Potential Royals Trade Target Not Quite as Sucky as Tony Pena, Jr.

Peter Bendix discusses the past and future of Jeff "Frenchy" Francoeur in light of his horrible 2008 season. It's interesting in light of Franoeur coming up in discussions of possible Royals trade targets (although this might just be the fans). He concludes that Frenchy might still have a shot at being a decent hitter, despite his lack of plate discipline.

But what really caught my eye was this: "If not for the horrendously awful Tony Pena Jr., Francoeur would have the lowest VORP in all of baseball." To be fair, the editor does note that "all numbers are as of Friday. And this weekend Corey Patterson has a surge of suckitude to vault into second-to-worst in VORP, making Jeff Francoeur the third least productive player in baseball this year." YAY.

So many easy jokes, so little time...

over 3 years ago Matt Klaassen 57 comments 0 recs |

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Walks are for suckers

by Top Ramen on Sep 22, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply actions

BB are a thing of the past. Just like SBs

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply actions

I see Francoeur's likely upside as an .800 OPS

And his likely OPS is lower than that. He’s a good 4th OFer, not a starter.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 22, 2008 1:48 PM EDT reply actions

Tell me NYR

Who on the FA list is a 4th OF type

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Why do you ask?

You want me to list all of the FA’s who are 4th OFer quality?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 22, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah. I want to get an idea of your mindset when you look at 4th OFers.

I’m just curious. I will in no way use this against you. (evil laugh) I just wanted to see what I thought.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions

it's a tough label, because some "4th OFs" are starting for teams currently

and some “3rd OF” types merely have platoon roles or part time roles right now — it all depends on the other talent on a given team.

but considering Frenchy has barely been above replacement-level (and is much worse this year) calling him a 4th OF is being kind.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 22, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

What would you consider Teahen?

It takes 46 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip 'em the bird.

by kcscoliny on Sep 22, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions

with his 2008 stats, he's not a starter

he certainly has the talent, based on 2006 still meaning just a bit, to rebound be good enough to start in the future. to quantify the probability of that requires more than my intuition.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 22, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Well said

Some possibility to rebound enough to be a starter, but likely a good 4th OFer, or even better a 4-corner utility guy.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 22, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

and given where the Royals are at, he should start again next year

it’s worth seeing if he’ll ever work out and it’s not worth spending money or trading for someone to play on a team that’s not ready to compete

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 22, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions

He will work out

after he leaves the ROyals and turns into Jermaine Dye at around 29-30

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 22, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

This team needs a corner OF upgrade desperately

If they get someone with a 3-year contract or more (or a young player under team control for 3 or more years), then they should definitely do it. That could/should take them into contending years. And this team needs continual improvement. Hell, the Royals have a hard time getting FA’s to sign even when they make the biggest, best offer.

And wasting more time to see if Teahen can prove himself is pointless. We don’t know exactly what he is, but we know he’s not even a league average corner OFer.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 22, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Functional definition of a 4th OFer

An OFer who can be counted on hit well below league average for an OFer. In short, if an is likely to have an OPS lower than .800, he’s a 4th OFer (unless we’re talking about a CFer).

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 22, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I can't wait for us to acquire Frenchy!!!

His .300 OBA will be hack-tastic!!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 22, 2008 1:48 PM EDT reply actions

Jose Guillen was a good warmup

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 22, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Moore Spikes Francoeur Rumor (In my dream last night)

KANSAS CITY – Royals’ general manager Dayton Moore held a press conference today to put to rest rumors that the Royals are considering, or even would consider in an alternate universe, trading anyone—even Tony Pena Jr.—to the Braves for Jeff Francoeur. "When I was in the Braves organization Jeff was having problems laying off of pitches in the dirt, so we tried something unorthodox. We placed a paper bag over his head while he was in the batter’s box. It didn’t completely solve the problem, but he actually did get on base a little more."
On whether or not he thought Francoeur was capable of replicating the 29 home runs he hit his rookie rear with the Braves, Moore compared Francoeur to Mark McGwire. "When McWire turned 37 he abruptly fell off, performance-wise. I don’t think I’d have traded for McWire when he was 38 years old. Now that Frenchy is, like 24 years old, the same thing seems to have happened to him."

Then the dream went sour

"We’re going to turn our attention instead to a free agent power-hitter, like David Eckstein."
Manager Trey Hillman added, "We could probably put Ecky in right and move Teahen back to the infield where he likes the dirt under his feet. With Ecky, Teahen, Gload hitting in the middle of the order, we won’t be needing Frenchy."

I follow the Tao of Steve (Balboni)

by jackie ballgame on Sep 22, 2008 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

was Old Ben Kenobe (sp?) talking in the background to Frenchy?

saying things like “Feel the force Jeff – don’t use your eyes – feel if the ball is bouncing in the freaking dirt five feet in front of the base – this isn’t freaking cricket, Jeff! – don’t swing unless you have to…. – where is Jedi Master Barnett???”

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Sep 22, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

If he came really cheap (which he won't)

I could see him being a platoon partner for Mark Teahen. He OPSes over .800 against lefties… That platoon might OPS around .800 altogether. Not amazing, but if it was cheap it would be OK and with decent CO defense. Frenchy could also be a late-inning sub for Guillen (or, preferably, Dunn/Burrell, if the Royals are willing to let Guillen and his contract for in lieu of someone equally bad on defense, but who can actually, you know, hit).

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 22, 2008 2:05 PM EDT reply actions

I like the idea

of a platoon

Alex Gordon in '08

by RoyalJHWKR on Sep 22, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

me too.

and platoon Kila and Shealy until one of them shows they need more playing time.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

The BRAVEST WAY to Build a Baseball Team

by Freneau on Sep 22, 2008 2:09 PM EDT reply actions

69-87!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 22, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

and our boy is the supposed man behind the braves

2008: 69-87
2007: 84-78
2006: 79-83

In the National League

by Freneau on Sep 22, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Wait a minute...

I never really paid attention to that book, but I knew it existed and what it was about.

However, I had no idea that the subtitle was really “The Bravest Way…”

Wow, that’s just… tremendous, I suppose.

They should have made the “logo” doing the tomahawk chop, though.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Also,

is Dayton really the star of the book?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

it is an awful book...

the star is really a straw man of Beane/stat-friendly people as the anti-hero

by Freneau on Sep 22, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

yea, nothing is braver than doing something the standard way

by Freneau on Sep 22, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

what's that book called the Scherholz wrote?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

LOL, rec'd

We need a Joe Morgan for Scouts Honor

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 22, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

What's up with the mudslinging toward this book?

Out of curiosity, and I’m serious.

I think everyone is downplaying the epic, 14-year dynasty the Braves created, making the postseason every year from 91-04 (sans 94). How did they build those championship-caliber ballclubs? You know, the ones in 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, and 04?

The Nation at large.

by Royals Nation on Sep 22, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Apparently the book isn't very good

I don’t think anyone’s disputing that the Braves were quite good for a long time.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Sep 22, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Not good...

…As in not well-written, but inaccurate as to how to build a championship-caliber club?

Look, I’ve never read the book. And I’m a firm believer in Moneyball status and have given Moore criticism where needed, I believe, but I think people are underestimating the Braves. Recently, yes, they have been sub-par, but that’s more than countered with an unbelievable run of contention. John Schuerholz – and Dayton Moore, to a lesser degree – should be credited heavily for their successes there in north Georgia.

The Nation at large.

by Royals Nation on Sep 23, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes, Moneyball isn't the only way to build a winner

Using stats, sabermetrics, and new, critical modes of analysis is important, but having good scouts and intelligent front office people is also extremely important. You can go a long way on good scouting and developing players in a sound, intelligent mannter. That’s what the Braves have done. Moore is doing a good job of building the latter. I wish he would add more of the former as well.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 23, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Not good

in that it was written partially as a smear on Moneyball, with a clear bias, which shows. The portion of the book which actually focuses on the scouting stuff? That’s fine.

In a way, it’s similar to how I’m feeling about the election. All the negative campaigning from both sides turns me off; those rare occasions when either side actually talks about what they want to do, on the other hand, interest me.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Sep 23, 2008 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions

Do you know who you are going to vote for yet?

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 23, 2008 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions

LYNDON LAROUCHE!!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 23, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Where's that "None of the Above" box?

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Sep 23, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

For a decent review of the book and discussion vis-a-vis its portrayal of "Moneyball"

see this review.

Just look past the reviewer’s attempt to invoke “Hegel’s Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis” method. As most of you probably know, this formulation is never invoked by Hegel, although he does mock a simplistic “tripartite scheme” in doing philosophy. The attribution of said “method” to Hegel is due to a way of summarizing after his philosophy after his death which was probably passed down to the generations by way of Marx’s use of said version of Hegel in The Poverty of Philosophy.

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 25, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Here another review

A bit more in-depth and critical

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 25, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

By the way, I'll criticize Moore for this if and when he trades something of value for him

Until then, it is just a rumor. I prefer to criticize Moore for the things he actually does.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 22, 2008 2:47 PM EDT reply actions

indeed

by Freneau on Sep 22, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep

You ARE silly that way.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Sep 22, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

nice buy low candidate

I see no reason why he can’t be a 290/.340/.480+ hitter in the future. Which…would be nice. Plays a good RF I think too which is a plus. Sure…he had a bad year but he was also very unlucky on balls in play. His walk rate has gotten better every year as well.

I hope we don’t give up toooooooooo much for him….but I still think he’s going to be a pretty good hitter.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Sep 22, 2008 2:50 PM EDT reply actions

I see no reason why he can’t be a 290/.340/.480+ hitter in the future

I find that extremely unlikely. And that’s the problem. A .780 OPS is much more likely. In his 2007 season, he had a .782 OPS and was very lucky on batted balls. I think he can be a good 4th OFer but there’s no reason to expect anything more than that. He’s a lot like Teahen: one good season and that’s about it.

This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

by Scott McKinney on Sep 22, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I disagree :-)

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Sep 22, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Let's get him and find out.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

OK, We Can

Do that, right?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Sep 24, 2008 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions

he COULD be that. but probably not. i mean, he's never been that good and he's tried in many seasons

forecasting != wishcasting

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 22, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

We'll give up TPJ. And Kip Wells. Straight. 2 for 1 swap.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 3:32 PM EDT reply actions

if their nice we might even be able to throw in Fulchino or Lumsden

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Sep 22, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Not Mudkip!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Sep 22, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

What if I told you he was... a COMMIE

small type: just for the record, I hope everyone realizes this post was for discussion/fun, that was I not, in fact, criticizing DMGM…

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Sep 22, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Fulchino needs to go. Lumsden still could end up being a reliever so let's keep him in Omaha this next year.

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 22, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions

Jeff Francoeur

Is worse than Mark Teahen. And that’s saying something.

Seriously folks, our team is so mind-numbingly terrible in terms of getting on base, the absolute last thing we need is the outfield version of Angel Berroa. If Dayton does this I’ll lose a ton of respect for him, which I currently have a lot of. If Francoeur was on waivers and we picked him up I’d be pissed.

I follow the Tao of Steve (Balboni)

by jackie ballgame on Sep 22, 2008 6:11 PM EDT reply actions