Updated 2009 lineup

Moore will get some significant help next year

...which will upgrade that lineup. Having Mitch Maier in a major leagu lineup would be very, very sad. Standing pat will keep us under 80 wins for the forseeable future.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 8:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I will take Mitch

over Teahen in a major league lineup. He will outhit Teahen this year and is as good in the field.

by BlueBloodRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The question is

Can you qualify that? How was your analysis completed?

I really don't know what to say... Did the post above this signature make sense? Probably not.

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Aug 4, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it would be interesting to see how anyone could support such a statement

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

platoons are a good idea, depends on where you use th em

just a few thoughts (I do think about this a lot, not very smart thoughts, though)

Maier is useful as a reserve outfielder. He’ll probably be a little better or a little worse than Gathright, overall, though, so he’s best tagged as a reserve outfielder. Maybe Gator can be bait for a dumb GM (Do the Dodgers have any OF spaces left?).

DDJ is great. Moving him to a corner significantly decreases his offensive value.

Shealy might have a use as a holdover platoon guy next year. Teahen isn’t a good platoon guy for first. If they can’t find a full time 1B/DH (which Butler isn’t playing), they could get someone like Eric Hinske, if he comes cheap, who could also be a backup on the outfield corners.

I hope Teahen can (outside chance) be a useful starter, but, again, moving him to first decreases what little value his bat currently has. For Teahen, if the Royals can’t land a big bat for the outfield so as to push him into a super utility role, they’d be better off finding a right-handed platoon partner for him for the outfield corners, someone who cold also fill in for JoGui if he’s still around and on the “rare” occasion he can’t play the field . I don’t know who’s available off-hand. Some names might be Johnny Gomes (low-end), Juan Rivera, or Marcus Thames (higher end, but I still hear rumors the Tigers would be willing to move him).

Don’t overspend getting a washed up SS like Orlando Cabrera. Furcal will be too much. Aviles can be a good stopgap at worst for next year. Personally, I don’t think it’s worth a non-contender keeping a “good glove” SS on the bench at the expense of decent platoons elsewhere. Why not use Callaspo at 2B, Aviles at SS, and then have German be the backup 2B/3B. If Aviles is out, use Callaspo at SS. It’s not ideal, but it’s better overspending on somebody or wasting a spot on TPJ if it would take away a viable 1B/DH/LG platoon.

Those are just some quick thoughts. I think the Royals should try to pursue Dunn, Burrell, et. al. next offseason, but if they can’t get a guy or two like that for the right deal, I think some of the options above might be promising in terms of increasing offensive production. All of it depends, of course, on the continued development of Gordon and Butler.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 8:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Shealy comment

was only if he shows some capability. I don’t mean that I feel confident he could do it now.

Again, German should be used more if he’s around next year. I don’t see why he can’t play 1st every once in a while, maybe against lefties.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW, I've revised my thoughts on Dunn and Burrell

I wouldn’t go as long as 5 years. I think my ceiling would be 3/55 or 4/70. Hopefully the Royals could get either for less than that.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why'd you revise on Dunn?

Just curious… I was wondering about it, too, based on reading stuff where it didn’t sound like Dunn was going to need a 5-year deal because people wouldn’t go that long. Maybe the Royals will have to, but who knows.

Also what I read sounded like Dunn might be had for 15 mill/yr. That wouldn’t be so bad on a 3-4 year contract.

I also have thought from the first that, given his age, 3 years would be about right for Burrell. I also don’t see him being more expensive than Dunn, but who knows.

It sounds like whatever Teixeira gets will set the reste of the market. I don’t see him getting 10 years, though, that’s just the usual Boras propaganda. I wonder what he will get?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's about the decline curve for his kind of player

A player like him is likely to decline faster than average. So his contract needs to be shorter. If it takes a 5-year deal to sign him, I’d pass (unless he wants to go for something cheap like 5/60). $15M per year for 3-4 years would be good in my opinion. Burrell shouldn’t decline faster than average but he’s a couple years older, so they both have similar decline issues of the next 3-5 years. So I’d look to give them both only 3-4 year deals. Teixeira’s contract will affect the market, but I think everyone recognizes that he’s a different class of player from guys like Dunn and Burrell. I think he’ll get $20M per year (or more) for a very long-term contract (6+ years).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

I thought we had read the same kind of article. Did you read the stuff about Teixeira saying he and Boras would be looking for a 10-year deal?

Burrell is busting out the ol “career year” this year (149 OPS+ vs. 121 career), not showing his usual platoon splits and home/away splits. Hope that doesn’t drive up his value too much.

Dunn is the big fish, I guess, but it would be cool to get Burrel on a 3-year deal and Hinske for 1 (platoon guy at first/back OF). Nice lefty/righty combo to go with Butler/Gordon in the middle of the order. Isn’t wasting time on speculation like this fun?

1. DDJ CF
2. Aviles SS (maybe flip him and Callaspo if his OBP doesn’t hold up)
3. Burrell LF
4. Gordon 3B
5. Butler 1B/DH
6. Guillen RF (yeah, he won’t like it, but screw him. I think Billy might be better next year)
7. Hinske 1B/DH (w/platoon partner—Shealy, German, maybe Gomes? Ahead of Guillen again righties if OBP, maybe, too)
8. Callaspo 2B
9. Buck C

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boras

He always looks for 10-year deals and similarly unrealistic deals for his clients. It makes sense to attempt to place the bar there. But everyone knows that there’s no chance the contract will be that long. I love the Burrell and Hinske (or Dunn and Hinske) idea.

But here’s a problem (or perhaps THE problem). While I’m confident that Moore understands that this team needs better hitting and more power, he might not be willing to give another big contract to an all-hit, no-defense or speed player. It is legitimately possible that he doesn’t even pursue Dunn or Burrell. I don’t think he or Glass are going to go cheap and not spend in the offseason, but he could go big after someone like Furcal (the only good FA SS option).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Geez, what is Furcal going to get?

I can’t put together exactlyl the reasons why, but for some reason a big contract for a 31-year old SS seems a lot riskier than a slightly smaller one for a corner man. Probably because the defense decline more quickly and with greater consequence (see Jeter, D.), and the bat isn’t as big to begin with to carry it as if the guy has to move down the defensive spectrum.

Isn’t Furcal going to be super-expensive, anway? I know he’s been hurt, but i can see a lot of teams trying to get him.

A Furcal/Callaspo infield (I know it might end up Furcal/Aviles) would also force me to make SO many “who’s the designated driver tonight” jokes that I’d get banned about three weeks after he signed.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Furcal

All first-time FA’s are going to be around 30 years old. So a 31-year old SS doesn’t seem very old to me. Nor does it seem particularly young. Furcal will be very expensive. I really can’t guess how expensive, but he’s not a cheap option. He’s just an option that would give defense as well as hitting, and Moore would like that. While his bat isn’t exactly big, it is much higher than the average SS, so he has significant value. And it would very likely be a Furcal/Aviles IF with Callaspo as the utility IFer and German traded away (that’s my guess at least).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jayson Stark was saying

The market for Dunn is so bad, he may have to go for a Andruw Jones type deal, with less money – 2 years $20 million. That seems absurd to me, but if there is so little interest in him, we should jump at paying him 3 years $40-50 million.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 3, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

THAT's what I think I read

I was afraid it was just more Rosensquirrel speculation.

Yeah, that would awesome if the Royals could get Dnn for 3/45.

WOuldn’t Burrell be even cheaper?

I threw out the Hinske/Burrell scenario earlier because I figured Burrell would be cheaper than Dunn, and the difference could go to signing a guy like Hinske.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I sure hope that's true

...and that Moore takes the bargain deal.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he doesn't like playing baseball!!!111

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 3, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What I'd like to ask J.P.

If he doesn’t like playing baseball, then how is it that he does it so well? And, more importantly, if he performs well, then should we care how much he enjoys it?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to ask JP

Why he’s such a douchenozzle.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 3, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair, he does have to play for Dusty Baker

And they did take his recliner away a few years back (which led to some pretty funny quotes).

So, maybe playing for a charismatic leader like Trey Hillman, he would regain his love, and finally have a decent 200 OPS+ season, instead of this piddling 140 crap.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Teixeira will end up with a Zito type contract. What was it? 7 years, $140 mil? Something like that. Maybe more than the $140…. upward of $155-160 mil.

Do we want Dunn and Burrell? I think we want Dunn. I don’t know about Burrell. He seemed to be on the downside but has had a good year in a cracker jack. I’d be nervous about Dunn running around the corners of our outfield. It’s a big park and for a guy that profiles like Dunn, I wouldn’t be building my OF around him at Kauffman. But we could definately use his bat. A move to 1B or DH would be likely depending on Billy and JoGui.

But, I think we’ll get some help this offseason. I think Free Agents will see that the Royals are heading in the right direction and that will help us sign someone.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Aug 3, 2008 8:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd be happy with Dunn or Burell

Neither of them should have a ton of good years left in them, but they could/should both have 3-4 good years left (or perhaps 2-3 good years left plus another ok year or two). One good thing about signing Dunn is that he could be converted to full-time 1B (if he’s ok with that move), or perhaps part-time 1B. Or he could be transitioned to 1B over the course of a few years. His defense wouldn’t be as much of a liability there.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be too scared of Dunn

He is only gonna be 29 and even as he makes a decline in the field he will maintain that huge power stroke as a DH until he is probably 34. I don’t see his bat speed slowing anytime soon.

Burrell on the other hand has already entered the decline phase. I wouldn’t be so apt to sign him for more than 3 years.

2009 Lineup (I’m gonna say cuz no one else is)
CF DDJ
SS Aviles
DH Butler
LF Dunn
RF Guillen
3b Gordon
C Buck
1b Kila Monster
2b Callaspo

Bench
Maier, Angel Sanchez, Gload, Gathright

Pitchers
Greinke
Meche
Hochever
Davies
Rosa
Bullpen
Mahay, Nunez, RamRam, Soria, Bannister, Tejeda, HoRam

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 3, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like that as a possible second-half version of mine

Assuming Kila starts in AAA, then the Hinske/whatever platoon can be traded away if Kila keeps threatening the flight paths of low-flying airplanes in Omaha thorugh May/June.

I’l also put Dunn ahead of Butler (L/R splitup, Dunn monster OBP guy), then Gordon ahead of Guillen (Gordon’s better OBP, and he’s on the rise, I think Guillen, while not washed up, is declining). At least against righties. Oh, yeah, on that assumption, I’d put Kila ahead of Buck after he gets his deet yet.

I’m not sure with Aviles—I mean, I think he can be good at least next year, but I wonder whether he’ll lean more to the OBP side or slugging. There’s nothing terrible about a SS with a .320 OBP if he slugs .480, but then I’m not sure he should hit second…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn, Kila Monster, Guillen, Butler and Gordon

would lead to crashed planes and alot of majestic KC homers. I really think Butler is a perfect 3 type hitter once he is developed. I could easily see him being a .330 20-25 HR guy.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 3, 2008 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Kila will be ready to be that player yet.

I think making him the starting 1B opening day 2009 would be rushing him. I want to maximize his development, not rush it because we want Kila now.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can only imagine the screaming fits HIllman would throw

after repeated nights of Dunn, Gordon, and Kila going yard back-to-back-to-back after failing to get bunts down.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

I see Butler as more of a higher average, 25 HR guy, too. I was just thinking lefty/right stuff—don’t think Gordon need to go all the way down to 7th.

There were… certain people… (currently in “exhile”) who kept talking about of Butler as another Ortiz. Which would be great, except I don’t see him like that. More like Healthy Pronk or Edgar Martinez (in terms of hitting style).

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aviles

He’s always been more of a SLG guy than a OBP guy. His statistical profile has been high batting average, an OBP which isn’t much higher than his BA and a high SLG.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shouldn't Teahen and German be on that bench instead of Maier and Sanchez?

A 4-man bench should be catcher, Teahen, German and hopefully Shealy instead of Gload (and I don’t think Kila is ready for the majors).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

And no way Kila will be on the 2009 opening day roster

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 3, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope that he performs well enough early in the 2009 season in Omaha...

...that we’re debating in May if he should be called up, as we debated about Aviles.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

KILA SOON!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 3, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in love. I'm just not ready to go steady yet.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The hype is getting to me

If Kila crashes and burns in Omaha next spring, I predict riots across the Grear Plains.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 3, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would expect this tear to wear off pretty soon, honestly

Once the PCL pitchers start circulating the book on Kila, it’ll be interesting to see if/how he adjusts.

By and large, I agree with what most other folks have said here—stick him in Omaha to start 2009, and if he continues to impress, then call him up a month or two into the season.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 3, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's not going to hit a HR every night

He won’t maintain a stat line like his current .381/.409/.810/1.219. But he could still hit pretty well after pitchers adjust to him. It could happen, or maybe he drops off a lot.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its just a dream

ya probably B.Pena, Maier, Sanchez and German. I think at this point Teahen is just a scrub and Maier would offer a sub at all 3 of spots. Pena is a switch hitter so he would offer a halfway decent defensive catcher platoon. Sanchez/Kila are dreams at best but it would be nice if Sanchez could get back the hitting ability of 05-06 because he offers a nice defensive SS option. As for Kila I know it would be a total rush and I know it is early but I really don’t see the upside for Shealy and it would be nice if Kila could dismiss him.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 3, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're saying Maier would make a better bench player than Teahen?

This “just a scrub” is basically a 100 OPS player. While that’s not good enough to be a starting corner OFer (or 1B), it is damned good for a bench player and much, much better than we should expect from Maier, Lubanski or Costa. And Callaspo can backup CF, as he’s done it in the minors some and in winter league play. Simply dumping Teahen would be an amazingly bad idea. If we can get something good for him in trade which helps the team net, then I’d certainly be willing to do that. And I don’t know why Sanchez is even in the discussion when we have Callaspo and German. And as for Kila, you don’t rush him not because you don’t think he’ll be any good, but because you want to protect a good prospect and do what is best for his development. Rushing a player can harm his development. See if he tears up the PCL for a couple of months and then seriously consider calling him up.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 3, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is all pure speculation and hopes

so no ones opinion is any better than anyone elses. Where is this magical 100+ OPS you are talking about? He is a career 97 and that is with a HR weighted 122 ‘06 season. This year he is currently at 84. I think he is continually regressing and while Maier has less offensive potential he offers more flexibility in the outfield.

I was gonna write a fanpost about the Royals needing to move past the 2 Marks. Teahen is a fan fav a nice guy and projects to have a lot of tools. We as fans and the FO need to realize ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. I have been sold on the Teahen bag of tricks just look at the dude he looks like he has a huge upper body and should develop into a power player but it ain’t gonna happen. Before ‘06 he had only 1 double digit HR total EVER in his career and that was a 14 HR season in the minors. Hardly power numbers, his long swing is leading to more and more strikeouts and lazy flyballs and he isn’t making any kind of adjustment. See if Boston will bite his swing should play perfectly in that park. It is time to move on from Mark “Never gonna live it” Teahen. I would prefer a RH 4th OF’r myself but KC doesn’t really have any of those in the system.

And Callaspo can backup CF, as he’s done it in the minors some and in winter league play.

Your scouting reports on him are old and wore out this guy doesn’t have the speed. I know you follow those like the bible but WATCH him he doesn’t have the range. If he did I’m sure he would’ve played SS at the 100-150 Pena AB mark. The FO/Mgr doesn’t think he can play SS so what makes you think they think he could play CF?

Like I said before Sanchez and Kila are total dream shots. If Kila kills all month long comes up in September and mashes and kills in spring training right or wrong the FO would have no choice but to let him play. You can’t always play everything by the book or alot of other great players wouldn’t have made it to the big leagues when they did. As for Sanchez if it wasn’t for his injury and the aquisition of Pena there would be a more than probable chance he would’ve been on the big league team this year. I don’t think KC will go after a big league SS I really could see them give a audtion of Sanchez vs TPJ next year as a safety net in case Aviles loses his magic. Sanchez has already been called up in September once he could very well compete for a spot on the roster next year.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You do realize SS is a HARDER position than CF, right?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 4, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is all pure speculation and hopes so no ones opinion is any better than anyone elses

Really. So if I wanted Rowdy Hardy to anchor the staff and TPJ batting cleanup, then my opinion wouldn’t be any better or worse than anyone else’s?

Where is this magical 100+ OPS you are talking about? He is a career 97 and that is with a HR weighted 122 ‘06 season.

100 was an estimation. 97 is very close to 100. And that career average includes an uncharacteristically good season (2006) and an uncharacteristically bad season (2008). Career averages take everything into account. You can’t just excise the good or the bad.

I think he is continually regressing and while Maier has less offensive potential he offers more flexibility in the outfield.

There’s really no reason to believe that at Teahen’s age he’s going to get worse. And you really do love the AAA guys, don’t you? Teahen can play LF, RF, 3B and 1B. He gives the team more defensive flexibility than Maier. And Callaspo can backup CF.

Teahen is a fan fav a nice guy and projects to have a lot of tools. We as fans and the FO need to realize ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

I’m not saying that IT IS GONNA HAPPEN. I’m saying he’s more than good enough to be a good super utility guy. Do you think that good bench players usually have an OPS over .800? Because I don’t think he’ll power back is the reason that I don’t want him starting in the OF. I want him on the bench most of the time. And the fact that he isn’t going to turn into the 2006 Teahen again is not a reason to dump him in favor of a crappy Mitch Maier.

Your scouting reports on him are old and wore out this guy doesn’t have the speed. I know you follow those like the bible but WATCH him he doesn’t have the range.

Since the opinions of scouts mean nothing to you, then maybe you’ll be moved by what I saw with my own eyes. A local sports channel in NYC televised some of the Caribbean World Series games including the Venezuelan team. And Callaspo was the CFer for that team. He performed quite well in the field with decent CF range. That was my amateur scouting opinion, and it was also echoed by at least one Basebal Prospectus analyst commenting on the CWS earlier this year. He has the speed and the range. I saw it. Others saw it. You can believe it.

The FO/Mgr doesn’t think he can play SS so what makes you think they think he could play CF?

The loved Pena’s defense, then they were willing to try Aviles’s bat. Callaspo doesn’t have Pena’s defense or Aviles’s bat. But that doesn’t mean they don’t think he can ever play SS. But we’re not talking SS, we’re talking CF at the moment.

As for Sanchez if it wasn’t for his injury and the aquisition of Pena there would be a more than probable chance he would’ve been on the big league team this year.

That’s true. But he did have the injury and this year he’s not hitting. He’s not a major league player. He’s yet to prove that he’s even close to one.

I don’t think KC will go after a big league SS I really could see them give a audtion of Sanchez vs TPJ next year as a safety net in case Aviles loses his magic. Sanchez has already been called up in September once he could very well compete for a spot on the roster next year.

Maybe there’s a 5% chance that this will happen, but there’s no reason it should. Angel Sanchez really sucks. It looks like he sucks in a very TPJ way. I don’t know why anyone would want him on the Royals. Good fielding. Can’t hit at all. .658 OPS in AA this year, .593 OPS in AAA. Wow. Neither his skills nor his performance warrant him being even a top 25 Royals prospect. The guy simply isn’t very good at all. Maybe if he completely turns things around next year in Omaha, the Royals could consider him for something. Right now I’d put him behind TPJ on the depth chart, and I wouldn’t seriously consider having TPJ on the 25-man roster.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can you get over the AAA guys

100 was an estimation. 97 is very close to 100. And that career average includes an uncharacteristically good season (2006) and an uncharacteristically bad season (2008). Career averages take everything into account. You can’t just excise the good or the bad.

I think he is much closer to the 84 than the 100 you are talking about. If you toss out the 122 which you should because he took a totally different approach to hitting that season then his OPS read like this 82, 98, 84. If he is gonna be a 84 OPS guy then KC should carry a back up CF because DDJ’s defensive range will probably start to decline in a year or two. Whether that CF is Joey G or Maier or someone else toss a coin. YOU know that Teahen career average is totally weighted by that 122 he is much more closer to that 84 I shouldn’t have to explain that.

He performed quite well in the field with decent CF range. That was my amateur scouting opinion, and it was also echoed by at least one Basebal Prospectus analyst commenting on the CWS earlier this year. He has the speed and the range. I saw it. Others saw it. You can believe it.

You have this affection for Callaspo that I can’t explain we argued for a month about him over Aviles and now he suddenly can play CF. No freakin Way. I could care less what his ‘04 scouting report says and the Carribean league world series says. How many of those players on his team were of major league quality? Who was he playing with? Manny Ramirez could probably play 3b in the Dominican League that doesn’t mean he can play it in the Majors. I understand SS is harder to play than CF but he doesnt have the speed or apparently the recognition to play either. For a average to below average speed middle infielder you have to have good recognition skills to make up for your speed. Obviously Callaspo does not have that or he would’ve been given more of a shot at SS. We all know that the FO didn’t want to play Aviles at SS he wasn’t their first, second or third option but he forced it down their throat and it worked out. IF they really had a scouting report that said he could play SS he would’ve been playing it more. Alberto is a Second baseman and that’s it maybe a relief corner OF’r in the mold of Gload/German.

Maybe there’s a 5% chance that this will happen, but there’s no reason it should. Angel Sanchez really sucks. It looks like he sucks in a very TPJ way. I don’t know why anyone would want him on the Royals. Good fielding. Can’t hit at all. .658 OPS in AA this year, .593 OPS in AAA. Wow. Neither his skills nor his performance warrant him being even a top 25 Royals prospect

Angel is a total reach I am basing it purely off the FO and Trey affection for defense. They might succumb to the Pena DFA pressure. That being said he hasn’t hit as terribly as what the stats say. He is a better hitter than TPJ. Less K’s, lead all minor leaguers in hits in 2005 with 182, 2006 hit in the .280’s and recorded his first hit of Johan Santana, 2007 injured, 2008 had a very poor start in April with a .181 BA recovered in May with a .333 BA and in June with a .280. Had a similar bad start in Omaha but has hit better recently. I think that he would struggle to hit at first in KC but would eventually develop into a more consistent version of Pena’s first year. He is TPJ jr without the K’s.

And you really do love the AAA guys, don’t you?

I don’t love the AAA guys but where else is KC gonna get players. My choices for replacements are AAA guys or make up or invent possible trades. You stereotype me with this tag constantly I just don’t think it is too far fetched to pull these guys from the choices we have in the bigs.

Maier vs Teahen- Yes Teahen is a better hitter but he doesn’t offer defensive versatility which Trey likes.
Sanchez vs TPJ- Probably would’ve been the argument this year without the injury. Essentially the same player one is younger they both offer the defensive replacement in late innings. Sanchez is a better contact hitter and could probably lay down a bunt. Defense is similar TPJ probably slight edge.
Shealy vs Kila- I don’t this matters. Shealy will fail in September and Gload will probably be on the 09 roster but one can dream that Kila is a patient HR machine. Shealy is the reincarnation of Joe Vitiello big guy looks like he should be able to slug but just can’t.

Another just for the record scouts opinions do mean things to me if they are current opinions. Most of those Callaspo scouting reports are from ‘04. Some players abilities change in a couple years. I don’t doubt at one time Callaspo might have had average to above average speed but he is average at best now. No different than what some of the scouts have said about current players in the system.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

YOU know that Teahen career average is totally weighted by that 122 he is much more closer to that 84 I shouldn’t have to explain that.

I don’t know what “totally weighted” means, but it is also “totally weighted” by this season which is well below his career average. No, he’s not closer to an 84 OPS player.

You have this affection for Callaspo that I can’t explain we argued for a month about him over Aviles and now he suddenly can play CF. No freakin Way. I could care less what his ‘04 scouting report says and the Carribean league world series says. How many of those players on his team were of major league quality? Who was he playing with?

So you don’t care about the scouting reports (and no one is talking about 2004) and you don’t care about what he’s done this year. What do you care about? Just dismissing him? How you can champion minor league mediocrity like Maier and yet write off someone with genuine upside like Callaspo is beyond me. And what difference does it make who he was playing with. My point was not that he was playing CF, therefore he’s a decent defensive CFer. My point was exactly what I said. He showed decent defensive skills, including range, in CF in the games I saw and at least one analyst had the same opinion of his CF skills.

I understand SS is harder to play than CF but he doesnt have the speed or apparently the recognition to play either

I disagree, scouts disagree and baseball analysts disagree. But you’re entitled to your opinion.

Obviously Callaspo does not have that or he would’ve been given more of a shot at SS. We all know that the FO didn’t want to play Aviles at SS he wasn’t their first, second or third option but he forced it down their throat and it worked out. IF they really had a scouting report that said he could play SS he would’ve been playing it more.

That assumption is no more than a guess. They stuck with Pena because they wanted his defense at short and they wanted his hitting to come around. By the time they were willing to give up on him, Aviles was the next choice because he was hitting like an All-Star in AAA. Your assumption that Callaspo didn’t play more SS because they know he can’t handle it is unsupported.

That being said he hasn’t hit as terribly as what the stats say

How so? Because you’ve seen him play and you like his swing or approach? No matter what you saw that you liked, if your OPS is around .600, you’re hitting like shit. There’s no way to dress that up. And it’s not like he’s ever hit well in the majors. His only season with an OPS over .700 was in the very hitter friendly High Desert. Even with that season, his career minor league OPS is a putrid .664. And there are absolutely no signs that he’s improving at the plate. He hasn’t been much better than TPJ in the minors and TPJ didn’t start playing baseball until many years later than Sanchez. Even if he’s better than TPJ, there’s no reason to have him on a major league roster next year.

I don’t love the AAA guys but where else is KC gonna get players.

You want to dump average MLB players (Teahen) for mediocre AAA players like Maier. And you want to play someone really truly crappy like Sanchez over either Callaspo or German. That’s just nuts and it bespeaks a love for AAA players that goes far beyond logic or reason.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This quote says it all about you.

You want to dump average MLB players (Teahen) for mediocre AAA players like Maier. And you want to play someone really truly crappy like Sanchez over either Callaspo or German. That’s just nuts and it bespeaks a love for AAA players that goes far beyond logic or reason.

This is how you rope everyone into every argument with you by typing things people didn’t say. It is a major reoccurence.
Anyway- I didn’t say get rid of German or Callaspo. I said I don’t think and I would bet the FO doesn’t think Callaspo can play CF. If they did why have they never put him out there. They don’t even like playing him at SS which is closer to his natural position.

Teahen IS NOT AVERAGE you need to get past it. Try to reason it all you want but OPS+ of 86,97,84 is NOT AVERAGE. If you are gonna keep a guy on the roster that is below average keep the cheaper alternative especially as I said above with the coaching staffs pension for defensive alternatives.

And what difference does it make who he was playing with. My point was not that he was playing CF, therefore he’s a decent defensive CFer.

This does matter if his team is a mish mosh of less talented players you are gonna put your most athletically gifted player in one spot CF to make up for the less talented less athletic RF/LF.

So you don’t care about the scouting reports (and no one is talking about 2004)

What recent scouting reports after ‘04 are you talking about. I meant to say ‘06 got my years crossed but that is my point most those scouting reports are a couple years old and Callaspo could’ve easily lost some speed in the meantime because he doesn’t appear to be a above average runner. In fact Trey constantly was talking about speed on this team and he point blank said only Joey has +speed on this team. I’m gonna believe the current coaching staffs opinion of Callaspo not being able to play CF if they didn’t believe he had the range for SS. I just don’t buy your scouting reports he has started 21 games at SS and made 5 errors. I know that is a small sample size but there has to be more than just Aviles was hot. They waited a awfully long time to Mike at SS.
All that being said Callaspo should be the starting 2b. I have confidence in his ability to fit there and put up similar stats to Grudz. Good average high OBP and average range for a 2b.

No matter what you saw that you liked, if your OPS is around .600, you’re hitting like shit. There’s no way to dress that up. And it’s not like he’s ever hit well in the majors

This coaching staff obviously likes to have defensive alternatives as fill ins and prefers defense. Ex Pena (2months hitting like a pitcher) Gload, Gathright. Therefore if you are gonna choose between the two I choose Sanchez. Say what you will but he is a better hitter than TPJ and will definitely be a better hitter than TPJ in the future. Just his pure ability to pick up a bat and not strikeout 100 times and lay down a bunt when asked tells you that. He is coming off an injury and took a month to adjust back and then is adjusting at AAA. I don’t care how long TPJ has played he doesn’t show any pension for adjustments.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've made all of my roster picks based of 2 things

Dreams- What I hope would happen and Coaching Patterns – What I believe the coaching staff has appeared to do in the past. I would like this team to carry different bench players but I would bet they won’t.

I mean come on anyone can say that we all know Gload is gonna be on the team next year. Would anyone equally be shocked if TPJ was too. Especially if KC doesn’t land a FA SS.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We don't KNOW Gload will be on the team next year

Your certainty is misplaced. He may well be on the team. But Moore has shown a willingness to cut ties with players that he’s signed when they have proven to be mistakes. He did it with Tomko. He did it with Yabuta. The fact that he hasn’t done it yet with Gload doesn’t mean he’ll necessarily be with the team in 2009. He may well be. It wouldn’t surprise me. But, if Moore goes out and gets a real 1B, will he definitely want to stick with Gload as well? That’s an open question. Apparently you think Moore is going to stand pat if the above roster is a prediction. Except that you think Moore is going to sign Dunn. But you’ve argued that the FO and coaching staff value defense. If so, why would they sign Dunn? Your predictions and their rationales seem to be contradictory.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyway- I didn’t say get rid of German or Callaspo

And yet German wasn’t in your above dream roster.

I said I don’t think and I would bet the FO doesn’t think Callaspo can play CF. If they did why have they never put him out there.

Because we have Gathright.

They don’t even like playing him at SS which is closer to his natural position.

They had Pena, and then Aviles. The fact that’s he’s not a great defensive SS does not mean he can’t be an effective backup CFer.

Teahen IS NOT AVERAGE you need to get past it. Try to reason it all you want but OPS+ of 86,97,84 is NOT AVERAGE.

So if you take out his best year, then he’s not average. Can we take out his worst year too and then figure the average then?

If you are gonna keep a guy on the roster that is below average keep the cheaper alternative especially as I said above with the coaching staffs pension for defensive alternatives.

Your desire to just git rid of Teahen because you apparently think he isn’t good for any role on a Royals 25-man roster is just ludicrous. Apparently if a guy doesn’t live up to your standards as a starter, then you don’t even want him on the bench. You’d rather have a mediocre AAA player. And then as soon as that mediocre AAA player has a bad couple of months, you’ll be on to the next mediocre AAA OFer. Lubanski Now!

This does matter if his team is a mish mosh of less talented players you are gonna put your most athletically gifted player in one spot CF to make up for the less talented less athletic RF/LF.

Let me say this yet again. My point wasn’t that he was playing the position, so therefor he’s a legit CFer. My point was that he played it well, therefore it sure looks to me (and at least one guy at BP) like he can handle the position in a backup situation. If DeJesus were to go on the DL, and the CF position would need to get filled for an extended period of time, someone else could get called up.

I meant to say ‘06 got my years crossed but that is my point most those scouting reports are a couple years old and Callaspo could’ve easily lost some speed in the meantime because he doesn’t appear to be a above average runner.

First, he doesn’t appear to have decent speed to you. I certainly don’t share that opinion. And I don’t know if you’ve seen him enough to have a great opinion of that. Second, what is the likelihood that a player loses foot speed between the ages of 23 and 25? I think that makes your subjective judgment of his speed more than a little suspect.

This coaching staff obviously likes to have defensive alternatives as fill ins and prefers defense.

You seem to be going back and forth with this hypothetical roster. Sometimes you talk about it being your dream of what you’d like to have and you defend it, telling me why it would be the best lineup the Royals can put together. Other times you talk about it as if it is a prediction and that it will be like that because the FO or coaching staff likes this or that. Even in discussing Sanchez you go back and forth from telling me why he’d be a decent choice to telling me that is what the FO and coaching staff will probably want. So, which is it? Is the above roster a prescription of what you think would be best or a prediction of what you think will happen?

Say what you will but he is a better hitter than TPJ and will definitely be a better hitter than TPJ in the future.

Definitely? You can’t say “definitely” about any prospect. And I really don’t think you can say that one guy who is a truly awful minor league hitter is going to be better in the majors than another guy who was a truly awful minor league hitter.

. He is coming off an injury and took a month to adjust back and then is adjusting at AAA.

And yet he’s still hitting like he’s hit throughout his minor league career. Look, if we’re making predictions, if the FO and coaching staff definitely require a middle IFer on the 25-man roster who can play above average defense at SS, they aren’t going to go with either TPJ or Sanchez (who doesn’t show a glimmer of major league ability—and the FO doesn’t really love him as they didn’t even bother to put him on the 40-man roster last winter to protect him from the rule 5 draft). They’ll go out and get someone through trade. Even if they just want a bench player to backup Aviles, they can easily acquire someone better than TPJ and Sanchez.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In fairness

“Now” counts for more than “two years ago,” too. I love Teahen as much as anyone, but unless he gets his shit together pronto, he’s a below-average player who had a fluke season in 2006.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 4, 2008 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose now counts for more, but I don't think in evaluating a player we can or should write off his best season while including his worst season

Players do have up years and down years. I think it is tempting to say that whatever a player is doing in his current season is the real deal, but I don’t now why that would necessarily be true. Last year at this time, one could have said that DeJesus’s “now” counted for more than two years ago, but he has proven that last year’s season was merely a down year. I think the real Teahen is shown in his career averages. And I think his batted ball data supports this. His LD% is actually better this year than 2006. His fly ball rate is up a little from last year, though not as high as 2006. And he’s been just a little unlucky with his BABIP. He’s also been very unlucky with his IF hit %age which is well down from 2006 and 2007. Long story short, if he were to play this season out again, the results would likely be better and closer to his career averages.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't misunderstand

I think that you can always have a bad year, obviously, and if that bad year is “this year” you have to take it with a grain of salt.

But the reality is… 2006 is the only time Teahen has been an above-average player. One of these things is not like the others, and 2008 isn’t the outlier.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 4, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But shouldn't you also take a player's rookie year with a grain of salt?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I could agree with

that if he doesn’t revert back to that player.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So if a player ever has a season later in his career that was like his rookie season...

....then you don’t take it with a grain of salt? Come on, now.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll go with the larger sample size

he has played far more games at below average to average than he has played the other.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NY I hope you are right

I think most everyone on here hopes Teahen is better than what he has showed. I just don’t think it would be a big mistake for the FO to trade him and try to add some value.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think it would be a mistake for the Royals to trade him for something that improves the team

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

By the time we agree on which “at-bats” count for Teahen, we’ll be down to about 58 ABs.

THAT’S a strong sample.

8^P

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 4, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure.

Or, alternatively, “Not until he gives you a good excuse.”

But the major point here is that there is one truly significant outlier in his career, and that’s 2006, not 2008.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 4, 2008 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have lost it

I think you sit on here and wait for a chance to rip someones pure speculative opinions without actually stating one yourself. You are acting like you are Dayton Moore. Judging from the statements of the FO and Trey Hillman I think one could easily come to the educated opinion that Gload will be on next years roster. I do think that the FO won’t like Dunn’s defense that much but the OB ability and his power overways his lack of defense.

Second, what is the likelihood that a player loses foot speed between the ages of 23 and 25?

It is happening to Chris Lubanski so why couldn’t it happen to Alberto.

Even in discussing Sanchez you go back and forth from telling me why he’d be a decent choice to telling me that is what the FO and coaching staff will probably want. So, which is it?

It is a guess. I am just backing up the opinions that I set on the roster. In reality I would doubt that most of the guesses would come true but when you put it down you have to back up how you made that decision. You act as if your opinion is end all be all. Then you toss out things like scouting reports I’ve read. Have you read a ‘08 scouting report on Callaspo? And if you have pass it on I would like to read it as I’m sure alot of others on this site would. I have read the musing of ‘06 and I think it is very probable that he lost a step in the last 2 years. Either that or maybe the coaching staff/FO lacks confidence in him. Whatever the case he wasn’t getting much to any PT at all. If he is the player that you and your scouting reports think he is then I would be highly disappointed they didn’t play him more when they had a chance. They lack confidence in him THAT should be at least obvious to you. If that is the case what makes you think they are gonna let him play CF? Based on all of that I think Callaspo will be lucky to be on the roster let alone play CF.

they aren’t going to go with either TPJ or Sanchez

This is you typical reasoning. You don’t know, I don’t know it is pure speculation. If it was up to you Aviles would never have even been given a chance. You didn’t want to give him 25 AB’s let alone 200 so quit acting like you know exactly what is going to happen. WE are all guessing and no matter what your brain tells you, you are guessing too. Your leaning to things you’ve read doesn’t make your opinion any better than anyone elses on here. I’m sure if fans would’ve laid out the scenario of this season there is no way we would think that Pena would still be on this team at this point in the season. Tell me if Dayton Moore didn’t believe in Sanchez at all why did he call him up in ‘06 and then move him to AAA after just two decent months at AA. Something tells me he likes him. He obviously likes that profile slick fielding light hitting SS otherwise he would’ve never traded for Pena.

Definitely? You can’t say "definitely" about any prospect. And I really don’t think you can say that one guy who is a truly awful minor league hitter is going to be better in the majors than another guy who was a truly awful minor league hitter.

Come on to say that someone is a better hitter than TPJ can ABSOLUTELY POSSITIVELY be said. TPJ is the equivalent of sending the Sunday slow pitch softball SS out there to take AB’s. The guy IS the worst hitting positional player in the majors and he would probably be at best in the middle of hitting pitchers. Lack of power, long swing, no strikezone judgement, no ability to adjust = possibly the worst hitting positional player in the game currently.

So if you take out his best year, then he’s not average. Can we take out his worst year too and then figure the average then?

You can figure it however you want but I am pulling out the anomaly. He is not that player. He changed his approach to try to save his spot on the roster. He is not an average player unless he goes back to the approach of ‘06 which I highly doubt he will.

I would like you to put your roster down. Explain how you come up with Callaspo playing CF and base it more off the “current happenings” not off a ‘06 scouting report. Explain to me how you get from part timer to drunkin DL to starting 2b and backup CF. I think that is far too much responsibility for a player that lacks FO and manager confidence. I think he is closer to being DFA’d to management regular. I would think it would be easier to find a 2b in a pinch and that is why KC would want a backup SS on the roster.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you sit on here and wait for a chance to rip someones pure speculative opinions without actually stating one yourself.

Boy, the one thing I’ve never been accused of is failing to state my opinion. Am I not sharing my opinion? I still don’t get if you’re saying what you think will happen or what you think should happen. You seem to be all over the place in that regard.

You are acting like you are Dayton Moore.

Huh? I’m basically debating with you about how good certain players are and whether player X is better than player Y. How is that me acting like I’m Dayton Moore? Because I’m saying Teahen is better than Maier?

Judging from the statements of the FO and Trey Hillman I think one could easily come to the educated opinion that Gload will be on next years roster.

I will readily admit that it is definitely possible that Gload will be on the team next year. It might even be likely that he’ll be on the team. And if you’d said that, then I wouldn’t have objected. But you didn’t say that. You said that we know that he will be on the team next year. No qualification, just certainty. Now we don’t know that this will definitely happen. We don’t even know how likely it is. We can speculate, however.

I do think that the FO won’t like Dunn’s defense that much but the OB ability and his power overways his lack of defense.

Maybe you’re right and maybe you’re wrong. If we’re back to guessing what Moore will do, then Dunn is a definite maybe. There is reason to think Moore might be interested in him and reason to think that he might not as well.

It is happening to Chris Lubanski so why couldn’t it happen to Alberto.

I asked what was the likelihood that his footspeed decreased from age 23 to 25, and you respond by showing me one occurrence where this has happened. Yes baseball players do sometimes lose foot speed from age 23 to age 25. But it is rare, so again, what is the likelihood that this has happened? The answer is that it is very unlikely, particularly if he exhibited pretty good range in CF with that speed this winter.

It is a guess

I still don’t get which of these guesses are about what you think is most likely to happen and what you think would be best. It seems like you’re arguing both at the same time.

They lack confidence in him THAT should be at least obvious to you. If that is the case what makes you think they are gonna let him play CF?

For the most part, I’m not making any predictions here on what they will do. I thought we were discussing what would be best for the Royals 2009 roster, not what we thought was most likely to happen. But since you started talking about what you think they will do above, I engaged in some of that, which led to you saying this:

This is you typical reasoning. You don’t know, I don’t know it is pure speculation.

Yes, and I was sharing my opinion. There’s no good reason to believe that the Royals would stand pat with horrible players like Pena or Sanchez on the 25-man roster.

If it was up to you Aviles would never have even been given a chance.

Because I wouldn’t have called him up in May, therefore I never would have called him up? Of course that’s not true. Would you tone down the BS exaggerations?

so quit acting like you know exactly what is going to happen

I dont know any better than you. I’m just speculating too. But in this instance, I think my speculation makes more sense.

Tell me if Dayton Moore didn’t believe in Sanchez at all why did he call him up in ‘06 and then move him to AAA after just two decent months at AA. Something tells me he likes him. He obviously likes that profile slick fielding light hitting SS otherwise he would’ve never traded for Pena.

I’m sure he likes his defense. But the fact that he called him up in 06 for a cup of coffee doesn’t mean he’d want him on the roster in 2008. There’s been a major injury and a failure to improve since 2006. You’d expect a good prospect to improve some over that period of time. Sanchez has not. That’s why his prospect status has dropped. There’s no reason to believe it hasn’t dropped in Moore’s eyes as well. Just because he likes defense doesn’t mean we should expect him to play any and every good defense, no-hit player he can get his hands on.

Come on to say that someone is a better hitter than TPJ can ABSOLUTELY POSSITIVELY be said.

No, you can’t “absolutely positively” say anything about any prospect. You can put it in all caps all you want, but that doesn’t make it so. Pena has a career OPS+ of 48. Do you think every slick fielding, no-hit middle IFer in the minors would do better than that in the majors? Of course not.

You can figure it however you want but I am pulling out the anomaly.

You are arbitrarily saying that the best year is an anomaly and excising it as if it is irrelevant to his career. If you take out his best year, it is equally logical to take out his worst year too, that is if you care about a fair evaluation of the player. Of, of course you could just look at his entire career.

Kscoliny, I will ask you yet again, is your above roster your statement of what would be best for the Royals or what you think is most likely to happen? It seems like it is a mix of both. That kind of makes it hard for me to analyze or discuss it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My roster

Kscoliny, I will ask you yet again, is your above roster your statement of what would be best for the Royals or what you think is most likely to happen?

is a mishmosh of hopes and thoughts of what the FO would do. It is neither what is best for the team or likely what is gonna happen. It is a random guess/dream. I would love for Kila to go all Barry Bonds like and turn into a BB/HR machine thru AAA/ML and shove himself down the throats of the FO so much that they HAVE to play him.
This roster liklihood is about 1% probability. I didn’t put together my most likely roster because to be honest I think it would be kind of boring. Not many changes maybe 1 or 2 spots. My roster is that of a ‘09 miracle contending team that mashes HR’s the way no team in KC history has.

Although I understand your view about many players on my roster I would not be shocked at all for KC to have either Pena or Sanchez on the ‘09 roster. Unless they land a every day SS on the FA market I would think those 2 would be decent defensive fill ins. Looking at 2b/SS FA’s besides Cabrera, O. Hudson, Furcal there is not much offense + defense out there. If KC isn’t gonna land one of those three then standing pat might be what they do.

Pena has a career OPS+ of 48.

As far as this is concerned. Come on you want to debate Pena’s ability to hit versus someone else? I will not debate pure craziness.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, I guess I'm done

I still don’t get your roster. I don’t know which parts are predictions and which parts are prescriptions, which makes it hard to even discuss it, so I guess I’m done. And yes, there are horrible hitting, slick fielding middle IFers throughout the minors who wouldn’t be able to top an OPS+ of 48. The vast majority of them never get to the majors because they’ve shown themselves to be such horrible hitters. God willing, Moore will see it that way and never call up Sanchez again for anything but a cup of coffee as a defensive replacement.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TPJ vs Angel Sanchez

On no level has TPJ outhit Sanchez so I do believe it to be quite ridiculous to think he would be a better hitter than Sanchez in the majors.

Sanchez career high in K’s is 63 at no full season was Pena ever close to that low of output. Pena’s minor league BB high was 24 while Sanchez’s BB totals arent impressive his totals in complete season are nearly double Pena’s average. Sanchez’s career OPS is .050 better than Penas and he is better at every stat other than 3b’s and HR’s both stats that are far from impressive for both.

All this being said I only validate Sanchez over Pena if tf there is a choice between only those two.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On no level has TPJ outhit Sanchez so I do believe it to be quite ridiculous to think he would be a better hitter than Sanchez in the majors.

When the difference between two players minor league numbers is only 50 points of OPS, then one cannot say that the one player is “DEFINITELY” or “ABSOLUTELY” going to be better in the majors than the other.

All this being said I only validate Sanchez over Pena if tf there is a choice between only those two.

Thankfully there is little reason to choose between the two. When one’s choices are between horrible A and horrible B, one starts looking for option C.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thankfully there is little reason to choose between the two. When one’s choices are between horrible A and horrible B, one starts looking for option C.

This is ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY TRUE no matter how much we disagree about the two players.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also I would like to see your 25 man roster

for next year.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which one?

What I think is most likely to happen or what I would do if I were GM? I think the first is very hard to guess at.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Either one

or you can do a multiple as I did. I don’t really think there is any chance Kila is up in September let alone on the big league roster come next year.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can give you a roster that I'd put together off the top of my head below

I’ll move it to the left at the bottom of the page since we’re getting pretty narrow.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude... come on, man, you're losing it here.

I could care less what his ‘04 scouting report says and the Carribean league world series says. How many of those players on his team were of major league quality? Who was he playing with? Manny Ramirez could probably play 3b in the Dominican League that doesn’t mean he can play it in the Majors.

Now, really, I KNOW you don’t mean this, or at least have the sense to be embarrassed at having said it. The level of your competition has about as much to do with your ability to FIELD a position as MY consumption of Ho-Hos has to do with YOUR weight.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 4, 2008 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I am saying

is if you and I piece together a team today what are we gonna do. We are gonna put the most athletically gifted and or fastest player in CF. We are talking about the Carribean World Series not all of his teammates were ML players so if they had a more talented SS then where do you go next? CF, what NY saw on TV doesn’t make him a above average CF or even a fill in.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what NY saw on TV doesn’t make him a above average CF or even a fill in

You don’t get it. You are right that the composition of the team is what necessitated that Callaspo be the starting CFer. But the skills he showed, his range, glove and arm in CF have nothing to do with how good his teammates were. We’re not saying that he’ll likely be the Royals backup CFer next year because he played some CF in winter ball. I’m saying that the skills he exhibited showed that he can handle the position. And jonfmorse is pointing out that the quality of his teammates doesn’t affect how well he plays CF. His skills are his skills.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Butler Batting 3rd?

The same 22 year old that has a 91 OPS+? Why put that kind of pressure on a 22 year old that’s not at league average yet?

by stlfan on Aug 4, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They have him all over the lineup anyway. 4th, 5th, etc.

Butlers hitting profile to me is the only one who really fits the 3 hole IMO. This is to say he continues to hit like he is hitting currently.

Hopefully is May is just a bad month and he is closer to the player he has been in the second half.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

eww

That bench depresses me. I do like the Kila Monster nickname, though I doubt he’d be ready.

by BrRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Undervalued talent

To me, I think Dunn is really the only FA worth pursuing; however, the Royals have several holes to fill in LF, 1B, SS. After watching the White Sox this weekend, it got me to thinking about how they snagged Carlos Quentin. For the record, I think Aviles should be our second baseman next year. Some ideas for undervalued trade canidates or buy low canidates: Ryan Garko, Asdrubal Cabrera, Brent Lillibridge, Ronny Cedeno, Felix Pie, Brandon Wood, Chin Lung Hu, Andre Ethier, JJ Hardy, Daric Barton, etc. It appears that there are many more SS canidates available.

Honestly, I think we sign a big time FA like Dunn or Burrell and do a challenge trade for someone like those mentioned above with someone like Teahen or one of our pitching prospects for bait. Plugging those in would significantly upgrade the lineup and give us a serious shot at the central in my opinion.

by lordbyronk on Aug 3, 2008 11:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the number of sell-low SS trade candidates

(Hu, Lillibridge, et al.) is partly why I think it would be better to pass on Furcal and chase after Dunn or Burrell with David Glass’s money in the offseason. I hope the rumors about the lack of interest in Dunn are true—normally, a guy who is leading the league in HRs in the final year of his contract gets a crapload of money thrown at him in the winter.

But all other things being equal, I think a lineup with, say, Hu/Lillibridge and Dunn/Burrell is probably going to be substantially more productive than a lineup with Furcal and Teahen.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 4, 2008 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd prefer adding one of Dunn/Burrell for the OF and someone like Hinske for 1B

And go with Aviles at SS and Callaspo or German at 2B. I’d much rather gamble on Aviles than on someone like Hu. And I think it is pretty clear that Callaspo or German can handle 2B.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

that would be an acceptable solution too. It’s good to see German get some playing time, he’s putting up a typical season for him once he has gotten the at bats and I wouldn’t be opposed to that lineup. The only concern would be on defense.

by lordbyronk on Aug 4, 2008 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about

Having Hu/Lillibridge at short, Callaspo at 2nd, Aviles at 3rd, and shifting Gordon to first, with German as the backup utility infielder? Gordon’s bat loses some value moving over to first, but we will have excellent defense up the middle of the diamond, and Aviles can probably handle third much better than shortstop.

I seriously don’t know if we will have the bucks to pay for both a Hinske type and a Dunn/Burrell type this offseason. Thin as the market is for first basemen, I think it is fairly likely that someone will try to overpay for Hinske. Don’t get me wrong—I think that Hinske will make a better infield, especially under the scenario you offer (he can platoon with Butler against LHPs, with Butler DHing otherwise). But I don’t know how likely it is that we will manage that financially.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 4, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like your infield shuffle idea

my only concern is can Aviles/Gordon carry the bat for their respective positions. Defensively, I think it would be very solid. Would Hinske really be all that much better than Shealy or Kila platooning with Butler? I’m not really sold on him, but there aren’t many other options either.

by lordbyronk on Aug 4, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Aviles would be an above-league average 3b offensively

Even assuming he regresses somewhat from his current numbers, I think he’ll be at or above league average for every IF position except first base.

Gordon may not at first, but if he keeps developing, he could. Even though his average has hovered around .250 this year and he still strikes out a lot, there have been some promising signs—his OBP has jumped thirty points from last year, and increased plate discipline can often lead to increased power. A Gordon/Butler platoon at first could be pretty durned good, although I would be hesitant to do it so soon in Gordon’s career. Consider a potential lineup for 09 assuming we get Dunn or Burrell and Hu or Lillibridge:

CF DeJesus (L)
3B Aviles®
LF Dunn (L)/Burrell®
RF Guillen®
1B Gordon (L)
DH Butler®
2B Callaspo (S)
C Buck®
SS Hu/Lillibridge

I would like this lineup a lot more than our current one.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 4, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another option

if teams start overpaying for 1b free agents like Hinske, is to sign a 3b free agent, keep Aviles at short, but still move Gordon to first base.

One possible idea—Dallas McPherson has been hitting the stitching off the ball for the Marlins’ AAA team, but is blocked by Jorge Cantu and will become a free agent at the end of the season. Because McPherson missed all of 2007 after having back surgery, he will probably come relatively cheap and could be worth taking a flier on (perhaps a two-year deal with incentive clauses for playing time plus a third-year club option). His stats profile him as a relatively low OBP, high SLG type, but with Gordon and Buck both improving their OBP, we might be able to deal with someone who is a bit of an OBP sink and isn’t named Guillen.

Plus, McPherson is fairly young for an FA-only 28-and he does have that Braves connection—Atlanta drafted him in 1998, but he decided to play college ball instead.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 4, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If McPherson would come

Just move him to first, a low-risk move, and keep the better player with more potential (Gordon) at the more valuble positoin.

I also wouldn’t move Gordon off of 3B for Aviles. It decreases the value of both of their bats.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 4, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if mcpherson will play first

then you are probably right. McPherson’s defense is decent but not spectacular, so I don’t think we’d be missing out on much by moving his glove to first.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 4, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahy Not Move

Aviles to 1B?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Aug 4, 2008 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, I was unclear

I thought you were talking about moving GORDON to first for McPherson. My bad.

I meant that, in general, it would take a heck of a 3B hitter to convince me that Gordon should be 1B while he’s this young. Make the other guy move.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 4, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing

I get sick to my stomach whenever Teahen steps in the box. He’s got to go. He’s got PLENTY of opportunity to show what he has got, and outside of three months, it’s absolutely nothing. There’s patience, and then there’s the time they’re giving Teahen.

I’d rather see Maier in the lineup. Because at the very least, at least he won’t bat in the middle of the order and screw up any potential rally among the good hitters.

Teahen is not (or shouldn’t be anyways) in the future plans. Maier MIGHT have a role if he shows he can hit over the next two months. Either way, we need to find a replacement this winter whether it’s by trade or by free agent signing.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Aug 4, 2008 4:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't bench a player simply because we, as fans, are frustrated with him because we wanted more

Yes the Royals definitely need to find an upgrade for his position this winter. But benching him in favor of Maier only serves to decrease the likely runs scored of this team. I’m not in favor of that just because he’s someone different.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Teahen

would make a great 4 corners reserve on the next Royals playoff team, but he’s definitely not hurting anyone playing everyday right now. Yes, he has struggled, but there really are not any better options in the system.

by lordbyronk on Aug 4, 2008 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

NO NO

Just release every player that doesn’t live up to our enormous expectations, that is how good baseball teams are run!

by I need more Esteban on Aug 4, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I expected Zack

to be 14-0 with a 1.21 ERA now, so DFA his ass

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 4, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who said just release him.

You guys are overreacting to what I am saying. I explained it below hit the wrong reply area. I don’t advocate DFAin anyone except TPJ or Gload. Teahen might not be better than Maier he probably is but it is too soon to call. If Maier is equally average wouldn’t he be the better option? Lower salary and can play all 3 OF positions when DDJ needs a day off. Maybe KC keeps a bench of Maier, Teahen, German and B. Pena or Olivo. Teahen can play corner OF spots and 1b.

This is all pure speculation based on the slim possibilty of KC signing Dunn in the first place. Everyone has their panties in a bunch based off of HUGE SPECULATIVE outcomes.

Likely 09 starting lineup (not batting order)
C Buck
2b Callaspo/German
1b Butler/Gload/Shealy
SS Aviles
3b Gordon
CF DDJ
RF Guillen
LF FA/Teahen

I thought this phrase showed I was Hoping and not really think it was reality: (I’m gonna say cuz no one else is)

The one thing that surprises me that no one has brought up about my dream team was that I moved Bannister to the pen. I really thought that would bring up the ire of NY more than releasing TPJ/Teahen in favor of Maier/Sanchez.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, you are confusing me

Above, most of the time, you seem to be saying that the roster is you describing what you think Moore is most likely to do, not necessarily what would be best. Now you are describing it as your “dream team,” which would seem to imply that it is what you think would be best, given the available options. So which is it?

And as far as having Bannister in the bullpen. You chose Davies over Bannister for the rotation? Stats be damned, I guess. I’m going to go with performance (over a significant sample size for both players) over Davies good stuff, poor control and 5 inning outings.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is a combination

of both because I really think none of us know what he is gonna do. There are two different parts I’ll try to explain them to you piece by piece.

2009 Lineup (I’m gonna say cuz no one else is)
CF DDJ
SS Aviles
DH Butler
LF Dunn “Dream but somewhat realistic I guess”
RF Guillen
3b Gordon
C Buck
1b Kila Monster “Total COMPLETE DREAM”
2b Callaspo

Bench
Maier, Angel Sanchez, Gload, Gathright – “Basing the bench off of what Hillmans/FO patterns have been so far this year”

Pitchers
Greinke
Meche
Hochever
Davies “Dream doubt he’ll get his act together but would probably end up in the bullpen.”
Rosa “start the year in the 5 spot but hopefully midseason establish himself as a mid-rotation guy on the way to becoming a #2 type.

Bullpen
Mahay, Nunez, RamRam, Soria, Bannister, Tejeda, HoRam

I totally understand your point on Bannister I wish he could get over his own stats. He is a real enigma to this rotation to me. We all know he doen’t have overwhelming stuff but he continues to walk batters. I think Hoch/Davies/Bannister suffer from Royal nibbling syndrome in different ways.

Hoch seems to have cured his nibbles and could establish himself as a mid-rotation guy by the end of the year if he can get some defense behind him. Just looking at his last 4 outings he has increased his GB rate and lowered his BB’s. If he can continue this he will start getting some better defense and maybe even a little run support.

Banni- I just can’t explain this guy he should be better than he is. He needs to quit looking at the stat chart so much and quit making excuses. As a pitcher he should know that those numbers don’t explain his season. He just tends to get in trouble with the strikezone at times and with a pitcher with his stuff he can’t afford to do that. I just see him as no better than a #5 SP long term unless he can curb the walks.

Davies-Much in the same as Banni but with better stuff. A #5 is about what we can expect and the way he has pitched this year is about as good as he will probably ever be. He lacks the control to be a midrotation type guy.

I think the SP choices break down like this
Greinke 1/2 on the cusp of being a 1
Meche 2
Hochever 3
Davies 5
Bannister 5
Rosa 5/2 starts as a 5 but unknown and has the talent to be a 2

I’m indifferent to Davies and Bannister toss the coin and see what you get. While Banni can look brilliant like he did mid to late season last year and the start of this year he can just lose it for stretches. Davies on the other hand can look brilliant for 3-4 innings and just lose it. KC could do much much worse than having the problem of picking two talented starters for the 5 hole.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 5, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bannister

He needs to quit looking at the stat chart so much and quit making excuses.

His analysis of stats isn’t hurting him, and he isn’t making excuses. He knows that the stats (all of the stats, not just ERA) describe his performance, which has been a mixed bag. His use of statistical analysis and strategic thinking is what has gotten him his success despite mediocre stuff. It’s not like he should just forget everything and just start challenging hitter with is 89 mph fastball in the zone. He knows that it takes more than that to succeed in the majors. He has to throw the right pitch in the right place at the right time.

As a pitcher he should know that those numbers don’t explain his season.

They certainly don’t explain everything, but they do describe his season pretty well and help greatly with explaining it.

I’m indifferent to Davies and Bannister toss the coin and see what you get.

If one thinks that performance on the field and the stats which describe that performance are relevant to evaluating players, then Bannister has been considerably better than Davies over their professional careers and over their careers as Royals. Toss a coin because they are about equal? You’ve got to be kidding me.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 5, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bannister

I think it is too early to know what kind of pitcher he is. Is this a sophmore slump or is he gonna dance out of the strikezone and get popped when he gets in trouble. One halfway good rookie season does not a career make. As we know with some of the Royals ROY winners.

Davies might not be a better “pitcher” but I think he has the better stuff. From there it is up to McClure to try to pull a Dave Duncan on him and turn him into a reliable starter. I think the tools are there.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 6, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is too early to know what kind of pitcher he is.

I’d agree with that, in general.

. One halfway good rookie season does not a career make.

I would certainly agree with that. But if you are saying that Bannister’s rookie season was “halfway good,” I would disagree very strongly.

Davies might not be a better "pitcher" but I think he has the better stuff

Better stuff, but not even close to as good overall. Given what they’ve done in their careers, I think there is every reason to expect Bannister to be significantly better than Davies for the remainder of their careers.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 6, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Better stuff, but not even close to as good overall. Given what they’ve done in their careers, I think there is every reason to expect Bannister to be significantly better than Davies for the remainder of their careers.

Yes if Bannister can get back to the pitcher he was at the start of the year or during last year. He wouldn’t even have to be that guy all the time just find it more often. He considers himself a streaky pitcher he needs to find his streaks a little more often. I think they both have tools they can work with and it will be up to McClure to figure one of them out. Nice to hear that Bannister is changing his routine of going back to two side throwing sessions before his start. Didn’t result in great results tonight but maybe it will his next start.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 6, 2008 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes if Bannister can get back to the pitcher he was at the start of the year or during last year. He wouldn’t even have to be that guy all the time just find it more often.

No, Bannister was a clear #2-quality SP last year and in April of this year. He doesn’t have to be THAT good in order to be better than Davies who is clearly no better than a decent #5 SP and never has been. Hell Bannister is better than Davies right now (4.47 ERA for Bannister as compared to Davies 4.83, and the batted ball data doesn’t help Davies either).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 6, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

27 years old vs. 24 years old...

does that not matter at all?

Davies is at an age where alot of players are still in the minors and is improving, whereas banny is at an age where alot of people start their peak and he’s getting significantly worse.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Aug 6, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish we were seeing meaningful improvement from Davies which would convince me that he'll ever be better than a #5 SP

Unfortunately, we are not.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 6, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish we were seeing meaningful starts from Banni

his last 3 months have been godawful no matter what Sabermetric stats you toss out. 63 ER in his last 96.2 innings

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 6, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thankfully you have an overall track record for Bannister which is much, much, much better than Davies track record

his last 3 months have been godawful no matter what Sabermetric stats you toss out. 63 ER in his last 96.2 innings

Thankfully we can and should look at things in addition to his ERA. For instance his FIP is 4.45, which is basically the FIP of a #3 SP. Clearly he was better than that earlier in the season and he’s been worse than that recently. Seasons are made of ups and downs.

But regardless of one’s opinion of Bannister, the statistical record shows that he is much, much better than Davies and Davies hasn’t shown the improvement which one would want to see from a 24-year-old to give one real hope that he’s going to improve significantly.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 7, 2008 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Teahen

Sigh..what a frustrating player. He looked completely lost at the plate the last series. Personally I think he needs a change of scenery. Maybe he could allow himself to just be the player that he his.

He CAN play a lot of different positions. I would not say he plays any position better than average. He does have a strong, accurate arm in the outfield, but still seems to make bad reads and take bad routes. I cringe everytime a ball gets hit to him even though most of the time he does seem to somehow catch the ball. He did nicely play that ball in the 7th yesterday into a triple. You owe Zack a beer for that one buddy.

At the plate he’s still terribly inconsistent. Ks WAY too much for the type of player he is. He hits WAY too many weak groundballs to second. Then he’ll all of a sudden show a flash and hit 3 HRs in three games like he did in Chicago earlier in the year. When he went into his zone in ‘06 he was attacking the ball and squaring them up. I don’t know if the pitchers have adjusted and he hasn’t or what the deal is, but I don’t see him doing that. There are just way too many at-bats that he doesn’t seem to have a chance.

To be honest I’m not sure what we do with him if we sign an OF in the offseason. NYRoyal is right that he is a better player than Maier, but I also think Maier is a 4th OF where Teahen should get a chance to start somewhere and not be a super-sub. Teahen has shown the flashes of being a plus player (minor star?). I see Maier as being a Teahen Lite or DDJ Lite. Maier just might be more consistenly average and not show the flashes of being pretty good. That’s what makes Maier a decent 4th OF.

Final point..I’m not advocating Maier over Teahen. Teahen has the better skill set and is the better player. If he is still on the team next year, he should have the roster spot over Maier. I think Teahen just needs a change. He might be a nice #2 or #8 hitter somewhere and play OF or 3rdbase. I don’t think he will be able to do that here cause he thinks he needs to be this power hitter (and we kind of need him to be).

by Stook on Aug 4, 2008 7:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like Maier more than Gator

I think he has a more balanced skill set. I also think we need to see what we have in him to see if he warrants protection on the 40 man roster. Teahen is beyond frustrating. I was thinking the same thing as your first three paragraphs yesterday as well. Teahen has had multiple chances, and if he can’t start here odds are he won’t start anywhere, so super-sub is really his only option if he doesn’t figure it out. He would be really great in that type of role. He reminds me of Xavier Nady on NYY. He put up middling numbers and played multiple positions for years and eventually put it together. I hope Teahen might be able to do that, but right now we have to play him due to the lack of other options (Costa, anyone?) and hope for the best. He really is more of a two or six/seven hitter in my opinion.

by lordbyronk on Aug 4, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why are we all so sold on Mark Teahen

Before I make this statement I would like to say that I am as big a culprit as anyone else. I even went so far as to say he might still develop into a 20-25 HR guy. It’s hard not to like him or root for him. He plays hard and looks like the dude could get huge. BUT

Why are we so sure he is our best option. Except for three 50 some game stretches in his career he has been a Totally Average
A- 13 G’s .978 OPS
AA 53 G’s .963 OPS
80 G’s ‘06 AAA/ML 1.000 OPS
Other than those stints he has been below a .800 OPS at every level and every year of his career. Which is it? I think he is the below .800 OPS guy. He has played 702 games out of his career 848 games as that guy why should we believe he can change.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

What?

“Why are we so sure he is our best option”

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say he is our best option, there are just some that don’t want to outright release the guy or let minor leaguers play in front of him because he is still a usefull player. He is not a superstar, but on a good team he would be the kind of role player that helps teams contend and get to the playoffs.

by I need more Esteban on Aug 4, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is a useful player

Obviously I wouldn’t just let him go. Trade him and maximize what value you could get from him. Hopefully other Gm’s value him as much as our fans do. I am not saying Maier is better than him but why not let him prove he is not before KC goes back to Teahen. Maier’s numbers in the minors are actually better or equal to that of Teahens. He has more range in the outfield and might actually provide +speed on the basepaths. I think KC is to the point of knowing what they have in a few players in the outfield Teahen, Gathright, Costa. I am saying that KC should give Maier the same shot that they gave Aviles. Will he produce? Very likely he won’t but this team is 10.5 out of first place and maybe not as bad in ‘09 as we previously had thought. If Maier could play the last 50 games at a similar clip as Teahen then wouldn’t it be in the best interest of the team to trade the more established backup player with the higher salary to bring back some sort of prospect.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maier’s numbers in the minors are actually better or equal to that of Teahens.

Why do you say these things without looking at the stats?
Career AA OPS
Teahen .963
Maier .784

Career AAA OPS
Teahen 852
Maier .782

Again, there’s no reason to think that Maier will hit anywhere near as well as Teahen. The scouts and the stats agree on this one.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am looking at the stats

Teahens career stats are all weighted like I explained before by a 80 game stretch in ‘06. Over the majority of his 800 some games he has been below a .800 OPS guy. Now I think you could heavily consider throwing the ‘06 season out because after a bad start he changed his approach. He has since returned to the left field slap hitter.

Comparing Maier and Teahen- AA is nearly irrelevant because Teahen only played 53 games that is a small sample size. Also if you compare Teahen’s 04-05 AAA seasons you’ll see that he is slightly less of a player than Maier is.

I just don’t think one can include that ‘06 season in Teahen’s numbers. At no other time has he put that long of a stretch of power together. He has said himself he took a different approach when being sent to Omaha.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 5, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is just no way

that Maier is going to hit as well as Teahen. He’s terrible.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 10, 2008 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All this talk about Callespo...

Where is he? Is he in some drug rehab or what? I don’t think he even makes the team next year. Long term he isn’t even close to our answer at 2nd base. I think we should show him the door and be done with it.

by grudz96 on Aug 4, 2008 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Callaspo

has potential and he’s on the DL. I think he could be a solid ballplayer. He looked like a pretty solid player at the begining of the year, but I think German has really earned playing time with the way he has played lately and should be the starter next year.

by lordbyronk on Aug 4, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they don't even give him a shot

after we gave up Buckner, I’d be ultra dissapointed.

I really don't know what to say... Did the post above this signature make sense? Probably not.

by RoyalsFanInMarinerTown on Aug 4, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A 2009 lineup, per your request, kscoliny

This is something like what I’d do and is subject to change

SP Greinke
SP Meche
SP Soria
SP Hochevar
SP Bannister

RP Rosa
RP Davies
RP Gobble (if I’m the GM and Hillman assures me he’ll use him as a LOOGY. If not, then non-tender him.)
RP Musser/Tejeda/H.Ramirez
RP Nunez
RP Mahay
CL R.Ramirez

C Buck
1B Hinkse
2B Callaspo/German (sharing time, in something resembling a platoon)
3B Gordon
SS Aviles
LF Dunn
CF DeJesus
RF Guillen
DH Butler

C B.Pena
U Teahen
U Callaspo/German (the one who isn’t starting that day)
U Shealy (Backs up Hinske and starts against a significant number of LHP starters)

There’s significant flexibility here for other FA’s (like Burrell and others) and/or trades. I didn’t want to get into a bunch of hypothetical trades, but the Royals could and should trade some pitching for hitting. They could theoretically trade a good pitching prospect for the Phillies SS prospect Donald. Then they could possibly move Aviles to 2B and then trade Callaspo or German. Mahay, Teahen and others are also tradable. So there are a many more good possibilities in addition to the roster I outline above.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

semi=OT question

I’m confused again. Obviously, I like the roster (for some strange reason [winky-face]). But, as is obvious, I don’t follow the ROyals minor-league pitchers consistently.

Isn’t Rosa supposed to be a potential middle of the rotation guy? I really don’t know much about him. I guess I was surprised to see him listed as as reliever here, that’s all.

That team does look like it can make some noise, with Soria in rotation moving guys “down” a notch, and if Gordon and Butler can even be “position average” next year…. I’m not saying mark down 90 wins, but I can see 85.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 4, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OT response

Isn’t Rosa supposed to be a potential middle of the rotation guy? I really don’t know much about him. I guess I was surprised to see him listed as as reliever here, that’s all.

He does project as a middle of the rotation guy (with potential to be better than that), but I would put the organizational SP depth chart for 2009 (if it were to include Soria) as follows:

Greinke
Meche
Soria
Hochevar
Bannister
Rosa
Davies (for the record, I expect more than a few prospects to develop into something better than Davies, but in 2009, Davies is more ready to contribute in the majors than say someone like Cortes or Wood).

So, if you move Soria to the rotation, Rosa goes to the bullpen as a long reliever by default. But that kind of starting pitching depth is essential. You have to expect someone to go down with injury or to flat out fail every season so the 6th SP is going to get a lot of starts. I think that would be a fine way to develop Rosa: long relief with some starts. I think he’d be ready to be a full-time starter, but this wouldn’t hamper his development much, if any, and it would keep his innings down which is good given his intermittent injury history. But if Soria doesn’t go to the rotation, Rosa is my #5 SP.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahhhhhhhhhhh

the old Soria starter. If that is a possibility they need to start stretching him out soon I wouldn’t wait until winter ball. Of the possible pitchers I would probably rather see Nunez as the closer. RamRam lately seems to be throwing less and less fastballs and I’m afraid his control and overall ability will lessen as he becomes reliant on just the hard change. Hinske is a possibility but I would be pleased/surprised if Gload wasn’t on next years roster and that would more than likely eliminate him.

How many wins would you see out of that team in your opinion?

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the old Soria starter. If that is a possibility they need to start stretching him out soon I wouldn’t wait until winter ball.

I don’t have any idea if they are going to do it or, if they are, when they would do it. But it would only be wise/safe to increase his IP this season by 30. That would mean giving him only a handful of starts in September.

Of the possible pitchers I would probably rather see Nunez as the closer. RamRam lately seems to be throwing less and less fastballs and I’m afraid his control and overall ability will lessen as he becomes reliant on just the hard change.

I wouldn’t mind Nunez as the closer, but I think Ramirez has been better in a number of key stats including K/9 and HR/9. And Nunez’s BB/9 is only a little better. I think Ramirez would dominate and convert at least 90% of his save opps.

How many wins would you see out of that team in your opinion?

That’s really hard to say. In order to come up with a number I could defend, I’d have to crunch a lot of numbers to at least estimate runs scored and runs allowed. Off the top of my head, I’d say low-to-mid 80’s. The Dunn and Hinske upgrades and Soria in the rotation would help a lot.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RamRam could develop into a good closer

if he can get back to throwing more fastballs. It really seems like he is in love with that hard change up. It is a good pitch but early in the year it was a great pitch because he was throwing more fastballs. Maybe it is what the catcher is calling but I would mix more.

Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.
-- Demetri Martin

by kcscoliny on Aug 4, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ignore the following unless you do decide to crunch the numbers

If you do crunch the numbers, remember to deduct 15-25 runs from the runs allowed side to account for Dunn’s defense in LF (last year, PMR had him 14 runs, Dewan +/ had him -27, RZR converted to runs had him at roughly -20). The short-term Dunn pickup could be a sound idea, but he would punt a fair amount of his offensive value if he had to play LF.

by Gopherballs on Aug 4, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder what the net would be

Teahen at + something defensively and a roughly .750 OPS vs. Dunn at let’s say -20 runs defensively and a roughly .900 OPS. And do you really think Dunn’s defense give 20 more runs to the opposition last year?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last year

Dunn 2007
940 OPS
101 Runs Created per THT (“We use the most complicated version [of Runs Created], which includes the impact of hitting well with runners in scoring position, and is adjusted for ballpark impact.”).
117 Runs Created per Fangraphs (which apparently uses the original Bill James formula without the clutch or park adjustments)

Teahen 2007
763 OPS
81 Runs Created (THT adjusted version)
75 Runs Created (Fangraphs unadjusted version)

On offense, that would be a 42 run difference using Fangraphs, but only 20 runs using THT and its clutch and park adjustments.

There is general agreement across the various advanced defensive metrics when it comes to Dunn (UZR had Dunn at -19 for 2006, the last year with full data available), and -20 runs would translate as Dunn missing about 25-30 plays that an average leftfielder would make over the course of a full season (since most of those would go for extra bases). So, yes, -20 sounds about right. Dunn at 1B or DH would largely avoid that problem.

by Gopherballs on Aug 4, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Hinske in LF? He's played the corner OF off and on for 3-4 years now...

THe plan MUST work

How about Burrell in Left, while we’re at it?

Also, Gopherballs, I could use as refill on this Pepsi while you’re up.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 4, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How 'bout a Fresca?

Burrell is one of the two or three guys who make Dunn look good in LF (Manny and arguably Ibanez are the others).

Burrell 2007
UZR: minus 34
RZR: minus 25
PMR: minus 24
+/-: minus 26

Burrell’s Runs Created were 104 (Fangraphs) and 96 (THT). Like Dunn, Burrell should be a 1B or DH.

Hinske has not played enough in the OF to get rated by the most of the advanced metrics, but eyeballing his RZR numbers, he looks like a little better but still a lot like Dunn—he catches what is hit to him, but not much range.

by Gopherballs on Aug 5, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any FA's look good to you, G?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 5, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Major league free agents for OF are slim pickings

Juan Rivera is interesting as buy-low guy who should be available on a one-year contract. Dunn or Burrell are interesting on short-term contracts, but not as outfielders, and I have doubts either will be available for three years or less. I am not sure he can be on the same team as Jose Guillen, but Milton Bradley will be undervalued due to his reputation and injury history. But building through free agency is generally a bad idea.

As mentioned a couple weeks ago in the Fourth Outfielder post, the better bet is to find somebody through trades, non-tenders, minor league free agents, etc. Guys to consider would be guys who have had down years or injuries, former top prospects who did not develop as quickly as expected (Nelson Cruz-types), prospects who are blocked or out of options (the A’s have a bunch of near major league ready OFs), guys who scouts like but stat guys do not (and the converse, guys who stat guys like but scouts do not), or guys who might project as merely average or fourth outfielder-types but are young enough to still have better than expected peaks (Matt Murton- and Brandon Moss-types). We really will not which specific players who fit these categories are available until the offseason.

by Gopherballs on Aug 5, 2008 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you wouldn't spend much money?

You might pick up a cheaper guy like Rivera or Bradley and then have Glass just sit on the rest of his money? And by “his money,” I don’t mean his personal fortune. I’m talking about the massive revenues the Royals are raking in from the new TV deal, the gate and the ever increasing money they are getting from MLB (from revenue sharing and the luxury tax). The Royals are already spending more money on the draft and Latin American signings than ever before. Even if they were to increase that some and sign some young players to long-term deals, that would still leave many millions. Should we fail to use that money on available free agents just because it is more efficient? I’d prefer an inefficient 85 wins to a very efficient 75 wins.

And the problem with trades is that we’re giving up as much talent as we’re getting. I’m all for doing some trades, but are any of these trades going to get the Royals an impact bat? Only if we give up an impact player like Greinke, Soria, Meche, etc.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 5, 2008 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, that is a pretty big jump

from “the major league free agent OF pickings are slim so I would look elsewhere” to “so you wouldn’t spend much money?”

Sure, let’s spend money, but let’s spend it wisely. Just because you can pay more for Barry Zito or Carlos Silva than anyone else does not make them any better of a pitcher. It just reduces your resources to spend elsewhere now and in the future when the team should be contending.

As previously discussed, I would target a relatively cheap corner outfielder to push Teahen into a reserve role (just about every other organization has one or two guys who would be worth a look) and then pursue a big bat at corner OF/1B/DH using money (like Dunn or Burrell on a short-term contract) or prospects (for a longer-term fix) or a combination of both. The thing to avoid is tying up too much of the salary budgets for 2010 and thereafter with guys who will not be producing at the level at which they are paid.

With trades, you are not always giving up as much talent as the other team, but you just have to find a fit and part with roughly equal value. The impact bat does not have to be an established all-star or a five-star prospect who is at the crest of the hype machine—the White Sox got one last year for a good but not great prospect because Arizona devalued his skills and had a surplus at that position.

Even with the “new” money from the new TV deals, satellite radio, revenue sharing, and MLBAM, the Royals gross revenue last year was only $138 million, roughly the Mets payroll this year. The Royals are still going to have a salary budget in 2009 and beyond.

by Gopherballs on Aug 5, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you know what the non-Salary Budget for the Royals is

for FO/coaching salaries, scouting, travel, grounds, etc. Basically everything it costs to run the club – player salaries (roughly)?

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Aug 5, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Using the Forbes numbers

For 2007, the Royals’ gross revenue was $131 million (the $138 million quoted above is a typo), while team operating income was $7.4 million (EBITDA—earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization). According to Cot’s, the Royals opening day 2007 payroll for the 25-man roster was $67 million. That would leave about $56.6 million for everything other than payroll for the 25-man roster, plus a $7.4 million “profit.”

by Gopherballs on Aug 5, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Rivera

irrespective of other moves, actually. At worst, a cheap fourth outfielder/platoon guy for Teahen. Maybe he could be a league-average starter. If I remember, like Teahen, he can play CF in a pinch.

Nelson Cruz would be another waiver guy to take a shot on. I know there are a lot of questions about him, but he’s raking in OKC this year and has good tools. Worth taking a shot if he’s free or close to it.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 5, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Rivera

He really hasn’t got much of an opportunity on the Angels. When he has he’s been hurt, so he might be one of the better value signings of this FA market. He’s looked like a really solid player, when he’s gotten the PT (career line .285/.335/.465). I like him and Dallas McPherson on the lower end.

by lordbyronk on Aug 5, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely not.

If there’s one rule major league teams really must follow when it comes to signing ML free agents, it’s this: Don’t ever negotiate with a fourth outfielder or utility infielder. You can fill those slots with guys who command the league minimum or close to it; there’s no need to pay a guy who thinks he can start somewhere.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Aug 5, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That makes sense

I guess I think Rivera, for example, could start and be around league average for not much money. All the “fourth outfielder” thing meant was that it’s unlikely he’d collapse into Gload-like uselessness.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 5, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much do you think CC Sabathia will get in free agency?

Instead of a Dunn would you be willing to go after a true “ace”. I’ve heard due to his large frame 5 years would be the max any team would go. Would 5/90-100 be too much.

This would possibly give us the flexibility to trade a Greinke and fill two offensive holes this offseason or have one helluva pitching staff with Greinke as a 2 and Meche as a 3. You would have the luxury of leaving Soria as closer also (if so inclined).

by djk royal on Aug 4, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

197 billion dollars

Instead of a Dunn would you be willing to go after a true "ace". I’ve heard due to his large frame 5 years would be the max any team would go. Would 5/90-100 be too much.

I wouldn’t go in that direction. It’s hard to say how much CC will get. Santana is not a perfect comp, but he’s the best one we have as he’s the only recent true ace contract signing. He got 6/137.5 which averages out to just under $23M per year. I don’t think C.C. is as good as Santana, but with another year of salary inflation with multiple bidders he could easily get $22M per year for 5 years. For the Royals, I wouldn’t go for 5/100, let alone 5/110 or more. If Glass is willing to take the payroll as high as $80M, then the Royals have about $20M to spend this offseason (and that is after contract raises and arbitration awards). I’d rather use that money to fill two holes than one. And I just don’t like the idea of going essentially trying to win completely with pitching. I mean, it could work, but only if each of your top 3 pitchers stays healthy all season. If any one of them goes down, your season is basically over.

But your idea is intriguing. While I wouldn’t do it if I were GM, it could work. The Greinke trade scenario is particularly interesting. I don’t relish the thought of trading Greinke, but I’d trade anyone to improve the team. And signing a FA ace would allow us to trade Greinke and acquire a true stud position player. So that’s doable, but in the final analysis, I’d probably go another way.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The cost of Sabathia

would be partially defrayed over the next two seasons if the Greinke trade scenario came to fruition as Zack should see significant raises his last two years of arbitration. This of course assumes the position players we trade him for were making league minimum (high probability).

That’s a lot of money but it is the only way I could think of to add multiple YOUNG impact bats and not hurt the pitching staff.

by djk royal on Aug 4, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good point on the money

One question I have is would the Royals really get multiple young impact bats for Greinke? I mean I’m sure they could get one young impact major leaguer or MLB-ready uber-prospect, but in addition to that wouldn’t we be talking about prospects who might or might not be impact players in the majors? I don’t know if Greinke could be traded for two guys who are ready to start in 2009 and who should both be expected to be impact bats.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I imagine Greinke should at least fetch us

an MLB-ready impact prospect (at least a B+ on the Sickels scale) plus a throw-in (maybe C+ on the Sickels scale).

I would be pretty reluctant to trade him away right now, though. He’ll only be 25 on opening day 2009 and is under team control for two more years. If we couldn’t sign him to an extension next year, then I would seriously consider the possibility of trading him.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 4, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

an MLB-ready impact prospect (at least a B+ on the Sickels scale) plus a throw-in (maybe C+ on the Sickels scale).

That wouldn’t be a big haul, particularly when you consider that Sickels rated Ryan Shealy as a B+ prospect going into the season in which we traded for him.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hence the "at least" modifier

I expect that to be the absolute minimum.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 5, 2008 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think good comparable trades...

would be the Erik Bedard trade which netted 5 prospects for the Orioles and the Dan Haren trade which netted 6 prospects for the A’s. These are similar pitchers who had multiple years remaining before free agency. Pretty decent haul on both of them.

by djk royal on Aug 5, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with those comps

Is that both of those pitchers had multiple ace seasons under their belt before they were traded. Greinke has had one. I am confident that he’s the real deal, but his trade value would be less than Haren or Bedard because of his more inconsistent major league track record.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 5, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what would the German/Callaspo platoon be based off of?

Callaspo is the switch hitter, but German’s career splits against RHP and LHP are almost identical (.280/.364/.379 versus .281/.362/.400). I don’t think German should be playing every day either, but I am curious as to what the basis would be for determining which guy gets the start when.

Otherwise, I agree with most of your projected roster.

by DarthYoshi on Aug 4, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really know

The idea of Callaspo and German sharing time was a very off the top of my head idea. They could share time based on who is pitching for the Royals (since Callaspo is better defensively, he could start more when Hochevar and Meche are starting), who is hot, who is healthy, etc.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by NYRoyal on Aug 4, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I would say

Begin the season with them in a groundball pitcher/flyball pitcher “platoon.” If one of them is bombing/or smacking the ball around consistently for two months, start shifting the weight of the playing time to the better guy.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Aug 4, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My concern with these potential FA's...

Have we officially given up on Butler being a legitimate 1B? It seems like he’s handled the duty pretty well. I have a hard time slapping the lifetime DH tag on someone as young as Butler. I realize it may come to that if Punch moves up possibly next year, but just asking. Do we really believe he is nothing more than a lifetime DH or is this just stating the reality of how Hillman has used him?

by KCScuba on Aug 6, 2008 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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