Happy to Be Stuck With You?
Finally, not that you asked, but here's my Official Royals Review Trade Deadline Prediction Proclamation: Mahay, Grudzielanek and one stunner/out-of-nowhere guy (i.e. not Olivo) get shipped.
So much for that.
For weeks I'd been warming to the idea that Dayton might pull of a massive, franchise-altering (or so it would seem) move, in size and scope, something along the lines of Teahen, Olivo, DeJesus and a B prospect to San Diego for Cla Meredith, Paul McAnulty, a C prospect, and Brian Giles's expiring contract. As someone who devotes a large portion of their time writing about the same things, a trade like that would have been a boon for Royals Review, both in terms of my own enjoyment and in site traffic and activity, the sort of mega-deal that goes from looking brilliant to idiotic and back three or four times a year. Obviously, that didn't happen, and may never. We still know very little about Moore as a General Manager, and while he made a flurry of moves during his first year in charge, that culling was to be expected for a variety of reasons.
What wasn't expected, by this uninformed outsider -- does anything like the trade deadline expose our desperate ignorance and related desire to know more? -- or anyone else was that not a single trade would be made. Not one. Considering for a moment Dayton's memorable, though potential apocryphal dictum that pitching is the currency of baseball, it was stunning and bizarre to watch essentially an entire industry end up in the same position as the Royals: standing still. Pitching currency, perhaps, like the real thing, rests on a paradox: its only valuable if you're willing to part with it. Baseball is in a weird place right now: teams continue to spend millions each off-season on free agents while simultaneously valuing, perhaps over-valuing, their prospects and the dream of cheap labor. None of the moves this weekend, aside from most notably and most tellingly Ned Colletti's involvement in the Manny trade, was a pure veteran-for-prospects deal. If this dynamic holds, we may be in for a string of very boring deadlines. Unless a team is stupid or stacked (like the B
Returning to the boys in blue, it's impossible to know what offers Dayton pushed and what offers he eventually turned down when discussing, most obviously but not limited to, the man of the hour Ron Mahay. In something like the inverse of finding out about an unexpected pregnancy, all we know for certain in this case is that nothing happened. The significant caveats of ignorance aside, Dayton deserves at least mild criticism for failing to move some combination of Mahay, Nunez or even Ramon Ramirez. Reliever performance is extremely variable, potentially even inherently so, and in not selling high on the trio mentioned above, Dayton made an implicit bet that, for his guys at least, that won't be the case. Sadly, just looking around our own division, from the ever-changing fortunes of Juan Rincon, Rafael Betancourt, Jimmy Gobble, Joel Peralta, LaTroy Hawkins, Andy Sisco, Shingo Takautsu and on and on, we can see that it is.
Crucially, if Dayton is truly adept at putting together a bullpen, then he needs to fully leverage that skill rather than doing it once and standing still. Trade Ramon Ramirez now, then find the next version, along with another asset in your pocket. It would be an ironic, although not uncommon, bit of professional failure if Dayton merely turned his initial finds into fixed, high-priced known commodities. A case can be made that Nunez and Ramirez are too cheap to part with lightly and that they will be so for years to come. As for Mahay, unless the Royals think they desperately need him for 2009, it remains very difficult to see the point.
The hesitance to flip any of his relievers relates to another concern going forward: the roster isn't near good enough to see so little movement. Joey Gathright should have either been traded or offered an assignment to Omaha a year ago, for example. Not only that, but Moore has also voluntarily extended the Royal legacies of, most infamously, Ross Gload and Mark Grudzielanek. We've talked enough about Gload in the past few days, but we've long been resigned to his inexorable presence. Grudzielanek, on the other hand, has now been trade bait/trade rumor bair for three straight seasons, a staggering number. As a player, in the present tense, Grudzielanek isn't really a problem: he's hit .300/.340/.413 as a Royal with good defense and a mediocre health record. That line doesn't kill you at second base, but it also isn't pushing the Royals closer to contention. Essentially, its one spot in lineup where they aren't losing ground, which is an unsatisfying form of victory. Weirdly, he's "developed" into the team's #3 hitter, which, much as if I was named the best looking guy at a party, says more about his manager and his teammates than it does about him. Grudz is a hard-player to really get excited about as a fan: there is no positive arch here, either for him or the franchise. The ultimate stopgap. Watching Mark Grudzielanek is like wasting two hours watching Daylight on USA on a Saturday afternoon. Well, at least you weren't asleep.
Grudz is a batting average and doubles guy with no speed at this point in his very well-compensated life, and maybe that just isn't good enough anymore. Still, it's difficult to see him as much different than Ray Durham, who fetched cash and two minor leaguers from the Brewers. When Grudz signed with the Royals in December of 2005, did anyone, anyone think that he'd still be a Royal on August 1, 2008? 2008! After skipping from LA to Chicago to St. Louis (talk about a steady decline) it looked like Grudz had fully entered the Reggie Sanders/Greg Maddux postion of his career, only that never happened. By the time this season ends, he'll likely be north of 350 games played as a Royal, a significant number in his career history and the history of the franchise.
Mark Grudzielanek's Career
| Team | Games Played | |
| 1995-98 | Expos | 492 |
| 1998-02 | Dodgers | 585 |
| 2003-04 | Cubs | 202 |
| 2005 | Cardinals | 137 |
| 2006-08 | Royals | 335 |
And so, here we are. Mahay now, Nunez now, Grudzielanek now, Teahen now, Olivo now. Bannister now, Davies now.
If Joakim Soria, the eternal waiting for the Gordon/Butler breakout, and the days when Greinke starts aren't enough for you after 109 games, we do have one fascinating new thing to enjoy.
The final two months of the MItch Maier Era.
3 recs |
118 comments
Comments
Nice writing
The final two months of the MItch Maier Era.
It’s funny because it’s true.
On Grudz, now that we are all resigned to watching him bat third the rest of the year and to endlessly debating whether he will be offered arbitration, Moore will blindside us next week by trading Grudz in a waiver wire deal for a hard-throwing A ball relief prospect.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If some contender loses their second baseman in August, a Grudz trade is definitely possible
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think the two most likely scenarios are
1. He’s traded, or he’s claimed on waivers and Moore lets him go; or
2. He’s signed to an extension.
A playoff-bound team may have interest in him as a bench player too, but would want to wait until the end of August to save the salary and/or problem of an unhappy Grudz sulking on the bench.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or signing him to a two year extension.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 1, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
They happen two ways. First, the guy clears waivers, and then he can be traded to anybody. Second, he gets claimed, and the team with the highest priority works out a deal for him (which, for prospects, would have to be guys not on the 40-man roster who would have to clear waivers themselves).
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many happened last season?
I wanna say like only one or two…
by royalsreview on Aug 1, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it is likely, but it is a possibility
And if he doesn’t get traded, is it a big deal? We wont’ get much for him, which we have all recognized all season. And is he stunting the development of Esteban German? Will Callaspo be ready for everyday duty at all this season? How much more PT would Callaspo get with Grudz gone as compared to Grudz still here?
I don’t think it should hurt us so badly to have Grudz still on the team. There really isn’t a lot of downside to him playing out the string for the Royals this year. Or am I missing something?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were two on August 31 alone
I did not go through the entire month, but it looks like there were maybe a dozen deals and waiver claims. There were no big names of course, but some “names” nonetheless: Steve Trachsel, Russell Branyan (twice), Craig Monroe, Emiliano Fruto, Jeff Conine, Wily Mo Pena, Esteban Loaiza (waiver claim), Joe Kennedy (waiver claim, RIP); Ramon Ortiz.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I think the net benefit from trading Grudz would be small
I would do it, just as I would have done it before the non-waiver deadline. But it seems like a pretty small matter whether we have Grudz for the final month or month and a half, or whether we don’t have him and we have some marginal prospect added to the system.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the end of the month
I would bet Moore has made up his mind on whether to bring Grudz back. If he wants him back, he will not trade him. But if he decides it is time to move on, he will take what he can get for him, as he would not risk offering arbitration (assuming Grudz would qualify as a Type B free agent) and he could get at least the proverbial live arm for him.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be surprised if the Royals re-sign Grudz to another one-year deal
It is possible, but I think unlikely. I have a feeling that Moore wants to go out and get a SS and move Aviles to 2B. This could either be a FA SS (hopefully not) or a trade that gets a good SS prospect. If it is the latter, then I think Moore would be willing to stick with Aviles for another non-contending year before the SS is ready for full-tim duty in the majors. In that scenario, German and Callaspo would play second base. But who knows, maybe Moore is still in love with Grudz and wants him for another age-defying year. That would definitely be a mistake.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be nice if Griffey didn't work out in Centerfield
then maybe the Sox would need a 2b so they could move Ramirez to CF. Alot easier to find a emergency 2b as opposed to a CF.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 1, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep there were actually
a fair number deal made in August last year. It always gums up my “deadline in review” article.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Aug 1, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Moore unwilling to trade relievers?
Elmer Dessens and Octavio Dotel would say that he is willing to trade relievers. Now, of course those were midseason trades of players with expiring contracts. But should he be eager to trade pitchers who are under team control for multiple years. In the case of Mahay, I think he should be very willing to trade him because he’s only under one more year of team control. But it has to be the right offer. It can’t just be any marginal prospect. Who knows what he was really offered for Mahay.
But what about Nunez and Ramirez? I see both of those pitchers as very good setup men both now and for the future. I reject the notion that you never have any idea what you’re going to get from a reliever, so you might as well sell high on any and all of them. Both Nunez and Ramirez have the tools and performance to show that they are genuinely good. I think we can expect good things from them in the future. Now, does this mean that they are untouchable? Of course not. I’m more than willing to trade either (or maybe even both) of them for the right price. But it has to be the right price. I sure as hell wouldn’t have given either of them up for a guy like Brandon Moss (with his 4th OFer projection).
As to the larger issue, I agree that Moore needs to start spending the currency of baseball. I think that’s the kind of thing which is more likely to happen in the offseason than at the trade deadline.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dessens was not an expiring contract
Baird signed him to a two year deal, Dayton traded him just four months after he signed in KC.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 1, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, I didn't remember that
So apparently Moore is willing to trade relievers, even when they don’t have expiring contracts. He just needs to be offered a deal that he thinks is worth it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good reminder on those guys...
Although Elmer wasn’t a “Dayton guy”... there’s still the Dotel experience.
I wonder if Dayton was simply not that impressed with Dotel, and or realized he didn’t need him as a capital C Closer.
by royalsreview on Aug 1, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dayton got a decent offer for Dotel and knew that Dotel wouldn't be a Royal the next year anyway
If Moore didn’t get any really good offers for Mahay, then he might as well keep him and then deal him next July. If all you’re going to get is a mediocre prospect anyway, you might as well keep him for another 12 months.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he may have thought he had a deal with the Red Sox
until the last second.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to today's St. Louis Post-Dispatch
The Cardinals put all their eggs into trying to get Fuentes, then when they were unsuccessful, it was too late to try for Mahay.
I am glad Mahay is still a Royal.
by jbrocato on Aug 1, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of your finest posts Will
Kudos.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 1, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well written.
I really don’t have a problem with not trading anybody. He has shown in the past a willingness to trade relief pitchers (see above) which points to the possibility that he just wasn’t being offered enough. Trading someone just to make a trade is pointless.
As far as Grudz go, who wanted him? He’s up in age, and for everything that was mentioned in this article, isn’t a great asset. NYRoyal (I think) brought up an excellent point yesterday about his knees being so bad, that we rest him frequently in Minnesota, so the Twinkies are out. And let’s be honest: he’s not blocking anyone.
What bothers me most about this current roster is not the lack of trades, but rather the lack of demoting/benching players who are completely sucking: There is zero reason for TPJ to be on the major league roster. Gload, as mentioned, should not be playing everyday. Let’s see if Butler can play everyday. Or Shealy. Or anyone else. I’m also waiting for our manager to bench players who are hurt that don’t have the first name “David.”
The fact is that the Royals have so many holes on this roster, they are going to need a lot of help: and most of that help is not going to come in a deadline trade with expiring contracts. The help is going to come with FA signings, developing minor league players, drafting well, and trading guys who are already good for guys who most likely are going to be good. Dejesus, I’m looking your way…
by nkkc on Aug 1, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you can add Teahen to that crowd as well
I share your frustration. Its starting to become kinda boring watching what seems like the exact same crew night after night.
by royalsreview on Aug 1, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would you like done about Teahen this season?
To see him benched so that we can give non-prospects like Maier or Lubanski a look? I’d rather see if Teahen can get his SLG up to .425 and have his average production in the lineup than hope that magically a 4th/5th OFer prospect like Maier or Lubanski pulls an Aviles (despite unimpressive play in AAA). “Shaking up the lineup” and change for change sake merely because we’re frustrated doesn’t really make sense.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
two issues here, at least for me
the first of which is just the fan’s daily experience of following the team… i dont really believe that “shaking things up” really makes players do better or anything, but, from a sheer entertainment perspective, at least its different. obviously, this should be secondary to the actual development of the player and the team’s needs.
however, in the case of teahen, like gload and gurdz, he doesn’t seem like a developing player, he isn’t a AAAA non-prospect who is being given 400 PAs (or 50, as it usually is) to prove himself… he is what he is, and i think we have to resign ourselves that this is basically it for him. objectively, i can grant that he shouldnt be cut or anything (I suppose) but it is fairly blah watching him at this point
by royalsreview on Aug 1, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Teabag
He’s got a lot of skills, but they don’t add up to any particular kind of player.
He can play defense at positions where they need more hitting.
He’s a good baserunner without the speed to be a big-time stealer.
He’s got patience without power or average.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 1, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a very average player. That's the kind of player he is.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey I like him
I’ve just found that particular skill set a bit poignant, It’s not like he sucks at everything, so that he’s just average all the way around. He’s really good at some stuff (baserunning, controlling the strike zone, etc.), but they don’t add up to an above average player or any particular kind of really useful specialist. That’s all.
I still think there might be potential for him to be a 20 HR guy (not as likely as two years ago, but it could happen, he’s just 26), or a guy who can OPS over .800 against lefties as a platoon guy. So who knows?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 1, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray for the Age 27 = breakout theory
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Aug 1, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume I'm being mocked despite my qualification
I deserve it
sniff
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 1, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but, from a sheer entertainment perspective, at least its different. obviously, this should be secondary to the actual development of the player and the team’s needs.
Yeah, if I’m a manager, I’m not going to look at Teahen and think, this guy is a pretty mediocre player, so let’s give the fans a different experience by playing someone else who is worse. I think what helps the fan experience most is having the best players on the field who give the team the best chance to win.
however, in the case of teahen, like gload and gurdz, he doesn’t seem like a developing player, he isn’t a AAAA non-prospect who is being given 400 PAs (or 50, as it usually is) to prove himself… he is what he is, and i think we have to resign ourselves that this is basically it for him. objectively, i can grant that he shouldnt be cut or anything (I suppose) but it is fairly blah watching him at this point
I agree that he is what he is. He’s basically an average baseball player. His career MLB OPS+ is 97 (including one year significantly above that and one significantly below). His corner OF fielding is above average. His arm and base running are well above average. So, he’s average but not what the Royals need from a corner OFer. You don’t react to that by benching him in favor of worse players for whom there is absolutely no reason to believe they would be any better (Like Maier, Lubanski and Costa). You react to that by going out and getting a corner OF upgrade in the offseason.
If you think it is fairly blah to watch Teahen, imagine how much worse it would be to watch Maier, Lubanski or Costa out there. Would worse play be more exciting?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teahen's below average at all of the positions he can play
Average MLB OPS+ 2008 by positions that Teahen can play:
1B 116
3B 108
LF 110
RF 111
DH 104 (Vidro/Dellucci/Butler factor)
His glove plays okay in RF and probably 1B, but not nearly enough to make for the offensive difference.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. I'm saying he's an average overall baseball player
I’m not saying that he’s good or that he should be the Royals starter in the future at any corner position. Weeks ago, I made a post saying that he should be a super-utility player who can back up LF, RF, 1B and 3B. A player that hits like Teahen is more than acceptable for that kind of role. He is what he is. And that includes being better than the alternatives within the Royals organization.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made the same suggestion in the Who's the 4th OF? post awhile back.
Assuming Teahen is not traded/non-tendered.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals desperately need a good hitting corner OFer
...and then moving Teahen to a super-utility/4th OFer role.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or two . . .
Guillen mostly to DH . . .
Butler mostly to 1B
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait a minute
what about Gloadie, or Shealy?
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 1, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but, when healthy
Guillen is a pretty good outfielder. I still like Butler at first and do something about a DH. So, one corner outfielder, one person for DH/1B
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 1, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he's pretty bad in the OF, not Manny-Burrell-Ibanez bad, but stilll pretty bad
All of the advanced metrics had him around -15 runs last year.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but at least he hits about as well as those guys!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 1, 2008 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would work
They need upgrades at corner OF and 1B. Two good corner OFers would work. But Guillen might really lose his shit if he were moved to primarily a DH role.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is already playing there 1/3 of the time
His legs would appreciate it, and you could still play him there every five games when Hochevar starts.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because of injury, and he knows it
When he’s in pain and his mobility is limited, I’m sure he’s happy to DH. But I don’t expect him to be injured and in pain all of next year. And if he’s DHing 80% of the time, I think there’s a serious risk that he’d be really pissed and cause some serious problems. It’s something to consider.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guillen is always in pain
Some people just choose not to hear the cries for help.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If only DHing would easy his pain
...or calm the demons inside him.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Guillen said to Trey
“You promised me, Trey, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of this season there has only been one set of footprints in the sand. Why, when I needed you most, have you not been there for me?”
Trey replied, "The times when you have seen only one set of footprints, my child, is when I carried you."
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
life is about hoping for something better
I know Mark isn’t getting better. I’m pretty sure Costa and Lubanski won’t be good/great either, but there’s always the chance, however small.
Again, I fully admit that is not what the organization SHOULD do. I’m not saying Hillman should manage to make fans less bored. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t boring either.
by royalsreview on Aug 1, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
But I think you’d quickly get bored/angry with Maier/Lubanski/Costa suckitude.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've given Teahen three years man
by royalsreview on Aug 1, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least you have something to show for it
While not exciting, he provides some production. I would not get much excitement from worse hitting from M/LC.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teahen's a guy
that’s the best you get from any of the other options.
We all hoped for more, but them’s the breaks sometimes.
However, that puts an inordinate amount of pressure on Gordon and Butler [and soon, Moustakis and Hosmer] to be much more than that.
If Teahen was closer to what we saw after the return in ‘06 we wouldn’t have all the questions about Gordon, that’s for sure. But now either Gordon or Butler – and maybe both- HAVE to be the man for this franchise’s immediate upside to be more than 81-81.
. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche
by vegasroyals on Aug 1, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's the latest on callaspo?
i want the TPJ era to end.
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Aug 1, 2008 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they've released any news on him since they put him on the DL
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he has fallen in love with Sandra Bullock
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, this is a case where no news is really not good news.
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Aug 1, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it depends on how much you like Sandra Bullock
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was actually debating her the other day with a friend...
i’m on the side that i think she was underrated as a looker…
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Aug 1, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think she's very attractive
Probably past her peak, but definitely a looker.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a friend who had a theory that she and Keanu Reeves are the same person
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 1, 2008 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that's cold.
Sandra Bullock would have been WAY better as Constantine, come on.
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Aug 1, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see her as more of a Johnny Utah type
Yup
Bodie! I AM AN EFF-BEE-EYE AGENT!!!
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 1, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is a case where no news is no news
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 1, 2008 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully his rehab (if that's what he's been doing) will be over soon
And he’ll start a rehab assignment in Omaha in August in time for him to get back to KC by Labor Day.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
does that mean that he would be part of the September call up?
The reason I asked is that an earlier post suggested that TPJ could be DFA’d when that happens, but I guess it wouldn’t happen in September. Do people think that Pena won’t be back next year? These crappy shortstops have a history of hanging around this franchise.
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 1, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't much care about TPJ this year
His little playing time isn’t hurting the team much. DFAing him would even add one win for the Royals. I’d be happy to lose him, but it’s no big deal. I have no idea if he’ll be a Royal next year. Moore and Hillman might want a good defensive replacement for SS, particularly if Aviles is the starting SS. As long as he is merely a backup, I don’t think that is awful. Although Moore could certainly find a good defensive replacement who hits better than TPJ.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that... He really isn't killing us now...
I just want pay back for the way he killed us when he was actually playing (aside from all the runs he saved, of course).
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Aug 1, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then send him a chain letter
Or have 100 pizzas delivered to his house. That’d show him.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd settle for just a chance to kick him really hard in the nuts...
where tpj happens.
by blue bandwagon on Aug 1, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been told recently that you can't blame a player for how he performs
So maybe you shouldn’t.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you have succombed to Joel's superior logic and reasoning
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 1, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way keep him on the team all year
and send him to the Summer league as a pitcher.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 1, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant Winter league
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 1, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't Joel...oddly enough
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
P.S. Thanks RR - now I have Huey Lewis and the News stuck in my head
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 1, 2008 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Will, I have to say I respectfully disagree....
I think I am the lone dissenter, but I take solace in the fact that GMDM didn’t move Mahay, Nunez, Ramirez, et all for the sake of moving them, as past regimes have done.
One obvious reason for this, is none of the contracts are expiring (save Grudz) at seasons end, so there wasn’t the “trade him for something, or get nothing” attitude that was taken in such past franchise killers as the Damon trade, or more recently the Dotel trade last year.
If it comes to light, that the Phillies deal for Mahay was on the table as reported and GMDM nixed it, I’ll change my tune.
Trading guys like DdJ, or Teahen (as in the SD trade that you laid out) is the type of trade, that, in my opinion, is best served happening in the off season, if something like that were to ever take place. As sad as it is to say, a big reason for this is the general backlash that Joe & Jane Blow fan would have toward the organization if that took place mid season. Those that post on this board, and true seamheads would understand the potential, franchise turning magnitude of a trade like that, but that makes up about what, 10% of ticket buying Royals “fans”? Keep in mind, I am playing devils advocate a little bit there, because like I said, I see the value in trades of that ilk.
I am happier keeping our roster current, as opposed to letting Mahay, Nunez, Grudz or whoever go for some middle of the road, Lumsden types. The one move I would have liked to seen made would have been Gload traded for anything, just to give Shealy an opportunity for 2 months @ 1B…
by GoBabies!! on Aug 1, 2008 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think many people agree that we shouldn't have just traded players for the sake of doing something or getting any return for them
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then I'll, make the assumption
that I have more faith in GMDM than the majority.
I’m working under the assumption that there wasn’t anything more than ‘just another guy’ available for our guys.
by GoBabies!! on Aug 1, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is a safe assumption
I don’t think most people are very critical of Moore for failing to make a trade (I could be wrong though). We had limited trade commodities and there was a limited market for them. We don’t know if anything really good was offered (or, in the case of Grudz, if anything was offered at all).
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If KC could Move Teahen or any of their glutton of 4th Of'rs and toss in a guy
like Nunez to get something solid back in return I would have to be OK with that. I just can’t imagine Nunez being able to stay healthy long term.
Twins waived Hernandez and Craig Monroe.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 1, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grudz
It would be foolish to move Grudz if we could not receive anything better than a sandwich pick. We likely could not get anything of value out of him. Our best value we could get from him is the compensation from being a type B free agent.
by Trumanroyal on Aug 1, 2008 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Royals would not get a pick unless they offer arbitration
And if they decide to part with Grudz, they are not going to risk arbitration with him because he is likely to get more in arbitration (a raise from his $4.5 million salary this year) than he could get as a free agent. Almost every MLB team is set at 2B, and for the handful that are not, there will be more available free agents than openings.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we can't/won't get compensation
In order to get compensation for him, we’d have to offer him arbitration and he’d have to decline arbitration. If Grudz wanted the most money he could get, he’d likely agree to arbitration. So the Royals really can’t afford to offer him arbitration unless they want to pay him $4M+ for next year. Hell, given how he’s performed over the last two years, I think an arbitrator would likely give him a raise over the $4.5M he got this year.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's already said that he wants to play elsewhere next year...
offer it up.
by Trumanroyal on Aug 1, 2008 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You're confident that he'd turn down the greater amount of money he could make with the Royals?
You shouldn’t be, and neither should DM.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will change his mind
when his best offer is only $2 million guaranteed from the Twins to act as Alexi Casilla insurance.
The Astros made the same blunder with Mark Loretta last year.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way. He can say all he wants but that offer of 4.5 would be tempting and he would more than likely accept it.
Too many middle infielders on this team let him go keep the money.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 1, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While the Royals must offer at least 80% of his current salary in arbitration...
....if it actually went to arbitration, he’d likely get at least $5M. And his agent knows that.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 1, 2008 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not close to the situation...
DM is. If he can get a good read the Grudz won’t take it, offer it. Obviously if he thinks, it is questionable, don’t offer it.
Grudz has had his big paydays, and he isn’t getting any younger. He wants to play for a winner. It’s a gamble, and I trust DM to make the right decision.
by Trumanroyal on Aug 1, 2008 7:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I could see that
you know, Grudz is just the type of gritty player that would take one for the team like that.
I once tried to string together the combination, "Hot Shot Hit Foul". It didn't quite come out that way. -- Denny Matthews
by gordonfan on Aug 1, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is not just money, it is playing time
Basically all of the contenders are set at 2B, so he not only would have to accept less money, he would have to accept a spot on the bench.
by Gopherballs on Aug 1, 2008 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
I don’t see him accepting arbitration AT ALL. He’s at the end of his career and CLEARLY wants another shot at winning again, and that’s probably not in KC next year.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Aug 2, 2008 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think he doesn't care about money at all?
On the FA market, he’s probably not worth more than $3M. If he accepts arbitration, he’ll get $5M. That’s hard to turn down. Now, if DM talks to him openly about this situation and gets an assurance from him that he won’t accept arbitration, then go for it. But I doubt Grudz would say that he definitely won’t accept. It’s hard to turn down extra millions of dollars.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 2, 2008 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point in his career,
No.
He’s made 30 mil (+???), set for life (and his kid’s lives probably too), knows he’s on the last leg of his career. I don’t think 2 million is enough for him to end his career in a spot where he knows he won’t win.
In fact, I’ll say it now. He declines arbitration and signs a 1yr/5m deal with the Dodgers to replace Kent. Colletti and Torre love their vets.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Aug 2, 2008 4:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How often do players no care about how much money they make because they've made a lot of money already?
Most of these guys are set for life after a few years in the majors. That doesn’t stop them from maximizing the amount of money they make with every contract they sign. No GM should ever gamble that a player is going to choose $3M over $5M. And no one will give Grudz anywhere near $5M on the FA market. I’m sure his agent has good idea of this by now. By decision time, he’d know it for sure.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 2, 2008 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statements like "he's made enough money"
Always directly reflect the speaker’s idea of “what’s enough money?”
Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on Aug 2, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why all of a sudden does he not care about money?
He has been on his last leg for a couple years now. He knew KC wasn’t a place to win a title. He came here for the money. That won’t change now.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 2, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff here Will.
I especially like your insight into how Moore is handling the bullpen hands. It does seem possible that Moore has a better than average ability to build effective bullpens out of spare parts. If this is the case the Royals can turn a profit by buying relievers low, refurbishing them for a few months, and flipping them on the trade market for a profit. But I also agree with your other insight that Moore seems overly reluctant to sell the pitching he has been stockpiling.
I was expecting Mahay to be dealt this time. Looking back now it is clear the Royals should have dealt Gobble last year when his stock was high. I assume he would have brought in a decent return. While Gobble looks like a DFA candidate this off season at this time last year he looked like a young effective left handed reliever with some lingering potential to grow into an okay starter under team control for two more years. Of course I didn’t see this melt down coming any better than anyone else. I was pretty cool towards the idea of trading Gobble last July.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Aug 2, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of maximizing value in the bullpen
is this an appropriate time to mention
Gathright 2008 VORP: -5.8
J. p. Howell 2008 VORP: 17.7
?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 2, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why do you insist on emphasizing the negative?
you would do better to accentuate the positive!
like, um, well, you know, um, Gloadie is playing really well, and, um….
yeah, that darned Gathright
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 2, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had no faith in J.P. Howell when he left the Royals,
and for some strange reason I still have no faith in him. I keep waiting for the melt down. Unless he has learned some amazing new pitch he probably is much more lucky than good this year.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Aug 2, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All that (NHZ, too) granted, the issue is maximizing value
Do you think he’s so lucky that Gathright has really been close to of equal value?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on Aug 2, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've got no love for the gator.
I’m happy to see Maier getting some playing time.
Tampa Bay got the better of the trade, but I don’t see either player having much of a career so I just will not spend too much time thinking about this one.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Aug 2, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Of course not. I’m just saying that J.P. Howell isn’t so great that we should miss him.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on Aug 2, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wanted to add some athleticism.
Hard to take now in hindsight but at the time it sounded like a better trade for KC. It is too bad he didn’t ship the Gobstopper instead but how do we know that was the initial offer and they wanted Howell instead. It’s easy to say this was a big mistake now.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 2, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When's the last time a team got a "decent return" for a deadline trade for LOOGY?
Not only was/is he merely a LOOGY, but he didn’t have a long track record of success. That was his one and only good season. We would have gotten a marginal prospect for him. Could Moore have gotten much more than that for Mahay? It’s very had to say. But we can definitely say that Moore has no problem with trading relievers as he’s done so multiple times in the past.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 2, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think Gobble would have been sold as a LOOGY?
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Aug 2, 2008 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because LOOGY is the only role in which he has ever succeeded
And his success against lefty batters after his delivery change (early 2007) is the only reason a team would have wanted to acquire him.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's hope
that in a year we aren’t saying something like: “I can’t believe they did the same thing with Mahay as they did with Gobble. Why didn’t we trade him at the height of his value?”. Of course, this is like my abilities in the stock market…
The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib
by buddyball on Aug 2, 2008 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How many Wins are these guys really responsible for?
Mahay is having an Outstanding season but if he was traded and replaced with a average lefty how many wins is he really worth?
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 2, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off the top of my head, I would guess that over a full season the difference between Mahay this year and an average lefty reliever would be 1-2 wins.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 2, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of a depressing stat if players followed stats. As good as he has been and that is only worth 1-2 wins.
Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin
by kcscoliny on Aug 2, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, his overall value is more than 1-2 wins
But the value he adds over an average lefty reliever is probably only 1-2 wins.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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