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Mitch Maier Just Wins Ballgames

Royalsreview_tiny by royalsreview on in News Comment 326 comments

Party on, Gil. Party on, Joakim.

  • Salutations to Gil Meche on a second straight strong start, albeit a slightly Bannyrific one. Whatever works. It's terrific to see Gil getting stronger here, just as we approach the cusp of the dog days. Incidentally, the phrase "dog days" is a pretty old one, I noticed it in Pope's Dunciad (1728). Actually, this is wrong, I got mixed up in my reading reflections for today, I saw the phrase in a short story by Sarah Orne Jewett, from 1893, I believe. Apologies.
  • I wonder what Meche's trade value is? Especially now that Harden and Sabathia are gone.
  • Ross Gload. Another day, another nine innings of Gload.
  • Who else was in tears watching J.P. Howell pitch? It all makes sense now. Joey had to be off-site with the Rays and Howell back in town. Too much pain.  Pitching is the currency of baseball...
  • Saw this on fangraphs.

 

1 recs  |  Comment 326 comments

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Read More: Tampa Bay Rays at Kansas City Royals, Jul 24, 2008 8:10 PM EDT

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First

I’ll have a beer, as long as I look stupid

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 10:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

make sure something tells you that it is cold

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also

make sure that some hottie who wanted to get it on with me tonight is there to see me partying instead of taking care of my dead grandmother

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His value will never be higher

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jinx!!!!!!!

you owe me a beer of uncertain temperature

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, his value won't get much higher

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Thought You

Were responding to JM

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's interesting that we keep saying that his value will never be higher every few months

It was said in May of last year. It was said in October of last year. It’s been said in July this year.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it just keeps goin up!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's like the price of oil

it’s never been higher than yesterday
oh – wait – now it’s never been higher
(repeat)

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 25, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mitch maier = wins

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Buck just said Meche cut his hair off....

so he hopes his wife has the doors unlocked when he gets home.

Next up….Bannister gives Guillen a new haircut!

That MUST be the key to success!

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jason LaRue = Struck out to end the game

Milwaukee sweeps STL as the world’s greatest fans (per STL-based Sporting News) boo.

Surely I just heard that wrong on my tv!

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm Weeping In

Joy.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the Royals win, or LaPoo striking out

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

our glass is truly more than half full

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't Tease Me

I can’t get it here.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well i can give play-by-play.

for some reason Jack Clark is doing the post-game analysis now. He looks like he could be a pro-wrestler…......or a strip club owner…..possibly both.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's talk about glove

Aviles had a Pena-like game out in the field, and I don’t mean a truly Pena-like game, but a “this is the perception people have of Pena”-like game.

Can we finally just shut up about him being a bad fielder or having no range? Really? ‘cause he made absolutely sick, stupid plays going to BOTH sides tonight.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He had two great out of zone plays tonight

He gets full credit for that. Those two plays don’t make him an above average defensive SS (or even average in my opinion).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, hush.

You don’t count. :p

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also:

WHY ARE YOU BEING NEGATIVE

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think it's just because

you had to watch him play college ball in NY and kept hearing how he was supposed to be the greatest player ever.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In NY, they told me that he'd be a perennial Gold Glove winner

So he’s really be a complete failure.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's Really Be

A sho mofo; yo.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aviles oozes OOZ!

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

most definitely.

Other than those two mental mistakes, he hasn’t been the butcher that everyone labelled him to be.

Of course, the same can be said of Butler to an extent….but he hasn’t dazzled with the glove at times like Aviles.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's On

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it will be a real dogfight

between the Royals and Cleveland.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sad thing is...

this coulda been the year

i think tigers/white sox/twins are gonne keep beating each other up

and none are great

with the indians likely to play better, it could be a bloodbath

by royalsreview on Jul 24, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn Gordon!

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks to Hinske, Gload gets two more weeks

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting Note....

Everyone in the lineup had a hit except for the #3&#4 guys…...Grud/Guillen 0-7…with sac fly

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Lefevbre, first inning:

“Guillen’s really feeling loose now, after ending his 0-14 last night, probably in position to break out…”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Hives?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in another tantrum?

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just got him in a trade in my fantasy league,

so I”m sorry but he will play even worse, or get hurt and DL’ed

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do we keep talking about this trade Meche nonsense?

Let’s just “sell high” with all of our good players and re-build for 2013. Sound like a good idea? It’s not like Meche is old and way past his peak. Given his age, it looks like he’ll be helping this team win games throughout the entirety of his contract.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, _I_ was joking, anyway.

I figured Will was too, but maybe not…

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clearly, he was not.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is dayton is really a badass at finding pitching

he needs to trade some of his guys to keep building the roster

sell high on meche, find the next meche, repeat

by royalsreview on Jul 24, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No GM bats 1.000

While Moore is good at finding pitchers, you don’t acquire a building block just so you can trade him and find another building block (hopefully).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeeeah

This reminds me of Whitey Herzog’s line about why he never played the “one hitter” game with his relievers:

Every time you change pitchers, you’re taking a chance on putting the guy out there who’s got nothing.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, the Royals can trade their pitching currency without trading Meche or Greinke

The depth is in the minors.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chits

Including but not necessarily limited to
Rosa
Cortes
Wood
Pimentel
Mahay
Nunez
Ramirez

also

Teahen
etc.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But continually trading our best pitchers puts us in perpetual rebuilding mode with no end in sight

You really want to do that?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like the A's?

That doesn’t seem so bad.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are not continually rebuilding

The build, compete, rebuild, compete, rebuild, etc.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are not competing

So we should be building. Sometimes that means trading valuable vets for young prospects.

I don’t think we should look to deal Meche, but we shouldn’t foreclose the possiblity.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You never foreclose the possibility of trading anyone at all, of course.

But some guys fall into the category of “worth more to us than to anyone else.” Meche and DDJ certainly fall into that category for us.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are rebuilding

But we’re not at the point in our rebuilding that we should be trading away our best players. That’s the earliest stage of rebuilding. We’re not there anymore. Trading away guys like Meche puts us considerably further away from contention.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not if it gets us

Good prospects who are ready to contribute by 2010

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That presupposes

we can’t compete in 2009.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Chide me for being too negative, but I’m going to say we will not contend for a title in 2009.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we can.

If Aviles is anything near for real, and Gordon starts to get it together, and we don’t waste April and May figuring out which of our pitchers suck ass. Hell, if we’d started THIS season with Aviles and without a half-dozen gas cans in the pitching staff, we’d at least be around .500.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prospects are always iffy

Most prospects fail. It’s a very risky strategy which likely puts us farther away from contention.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's why

You ask for more than one.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And how many genuinely good prospects does one typically get in a package?

Uno. Trading a key building block on this team would build up the minor league system and probably add a year to the rebuilding period (one of the reasons is that rookies typically don’t show up and be good right away).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just last week

The A’s got two for a pitcher worse than Meche.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with that comparison

is that the A’s trade guys who are done and cooked (everyone else), or they trade guys they can get half a team for (Haren).

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

their haul for Mulder is pretty impressive......

considering it was Haren who brought all those cats from the D-backs

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder was done and cooked

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And then his arm fell off

and flopped around on the floor for a couple of hours before Jim Edmonds accidentally spiked it.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scully Is A

Bust.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where does Nick Swisher fall?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

at the end of the bar?

He’s not a pitcher!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets not forget that the A's

also signed Evil Brown and Sore-back Sweeney…they are not the model of perfection to emulate.

Let's Go Blues!

by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm probably wrong here, but when was the last time we traded

our best pitcher(s)?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

199...1?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can't be wrong, that was a question.

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, I put it poorly - I can't remember when we have traded our best pitcher

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Appier?

Cone in ‘95, but our hand was forced.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We didn't in 2002

When we had Paul Byrd. And it may have cost us Orlando Hudson if you believe the rumors.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Appier may have been "our best pitcher"

when we traded him, but he was done.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Royals have only had a "best" pitcher for two years now

Before Meche the Royal’s “best” pitcher was Redman, and he could only rustle up a minor league contract to start the 2007 season.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Jul 25, 2008 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Macdougal might well have been

our best pitcher when we traded him for Lumsden and Cortes.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jul 25, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, in case anyone is wondering, Meche is back to basically the same pitching level that he was at in 2007

After a slow start (first 6 starts), he’s been very good. And, his overall numbers (ERA and FIP) are that of a #2 SP.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

SHUT THIS BLOG DOWN RIGHT FUCKING NOW !!!

KC FANS DON’T CELEBRATE WINS-NYRoyal

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who is that?

It looks like the guy that played Tommy’s cop brother on “Rescue Me”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cause-effect

Think this thread has anything to do with my complaining yesterday?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The guy in Good Will Hunting

Apples

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah

I like apples.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not really NY there are blogs after most wins

I would say the cause and effect might be the run differential. This team seems to win Alot of close ones and lose alot of biggies. Easier to complain after bashings and maybe a little less enthusiastic after close wins.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Afte rmost wins?

Of course there aren’t? There are post-game threads about the game after most wins? Are you saying that because you don’t know the truth or is it an intentional lie?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

honestly

for a long time i wasnt doing post-game posts, win or lose

i’ve been trying to do more in the last few weeks, win or lose

but sometime it just depends on my personal life

by royalsreview on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really feel shortchanged

Considering how much we pay for this site.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And of course, that's not the point

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point?

I have to have points with my jokes?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I inferred that you were making a point that since we don't pay anything for this site, we shouldn't complain or comment on the content

For the record, I’m critiquing the viewpoint, not the content, per se.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

It was just a joke.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then I inferred incorrectly

mea culpa

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You do it much, much more often after losses

And that’s not a coincidence.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea Will

You are a Debbie Downer!!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hater

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have read alot of BOD's

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, there are BOD's after wins

That is just a player of the game post. That’s completely different than the post-mortem threads.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you may have just hit on it

“post-mortem”

In all my years in the tech field, we never had a post-mortem meeting to discuss how awesomely well a situation was handled. You only call the post-mortem to discuss what went wrong and how to prevent it later.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see how that example is relevant

That kind of post-mortem meeting is a practical necessity. We’re talking about chatting about a game after the fact. Talking about what happened, whether good, bad or indifferent. The same practical need for discussing mistakes simply isn’t there. We have an equal practical need for talking about the bad and the good (zero).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You used the term

don’t get on me for applying it properly. :p

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually applying it appropriately would be talking about cutting up a dead body

That doesn’t really go to the issue of why Royals fans love to talk incessantly about the horribleness of the team after a loss, but not so much after a win.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have said many times that this is not unique to Royals fans

That doesn’t make it any better. My point is that we wallow in negativity and our analysis is usually clouded by that extreme negativity, particularly when the team is losing. It isn’t about honesty or even an attempt at objectivity. It’s about emotion.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're following a sports team

and expect the experience to be emotionless, well, you might want to get a new hobby…

by loyal2sdad on Jul 25, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see lots of people trying to rationalize and justify their negativity

Is that supposed to change my mind. And none of us are experts in social psychology.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it's entirely Royals fans....

at lunch with a group of teachers the conversation is much more likely to tell a negative story than a positive one.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree NY, maybe its the same reason that most of our (including your)

replies are in disagreement, rather than agreement.

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's different

but I see your point

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Different, yes, but its the same ball park,

kind of like foot massages and, well, if you’ve seen Pulp Fiction, you know.

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on really and I'm not trying to start a huge argument here.

KC’s run differential is -81 (Worst in the AL) yet they have more wins this year than last and for the most part I believe they are a better team than last. When this team gets beat, it gets crushed. Anytime that happens fans are not gonna see the glimpse of light they are gonna see the black hole. IT’s NOT Crazy its just common. My question is do you read the KC star everyday, do you listen to 610/810am online? It’s hard not to be negative when a person is following this team on a daily basis. It would be easier to stay possitive if all you did was watch the game on TV and listen to Split/Ryan shove sunshine up your ass (Employees of the team) and look at boxscores and stats.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think you may have a point here.

I think most of the “positive” folks aren’t local.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

guilty

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I follow the team as closely as anyone on the planet

So one can follow the team closely and be realistic and fair about it, as opposed to emotionally overreacting.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wish people wouldn't pretend that they aren't being overly negative, emotional and overreacting

This is yet another example of the argument I have on this site all the time.

Poster: Blah, blah, negative, blah, blah, negative.
Me: that’s an emotional overreaction
Poster: No it isn’t. It’s objective truth.
Me. No, it’s emotion and overreaction.
Poster. No it isn’t!
Me: Yes it is
Poster: After years of Royals failures and having to watch them lose again and hearing about it all day around town, I have a right to be negative and emotionally overreact!

First they deny it, then they justify it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I realize that

But I consider the source. You can’t make everyone be rational and level-headed. It’s not possible. Not “it’s too much work” or “it just takes time,” but impossible.

So, really, all this is?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think I can fix anybody

I just make commentary on things I feel like commenting on. And if someone wants to argue with me about it, I’m usually game. I’m sure some (many) are tired of hearing about it. I’m tired of hearing unreasonable, irrational, negative crap about the Royals (the Royals are deserving of a lot of negative crap, but we Royals fans often go way over the top). But we don’t always get what we want, do we?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're all wrong

And he’s right. That should tell us something.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I'm not entitled to my opinion

I’m really sorry for sharing my viewpoint.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its okay

Just be careful next time.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll do my best

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understand

for the most part, I do agree with Scott. There are people here who are entirely too negative and emotional and composed of a mass of stupid and unsupportable arguments, and I have crawled down their throats myself on numerous occasions.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I don’t really care if people speak there mind or not, but there is a hellll of a lot of negativity, ESPECIALLY during gamethreads. Last season I loved being in on gamethreads, but this year it’s becoming hard to even be in one because when anything goes wrong there are a select few who just bash and bash and bash the team for every little thing. Maybe my memory is clouded and it was the same last year but I don’t think so.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 25, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last year, as I lurked

it seemed more like a… light-hearted negativity. It feels more serious and angsty this season.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand

And at times I too think fans get overly critical, but I think you are going about it the wrong way. Good message, poor messenger. You’re being abrasive and confrontational and being self-righteous and it has a way of making people defensive.

I don’t know what would be a right way to go about it, but in all the time you’ve been on this mission of yours, I don’t think you’ve really convinced anyone.

Plus you seem to offer precious little criticism, which is bewildering considering this is a team that lost 90+ games last year and is on pace to do the same this year. Maybe things are moving in the right direction, but its not like every move Dayton and Trey make are golden. They’re making quite a few missteps along the way, understandable I’m sure, but you’re inability to see many mistakes severly undercuts your credibility. You’re seen as a mouthpiece for the franchise, and your message gets lost.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know that I really try to change people's minds. I just call a spade a spade.

I give my opinions. I say what I think is the truth. I’m not so egotistical that I think I can just share my opinion (whether confrontationally or sweetly) and people will just change their minds and agree with me. Like everyone, I just speak my mind.

Plus you seem to offer precious little criticism,

That is complete and total bullshit. I mean really, you couldn’t be more wrong. I don’t criticize Gload, Gathright and half of the bullpen (these are just some examples)? I don’t criticize Hillman? I don’t say that Moore has done half of a good job? That is unfair and completely untrue.
but its not like every move Dayton and Trey make are golden

And I have certainly not defended every move either of them has made. They have both made many bad moves.
, but you’re inability to see many mistakes severly undercuts your credibility

You want to write me off as a pollyanna, but that is just plain wrong. I don’t see many mistakes? You’re way, way off.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, you hate Aviles

with the burning passion of a thousand stars, and you think I’m a doodyhead for trying to convince you he knows what a glove is.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not saying you don't follow the team closely.

Not everything I say in here is a emotional overreaction as you infer.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, not everything

But I don’t think you realize how much of what you say is emotional and/or an overreaction.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did Overreact with the Aviles/Gordon debate

but you overreacted to my thought that Gordon needs some kind of help which he does.

This is yet another example of the argument I have on this site all the time.

Poster: Blah, blah, negative, blah, blah, negative.
Me: that’s an emotional overreaction
Poster: No it isn’t. It’s objective truth.
Me. No, it’s emotion and overreaction.
Poster. No it isn’t!
Me: Yes it is
Poster: After years of Royals failures and having to watch them lose again and hearing about it all day around town, I have a right to be negative and emotionally overreact!

First they deny it, then they justify it.


This is as emotional/irrational as anything anyone else writes. You really have a heir of superiority in here. Why can’t one be negative? Is everything just spoonfuls of sugar, you really haven’t been married long have you. jk

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus I think its cuts both ways

I think many posters are guilty of being emotional and overly critical, but NYRoyal, you seem to be emotional and overly supportive of the franchise.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure you think I'm overly positive

But I think that’s because you’re overly negative. Who knows.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your defenses of this franchise

Far outnumber your criticisms. I don’t think any objective person would come to the same conclusion.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No. That's not what I said.

I said your defenses far outnumber your criticisms, and I do not think any objective person would agree.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If there have been more good things done than bad things, then wouldn't it make sense for defenses to outnumber criticisms?

If a person defends a GM more than he criticizes him, does that make him a blind defender of the GM? Does that make his defenses unreasonable? What am I missing here?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're not reading my post

I am saying your defenses FAR outnumber your criticisms and that no objective person would agree.

You defend the moves of this franchise nearly all the time. Any move or non-move can be explained with “management must know something we don’t” the way Creationists explain away science saying “God did it.” Its a blind faith.

A more objective person would be far more critical than you have been.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's just plain wrong
You defend the moves of this franchise nearly all the time

That’s wrong.
Any move or non-move can be explained with "management must know something we don’t"

And that is even more wrong. When’s the last time I said anything like that? You pulled that out of your ass. The closest thing I have ever said to that is saying that Moore has a good track record on acquiring pitchers, so I trust him. I said that the fact that he’s done well means that we need to include that in our analysis of an acquisition.
A more objective person would be far more critical than you have been.

In the very least, I would disagree with the word “far” in that sentence. I think a lot of this is about the fact that you get pissed off at me whenever I criticize the negativity of Royals fans on this site. The more pissed off you get at me, the more withering your critique of my analysis.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop calling it analysis

Because it just sounds like bitching.

by minda33 on Jul 25, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bitching

Me complaining about the ultra-negativity and knee-jerk emotional reactions could fairly be called “bitching.” But in the above posts, Retro and I have been talking about our analyses of various moves by this organization and our arguing for or against them. That is analysis.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

But I’m watching this argument from the sidelines and don’t understand why it is still happening.

(And yet, I can’t look away…)

by minda33 on Jul 25, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Family squabble

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll all be scissoring by 3am.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Retro has never shown any desire to scissor with me

:(

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you think I have some vendetta against you

You’re mistaken. I’ve told you several times we agree quite a bit, and probably have more in common than you’d think (for example, we’re both politically liberal attorneys)

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's got to be a term for this

and I’m moving this over to a left-ward thread before explaining further.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jonf

If you’re implying that Retro and I are secretly in love with each other, then I’d say that there is a 62% chance that you’re dead wrong.

There ain’t no good guys. There ain’t no bad guys. There’s only him and me and we just disagree. [/song]

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think from now on I'm going to work hard to point out to people when I'm critical of Moore and/or Hillman

I think it gets lost in the shuffle by people who have already decided that I blindly defend everything the organization does.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're misremembering

You say it all the time. You said it to defend the Brett Tomko signing. The Horacio Ramirez signing. The reason we didn’t put in a claim for Dan Johnson or Chris Shelton. Many times when you can’t find evidence supporting your argument, you turn to “well we’re just guessing,” or “management must know something ”, or “we don’t know what is in Player X’s head” or “we don’t know what is going on behind closed doors” or “no one else likes this guy, that should tell us something.”

I can’t really address your last point because I’m not really sure what you mean.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Please find the quotes for me then

I have said that with Moore acquiring pitchers, one of the things we should include in our analysis is that if Moore and his people like them, that is something in the player’s favor. That should be a part of the picture. That shouldn’t be a part of the picture with position players, because he doesn’t have a good track record with them.

The reason we didn’t put in a claim for Dan Johnson or Chris Shelton.

For them, I didn’t say that Moore must know something we don’t. I said that if nobody claimed them, no MLB team, then that says something about them. It doesn’t mean they are necessarily worthless. But if 30 GM’s pass on a guy, that should be included in the analysis of that player.
Many times when you can’t find evidence supporting your argument, you turn to "well we’re just guessing," or "management must know something ", or "we don’t know what is in Player X’s head" or "we don’t know what is going on behind closed doors" or "no one else likes this guy, that should tell us something."

You’ve grouped a lot of very different things together. I talk about “we’re just guessing” when we’re talking about what WILL happen in the future. It’s really hard to guess what Moore, for instance will do this offseason. That is guessing. As far as sports psychology, I do often say that that is just guesswork on our parts. We can only guess what is going on their heads or how various things will affect them psychologically. I don’t talk about how “management must know something.” I don’t, period. I do say that when every team passes on a player, that should help inform our opinion of them. When every single GM passes on a player (the most traditional ones, the most progressive ones, the most sabermetric ones), we have to include that as one meaningful piece of information in evaluating the player.
I can’t really address your last point because I’m not really sure what you mean.

I’m saying that your argument that I am merely a blind defender of Moore, Hillman and the Royals organization is mostly about you being pissed off at me, so you feel like lashing out at me and marginalizing my analysis. You don’t like it when I point out the overly emotional crap from many Royals fans, so you go after me with this stuff sometimes when I talk about it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've marginalized your own analysis

I had nothing to do with it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clearly in your eyes any comment I make in defense of the organization is merely blinding defending the Royals

So my commentary is marginalized in your eyes. I guess we’ll agree to disagree. And you can ignore my blind defense of the Royals. And you’ll continue to see my criticisms of the Royals as crazed, inexplicable aberrations.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For a long time I didn't

I disagreed with some of your analysis, agreed with others. But your constant approval of everything Dayton and criticism of all criticisms against him have made your agenda quite clear and have undercut any semblance of objectivity in your posts.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd suggest this doesn't make a lot of sense

I haven’t perceived Max as being Mister Negativity so much, so I don’t understand why you’d think his objections are a result of him being pissed off about your anti-negativity crusade?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He gets very pissed off when I talk about the negative emotional overreactions in gamethreads or post-game threads

He hates it and frequently lashes out at me for it with a, “you’re just as emotional and irrational on the positive” side argument.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"lashes"

I’m sure that’s an unemotional, rational description of my posts.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

...you kinda… do, sometimes. And I often agree with it, so that’s not a criticism. I guess the ultimate question is, “Does it really matter?”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

I’m sure I’ve gotten heated from time to time. And I guess its true I don’t like it when NYRoyal goes after criticisms in this manner. It smacks of self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

moore and his people

liked TPJ.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Jul 25, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it likely

that occasionally just saying, “Well, reasonable people can disagree on this” and letting it go might help. I think I’m the only person you ever get to that point with anymore, and it takes you about 50 comments to get there.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By now, everyone should know that I don't much care if I rub people the wrong way

I’m going to tell it like it is (as I see it), and that’s it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine

What we’re telling you is that your approach undermines your message.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm sure that's true

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Retro is not just saying that I argue too hard, too much or too often

Significantly, he’s also saying that I’m a constant defender of Moore and Hillman. That I don’t honestly and realistically evaluate the Royals or its management; I just defend everything. And that isn’t at all true. Not even close.

As far as argument style, I don’t care. I’ll keep a debate going. Often others will too. A long debate isn’t anyone person’s fault. It takes at least two to tango.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There have been times when I have essentially said to you early in an argument, "reasonable people can disagree," and your response has essentially been, "No, they can’t, and here’s why you’re still wrong."

You will say, “reasonable people can disagree,” and then you will go on to make an argument. Then I will respond to the argument (usually disagreeing). The fact that I disagree with you does not mean that I don’t believe that reasonable people can disagree on a subject. On 99.9% of the things I have debated on this site, I will readily agree that reasonable people can disagree about these things. That is what we are doing in the debate.
People try to extricate themselves from arguments with you, and you continue. People try to mediate, and you don’t allow it.

Actually, people usually try to extricate themselves from arguments with me by ceasing to argue. When people continue with the debate, that is not attempting to extricate themselves from the debate.
And I do apologize, but I was really disappointed with that "I guess I’m not allowed to have an opinion" thing, too. That’s one of the most famous passive-aggressive tactics in the entire history of the internet. It says that you equate dissension with censorship.

Being disappointed with that is fair. And it is passive aggressive. Not one of my finest moments. The reason I said it was because it was in response to a post which said, “We’re all wrong And he’s right. That should tell us something.” To me, that read as, “we all disagree with him, so he should stop arguing his point. If everyone disagrees with him, then his viewpoint isn’t valid.”

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see why you would come to that conclusion

That wasn’t my intent. I was pointing out that the fact that everyone disagrees with you illustrates that perhaps you are not making your point well at all.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps I am not

Or, perhaps I should say, “clearly I am not.”

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What you are calling "arguing"

in that instance is more accurately termed “a closing comment whose intent is merely to illustrate that I am not demonstrably wrong, combined with a concession that you actually do have a valid point.”

You have, on numerous occasions, followed such a statement with the basic essence of “Okay, we can disagree, but I’m still more right than you,” which is… well, it’s irritating, is what it is.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I don't always see such a thing as "closing comment"

And also, I probably don’t much like closing comments which are, “we’ll agree to disagree, but I’ll reiterate my point of X, Y and Z.” I guess I don’t want to feel like someone gets to foreclose the debate merely by invoking “agree to disagree” while they continue to make their points. If I see debate-worthy content in a post, I’ll probably reply with my disagreement.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You must hate trials, then. ;)

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since I've usually been acquitted, not so much

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you had said, "Gordon is struggling and needs some kind of help"

...then I would have agreed with you. Instead, you said silly things like that he isn’t clutch and that Matranga or Lisson would perform as well as him. You see the difference?

Why can’t one be negative?

People can be however they want to be. I just prefer honest, realistic analysis to emotional, negative overreactions. And I’m going to critique analysis which I think is poor.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You read the post my 3 options weren’t call up Matranga/Lisson. All I said is I would expect any ball player to hit with the same stats Gordon was for the last month. That is any scrub that has put on a Minor league jersey at AA ball up to the ML .200 isn’t that unattainable. I never said any of those guys have the ability or are better than Gordon. You thought I did but you were wrong. I just don’t think the leave him alone approach works. I don’t have much faith in Barnett and if it is working with Brett, going to Omaha, or just gaining confidence by putting him in Win-Win situations KC needs to do that. The psychology of the game plays far more into it than you give it credit for because you can’t put a number on it. Confidence plays into clutch/The It being loose not tense it all counts.

I think you think because I was a Aviles supporter I want every scrub up from Omaha, which I don’t. I would rather Kila jumped Shealy if they are gonna make a move with Gload, I think Costa is a total scrub and besides Rosa and maybe Hughes (tonight 5.1 Ip 5H 4 BB 1 ER) there isn’t much pitching/hitting talent either.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 25, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Without getting into the whole Gordon thing, I want to say one thing about psychology
The psychology of the game plays far more into it than you give it credit for because you can’t put a number on it. Confidence plays into clutch/The It being loose not tense it all counts.

As I have said many times, I believe that psychology is important to performance. Confidence and other psychological factors matter a lot. But here are some of the problems:

1. We have no idea what is going on in Gordon’s head. We can only guess. You and I have no idea where his confidence or anything else is right now.
2. We have no idea what sending him down would do for his psychology. Would it build up his confidence or tear it down? We have no idea.

My problem with fans saying X or Y should be done because of psychology is not because the psychological element is meaningless. It’s because we have no idea what is going on psychologically. We’re describing and prescribing from complete unknowns.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I understand your point there.

There is no known for Gordon. My point on Alex in particular is I don’t want him to turn in to Mark Teahen. Except for a stint that they sent him back down to Omaha which he responded from I think they have taken a hands off approach. Can I back that up for sure no I can’t but he has looked like the same hitter for his entire career except for that one stretch back fom Omaha. I don’t want that to happen to a player with Alex’s ability/talent.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 25, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But c'mon

it was pretty out there to suggest that Matranga/Lisson could hit just as well as Gordon. You did say that.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Its out there to consider they could hit as well

as Gordon long term. That is not what I was saying I suggested they could hit the way Gordon has the last 2 months. I would never compare Matranga or Lisson to Gordon long term. That would be totally idiotic.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 25, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is a good point

I listened to the pre-game on 810 last night and Soren was going off about blowing up the team. Trade Gordon, Butler, etc.

NY is right about the negativity, but its not as extreme as he perceives it to be. And let’s be clear, this is all about individual’s perceptions, no one has any claim to evidence about these conjectures.

As someone said yesterday, people are tired of the same old shit. So, when a series like Detroit happens, when we’re not even in the same ballpark for all three games, the emotions take over. We’ve had more than our fair share of series like that over the last decade.

Royals Win!

by gordonfan on Jul 25, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Leftward Thread

There’s got to be a term for this: it has been my experience in communties where debate is encouraged (or, even, is the point of the exercise) that the most vicious debate comes between people who are in agreement 99% of the time. Another example would be that I suspect this year’s presidential campaign to pale in comparison to the ugliness of the Democratic primary season.

People don’t bother arguing with those who they perceive as being completely out in left field. They argue with people they think they can sway.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm...

in baseball terms, is this site left or right wing though?

by royalsreview on Jul 25, 2008 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That begs the question of what constitutes "left" and "right" in baseball terms

I do kind of liken progressive baseball thinking with progressive politics, but that might just be because I’m a lefty.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, no, NO.

Sabermetrics is right-wing, because it is soulless and sucks the humanity out of the game in favor of pure statistical meritocracy. The sabermetric mafia also consistently argue that it’s okay to not pay your workers well as long as you have them under your thumb, and then turn around and argue that you’re overpaying them once they’re free agents. They rail against the practice of building stadiums for teams, which is obviously a dirty communist action.

(I’m a moderate Republican, so I can get away with this sort of slander.)

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

C'mon,...

name one player who is not “being paid well”

Let's Go Blues!

by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You gotta get out of New York,

it’s corrupting your mind. :(

Let's Go Blues!

by powderbluesfor08 on Jul 25, 2008 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm

I often argue with people I think are completely out in left field (stat ninja, kcsoliny, etc.). I also debate with people who I often agree with (you, NHZ, JQ, Retro, etc.). I’m an equal opportunity debater. Perhaps Retro and I get into to the degree that we do because we’re too much alike. I don’t know. He’s certainly not as confrontational as I am. But, as he has pointed, we’re alike in many ways. And we do often agree. Who knows. I know I’m tired of arguing about negativity, emotion, etc. Really. At least for the time being.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't clear.

When I said “most vicious debate”, I meant that the bitterness and duration of arguments between people who generally agree far outstrips that of people who have no hope of swaying one another’s opinions.

When you and I are really going at it, I actually get MAD sometimes, because goddamnit, you’re supposed to be able to at least see my point of view even if we may quibble on details. When I get into it with, say… no, let’s not name names, let’s just say “when I get into it with someone I actively dislike”... I’m Mister Smirky and don’t really care.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I view our debates and differences as similar to the royals

I’m Jose Guillen and you are Mark Teahen. I bust off the handle and you are Mark Teahen everything is gonna be okay

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 25, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In all seriousness that was a great win and any trade of Meche

wouldn’t be good. Gil has looked great for a couple months now and if this Team is gonna contend in ‘10 he would have to be a part of the pitching staff. Zach “The Head”, Gil, Carlos Rosa, Hoch/Banni/Soria/Davies pick your poison

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Since we are on trades...

who thinks DDJ or TEahen will be shipped?

by royalsreview on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't see DDJ going anywhere.

He’s too good to trade for maybes, and not good enough to trade for sure things.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We really can't do anything but guess at this point

I think Teahen should be shopped, not necessarily at the deadline, but in the offseason. We can’t afford to lose DeJesus in CF. Teahen wouldn’t replace him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ye of little faith

My crystal ball and Delorean (with flux capassiter) can help foretell the future.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

And it probably won’t be for much. I think Teahen has run his course in KC. 2008 will be his last season in Royal blue.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Him To

The Yankees and he’ll go .300/.380/.550, 40 HR’s, 125 RBI’s and play GG RF.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Teah would hit

like 80 2b in Boston.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How did Meier start out as catcher, I thought non-athletic

types were relegated to catcher??

My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Toledo coaches

Understand the defensive spectrum

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Excessive Piling on STL Update....

I’m usually not a fan of standing a watching a HR….but both Bill Hall (Tues) and Ryan Braun (tonight) just stood and watched those homers drive a spike into the greatest fans’ hearts…...

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd stand and watch a homer against STL too.

But I’d watch one against the Yankees a few seconds longer. Maybe long enough to get hit by a pitch before I ever left the batter’s box.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

who do you think you are - A-Rod?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell no

I know better than to sleep with skanky hos ten years older than me.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now,

ten years younger… :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 25, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell, 20 even!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just how old are you? :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 25, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Old enough that I can do that

and not go to jail anywhere. :p

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd Dive In

And take it for you if you did that.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah. he was whining about the strike zone without coming out and saying it.

his post-game press conferences are hilarious.

how someone can be such a total jerk like that and still have respect from the media is a bit boggling.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't there once a time

when TLR really was a genius, and he really was worthy of respect?

It seems like aeons ago…

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i believe there was something on BP once... maybe 5 years ago, to the effect of

“he has a law degree and occasionally wears glasses, inspiring many within the media to consider him a genius”

by royalsreview on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He used to be a stat guy

And everyone used to marvel at how he used stats.

Then Billy Beane came along, used stats properly, rejected orthodoxy, which pissed off Joe Morgan and his cabal of baseball men, and stats were a dirty word. TLR now denies that he uses stats that much instead saying he uses his “gut.”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea... matchup stats and L/R and... nothing else

i do appreciate that he thinks (somewhat) outside of the box, as in the pitcher hitting 8th thing

of course, i hazard to guess that the #2 hitter for the cards is still the “good bat handler” type which also seems pointless

by royalsreview on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only a matter of time

Before we do. Hopefully in place of Gload.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 25, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Pirates have done this for several weeks

I was in Pittsburgh for the July 7 game with Houston (the game where Runelvys Hernandez was shelled) and Dumatrait batted eighth.

The callers on the postgame show that night did not care for this strategy.

by jbrocato on Jul 25, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i could be wrong, but i think there have been a bunch of times where

the cards used guys like chris duncan in the 2 hole…not exactly a bat handler type

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Jul 25, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Billy Beane gets far too much credit

it is nice he broke down the barriers that has allowed many of the James disciples that deserve to get in the game involved. But I think now he has set a precedent that allows him to keep selling high and continuously rebuild the team year after year while continually keeping his payroll down. He is a part-owner now and this can also be in his best interest to build his bank account as well.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 25, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they are building for a strong club whe their new mallpark opens

Beane is understood by his fans, which is huge

however, i still hear media people snipping at him constantly…

funny too… compare beloved Minnesota’s post-season record against the A’s… even though lack of fundametals and small ball was supposedly what killed oakland in the playoffs

by royalsreview on Jul 25, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you read TLR's comment on steroids?

We now know that a lot of his former players were long term juicers. A reporter asked him about this. His response was along these lines, “I still don’t believe those guys used steroids. No one has ever proven that McGuire used. I think they were clean. I don’t want to talk about this any more.”

I don’t think I would like TLR. I just can’t stand people who are full of shit, know they are full of shit, and yet pretend they are not full of shit.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Jul 25, 2008 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oddly enough

I am reminded of Chuck Tanner.

“Gosh, I had no idea anything like that was going on in my clubhouse. Guys taking drugs? I don’t believe it.”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 25, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Braun is a FREAK OF NATURE

The guy last night gets a bunt single, a triple and a Homer to the opposite field.

Who cares about RBI's, how many HDB's you got?

by kcscoliny on Jul 24, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's giddy?

I’m giddy!!!!!!!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am......but some of it comes from watching the Cardinals lose too....

they get hour-long postgame shows to whine/complain/be the greatest post-game show ever.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, that makes it even better

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fairly hot

For a female basketball player.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, if she was a tennis player

We’d be all “YUCK”

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also...

carlos marmol’s arm is set to fall off in about a month

by royalsreview on Jul 25, 2008 12:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the game was fun!

Who wants a pink hat, because I will never be caught dead wearing it. NHZ? Wildthang?

Listen to the MUSTN'Ts, child Listen to the DON'Ts Listen to the SHOULDN'Ts, The IMPOSSIBLEs, the WON'Ts Listen to the NEVER HAVEs Then listen close to me-- Anything can happen, child, ANYTHING can be --Shel Silverstein

by loyal2theroyals on Jul 25, 2008 1:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One of my friends really wants one

and I promise that it’s not actually me.

by minda33 on Jul 25, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i may be able to arrange this

I detest pink hats for teams that do not have red (or pink as it is) as a color. The one exception is for girls 5 and under. They’re still cute enough to wear the pink stuff and get away with it.

Listen to the MUSTN'Ts, child Listen to the DON'Ts Listen to the SHOULDN'Ts, The IMPOSSIBLEs, the WON'Ts Listen to the NEVER HAVEs Then listen close to me-- Anything can happen, child, ANYTHING can be --Shel Silverstein

by loyal2theroyals on Jul 25, 2008 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have really disliked the trend of team paraphernalia in non-team colors

I see red, blue, green, plaid, etc. Yankee gear everyday. So much for the vaunted Yankee tradition.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 25, 2008 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've seen it a lot in college/university wear as well

go into any bookstore on a campus and you can find shirts of virtually any color. It is fine in filling out a wardrobe, but doesn’t really show support of your team. Will, no pink RR shirts, please!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib