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Well, I think it's time...

To officially start looking forward to next year.....again.  Actually, it was time to start looking ahead a while ago, but what the heck, I'm bored @ work, so I need something to keep me in front of my CPU.

Here is the list of potential FA's in the offeseason, as reported by MLBtraderumors.com

What I'm curious about, it what your thoughts are as to who (if anyone) we should heavily pursue

Catchers
Rod Barajas (33) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Michael Barrett (32)
Henry Blanco (37) - $3MM mutual option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Johnny Estrada (33)
Toby Hall (33) - $2.25MM club option for '09 with a $0.15MM buyout
Jason LaRue (35)
Paul Lo Duca (37)
Miguel Olivo (30) - $2.7MM club option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout
Mike Redmond (38) - $0.95MM club option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout
Ivan Rodriguez (37)
David Ross (32)
Jason Varitek (37)
Gregg Zaun (38)

First basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Sean Casey (34)
Tony Clark (37)
Carlos Delgado (37) - $12MM mutual option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with a $5MM buyout
Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.75MM buyout
Eric Hinske (31)
Doug Mientkiewicz (35)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29)
Daryle Ward (34)

Second basemen
Jamey Carroll (35) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.15MM buyout
Ray Durham (37)
Mark Ellis (32)
Mark Grudzielanek (39)
Orlando Hudson (31)
Tadahito Iguchi (34)
Jeff Kent (41)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Mark Loretta (37)
Aaron Miles (32)
Nick Punto (31)

Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera (34)
David Eckstein (34)
Adam Everett (32)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Cesar Izturis (29)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Edgar Renteria (33) - $12MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Juan Uribe (30)
Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

Third basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Casey Blake (35)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Joe Crede (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09
Chipper Jones (37) - $8-11MM vesting option for '09
Dallas McPherson (27)

Left fielders
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32)
Carl Crawford (27) - $8.25MM club option for '09 with a $2.5MM buyout
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Luis Gonzalez (41)
Raul Ibanez (37)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Craig Monroe (32)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09
Manny Ramirez (37)
Juan Rivera (30)

Center fielders
Rocco Baldelli (27)
Mike Cameron (36) - $10MM club option for '09 with a $750K buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29)

Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Brad Wilkerson (32)

DHs
Milton Bradley (31)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with $5MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Raul Ibanez (37)
Manny Ramirez (37)
Juan Rivera (30)
Mike Sweeney (35)
Frank Thomas (41)
Jim Thome (38) - $13MM club option for '09 with $3MM buyout; vests with 564 PAs in '08
Jose Vidro (34)

Starting pitchers
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Josh Fogg (32)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Braden Looper (34)
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Brian Moehler (37)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42) - $12MM club option for '09
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)

Closers
Brian Fuentes (33)
Eric Gagne (33)
Eddie Guardado (38)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Todd Jones (41)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Francisco Rodriguez (27)
Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Kerry Wood (32)

Middle relievers
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Luis Ayala (31)
Joe Beimel (32)
Joe Borowski (38)
Doug Brocail (42) - club option for '09
Shawn Chacon (31)
Juan Cruz (30)
Alan Embree (39) - $3MM club option for '09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Keith Foulke (35)
Tom Gordon (41) - $4.5MM club option for '09 with a $1MM buyout
LaTroy Hawkins (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Matt Herges (39) - club option for '09
Bob Howry (35)
Jon Lieber (39)
Damaso Marte (34) - $6MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Trever Miller (36) - $2MM club option for '09 with a $0.4MM buyout
Guillermo Mota (35)
Will Ohman (31)
Darren Oliver (38)
Horacio Ramirez (29)
Al Reyes (38)
Dennys Reyes (32)
Juan Rincon (30)
Brian Shouse (40)
Russ Springer (40)
Mike Timlin (43)
David Weathers (39)
Kip Wells (32)
Matt Wise (33)

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We've needed Kris Benson

Ever since we let Brett Tomko go, to fill the void left by Mrs. Tomko.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 18, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

would that be a move to improve our bench depth?

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Aug 18, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Dunn or Milton Bradley

Dunn – He would offer a great OBP/HR man in the OF or be a great DH option.
Bradley – Pure entertainment purpose the black version of Jose Guillen on the same team when life gives you an opportunity like that you must grab it. Plus it would be fun just listening to Ryan squirm in the broadcast booth.

What about a taking a shot at Rocco Baldelli? Lots of injuries, lots of upside if he would stay healthy and wouldn’t break the bank.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 18, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Milton Bradley WOULD be great with Guillen

Downside: Gets hurt alot, might attack an announcer

Upside: Actually can hit when he’s healthy, doesn’t “gut out” his injuries by playing and OPS+ing 89, beaten announcer likely to be Ryan

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking of Rocco myself

He’s making $2.25M this year, I can’t see him getting much more than that given his history. I can’t see him getting a long term deal for the same reason…is he worth a $5-$6M, 2 year deal.

He and DDJ can take turns on the DL.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Aug 18, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like taking chances

but I can’t see giving Rocco two years. I feel bad for him, but “may not be able to play again” mystery conditions aren’t something to mess with on a budget.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't offer Rocco

Anything more than a one year deal with an option, heavily incentivized. He has shown NO abillity to stay healthy.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The free agent market

Gets a big yawn out of me. Adam Dunn and Pat Burrell are great hitters, but would both turn our outfield into the worst defensive outfield in Royals history. Juan Rivera is not as good, but a decent low cost option, but is also supposedly awful defensively. Ditto for Wily Mo Pena. Milton Bradley is very enticing, but he has shown an unwillingness to come here before, and he is not a fan of our broadcast crew. But could you imagine him and Jose in the same clubhouse? Hilarity ensues!

I suppose I could get behind signing Pena, Rivera or Craig Monroe at low cost. I think all three are capable of 20 home runs.

Raffy Furcal I think would be a longshot and he’s coming off injury. For some reason I also think he’ll decline poorly, but I can’t really point as to why.

Orlando Cabrera is very overrated I think, and I believe others have pointed out his defensive limitations. He’s posted an OPS+ over 100 just once in his career, and its down to 77 this year.

I love Orlando Hudson and Mark Ellis, but both will probably be overpaid and 2B seems to be low on our list of needs.

I don’t like any of those first basemen – I’d rather see what Shealy can do, and if need be try Kila late in 2009 if Shealy stinks. NYRoyal has advocated for Eric Hinske. That wouldn’t be an awful move, but I guess I’d just as soon rather see what Shealy/Kila can do. Oh, and we are still on the hook for the Ross Gload Blues Explosion, so he can provide a fallback for Shealy as well.

A few people have mentioned Casey Blake – a versatile player from Wichita State. But he’s getting pretty old and is limited defensively.

I actually like the pitching available, but I don’t think we’ll look to sign another pitcher. Oliver Perez, Jon Garland and Ryan Dempster are all guys I think will be good signings. But all are still middle-of-the-rotation guys, not really aces. Do we really need another mid-rotation guy?

An

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Blake would be terrible in the Royals situation

I like Blake — journeyman with some offensive skills. Can play several defensive positions well.

But he’s a rich-man’s Ross Gload — a role player on a good team. The Dodgers are going to want to pay him too much, anyway. He’s about reached That Age.

I still think Dunn/Burrell wouldn’t be bad part time OF/DH options — their crappy defense might mean Butler gets to pay first alot. If Dayton/Hillman really still put Gload out there with regularity, then they’re just idiots.

I think Shealy should be being evaluated now, and if he can do something, it might be as a right handed platoon guy. That’s why Hinske might make sense on a short-term contract. He and Shealy can platoon at 1st/DH. Hinske can also play the OF corners in a pinch (badly, but how much worse than Gload, or, frankly, Guillen?), even 3B. If Kila is ready halfway through the year, Hinske’s the kind of guy who can be traded to a contender if need be.

Callaspo’s rehab stint makes things complex up the middle, so maybe Furcal/Hudson might make sehnse. They’d definitely help the team, but I think the market will price them out of being worth if for the Royals. Still, it might not be so bad — Aviles’ is coming back to earth, particularly against righties. I’m thinking that he’ll be fortunate to OPS much over .800 over the full season next year. That’s still very good, just saying that relying on him too much is pushing it.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if we

went after Sheets to headline our rotation?

How about toss 5/85 at him

then grab Rivera and put him in left and watch him rake all season.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Aug 18, 2008 2:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My personal thoughts are as such....

When compiling this list, I’m keeping KC’s budget in mind (i.e., I’m not going after K-Rod, etc…I’m also doing it relatively quick, since I don’t want to get fired today…

I’d Pursue….

PITCHING

Oliver Perez - I think he’s probably Dayton Moore’s #1 taret this offseason. We need a LH starter in the rotation, and he is the best one out there. He’s not spectacular, but has about a 2:1 K:BB, and a sub 4 ERA over the last 2 seasons. His detractor in my eyes is that he has averaged right around 6 IP per start the last 2 seasons, and has never pitched 200 innings.

Jon Garland - He would be similar to the Meche signing 2 years ago, but he’s actually put it all together in the past, whereas Meche had only shown potential, so I think he might be priced out of our range. His K:BB ratio has worsened over the last 2 seasons, and that is a red flag.

*Brandon Lyon – * He would make a solid Set up guy potentially for Soria if Soria remains the closer, and is also a proven (sort of) closer if we choose to move Soria to the rotation. He’s one of the youngest potential set-up closer types so he should still contribute for a few years. Another guy that might fit that mold is…

Juan Cruz - He’s had a solid ERA the last 2 years, 3.10 in 61 IP in ‘07 and 2.97 in 36+ this year. He also possesses a solid K to BB ratio. Never been used as a C, I’d say he’d be another solid Pen arm though.

OFFENSE

Orlando Cabrera, Edgar Renteria or Orlando Hudson - I don’t love any of these guys, , but they are (short of Furcal possibly) the 3 best SS/2B available this off-season, and we HAVE to do something there I think. It is possible that Calaspo will be A-OK and will enter Spring only needing to ward off German for everyday 2B duties, but I’m not sold on that given his issues this season.

Juan Rivera - This would depend on the jettising of Jose Guillen, but assuming Dayton can find a taker for him (assuming the rumors are correct and they want to deal him this winter), we’d have a hole to fill in our lineup. Rivera hasn’t gotten a real shot since he broke his leg in ’06, so he may play w/ a chip on his shoulder.

I have a feeling that KC will go after Corey Patterson for a cheap rate. he seems to fit into the mold that Dayton Moore seems to covet.

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 3:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Patterson

ugh

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was actually a guy

That I REALLY thought we could have gotten back in ‘06 in a trade w/ Chicago for Angel B, and I really was hoping for that deal. He’s obviously not a prospect anymore, and I don’t want him anymore, I just have always had a feeling we’d see him in a KC uniform eventually…

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really like your targets

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's what he said

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Aug 18, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes to pitching, no to offense

too bad we need the offense…

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by marbotty on Aug 18, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't you just wait 3-4 more years?

Sheesh.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea but

I’ve stated that I’m not an Adam Dunn fan, I am not intersted in him at the price he is going to command.

Pat Burrell is possible, but he is going to get big $$ from a big market, probably on the West Coast.

I’d LOVE to get Milton Bradley, but there is no freaking way that KC will take another risk at Jose x 2 w/ the amont of backlash the sissy KC fans have shown Jose.

I eliminated all DH’s, as we have Butler and potentiall either Kia, Shealy, or (gulp) Gload to play 1B, so I also eliminated all 1B. I emilinated all 3B also for obcious reasons…

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well tim kurkjian(sp?) in ESPN the mag,

said the royals will looks to deal JoGui this offseason because they are now tired of his shinanigans.

by cfizzle on Aug 18, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would

like to sign burrell to a 4yr/60mil deal.

it’d be great to land perez/sheets/dempster. wonder what the market is for them right now? probably quite a bit.

Alex Gordon in '08

by RoyalJHWKR on Aug 18, 2008 3:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lowe, Sabathia and Sheets are also available

Do you think the availability of those top tier FA will drive the price for second tier guys up or down?

Also, I greatly worry about the Yankees. They have some $70-80 million coming off the books this winter. And the Red Sox are out under Manny’s deal. Some teams have some serious money to play with.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've got a hunch

That once NYY ends their streak of Post Seasons this year, they are going to seriously calm down on the FA signings & focus on rebuilding their system hardcore. They will stillbe hot & heavy after the pitching (at least the should be).

Boston will of course make a play for everybody.

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would

like to pick up Orlando Hudson. What do you think would be a reasonable contract? Keep in mind that we will have to overpay for most of these guys. I would say that I wouldn’t go much higher than 3/30. I would also try and sign either Baldelli or Rivera for the outfield. Baldelli I would do a 1yr deal at 4-5ish with a club option. Rivera I would sign for 2-3 year deal. Maybe 3/24?

by gordonrules on Aug 18, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

O-Dog is an interesting candidate.

And it is 100% dependant on Alberto Callaspo getting over his cranial rectal inversion or not as to wether or not we pursue him.

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't go that high on Rocco

more like Retro’s suggestion above. A tmost.

I’m not sure on Rivera. He may or may not suck on defense. But he’ll come relatively cheap, I think. I don’t think it’s likely, but given that he’s coming off of injuries/playing time issues, if he gets healthy it wouldn’t be totally surprising if he outhit Jose Guillen next year. His range can’t be much worse.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Juan Rivera I think

Could be had for much less. I think 2 years $6-8 million. he needs to re-establish his value.

Hudson…hmm…my WAG would be 4 years $40-46 million. His injury may reduce that somewhat.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

all he will be is Esteban’s replacement. Before he had his problem, he wasn’t getting pt like he was being groomed to be Grud’s replacement.

by gordonrules on Aug 18, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This team needs hitting desperately

Dunn, or Burrell in the OF/1B/DH

Furcal or Hudson at a middle IF spot (would upgrade both offensively and defensively).

Juan Rivera is interesting, but he has more than a few big question marks. He’d be a low-cost option, but do we really want someone for this offense who is another maybe?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 3:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We may have no choice

Unless we can land Dunn or Burrell, all other options are guys with some question marks.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hinske represents a decent plan C--relatively few question marks

I would not be opposed to starting the year with a Hinske/Shealy platoon at first base, with Butler staying in the DH spot. I realize that will likely not happen, because everyone in the Royals organization is in love with Ross Gload, but as long as we make sure to sit Hinske against tough lefties and Shealy against many righties, that could be a very productive platoon.

I really hope that the Royals don’t go after Rafael Furcal—I’d either like to see how Aviles and Callaspo work together, or I’d rather see us pursue a cheaper option at SS and save our money for a more powerful hitter.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 18, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody has some question marks

But guys like Dunn, Burrell, Furcal and Hudson have been pretty consistent and have all been good recently. Rivera has never been an everyday player, so we don’t know how he’d handle that (facing 75% RH pitchers). And, for some reason, his stats took a nosedive this year. I’m not saying he wouldn’t do well, I’m just pointing out that he’s a much bigger question mark than the above top tier FA’s. Dunn and Burrell are both legitimately big bats. Furcal and Hudson are very good for their position and would represent a nice upgrade for the Royals both offensively and defensively. Rivera is probably a good value signing, but would anyone be surprised if his production were below average for a corner OFer? I guess what one wants to do on the FA market depends on how much one wants to improve the hitting.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't realize that Furcal was only 31

that isn’t that old. It seems like he has been playing forever.

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Aug 18, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, a 9-year career already

Only one down year in the last 6 and 560+ at bats in each of the last six years until this year. Unless his injury this year is so major that it should be a continuing/lingering problem, he should be good asset at SS for the next 3-4 years.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes to all 3

er, rather, I agree with all three. no to Juan Rivera

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by marbotty on Aug 18, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We definitely need some defensive upgrades, both Banny and Hooch

have ERAs more than 1 pt. above their FIP. You can’t blame that all on defense, but….

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Aug 18, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Cameron is old...is his defense still good?

Ellis or Hudson would make Hooch happy.

For Banny, we’d have to position players beyond the outfield wall. Not sure we’re allowed to do that.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he would fit in the team hitting discipline approach we have now

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Aug 18, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or trade them both for a bat and sign Sabathia.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Aug 18, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My argument for Dunn

Why it should: He has more HR’s, RBI’s, and BB’s than the current 1B ogre’s that I shall call Glotler. His career OBP and SLG is higher than anyone for the Royals this season, including Aviles. Will provide some lineup protection for Gordon, Butler, Gordon, Aviles, Gordon, DeJesus, Gordon, Guillen, and Gordon.

I guess my point is I think Gordon would excel if he had another real major leaguer batting in the heart of the lineup with him.

Bonus reason, Dunn would probably break the Royals homerun record, and then probably break his own record the next year, and then probably break it again….and so on.

Why it won’t: $$$$$$$$

by sconieroyal on Aug 18, 2008 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Too bad....

He revolted when Cincy had him play 1B. It looks like, in his mind, it is OF or DH only.

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

will we actually

make any of these moves?

Our biggest needs in my mind
Corner OF-need OPS power hr runs everything
SS- move aviles to second

Catcher- Buck is having his annual slide behind the plate. I know others like buck, but i think his “ability to call a good game” is over commented on. I don’t really know why everyone at RR laughs at the “gloads defense being better than butlers” arguement, but continues to make essentially the same arguement when comparing buck’s and olivo’s intangibles.

I’m not trying to stir the pot, but Gload’s defense is assumed to be better, but his defensive range statistics (as i remember) really don’t show any improvement from butler.

Buck’s defense is assumed to be better than olivos. But for whatever reason RR takes ths as a true statement. However as I remember Buck and Olivo’s era’s when being pitched to are comprable. That and Buck cannot throw anyone out at the moment.

Therefore stats suggest he is no better than olivo. In one case we stick to the facts, in another we stick to the assumptions.

Ist Everyone except mr. hillman it seems agrees that Gload’s getting way to many AB’s for someone with such a low OPS.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Aug 18, 2008 5:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

and a sub-.700 OBP is much easier to swallow at catcher than at first

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Buck

isn’t blocking a younger guy who we need to get reps.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Aug 18, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not sure we are on the same page

“Probably because defense at catcher is 100x more important than defense at first base.”

EXACTLY and buck isn’t delivering good defense…or offense. I agree defense is very important, and IF buck’s defensive numbers were good I wouldn’t have a problem sucking up the offense for the tradeoff. But his defensive numbers aren’t good. The yankees RAN ALL OVER HIM and he is what 2-35 now?

You still aren’t addressing the main issue that buck’s defense is not as good as this mythical RR creature has made it sound like. No one even questions buck’s defense…but have you watched him lately. His throws have been terrible.

I agree gload is a worse situation…but it is not a situation of only being able to fix one, or pick your posion. We can and should fix both situations.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Aug 19, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quality catchers are the rarest commodity in baseball right now

Pudge Rodriguez does not grow on trees, which is exactly why it would be much easier to upgrade 1B, SS and COF.

If you want a better catcher than Buck, who is it and how are we going to get him?? I just don’t know if any of the guys on the FA list are significantly better than Buck.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Aug 19, 2008 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

couldn't agree more

there are bigger holes at premium positions. Catcher’s are not about offensive production anyways. If you get offensive production than that is a huge bonus.

by I need more Esteban on Aug 19, 2008 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Olivo is

If we can sweeten the pot on next year’s contract before he exercises his opt-out, I don’t think that would be a terrible thing.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 19, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buck has actually been a little better than Olivo over their careers

…and Olivo is older. We shouldn’t be swayed by an aberrational season by Miguel and overpay him. Just keep Buck and catcher and use B.Pena as his backup for league minimum. Catcher should be at the bottom of our offseason priority list. Our finite resources would be better spent in many other places.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does that take into account

the fact that first half 2007 seems to be the exception for Buck rather than the rule? Their numbers are almost freakishly similar, but Olivo’s SLG is consistent, and Buck’s are dragged upward by two great months.

Also, it was sick watching the Yankees run all over Buck on Sunday. Sterling and Waldman on the radio were constantly talking about how low his caught-stealing percentage is. I know Olivo’s considerably better in that department, at least. Buck seems to be a little better in other defensive metrics, though I don’t know how seriously one should take fielding percentage for catchers when most of their “Putouts” are strike-outs.

I don’t know how you’d measure pitcher-handling. Is there any reasonable indication that the Royals pitchers in the long-term picture (Meche, Greinke, Hoch) prefer throwing to Buck over Olivo?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 19, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does that take into account the fact that first half 2007 seems to be the exception for Buck rather than the rule?

It would be a mistake to take out exceptionally good or bad half seasons. If we take out Buck’s best half season, we’d also have to take out his worst half season. The same is true for Olivo.

Their numbers are almost freakishly similar, but Olivo’s SLG is consistent, and Buck’s are dragged upward by two great months.

Without looking, I bet I could find a few great months in Olivo’s career which have helped his stats (as well as some bad months which have hurt them…..like every other major league player)

Also, it was sick watching the Yankees run all over Buck on Sunday. Sterling and Waldman on the radio were constantly talking about how low his caught-stealing percentage is. I know Olivo’s considerably better in that department, at least.

I think over their careers (and even in recent years), Olivo has been better, but not a great deal better.

I don’t know how you’d measure pitcher-handling. Is there any reasonable indication that the Royals pitchers in the long-term picture (Meche, Greinke, Hoch) prefer throwing to Buck over Olivo?

Some Royals pitchers have talked about how much they love Buck catching for them (especially Meche). But that’s all anecdotal. And I don’t put any weight on CERA (which I think favors Buck this season, but is essentially meaningless).

Long story short, I’d take the younger, less expensive option in Buck over Olivo.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buck is getting worse...

I dont care if he is younger. Olivo is a better defender and at this moment a better hitter. A huge upgrade he is not, but that doesn’t mean you don’t take the improvement. If we had an upgrade at every position as easily available as this one I would take it. As the royals are many improvements of varying size away from winning, not just a move or two.

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Aug 19, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One down year and he's getting worse?

I don’t buy that. Was Olivo getting worse every time he’s had a down year? I think too many people have had their head turned by an anomalous season from Olivo. When he flops back down to his career numbers (or worse), Royals fans would be calling for his head too. Olivo isn’t an upgrade over Buck, period. Again, looking at their career numbers, why is there any reason to believe that Olivo is an upgrade? And the Royals aren’t going to improve by wasting $2.9M on Olivo who doesn’t represent any kind of upgrade.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

THINK BIG

I think the Royals need to sign either Mark Teixeira or Adam Dunn.

If they sign Teixeira, then Butler becomes a DH.

If they sign Dunn, Butler gets 1B and Dunn DHs.

I think the biggest problem on the offensive side is no longer fielding abhorrent players (other than Gload at 1B), but rather an entire lineup filled with what should be supporting players, i.e., guys who are fine in your lineup, but need good #3 and #4 hitters with them to make it work. I don’t think we can afford two bonafide guys like that – but we can afford one, and hope Butler or Gordon develop into the other one.

As for the pitching, I really want to try Soria in the rotation. If he pans out to what I think he could be (ERA in the low 3s at the worst), then we have 3/5 of the rotation I envision. I’m willing to wait for further bolstering from the decent Minor League pitching depth that we have accumulated to solve the closer role and the #4 and #5 starters. Perhaps Hochever improves to where I want him. (ERA in low 4s at the worst).

Bottom line – if the Royals have, say $30 million to spend on FAs, I’d rather spend $20 of it on a legit #3 or #4 hitter, and $10 million on assorted cheap help, than spend $10 million on 2 mediocre players like Guillen, and $10 million on other assorted cheap help.

by loyal2sdad on Aug 18, 2008 5:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

MIddle of the order guys

Actually, if, unlike Trey Hillman, you think platoon splits are important, Gordon’s numbers against RHPs and Buterl’s against LHPs this year indicate they are middle of the order guys against their opposite-handed opposite numbers.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The idea of Orlando Hudson is kind of growing on me

I like Callaspo, but I get this feeling he’d make an absolutely perfect utility guy. He can play 2B, SS, 3B, LF, and CF (probably RF too) all fairly well. Aviles need a day off, bam…put him at SS. Facing a really tough lefty…stick him at 3B. DeJesus need his normal day off…he can play CF. Guillen’s back hurt and need’s to DH…there’s more playing time.

Hudson is a stud defender…good bat, gets on base, awesome club house guy, great with the fans…He’d make putting Butler at 1B easier since he has a ton of range.

Is that worth the 4/40 though he’s going to command? I’m not sure. Is it worth splurging money on him rather than a big bat like Dunn/Burrell/Bradley? Not sure there either. Ideally, we’d deal Guillen (mostly to get his contract off the books), sign Hudson to a 3/39 deal, Bradley to a 2/24 deal, trade for a Marlins outfielder like Cody Ross (because that team is cheap as hell) and sign a reclamation project like Carl Pavano (I’m totally for this because he’ll be cheap).

Then by midseason you’re looking at something like this—

CF David DeJesus
2B Orlando Hudson
LF Milton Bradley
DH Billy Butler
3B Alex Gordon
RF Cody Ross
SS Mike Aviles
1B Kila Kaaihue
C John Buck

/dream over.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Aug 18, 2008 5:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My love for the O-Dog is documented elsewhere

For a lot of the reasons you list. However, I’m skeptical of his bat outside of the D-backs home park. I’d rather have Dunn as DH because that would represent a bigger upgrade, I think, than Hudson over Callaspo.

But Hudson wouldn’t be bad at 4/40. However, although I don’t know much about these things, do you think he’ll be available that cheaply? I know his reported desire for $15 million/year is the usual bluster, but he will be in demand by the Dbacks themselves and others.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

From all accounts he’s a great clubhouse guy and a fan fave for his hustle and attitude.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here would be a good gamble

Dallas McPherson, a former great prospect who has more or less failed in the Majors. He has hit 40 HRs in the minors this season, is still only 27, and would presumably come fairly cheap.

Lots of upside at a reasonable cost. It will turn out that he is either a AAAA player, or just maybe we get lucky and he is a really late bloomer. Remember, we only need him to be good for a few years before he would become too expensive anyway, so why not roll the dice and take a chance on him?

If it works out, Gordon could move to 1B (or McPherson could, I imagine).

by loyal2sdad on Aug 18, 2008 5:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

despite Gordon’s struggles this year, I’ve never heard anyone say anything good about McPherson’s defense at third. There is more invested in Gordon — they should stick with him at third. I would imagine McPherson would only be worth getting cheap (small investment). I like the idea, don’t know how feasible it is.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think Dan Johnson is worth a look if he's free this winter

Great plate discipline, 15-20 home run power and he’s a midwesterner (a Cornhusker)

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about AJ Burnett...

He will probably opt out from the Blue Jays—has a bad ERA this year, but his peripherals remain strong

by nwroyal on Aug 18, 2008 8:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's going to get a massive contract from someone

Given the fact that the Royals have both pitching quality and depth, I don’t want to pay $15M+ per year for another starter. I’d much rather go with:

Greinke
Meche
Hochevar
Rosa
Bannister

Davies as long relief and spot starter
Soria perhaps working into the rotation (I’d do it; I don’t know if the Royals have any interest in this)

And if the Royals want to add starting pitching, I’d go for someone less expensive like Oliver Perez.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather give Burnett $15 million a year than Dunn or Burrell

and I don’t think Perez will be much, if any, cheaper (but Perez could be a decent option, I’m just afraid of how many HRs he’ll give up). Our offense needs some help, but I think cheaper options (Rivera, Hinske, Ellis, Baldelli) would be more cost effective. Ideally, I’d trade Guillen to whoever would take on the biggest part of his contract and sign Furcal, Burnett, and Rivera and trade for Felix Pie.

by nwroyal on Aug 18, 2008 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With my $15 million

I’d rather buy 5 or 6 16 year old dominicans next summer (assuming there are some that are in as high demand as there were this year)

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMHO, $15M for 5 or 6 16-year-old prospects is not a wise, efficient or effective use of resources (those are the most speculative prospects with a very high failure rate)

And, in reality, the Latin American signees which have ended up being the most effective in the majors are not the ones who signed for the most money (see Tejada and M. Cabrera). I’d rather spend $1M on more and better scouts in L.A. and sign 6-8 L.A. kids for $100-250K each.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you accounting for

The money the scouts will skim off the top from these players?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

thats fine

I’d take 100 16 year old dominicans at $150K each over Adam Dunn.

by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neither is Dunn

FOr this team, at this point in time.

If we had Moose & Hosmer in the lineup, or for that matter, a .300/25/100 guy in Butler/Gordon, I might be singing a different tune, but Dunn won’t drastically help us at this point (IMO)

by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need someone like Dunn even more since we don't have Moustakas or Hosmer in our lineup

We need Dunn’s .900 OPS desperately, both now and for the next few years.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whose at-bat would he be replacing?

Either Ross Gload’s or Mark Teahan’s.

Ross Gload 2008 OPS+ = 76 (career 91)
Mark Teahen 2008 OPS+ = 84 (career 96)

Adam Dunn 2008 OPS+ = 130 (career 130)

I’d call that a drastic difference.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Butler.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 19, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need a hell of a lot more help on offense than we do with pitching

And Burnett’s floor is going to be $15M. I think he’ll go over that. And are you really eager to sign him given that he hasn’t pitched a full season since 2005? He had injuries in 2006 and 2007 which significantly limited his IP. When a pitcher starts getting injured annually in his 30’s, that’s a significant red flag. There’s no way I’d go 4/60 on him. That’s too much money for a guy who could easily give you 24 starts and 150 ip. And I’d much rather add a .900 OPS guy to our offense.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Wolf

Might be a nice target. His ERA is kinda high but he’s got solid peripherals. His FIP is 4.21.

Won’t command a huge contract either. I’d give him 2/18 if he’ll sign that.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Aug 18, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

But his ERA in some pitchers parks have been quite high the last few years.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also, 2 Japanese free agents

http://www.npbtracker.com/2009-npb-free-agents/

These guys are availible without a posting fee:

Koji Uehara (P, Yomiuri Giants):

Kenshin Kawakami (SP, Chunichi Dragons):

the reports are that both these guys are supposed to be better than Kuroda.

And, dare I mention, Yu Darvish—who will require a huge posting fee (if he is indeed posted)

by nwroyal on Aug 18, 2008 8:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Both of those guys are worth a look, and they will both get pretty big contracts

But no one who requires a posting fee. It would cost tens of millions of dollars just to negotiate with him and then a mega-contract on top of that. Only the large market teams can even begin to afford that.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a bit down on Japanese starting pitchers

I think they tend to be overpaid. I think relievers, Yabuta notwithstanding, are a better bet

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Targets should include Garland and Jennings. Both are decent. Jennings is a sleeper who could be a solid 3 guy. Maybe better. Of course the goal would be CC or Sheets or Dempster….. Offensively…. let’s get a Varitek or older catcher who can split time and help the staff. other than that… not sure…

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Aug 18, 2008 9:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Varitek is going to get WAY more money than he's worth

if you really want an old, part-time catcher, I’d say Greg Zaun would almost certainly give better value for the money next year. Heck, he might out-hit Varitek straight up.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Zaun a lot

Never really sure why we parted with him

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's no Paul Bako

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Bako have a cool website, though?

Bring your Z-game!

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Aug 19, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

that is COOL.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 19, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

definitely better than most

Weird choice of songs, though. I’m guessing that Gregg just likes the sound of it, and isn’t implicitly advocating heroin use.

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Aug 19, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jennings

Major injury in 2007 which limited him to 99 innings. Major injury in 2008 which limited him to 27.1 innings. Since one shouldn’t expect him to be healthy, I wouldn’t waste money on him because he likely wouldn’t help the team. As far as catching goes, I wouldn’t want an old, expensive catcher. Nor would I want to waste money on a journeyman backup. Brayan Pena can do the job for league minimum. Lets spend money on some of our genuine priorities

1. A corner OFer
2. A 1B/DH
3. A SS/2B

I don’t know that we’ll be able to fill each of those holes, but we should prioritize those areas in our FA signings and trades.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 18, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just stunning how little it seems there really is out there

at least in the Royals areas of need on offense. In the OF/1B/DH slots, it seems like its Dunn and Burrell (who are better fits at DH), then a bunch of guys who will have their options picked up (e.g., Vlad) bor will be way too expensive for KC (e.g., Manny, Teixeira), or will be in decline too much relative to what they’ll be paid(e.g., Abreu, Giambi). Other guys are possible role players who are too old (Jay Payton). No wonder Juan Rivera and Casey Blake look appealing to some of us. And now I’m not sure the Royals could even get Hinske on a 1 or 2 year deal.

I can see it (possibly, not necessarily) coming about that the Royals don’t get any of the guys we want, but it not being a bad decision because all the guys that make sense for the Royals get snatched up at prices that it wouldn’t be prudent for the Royals to spend. I hope not, but man, when Jay Payton would be a possible upgrade…

I wonder what it would take to get Dallas McPherson? I can see him being a corner power guy (1B/3B/RF/Lf) a la Russ Branyan. Sort of a homeless man’s Adam Dunn.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2008 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see Hinske

Wanting to return to Tampa, and Tampa wanting him to come back.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're probably right

OPSing over .900 against righties

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never understood the Jennings love

The guy had an average ERA of over 4.7 in the NL. Texas is a tough park, no doubt, but I think the run inflation you see there was a result of his switching leagues and having to contend with a DH.

I think the best we could expect from him would be something like Scott Elarton.

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Aug 19, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think

the bats are going to come via trade and/or low-cost siginings, like Hinske or Baldelli. I don’t believe that the Royals are going to spend a significant amount this winter.

My prediction is that we end up with someone like Cody Ross or Juan Rivera.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Aug 18, 2008 10:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We could do a lot worse

Than Cody Ross.

Like say….Reggie Sanders

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Aug 18, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ross OPSing 111 this year

a league average corner outfielder. I wonder what that’s like?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He must be worth about $25 million a year

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eric Hurley, Chris Davis, Jarrod Saltalamacchia for Zach Grienke

by oc on Aug 19, 2008 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crystal Ball sees Nick Punto in our future

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 18, 2008 10:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Think of the grit!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 18, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my sources say no

http://8ball.ofb.net/answers.html

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Aug 18, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read on

trade rumors that the Marlins are believed to be blowing the team up again this offseason. They speculate that Uggla, 2 of the 3 outfielders, Jacobs and Scott Olsen will be moved. I would try and get one of their outfielders. Uggla will command a rather large prospect package I would imagine.

by gordonrules on Aug 18, 2008 11:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm a little confused....

As to why everyone has 1B/DH in our MUST FILL slot. Butler is obviously going to be one of those, that is almost a given, and we have two guys in Shealy & Kila that are still (potentially) options in that slot for very little $$.

Does anyone really think that it is worth paying another guy BUCCO bucks for multiple years, when for $4 million, we can at the BEAR minimum (gulp) leave Ross Gload there next season, when we still aren’t looking like we are going to be ready to compete for anything, and then plug Lila in for ’10?

If we sign someone to fill that 1B hole, to get the production value that is considerably more than Gload, it is going to have to be a multi-year deal. In which case we are creating an out of the organization block for Kila.

Personally, I’d MUCH rather take that $7-$15 million (large gap depending on if you are talking Dunn or a cheaper alternative) and spend it on a SP, or a 2B/SS type, where we are much thinner in MLB ready talent, or at worst, a corner OF (though, the market is weak there this year this year, after ’09, it looks like Bay, Crawford, Holliday & others will be FA).

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 11:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like how Kila looks

but I still want to see a larger sample at AAA before declaring him our first baseman of the future.

A September call-up would be a nice time to look, though I doubt they’ll do that.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 19, 2008 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, one great minor league season (amongst a lot of mediocre ones) does not make him someone who we can count on

In the very least, the Royals need a one-year place filler for 1B/DH to go along with Butler.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who?

That is substantially better than Gload is going to take a 1 year deal?

by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just about anybody is substantially better than Gload

So there are many, many options, including many who might sign a one-year deal. And there are some who might require a 2-year deal. And if Kila continues to prove himself, that FA could be traded after one season to make room for Kila.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

there are better options than Gload out there, but none of them in my mind are going to take a 1 year deal.

A 2 year deal w/ a trade off is possible, and potentially likely, I’ll agree with that.

by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dan Johnson!

I will not stop beating that dead horse!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

A guy who is going to be 29 and who has had 1078 MLB AB’s with only a .763 OPS does not fill me with confidence.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He would

be better than Gload, at a MUCH lower price, and probably lower years than the FA’s available however

by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually, he would be more expensive

gloads contract is guaranteed, thus we will pay it whether he plays or not. if we are only talking about 1 year, any 1b signing would be adding salary without subtracting something else.

unless of course we can trade/ get another team to claim him off waivers

by ZeppelinDZ on Aug 19, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being better than Gload is not the sole criteria for a FA signing

Adding another not-good-enough-to-be-a-MLB-1B/DH is not the answer.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My apologies...

Gload is $1.9 mil, not $4, don’t know why I was thinking $4

by GoBabies!! on Aug 18, 2008 11:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, there is a difference between salary and worth....

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Aug 18, 2008 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he signed a 2 year contract worth approximately $4

million

This space intentionally left blank.

by marbotty on Aug 19, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Needs
  1. an outfielder with speed and a good on base percentage (any field)
  2. as many cheap #3 starters as we can get.
  3. a defensive short stop who is better with a bat then TPJ
  4. a short term big bat

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Aug 19, 2008 4:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And

A man who is emotionally available.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FA class vs. Trade rumors

The FA Class doesn’t have a whole lot to pick from. KC might be better served trying to trade for Holiday, Uggla or Jacobs. If they could dump Guillen or Teahen in Colorado or Florida they might still have enough to sign Juan Rivera and sign one the the new tradees.

Trade Guillen and a couple pitching prospects(B type ex. Pimintel and a C Bl.Johnson) for Holliday. KC might even want to eat a little of the contract or toss in Mark Teahen. KC has a good relationship with Boras and might be able to resign him. Worst case scenario they can replace him at the deadline with a solid prospect or two or lose out and get some Type A FA draft picks.

I’m sure I am way off base with this type of deal.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 19, 2008 12:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Colorado won't do that deal

The whole point of dealing Holliday is to dump salary and get good young players in return, and open up a spot in their outfield for one of the younger players. They’re not going to want Guillen.

And like I’ve said before, Boras is not going to give up the opportunity to take Holliday to the free agent market. No way is he signing an extension.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, but

watch your tone, remember Boras doesn’t control anything. His clients control everything, Boras simply ADVISES. I’d hate to see you get stuck defending that comment for hours (or maybe that was just some rite of passage I was put through)

by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yet again, Holliday chose Boras as his agent for a reason

Of course Boras is not controlling Holliday. Any suggestion of that is ludicrous. Holliday wants to make the most money or he wouldn’t have chosen Boras. So that means Holliday wants the big payday, which means he will like Boras’s advice when he advises him to not sign a contract extension and instead test the FA waters.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy, that Boras sure has that A-Rod guy under control.

Moustakas, too!

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 19, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't understand why/how people think Boras controls his clients

Boras: Matt, we’re not going to negotiate for a contract extension. I want you to test the free agent market.
Holliday: But I’d kinda like to see what they have to offer now.
Boras: I told you that you’re going to test the free agent market!
Holliday: Yes, Mr. Boras. I’m sorry.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Boras jokes/arguments aside, I want to echo Retro’s point. Whether or not Boras “controls” his clients, Colorado has certainly got the idea in this particular case that they won’t be able to resign Holliday. That indicates to me that KC or most other teams wouldn’t be able to, either. The Royals don’t need a rental guy in 2009.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not a matter of "control"

Jayson Stark just said it best when talking about Manny Ramirez.

Stark said that Boras has CONVINCED Manny that he is worth 4 years $100 Mil this offseason, despite Starks resounding disagreement with that sentiment.

At the same time, why did A-Rod all but dismiss Boras from negotiating with the yankees on his behalf this last offseason, when he clearly wanted to stay in NY, when he knows that Boras doesn’t allow prefer his clients to resign in FA years?

by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, I was trying to avoid the Boras issue altogether

Although, it seems to me, that Boras DOES prefer to resign in FA years, just not before. What’s your point?

The point of my comment was something different: Boras or not, if the Rockies are looking to trade Holliday, I think that’s a good indication that they don’t think they can resign him. They, at least, have gotten the impression that he’s going to wait for free agency to resign.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly, it's up to the client

When the client’s priorities differ from the agent’s priorities, the player changes agents. If you think Boras doesn’t “allow” his clients to do something, then you don’t understand the agent-client relationship. These millionaire players don’t just do what Boras tells them to do.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

Everyone talks about 2010 as the year well KC should know if that is realistic by midseason of ‘09. Take on Holliday if Butler and Gordon perform enough to carry a team then throw some money at him. If they don’t perform then KC will likely be in a year or two extra of rebuilding anyway so let him take off and gain the two draft picks for him. Obviously KC is gonna have to give up quite a bit to take him on probably Teahen and 2 or 3 prospects one of which is a high prospect.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 19, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess it depends on if they trade before of during the season

Is teahen + prospects going to be enough to get a 150 OPS+ hitter? And are who the prospects going to be?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One reason not to do that

Even if you “throw some money at” Holliday, he’s probably not going to sign. We’re not talking about a very young guy like Soria or Longoria who will take guaranteed money in an extension now because the risk-benefit scenario works out then. For Holliday, he knows he’s more likely to get more money if he tests the FA market. And since he picked Boras as his agent, clearly the top money is very important to him. So that all means that Holliday is very, very likely to be just a rental. And I wouldn’t give up a top prospect for a one-year rental.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And let's not oversell the draft pick compensation

For Holliday, we’re talking about a late first rounder and a sandwich pick (unless a bad team signs him, then we only get a sandwich pick and a second rounder).

The odds are definitely worse that those two players will make the majors than the two prospects we give up for Holliday.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to a poster at Royals Corner

“Stark was on 810 with Petro and said he thinks if LAD ate Andruw Jones’ money or a big chunk of it that DM would pursue him becuase he will surely be better next season.”

Interesting. Imagining an outfield of Adam Dunn, Andruw Jones and Jose Guillen is quite amusing. Kauffman Stadium would become where singles turn to triples.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2008 2:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

I’m not against getting A.Jones. I do think he’ll perform much better in the next few years. But the Dodgers would have to eat a hell of a lot of money and/or not take a really good prospect in return. I kind of doubt the two teams would be able to agree on the right money and prospects combination.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd also make it contingent

That he spend a month at a fat farm.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Royals are exactly what he'd need

Hillman will give him fire and grit and Moore will help him become a born again Christian. It’s a win-win-win scenario.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Dodgers also have to take Gload and his whole contract, as well as pretty much all of Jones'

Jones migth be a decent fourth outfielder, maybe even a right-handed platoon guy. If everything breaks right.

Plus, the Braves jokes would take on a whole new level of fun.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty confident

Obviously, I’m not absolutely sure. I have to say that I thought that last year was a bit of an anomaly. But this year… ugh.

I mean, “he’s got to be better.” Sure, I think next year he can do better than a 34 OPS+. But even if he gets back to 88, well, that’s still not great. For the Royals, he’d still be their second-best hitting CF. Is it possible that he can get back over a 100 OPS+? Maybe. That’s good for a CF. I think it’s highly unlikely he’ll ever do much better than that over a full season again, though.

He’s got a lot better OOZ than DDJ this year, but his RZR is significantly worse. So I’m not sure what that means.

Obviously I was being a bit hyperbolic above. If he’s basically free ( in terms of both salary and what the Royals have to give up), sure, he’s worth taking a flyer on, like a better Ho-Ram, low-to-no-risk situation. If he can play good defense and OPS+ 100 (and together that’s a pretty sketchy bet at this point), he’d be an asset, although, if this means that DDJ gets put in left, the Royals are still left with an outfield that’s probably not going to be league average next year in terms of hitting. And, of course, if they sign a starting corner guy in the offseason, then they either have to trade or bench DDJ (who I think is a better overall player than Jones seems to be at this point).

I can see Hillman having a hard time not just sticking him out there in CF for months at a time with all sorts of stuff about how his defense is helping a young staff — especially if he “helps out” with a mid-80s OPS+, which would represent “progress” over this year. Given his rep, it would be much harder to bench him once he’s on the team that Gload or TPJ.

But, to repeat, if he’s nearly free and the Royals can be smart about it (and Gload shows that people have a right to doubt that they have that ability, or at least exercise it), then sure, go for it.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok

I certainly agree that he’d have to come cheap. Even if his upside is a rebound to being a genuinely good hitter, that upside is limited for the Royals because he’d only help the Royals for one season and then become a FA again. I just think his career curve has been really weird. MVP votes in five different years including finishing in the top 11 in MVP voting in 2005 and 2006 and then all of the sudden in the next season at age 30 he falls off a cliff. That’s really weird.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I thought 2007 must be an anomaly, but this year makes it look different. I think “lazy” is a dumb way to evaluate a player’s peformance. But if Jones’ really didn’t stick with his conditioning as much when he was younger because his natural talent carried him, then I imagine that as the body starts to age, might catch up with him and make for a more rapid decline (and Frank Wren’s comments, although probably laced with self-interest, might reflect something like that). Griffey might be a comparison here. He never really liked stretching, from all reports, and in his 20s, it wasn’t a big deal. But when he got older, perhaps that caught up with him.

Another possible explanation, of course, is PEDs, but that’s unfair.

There doesn’t necessarily have to be an explanation. Before this season, if you’d asked me who would have the better year between Toriiiii and Andruw, I would have said Andruw (stupidly), because he’s always seemed to have a better approach at the plate, and more power (I also will admit to having a less-than-rational anti-Toriiiiii bias). But while one year can be an anomaly, two is just scary, whatever the reason.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not that weird.

In fact, he’s not the only perennial-allstar Braves CF to suffer that fate.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 19, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is very rare

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm against it

and I think it’s ridiculous to think he’ll perform much better. He’s been on a downslope for years, interrupted by an anomaly. When the Dodgers’ trainer gives him a rubdown, he has to navigate around the fork in his back.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 19, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the downslope for years?

I don’t know if he’ll ever rebound, but it is entirely inaccurate to say that he’s “been on a downslope for years, interrupted by an anomaly.”

2002 127 OPS+
2003 117
2004 112
2005 136
2006 126

That looks like a plateu to me, followed by him falling off a cliff in 2007 and 2008.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 19, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andruw Jones is as due as the Washington Generals

He’d be able to do better than an OPS+ of 34 while shoving DDJ off the one position in OF where his bat is a plus?!?!?! Send them Butler and Moose NOW!

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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