Mitch Maier Just Wins Ballgames
by Freneau on Jul 24, 2008 10:58 PM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintParty on, Gil. Party on, Joakim.
- Salutations to Gil Meche on a second straight strong start, albeit a slightly Bannyrific one. Whatever works. It's terrific to see Gil getting stronger here, just as we approach the cusp of the dog days. Incidentally, the phrase "dog days" is a pretty old one, I noticed it in
Pope's Dunciad (1728). Actually, this is wrong, I got mixed up in my reading reflections for today, I saw the phrase in a short story by Sarah Orne Jewett, from 1893, I believe. Apologies. - I wonder what Meche's trade value is? Especially now that Harden and Sabathia are gone.
- Ross Gload. Another day, another nine innings of Gload.
- Who else was in tears watching J.P. Howell pitch? It all makes sense now. Joey had to be off-site with the Rays and Howell back in town. Too much pain. Pitching is the currency of baseball...
- Saw this on fangraphs.
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make sure something tells you that it is cold
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
jinx!!!!!!!
you owe me a beer of uncertain temperature
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
well, his value won't get much higher
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
I Thought You
Were responding to JM
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It's interesting that we keep saying that his value will never be higher every few months
It was said in May of last year. It was said in October of last year. It’s been said in July this year.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
it just keeps goin up!
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
it's like the price of oil
it’s never been higher than yesterday
oh – wait – now it’s never been higher
(repeat)
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
mitch maier = wins
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Buck just said Meche cut his hair off....
so he hopes his wife has the doors unlocked when he gets home.
Next up….Bannister gives Guillen a new haircut!
That MUST be the key to success!
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 PM EDT reply actions
Jason LaRue = Struck out to end the game
Milwaukee sweeps STL as the world’s greatest fans (per STL-based Sporting News) boo.
Surely I just heard that wrong on my tv!
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:03 PM EDT reply actions
I'm Weeping In
Joy.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
for the Royals win, or LaPoo striking out
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Both
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
our glass is truly more than half full
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
watching LaRussa's post-game press conferences is almost as fun as watching a Grienke interview
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't Tease Me
I can’t get it here.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
well i can give play-by-play.
for some reason Jack Clark is doing the post-game analysis now. He looks like he could be a pro-wrestler…......or a strip club owner…..possibly both.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
+1 to Joel Goldberg for having a wet shirt and still doing the post-game show....
you’re a trooper Joel!
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 PM EDT reply actions
Does his t-shirt
properly accentuate his assets? Is he in any danger of winning the contest?
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Let's talk about glove
Aviles had a Pena-like game out in the field, and I don’t mean a truly Pena-like game, but a “this is the perception people have of Pena”-like game.
Can we finally just shut up about him being a bad fielder or having no range? Really? ‘cause he made absolutely sick, stupid plays going to BOTH sides tonight.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
He had two great out of zone plays tonight
He gets full credit for that. Those two plays don’t make him an above average defensive SS (or even average in my opinion).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Also:
WHY ARE YOU BEING NEGATIVE
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
After the Royals have had so many losing seasons, I have a right to be knee-jerk negative all the time!!!!!!!!1111
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's just because
you had to watch him play college ball in NY and kept hearing how he was supposed to be the greatest player ever.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
In NY, they told me that he'd be a perennial Gold Glove winner
So he’s really be a complete failure.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He's Really Be
A sho mofo; yo.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Aviles oozes OOZ!
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
most definitely.
Other than those two mental mistakes, he hasn’t been the butcher that everyone labelled him to be.
Of course, the same can be said of Butler to an extent….but he hasn’t dazzled with the glove at times like Aviles.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Butler hasn't had a bad play in months.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It's On
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
All they need to do is sweep the next dozen series and they'll be right back into it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
sad thing is...
this coulda been the year
i think tigers/white sox/twins are gonne keep beating each other up
and none are great
with the indians likely to play better, it could be a bloodbath
Damn Gordon!
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks to Hinske, Gload gets two more weeks
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
Interesting Note....
Everyone in the lineup had a hit except for the #3 guys…...Grud/Guillen 0-7…with sac fly
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:17 PM EDT reply actions
Ryan Lefevbre, first inning:
“Guillen’s really feeling loose now, after ending his 0-14 last night, probably in position to break out…”
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
In Hives?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
in another tantrum?
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I just got him in a trade in my fantasy league,
so I”m sorry but he will play even worse, or get hurt and DL’ed
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Why do we keep talking about this trade Meche nonsense?
Let’s just “sell high” with all of our good players and re-build for 2013. Sound like a good idea? It’s not like Meche is old and way past his peak. Given his age, it looks like he’ll be helping this team win games throughout the entirety of his contract.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 PM EDT reply actions
i think it was a joke....but i could easily be wrong
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly, he was not.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
is dayton is really a badass at finding pitching
he needs to trade some of his guys to keep building the roster
sell high on meche, find the next meche, repeat
No GM bats 1.000
While Moore is good at finding pitchers, you don’t acquire a building block just so you can trade him and find another building block (hopefully).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeeeah
This reminds me of Whitey Herzog’s line about why he never played the “one hitter” game with his relievers:
Every time you change pitchers, you’re taking a chance on putting the guy out there who’s got nothing.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
And, the Royals can trade their pitching currency without trading Meche or Greinke
The depth is in the minors.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
who our are chits right now? (not being facetious... I am sketchy on MI knowledge)
Rosa and Cortes… and…
maybe. i don't like olives. i wouldn't know
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
what do you have in your martinis?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Chits
Including but not necessarily limited to
Rosa
Cortes
Wood
Pimentel
Mahay
Nunez
Ramirez
also
Teahen
etc.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Will was not making a joke. He's been looking to trade Meche for at least a year.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
But continually trading our best pitchers puts us in perpetual rebuilding mode with no end in sight
You really want to do that?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Like the A's?
That doesn’t seem so bad.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
They are not continually rebuilding
The build, compete, rebuild, compete, rebuild, etc.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
We are not competing
So we should be building. Sometimes that means trading valuable vets for young prospects.
I don’t think we should look to deal Meche, but we shouldn’t foreclose the possiblity.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You never foreclose the possibility of trading anyone at all, of course.
But some guys fall into the category of “worth more to us than to anyone else.” Meche and DDJ certainly fall into that category for us.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
We are rebuilding
But we’re not at the point in our rebuilding that we should be trading away our best players. That’s the earliest stage of rebuilding. We’re not there anymore. Trading away guys like Meche puts us considerably further away from contention.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Not if it gets us
Good prospects who are ready to contribute by 2010
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Chide me for being too negative, but I’m going to say we will not contend for a title in 2009.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we can.
If Aviles is anything near for real, and Gordon starts to get it together, and we don’t waste April and May figuring out which of our pitchers suck ass. Hell, if we’d started THIS season with Aviles and without a half-dozen gas cans in the pitching staff, we’d at least be around .500.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Prospects are always iffy
Most prospects fail. It’s a very risky strategy which likely puts us farther away from contention.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why
You ask for more than one.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And how many genuinely good prospects does one typically get in a package?
Uno. Trading a key building block on this team would build up the minor league system and probably add a year to the rebuilding period (one of the reasons is that rookies typically don’t show up and be good right away).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Just last week
The A’s got two for a pitcher worse than Meche.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with that comparison
is that the A’s trade guys who are done and cooked (everyone else), or they trade guys they can get half a team for (Haren).
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
their haul for Mulder is pretty impressive......
considering it was Haren who brought all those cats from the D-backs
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
he did win 20 games for STL (i think)
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
And then his arm fell off
and flopped around on the floor for a couple of hours before Jim Edmonds accidentally spiked it.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Scully Is A
Bust.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Where does Nick Swisher fall?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets not forget that the A's
also signed Evil Brown and Sore-back Sweeney…they are not the model of perfection to emulate.
Let's Go Blues!
by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm probably wrong here, but when was the last time we traded
our best pitcher(s)?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
you can't be wrong, that was a question.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
well, I put it poorly - I can't remember when we have traded our best pitcher
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Appier?
Cone in ‘95, but our hand was forced.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
We didn't in 2002
When we had Paul Byrd. And it may have cost us Orlando Hudson if you believe the rumors.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Appier may have been "our best pitcher"
when we traded him, but he was done.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
The Royals have only had a "best" pitcher for two years now
Before Meche the Royal’s “best” pitcher was Redman, and he could only rustle up a minor league contract to start the 2007 season.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
Mike Macdougal might well have been
our best pitcher when we traded him for Lumsden and Cortes.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
And, in case anyone is wondering, Meche is back to basically the same pitching level that he was at in 2007
After a slow start (first 6 starts), he’s been very good. And, his overall numbers (ERA and FIP) are that of a #2 SP.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:19 PM EDT reply actions
SHUT THIS BLOG DOWN RIGHT FUCKING NOW !!!
KC FANS DON’T CELEBRATE WINS-NYRoyal
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
Who is that?
It looks like the guy that played Tommy’s cop brother on “Rescue Me”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Cause-effect
Think this thread has anything to do with my complaining yesterday?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah
I like apples.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
not really NY there are blogs after most wins
I would say the cause and effect might be the run differential. This team seems to win Alot of close ones and lose alot of biggies. Easier to complain after bashings and maybe a little less enthusiastic after close wins.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
Afte rmost wins?
Of course there aren’t? There are post-game threads about the game after most wins? Are you saying that because you don’t know the truth or is it an intentional lie?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly
for a long time i wasnt doing post-game posts, win or lose
i’ve been trying to do more in the last few weeks, win or lose
but sometime it just depends on my personal life
I really feel shortchanged
Considering how much we pay for this site.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
And of course, that's not the point
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Point?
I have to have points with my jokes?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I inferred that you were making a point that since we don't pay anything for this site, we shouldn't complain or comment on the content
For the record, I’m critiquing the viewpoint, not the content, per se.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
No
It was just a joke.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I inferred incorrectly
mea culpa
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems marriage has already made you more froggy!
If that’s possible.
Let's Go Blues!
by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You do it much, much more often after losses
And that’s not a coincidence.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea Will
You are a Debbie Downer!!!!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
hater
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Yes, there are BOD's after wins
That is just a player of the game post. That’s completely different than the post-mortem threads.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you may have just hit on it
“post-mortem”
In all my years in the tech field, we never had a post-mortem meeting to discuss how awesomely well a situation was handled. You only call the post-mortem to discuss what went wrong and how to prevent it later.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I don't see how that example is relevant
That kind of post-mortem meeting is a practical necessity. We’re talking about chatting about a game after the fact. Talking about what happened, whether good, bad or indifferent. The same practical need for discussing mistakes simply isn’t there. We have an equal practical need for talking about the bad and the good (zero).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually applying it appropriately would be talking about cutting up a dead body
That doesn’t really go to the issue of why Royals fans love to talk incessantly about the horribleness of the team after a loss, but not so much after a win.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but after a couple of days
of you shitting on every possible explanation offered to you to explain the problem, I can’t even take the problem seriously anymore.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I guess he thinks
There is something inherent in following the Royals that makes one irrational and emotional that is exclusively infecting Royals fans, and no one else.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I have said many times that this is not unique to Royals fans
That doesn’t make it any better. My point is that we wallow in negativity and our analysis is usually clouded by that extreme negativity, particularly when the team is losing. It isn’t about honesty or even an attempt at objectivity. It’s about emotion.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're following a sports team
and expect the experience to be emotionless, well, you might want to get a new hobby…
I see lots of people trying to rationalize and justify their negativity
Is that supposed to change my mind. And none of us are experts in social psychology.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's entirely Royals fans....
at lunch with a group of teachers the conversation is much more likely to tell a negative story than a positive one.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree NY, maybe its the same reason that most of our (including your)
replies are in disagreement, rather than agreement.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that's different
but I see your point
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Different, yes, but its the same ball park,
kind of like foot massages and, well, if you’ve seen Pulp Fiction, you know.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on really and I'm not trying to start a huge argument here.
KC’s run differential is -81 (Worst in the AL) yet they have more wins this year than last and for the most part I believe they are a better team than last. When this team gets beat, it gets crushed. Anytime that happens fans are not gonna see the glimpse of light they are gonna see the black hole. IT’s NOT Crazy its just common. My question is do you read the KC star everyday, do you listen to 610/810am online? It’s hard not to be negative when a person is following this team on a daily basis. It would be easier to stay possitive if all you did was watch the game on TV and listen to Split/Ryan shove sunshine up your ass (Employees of the team) and look at boxscores and stats.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I meant to say following the team on a daily basis that way.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
I think you may have a point here.
I think most of the “positive” folks aren’t local.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I follow the team as closely as anyone on the planet
So one can follow the team closely and be realistic and fair about it, as opposed to emotionally overreacting.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I just wish people wouldn't pretend that they aren't being overly negative, emotional and overreacting
This is yet another example of the argument I have on this site all the time.
Poster: Blah, blah, negative, blah, blah, negative.
Me: that’s an emotional overreaction
Poster: No it isn’t. It’s objective truth.
Me. No, it’s emotion and overreaction.
Poster. No it isn’t!
Me: Yes it is
Poster: After years of Royals failures and having to watch them lose again and hearing about it all day around town, I have a right to be negative and emotionally overreact!
First they deny it, then they justify it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I realize that
But I consider the source. You can’t make everyone be rational and level-headed. It’s not possible. Not “it’s too much work” or “it just takes time,” but impossible.
So, really, all this is?
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I don't think I can fix anybody
I just make commentary on things I feel like commenting on. And if someone wants to argue with me about it, I’m usually game. I’m sure some (many) are tired of hearing about it. I’m tired of hearing unreasonable, irrational, negative crap about the Royals (the Royals are deserving of a lot of negative crap, but we Royals fans often go way over the top). But we don’t always get what we want, do we?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Commenting is fine.
Like when focs would go batshit and scream OMG DFA GORDON NOW HE SUUUUUUCKS HELL NEVER BE ANY GOOD and I’d just tell him to shut up.
But this rawhide bone thing you’ve got going on with it… I mean, hell, I was fine with this last night. It needed to be said, I guess, and you were spun up about it.
But that was last night. It’s something you should have gotten over by now. You’re emotional about this issue, and you don’t want to hear anything that opposes your viewpoint that people are just negative poopyheads because… well, you don’t know why, but by god nobody’s going to tell you why because they’re all wrong!
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
We're all wrong
And he’s right. That should tell us something.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I'm not entitled to my opinion
I’m really sorry for sharing my viewpoint.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Its okay
Just be careful next time.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll do my best
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Understand
for the most part, I do agree with Scott. There are people here who are entirely too negative and emotional and composed of a mass of stupid and unsupportable arguments, and I have crawled down their throats myself on numerous occasions.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
+1
I don’t really care if people speak there mind or not, but there is a hellll of a lot of negativity, ESPECIALLY during gamethreads. Last season I loved being in on gamethreads, but this year it’s becoming hard to even be in one because when anything goes wrong there are a select few who just bash and bash and bash the team for every little thing. Maybe my memory is clouded and it was the same last year but I don’t think so.
by I need more Esteban on Jul 25, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Last year, as I lurked
it seemed more like a… light-hearted negativity. It feels more serious and angsty this season.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I understand
And at times I too think fans get overly critical, but I think you are going about it the wrong way. Good message, poor messenger. You’re being abrasive and confrontational and being self-righteous and it has a way of making people defensive.
I don’t know what would be a right way to go about it, but in all the time you’ve been on this mission of yours, I don’t think you’ve really convinced anyone.
Plus you seem to offer precious little criticism, which is bewildering considering this is a team that lost 90+ games last year and is on pace to do the same this year. Maybe things are moving in the right direction, but its not like every move Dayton and Trey make are golden. They’re making quite a few missteps along the way, understandable I’m sure, but you’re inability to see many mistakes severly undercuts your credibility. You’re seen as a mouthpiece for the franchise, and your message gets lost.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that I really try to change people's minds. I just call a spade a spade.
I give my opinions. I say what I think is the truth. I’m not so egotistical that I think I can just share my opinion (whether confrontationally or sweetly) and people will just change their minds and agree with me. Like everyone, I just speak my mind.
Plus you seem to offer precious little criticism,
That is complete and total bullshit. I mean really, you couldn’t be more wrong. I don’t criticize Gload, Gathright and half of the bullpen (these are just some examples)? I don’t criticize Hillman? I don’t say that Moore has done half of a good job? That is unfair and completely untrue.
but its not like every move Dayton and Trey make are golden
And I have certainly not defended every move either of them has made. They have both made many bad moves.
, but you’re inability to see many mistakes severly undercuts your credibility
You want to write me off as a pollyanna, but that is just plain wrong. I don’t see many mistakes? You’re way, way off.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus, you hate Aviles
with the burning passion of a thousand stars, and you think I’m a doodyhead for trying to convince you he knows what a glove is.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I am not saying you don't follow the team closely.
Not everything I say in here is a emotional overreaction as you infer.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
No, not everything
But I don’t think you realize how much of what you say is emotional and/or an overreaction.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I did Overreact with the Aviles/Gordon debate
but you overreacted to my thought that Gordon needs some kind of help which he does.
This is yet another example of the argument I have on this site all the time.Poster: Blah, blah, negative, blah, blah, negative.
Me: that’s an emotional overreaction
Poster: No it isn’t. It’s objective truth.
Me. No, it’s emotion and overreaction.
Poster. No it isn’t!
Me: Yes it is
Poster: After years of Royals failures and having to watch them lose again and hearing about it all day around town, I have a right to be negative and emotionally overreact!First they deny it, then they justify it.
This is as emotional/irrational as anything anyone else writes. You really have a heir of superiority in here. Why can’t one be negative? Is everything just spoonfuls of sugar, you really haven’t been married long have you. jk
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
Plus I think its cuts both ways
I think many posters are guilty of being emotional and overly critical, but NYRoyal, you seem to be emotional and overly supportive of the franchise.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure you think I'm overly positive
But I think that’s because you’re overly negative. Who knows.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Like I said, this is a team that lost 90 games the last two seasons and is on pace to do the same this year. We have a farm system ranked by most every objective observer in the bottom half of the league. Are we doing some things right? Sure. Your only criticism seems to be that we signed Gload to a two year deal. That’s ridiculous for a franchise in this state.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Do I need to list my criticisms of Moore and Hillman to establish my bona fides with you?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Your defenses of this franchise
Far outnumber your criticisms. I don’t think any objective person would come to the same conclusion.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Has Moore done more things wrong than right since becoming GM?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
No. That's not what I said.
I said your defenses far outnumber your criticisms, and I do not think any objective person would agree.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
If there have been more good things done than bad things, then wouldn't it make sense for defenses to outnumber criticisms?
If a person defends a GM more than he criticizes him, does that make him a blind defender of the GM? Does that make his defenses unreasonable? What am I missing here?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
You're not reading my post
I am saying your defenses FAR outnumber your criticisms and that no objective person would agree.
You defend the moves of this franchise nearly all the time. Any move or non-move can be explained with “management must know something we don’t” the way Creationists explain away science saying “God did it.” Its a blind faith.
A more objective person would be far more critical than you have been.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
That's just plain wrong
You defend the moves of this franchise nearly all the time
That’s wrong.
Any move or non-move can be explained with "management must know something we don’t"
And that is even more wrong. When’s the last time I said anything like that? You pulled that out of your ass. The closest thing I have ever said to that is saying that Moore has a good track record on acquiring pitchers, so I trust him. I said that the fact that he’s done well means that we need to include that in our analysis of an acquisition.
A more objective person would be far more critical than you have been.
In the very least, I would disagree with the word “far” in that sentence. I think a lot of this is about the fact that you get pissed off at me whenever I criticize the negativity of Royals fans on this site. The more pissed off you get at me, the more withering your critique of my analysis.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Bitching
Me complaining about the ultra-negativity and knee-jerk emotional reactions could fairly be called “bitching.” But in the above posts, Retro and I have been talking about our analyses of various moves by this organization and our arguing for or against them. That is analysis.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
But I’m watching this argument from the sidelines and don’t understand why it is still happening.
(And yet, I can’t look away…)
Family squabble
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Retro has never shown any desire to scissor with me
:(
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
If you think I have some vendetta against you
You’re mistaken. I’ve told you several times we agree quite a bit, and probably have more in common than you’d think (for example, we’re both politically liberal attorneys)
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
There's got to be a term for this
and I’m moving this over to a left-ward thread before explaining further.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
jonf
If you’re implying that Retro and I are secretly in love with each other, then I’d say that there is a 62% chance that you’re dead wrong.
There ain’t no good guys. There ain’t no bad guys. There’s only him and me and we just disagree. [/song]
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I think from now on I'm going to work hard to point out to people when I'm critical of Moore and/or Hillman
I think it gets lost in the shuffle by people who have already decided that I blindly defend everything the organization does.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
You're misremembering
You say it all the time. You said it to defend the Brett Tomko signing. The Horacio Ramirez signing. The reason we didn’t put in a claim for Dan Johnson or Chris Shelton. Many times when you can’t find evidence supporting your argument, you turn to “well we’re just guessing,” or “management must know something ”, or “we don’t know what is in Player X’s head” or “we don’t know what is going on behind closed doors” or “no one else likes this guy, that should tell us something.”
I can’t really address your last point because I’m not really sure what you mean.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please find the quotes for me then
I have said that with Moore acquiring pitchers, one of the things we should include in our analysis is that if Moore and his people like them, that is something in the player’s favor. That should be a part of the picture. That shouldn’t be a part of the picture with position players, because he doesn’t have a good track record with them.
The reason we didn’t put in a claim for Dan Johnson or Chris Shelton.
For them, I didn’t say that Moore must know something we don’t. I said that if nobody claimed them, no MLB team, then that says something about them. It doesn’t mean they are necessarily worthless. But if 30 GM’s pass on a guy, that should be included in the analysis of that player.
Many times when you can’t find evidence supporting your argument, you turn to "well we’re just guessing," or "management must know something ", or "we don’t know what is in Player X’s head" or "we don’t know what is going on behind closed doors" or "no one else likes this guy, that should tell us something."
You’ve grouped a lot of very different things together. I talk about “we’re just guessing” when we’re talking about what WILL happen in the future. It’s really hard to guess what Moore, for instance will do this offseason. That is guessing. As far as sports psychology, I do often say that that is just guesswork on our parts. We can only guess what is going on their heads or how various things will affect them psychologically. I don’t talk about how “management must know something.” I don’t, period. I do say that when every team passes on a player, that should help inform our opinion of them. When every single GM passes on a player (the most traditional ones, the most progressive ones, the most sabermetric ones), we have to include that as one meaningful piece of information in evaluating the player.
I can’t really address your last point because I’m not really sure what you mean.
I’m saying that your argument that I am merely a blind defender of Moore, Hillman and the Royals organization is mostly about you being pissed off at me, so you feel like lashing out at me and marginalizing my analysis. You don’t like it when I point out the overly emotional crap from many Royals fans, so you go after me with this stuff sometimes when I talk about it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
You've marginalized your own analysis
I had nothing to do with it.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Clearly in your eyes any comment I make in defense of the organization is merely blinding defending the Royals
So my commentary is marginalized in your eyes. I guess we’ll agree to disagree. And you can ignore my blind defense of the Royals. And you’ll continue to see my criticisms of the Royals as crazed, inexplicable aberrations.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
For a long time I didn't
I disagreed with some of your analysis, agreed with others. But your constant approval of everything Dayton and criticism of all criticisms against him have made your agenda quite clear and have undercut any semblance of objectivity in your posts.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd suggest this doesn't make a lot of sense
I haven’t perceived Max as being Mister Negativity so much, so I don’t understand why you’d think his objections are a result of him being pissed off about your anti-negativity crusade?
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
He gets very pissed off when I talk about the negative emotional overreactions in gamethreads or post-game threads
He hates it and frequently lashes out at me for it with a, “you’re just as emotional and irrational on the positive” side argument.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
"lashes"
I’m sure that’s an unemotional, rational description of my posts.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
...you kinda… do, sometimes. And I often agree with it, so that’s not a criticism. I guess the ultimate question is, “Does it really matter?”
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Fair enough
I’m sure I’ve gotten heated from time to time. And I guess its true I don’t like it when NYRoyal goes after criticisms in this manner. It smacks of self-righteousness and hypocrisy.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
moore and his people
liked TPJ.
Don't Stop Believing!
I think it likely
that occasionally just saying, “Well, reasonable people can disagree on this” and letting it go might help. I think I’m the only person you ever get to that point with anymore, and it takes you about 50 comments to get there.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
true. i don't know much of the situation, but it seems it's more of the approach that rubs people.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 25, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
By now, everyone should know that I don't much care if I rub people the wrong way
I’m going to tell it like it is (as I see it), and that’s it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
That's fine
What we’re telling you is that your approach undermines your message.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure that's true
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Retro is not just saying that I argue too hard, too much or too often
Significantly, he’s also saying that I’m a constant defender of Moore and Hillman. That I don’t honestly and realistically evaluate the Royals or its management; I just defend everything. And that isn’t at all true. Not even close.
As far as argument style, I don’t care. I’ll keep a debate going. Often others will too. A long debate isn’t anyone person’s fault. It takes at least two to tango.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me be more direct, then:
There have been times when I have essentially said to you early in an argument, “reasonable people can disagree,” and your response has essentially been, “No, they can’t, and here’s why you’re still wrong.”
People try to extricate themselves from arguments with you, and you continue. People try to mediate, and you don’t allow it.
And I do apologize, but I was really disappointed with that “I guess I’m not allowed to have an opinion” thing, too. That’s one of the most famous passive-aggressive tactics in the entire history of the internet. It says that you equate dissension with censorship.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There have been times when I have essentially said to you early in an argument, "reasonable people can disagree," and your response has essentially been, "No, they can’t, and here’s why you’re still wrong."
You will say, “reasonable people can disagree,” and then you will go on to make an argument. Then I will respond to the argument (usually disagreeing). The fact that I disagree with you does not mean that I don’t believe that reasonable people can disagree on a subject. On 99.9% of the things I have debated on this site, I will readily agree that reasonable people can disagree about these things. That is what we are doing in the debate.
People try to extricate themselves from arguments with you, and you continue. People try to mediate, and you don’t allow it.
Actually, people usually try to extricate themselves from arguments with me by ceasing to argue. When people continue with the debate, that is not attempting to extricate themselves from the debate.
And I do apologize, but I was really disappointed with that "I guess I’m not allowed to have an opinion" thing, too. That’s one of the most famous passive-aggressive tactics in the entire history of the internet. It says that you equate dissension with censorship.
Being disappointed with that is fair. And it is passive aggressive. Not one of my finest moments. The reason I said it was because it was in response to a post which said, “We’re all wrong And he’s right. That should tell us something.” To me, that read as, “we all disagree with him, so he should stop arguing his point. If everyone disagrees with him, then his viewpoint isn’t valid.”
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I can see why you would come to that conclusion
That wasn’t my intent. I was pointing out that the fact that everyone disagrees with you illustrates that perhaps you are not making your point well at all.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps I am not
Or, perhaps I should say, “clearly I am not.”
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
What you are calling "arguing"
in that instance is more accurately termed “a closing comment whose intent is merely to illustrate that I am not demonstrably wrong, combined with a concession that you actually do have a valid point.”
You have, on numerous occasions, followed such a statement with the basic essence of “Okay, we can disagree, but I’m still more right than you,” which is… well, it’s irritating, is what it is.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I think I don't always see such a thing as "closing comment"
And also, I probably don’t much like closing comments which are, “we’ll agree to disagree, but I’ll reiterate my point of X, Y and Z.” I guess I don’t want to feel like someone gets to foreclose the debate merely by invoking “agree to disagree” while they continue to make their points. If I see debate-worthy content in a post, I’ll probably reply with my disagreement.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Since I've usually been acquitted, not so much
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
If you had said, "Gordon is struggling and needs some kind of help"
...then I would have agreed with you. Instead, you said silly things like that he isn’t clutch and that Matranga or Lisson would perform as well as him. You see the difference?
Why can’t one be negative?
People can be however they want to be. I just prefer honest, realistic analysis to emotional, negative overreactions. And I’m going to critique analysis which I think is poor.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
You read the post my 3 options weren’t call up Matranga/Lisson. All I said is I would expect any ball player to hit with the same stats Gordon was for the last month. That is any scrub that has put on a Minor league jersey at AA ball up to the ML .200 isn’t that unattainable. I never said any of those guys have the ability or are better than Gordon. You thought I did but you were wrong. I just don’t think the leave him alone approach works. I don’t have much faith in Barnett and if it is working with Brett, going to Omaha, or just gaining confidence by putting him in Win-Win situations KC needs to do that. The psychology of the game plays far more into it than you give it credit for because you can’t put a number on it. Confidence plays into clutch/The It being loose not tense it all counts.
I think you think because I was a Aviles supporter I want every scrub up from Omaha, which I don’t. I would rather Kila jumped Shealy if they are gonna make a move with Gload, I think Costa is a total scrub and besides Rosa and maybe Hughes (tonight 5.1 Ip 5H 4 BB 1 ER) there isn’t much pitching/hitting talent either.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
Without getting into the whole Gordon thing, I want to say one thing about psychology
The psychology of the game plays far more into it than you give it credit for because you can’t put a number on it. Confidence plays into clutch/The It being loose not tense it all counts.
As I have said many times, I believe that psychology is important to performance. Confidence and other psychological factors matter a lot. But here are some of the problems:
1. We have no idea what is going on in Gordon’s head. We can only guess. You and I have no idea where his confidence or anything else is right now.
2. We have no idea what sending him down would do for his psychology. Would it build up his confidence or tear it down? We have no idea.
My problem with fans saying X or Y should be done because of psychology is not because the psychological element is meaningless. It’s because we have no idea what is going on psychologically. We’re describing and prescribing from complete unknowns.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand your point there.
There is no known for Gordon. My point on Alex in particular is I don’t want him to turn in to Mark Teahen. Except for a stint that they sent him back down to Omaha which he responded from I think they have taken a hands off approach. Can I back that up for sure no I can’t but he has looked like the same hitter for his entire career except for that one stretch back fom Omaha. I don’t want that to happen to a player with Alex’s ability/talent.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
But c'mon
it was pretty out there to suggest that Matranga/Lisson could hit just as well as Gordon. You did say that.
by I need more Esteban on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its out there to consider they could hit as well
as Gordon long term. That is not what I was saying I suggested they could hit the way Gordon has the last 2 months. I would never compare Matranga or Lisson to Gordon long term. That would be totally idiotic.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
that is a good point
I listened to the pre-game on 810 last night and Soren was going off about blowing up the team. Trade Gordon, Butler, etc.
NY is right about the negativity, but its not as extreme as he perceives it to be. And let’s be clear, this is all about individual’s perceptions, no one has any claim to evidence about these conjectures.
As someone said yesterday, people are tired of the same old shit. So, when a series like Detroit happens, when we’re not even in the same ballpark for all three games, the emotions take over. We’ve had more than our fair share of series like that over the last decade.
Royals Win!
The Leftward Thread
There’s got to be a term for this: it has been my experience in communties where debate is encouraged (or, even, is the point of the exercise) that the most vicious debate comes between people who are in agreement 99% of the time. Another example would be that I suspect this year’s presidential campaign to pale in comparison to the ugliness of the Democratic primary season.
People don’t bother arguing with those who they perceive as being completely out in left field. They argue with people they think they can sway.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
That begs the question of what constitutes "left" and "right" in baseball terms
I do kind of liken progressive baseball thinking with progressive politics, but that might just be because I’m a lefty.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
No, no, NO.
Sabermetrics is right-wing, because it is soulless and sucks the humanity out of the game in favor of pure statistical meritocracy. The sabermetric mafia also consistently argue that it’s okay to not pay your workers well as long as you have them under your thumb, and then turn around and argue that you’re overpaying them once they’re free agents. They rail against the practice of building stadiums for teams, which is obviously a dirty communist action.
(I’m a moderate Republican, so I can get away with this sort of slander.)
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
C'mon,...
name one player who is not “being paid well”
Let's Go Blues!
by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
You gotta get out of New York,
it’s corrupting your mind. :(
Let's Go Blues!
by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmmm
I often argue with people I think are completely out in left field (stat ninja, kcsoliny, etc.). I also debate with people who I often agree with (you, NHZ, JQ, Retro, etc.). I’m an equal opportunity debater. Perhaps Retro and I get into to the degree that we do because we’re too much alike. I don’t know. He’s certainly not as confrontational as I am. But, as he has pointed, we’re alike in many ways. And we do often agree. Who knows. I know I’m tired of arguing about negativity, emotion, etc. Really. At least for the time being.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't clear.
When I said “most vicious debate”, I meant that the bitterness and duration of arguments between people who generally agree far outstrips that of people who have no hope of swaying one another’s opinions.
When you and I are really going at it, I actually get MAD sometimes, because goddamnit, you’re supposed to be able to at least see my point of view even if we may quibble on details. When I get into it with, say… no, let’s not name names, let’s just say “when I get into it with someone I actively dislike”... I’m Mister Smirky and don’t really care.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I view our debates and differences as similar to the royals
I’m Jose Guillen and you are Mark Teahen. I bust off the handle and you are Mark Teahen everything is gonna be okay
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
In all seriousness that was a great win and any trade of Meche
wouldn’t be good. Gil has looked great for a couple months now and if this Team is gonna contend in ‘10 he would have to be a part of the pitching staff. Zach “The Head”, Gil, Carlos Rosa, Hoch/Banni/Soria/Davies pick your poison
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
I don't see DDJ going anywhere.
He’s too good to trade for maybes, and not good enough to trade for sure things.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
We really can't do anything but guess at this point
I think Teahen should be shopped, not necessarily at the deadline, but in the offseason. We can’t afford to lose DeJesus in CF. Teahen wouldn’t replace him.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Ye of little faith
My crystal ball and Delorean (with flux capassiter) can help foretell the future.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt DDJ will go anywhere.....Teahen possible.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
And it probably won’t be for much. I think Teahen has run his course in KC. 2008 will be his last season in Royal blue.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Him To
The Yankees and he’ll go .300/.380/.550, 40 HR’s, 125 RBI’s and play GG RF.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
and he may learn to pull the ball in that ballpark.....
he should love Boston.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
How did Meier start out as catcher, I thought non-athletic
types were relegated to catcher??
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
Toledo coaches
Understand the defensive spectrum
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
that is a bit odd....but there are guys like Biggio and Joe Mauer too
Note: NOT saying Maier is in their company as a player.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
OT: Excessive Piling on STL Update....
I’m usually not a fan of standing a watching a HR….but both Bill Hall (Tues) and Ryan Braun (tonight) just stood and watched those homers drive a spike into the greatest fans’ hearts…...
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:35 PM EDT reply actions
I'd stand and watch a homer against STL too.
But I’d watch one against the Yankees a few seconds longer. Maybe long enough to get hit by a pitch before I ever left the batter’s box.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
who do you think you are - A-Rod?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Hell no
I know better than to sleep with skanky hos ten years older than me.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I'd Dive In
And take it for you if you did that.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. he was whining about the strike zone without coming out and saying it.
his post-game press conferences are hilarious.
how someone can be such a total jerk like that and still have respect from the media is a bit boggling.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't there once a time
when TLR really was a genius, and he really was worthy of respect?
It seems like aeons ago…
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
i believe there was something on BP once... maybe 5 years ago, to the effect of
“he has a law degree and occasionally wears glasses, inspiring many within the media to consider him a genius”
He used to be a stat guy
And everyone used to marvel at how he used stats.
Then Billy Beane came along, used stats properly, rejected orthodoxy, which pissed off Joe Morgan and his cabal of baseball men, and stats were a dirty word. TLR now denies that he uses stats that much instead saying he uses his “gut.”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
yea... matchup stats and L/R and... nothing else
i do appreciate that he thinks (somewhat) outside of the box, as in the pitcher hitting 8th thing
of course, i hazard to guess that the #2 hitter for the cards is still the “good bat handler” type which also seems pointless
i saw Pittsburgh was batting their pitcher 8th yesterday too
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Only a matter of time
Before we do. Hopefully in place of Gload.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
The Pirates have done this for several weeks
I was in Pittsburgh for the July 7 game with Houston (the game where Runelvys Hernandez was shelled) and Dumatrait batted eighth.
The callers on the postgame show that night did not care for this strategy.
i could be wrong, but i think there have been a bunch of times where
the cards used guys like chris duncan in the 2 hole…not exactly a bat handler type
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 25, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Billy Beane gets far too much credit
it is nice he broke down the barriers that has allowed many of the James disciples that deserve to get in the game involved. But I think now he has set a precedent that allows him to keep selling high and continuously rebuild the team year after year while continually keeping his payroll down. He is a part-owner now and this can also be in his best interest to build his bank account as well.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
I think they are building for a strong club whe their new mallpark opens
Beane is understood by his fans, which is huge
however, i still hear media people snipping at him constantly…
funny too… compare beloved Minnesota’s post-season record against the A’s… even though lack of fundametals and small ball was supposedly what killed oakland in the playoffs
Did you read TLR's comment on steroids?
We now know that a lot of his former players were long term juicers. A reporter asked him about this. His response was along these lines, “I still don’t believe those guys used steroids. No one has ever proven that McGuire used. I think they were clean. I don’t want to talk about this any more.”
I don’t think I would like TLR. I just can’t stand people who are full of shit, know they are full of shit, and yet pretend they are not full of shit.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
Oddly enough
I am reminded of Chuck Tanner.
“Gosh, I had no idea anything like that was going on in my clubhouse. Guys taking drugs? I don’t believe it.”
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Ryan Braun is a FREAK OF NATURE
The guy last night gets a bunt single, a triple and a Homer to the opposite field.
Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?
Mike Epstein
Must be proud.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Who's giddy?
I’m giddy!!!!!!!
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
I am......but some of it comes from watching the Cardinals lose too....
they get hour-long postgame shows to whine/complain/be the greatest post-game show ever.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, that makes it even better
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
did anyone else discover that nancy lieberman is fairly hot for a 50 yr old today?
she’s done well for herself
Fairly hot
For a female basketball player.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad I traded him in fantasy baseball.
Never hang on to a Cubs pitcher.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
the game was fun!
Who wants a pink hat, because I will never be caught dead wearing it. NHZ? Wildthang?
Listen to the MUSTN'Ts, child Listen to the DON'Ts Listen to the SHOULDN'Ts, The IMPOSSIBLEs, the WON'Ts Listen to the NEVER HAVEs Then listen close to me-- Anything can happen, child, ANYTHING can be --Shel Silverstein
by loyal2theroyals on Jul 25, 2008 1:05 AM EDT reply actions
i may be able to arrange this
I detest pink hats for teams that do not have red (or pink as it is) as a color. The one exception is for girls 5 and under. They’re still cute enough to wear the pink stuff and get away with it.
Listen to the MUSTN'Ts, child Listen to the DON'Ts Listen to the SHOULDN'Ts, The IMPOSSIBLEs, the WON'Ts Listen to the NEVER HAVEs Then listen close to me-- Anything can happen, child, ANYTHING can be --Shel Silverstein
by loyal2theroyals on Jul 25, 2008 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I have really disliked the trend of team paraphernalia in non-team colors
I see red, blue, green, plaid, etc. Yankee gear everyday. So much for the vaunted Yankee tradition.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I've seen it a lot in college/university wear as well
go into any bookstore on a campus and you can find shirts of virtually any color. It is fine in filling out a wardrobe, but doesn’t really show support of your team. Will, no pink RR shirts, please!
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
it is
If a girl wants to wear a girly form of her team color, she should wear powder blue or at most a blue-toned lavender.
Listen to the MUSTN'Ts, child Listen to the DON'Ts Listen to the SHOULDN'Ts, The IMPOSSIBLEs, the WON'Ts Listen to the NEVER HAVEs Then listen close to me-- Anything can happen, child, ANYTHING can be --Shel Silverstein
by loyal2theroyals on Jul 25, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't be an enabler.....BURN IT!!
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 25, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
is it Porcus who wants the pink hat?
come on, fess up
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
If I wore hats, I'd wear a pink one
But I must let my hair have the freedom it deserves.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
Hell yes!
I can give it to the next Ms. NHZ who doesn’t completely flake out on me.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
the "next"?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
flake causer
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
"flake attractor"?
“flake magnet”?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
but see,
this particular girl was a clear outlier on the flake scale.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
small sample size?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Oh, I do too. Team colors or no colors.
But if you don’t want the hassle, I can get one from someone at the stadium, no problem :-)
Maybe it is an existential joke
I mean who is Mitch Maier, really? Who are you? Who am I? What does it mean to say that we exist?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Camus would say that existence is inherently absurd
And how does one deal with an absurd life? Revolt. “The struggle itself…is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.” Perhaps this explains why Royal fans prefer discussing a loss to discussing a win. I’ve found my answer.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 3:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Weirdness
I just read this essay last month. I am assigning it in the fall. I read The Stranger long ago but it wasn’t untill reading the Myth of Sisyphus that I had any real handle on what Camus was driving at in The Stranger.
I don’t think Camus offers any insight into the stubborn pessimism of Royals fans. Maybe he does into their resignation that winning and losing just are not as important as having a team to love.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
wait... i know who mitch maier is...
HE’S THE SAVIOR! MITCH MAIER NOW!!!!
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Jul 25, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
You'd really trade Meche?
I don’t think that whoever you’d get back would be worth what Meche is to the club. All he’s done is throw 6.25 innings per start for his 56 starts with the Royals, last year at All-Star caliber, this year at a slightly lower level. He’s let the youngsters in the bullpen have a set role during his games, providing much more normalcy from them.
Like I’ve said before, I’m a Cards fan first, so if you don’t want Meche…we’ll take him. We could use something positive right now!
Yeah,
Poor redturds, I feel real bad for them….boo-hoo.
Let's Go Blues!
by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Back to the Meche trade idea
I’d certainly listen to offers for him, but I wouldn’t shop him around. I think Rany had a good point about trading guys you just signed to free agent deals hurting your ability to sign guys in the future. Meche certainly seems to want to be in KC, losses be damned, so much so that he has a no-trade clause of some sort.
On another topic, why do you think Meche throws so many damn pitches per inning? He’s got have one of the highest pitches/inning in the league. A nibbler? Doesn’t know how to finish guys off? Should we be concerned with all the workload on his arm?
Other thoughts from yesterday:
Aviles has pretty much cemented in my mind he’s a passable shortstop defensively. I see no reason why he can’t play there every day. Will he win a Gold Glove? No. Will he be in the top five in any defensive metric? No. Will he make most of the routine plays and a few dazzling plays now and then? Yep. So long as he keep his OPS above .800, I’m happy with that.
Gil Meche should shave more of his teammates heads before games after finally getting some run support from John Buck of all people.
Is Mark Teahen just resting or is he in the doghouse? I’m thinking his days in KC are getting numbered.
Isn’t it nice having a great front of the bullpen? Never really felt the game was in doubt once Gilly handed a 4-0 lead over to the pen. DM deserves major props for understanding how to cheaply and effectively assemble a pen.
Kietzman yesterday was saying how he thinks there is a feeling among Royals fans that this team is better than last year’s – when the record is exactly the same. Is this team better than last year’s? If they are not, why does it seem like they are better?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I don't know that we really believe we are a better team right now,
but I think the common perception is that the pieces are in place more now than they have been in the past several years. We have Gil locked up for a while and we have 4 to 5 other pitchers who are ML level starters in their 20’s who will still be in baseball 5 years from now, and not retreads and has-beens trying to stay afloat with yet another team (Mays, Redman, Elarton, Perez, etc.)
The tragic flaw of this team IMO is that so many PAs have been wasted on the three headed monster of Gload, Gathright and Pena. If they were only a little below average at their respective positions, this team would probably have at least 4 to 5 more wins. You have to believe that this will be solved going forward. It appears that efforts are already being made.
I also think that Trey has made a lot of mistakes that can probably be attributed to being a “rookie” manager which may have cost a few wins. You have to hope/believe that he will learn from his mistakes and improve as he gains experience.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 25, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that
swithcing out aging veterans and their bloated ERAs with young guns and their semi-bloated ERAs feels like improvement because the team has commited to the young guys that we have hope of improvement for as opposed to the band-aid method.
And definitely too many PAs for those guys. Why TPJ is even on this team befuddles me.
I still have hope for Hillman, maddening as he is sometimes.
Don't Stop Believing!
I don't think
a no-trade clause says a guy wants to be here so much as it says if you trade me without my permission, it’s going to cost someone a lot more money than what you’ve already agreed to.
Despite that, I do think Meche wants to be here, and I don’t want to trade him. He does need to learn how to finish guys off. So do Banny, Hochevar, Davies, and to an extent Greinke. It seems like we give up a ton of 0-2 pitch hits and HRs. Ridiculous! Anyway, I guess I’m saying that I think our whole staff can still improve, which is nice, and there’s no reason to trade Meche.
Don't Stop Believing!
Meche with 2 strikes
With 2 strikes this year, Meche’s line against him is:
.174/.245/.268/.513 Not bad.
At 0-2:
.116/.116/.209/.326 That’s good. He’s also struck out about 1/2 of the players that have had an 0-2 count, on the next pitch. He’s struck out about 40% of the people that he has gotten to 0-2 on total.
You’d expect it from the ace of your staff…and he’s probably the #2 right now.
Thanks
That’s interesting. I wonder how that compares to the league average.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW - Meche is 2nd in P/IP with 17.2 of
all AL pitchers with 100+ IP (48 total).
Jarrod Washburn is first (last?) with 17.6.
League ERA leader Duchscherer has the fewest with 13.8.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 25, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems like we're better because
we’re doing the same even though so many of our players are clearly underperforming. Last year, we had Banny being lights-out. This year, we complain about Pena, Gload and Gathright, but last year, they hit .267, .288 and .307, respectively. We had Buck’s monster half-year, and Butler was performing to expectations. And with all that, we still couldn’t win 70 games.
This year we have the same record…and that’s not depending on fluke career years. Gordon and Butler are disappointing, Banny and Hochevar are stumbling in their learning process…this year, there’s the feeling that if we can get these guys to perform like they really should, that’s our big leap forward right there.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
I think the team is better overall
I remember back before the season started, many people said that we could be better and have the same or worse record, because our division was going to be so much tougher.
Like I think you are saying, on an individual level, there are some disappointments. However, there have also been some real surprises (Aviles, DeJesus).
Unfortunately, I’m not sure how much we’ve learned or will learn after this year. We still have many of the same question marks as before the season started, possibly more, from a production standpoint.
I do think that one change that seems to have happened is that the team has shown more “toughness”. I realize that is a somehwat nebulous thing and really only judged via anecdotal evidence, but there sure seem to be a lot of games this year where I fully expected the Royals to just crawl into the proverbial fetal position, and they fought back. Is it better talent, a better attitude, the random ebbs and flows of baseball?
I do think that all other things being equal, if Gordon, Butler, and Bannister both performed at their 50% PECOTA projections, and we added a bat and another starting pitcher, the team would be above .500 and within hailing distance of the division race.
One man with courage makes a majority - Andrew Jackson
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 25, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Aviles
I’m not sure what the break even point is for him (how good he’d have to hit to justify his presence in the lineup given his defense), but if he can manage a .775 OPS, then I’d be more than happy with him as an everyday SS. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with his defense. At worst it is below average, but not by a lot.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 25, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I said this in the game thread
Teahen’s banged up. They actually referenced it on the broadcast last night. He’s apparently not on Trey’s blacklist or anything like that.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
He's got vertigo
from being in the vortex of suckitude for so long.
One man with courage makes a majority - Andrew Jackson
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 25, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright
I cannot believe I trudged through that entire argument, damn you guys!
by I need more Esteban on Jul 25, 2008 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
Amen
Holy crap, I can’t believe I read all this. I’m going to go drink some rum.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
you drink rum and chocolate milk?
whoah…
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
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