigers?
That was awesome. We’ll always have those memories.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny how meta this has gotten
Guess the Royals are too boring to talk about anymore.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least it is no more boring than
The Royals suck. This is the worst team ever. 100 losses here we come. This team will be set to contend by 2020, 2 GMs and 3 managers from now.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed the fanposts that wrote that
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All you have to do is click and read
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't see em
I must be looking in the wrong place.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or you choose not to see them or pass right over them
You don’t see the negative hyperbole in gamethreads? You don’t see the incessant negativity?
The team has been losing for years and losses now meet with overwhelming negativity which doesn’t even come close to matching the positivity after wins.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you ever stop?
You’re so full of yourself. Don’t you ever get tired of wallowing in your superior fandom. It’s nauseating.
by djk royal on Jul 23, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I guess we all have to complain about something
I complain about incessant emotional negativity. You complain about me. Everybody’s happy. :)
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I do feel better now that you mention it.
by djk royal on Jul 23, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, it's cathartic
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now this is an overreaction
negative hyperbole? incessant negativity? people get upset when stuff goes wrong. its emotional. i don’t tend to do it myself, but that doesn’t mean I don’t feel it and have to remind myself that its just one game, etc.
you see more negativity because the team loses more than it wins. its been a while since i’ve really been in a game thread (I’m a radio listener), but from what I’ve seen people get pretty excited when things go right too. Just not many things going right very often. Plus,
1) you’re arguing with the wrong people here, the game thread folks that are really negative are not in this thread mostly,
2) i think you’re conflating the comments about Gload not being an everyday player, Gathright sucking, etc. with negativity, when that’s just people lamenting the truth about our team, the one we care so deeply about.
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
My point
Big reactions with lots of posts after a loss. Small reactions with few posts after a win. We prefer to wallow in losses much more than celebrate victories. Is focusing on pain and negativity human nature, while enjoying and celebrating good things somehow less human?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe suffering is communal, while satisfaction/happiness is
individual?
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an interesting hypothesis
...but I don’t buy it. I think people like experiencing happiness with others as much as they like suffering with others. In fact, I think most human beings do their suffering alone and internally. That’s what gives rise to dysfunctional depression.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When we win
we can walk around and be happy. Sure, we can celebrate with others, but we don’t feel a NEED to, unless the victory is glorious (like a playoff win or something).
When we lose… we want comfort. We want to commiserate. That is why there’s more of a reaction to a loss than a win.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good point
I’ll bet people are more likely to leave when we win.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, but why would one NEED to celebrate alone, but NEED to bitch with others?
Clearly Royals fans like bitching more than celebrating or making positive comments, but I don’t think that is because of an inherent human desire to share suffering while keeping happiness to themselves.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would explain it for some posters, but perhaps not for most of them
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that would be why
we immediately throw parties when we find out a baby’s on the way, but we seclude ourselves when someone dies.
Oh, wait, it’s almost the exact opposite.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you...pregnant?
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO
I just had some bad tuna.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you trying to hide
good news from us?
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's savoring his happiness
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know this for a fact?
Of course you don’t. This is all about opinion on both sides. And people keep negative stuff and bad feelings to themselves all the time. That’s why therapists and anti-depressant manufactures make so much money.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't throw parties when a baby is on the way?
What is a baby shower? And when someone finds out they are pregnant (and happy about it…and they feel they are past the miscarriage threshold), does one keep that news to one’s self, or does one share it with all of one’s friends and loved ones?
And when people are sad or depressed, do they usually share that with others or keep it to themselves?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed the word "immediately."
The point is, there are a lot of positive feelings that we like to savor in solitude for awhile. If I have a great date, I’m not going to pick up the phone and start calling my friends to tell them about it. I might discuss it the next day or something, but right there in that moment, I just want to bask in it.
Meanwhile, if my mother died, I’d be on the phone non-stop, looking for some semblance of comfort.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What morse is saying
is that he does an Esteban German bat flip after a good date, which doesn’t require any help. When things go badly, he calls his friends to watch Laguna Beach. And you need help to get through that show.
Amiright?
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because "immediately" is irrelevant
Do you know why funerals traditionally are always done immediately? Because for a long time you couldn’t really afford to keep the body around for obvious reasons. So funerals happen quickly. For a baby shower or a wedding shower, you have some time to plan an event and have it months in the future.
But when one finds out one is pregnant or engaged, one shares that happy news with others…immediately (of course some wait on the pregnancy news to make sure they get past the 3-month threshold).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not talking about funerals.
I’m talking about the immediate phone calls to figuratively cry on someone’s shoulder.
And you are wrong; women do not share the news of their pregnancy with everyone. They simply do not. They wait, until they feel like sharing it.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I've told you why they wait
People do not hesitate to share happy news unless there is some special reason to keep it to one’s self.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last time I got a new job
I hardly told anyone until they asked. It wasn’t any deliberate thing; I just didn’t have a compulsion to go run and tell everyone “Hey, look at my good fortune!”
When I got laid off, I let everyone know immediately. Again, it wasn’t any deliberate thing; I just needed people to talk to.
You’re wrong, wrong, wrong.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're experiences are atypical for human beings
Most people would quickly share the good news and keep the bad news to themselves for as long as is practical. THAT is human nature.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would explain why
in my inner-circle blogosphere, whenever someone experiences a split, they post about it immediately, while when they start on a new relationship, we find out as a result of an off-hand reference which presupposes we already know about it.
That would explain why nobody posts about their raises, but they post about losing their jobs.
That would explain why the sports fans in my inner circle post ranting about their teams’ poor performances, but don’t post when their teams win.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jon does have a point here
not to keep bringing this back up, but, as a recent example, if my date had gone well I doubt I would’ve said much about it. Instead, I’m absolutely insufferable about it right now.
Whereas…since I started writing for this blog, I’ve had multiple relationships and never mentioned anything.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care if you don't believe me.
I’m just applying my own personal example to what jon’s talking about. I think he’s got a real point here.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a lot easier to share the emotionless content that you had a bad date
...than to share the more emotional content that you had a great date (particularly for a man).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think having a bad date is emotionless?
Well, therein lies the problem, methinks…
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A failed first date usually has less emotional content
Bad first dates aren’t really heartbreaking.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, duh.
But it’s hardly an emotionless experience. Something like that is always a bit of a rollercoaster.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you think it would have been more emotional if it were a good date?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay,
well all we’re talking about is one date in the history of humankind between two people, but within those limits…
It certainly could have been, but keep in mind what basically happened in this particular case is that everything went good, good, good and then I got hit by a cannonball towards the end. That kind of emotional ping-ponging isn’t something I can say “yeah, you’re right” about in re: to whether it going well would’ve been emotional.
But if what you’re saying is that I’d have been more willing to be emotional around my date if things had gone well, then yes. Instead, all the negativity comes out later. It’s quite difficult to quantify.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
but this is hardly the only time in human history this has occured. You don’t think people don’t spend more time actively thinking “oh, what might have been” than, say, celebrating a good time? I’d say that there are definitely cases where the negative experience sticks better than the positive.
And, emotionless? Come now, Thumper’s mother was right.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant I don't believe
you’ve had multiple relationships. :)
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
not at the same time. :P But I certainly have. I’ll wager you have, too. I wasn’t trying to brag, just trying to jump in the argument.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do they like your mom's basement?
jking
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gak
Dude, in all seriousness it’s not very polite to make assumptions about personal matters. I guess you’re joking, but those are pretty lame jokes.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in all seriousness!
It was a joke man!
lighten up. you read fjm right? you’re a blogger, yes?
sorry man, I don’t post here very often, so you’re unlikely to know my sense of humor.
I was making NO assumptions about your personal life. I was joking about how its a universal ‘law’ that bloggers are social misfits who live in their mother’s basements.
again, sorry the joke didn’t come across.
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 24, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No worries, mate.
It is true, that if it were someone that posted more frequently, I would’ve taken it lightly immediately.
Don’t worry about it, just joke with me more often and I’ll get it next time. :)
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 24, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, these are just anecdotal examples and I have as many anecdotal examples that go in exactly the opposite direction
Second, I think these are poor examples.
1. You let people know about splits because they are clear, finite endings. A new relationship is always a question mark. You don’t know if you are starting a serious relationship or just dating. Also, if you are friends with both people, then the person needs to let you know that they’re not together anymore for practical, logistical reasons.
2. People don’t post about their raises because no one wants to be the guy who says, “Look how successful I am and how much money I make.” That guy would be an asshole.
3. Your “human nature” argument still doesn’t hold water.
This isn’t about that it is human nature to share the bad and not the good. That just isn’t an accurate reflection of what humans do. This is about fans being pissed at their team because of years of losing. So they have to lash out. They are all upset so they want to bash their team out of anger. And the happiness from winning just isn’t as big as their anger at losing.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And--
How often do you see a woman find out she’s pregnant and try and keep it a secret for awhile?
Like, all the time?
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a reason they keep it secret
And it isn’t so they can savor in solitude. Miscarriages happen usually in the first 3 months. That is why many couples wait 3 months to tell people because you don’t want to have to go back and tell them that she isn’t pregnant anymore. You see, people would rather share the happy news of pregnancy than the unhappy news of a miscarriage.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're flat-out wrong about this.
Sorry. You may as well be trying to convince me the sky is green and the sea is yellow.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think women are just happy to keep the pregnancy secret to themselves because they like to savor their own good news and not share it for a while?
That is a bizarre and counter-intuitive theory.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not nearly as bizarre as your insistence
that people share good news more readily than bad, when I know for a fact this is not the case.
I mean, on our little Starship Enterprise here, YOU’RE Spock, remember. Kirk and I are more in tune with human nature!
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't we please be
an actually good show? Such as Deadwood or Firefly or something?
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Doctor, dammit!
not a grief counselor
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, I let you be William Shatner.
What more do you want from me?
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know this for a fact?
Of course you don’t. This is all about opinion on both sides. And people keep negative stuff and bad feelings to themselves all the time. That’s why therapists and anti-depressant manufactures make so much money.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, uh...
most people don’t go to therapists and take drugs because their team is losing, either.
Your team performing poorly is something it’s “okay” to complain about, especially in a group setting where people actually give a damn about your team to begin with. There’s no “block” to complaining here, no psychological opposition to baring one’s emotions. It’s generally not okay to be a whining bitch about Becky from Accounting turning you down, but it’s perfectly okay to be pissed off about Guillen going 0-4.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
most people don’t go to therapists and take drugs because their team is losing, either.
Yeah, they do it because of internalized negative feelings (at least that is usually a significant part of it). And this is a big part of human nature. Not sharing that stuff.
Your team performing poorly is something it’s "okay" to complain about, especially in a group setting where people actually give a damn about your team to begin with. There’s no "block" to complaining here, no psychological opposition to baring one’s emotions. It’s generally not okay to be a whining bitch about Becky from Accounting turning you down, but it’s perfectly okay to be pissed off about Guillen going 0-4.
And none of this means that it is human nature to keep happiness to yourself and share negative things with others.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright
I probably used bad examples, because I was trying to make a point. My last comment touches on things better, though. Yes, there are “good” things we want to share with people, and “bad” things we want to suffer in silence. But those things are, by their nature, deeply personal things.
The fate of a baseball team, on the other hand, is not. I have a very, very close friend who lives in San Francisco and is a lifelong Phoenix Suns fan. He has never once sent me an IM to tell me the Suns have done something good. He often sends me IMs bitching about the Suns when they do something bad. I have another friend who plays a lot of online poker. He never sends me an IM to tell me about the great poker hand he just played; he often sends me an IM to bitch about the bad beat he just took. I’ve never had a female friend IM me to tell me they got a new puppy; I often have them IM me and tell me that their cat is sick.
You’re trying to tell me that my experiences are “abnormal” because they are apparently different than yours, and I gotta tell you I take issue with that.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no concrete
idea when it comes to this issue, as I don’t think there are any generalizable rules that can be applied to all people about their emotional tendencies…which is part of what makes my chosen future profession so damned wishy-washy sometimes. It seems like you both have had vastly different experiences in regard to this stuff and I highly doubt there’s anyone “right” or “wrong” on this.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may have a point.
We should go back and look at the post-winning recap threads and see who tends to post there while avoiding post-losing recaps, and vice versa.
I think we will find that there are both people who wish to share happiness, and people who need a shoulder to cry on.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there's anywhere else we can go with this
Lots of anecdotal information and differing views on human nature and social psychology. I think we’re at an impasse.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad part is
I was just offering you a reason (and one which I think even you have to acknowledge is indisputably true for some segment of the population). There are people who like to share their misery, and are less inclined to share their joy.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are all kinds of people who behave in all kinds of ways
But we disagree on what kind of behaviors in this area predominate or make up the norm.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, these are just anecdotal and I have as many anecdotal examples which go in exactly the other direction
Second, I think these are poor examples.
1. You let people know about splits because they are clear, finite endings. A new relationship is always a question mark. You don’t know if you are starting a serious relationship or just dating. Also, if you are friends with both people, then the person needs to let you know that they’re not together anymore for practical, logistical reasons.
2. People don’t post about their raises because no one wants to be the guy who says, “Look how successful I am and how much money I make.” That guy would be an asshole.
3. Your “human nature” argument still doesn’t hold water.
This isn’t about that it is human nature to share the bad and not the good. That just isn’t an accurate reflection of what humans do. This is about fans being pissed at their team because of years of losing. So they have to lash out. They are all upset so they want to bash their team out of anger. And the happiness from winning just isn’t as big as their anger at losing.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you really think people post about a break-up
for “practical, logistical reasons”, you need to read more break-up posts.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just one part of it
My point with that single sentence is that if you usually hang out with somebody with your significant other, then you want people to know so that they aren’t inviting you both over. You don’t want to have to deal with those awkward social situations in the future, so you just let people know. That’s just one piece of the puzzle.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, this has become a really interesting side-argument
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, aren't my side arguments with NY
ALWAYS interesting?
Answer carefully, sir!
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And often about psychology for some reason
At least we’ve gone beyond sports psychology to more generalized social psychology.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very theraputic, I'm hyped for tonights game
game’s over? VERY theraputic!
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon, that last sentence is bs
you cannot, cannot say that from observing comments and post-loss threads.
your hyperbole when complaining about Royals fans complaining is now exceeding the original complaining!
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What last sentence?
Before I argue with you, can you tell me which sentence you’re referring to? Because of the formatting, I can’t tell which post you are replying to.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we prefer to celebrate in the company of good
friends, we are all basically anonymous strangers.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, I wouldn't say that.
We’re not strangers here, mostly. We may not know one another in meatspace, but we “know” one another pretty well for the most part.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, can i get a cyber-hug?
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you look like Jenna Fischer.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have 2 eyes just like her
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that may be right
there could be an interaction effect too. With a losing franchise, people are used to commiserating over the losing, and the winning (consistently) is so few and far between they don’t feel compelled to really celebrate with others. I don’t spend much time on other teams boards, but are Red Sox fans likely to do a lot of posting after glorious sweeps, and less after bad losses?
More to NYRoyal’s point, there wouldn’t be so much overreaction to a string of bad losses (and I think he’s right that everyone moans too much) if the team didn’t have such a record of losing. Think about it, its hard to say ‘we’ll never win!’ and the like when you just made the playoffs a few years ago.
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can claim that we prefer to wallow in losses
We may react more to losses, but I think most people on this site would prefer to wallow in many, many more wins!
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus, the number of posts after losses would probably be
half if you didn’t post so many times about all the incessant negativity. zing!
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zing indeed
Well crafted.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And your point is???
That’s what fans of “Strrrruggggeling” teams (thank you, again, Joe Namath) do. Nothing Earth-shattering about it. Here in Detroit, where the Lions are enjoying a Royalesque run of despair, the post game talk shows are jammed with callers after losses; not so much after the wins. Fans of teams that have been awful a long time are much less willing to believe that a win or two or ten might be the start of something big ‘cause they’ve been burned much too often. Hence, the lack of comparative giddiness after a win in relation to the deepening despair after (another) loss.
by roberth66 on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, it's emotional and irrational
That’s my point. And I don’t know why fans of a team enjoy it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call it enjoyment as much as
consoling.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 23, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's certainly emotional
But how is it irrational?
by roberth66 on Jul 23, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
each game has a set of odds on a winner, and they aren’t affected by last year’s or the previous decade of losing. so, it is irrational to bemoan that a team will lose tomorrow because they always lose, etc.
its irrational to attribute losing to a ‘culture of losing’ beyond all the more substantive reasons that certain franchises don’t do much winning
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it is
effected by the current group of players that is ran out on the field. If the FO isn’t creating a better product and stagnate to hope that the current players are getting better as opposed to getting different players from other organizations/lower levels then fans have really no other recourse but to complain and not go to games. And is not going to games really a punishment to owners, ticket sales are such a small part of the grand scheme of things in baseball. As long as the smaller orgs get the money from the big guys and have businesses buying suites, etc complaints are really all a fan can do.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, these are the substantive reasons I was referring to
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 24, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back from lfieguarding,
it rained. We cancelled the swim. No one died. I get to work with my “date” in two days. Can’t wait.
As to the Royals, as they say in “The Waterboy”...we suck again!
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Congrats!
You’ve been death-free for what, three days now?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That depends
Are you counting the death of his date?
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or the death of the date?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(That's actually what I was getting at.)
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you were referring to speculation of what NHZ might
have done to his date.
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speculator
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't get me started - I'm bitter
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
badum tish
Have you ever seen the movie “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”?
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not since I was like 12.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you remember the part
where they’re behind a rock, getting shot, and Cassidy says to Sundance,
“Kid, there’s something I gotta tell you. I never actually shot anyone before.”
And Sundance says:
“Helluva time to tell me, Butch.”
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you trying to tell me you were on a date
with an inexperienced person named “Butch”?
Or do I have it exactly backward…?
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I’m trying to tell that at the end of the date, no one died. Instead, she told me she wasn’t ready to date anyone at the moment.
Helluva time to tell me. :P
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked my version better.
It at least had humor AND pathos, instead of just pathos. ;)
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally,
I’m rather proud of my Butch and Sundance reference. Ya know, if this person in question was having trouble getting over someone…she sure could’ve let me know earlier.
And I love that movie, by the way. One of my all-time favorites.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked the part where they jump into the river
I can’t swim.
Don’t worry, the fall will probably kill you.
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great part, too
I love how they begin screaming about five minutes before they actually jump.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe if you had taken your date to see Butch Cassidy
instead of the Dark Knight…
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think she saw the Watchmen trailer
and decided to hold out for Doctor Manhattan.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to headbutt you.
But seriously, Doctor Manhattan is a dipstick.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
butt header
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would actually be
“headbutter” but you know what? Neither one is very polite. :P
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
corrector
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stupidhead
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
douche bag
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops, that was out of character
labeler
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
grumpy old man
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
touche - er
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
giver upper :)
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, but I thought it was a little
bit ruder that way.
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thinker
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can live with that label
you labeller
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If only
clearly it was the movie choice that screwed it up.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe when you started salivating
when the Bat-Cycle appeared on the screen?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah,
I think I’ll blame it all on Heath Ledger. He’s dead, he can’t fight back.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braff is the voice of our generation now
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, who?
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Actually Did
Take my first date to see “Butch Cassidy…...”. I couldn’t drive yet, so we were supposed to be picked up at the hamburger joint across the street from the theater; it closed permanently, like boarded up windows, in the interim between the time the date was made and the date. She was impressed, and we dated for a while longer after that.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I need to watch it again.
It’s been far too long, and it’s a classic.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's one that if they ever
dare to remake, I’ll probably go strangle the would-be director.
“The future’s all yours, you lousy bicycles!”
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got certified in '06
I’ve got one hell of a track record.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not the worst team ever
but I think alot of people on here are tired of the same old shit. Honestly how many free agents are we away from contending? I would say at least 3 above average player- corner outfielder, 1st base and at least one starting pitcher.
by gordonrules on Jul 23, 2008 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oops, meant to reply to gordonrules, rookie mistake
Royals Win!
by gordonfan on Jul 23, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More Gordonism
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those two are
obviously blind fans of Alex’s prospect status.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm sure they're scissoring away all day long
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant the "rookie mistake" part. :p
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the brightside, I thought Greinke pitched well today.
The media will spin it as he sucked, but I saw some horrendous defense and a large lack of luck.
winning records follow good bullpens
by slayor on Jul 23, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and to think...
i thought this would be a good defensive team
hasn’t worked out that way
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially considering the guys who are supposed to suck
don’t.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently you think everything on the Royals pretty much sucks and that the team won't be contending for a few years
That’s a pretty scathing article above. I think you should have completed the thought and said that the Royals should lose 100 games this year and not compete until 2013. That’s basically the logical conclusion of your screed.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strawmen abound!
I don’t see anyone saying the Royals will lose 100 and the team will not compete until 2013, yet you keep stating it.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It's not a strawman. As I said, I believe it is the logical conclusion to his somewhat over-the-top argumentation in the above article
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No strawmen here. As I said, I'm just saying what I think the logical conclusion to this over-the-to screed is
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its been a disapointing year
perhaps mostly on irrational grounds, but at the moment, i’m pretty bummed about this team
dayton has done a good job cleaning up the trash and insuring a base level of competence that is higher than before… beyond that, i dont know
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're really going to need
to use some of this pitching depth to leverage that into people who can actually swing the damn bat. We’re still pretty thin on the hitting side, whereas I really like our organizational pitching strength from top to bottom.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, unfortunately
there is no depth
boston and toronto have pitching depth, the royals have six pieces moving forward (Greinke, Meche, Hoch, Soria, Ram-Ram and Rosa)
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but...
with guys like Cortes and Duffy and some of the new draftees, don’t you think we’ve got at least some pretty good trading chips? I could envision a scenario, pretty easily in fact, in a couple years where Meche-assuming he’s still around-is the only guy who isn’t home grown or in team control years in an above average rotation. I can’t say anything close to that about our offense.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No depth?
Prospects don’t count?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was basically my reaction.
I think that the prospects we have on that side of the ball are pretty impressive.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Depth" includes prospects almost by definition
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bear in mind
“Prospects” “fail”; see “Gordon, Alex,” who is of course the biggest draft bust in history.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right up there
with Van Poppel!
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am being intentionally a little hard on alex
he’s just not broken out, and may never, which is embittering
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be worse.
We could be the Yankees, whose A++ pitchers apparently can’t hack it.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Hughes
we’re looking at you.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 23, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Plate Discipline + Power. My chief complaint with the FO is their love of speed. This isn’t the 80’s get some power in the org. While Moose/Hosmer will project as power players most of the other signees/draft picks lack that tool. I understand players develop that later in their careers but it is scary the lack of power at the A/A+/AA levels. Last in SLG in A+ and AA and bottom half of the league in A and bottom third of the league in all Rookie ball divisions. The only team in the Royals affiliation that is in the top of any slg level is Omaha which as we have all talked about is full of AAAA hacks.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are 45-57
After 102 games last year we were…..45-57. Progress?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2008 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To quote Midnight Oil
Some say that’s progress, I say it’s cruel
by Gopherballs on Jul 23, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who in the hell quotes midnight oil?
what is this, 1992?
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Jul 23, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HEY
Do not slander Midnight Oil.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Can We
Dance when our beds are burnin’?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear much support for the monarchy
I see the Union Jack remains
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After 102 games in 1992, the Royals were . . . 45-57
Some people laugh, some never learn
This land must change or land must burn
by Gopherballs on Jul 23, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
we had an actual manager in 1992. ;)
by BHWick on Jul 23, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's all about managers
Unless we’re talking about winning and losing
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUDDY BELL NOW!!!!
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Jul 23, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BILLY GARDNER NOW!!!!
OR MIKE FERRARO!!!!
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 23, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, no.
We should fire Hillman and replace him with someone, anyone. And then fire that guy after half a season too. Then next year we can get all upset about the unimportant manager and fire and replace one every month.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
please, not replaced with Buddy Bell though...
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 23, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SWEENEY NOW!
For manager!
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Jul 23, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gload for manager
anything to get him out of the lineup
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only Two Words
Player/Manager; he could bat cleanup every night.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TPJ for player/manager
he can play every day and then close for us as well. 3 in 1 deal!
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it entirely possible
that our expectations as fans were a little too premature? What I mean is that we expected this thing to be turned around much quicker than was possible. We all know how bad our minor league system was when GMDM took over.
We can come up with players we are disappointed with like Gordon and Butler, but then we have to realize that, while they aren’t the Braun and Longoria’s of the world, there is still time for them to turn into good players. After 2 drafts, this thing is not that far along yet. Most of us would agree that the Royals can only contend by drafting great players and developing them in our system. Dayton Moore has not yet had the oppurtunity to show if he has drafted good/great players.
Like some, I had much higher expectations for this season. The hitting is hard to watch, and our pitchers are not throwing well at all right now. But I still have to realize that this is a marathon, it isn’t a sprint. To me, after Dayton’s first draft class has completed year 3 (maybe even 4, someone might know better the amount of years a good player is supposed to take to get through the system) then I think we can really see what we’ve got as a GM and organization, going forward.
by I need more Esteban on Jul 24, 2008 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
I couldn’t agree more. This is my first post, so hello to everyone.
by Royal Tenenbaum on Jul 24, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did You Read
This whole fucking thread? If so, you’ll fit right in here; babble on.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
I love your first post btw, agreeing with me and all ;)
by I need more Esteban on Jul 24, 2008 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love the name
Although I have mixed feelings about the movie. Some good stuff, but it left me unsatisfied. Not Wes Anderson’s most complete work.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good summation
of where we’re at. If Butler and Gordon don’t pan out (I really hope they do but by no means am I optimistic) then that puts us even further away. Sometimes I think that the damage done by the Baird/Glass regime was too great and that we may not break out of this cycle for one or two more GMs, at least.
One man with courage makes a majority - Andrew Jackson
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 24, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's what has bemused me so much over the course of this season.
Look, my 75th percentile projection for this team in 2008 was 81-81. That is, I saw the potential for a .500 season, and recognized that if everything broke right, we could do even better, perhaps even contend.
But the reality is, this was a 72-75 win team coming into the season, and they’re still a 72-75 win team now. Anyone who’s pissed off that .500 is a lost cause for 2008 at this point is either:
a) still feeling like the season-opening sweep and the ridiculous pitching lines in April mean more than what we knew in March;
b) the sort of person who also gets pissed off when their lotto numbers don’t get drawn; or
c) an idiot who seriously expected this team to contend in March to begin with.
And I just want to make sure everyone understands something important: almost one of the WORST things that could happen to this team would have been to go 84-76 this season. That sort of a “great leap forward” is what killed us in 2003. It made us think all the wrong things were right with the organization. I would much rather see a steady show of progress (which admittedly, as we’re on pace for last season’s record, is not happening right this moment, although we do need to remember that to a great extent last year’s team collapsed down the stretch).
75 wins will still be a successful 2008. Everyone needs to try and remember that.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe I am saying this but Split made a good point during the Seattle Series
A big downfall in this team currently and the last couple years was letting Ibanez get away. While it wouldn’t have led to a huge win difference the Gonzo-Ibanez switch has to be ranked now as one of the worst moves this organization has ever made.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Split actually makes a lot of good points
He’s not some reactionary clown like Joe Morgan, and I thought earlier in the season he made some very good points about Quality Starts which Ryan torpedoed by subtly turning it into a “real men pitch nine innings” argument. Split’s original point had nothing to do with that; he was arguing that you could have a quality start every time out and still be throwing up a 4.50 ERA, which it’s exactly impressive—more like “average.”
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe I trudged thru
this entire thread.
Geez.
by loyal2sdad on Jul 24, 2008 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Wow, I mean the stuff about my date was really, really boring. i’m bored of it. Well done. :P
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 24, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense,
I’m sure it wasn’t boring to those passionate debaters among you.
I, on the other hand, read the post and the number of replies, and thought “wow, there is a lot of discussion about the Tigers series”.
Turns out – not so much.
by loyal2sdad on Jul 24, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 














