48-59
by Freneau on Jul 29, 2008 12:45 AM EDT
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PrintWhat a lovely night. Aside from the considerations of late-inning drama and opponent, possibly the best Royals game of the year. In a way, at least offensively, it was akin to the way a team like Italy can play in soccer: 88 minutes of ineffectual play but with two minutes of world class brilliance that prove to be the difference.
- This is the kind of start from Greinke we've been dreaming about for... what... five years now? Seven innings plus, with eleven strikeouts and only one walk. Please, everyone, remember nights like this when Greinke is a Cub in two years.
- Jose Guillen was brutal afield, but made up for it with a much needed home run in the first. Sure, he struck out his next two times up, but who keeps track of things like that.
- Alex Gordon homered. Against a lefty. Cool. Perhaps it was being in the House That Eric Chavez Sometimes Inhabits that motivated him to conquer his platoon demons. Who knows...
- No strikeouts from Soria in the 9th, but another effortless display nonetheless. Although I remain in favor of converting him to starterdom, should that happen I'm going to miss his ninth inning performances. He's like, to use a Bill Simmons-ism, reading Bill Simmons pre-2004.
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FIRST!
WE WIN WE WIN!
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Jul 29, 2008 12:47 AM EDT reply actions
he thought he was the first one to post a message.....but looks like you beat him
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 29, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
according to the times...
we tied!
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Jul 29, 2008 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
The ace is back
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:49 AM EDT reply actions
yes...thats very good to see...
didnt get to watch the game…but listened to the last couple innings…and…was anyone shocked when Grudz hit into the DP? I called it. secondly, it worked out, but where trey brought in ram ram…was a perfect situation to take advantage of having one of the best closers in baseball…and he didnt…that kills me. not all negative though…good to see the young guys hitting…billy continuing it and hopefully gordo starting it
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you call Grudz's 3 doubles in a recent game?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
nope...if you're good, you're supposed to do that once in awhile...
but if youre good, you’re supposed to also hit a sac fly once in awhile…or hell, even strike out
whatd you think of the non soria usage in the 8th?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
He does do that once in a while
That’s why he’s been a very good hitting 2B for the Royals this year and every year he’s been with the team.
I really don’t have a problem with not bringing Soria in in the 8th. Ramirez has been dominant this year. Very good ERA, FIP, K/9. If Soria were the only very good reliever in the pen, then I’d go with him in the 8th, but there’s every reason to have a lot of confidence in R.Ramirez in that situation.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
and he faced jack cust,
jack cust either homers, walks, or strikesout. And Ram-Ram has only given up like 2 HR’s this season? maybe 1?
yes...he's been very good...
but i just think when you have soria out there…you use him in situations like this….one extra base hit…we’re tied….homer, we’re down…
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
R. Ramirez actually gets more K/9 this year with a lower FIP
I actually think R. Ramirez is better for runners on situations than Soria. Or at least arguably as good for those kinds of situations.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
how many of the A’s are real major leaguers?
Sometimes you get beaten by good teams and sometimes you beat bad teams
If we get a full L for losing to the Bosox, we get a full W for beating the A’s (who are over .500, by the way).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i had the same thoughts though...
they have a lot of guys that i’ve never heard of…or know arent great prospects
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
With save # 28 tonight
Joakim Soria has become the Royals’ saving-est reliever since Roberto Hernandez had that many in 2001.
Next up, Jeff Montgomery’s 36 in 1998.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Maybe if he blew more saves, they'd move him into the rotation
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
if they are thinking about keeping him closing...
then they HAVE to change how they use him…like tonite….he should be throwing 110 innings a year rather than 60
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Closers rarely go more than 1 inning
And when you’ve got guys like Ramirez, Nunez and/or Mahay well rested, there isn’t a lot of call for him to go more than 1 inning.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
just b/c they rarely do it, doesnt make it smart....
the best guys should be used in high leverage situations…it doesnt get much more high leverage than the 8th tonite…and he can still close it out in the 9th
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I would also use closers in a very non-traditional way
I would love to use the best reliever in the highest leverage situations, but no manager does that. None. It would be great, but that is not the world in which we live.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
But we should be the first
Teams like us need to be cutting edge. And hip.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 29, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
that's why I signed up
I said in the open thread I was going to hunt down Trey. Why NOT bring in Soria there? But it all worked out. Hillman knows what he’s doing…
Why not bring in R. Ramirez there?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
b/c soria is a shit ton better
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Ever looked at their stats?
R. Ramirez has the better K/9 and FIP this year. Arguably, he’s been as dominant as Soria this year. There really is no basis for your “shit ton” qualifier.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
soria is better in your favorite stat...FIP by a pretty good margin...
and 49/46 and 53/49 is virtually equal….got any real stats to prove your point?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
According to fangraphs, Ramirez has the better FIP
Before this game:
Ramirez 2.31
Soria 2.95
Better K/9, better FIP, fewer HR/9. Those stats aren’t good enough for you? What would you like?
I’m not saying Ramirez is better. I’m saying he’s been at least as dominant this year (and is more likely to get a K (by a little) and less likely to give up a HR. Wouldn’t those things be important when facing Cust?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
i did look at the wrong column on the fip...my bad...
but i still want my best guy in there in that situation…and that is soria….but nights like tonite do make me alot more comfortable for when soria is in the #2 spot in the rotation next year instead of in the pen throwing 3 innings/week
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I can understand you wanting Soria in there
But I just can’t see anyone being too disappointed or too upset when Hillman goes with a guy who has been just as dominant this year and who matches up particularly well against Cust.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
if we're going to lose a game in that situation...i just want them to beat our best...
i dont want to lose a game with soria sitting on his thumbs out there when theres a perfect situation for him to throw
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Hillman chose the right guy in that situation
A strong case can be made for Ramirez there. Therefore, it’s hard to complain about that decision. And this isn’t from someone who loves to defend Hillman. I disagree with a lot that Hillman does.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Reality check
I’m not at all disagreeing with your assertion—but at the same time, it’s an irrelevant distinction unless we think Hillman actually brought Ramirez in for those reasons. He went with Ram-Ram because it was the eighth inning; you know it, I know it, the world knows it.
As you say, it’s the times in which we live.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
My argument isn't really a defense of Hillman
It was a defense of the move. It was a sound move, even if Hillman did it for the wrong reason. I don’t mind criticizing Hillman. But I wait for him to make actual mistakes before I criticize him. He makes enough; I don’t have to wait long.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I know.
And I’m not suggesting Hillman should be criticized for it. I’m just suggesting we shouldn’t exactly praise him for stumbling into the right call, either. ;)
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
I'm not really praising him
...except to say that he had two really good options in that situation, and he chose one of them, so there really isn’t much to complain about. Actually, he had three good options in that situation because Mahay would have been a pretty good choice, considering that Cust has hit considerably worse against LHP than RHP.
Again, I have no problem with criticizing a manager…when he genuinely screws up.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 4:25 AM EDT up reply actions
RamRam isn't a bad decision
there but I don’t know why Trey waited so long. Why make Zack sweat? The minute he walked E.P. I would’ve yanked him. He was gassing around 94-97 pretty much most the night had owned E.P. with 3 straight K’s and he walked him on 5 pitches. It was obvious he was all done I don’t know why he left him against Suzuki who he didn’t get out in his previous 3 ab’s.
All that said GREAT WIN nice to see Zack is Back.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
Would he then be available for each of the next two games?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
how many times have they used him 4 days in a row?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Not many
And it has affected his effectiveness when he’s been used too often.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
he has given up 2 runs....
in one outing…when used back to back days….not really helping your argument either
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Closer stats through 7/28
Quisenberry, 1983: 26 saves, 40 games finished, 92 IP, 1.76 ERA
Quisenberry, 1984: 27 saves, 43 games finished, 78 1/3 IP, 2.41 ERA
Quisenberry, 1985: 23 saves, 47 games finished, 79 1/3 IP, 2.84 ERA
Montgomery, 1992: 24 saves, 41 games finished, 52 1/3 IP, 1.89 ERA
Montgomery, 1993: 31 saves, 39 games finished, 58 IP, 1.71 ERA
Soria, 2008: 28 saves, 40 games finished, 47 IP, 1.53 ERA
Yes, I went there
As someone else pointed out, the match up was against Cust
And, as I’m sure we all know, Cust is likely to K or HR. So, wouldn’t it make sense to have the guy in the bullpen face him who gets the most K’s and gives up the fewest HR’s? That is R. Ramirez.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
4th times a charm i guess...FIP, K/9, soria overusage failed...
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so if you say "failed" then it's over?
gotcha. I guess stats aren’t important to you. That’s your right.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
2 out of your 3 stats showed nothing...equal K's and soria hasnt had
any more problems whatsoever being used back to back nights
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Stats
Not equal K’s. Similar K’s (with Ramirez having more K/9 by a little). Better FIP. Better HR/9. Better matchup against HR or strikeout hitter. The stats support Ramirez pretty well and certainly don’t show that Soria would have been a much better choice in that situation against that batter.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
the thing about ramon and his hr/9...
is that its NEVER been close to this before…he’s good, but this HR/9 is an anamoly i have to believe
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you know that he used to be with the Colorado Rockies?
They tend to hit a lot of HR’s there. He’s been pretty consistently dominant outside of Coors Field.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Just looked it up
Before this year, he gave up 1 and only 1 HR outside of Coors Field in his career. And in 49.1 IP this year, he’s give up 1 HR.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
how about tulsa and trenton
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
So what he did in the minors in 2005 is more telling that what he's done in the majors in 2006, 2007 and 2008?
You’re really stretching here.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
id say that matters...
game 7 world series…you’re going ramirez over soria?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
You'd say what matters?
You’d say that AA pitching in 2005 is more telling about the kind of pitcher he is than 134.1 MLB innings in 2006, 2007 and 2008? That’s absurd.
Game 7 world series. What’s the matchup? Cust in the 8th inning? Well, since it is the World Series, that’s impossible. Let’s say Dunn in the 8th inning. And let’s say that it is like this season in that Ramirez has been essentially as dominant as Soria all season getting more K’s and giving up fewer HR’s. Do I want Ramirez facing Dunn in the 8th? You bet. It’s hard to come up with a rationale for why Soria would be a better choice. Closing your eyes and saying “he’s our best” really isn’t good enough. Who is more likely to get the K and/or avoid the HR?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
i'll take the guy who pitches every game with the game on the line...
over ramirez…you have your opinion, i’ll have mine
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
So matchups are irrelevant?
And Soria certainly doesn’t pitch every game with the game on the line. He pitches in a lot of low and moderate leverage situations. In fact more of those than high leverage situations. Two to four run leads to start the 9th inning aren’t high leverage situations. Not to mention the times he comes in with a lead even bigger than that. Like just about every closer, he’s not used as a fireman. He’s not used “every game with the game on the line.” He just isn’t. In fact, like the vast majority of closers, he rarely comes into a game with runners on, much less with runners in scoring position.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Soria has more High Leverage PA/AB
against this year than Ram Ram and his numbers are better. RamRam was warmed up ready to go. All things being equal no one warmed up Game 7 I think one might get questioned pretty hard if he went with RamRam in a similar situation. Small sample size but a .740 OPS vs .471 says a little.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
no he didn't,
didn’t even show it on the highlights for the game. In fact they only showed up to the 7th when he was taken out. in the highlight.
ha ha...
‘not facing detroit or chicago helps as well’—zack
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:11 AM EDT reply actions
they dont have fsn kc im sure...
i just like how he throws his ass off tonite…and he decides to throw in there…well, the a’s kinda suck…compared to banny’s ‘i pitched really well tonite’ after giving up 6 runs
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that their lack of FSN KC
won’t prevent them from hearing about it. There’s this thing I’ve heard of called “the internet” where news seems to spread rapidly. I may have to check it out some day.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
Soria to Greinke: "I just saved your game, Zack"
Greinke to Soria: “Yeah, ok. Want a chipolte burrito?”
Ramirez to Soria:
No, actually I saved the game, Mexicutioner.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, but I saved your life Soria!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 29, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we are all missing the most important thing about tonight;
Soria just tied the record for most saves in a single season by a mexican-born pitcher. Its a proud day for mexico.
not for the other guys family
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Somewhere
Juan Acevedo is crying.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 29, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Most Important Thing tonight?
-Alex’s big night?
-Billy continuing to rake?
-Zack’s Domination?
-Kaaihue’s Promotion?
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
didnt know about kila...very good thing
but I’ll take billy b/c he was sooooooo bad earlier
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Did Kila get promoted?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Just saw your fanshot, doublestix
Anyone know how to say “the Savior” in Hawaiian?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Great game....
Temporarily, all is right with the world.
But, seriously….we needed to lock down Zack Greinke in May. Now, he’s this much more expensive.
2009 – $3.5MM
2010 – $5MM
2011 – $8.5MM
2012 – $10MM
2013 – $12MM
2014 – $12MM
2015 club – $14MM
This contract looks realistic. SIGN HIM AND SIGN HIM NOW!
After 2010
I get this eerie feeling that he will be a Cub by 2011. We can not let a talent of this caliber slip by the wayside. Especially if we trade him while his value is low for three .260/.300/.400 cornermen before the 2010 season. Remember, pitching is the currency of baseball….and always lands you slappy hitters (Callaspo, Gathright, Gload, Pena).
I just think we will be paying in the end, because of the reluctance on part of the front office to negotiate with Zack.
by Royals Nation on Jul 29, 2008 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a strong feeling that Moore has been talking with Greinke's agent this year
Hopefully Greinke’s agent is talking back. I doubt he’s completely dead set on testing the FA waters. Hopefully they are talking numbers and aren’t too far apart. Would love to get a deal done sometime this offseason.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
There was a quote
from Greinke a while back in which he said he would be willing to talk about a long-termer, if the team wanted to. Basically implying that they had not come to him yet…
Don't Stop Believing!
That's your inference, not Greinke's implication
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll find the qoute.
I believe he actually said they hadn’t contacted him yet…
Don't Stop Believing!
Issue three: Is it time to pursue a long-term deal with Zack Greinke?The Royals made the decision earlier this season that All-Star closer Joakim Soria isn’t a fluke. The result was a three-year contract extension that includes three option years.
Club officials, so far, have made no overtures toward Greinke, whose status as the rotation’s top gun just got further confirmation: He is opening the postbreak schedule, instead of Gil Meche, tonight against the White Sox.
"I would listen," Greinke said, "if they wanted to make an offer."
OK, so I had Greinke doing the implying, but that should have been attributed to Dutton. The premise is the same either way.
Don't Stop Believing!
That doesn’t mean that the Royals weren’t talking to his agent about a long-term deal at the time. And it also doesn’t mean that they haven’t talked to his agent since then. I’m not saying that they definitely are negotiating, but I think it is likely that they have been/are doing so.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
and it doesn't mean that they were.
And I’m saying that what I read is that Dutton disagrees with you. I find it very hard to believe that they have not had any preliminary discussions with his agent. It’s not like Dayton is Carl Peterson. I’m just saying that Dutton stated that “Club officials, so far, have made no overtures toward Greinke…”
That’s all.
Don't Stop Believing!
Ok
But we both know that Dutton doesn’t really know. The FO doesn’t tell Dutton everything they do and they don’t always tell him the truth.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and one more thing
Even if Dutton is right on the money, we don’t know what has happened since that was printed.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
we know that?
I think you’re inferring that. ;)
Don't Stop Believing!
touche
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
A Cub?
that would be a bad fit for someone who is as much of a flyball pitcher as Zack is.
For all we know, if he leaves KC, he could go to either Florida team and have a very good setting for his skills.
Speaking of the Cubs, when the hell will the MLB bring the Cubs back to KC? that would be a good interleague series for our attendence. Especially if they win the WS this year though some miracle.
Ya'll missed the most important thing last night....
Well, sort of…
Alex’s “Big game” was mentioned, but to be specific about it, he got TWO hits, including a HR on a 0-2 count. This is something that 2 months ago, AG was nowhere NEAR capable of. The fact that one of them was against a lefty just increases the magnitude of it.
I’m not saying the guy has turned the corner, but it just shows that those that are jumping off the bandwagon are doing so WAAAAAAAY too early.
Honerable mention was the dialed in approach of Billy @ the plate. He looks SO confident and relaxed right now it’s ridiculous to think he’s < 25 years old.
agreed
I’ve been noticing that Alex seems to be taking the ball the other way more. A few of his singles the last week or so have been to left, and he nearly hit one out to Left/left center the other night that Crawford caught at the wall. Then last night he he goes yard to left-center, which hasn’t happened since April (correct?) against the Chi Sox. If he starts hitting the other way with authority, pitchers will have to start coming back inside, and then he can try to pull the ball when the miss over the inner half. I like it.
I once tried to string together the combination, "Hot Shot Hit Foul". It didn't quite come out that way. -- Denny Matthews
Not to be a wet blanket
Greinke pitched really well, but lets remember the park and the team he faced.
Barry Zito won a Cy Young in that park.
Wet blanket
he struck out 11. He would’ve pitched well tonight if the game was played at Coors.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Simmons
“No strikeouts from Soria in the 9th, but another effortless display nonetheless. Although I remain in favor of converting him to starterdom, should that happen I’m going to miss his ninth inning performances. He’s like, to use a Bill Simmons-ism, reading Bill Simmons pre-2004.”
I was just saying the same thing to my buddy Hench. Soria reminds me of Brandon Walsh in Season 3 and 4 of 90210 when he really couldn’t go wrong. Then I guess the writers decided he was too perfect and had that gambling storyline. That nearly made me throw up in my mouth.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Soria vs R Ramirez argument
Guys, I think you two were arguing about the wrong thing. I was watching the game, and as soon as Greinke walked Patterson, I was screaming at the TV for Trey to remove him.
He looked gassed, and Ramirez was already warmed up. Can’t believe Trey left him in for not one, but two more hits! Ryan Sweeney is a fairly dangerous hitter as well, and I was relieved when he only hit a single.
Hillman was quoted in the Star today as saying Zack wasn’t tired – but he looked tired to me. Pitching to Patterson, he was missing up, and his fastballs suddenly were coming in at 92, 90, 89, then 88.
That’s enough griping, because we are supposed to be more positive and more post-happy after wins now : )
To me, the best thing I saw in the game was Gordon getting two hits off of a lefthander, including his first HR off a lefty this season. It was also his first 3 hit game in two months. More importantly, two of the three hits were not pulled – and that may be the best sign of all.
Butler is completely locked in. Could have gone 3 for 3, and also just missed another HR on a ball he destroyed, but triggered a bit early and hooked foul.
DDJ and German had good ABs, if not the greatest results. Aviles continues to impress. How about 14 for 30 when batting in the 1st inning? Pretty damn good.
Minor quibble: against lefties, I wish Trey would let Butler play 1B, thus freeing up DH for Olivo (or, due to his hamstring, for Guillen in this instance).
I agree
I think the bigger question was when Trey should have pulled Greinke. I’m a fan of giving relievers clean innings to start if you think the starter can’t go the whole inning. What point is there in leaving a starter out there to put a runner or two on so you can bring in the guy you could have brought in to start the inning. I would have preferred to pull Greinke after the 7th (to a mini-standing ovation) and let the dominant Ramirez (per NYRoyal) pitch the 8th and Soria the 9th.
I also agree on Billy at 1st. I can’t remember him costing us a game playing 1B, while I seem to distinctly remember Guillen’s inability to move in the field costing us one (because it was two days ago). Not to mention it has the added side affect of getting Gload out of the lineup. Now if only Olivo could learn to play the OF, we might have a fighting chance against decent lefties.
Gload has incriminating pictures of Trey
I have no other explanation as to why we can’t DH Guillen and let Bam-Bam play 1B when Guillen can hardly run. Then we are forced to take Guillen out of the lineup in the 7th for defensive purposes when he’s due to lead off the 8th. THAT’S WHAT THE DH IS FOR TREY!!!
Seriously, is Teahen injured or just in the dog house. Bench Teahen and yet Gload’s name is set in stone on the lineup card. I don’t get it.
by sconieroyal on Jul 29, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Great game to watch
The Ramirez vs. Soria debate is easy. Ramirez was already warmed up in the situation so he was the easy call. He is one of our best pitchers this year and if he blows it then they beat one of our best.
With 2 outs, Soria was starting to throw in case things went wrong.
The thing about it is, if you are going to gripe about anyone not being in there it should be that Mahay wasn’t. There were two lefties up and that is a perfect situation for him.
Anyways, Ramirez got the job done so there is no reason to debate.
by I need more Esteban on Jul 29, 2008 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
didnt he throw 2 on sunday?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
yea
and that is probably why he didn’t get put in. But if Soria throws 1 2/3 last night, does that mean he’s out for tonight’s game?
by I need more Esteban on Jul 29, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
probably...but its worth it to guarantee the one last night...
odds are…we lose tonite…no need for soria…thats just how it is…they’re an above 500 team, we win 40% of our games
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm confused why this argument
has gone on for so long. We did win last night, and RamRam did a great job. He’s the clear option in that situation, as a guy who’s more used to coming in with runners on base than Soria is. Soria for 5 outs would’ve worked too, but why bother parsing the move when Ramirez is so good too?
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
This was just an awesome win
Greinke’s outing was stellar…he looked like a completely different pitcher than the one who’s been struggling (relatively) lately. I really can’t say enough about Butler’s continuing to rake and Gordon’s opposite field home run off a lefty…both really encouraging signs. And Ramirez did an excellent job getting out of that jam in the 8th. Great game for the Royals.
Oh yes, and Guillen actually homered for the first time in a month. Thank you, Jose.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
hater
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
Jose deserves some jate
Overall, he really hasn’t delivered this year. I know he had that one hot streak, and I was supportive of him when he slumped so badly in April, but to have him hitting like a blind man with two broken arms AGAIN…it’s getting a bit old. His walk rate is microscopic right now, and he’s hardly ever working the count well.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
I wish Trey would keep him out for like a week
so he can heal up. Short term loss of power for long term gains down the road. He did have the home run last night and one good throw from the outfield, but everything else was painful to watch.
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
If Guillen's really hurting
he ought to sit out. But that’s not just Trey’s decision, that has to do with Guillen as well. Trying to play through an injury is gamer-y, it’s stupid because it hurts your chances of producing for the whole year.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
He should be on the DL and now that Kila is in Omaha
Shealy should be called up…its a pretty short flight from Tucson to Oakland.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 29, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
ya know...thats actually the teams choice....
but i’ll take the guy who is WILLING to play through the injury like jose…over the davey and sweeney method
jose cant walk or run and he’s missed like no time…davey missed games with bruises
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
And we've seen what playing through the injury has done to his hitting
DeJesus and Sweeney may not have shown enough grit for you, but it usually makes sense to sit a player when he’s injured and can’t play effectively.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
No,
it’s not only the team’s choice. Don’t BS me. If a player comes to the team and tells them that he can’t play well enough to produce because of injury, then I think the team would have a responsbility to listen to him. I think a lot of the time teams trust a player to a certain extent to make decisions on minor injuries.
Sweeney is a completely different case. He was so injury prone that he couldn’t be counted on. That’s not Guillen, who clearly has more of a nagging injury. DDJ…whatever, he missed games with bruises, eh? So what, he’s a wuss because of that or something? He’s produced when he’s been on the field. Maybe that has something to do with knowing when he needs a day off.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
who has the ability to put a guy on the DL?
and you’re telling me that davey isnt just as injury prone as Sweeney? He missed 80 games combined in 06-07 and is already down 15 this year. Its not on Jose that he’s still in the lineup…its not on Jose that our manager isnt smart enough to put jose at dh and billy in the field…
ha ha…knowing when he needs a day off…i wish i had a job that allowed me to take 1/5 of the days off over the past 3 years
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
and you’re telling me that davey isnt just as injury prone as Sweeney?
Does DeJesus’s games missed due to injury or days on DL come even close to Sweeney? Clearly not, so where in the world do you get this “just as injury prone as Sweeney”? He isn’t injured as often or as badly as Sweeney and doesn’t miss as many games.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, David plays at a much more injury prone position, you know, running into
fences and diving for fly balls. Sweeney gets injured swinging the bat
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 29, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
mike never got hurt until his age 28 season...
so yes, thats what im saying
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That's really very silly
Comparing chronic back injuries which kept Sweeney out most of multiple seasons to DeJesus who gets dinged up and has short DL stints every now and then. Your argument has no foundation.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
except for the fact that davey has been more injury prone through his age 28 season than sweeney was
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And this means he'll end up being as injury prone as Sweeney later in his career?
Only if he develops chronic back problems. Do you understand the difference between little dings, muscle strains, etc. as compared to chronic back problems? It’s not just a difference of degree (although the degree is huge); it’s a difference of kind.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
one major problem is more likely to be able to be fixed through surgery...
having no threshold for pain, weak muscles, etc are likely not fixable
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Sweeney’s one major problem was fixed? Major chronic physical problems (like Sweeney’s) are much worse than the minor things DeJesus has had to deal with. And you have no idea what DeJesus’s threshold for pain is or how weak/strong his muscles are. His history of non-major injuries may just be the product of bad luck. His injuries sure haven’t amounted to much over the last two years.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
you dont know those things either...
but id say based on history…my opinion is more likely to be correct
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure you think your opinion is more likely to be correct
We’ll agree to disagree.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
mine has some history on my side
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If your argument were just "he's somewhat injury prone and has lost some time due to injuries"
...then I would have agreed with you. Unfortunately, you went far beyond that and way off the deep end.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 29, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Response
who has the ability to put a guy on the DL?
The team, obviously. But are you telling me you don’t think the player-you know, the guy who is injured-doesn’t have some input on whether he’s hurt or not??
and you’re telling me that davey isnt just as injury prone as Sweeney? He missed 80 games combined in 06-07 and is already down 15 this year.
Yes, I’m telling you that. To say that DDJ, who is still a good starter at the MLB level who has gotten dinged up a lot in his career, is as injury prone as Sweeney, whose career was ruined by back problems, would be an absolutely ridiculous claim.
Its not on Jose that he’s still in the lineup…its not on Jose that our manager isnt smart enough to put jose at dh and billy in the field…
No, it’s not only on Trey. IF Guillen really is too hurt to produce, he and the organization both have a responsilbity to take steps to solve the problem. Maybe Guillen has already said something to Trey about and Trey won’t listen. Maybe Trey has already said something to Jose about it and Jose won’t listen. Either way, playing through an injury while not producing is a STUPID mvoe for concerned. There’s nothing macho about preventing yourself from healing while hurting the team, and there’s nothing gritty about telling your clearly injured player to suck it up.
ha ha…knowing when he needs a day off…i wish i had a job that allowed me to take 1/5 of the days off over the past 3 years
Okay, whatever. This isn’t a discussion about DDJ’s durability pre-2006, as far I’m concerned. Some guys have trouble staying healthy under the grind of a full season, and DDJ had that problem before 2007.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Jul 29, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ahem,
a “stupid move for all concerned” is what I meant in that third section.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
most people I know can take off 2/7 of the days over the
past 3 years…
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
well, you are exceptional
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
remember, being exceptional means that you
are the exception, not that you are better…
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
"Jose can't walk or run"
and it fucking HURTS the team. You can’t get by for too long when you have a statue in the outfield. Let him sit a week, get healed up, then he can play to his fullest potential…and to the fullest benefit of the team.
Look at the big picture. Lose him for a week now so he can hit his best when he rejoins the lineup, or have him playing at half-power for the rest of the season. Given his numbers in July…the 7-day DL seems like a good choice.
If only they had a 7-day DL in the majors
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 29, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer to put him on the 15 day DL, to make room
to call Shealy up.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 29, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
you have to love it when the young future of the organization all comes together at the same time…somehow, it just isn’t quite as fun when Gload, Grudz or Olivo is the hero.
My mother's basement is better than YOUR mother's basement!!
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 29, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Rgiht now
I’ll take any hero we can get, but having the younger players come through is always more fun, I agree.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
Definitely
The last two games have been REALLY encouraging. Aviles/Butler/Gordon 13 Hits 3 HR 6 R’s 7 RBI’s.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
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