Team Local Number 54 (all-grit team)

by tcon125 on Jan 7, 2009 3:40 PM EST Comment 48 comments

Pretty ridiculous topic, I know, but who are your all-grit players. The picks can be arbitrarily based, and without logic, but I think it would be fun to see everyone's picks.

Local 54, for those of you who do not attend ISU football games or mock announcers with my friends and I, is the name of the fictitious union of gritty players. It started with the metaphor used by many announcers that the player was like a steelworker who had grabbed his thermos/hardhat/lunch pail, and had punched in for work. This morphed into the player being a "card carrying member of Local Number 54".

So have at it. If I get enough entries I'll tally the teams and give an official Royals Review "Local Number 54 team" with a bio for all the players. Maybe one of you smarter statisticians could run some analysis on the players to see how this Local 54 team would actually perform.

Maybe this is dumb, but I thought I'd give it a shot.

I'll start with my picks. (players do NOT have to be active)

1b- Mark Grace

2b-Bill Mazeroski

3b-Gary Gaetti

SS-David Eckstein

C- Jason Kendall

CF-Jim Edmonds

RF-Pete Rose

LF-Raul Ibanez

SP-Jeff Suppan

M-Sparky Anderson

P.S.

I googled all-grit after struggling to find a left fielder, and came across a similar article by the Brew Crew site. http://www.brewcrewball.com/2008/7/14/571285/the-all-grit-team And here was the team he put together. Not surprisingly we both liked the players who don't wear batting gloves/ are sub 5'5".

C Jason Kendall

1B Platoon: Doug Mientkiwicz / Kevin Millar

2B Mark Grudzielanek

3B Ryan Freel

SS David Eckstein

LF Scott Podsednik

CF Aaron Rowand

RF Eric Byrnes

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Comments

I think Erstad would be somewhere on my team

Perhaps a utility CF/1B. Age, injury, competitiveness, bad stats = grit.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 7, 2009 3:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If it's all-Grit, then Erstad should not only be on the team

but starting at CF and hitting cleanup

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by devil_fingers on Jan 7, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and punting

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jan 7, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Your list

Is not fair to Dougie.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 7, 2009 3:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

gotta have

Lenny Dykstra, probably Craig Biggio too

by dn_311 on Jan 7, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

was gaetti gritty?

he was hated as a huge bust in california and always seemed more sleazy than gritty to me

by royalsreview on Jan 7, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

no batting gloves and dirty helments

You have to have biggio and possibly vlad…just because he is (was?) good doesn’t mean he wasn’t gritty.

by xthreatx on Jan 7, 2009 5:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Orlando Cabrera

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

somewhere recently

there was a post or comment on here to a very funny grit formula. we need to find that and use it.

LF Ibanez? I thought we proved last year that Gloadie can play a mean LF. He’s mucho grittier.

I AM intangible!

by kabrink on Jan 7, 2009 7:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This was my version

Here.

There have been other attempts as well.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 7, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

there we go!

I AM intangible!

by kabrink on Jan 7, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WOW!

your post is awesome! A gritiness average, haha

At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....

by tcon125 on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1B – Ross Gload
2B – Ross Gload
3B – Ross Gload
SS – Ross Gload
C – Ross Gload
LF – Ross Gload
RF – Ross Gload
CF – Ross Gload
P – Ross Gload (and no relievers because Ross Gload would grit his way through the whole game.)

M – Ross Gload

Didn’t Hillman say something to the media once about what he could do with a team full of Gloads? (shudder)

WTF, self?

by minda33 on Jan 8, 2009 12:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

damn it damn it damn it

you completely stole my thunder!! i was going here!!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

you win this round.

Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.

by doublestix on Jan 8, 2009 3:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Score!

Stealing your thunder is like my 3rd-favorite sport.

WTF, self?

by minda33 on Jan 8, 2009 4:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

C – Jason Kendall
1B – Darin Erstad
2B – Craig Biggio
3B – Ryan Freel
SS – David Eckstein
OF – Eric Byrnes
OF – Paul O’Niel
OF – Aaron Rowand

on the bench Joe McEwing, Trot Nixon, Shane Victorino, and according to Dick Kaegal, Hal McCrae was the grittiest player to ever wear a Royals uniform.

SP – Jeff Suppan
RP – Paul Byrd

Ugh.

by Royal from Queens on Jan 8, 2009 1:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

A good case can be made for Charlie Hough in the rotation

25 major league seasons. Pitched through age 46. Career knuckleballer. 13 seasons exclusively as a starting pitcher, and they were his last 13 seasons. He didn’t become a full-time starter until age 34. I don’t know about you, but that all sounds pretty damn gritty to me.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 1:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

+ anyone who craps their pants

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by devil_fingers on Jan 8, 2009 2:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I won't let you put George Brett on an all-grit team

It’s too offensive.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 2:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Knuckleballers aren't gritty

They’re seen as a gimmick.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 8, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but did you see Hough pitch?

When he was 40, he looked like he was 60. He looked like the grittiest player in history.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would argue that all knuckleballers should be considered gritty

the grittier they are, the better the knuckleball works

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jan 8, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A few gritty names from the past

Carlton Fisk
Jack Morris
Graig Nettles
Don Mattingly

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 8, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

odalis needs to be on the list

by royalsreview on Jan 8, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Royal's All Grit Team

1B Dougie
2B Gritsalllonick
SS Sanchez
3B Randa
C Zaun
OFGload
OF B McCrae
OF Otis? (not sure on this one)

P – Suzuki
P – Byrd
P – Suppan

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jan 8, 2009 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

nooooo

Amos Otis stole WAaaaay too many bases

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by devil_fingers on Jan 8, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SB's are a major grit factor

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

from a black guy?

also, he had an “attitude.” Didn’t like to give interviews, from what I’ve read

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by devil_fingers on Jan 8, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Even from a black guy

For largely aesthetic reasons, I don’t include race in my GRIT calculations, but I recognize that it is a factor. Given equal grittiness, the white guy is going to get more of a grit label than the black guy. But I think Gathright had a fair amount of grit, and a lot of that came from his speed, stolen bases and inability to hit.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Take grit to jump cars

Gathright now replaces Otis

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jan 8, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but Otis still wouldn't make it from what you say below

I’d say the production rules him out. The defensive numbers are sketchy (TotalZone), but in his primes, I’d say Otis was almost as valuable as Carlos Beltran`

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by devil_fingers on Jan 8, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True, but I'd like to run his EqGRIT before I say for sure

Numbers don’t lie.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you have to have Hal McCrae on this team

if you don’t, he will throw a tape recorder at you!

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jan 8, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

McRae - sorry

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future. - Collected sayings of Muad'Dib

by buddyball on Jan 8, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No Brett??? Too offensive???

How one can not include George Brett on this list is absurd, how everyone can exclude him is ridiculous. Sure he was a superstar in KC and thus you may be able to get away with not calling him a average hard working joe, but then you look at how he played . . . he played like the average hard working Joe. His only downfall to exclude him from this list is that he was popular.

Brett played with intensity every frickin game. I remember going to a mid June game against the White Sox in his last year and he drives a routine single out to left/left center. The outfielder picks up the ball on one hop only to see Brett digging hard for second base. By then it was too late and Brett had put the winning run on second in the bottom of the 9th. He ran out every frickin ball, he knew no such things as batting gloves, and besides Pete Rose he might have been one of the most intense players in the game.

I want to hear why no one has Brett on this list.

Mr. Weatherstone

by Mr. Weatherstone on Jan 8, 2009 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My theory

While this is something of an oversimplification, I think there is an inverse relationship between production and grit. “Production” being defined as actually playing well and really helping your team with on-field contributions.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Gritty players get new contracts for many years based almost exclusively on effort, not really on actual production. George Brett had way too much actual baseball credibility to fit this definition of “grit.”

WTF, self?

by minda33 on Jan 8, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the high batting average helped, though

which is why Mike Schmidt may have better numbers in things like “runs created,” and “on-base percentage,” and “defense,” , but he will never, ever, be as gritty as G.B.

I bet Mike Schmidt never even had a wet fart, either.

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by devil_fingers on Jan 8, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jim Leyland - Manager

I’d like to see Jim Leyland as manager of the all-grit team. In the team photo he could be smoking a Marlboro.

by Deaner on Jan 8, 2009 5:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We aren't going back far enough, I don't think

Doesn’t anyone remember when men were (mustachioed) men? We need to consider the nineteenth century here. Here’s my all-time grit team (racism is a plus for grit). Also part of my grit definition was that a gritty player “helps the team win ballgames” in any and all ways (aside from a preponderance of rally-killing home runs).

1B (player-manager) Adrian “Cap” Anson Noted racist, mustache wearer, encourager of aggressive base running. “Cap” is short for “Captain” a true leader of (white) men.
2B Bobby Gri(t)ch Literally personifies Grit (type in Grit on Baseball-Reference.com and you will be sent to his page). Also an excellent fieldsman, batsman, mustache-wearer.
3B John McGraw (player-first base coach); his punching, tripping and hitting of opposing baserunners likely led to baseball’s requiring more umpires on the field
SS Walter “Rabbit” Maranville short (5’5"), scrappy, notorious prankster and clubhouse guy, played 23 seasons; lifetime .258 batting avg. and .318 OBP are perfect for a defensive-minded shortsop.
CF James “Cool Papa” Bell supposedly stole two bases on one pitch, Anson could use him as a motivational tool for his white players to get them to hustle even more.
LF Ty Cobb Racist, surly, had his own brand of cigarettes, plus he’s probably extra gritty since Bell took his CF spot.
RF Pete Rose (early career, crew-cut version) Charlie Hustle, also 3rd base coach.
C William “Buck” Ewing nice, understated nickname; awesome mustache; HOFer; first to scout batters; typically gloveless; died of diabetes

Util. (more or less sinecures, with such a gritty starting lineup): Scott Pose (recommended by gritty manager Tony Muser), Ross Gload (because he’s awesome)
Pinch Runner (in case player gets thrown out fighting with opposing fieldsmen or umpires): William “Sliding Billy” Hamilton Stole lots of bases, only 5’6," first NJ-born HOFer, also played for KC Cowboys in 1888-89.

SP Mordecai “Three Finger” Brown Mangled hand in farm accident. Noted ground ball pitcher—not a strikeout guy, like that’s important for anything. .
SP 2: Gaylord Perry gritty veteran, noted ball-doctorer, pine tar bat hider-awayer.

No need for relievers or anyone else. I suppose Gload could be the emergency pitcher if Brown were to lose another finger and/or Perry were to be hospitalized for eating tainted Vaseline.

by mikewormdog on Jan 8, 2009 6:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs