Royals Review Mailbag
Self-indulgence never tasted so good.
I tried to answer as many of your questions as possible, as well as a few I'd wished that you'd asked. I threw in a Kaegel question as well.
Which team reminds you the most of the Royals? - Leobloom
Uniform-wise, the Dodgers. Historically, some combination of the Blue Jays, Astros and Braves. In terms of this year’s team, off the top of my head I’d say the Giants (some interesting young talent, random old guys, sometimes incoherent front office) and maybe Texas (a team most outsiders can’t really figure out).
How do you feel about the Bloomquist signing, I think we need to get into this subject more. – NYRoyal
Hopefully, in six months I look like a giant jerk for ever caring about it.
If you could change one thing about the Royals, non-baseball wise and baseball wise, what would you do? –A Loving Reader
Baseball-wise, I would demand true experimentation with the pitching staff: tandem starting, non-traditional use of the closer, periods of going to a four-man, etc. Non-baseball wise, find a way to have the Royals play a regular season series in either Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arkansas or Iowa. Maybe it's merely a personal obsession, but I wish the Royals tried harder to build or rebuild their regional reach. How about a Battle for the Heartland series against the Twins in… South Dakota? If the Red Sox or Yankees can be forced to play a regular season series in Japan, the Royals could play a series in Little Rock or something.
Can I get your autograph? doublestix
Sure, send me your mailing address. The odd thing is, my signature is really really horrible. You cannot tell what it is, not in any way. I sorta make a loopy "W" that really looks like a "U" and then kinda sorta do a "M" and then spell the rest of "McDonald" with a slightly wavy line. It’s horrible. Remember when you were about 14 and everyone was learning to do their signature and trying to come up with cool, sports-autographed ones? I was badly influenced by a friend with a bad signature in a similar style and its stuck. I’m convinced I need to come up with a new one, but somewhat feel like that is against the rules or will come back to haunt me when one day I’m falsely accused of a crime.
Who would you rather part with, Joakim Soria or Zack Greinke? - focs
Greinke is much more valuable, but Soria is under team control through 2014 potentially. Gotta go with Soria for that reason.
I was curious what color shoes the team would wear next season. – RoyalsRetro
Is anyone else with me in thinking the Royals don’t do enough with the yellow/gold aspect of their color scheme? I think the blue/white combination is fabulous, but I also really like blue & gold. Maybe its because of where I went to college. I’d love to see the players wearing yellow shoes or having the caps have just a touch of gold in the KC logo or something.
What are the minor league rosters looking like… with estimated time to majors? –TucsonRoyal
You ever have one of those dreams about taking a test in which you know none of the answers? The real question is, who would win a seven game series, NW Ark or Omaha/Sarpy? The weird thing about what happened last season was that the two biggest minor league stories were the breakouts of Kila and Aviles, at a time when no one thought there was any position player talent in the system, other than Moose. I suspect we'll spend the next three years getting really excited about five or six pitching prospects, and four of them will never end up being worth it.
Should Soria move to the rotation? Mark Teahen: Starter, Super Utility Man, or Trade Bait? – Devil Fingers
Re: Soria, I would say it depends on the reason. If they think he can’t handle the workload or maybe doesn’t have the stuff, then no. If the rationale is he’s better as a closer, then that’s the wrong way of thinking. Could Trey/Dayton maybe meet us halfway and at least occasionally have him pitch the 8th and the 9th? Re; Teahen- like most internet peeps, I have this fantasy world in which guys like Teahen might be cleverly and creatively used by their manager as a super sub guy. It’ll never happen though. Somehow, football… FOOTBAWLLLL is where the creative thinking gets done these days. Baseball just seems intellectually dead to me, with a few exceptions. If Teahen isn’t going to play then he should be traded. He has more value to another team. Of course, when that happens, I doubt I’ll be happy with who Dayton gets in return. So it’ll be fun all around.
What’s your favorite literary movement and why? ZeppellinDZ
(After deleting a few different long-winded lead-ins to my answer.) My favorite literary movement would probably be American neoclassical literature. Only rarely do I personally, emotionally, enjoy it as a reader but as a student it always fascinates me. In terms of style, every major aspect of American poetry in the late eighteenth century was pretty much completely repudiated and rejected by later writers, which makes them interesting. They were a joke by 1840 and forgotten by 1940. The eighteenth century just doesn’t fit the standard story we like to tell about American Literature, which was why I was a fourth year graduate student before I even really started reading it. So, like my favorite baseball team, I’ve identified with literary history’s losers.
What is Ken Harvey up to these days? – Warden11
Thinking that this next All-Star Game is the one he’ll get invited back to for a softball came or something. He’s texted with Scott Cooper about this very subject.
Is that even Jenna Fischer? Strange picture.
Why don’t they ever show Pam wearing a "hot" outfit? – Devil Fingers
I haven’t worked in an office for so long (but then again, have the NBC writers? and no, their office doesn’t count) but I would have to guess this is some effort at verisimilitude: Pam should always be modestly dressed and/or never seem by her co-workers outside the office complex. That, and it’s part of her character to not do so, as in the time she ordered that shirt thing online and then only wore it for half a day. It’s probably been awhile since Pam got slutted out and went to the bar, right? Is that what you mean by hot outfit? That being said, I think while Pam was in New York she started watching Mad Men because a) she was cheating on Jim with a guy from the show and b) she’s been doing some interesting things outfit wise this season. The last time Pam really really tried to look good was probably casino night, though. Pam & Jim are almost like one of those hippie/half-hippie couples whose whole vibe is being laid-back, only they've pushed it too far, almost into slob-zone. What would a Pam & Jim date look like? Probably a trip to Olive Garden featuring some making fun of the waiter and the high school kids next to them. She is probably putting an unrealistic amount of effort into her hair though. One last thing, would Dunder Mifflin still carry a receptionist at this point? Unless she’s making $7 dollars an hour, I doubt it. (Have you ever wondered how much Pam gets paid?) It’s the single most unrealistic part of the show. Pam may have been able to stick around up to the point she took her sabbatical, but the minute she left that job would have either been axed entirely, temped out, or given to a high school student. Pam would have been offered a sales-job, but nothing more.
Who are the 14 or 15 GMs that are worse than DM? –Gopherballs
By team, just to make it easier. Solid answers: Angels, Astros, Nationals, Reds, Giants, Dodgers. Probablies: Blue Jays, Orioles, Pirates, Twins, Rangers, Mets. Man, who else is really feelin’ good!!?
Breakdown the 25 man roster and compare each to Royals of the past. –kscoliny
I’m pretty bad on Royals history, but here are a few to chew on. Brian Bannister- D.A.R.Y.L. May, John Buck- Jim Sundberg, Jose Guillen- Poor Man’s Danny Tartabull with large dose of post-cliff Mark Quinn. Oh, and Greinke-Done. I actually see that one, on a couple levels.
Olivo or Buck? -A Devoted Reader
This is turning into one of the classic rivalries and internet topics, isn't it? The weird thing is, they're just so damn similar. Buck's career OPS+ is 82, Olivo's is 78. If there's a difference in their glovework, I don't see it. Buck is a little more patient, but is also capable of batting .210 or worse for weeks at a time, so overall it's something of a wash. Olivo is capable of turning in a single-digit walk total any given year however, which remains impressive. He's the perfect Dayton Moore acquisition: hacktastic, redundant on the roster, malcontented and a little over-priced. The Allard Baird regime left Dayton with John Buck, but there must have been some pressing need to bring in a seperate, non-Stormin' Mormon version. Still, he has his champions.
Who will be the Grand Marshall of the Parade? loyal2sdad
Well, Jesus is going to get the most thanks, we know that much. Scott Pose and David Howard will be in the lead car.
And now a Kaegel question, as requested.
Last spring we traded Justin Huber to San Diego for a player to be named. Have we received anything in return? -- Nick H., Lenexa, Kan.
Some things are like your virginity, well, your virginity if you’re female, when you give them up, it isn’t often worth even wondering what you got back in return. The price paid is just incalculable.
And what’s the deal with those funny-looking necklace thingies? –minda33
Sometimes, when I see something like a stupid rookie hazing stunt or listen to 95% of what George Brett has ever said or see the hemp-necklace craze or imagine what even trying to talk to someone like Josh Beckett must be like, I think, "well, ole boy, maybe it was for the best that you didn’t have 1% of the talent needed to be a Major League Baseball player." And I say this coming from a life that has been a complete and utter failure. Basically, I imagine a big league clubhouse as being eighth grade, only everyone has money and more self-confidence and everything they do is affirmed by millions every day. And I hated eighth grade. Point being, I'd be more hated than Arod and Donovan McNabb.
What are your favorite books on baseball?- hunter s. royal
I could re-read an old Baseball Prospectus without much prodding. Not because of the stats, but because of the writing. I’d say the majority of baseball literature I don’t really like however. I can only take the "baseball as America" or "baseball as life" stuff in very small doses and, for whatever reason, I’m not interested in most athletes as people. (This wasn’t always the case, I can remember being around twelve and reading a book about Spring Training called Short Season and being very affected by it, particularly a scene near the end featuring scouts evaluating a prospect negatively. I re-read it years later and found the whole book unreadable.) Some of the writing from the 1980s on on the post-career afterlife of DiMaggio and Ted Williams was really good, but at least in the case of Joltin’ Joe, it was very anti-mythological. He embodied nothing, he stood for nothing, he had no interests. He was a good-looking rich guy who dressed well and was basically a jerk to 95% of the people he ever met. It’s an embarrassment that anyone ever cared or could have seen him as anything more.
Why is veteran leadership and chemistry so undervalued in "the blogosphere"? – timlacy
Where do you begin? Aside from all the obvious points (i.e. examples of teams that hated each other that won, the fact that team chemistry is only talked about AFTER the team has won and that success itself makes people happier and believe they have magical special feelings for one another, not the other way around) I just go back to the basic point that baseball is not really a team sport. It’s a series of individual battles. There aren’t plays, there is almost no teamwork, etc. So, if you believe in the team chemistry thesis, you have to also believe that, say, at any given moment, Batter X isn’t really trying that hard unless Veteran Leader X hooked him up with the hottest groupie or gave him an inspirational Bible quote or whatever the night before. As for why the blogosphere believes in chemistry less, I would say it is because we’re never around the players, listening to them jabber about it. And yes, I think the players are wrong too.
You watched any MLB Network? A Trusted Fan
Yea, a little. I've enjoyed the few bits of the Hot Stove show that I've seen. Not a huge Harold Reynolds fan, but if nothing else the scrolling info bar is worth it. Hey Gabe Gross has signed... I watched a piece on the 1986 season, which predictably was pretty Buckner heavy. MOST. OVERRATTED. MOMENT. EVER. Has there ever been a more misinterpreted play? Its talked about like the Buckner error singlehandedly flipped that series. It didn't. Point number one, it is likely Mookie Wilson beats him to the bag anyway. This was probably why he lost focus on the ball to begin with. Point number two, the game WAS ALREADY TIED. Essentially, the Red Sox had already blown the game. As it was already tied, the Mets had a huge advantage going forward. Statistically, emotionally, however you want to measure it. Third, IT WAS GAME SIX. Boston still had another chance to win the series, and even had a late lead in Game Seven. Yet the Buckner play is continually talked about as if the Series just ended right there. Unbelievable. Why does no one ever mention these points? I hate the world we live in sometimes.
Are we truly in The Bleak Midwinter?- buddyball
Yes.
3 recs |
93 comments
Comments
Great offseasons stuff
Although I’d say that the Orioles, Pirates, and, yes, perhaps even the Blue Jays probably have better Gms.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 10:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pirates and Orioles... maybe
I just don’t know enough about them at the moment
JP is an interesting case… could go either way
by royalsreview on Jan 19, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JP and Dayton Moore are twins
I just can’t figure out who the “evil” one is
OK, JP is the obnoxious one with the slicke back hair
Dayton is the “nice” one who works real hard but…
The main reason people think JP is “worse” is because of his dumb comments and thin skin
On the other hand, he was picking up Marco Scutaro and Joe Inglett for next to nothing to put up aveage to above average production, as well as probably the best defensive team in baseball on a relatively small budget… while Dayton…
If you put Daytons PR skills and high school drafting boys together with J. P.‘s grasp of post -1919 everything else, you’d have a pretty good GM
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he also pay millions
For John McDonald and David Eckstein?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jan 19, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you check fangraphs
which has lower ratings for McDonalds defense than those I’ve seen, J. P. actually broke even on McDonald. He was okay paying McDonald (a legit good fielder) small prices, but, you’re not going to believe this, paying a utility guy a 7 figure salary didn’t work out. Eckstein didn’t work out either, although he had earned his cash two years before… and was $7.5M cheaper and 1 run better than Jose Guillen, and J. P. managed to dump him and be done.
I’m not saying J. P.‘s great. I’m saying that I’m not so sure Royals fans should be mocking him relative to GMDM.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i cant stand
how he managed to hold onto Zaun for so long. Bargain.
by gilmeche55 on Jan 19, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
quote
Dwight: And how big do you want this robot?
Michael: Lifesize.
Dwight: Mmm, no. Better make it two-thirds. Easier to stop if it turns on us.
by gilmeche55 on Jan 19, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i didnt notice till a few days ago...
that the Blue Jays pythag of 94-68 last year. JP is kinda nuts, but he does a good job
by gilmeche55 on Jan 19, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
other than the 2008 Royals
building a winner, one awesome offseason at a time
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is there a clip of that somewhere??
I’ve never even been able to pi down what simmons is talking about?
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Jan 19, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
it was when CBS had a shot of the Chiefs locker room after the game. I vaguely remember it
by gilmeche55 on Jan 19, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was
Hard Knocks the HBO show.
After a humiliating loss to either Miami or Cleveland in a preseason game. I remember it was really, truly pathetic
by raefzilla on Jan 19, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
O's under new management
Since MacPhail took over mid-season 2007, he has locked up Markakis to a below market deal that buys out his peak years, added a lot of cheap talent in Luke Scott, Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, George Sherrill, and Felix Pie, got out from under the Miguel Tejada contract, and signed some reasonable stopgaps to reasonable deals (Zaun, Izturis, Uehara). He was not responsible for them, but the Roberts, Huff, Mora, Baez, and Walker contracts all expire after this year.
Jon Daniels also had a rough start, but seems to have found his sealegs. The Rangers have built a monstrous minor league system and have done pretty well picking talent off the scrap heap (Milton Bradley, Marlon Byrd, Nelson Cruz).
by Gopherballs on Jan 20, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
best post ever.
this is a true win.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Jan 19, 2009 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if I'd known you were going to really answer so many questions
I’d have asked “better” ones
dead on re: Pam and Jim
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 10:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pam needs to be revived
I hate her dating-Jim personality
by royalsreview on Jan 19, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
she's not interesting with self-esteem
although turning her into a Peggy HIll know-it-all seems about right
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RIP Casino Night Pam

I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Jan 19, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the hotness peaked
and was buried
by royalsreview on Jan 19, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
slight return a Phyllis' wedding
they really should have ended the show after the third season
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be able to take much more Jim/Pam focus
but i still think the depth of the entire cast keeps it still wildly entertaining. And I don’t know what i’d do with out more dwight. Dwight Schrute is probably one of the all time greatest characters in TV history.
There are just so many lines that kill me. Like this one that just popped in to my head. “I went out and got drunk with my laser tag team last night. Crap! I never go out on a Thursday night. What the hell was I thinking?”
by wildthang on Jan 19, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it made asking all the questions worthwhile
thanks for taking the time.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Jan 19, 2009 10:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
19th century British poet Christina Rossetti:
In the bleak midwinter
Frosty wind made moan,
Earth stood hard as iron,
Water like a stone;
Snow had fallen,
Snow on snow,
Snow on snow,
In the bleak midwinter,
Long ago.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Jan 19, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also a Moody Blues song,
right?
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Jan 19, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitch F/x and Hitter F/x will change everything
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
by LeoBloom on Jan 19, 2009 10:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Epic post
You should really have a mailbag every once in awhile. This really brought out your “A” game.
Thoughts:
-Totally agree on expanding the regional reach with a series, or at the very least an exhibition game in Omaha or Oklahoma City or heck, Dodge City.
-Didn’t understand your answer to the Greinke/Soria question. Are you saying you’d rather part with Soria or you’d rather keep him?
-Totally nailed a Jim/Pam date. Olive Garden is so dead on accurate.
-“Breakdown the 25 man roster and compare each to Royals of the past.” – that totally sounds like a project for me to work on by opening day
-“Scott Pose and David Howard will be in the lead car.” And the confetti will be the torn up contracts of Mark and Storm Davis.
-Interesting thoughts on Joe D. Can’t say I disagree. But the man knew how to dunk a donut.
-I enjoyed that “1986” show on MLB Network. Liked how it wasn’t all Mets! Mets! Red Sox! Red Sox! Buckner! They gave a lot of props to the Angels and Astros, and focused on the rookies that year, of which there were some awesome ones (including our own Bo Jackson). I thought the show also did a good job showing that Buckner didn’t lose it for them. They had already blown it, and they also showed how the Red Sox were actually WINNING Game Seven. I hope they produce more shows about different MLB seasons, although I think it would be cool if they did the less obvious seasons. I don’t know much of anything about say 1983 or 1974. The Reds winning it all in 1990 is pretty overlooked. I’m counting on the MLB Network to fill the void left by ESPN and show stuff other than YANKEES YANKEES YANKEES RED SOX CUBS BUCKNER’S ERROR FISK HOME RUN (you want to talk about an overrated moment?!?!? THEY LOST THAT SERIES!!!)
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jan 19, 2009 11:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wally Joyner also got lots of love (looking bald and in front of a white space for some reason)
I would rather keep Soria, sorry for the confusion
by royalsreview on Jan 19, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the question assumed contracts
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 19, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Retro, I totally agree about the Fisk home run!
Even IN ‘75, that home run got almost as many column inches as the Reds’ actual victory.
(09/09/09)
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Jan 19, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming contracts, retaining Soria is understandable. Without contracts, Greinke is the obvious choice.
by Royals Nation on Jan 20, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good stuff.
I just got back from your mom's basement.
by Warden11 on Jan 19, 2009 11:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
re: Why Pam would still have a job as receptionist
Short answer: Michael Scott
Long answer: Harvey Mackay, bestselling author and envelope mogul, always claimed the receptionist was the most important position at his company. Is selling paper and envelopes so different? You decide.
by marbotty on Jan 19, 2009 11:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Can't believe more people don't major in literature.
You’ve answered all of life’s important questions.
by hunter s. royal on Jan 20, 2009 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Soria or Greinke?
Who would you rather part with, Joakim Soria or Zack Greinke? – focs
I think that question is going to be solved for us. Bye Bye Zack
by Royal from Queens on Jan 20, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Informative and entertaining responses.
But the Giants are, hands down, the worst run franchise in baseball. Not at all comparable to the Royals. I would also replace ‘Pirates’ with either combination of ‘Phillies’ and ‘Marlins’ as worse run than the Royals. I happen to think Huntington is pretty astute, but is hamstrung by piss-poor (early-to-mid decade Glass era) ownership. Also, Walt Jocketty was influential and more than competent in St. Louis, but he’s disappointed since taking helm in Cincinnati. He needs a large budget to succeed. I don’t think the new Cards’ G.M. is much more capable, either – he’s helped by a ridiculous pitching coach who makes sabermetricians look ridiculous every season. All Dombrowski has done is build one truly great team after years of a well above average to enormous budget. He’s highly overrated, IMO….certainly not one of the top G.M.‘s in the game. Shapiro is also overrated, as he has made many, many questionable moves, especially recently. Are the Rockies seriously that well run? I admire many of O’Dowd’s moves in theory, and he certainly avoids albatross contracts, but at some point in his 7 year tenure, sustained success has to happen. They’ve treaded water outside of a 2-month hot stretch during his entire reign. I guess he’s waiting to land Vlad Guerrero, Ryan Howard, and Zack Greinke in 2010.
by Royals Nation on Jan 20, 2009 3:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
OK, never mind about the Reds, they were on the list.
I truly don’t understand how the Rockies make the list, though. O’Dowd may be sabermetrically atune, but that philosophy – for him – has clearly failed, thus far. Results are results, people. Clearly, traditional methods often work and sabermetric methods sometimes don’t. He has failed as a G.M. in Colorado.
2008: 74-88
2007: 90-73
2006: 76-86
2005: 67-95
2004: 68-94
2003: 74-88
2002: 73-89
2001: 73-89
2000: 82-80
Hey, I would love to get continuous praise in the blogosphere to post those results, too!
by Royals Nation on Jan 20, 2009 3:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Phillies are poorly run?
Didn’t they win the World Series?
by jbrocato on Jan 20, 2009 7:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Early results on new administration, thus far, are not good.
The Nation at large. I'll be playing the role of RR Resident Optimist this offseason. What role will you assume?
by Royals Nation on Jan 20, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we're not asking who the "top" GMs are
just who’s better than Dayton Moore. I guess I’m just not patrioitc enough or whatever, but I see those as two subsets of dramatically different size
I’d also like to put this chart in the mix for how we evaluate GMs or any other organization or set of decisions:

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by devil_fingers on Jan 20, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The chart is too simplified
There are multiple good (and bad) processes. Dan O’Dowd has failed consistently. It’s not a good process.
The Nation at large. I'll be playing the role of RR Resident Optimist this offseason. What role will you assume?
by Royals Nation on Jan 20, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Expansion
Basically what I’m saying is that there are multiple methods of building a winner, and knowledge and execution of subjects are two vastly different things. Just because I’m a SABR guy who understands EqA, VORP, and WAR mean that I should assume duties for the Royals. The Braves, Angels, and Twins succeed using arguably the opposite methods. The Dodgers don’t. The Astros don’t. The Royals may or may not. The Red Sox and A’s, intermittently, succeed implementing those methods. The Blue Jays don’t. The Rockies don’t. The Padres do, sometimes. O’Dowd should not deserve a pass for failing to execute those methods. Perhaps we will know much more about baseball in 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 years….perhaps we will find definitive evidence to explain things both in the scouting and sabermetric realms. That would truly be awesome. For example, in the SABR realm, perhaps soon we will find definitive fielding metrics. In the scouting realm, perhaps we will find a correlation between blood types, muscle mass, brain size, and health. (Probably a bad example, but you get my point).
The Nation at large. I'll be playing the role of RR Resident Optimist this offseason. What role will you assume?
by Royals Nation on Jan 21, 2009 2:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not even distinguishing "stats" and "trad" orgs
in any case, only some trad orgs and their Scouts Honor lapdogs in the press think that saber-orgs “ignore” scouts. Scouting still dominates the player development side of every organization in the game — and mostly rightly so.
Ironically, while you employ the rhetoric of saying “BOTH stats and scouts,” while actually thinking in a more “black-and-white” world — you wrongly imagine that some orgs are dominated by sabermetrics, while there are none that come close (and that’s according to people who actually worked in baseball, not Dayton Moore fanboys like Bill Shank). You see that fielding metrics aren’t as precise as hitting metrics, so constantly set them aside (the only way the Guillen contract can seem to have been merely dumb at the time, instead of mind-blowingly idiotic)…
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by devil_fingers on Jan 21, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comment on Buckner and 1986
I thought Will made good points with his comment on the impact of Buckner’s error, particularly that the Red Sox still could have won Game 7. Shouldn’t the same point be made about Denkinger’s call?
by jbrocato on Jan 20, 2009 7:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
As well as the fact the Cards had several opportunities to get out of the inning unscathed, but dropped a foul pop up, threw a wild pitch and gave up a base hit to light hitting Dane Iorg.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jan 20, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
They had many opportunities throughout the entire series, and choked hard.
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Jan 20, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I get to lead a parade.
Me and my Spork.
Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!
by David Howards Legacy on Jan 20, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
On my question and your answer
My ? =
Why is veteran leadership and chemistry so undervalued in “the blogosphere”?– timlacy
Your answer:
Where do you begin? Aside from all the obvious points (i.e. examples of teams that hated each other that won, the fact that team chemistry is only talked about AFTER the team has won and that success itself makes people happier and believe they have magical special feelings for one another, not the other way around) I just go back to the basic point that baseball is not really a team sport. It’s a series of individual battles. There aren’t plays, there is almost no teamwork, etc. So, if you believe in the team chemistry thesis, you have to also believe that, say, at any given moment, Batter X isn’t really trying that hard unless Veteran Leader X hooked him up with the hottest groupie or gave him an inspirational Bible quote or whatever the night before.
Please provide empirical evidence of teams that “hated each other” and won. When you do this, we can pick apart your answer or at least come up with counterexamples (i.e. 1979 Pittsburgh Pirates, or many 1970s Pirates black teams).
Please also provide evidence of a team that talked about chemistry mattering after the fact? And if you find some, couldn’t it be the case that it still really matters? I mean, it’s illogical to say something didn’t matter only because people talked about it after the fact. Humans are reflective, and not often able to explain things WHILE they’re happening. This is why the profession of history matters—-i.e. perspective, examining evidence objectively, etc.
As for baseball NOT being a team sport, that’s just plain wrong. What of signs and stealing signs, in-game adjustments, pitchers coaching each other, batters coaching each other, coaches positioning players, etc. After pure athletic ability and hand-eye coordination, the next most important aspect of baseball is communication—-whether via signals, the spoken word, etc. Good teams have players who are willing to be coached by each other as much as by those “in charge.” This is a team endeavor, hands down. Period. End of story.
You said:
As for why the blogosphere believes in chemistry less, I would say it is because we’re never around the players, listening to them jabber about it. And yes, I think the players are wrong too.
Let me get this straight: When players talk about how chemistry matters, even midseason, you think they’re wrong? Interesting. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 11:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Chemistry
Please provide empirical evidence of teams that "hated each other" and won. When you do this, we can pick apart your answer or at least come up with counterexamples (i.e. 1979 Pittsburgh Pirates, or many 1970s Pirates black teams).
The 1978 Yankees did not get along at all, but won it all. Those 70s era A’s had a lot of guys that didn’t get along, and they had a dynasty. The 1986 Mets didn’t get along at all and they won more games than any NL team the last 50 years.
Of course there are counterexamples. Some winners get along, other don’t. That’s kinda evidence right there that chemistry isn’t vital to winning. Is it a factor? Maybe. But I think it tends to get overrated.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jan 20, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is an out and out lie
The 1986 Mets didn’t get along at all and they won more games than any NL team the last 50 years.
An inside source told me that members of the ’86 Mets got along very well. Strawberry and Gooden were even seen taking turns looking at themselves in a mirror they shared.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Jan 20, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
THe '86 Mets got along with each other
They just hated everyone else. The entire league couldn’t stand them.
by Royal from Queens on Jan 20, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Did not get along."
What does that mean? In what way? How many? For how long?
Look, I’m not arguing that chemistry has to be perfect, or that every single player has to attend church together. I am arguing that, no matter their personality differences, they have to communicate in a team atmosphere. Plus, you only need a critical mass of communicators to put your team over the top. Sometimes only 4-5 players can give the team the chemistry it needs. Sometimes a good manager can impose chemistry. Not that imposition implies here, but what of Howser and the 85 KC team? What of Torre and good portion of late 90s Yankees teams?
But let’s agree that some level of chemistry/cooperation/good communication matters for the part of the sport that is team oriented. The questions are how much and how? Do they all have to be FCA guys? No. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe
I think at this point the burden is clearly on the side of the people who think “chemistry matters” to give measurable evidence that it is so that isn’t accounted for in the statistical performance of the team as as whole or the individual players. And you have to control for luck, too.
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by devil_fingers on Jan 20, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it matters
But in what way? How much? For how long? Who knows? No one knows, so any attempts to “create” good clubhouse chemistry are going to be futile. Bringing in a “good clubhouse guy” to teach the younger guys is a silly gesture since we don’t know how good chemistry is created. So why worry about it? It either happens organically or it doesn’t. And its all probably ancillary to winning games.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jan 20, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I see.
Because it can’t be measured it’s “futile” and “silly” to shoot for it? Wow.
And who said teams don’t know how to create it? I think GMs and managers have a good idea how it’s created and how it matters, or else they wouldn’t perennially shoot for it. And GMs and managers aren’t paid to wait for things to happen magically. I mean, that’s what some have been all over GMDM about with regard to OBP. It’s a skill that has to be fostered and seen statistically, and therefore we can aim for guys who demonstrate it. That’s not magic. But because chemistry can’t be measured statistically we shouldn’t shoot for it?! – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chemistry
“Because it can’t be measured it’s "futile" and "silly" to shoot for it? Wow.”
Of course it is. If I do not have a map, it is silly for me start driving directionless. If we don’t know how good chemistry is created, it doesn’t make any sense to make moves to create it, particularly if it comes at the expense of bringing in good players. If I bring in Player X I might think I am making the chemistry better, but who knows, maybe I am making it worse. It is very hard to predict human behavior, especially collective human behavior. To try to “create” chemistry by predicting how a team will react is folly.
“And who said teams don’t know how to create it?”
I think you kinda implied it when you said:
“But let’s agree that some level of chemistry/cooperation/good communication matters for the part of the sport that is team oriented. The questions are how much and how?”
How can we ever test how chemistry matters? We can’t. I’m sure GMs think they have a good idea of how its created, but does that mean they really do? Not necessarily.
All we have to rely on is anecdotal evidence that terribly confuses cause and effect relationships. Does winning breed chemistry or does chemistry breed winning? We cannot possibly know.
“But because chemistry can’t be measured statistically we shouldn’t shoot for it?!”
I don’t think we should, particularly if it means forgoing better ballplayers in order to get “gritty” guys like Willie Bloomquist.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jan 20, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Chemistry matters so much
that Moore went out of his way to sign noted good teammates Guillen, Farnsworth, and Olivo.
He also went above and beyond to try add some punch to the clubhouse by nearly trading for Milton Bradley and picking up Roman Colon off of waivers.
by Top Ramen on Jan 20, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bradley would have been an unbelievably awesome move, in retrospect. Colon was a good, though inconsequential, move. I was content with Guillen at the time. The first Olivo signing was OK, the second one was less so. The Farnsworth signing was bad.
The Nation at large. I'll be playing the role of RR Resident Optimist this offseason. What role will you assume?
by Royals Nation on Jan 21, 2009 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please prove my subjective statement
by using objective information. GO!
That’s a little unfair
by gilmeche55 on Jan 20, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If the opinion were...
…presented in a subjective fashion, then I wouldn’t have responded in the way that I did. RR presented his opinion vigorously, in a way that asked for a reply. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, RR cited some...
…facts, if vaguely (i.e. winning teams that hate each other, talking about things after winning). – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're sort of answering your own question here
First of all, it’s pretty hard to argue about how “undervalued” chemistry is “on the blogosphere.” How do you accurately assess how “valued” the topic of chemistry is on baseball blogs? Survey every relevant blog and see how many posts are dedicated to the subject?
Secondly, even if we do assume that chemistry is not discussed as often as other topics, I don’t think that necessarily means that it isn’t “valued” by bloggers, commenters, and fans who frequent baseball blogs. As all these comments are establishing, it’s very difficult to have reasonable, meaningful discussions about it. What does “chemistry” really mean? How do you judge it? Is there a chicken/egg issue with chemistry and winning? How do random fans/bloggers/commenters really know what is going on in a clubhouse? Unless something is reported in the media, then very few (if any) of us will truly be qualified to speak to chemistry.
Chemistry is a subjective, intangible subject, as opposed to more objective things such as stats (advanced, sabermetric or otherwise), signings, wins/losses, draft picks, etc. Even with the tangible, objective nature of all those things, everyone in the blogosphere manages to argue quite a bit about what they all mean. Arguing about something as vague, amorphous, and intangible as team chemistry just doesn’t seem like it would be that fun because neither side would truly know for sure what they’re arguing about.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it."
I'm puffing away, Hal.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 20, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
By blogosphere I basically...
…meant here, at Royals Review.
I didn’t say that chemistry isn’t discussed, but rather that it is not valued in team building by the blogosphere (again, here).
On stats and arguing, good point. But, arguing about amorphous stuff is also fun. I find it fun. And it gives me the added bonus of writing in narrative as opposed to long tortuous posts filled with numbers and equations and shistuff. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's like building a team based on spirituality
A player’s spirituality could be important. It could be extremely important. Or it might not be a meaningful factor in a teams performance at all. Who knows. Considering it is so much of an unknown, should it really be something a GM uses as part of his decision making on which players he acquires?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jan 20, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More wiccans, please!
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by devil_fingers on Jan 20, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, like it or not, ...
…GMs do this consistently, year after year. How do you explain it? Are they all adherents to African voodoo sects? – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think what GM's do every year is try to put together the most talent
I think team chemistry is about 37th on their list of priorities. In their recent World Series years, the Yankees had many players who reportedly didn’t like each other. But they had a hell of a lot of talent. Talent wins. Chemistry is just something fun for TV commentators and fans to talk about.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jan 20, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
+1. It’s so much easier to tolerate assholes when you have the chance to win a ring. If you’re already at the bottom, what is the incentive to not call someone a jackass?
I just got back from your mom's basement.
by Warden11 on Jan 20, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tell that to all those...
…players who escaped from SF during the Bonds era, or the Cubs during the Sosa era. I recall a lot of sniping about Bonds and his special trainer and locker situation and entourage. And look at the trail of garbage that followed Sammy Sosa (i.e. smashed boomboxes, Mark Grace ripping Sosa from afar, etc.).
If chemistry doesn’t matter, or matters little, then wouldn’t every team want to have a roster full of Bonds or Sosa types? – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See...
that’s generally the only time you really hear about chemistry—when there is one pure and utter asshole that everyone hates. And one of the only reasons that guy acts like an asshole, and is allowed to continue to be an asshole, is because he’s incredibly talented. The TPJ’s of the world aren’t going to pull the kind of shit that Bonds and Sosa were getting away with during their primes. At least, not for long.
Whenever you hear about how much teammates like each other and they “really came together as a team,” is generally right after a big in-season or post-season win…which usually means that it is a very talented team to begin with. I’ll bet that some of the more recent Royals teams had some great chemistry, with guys that generally liked each other. But no one gives a shit when a team doesn’t have the talent to be successful. Unless you’re the Cubs—then you get to dub yourselves the “Lovable Losers.”
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it."
I'm puffing away, Hal.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 20, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know what it takes to be a Bonds or Sosa type a-hole?
A truckload of production and counting numbers that follow. I’m not saying that a happy clubhouse is irrelevant, but clubhouses are much happier after they win than when they lose.
Last question, so because Bonds was/is an asshole, the Giants didn’t win? He didn’t help that team win a lot of games?
I just got back from your mom's basement.
by Warden11 on Jan 20, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Talent wins"
37th, uh, yeah right. Good one. Tell that to the Detroit Tigers, or even THIS year’s Yankees. And what about the Twins’ “grit” that many here like to make fun of. It looks to me like unselfish, team-oriented play with moderate-to-above-average talent. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
[sigh]
I give up. Chemistry is extremely important. I’m glad the Royals are throwing millions at it, at the same time they are giving more millions to obviously selfish assholes like Guillen, Farnsworth and Olivo. Hey, whatever works, right?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jan 20, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no need to...
…take my advocating on behalf of chemistry’s virtues to the other extreme. My point is only that you need a critical mass to push the team in a positive direction, so that the team overall feels both that others are psychologically pulling pulling for them and that unselfish play will occur when necessary.
It’s not an either/or world of chemistry or talent. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 21, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you feel it isn't valued or discussed enough...
then by all means, post a regular chemistry report for everyone to discuss. I’d definitely be interested in it, especially to the extent that commenters might have some inside knowledge. It would be great to know what the various players thought of each other, who their best friends are on the team, who hates each other, who gave who a certain nickname, pranks that may have been pulled, etc. That kind of stuff might be able to explain certain situations on the field. Plus, it’s a lot of fun to hear about. I’m guessing all that information would be pretty hard to come by with any certainty, though.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it."
I'm puffing away, Hal.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 20, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll tell you what.
It might be more interesting and perhaps as insightful as boring statistical analysis. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Talking about fantasies can be more interesting than talking about reality
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jan 20, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
While I wouldn't call all statistical analysis boring...
I definitely think a regular chemistry post would be just as interesting as many purely statistics-oriented posts. The problem is coming up with the base material for a chemistry post. Stats are stats. They’re out there for anyone and everyone to use, and they are what they are. The stuff that happens in the clubhouse doesn’t come out very often, if ever. At least in definitive detail. That’s why you need an anonymous “Deep Throat” on the inside to feed you some juicy details on a regular basis. Like I’d said, I’d love to read regular reports on that.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it."
I'm puffing away, Hal.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 20, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be great entertainment.
I’m sure people would be shocked if they found out how few of these guys actually liked each other. It’s their work, if someone is an asshat and doesn’t carry their weight, people are going to bitch. However, someone that produces can be an asshat and get away with it.
I just got back from your mom's basement.
by Warden11 on Jan 20, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but thats coach/player not player/player… not a sign of teamwork
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
by AvilesRotY on Jan 20, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The best I could think of.
Please provide empirical evidence of teams that "hated each other" and won.
Word out on the street is, the 2004 Chicago White Sox weren’t big fans of each other and they won. I remember reading a couple of articles on how they didn’t get along very well.
I am probably mistaken however because now that I’m searching for articles online I can’t find anything.
Maybe somebody can back me up here?
by Royal from Queens on Jan 20, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
It’s just that every team with AJ Pierzynski on it looks, from the outside in, like it has a chemistry problem. He’s apparently a pretty good teammate, much like Milton Bradley is most of the time. Both are generally well-liked by their teammates. Pierzynski got a bad rap from his one year problem in San Francisco. – TL
by timlacy on Jan 20, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're going to paper over every clubhouse with dissension that had success?
So if they succeeded, then they must have had good team chemistry, right? The White Sox have had a good deal of infighting in 2004 and 2005. Yeah, even in 2005. It was frequently reported in the Trib and the CST and discussed at Soxtalk.com and whitesoxinteractive.com. There were arguments between players and between players and Ozzie. And yet they won.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jan 20, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Buck and Peralta have agreed to 1 year contracts according to 810AM
Terms undisclosed
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Jan 20, 2009 1:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
does Peralta's deal include getting someone to pack for him?
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Jan 20, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only Minda knows that
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Jan 20, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh.
Why do I ever tell you people anything?
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Jan 20, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you're an aspiring journalist
isn’t the first rule that the public needs to know everything, no matter how sordid or personal?
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 20, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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