Gordon's Got to Go

by BlownSave on Jul 3, 2008 1:22 PM EDT Comment 23 comments

I don’t have too many problems with Trey Hillman at this point. I know there are those who are ready to jump on him for various reasons – many of which may or may not be valid – but I don’t think Hillman really has much to work with at this point in time. So I’m giving him a pass for now.

With that said, I really wish he’d take a look at moving Alex Gordon out of the three spot in the Royals lineup. The Royals offensive woes have been well chronicled, so I won’t add to it here. What I will point out are three statistics.

Stat #1: Alex Gordon has batted third 55 of the last 62 games through July 1.

Stat #2: Alex Gordon is batting .215/.340/.291 with 0 home runs when runners are in scoring position through July 1.

Stat #3: Alex Gordon is batting .230/.325/.426 from the third spot in the order through July 1 (265 PA).

Now, I’m not saying he will be more successful down in the order. I don’t know if he will or not. What I do know is that he sure as heck isn’t cutting it in the three hole over an extended period of time.

At this point, there are three possible replacements (in no particular order) at the three hole, in my estimation.

Option #1: Billy Butler

Yes, I know he is not hitting for a lot of power, but he is hitting – which is something Alex can’t say. Billy has missed a lot of time with the big league club, but he has shown positive signs when batting with runners in scoring position. He is one of only three players batting over .300 with RISP. He has more or as many hits with RISP than Mark Grudzielanek, Joey Gathright, Miguel Olivo and Ross Gload – all of whom have more plate appearance with RISP than Butler. Butler’s .378 slugging percentage is a concern, but I’d rather have a bunch of singles than no hits at all.

Option #2: John Buck

This is a sleeper option. John Buck has a 1.010 OPS with runners in scoring position in 62 PA. His 21 hits with RISP is only seven fewer than team leader Jose Guillen who as 111 plate appearances with RISP. Buck is on pace to set career highs in doubles, walks, batting average and on-base percentage this season. There are red flags with Buck, but he is at the moment one of the few guys who knows how to hit with runners on base.

Option #3: David DeJesus

RISP: .463/.508/.648 in 65 PA (5th most on team)
Men On: .405/.453/.560 in 97 PA

The issue here is determining who would hit in front of him. I would suggest leading off with Mark Teahen and then hitting Mark Grudzielanek second. Of course, that will never happen, but oh well. Heck, lead off with Aviles and hit Grudz second like we did when DeJesus was out for a couple of games. Just for the love of everything holy get Gordon out of the three hole.

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We do love to talk about lineups

I can’t get too excited about the lineup talk when we’re talking about whether a player hits 3rd or 5th/6th. The difference that this would make to expected runs scored is negligible, even if it were for the remainder of the season.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 3, 2008 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I see how it is

Where’s you post about how we need to move Grudz out of the five hole, huh?11!one

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Jul 3, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I really like the idea

Of Butler hitting second. DJ-Butler-Guillen-Gordon is probably how I’d put em.

Teahen has a .326 OBA. He’d have to raise that considerably for me to consider putting him in the upper half of the lineup.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 3, 2008 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

On another note

These RISP numbers are just such small sample sizes, that I can’t take them all that seriously. I think Joey Gathright is hitting like .600 with RISP, but I sure as heck don’t want him hitting cleanup.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 3, 2008 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Slappy is clutch

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 3, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gathright is hitting .240/.333/.240 with RISP

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=gathrjo01&year=2008

Blown Save

by BlownSave on Jul 3, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was joking about Gathright being clutch

And I would say that hitting in RISP (as opposed to in other situations) isn’t a particular skill.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 3, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to Retro.

Sorry for the mix-up.

Blown Save

by BlownSave on Jul 3, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see that you responded to Retro

I just wanted to make sure it is clear that I don’t believe Slappy is clutch. In fact, I don’t believe in “clutch”.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 3, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cool

I wonder if any other guy with regular PT has hit ALL singles with RISP.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 3, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMO Butler projects as more of a #3 hitter than Gordon if he develops a little more power.

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jul 3, 2008 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

might be true...

but i dont know at this point that gordon isnt a better option

by royalsreview on Jul 3, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon projects more as a #4 hitter

So I think it would make more sense to have Butler and his singles hitting in front of Gordon and his XBH power.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 3, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DDJ is probably the best option

that KC has currently

Billy at worst will be Sean Casey jr.

by kcscoliny on Jul 3, 2008 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why take him out of the leadoff spot?

The better option is to get less crappy hitters in the #8 and #9 spots.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jul 3, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about

discussing whether Gordon should be moved down in the lineup versus lefties only?

Take a look at his splits – they sure seem way higher than an average player, and his numbers vs lefties do not warrant batting 3rd. His numbers vs righties, on the other hand, are among the best on this team, so to me, he could hit 3rd vs righties.

I don’t have any objective data (sorry NYRoyal!), but it sure appears to me we have an entire roster full of guys with platoon splits way above average. I guess that can be expected with younger players? I don’t know. Some of the vets have ridiculously high splits as well (Olivo, Guillen), so who knows?

I wouldn’t have any objection to Hillman having 2 vastly different lineups, depending on whether we’re facing a lefty or a righty.

by loyal2sdad on Jul 3, 2008 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He's clearly a very, very good hitter vs. RHP

But it is really, really unimportant whether he bats 3rd or 6th. It just doesn’t affect run scoring much at all. The difference is negligible.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 3, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But shouldn't he be moved down just out of principle?

I completely agree that moving him isn’t going to change the outcome of games. But wouldn’t moving him down and telling him he’s got to get better with RISP be kind of like sending a player to the minors and telling him he needs to work on plate discipline? You know, just to clear his head and help him focus? Or am I completely ridiculous for thinking this (which I understand is highly plausible).

Blown Save

by BlownSave on Jul 3, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you asking if moving him down would have a positive effect on his psyche?

It might. On the other hand it might have a negative effect on his psyche (hurting his confidence, etc.). There’s lots of baseball cliches we could throw at this, half of them would say that moving him down would help him and the other half would say that moving him down would hurt him. All we can do is guess at how this would affect him psychologically.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Jul 3, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We could move Gordon down vs. lefties

to “take the pressure off” so he could work on learning to hit them, but I don’t know if doing that makes that much sense. I feel as if batting Gordon third is good because it ensures he will be among the team leaders in PAs and thus will be able to progress this year as much as possible.

Anyway, it’s kind of small beer…line-ups don’t make that much of a difference. I certainly would not move him against righties.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jul 3, 2008 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I was pimping for this last week

Just move him down against lefties. He still gets his reps, just not as often. Also, fewer ABs vs. lefties might improve his numbers just slightly and ward off rising (an unfair, in my opinion) fan impatience.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Jul 5, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs