48-59
What a lovely night. Aside from the considerations of late-inning drama and opponent, possibly the best Royals game of the year. In a way, at least offensively, it was akin to the way a team like Italy can play in soccer: 88 minutes of ineffectual play but with two minutes of world class brilliance that prove to be the difference.
- This is the kind of start from Greinke we've been dreaming about for... what... five years now? Seven innings plus, with eleven strikeouts and only one walk. Please, everyone, remember nights like this when Greinke is a Cub in two years.
- Jose Guillen was brutal afield, but made up for it with a much needed home run in the first. Sure, he struck out his next two times up, but who keeps track of things like that.
- Alex Gordon homered. Against a lefty. Cool. Perhaps it was being in the House That Eric Chavez Sometimes Inhabits that motivated him to conquer his platoon demons. Who knows...
- No strikeouts from Soria in the 9th, but another effortless display nonetheless. Although I remain in favor of converting him to starterdom, should that happen I'm going to miss his ninth inning performances. He's like, to use a Bill Simmons-ism, reading Bill Simmons pre-2004.
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he thought he was the first one to post a message.....but looks like you beat him
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on
Jul 29, 2008 12:56 AM EDT
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according to the times...
we tied!
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on
Jul 29, 2008 1:00 AM EDT
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Blue ribbons for both of you,
self-esteem for the win!
by minda33 on
Jul 29, 2008 1:01 AM EDT
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The ace is back
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 29, 2008 12:49 AM EDT 0 recs
yes...thats very good to see...
didnt get to watch the game…but listened to the last couple innings…and…was anyone shocked when Grudz hit into the DP? I called it. secondly, it worked out, but where trey brought in ram ram…was a perfect situation to take advantage of having one of the best closers in baseball…and he didnt…that kills me. not all negative though…good to see the young guys hitting…billy continuing it and hopefully gordo starting it
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 12:51 AM EDT
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Did you call Grudz's 3 doubles in a recent game?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 12:52 AM EDT
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nope...if you're good, you're supposed to do that once in awhile...
but if youre good, you’re supposed to also hit a sac fly once in awhile…or hell, even strike out
whatd you think of the non soria usage in the 8th?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 12:55 AM EDT
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He does do that once in a while
That’s why he’s been a very good hitting 2B for the Royals this year and every year he’s been with the team.
I really don’t have a problem with not bringing Soria in in the 8th. Ramirez has been dominant this year. Very good ERA, FIP, K/9. If Soria were the only very good reliever in the pen, then I’d go with him in the 8th, but there’s every reason to have a lot of confidence in R.Ramirez in that situation.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 12:58 AM EDT
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and he faced jack cust,
jack cust either homers, walks, or strikesout. And Ram-Ram has only given up like 2 HR’s this season? maybe 1?
by cfizzle on
Jul 29, 2008 12:59 AM EDT
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yes...he's been very good...
but i just think when you have soria out there…you use him in situations like this….one extra base hit…we’re tied….homer, we’re down…
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:00 AM EDT
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R. Ramirez actually gets more K/9 this year with a lower FIP
I actually think R. Ramirez is better for runners on situations than Soria. Or at least arguably as good for those kinds of situations.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:01 AM EDT
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Seriously
how many of the A’s are real major leaguers?
by Grace's Dad on Jul 29, 2008 12:49 AM EDT 0 recs
Sometimes you get beaten by good teams and sometimes you beat bad teams
If we get a full L for losing to the Bosox, we get a full W for beating the A’s (who are over .500, by the way).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 12:51 AM EDT
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i had the same thoughts though...
they have a lot of guys that i’ve never heard of…or know arent great prospects
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 12:52 AM EDT
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enough for them to have a better record than...
a lot of teams
by Warden11 on Jul 29, 2008 12:50 AM EDT 0 recs
With save # 28 tonight
Joakim Soria has become the Royals’ saving-est reliever since Roberto Hernandez had that many in 2001.
Next up, Jeff Montgomery’s 36 in 1998.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Jul 29, 2008 12:54 AM EDT 0 recs
Maybe if he blew more saves, they'd move him into the rotation
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 12:55 AM EDT
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if they are thinking about keeping him closing...
then they HAVE to change how they use him…like tonite….he should be throwing 110 innings a year rather than 60
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 12:56 AM EDT
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Closers rarely go more than 1 inning
And when you’ve got guys like Ramirez, Nunez and/or Mahay well rested, there isn’t a lot of call for him to go more than 1 inning.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 12:59 AM EDT
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just b/c they rarely do it, doesnt make it smart....
the best guys should be used in high leverage situations…it doesnt get much more high leverage than the 8th tonite…and he can still close it out in the 9th
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:00 AM EDT
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leverage
yea… Ram Ram actually ended up with a higher WPA tonight than Greinke
by royalsreview on
Jul 29, 2008 1:02 AM EDT
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Yes, I would also use closers in a very non-traditional way
I would love to use the best reliever in the highest leverage situations, but no manager does that. None. It would be great, but that is not the world in which we live.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:02 AM EDT
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But we should be the first
Teams like us need to be cutting edge. And hip.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Jul 29, 2008 10:19 AM EDT
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that's why I signed up
I said in the open thread I was going to hunt down Trey. Why NOT bring in Soria there? But it all worked out. Hillman knows what he’s doing…
by Warden11 on Jul 29, 2008 12:57 AM EDT 0 recs
Why not bring in R. Ramirez there?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 12:59 AM EDT
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b/c soria is a shit ton better
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:01 AM EDT
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Ever looked at their stats?
R. Ramirez has the better K/9 and FIP this year. Arguably, he’s been as dominant as Soria this year. There really is no basis for your “shit ton” qualifier.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:03 AM EDT
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soria is better in your favorite stat...FIP by a pretty good margin...
and 49/46 and 53/49 is virtually equal….got any real stats to prove your point?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:07 AM EDT
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According to fangraphs, Ramirez has the better FIP
Before this game:
Ramirez 2.31
Soria 2.95
Better K/9, better FIP, fewer HR/9. Those stats aren’t good enough for you? What would you like?
I’m not saying Ramirez is better. I’m saying he’s been at least as dominant this year (and is more likely to get a K (by a little) and less likely to give up a HR. Wouldn’t those things be important when facing Cust?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:09 AM EDT
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i did look at the wrong column on the fip...my bad...
but i still want my best guy in there in that situation…and that is soria….but nights like tonite do make me alot more comfortable for when soria is in the #2 spot in the rotation next year instead of in the pen throwing 3 innings/week
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:13 AM EDT
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I can understand you wanting Soria in there
But I just can’t see anyone being too disappointed or too upset when Hillman goes with a guy who has been just as dominant this year and who matches up particularly well against Cust.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:15 AM EDT
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if we're going to lose a game in that situation...i just want them to beat our best...
i dont want to lose a game with soria sitting on his thumbs out there when theres a perfect situation for him to throw
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:17 AM EDT
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I think Hillman chose the right guy in that situation
A strong case can be made for Ramirez there. Therefore, it’s hard to complain about that decision. And this isn’t from someone who loves to defend Hillman. I disagree with a lot that Hillman does.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:19 AM EDT
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Reality check
I’m not at all disagreeing with your assertion—but at the same time, it’s an irrelevant distinction unless we think Hillman actually brought Ramirez in for those reasons. He went with Ram-Ram because it was the eighth inning; you know it, I know it, the world knows it.
As you say, it’s the times in which we live.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on
Jul 29, 2008 3:27 AM EDT
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My argument isn't really a defense of Hillman
It was a defense of the move. It was a sound move, even if Hillman did it for the wrong reason. I don’t mind criticizing Hillman. But I wait for him to make actual mistakes before I criticize him. He makes enough; I don’t have to wait long.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 4:00 AM EDT
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I know.
And I’m not suggesting Hillman should be criticized for it. I’m just suggesting we shouldn’t exactly praise him for stumbling into the right call, either. ;)
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on
Jul 29, 2008 4:18 AM EDT
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I'm not really praising him
...except to say that he had two really good options in that situation, and he chose one of them, so there really isn’t much to complain about. Actually, he had three good options in that situation because Mahay would have been a pretty good choice, considering that Cust has hit considerably worse against LHP than RHP.
Again, I have no problem with criticizing a manager…when he genuinely screws up.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 4:25 AM EDT
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RamRam isn't a bad decision
there but I don’t know why Trey waited so long. Why make Zack sweat? The minute he walked E.P. I would’ve yanked him. He was gassing around 94-97 pretty much most the night had owned E.P. with 3 straight K’s and he walked him on 5 pitches. It was obvious he was all done I don’t know why he left him against Suzuki who he didn’t get out in his previous 3 ab’s.
All that said GREAT WIN nice to see Zack is Back.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on
Jul 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT
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(“Man, that Dusty Baker guy’s a genius, putting that Bonds character in the lineup!”)
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on
Jul 29, 2008 4:19 AM EDT
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Would he then be available for each of the next two games?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:04 AM EDT
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how many times have they used him 4 days in a row?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:05 AM EDT
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Not many
And it has affected his effectiveness when he’s been used too often.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:07 AM EDT
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he has given up 2 runs....
in one outing…when used back to back days….not really helping your argument either
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:08 AM EDT
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Closer stats through 7/28
Quisenberry, 1983: 26 saves, 40 games finished, 92 IP, 1.76 ERA
Quisenberry, 1984: 27 saves, 43 games finished, 78 1/3 IP, 2.41 ERA
Quisenberry, 1985: 23 saves, 47 games finished, 79 1/3 IP, 2.84 ERA
Montgomery, 1992: 24 saves, 41 games finished, 52 1/3 IP, 1.89 ERA
Montgomery, 1993: 31 saves, 39 games finished, 58 IP, 1.71 ERA
Soria, 2008: 28 saves, 40 games finished, 47 IP, 1.53 ERA
Yes, I went there
by BHWick on Jul 29, 2008 1:06 AM EDT 0 recs
As someone else pointed out, the match up was against Cust
And, as I’m sure we all know, Cust is likely to K or HR. So, wouldn’t it make sense to have the guy in the bullpen face him who gets the most K’s and gives up the fewest HR’s? That is R. Ramirez.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Jul 29, 2008 1:06 AM EDT 0 recs
4th times a charm i guess...FIP, K/9, soria overusage failed...
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:09 AM EDT
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Ok, so if you say "failed" then it's over?
gotcha. I guess stats aren’t important to you. That’s your right.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:10 AM EDT
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2 out of your 3 stats showed nothing...equal K's and soria hasnt had
any more problems whatsoever being used back to back nights
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:14 AM EDT
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Stats
Not equal K’s. Similar K’s (with Ramirez having more K/9 by a little). Better FIP. Better HR/9. Better matchup against HR or strikeout hitter. The stats support Ramirez pretty well and certainly don’t show that Soria would have been a much better choice in that situation against that batter.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:18 AM EDT
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Agreed,
Ramon vs. Jack Cust was our best choice. He gives up Less home runs than anyone else in our bullpen, and jack cust is a HR or a K. and a HR would of tied it!
by cfizzle on
Jul 29, 2008 1:19 AM EDT
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the thing about ramon and his hr/9...
is that its NEVER been close to this before…he’s good, but this HR/9 is an anamoly i have to believe
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:23 AM EDT
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Do you know that he used to be with the Colorado Rockies?
They tend to hit a lot of HR’s there. He’s been pretty consistently dominant outside of Coors Field.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:24 AM EDT
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Just looked it up
Before this year, he gave up 1 and only 1 HR outside of Coors Field in his career. And in 49.1 IP this year, he’s give up 1 HR.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:27 AM EDT
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how about tulsa and trenton
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:27 AM EDT
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So what he did in the minors in 2005 is more telling that what he's done in the majors in 2006, 2007 and 2008?
You’re really stretching here.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:30 AM EDT
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id say that matters...
game 7 world series…you’re going ramirez over soria?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:34 AM EDT
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You'd say what matters?
You’d say that AA pitching in 2005 is more telling about the kind of pitcher he is than 134.1 MLB innings in 2006, 2007 and 2008? That’s absurd.
Game 7 world series. What’s the matchup? Cust in the 8th inning? Well, since it is the World Series, that’s impossible. Let’s say Dunn in the 8th inning. And let’s say that it is like this season in that Ramirez has been essentially as dominant as Soria all season getting more K’s and giving up fewer HR’s. Do I want Ramirez facing Dunn in the 8th? You bet. It’s hard to come up with a rationale for why Soria would be a better choice. Closing your eyes and saying “he’s our best” really isn’t good enough. Who is more likely to get the K and/or avoid the HR?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:37 AM EDT
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i'll take the guy who pitches every game with the game on the line...
over ramirez…you have your opinion, i’ll have mine
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:40 AM EDT
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So matchups are irrelevant?
And Soria certainly doesn’t pitch every game with the game on the line. He pitches in a lot of low and moderate leverage situations. In fact more of those than high leverage situations. Two to four run leads to start the 9th inning aren’t high leverage situations. Not to mention the times he comes in with a lead even bigger than that. Like just about every closer, he’s not used as a fireman. He’s not used “every game with the game on the line.” He just isn’t. In fact, like the vast majority of closers, he rarely comes into a game with runners on, much less with runners in scoring position.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:43 AM EDT
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Soria has more High Leverage PA/AB
against this year than Ram Ram and his numbers are better. RamRam was warmed up ready to go. All things being equal no one warmed up Game 7 I think one might get questioned pretty hard if he went with RamRam in a similar situation. Small sample size but a .740 OPS vs .471 says a little.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on
Jul 29, 2008 8:56 PM EDT
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So, will Greinke get a webgem for that catch tonight?
justsayin
by BHWick on Jul 29, 2008 1:08 AM EDT 0 recs
no he didn't,
didn’t even show it on the highlights for the game. In fact they only showed up to the 7th when he was taken out. in the highlight.
by cfizzle on
Jul 29, 2008 1:10 AM EDT
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ha ha...
‘not facing detroit or chicago helps as well’—zack
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Jul 29, 2008 1:11 AM EDT 0 recs
wow
the A’s WILL BE FURIOUS TOMORROW NIGHT
I expect open warfare
by royalsreview on
Jul 29, 2008 1:13 AM EDT
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they dont have fsn kc im sure...
i just like how he throws his ass off tonite…and he decides to throw in there…well, the a’s kinda suck…compared to banny’s ‘i pitched really well tonite’ after giving up 6 runs
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:15 AM EDT
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that their lack of FSN KC
won’t prevent them from hearing about it. There’s this thing I’ve heard of called “the internet” where news seems to spread rapidly. I may have to check it out some day.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on
Jul 29, 2008 3:32 AM EDT
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These teams hate each other
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on
Jul 29, 2008 11:41 AM EDT
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Soria to Greinke: "I just saved your game, Zack"
Greinke to Soria: “Yeah, ok. Want a chipolte burrito?”
by BHWick on Jul 29, 2008 1:17 AM EDT 0 recs
Ramirez to Soria:
No, actually I saved the game, Mexicutioner.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Jul 29, 2008 1:19 AM EDT
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Yea, but I saved your life Soria!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Jul 29, 2008 10:20 AM EDT
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Ok
hope Zack is having more fun here than he had in 2005
by BHWick on Jul 29, 2008 1:22 AM EDT 0 recs
I think we are all missing the most important thing about tonight;
Soria just tied the record for most saves in a single season by a mexican-born pitcher. Its a proud day for mexico.
by cfizzle on Jul 29, 2008 1:24 AM EDT 0 recs
not for the other guys family
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on
Jul 29, 2008 1:28 AM EDT
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Somewhere
Juan Acevedo is crying.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Jul 29, 2008 10:20 AM EDT
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Most Important Thing tonight?
-Alex’s big night?
-Billy continuing to rake?
-Zack’s Domination?
-Kaaihue’s Promotion?
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Jul 29, 2008 1:35 AM EDT 0 recs
didnt know about kila...very good thing
but I’ll take billy b/c he was sooooooo bad earlier
TPJ...you're dead to me


