John Buck: To Tender or Not to Tender
That is the question.
John Buck, our longtime backstop, will once again be eligible for arbitration this winter after landing a one year $2.2 million deal this year. The Royals have three options (a) sign him to a contract; (b) tender him and have his contract determined by an arbiter; or (c) non-tender him, making him a free agent.
When we acquired John, I think we all had visions of Mike MacFarlane, quite possibly the greatest catcher in franchise history. He was a guy who didn't hit for much of an average, but was gritty, played solid defense, and could slug .430-.460. Buck has now played nearly four and a half seasons in Kansas City, and while no one has preached patience on Buck more than I, he has now reached an age where any hope of him turning a corner is slowly disappearing.
First, let's take a look at the facts:
Age AVG OBA SLG OPS+
23 .235 .280 .424 79
24 .242 .287 .389 79
25 .245 .306 .396 80
26 .222 .308 .429 90
27 .222 .294 .363 72
Car .234 .296 .399 80
It looked like he might be turning a corner when he posted a .245/.330/.542 with 15 home runs in the first half of 2007. But he went on a terrible slide in the second half and has hit just .213/.289/.339 in the last year and a half.
Rany is still a believer, hoping that Buck can enjoy a Mike Stanley-esque breakout season. Stanley began to really hit at age 28, and didn't get a full-time shot until age 30 when he really blossomed. While its true that many times catchers blossom later than other hitters, I haven't seen evidence of this other than a few selected players. If there is a study that exhaustively shows catchers develop at a later age than other players, I will certainly renew my hope in Buck. I'm just not sure such a study exists.
At any rate, Rany still believes Buck, while not a star, can still be a guy we can win around.
After DeJesus and Aviles, the third-best hitter on the roster relative to his position is probably John Buck. He’s got five homers in July after hitting just three in the first three months, and he’s approaching a career high in doubles. He’s not a star and may never be one, but you can definitely make the playoffs with a guy like this behind the plate.
If that's true, you can make the playoffs with pretty much any full-time regular currently playing. Out of 29 catchers with at least 250 plate appearances, Buck ranks 24th in OPS+ at 72. Out of 41 catchers with at least 1000 plate appearances since 2004, Buck ranks 33rd in OPS+ at 80.
Perhaps even more troubling has been Buck's slide in defense. It is hard to get a grasp of how good a catcher's overall defense is. Buck has allowed the same number of passed balls as last year, committed about the same number of errors, and has allowed about the same number of wild pitches. But in the last two years he has become much, much worse at throwing out potential basestealers. In his first three seasons, Buck threw out 34% of would-be basestealers. In the last two seasons, he has thrown out just 19%. It is true this is just one aspect of a catcher's defensive assignment, but it is an important one. Even more troubling is that recently, Buck's throws have not even been close. Perhaps his pitching staff shoulders some of the blame for his slide, but it also seems to those watching him that Buck is not as quick behind the plate as he once was.
His deficiencies in throwing out runners perhaps are outweighed by his handling of the pitching staff. Some writers attribute the success of many of our pitchers, particularly Gil Meche. However opponents are hitting nearly the same with Buck behind the plate (.267/.331/.424) as they are with Olivo (.276/.340/.436). Last year, opponents were slightly worse with Buck (.276/.335/.441) than with LaRue (.280/.346/.461) behind the plate. So if there is an effect, I'm not sure I'm seeing it.
NYRoyal has estimated Buck to receive a salary of $4 million next season. Is Buck worth that salary?
Here are the catchers available this off-season:
Rod Barajas TOR
Henry Blanco * CHC
Johnny Estrada WAS
Toby Hall * CWS
Adam Melhuse COL
Mike Redmond * MIN
Ivan Rodriguez NYY
David Ross * CIN
Javier Valentin CIN
Jason Varitek BOS
Vance Wilson DET
Gregg Zaun * TOR
*-option
Rodriguez and Varitek are out of the question. Zaun is a former Royal who has always shown an ability to draw a walk, but lacks power and is declining in his late 30s. Redmond has been a pretty good hitter (particularly against the Royals!) as a backup to Joe Mauer, but he too is declining in his late 30s. Estrada is arguably the worst defensive catcher in the league and a clubhouse cancer. Henry Blanco, Toby Hall and Adam Melhuse have never been much with the bat. Vance Wilson is hurt and old. That really leaves us with four candidates.
Rod Barajas - he puts up numbers similar to what Buck did in his best season, 2007. Doesn't hit for much average or draw walks, like Buck, but consistently hits for more power than John. And he could come cheaper - he signed a $400k deal with Toronto with a club option for $2.5 million in 2009. If they decline his deal, he might be willing to sign a deal to start in Kansas City for $2 million with an option for 2010.
Miguel Olivo - we've seen what he can do here in Kansas City this year. He's having a career season, but even if he regresses to career norms, he still provides as much or more power than Buck. His downside is that he doesn't draw any walks whatsoever. He has a player option for 2009 for $2.7 million which he may turn down to become the starter elsewhere. But if the Royals non-tender Buck and make him the starter, we could retain him.
David Ross - an intriguing player recently released by the Reds. He has tremendous power - he hit 38 home runs over 2006-2007. He's drawn a ridiculous 28 unintentional walks in 52 games, despite hitting .231 this season. But he's a lifetime .223 hitter, including an awful .203 last year. But his career numbers are similar to Buck's, and he's thrown out 39% of basestealers. He could be had for very little, and at age 32 next spring, he would not be all that old.
Javier Valentin - career backup with better career numbers than Buck (.251/.308/.401). Can draw a few walks, can hit with a bit of power. But not much upside here. If you wanted a really low cost option who can possibly provide the same numbers, Valentin would be your man.
So the free agent options may save you some money, or provide slightly better results, but we're not talking about a huge upgrade here. And you'd be giving up any upside, no matter how small, that Buck still has.
Perhaps catching can be addressed via trade, although I've warned about the folly of trading for a catcher.
I think Brayan Pena and Matt Tupman could both make fine backups in the Major Leagues, but neither seem to be good enough to be an upgrade over Buck full-time.
Are we stuck with Buck? Can we win with him in the lineup?
Tender? Or non-tender?
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54 comments
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Tender
At worst, he’s still a decent backup. The money might be a bit high, but all those other guys are a bit older and none seem to be that much better. Maybe Buck’s defensive isn’t as good as it used to be, but isn’t it likely, given some of the dropoff, that it’s a defensive “slump?” Tendering Buck isn’t going to kill the Royals. He’s not going to get $12 million in arbitration, is he?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 22, 2008 11:45 AM EDT
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John Buck
is in his first year of arbitration this year and is already receiving $2.2 million this year. Next year will be his second year of arbitration and will surely get a decent raise from that number.
by djk royal on
Aug 22, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
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You're right
And I misread NYRoyal’s chart. Edited to reflect that.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Aug 22, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
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And by the way I would tender him.
None of those free agents excite me and many may cost more than Buck. We have him under control for two more seasons. I would probably keep him and let him go when he hits free agency.
by djk royal on
Aug 22, 2008 11:53 AM EDT
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+1
I think NHZ suggested something similar in his recent column that would have been a “related story” if Retro had used the correct tagging procedure.
(SIGH)
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 22, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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I'm not familiar with the correct tagging procedure!
Do I have to be “it”?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Aug 22, 2008 12:07 PM EDT
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YES
I sucked at tag. Probably still do.
All I meant was that (and you can still do this by using the “edit” button) instead of manually entering “john buck” as a tag, if you use the “player” entry to the right, it will then give “related entries” stuff on the right.
Actually, I don’t know why “user-entered” tags don’t relate to each other, even, not just not to the same “SN Official Tags.” What the hell is the use? I’ve discovered this stuff recently when, for example, using “the office” as a tag. I guess it works if a user clicks on one and then gets a similar “search” listing. However, tags don’t seem, even then, to link to fanshots. I wonder if this is intentional or something they still haven’t worked out. Guess they were spending too much time eliminating the awesome sarcasm font.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 22, 2008 6:12 PM EDT
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Tender him
This team has SO MANY other holes to fill that are FAR more gaping than attempting a slight upgrade at catcher.
Now, if we actually had a minor leaguer nearly ready that could approximate Buck’s production (and it appears to me we don’t), obviously my anwer would be different.
The barren farm system continues to be the biggest impediment to improvement for this organization, and the blame for that falls SQUARELY on the Glass family, IMHO.
by loyal2sdad on
Aug 22, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
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Yeah David Glass sucks.
He is Mr. Grinch. He has finally changed his tune on the draft but we are still crippled by his past cheapness for the near future.
by djk royal on
Aug 22, 2008 12:02 PM EDT
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Tender for the next two years while developing Moose
behind the plate, then he’s your 2011 backstop.
We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan
by Royal Kingdom on
Aug 22, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
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Tender
He’s just coming into his “Prime” years as an offensive player.
Despite our constant bickering about his defense, the pitching staff apparantly swears by the guy. There is no need to replace his .234 .296 .399 80 with .250 .315 .425 85 (i.e. there isn’t a sure fire stud offensive catcher out there), if it means ‘upsetting’ the staff. I think we need look no further than his relationship w/ Meche for evidence of our Pitchers comfort level with the guy.
by GoBabies!! on
Aug 22, 2008 12:22 PM EDT
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What do our pitchers think?
If I’m Dayton, I ask each guy who matters, are you comfortable with John Buck or would you prefer a change? I’m sure the guys will go with JB. I’d love to get someone else in here who will hit .250 and who throws better, but we know what we have with John. We know we need to upgrade but that’s not the time to upgrade that position. Unless we think having a different game caller/strategy will make a significant difference. I’m not the biggest fan of his pitch calling, but it’s serviceable.
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
by 306008 on
Aug 22, 2008 12:37 PM EDT
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Off the top of my head, I'm guessing Dayton does stuff like that and it matters to him
Not saying he should or shouldn’t (although I think the Royals should definitely keep Buck for next year, at least), but I think he does. Did I dream it or during/after the Meche signing wasn’t there stuff in articles about Royals players (e.g., Sweeney) hearing about it and telling Dayton “yeah, get Meche, he’s got great stuff”??
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 22, 2008 6:14 PM EDT
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I say non-tender
and spend the off-season moving Teahen to catcher.
Come on, you don’t really want him to get too comfortable in any one position, do you?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on
Aug 22, 2008 12:54 PM EDT
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lol
I’m glad someone else (apparently) thinks position changes are out of control
by GoBabies!! on
Aug 22, 2008 2:09 PM EDT
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Tendering Buck will be done without reservations
KC has much bigger problems with their roster than catcher. I would like to know why his throwing numbers are down in 09. By letting Buck go, any improvement that would have been gained for the future is reaped by another team. Time for KC to stick with their development and allow Buck to stay behind the plate.
by daveyork on
Aug 22, 2008 1:50 PM EDT
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Tender (is the Night)
Based on his service time, his poor production this year, and the salaries other catchers make (like 2B, catchers tend to make less than other positions), Buck’s salary is a good bet to increase only into the $3-$3.5 million range.
by Gopherballs on
Aug 22, 2008 2:39 PM EDT
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Tender
Buck+Teahen+Wood = Beltran
fo sho
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on
Aug 22, 2008 2:47 PM EDT
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I would definitely tender him
For $4M, I’d do it. Then it becomes a toucher choice next year when he might be making $6M.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 22, 2008 4:09 PM EDT
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I was on the fence when I wrote this
But after looking at the alternatives, I don’t think there is a huge upgrade to be found. At $4 million, Buck will be way overpaid, but its worth keeping him around just on the slight chance he turns the corner and becomes a more productive hitter. I think NYRoyal is right though, the winter of 2009 becomes the tough choice, particularly if Buck only slightly improves. If he puts up the same numbers, no way do I pay him $5-6 million.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Aug 22, 2008 4:15 PM EDT
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What if he returns to 2007 form
I don’t mean the first half, but I mean overall. That makes it even weirder. On one hand, he’s hardly an All-Star in that realm. On the other, he would, in my mind, show that “hitting with (some) power” is a skill, and not just a one-year fluke. Would he be worth 5-6 million then?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 22, 2008 6:16 PM EDT
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Not to me
If he returned to 2007 form, I’d see if I could flip him at the deadline and then sign a roughly average catcher for less than $5-6M. The one caveat I would add to that is, let’s see what happens to the market rate for average catchers this offseason. Salary inflation could turn a $6M arbitration award into a bargain.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 22, 2008 6:21 PM EDT
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What's our budget like?
If he’ll cost us $4 million to be one of the worst catchers in the league, then we need to see what Brayan or Tupman can do.
If we were Boston or NY, we could afford to tie up money in dead weight. We need to get some capable bats in the lineup, and we’ll need all the dough we can scrounge up to do it.
If, in order to upgrade from Gload to Dunn it means we’ll have to downgrade from Buck to Pena, then we have to go for it.
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by marbotty on
Aug 24, 2008 3:17 AM EDT
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His numbers over the last few years do not support the contention that should be expected to be "one of the worst catchers in the league" next year
Even with Buck getting $4M, the Royals still have lost of money to go after a top tier FA. Buck isn’t keeping the Royals from doing anything.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 24, 2008 3:30 AM EDT
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the Royals still have lost of money to go after a top tier FA
Cool — then I’d be on board with keeping him. I’d just hate to be 2 or 3 million away from signing someone like Burrell and then having to settle with Raul Ibanez. (Which is what seems to happen on annual basis, dating back to the Baird era.)
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by marbotty on
Aug 24, 2008 4:31 AM EDT
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I would stick with some hard ceilings on Dunn and Burrell
Those players have big pluses (OBP and SLG) and also some serious negatives (horrible defense which gives a lot of runs, and likely declines which should come in the not too distant future). So I’d go 3/51 or 4/64 on either of them, but that’s it. If it takes a fifth year or more money than that, then the cost/risk-benefit analysis just doesn’t work for the Royals. The downside with those guys is too big to say “we’re the Royals, so we have to overpay.” The Royals can’t afford really big, really bad contracts like that.
Also, even back in the Baird era, have the Royals actually been just “2 or 3 million away from signing someone like Burrell” and then gone for a lesser FA? That sure didn’t happen last year with Hunter. I think the Royals have usually been more than 2 or 3 million away from signing top tier FA’s.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 24, 2008 4:45 AM EDT
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Look at Kuroda last year
I may be off by a million or two, but I believe that heading into the offseason, we had around $26 million budget with which to sign free agents. $12 million went to Guillen, leaving us with ample cash to sign Kuroda, considering he went 3 years/35 million. (Okay, maybe not ample, but enough to match that contract.)
Now, there’s the old argument that KC has to overpay to sign premier free agents. I don’t know how much validity there is to that argument, but you have to think that having Hillman, who is practically a god in Japan, in the fold could have potentially negated any amount of overpayment necessary. But, let’s say we do have to overpay. How much do we need to offer? Maybe a million or two more than the Dodgers’ offer?
Instead, we signed Yabuta for $3 million, Olivo for $2 million, Mahay for $4 million, Tomko for $3 million, and Gload for $2 million. Actually, the second we signed guys like Yabuta or Mahay, that was pretty much the end of our free agency period — it effectively took us out of the running for impact players.
It’s not that these were bad signings, necessarily, when looked at in a bubble. But in the context of the team as a whole, these didn’t make sense. You don’t sign secondary players, like utility infielders and backup catchers, when you having glaring holes at the outfield corners and shortstop. You don’t take $3 million flyers on pitchers who have posted 5.55 and 4.73 ERAs in previous two seasons while pitching in the National league. And you especially don’t spend 1/3 of your free agency budget on relievers when your best talent as a GM is finding good (or "good") relievers off the scrap heap.
So, in and of itself, you’re not sinking your team by picking up Buck in 2009. But these things have a cumulative effect, and as long as there’s a limited budget, we’d be better off trying to fill holes like that with guys in our minor league system at the major league minimum, and then using the excess money to try to lure bonafide stars to the team.
As for the Baird era question, have the Royals been 2 or 3 million away from signing someone like Burrell?
We don’t know for sure what sort of offers were out there, but we do know Baird would usually go for a collection of mediocre players than for guys that have an actual track record of success. In 2005, for example, Baird spend $4 million on Elarton, $4.5 million on Redman, $5 million on an aging Reggie Sanders, $4 million on Grudz, $2 million on Dessens and $1 million on Bako. AJ Burnett went for $11 million for five years, and Kenny Rogers $8 million for two years. We could have had both of those guys in our rotation for two years, and filled in those other roles with minor league talent or guys like German and Matt Wright and been way ahead of the game.
I’m sure you’re tempted to say “hindsight is 20/20” but really, it didn’t take much imagination to know that these guys weren’t going to be much better than average at the time we signed them. All we had to do was look at their stats (or in Reggie’s case, his age and injury history.)
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by marbotty on
Aug 24, 2008 6:29 AM EDT
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Hillman is a god in Japan?
No wonder we won the war.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 24, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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I may be off by a million or two, but I believe that heading into the offseason, we had around $26 million budget with which to sign free agents. $12 million went to Guillen, leaving us with ample cash to sign Kuroda, considering he went 3 years/35 million. (Okay, maybe not ample, but enough to match that contract.)
Yeah, the Royals could have matched the offer the Dodgers made to Kuroda. Do you think if the Royals matched that offer (and for all we know, they might have), Kuroda would have picked the Royals over the Dodgers? Do you think Kuroda was eager to play for a non-contender? Do you think Kuroda was eager to go to the midwest where he could have palled around with the two other Japanese people in KC? It sure doesn’t sound like the Royals were 2 or 3 million off on Kuroda. I think in order to get him to come to KC, they would have had to offer a hell of a lot more. In fact, Dutton reported that the Royals had the biggest offer on the table to Kuroda and he still went with LA.
But, let’s say we do have to overpay. How much do we need to offer? Maybe a million or two more than the Dodgers’ offer?
Basically you’re arguing that all the Royals have to do is offer just a little bit more than other teams and that will land them a top tier FA. I think that is entirely wrong. Perhaps for some FA’s that is true. In reality, what has played out more recently is that the Royals have to offer a lot more to get a FA. Dutton said the Royals had (or likely had) the biggest offers out there for Kuroda, Silva and A.Jones and they all turned us down. So apparently offering a little more often isn’t enough. I think it is foolish to think that the Royals could have just tossed in an extra 2 or 3 million in an offer and they’d have more top tier FA’s on the team.
Instead, we signed Yabuta for $3 million, Olivo for $2 million, Mahay for $4 million, Tomko for $3 million, and Gload for $2 million. Actually, the second we signed guys like Yabuta or Mahay, that was pretty much the end of our free agency period — it effectively took us out of the running for impact players.
You couldn’t be more wrong. The Royals made offers on big FA after big FA and they got turned down time and time again. By all accounts they made big offers which were turned down. They upped their offers and they were turned down. And after all of the top tier FA’s were gone, they went with guys like Olivo, Mahay and Tomko.
You don’t sign secondary players, like utility infielders and backup catchers, when you having glaring holes at the outfield corners and shortstop.
Do you remember when these guys were signed? It was after the top tier FA’s were gone? When the Royals lost out on the top tier FA’s, should they have just packed it in and not filled any other holes?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 24, 2008 1:51 PM EDT
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Do you think Kuroda was eager to go to the midwest where he could have palled around with the two other Japanese people in KC?
…maybe he knew those two guys sucked, and figured they’d both be gone by the break!
Sarcasmâ„¢. It's the new gravy.
by jonfmorse on
Aug 24, 2008 3:42 PM EDT
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yabuta signed in november, kuroda in december
and according to this site, at least, we only offered a 4 year deal at $11 million per — or a difference of $2 million per: http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/15/its-official-dodgers-sign-hiroki-kuroda/
Sure, you can’t really trust the internets, but that would make Dutton’s claim that we offered the “most” money potentially accurate—- 4 years at $11 m is $5 million more than the Dodgers offered on a total package. But still an inferior deal.
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by marbotty on
Aug 25, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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So your whole argument hinges on Yabuta?
You think Yabuta’s little contract kept us from signing any top tier free agent? That is a ridiculous stretch. And who knows how much we offered Kuroda. If we were willing to do 4/44, then I’m sure we would have done 3 years at more than $11M per year. Overall, the evidence does not support your argument. The Royals signed one minor FA before pursuing top tier FA’s. They offered huge money to Hunter, Jones, Kuroda and others after signing Yabuta to a small contract. The rest of the lesser FA’s they signed which you mentioned (Olivo, Mahay, Tomko) were after they lost out on the top tier FA’s.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 25, 2008 3:47 PM EDT
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No, I don't think Yabuta's contract kept us from signing a top free agent
Unless we had a budget of $26 million, and we had $15 tied up in Yabuta and Guillen.
Because then the most you’re going to be able to offer is $11 million.
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by marbotty on
Aug 25, 2008 3:56 PM EDT
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So the problem was not signing some lesser FA's
The problem was investing $11M in Guillen. But of course they offered big money on Hunter before getting massively overbid and then turning to Guillen. They also offered a lot of money to A.Jones, but that didn’t work out either (thankfully). It looks like they offered a hell of a lot of money to multiple FA’s. And I don’t think they were $3M off on any of them.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 25, 2008 4:11 PM EDT
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ps we still need a DH
so defense doesn’t necessarily need to be factored in when looking at Dunn or Burrell
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by marbotty on
Aug 24, 2008 6:30 AM EDT
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If they will sign with an understanding that they'll play primarily as DH
…and I think that is unlikely.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 24, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
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His numbers over the last few years do not support the contention that should be expected to be "one of the worst catchers in the league" next year
“Out of 29 catchers with at least 250 plate appearances, Buck ranks 24th in OPS+ at 72. Out of 41 catchers with at least 1000 plate appearances since 2004, Buck ranks 33rd in OPS+ at 80.”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on
Aug 24, 2008 11:59 AM EDT
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Move Teahen to catcher!
He and MITCH should battle it out..
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 24, 2008 12:06 PM EDT
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Defense vs Offense
I think that we really need two good fast outfielders because of the huge outfield at the K. The difference between a double to the wall and an out is huge. If we are keep Guillen, then a slow power corner outfielder really does not make any sense.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on
Aug 24, 2008 7:26 PM EDT
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If his offense outweighs his defense by a lot, then it does make sense
Defense counts, and Dunn and Burrell would both give up runs with their defense. But their offense counts as well. And their hitting would more than make up for their defense.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 24, 2008 7:29 PM EDT
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Moreover
The positive effect on the Royals in particular is magnified because (1) the Royals OF isn’t exactly on the Ellsbury/Crisp/Drew anyway, so the defensive downgrade, while real, isn’t as bad as it might seem, and (2) the Royals OF offense is so far below average, that teh marginal increase in production would be greater for the Royals than other teams.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 24, 2008 7:34 PM EDT
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Ugh
I’m not picking on you, BabyBlues, but I really don’t get why people make these type of arguments and then sit around the game threads bemoaning a lack of power and patience in the lineup. Ideally, yeah, we’d get a five tool player. But what this team needs is OOMPH in the lineup and we’ve got hardly any. We need to look past the defense and bring in a real live bat.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on
Aug 24, 2008 7:34 PM EDT
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I KNEW the Royals should have traded Ho-Ram for Granderson!!!1111
Or packaged Ho-Ram and Duckworth for Sizemore
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 24, 2008 7:35 PM EDT
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Call me crazy if you want
But I would take Gator/DDJ/Guillen or Dunn over a DDJ/Guillen/Dunn outfield. I think we would win more games that way. If we can find a fast defesive outfielder who hits better with a bat then Gator, then I am all for it. I am ok with Dunn being a DH, but we just cant carry him in the outfield. It’s just not something we should do to our young talented pitching staff. The royals need a 5 tool outfielder. tThe Royals have to trade for him or grow him, its the piece that we have to get to be sucessfull. Dunn is just going to block us from getting the guy we have to have. Surely this guy exists on a major leauge team or someones AAA club. Spend what you have to and go get him.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on
Aug 25, 2008 10:56 AM EDT
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You're crazy!!!111
Sorry, Gator sucks. I know why that idea is tempting, but think about it — if Dunn’s defense is so bad that it gives back a significant amount of his offense, does it really help the situation to start an outifelder who’s a good defender, but gives back all that advantage and more by being a .600 OPS hitter?
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Aug 25, 2008 11:06 AM EDT
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If Gator is that bad..
Then we can find a upgrade with no problem. Dickerson Now! or whatever.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on
Aug 25, 2008 11:21 AM EDT
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Its not just the defense either..
Not only are the royals strapped for pop, they are also strapped for SPEED on the basepads. Find a .700 ops guy its got to be cheaper then Dunn.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on
Aug 25, 2008 11:25 AM EDT
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And then watch as the offense continues to SUCK
Sorry, but I can’t agree at all. The last thing this team needs is another shitty hitter.
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on
Aug 25, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
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A five tool OF is not available
A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.
by NHZ on
Aug 25, 2008 11:45 AM EDT
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That sounds like the Culture of Losing talking
If you would just believe in a five tool OF FA, then one will surely materialize. The Yankees and Red Sox could do it.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by NYRoyal on
Aug 25, 2008 3:48 PM EDT
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