Insane Trade Ideas Involving Jose Guillen
Jose Guillen will earn $12 million dollars next year. He's not a good baseball player: he can't hit anymore and he is probably one of the two or three worst outfielders in the American League. He's in the way. He makes life more complicated for the Royals, and frankly, the Royals don't need things to be any more difficult than they already are.
The Royals need to trade Jose Guillen. Everybody realizes this. The only problem is that there is no real trade market for a terrible and expensive ballplayer with injury history who also happens to have a horrible reputation in the industry (Dayton Moore everyone!).
I don't think we can overstate just how unappealing he is right now, which is why the Royals should simply release him and move on. I really have no sense of how likely this is. Yes, just two years ago Moore voluntarily brought Guillen in, and yes, his bad play is not a recent development. That being said, Moore has shown an ability to cut bait on a failed experiment (Tony Pena Jr., Gload) albeit in a tardy fashion before. It would not stun me if this happened, although it would not stun me if Guillen is the Opening Day starter in right-field either.
There is one way the Royals might be able to trade Guillen, and that is to use him to solve someone else's problem. Many have suggested a seemingly logical Guillen-Bradley trade with the Cubs in just this vein. Bradley's situation in Chicago is certainly toxic, however, he remains an actually good player and, despite a widespread assumption that his contract is a disaster, he's set to earn just $9 million in 2010 and $12 million in 2011. I think the Cubs will hear better offers than a Guillen swap.
The key for the Royals might be finding someone who should be as desperate as they are. I think they can do this by inquiring about overpaid players signed to long-term deals. Can the Royals turn Jose Guillen into someone else's salary dump? The key is to think less about the money and more about the player, if the Royals can turn Jose Guillen into a good player, they should at least consider the move. Granted, I think many of these proposed trades are insane. I'm probably shaming all of us by even giving them the light of day. However, I also think that there's a small bit of "hey, this isn't half bad, maybe there's something to this."
Let's go:
- Insane Idea #1- Guillen for Vernon Wells. Wells has a no-trade clause and would probably hate the idea of coming to Kansas City. Nevertheless, the situation in Toronto has soured and he may not want to be a Blue Jay as the team (presumably) rebuilds. In exchange for the last year of Guillen's contract, the Royals would have to take on Wells' deal, which is downright onerous: $12.5 M in 2010, $23 M in 2011, $21 M in 2012, $21 M in 2013, $21 M in 2014. That's $98.5 million, though in effect only $86.5 million after the swap. The catch is that Wells might be a productive player for most of this deal. He had a anti-career year in 2009 and he needs to leave CF. If he does the latter, he'll regain alot of his overall value, which could coincide with a few bounceback years at the plate. Yea, from a pure WAR perspective he will not earn his salary, but if he's a $9 million dollar player earning $23 million, that's not the end of the world. Yea, 2012-2014 are gonna be pretty painful, but if the Royals are gonna try to compete in 2010, an outfield of DeJesus-Someone-Wells has the potential to be really good defensively, with two nice bats. I think the Jays would make this deal right now, so maybe the Royals get greedy and ask for some money back in the swap or even a favorable secondary exchange of prospects. (Wells also has an opt-out option after 2011, which seems unspeakably unlikely to occur, but I thought it was worth mentioning.)
- Insane Idea #2- Guillen for Barry Zito. A similar trade as above. Zito has $94 million left on a contract that runs through 2014, if an option for the final year vests. I'd be afraid of Zito returning to the American League, but his mini-comeback season in 2009 makes this trade one you'd at least pause to consider. If you assume the 2013 club option (which is tied to innings) doesn't vest and factor in the Guillen savings, then the Zito contract is equivalent to a four year, $64 million dollar deal. The Royals would head into Spring Training with a rotation of Greinke, Meche, Tejeda/Bannister/Davies/Hochevar #1, Tejeda/Bannister/Davies/Hochevar#2, and Zito. With Tejeda/Bannister/Davies/Hochevar#3 potentially a high-leverage bullpen arm and insurance policy. Zito was overrated as an A and is probably underrated now. Yea, his contract sucks, but it isn't your money.Tell me you're not doing a double take on this one? OK, maybe you aren't.
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Insane Idea #3- Guillen for Carlos Silva. Silva is owed $23 million total for 2010-11, which becomes $25 million with a presumed buyout after 2011. Silva's contract is terrible, but he's also much worse than Zito or Wells. Less money, lesser player. However, when you factor in the savings of Guillen's salary, he's only really the next Kyle Farnsworth. I don't want Moore trading with Dr. Z anymore, but this isn't a completely unmerited trade for either side. Maybe Silva even gives you a 0.7 WAR season or something, it could happen.
- Insane Idea #4- Guillen for Aaron Rowand. Rowand has three years and $36 million remaining on a fat contract signed two years ago. I'm not sure the Giants view him as a problem, but with his annual salary set to increase, they could be interested in moving him to help their chances of keeping Tiny Tim around. Rowand, like Wells, may eventually need to leave centerfield, but he probably wouldn't be terrible there in 2010. A DDJ-Someone-Rowand outfield would be very strong defensively, which could help make up for Rowand's subpar bat. If you factor in the Guillen savings, this swap would leave the Royals paying Rowand $8 million a year.
- Insane Idea #5- Guillen for Gary Matthews Jr. Did you know that Gary Matthews Jr.'s regrettable contract now only has two years remaining? Matthews is owed $23 million total for 2010-11, which is barely anything compared to some of the guys we've seen. The GMJ contract has to go down as one of the worst of the decade, as he's given the Angels nothing from the very beginning. His offensive and defensive numbers are bad, but with regular playing time, I think he can be better. Not good, but vaguely ok. Of course, the Angels seem unlilkely to make this move, given management's long-standing problems with Guillen. When you're dreaming about a Gary Matthews Jr. trade and regretting these difficulties, you realize just what Dayton Moore has done to you.
- Insane Idea #6- Guillen for Alfie Soriano. Soriano, incredibly, still has $90 million left on his massive contract, thanks to an $18 million dollar annual salary that runs through 2014. I think I'd rather have Vernon Wells.
- Insane Idea #7- Guillen for Kosuke Fukudome. The time to make this deal was last winter, when Guillen may have still had some appeal and Fukudome's contract looked worse. Still, the Cubs would get out of the $26.5 million dollar obligation they have to Fukudome, in exchange for eating Guillen's $12 million. Fukudome's defense rated well in 2008, and was bad in 2009, so his overall value both seasons has been about the same. I wouldn't hesitate to make this deal, which also means the Cubs wouldn't do it. Then again, the Cubs have some massive contracts and (partially) selling off Fukudome could be appealing.
- Insane Idea #8- Guillen for Dice K. My original idea was to look at swapping out JD Drew's contract, but its really not that bad, and I think the Boston FO values Drew's game, even if the general public doesn't. Dice-K is a different story, and the Red Sox owe him $28 million over the next three seasons. Guillen would never see the light of day in a Red Sox uniform, but the Red Sox would save $16 million in the process. The question is, would you want Dice-K for three years/$16 million?
I think you get the idea I'm proposing here: the Royals use their own Guillen salary dump to take on a bigger salary problem of somebody else's making. The key is finding a player who currently has a contract that is now seen is a milestone in his current situation, but is, in reality, not that bad of a deal
I'd make the Guillen for Silva, Guillen for Fukudome, Guillen for GMJ, Guillen for Rowand moves right now. The Guillen for Zito and Guillen for Wells deals, probably the craziest (outside of the Soriano one, which I'm keeping in just to let you know I'm not out of my mind), would be tough to make but have some appeal. The money's pretty close, but I think I'd rather take on Zito than Wells. Dice-K is essentially a reprise of the Silva situation, though he still holds some promise.
There are sound arguments why doing a trade like this is a bad idea. Why compound a problem? Why take on more bad salary? The simplest thing to do would just be to release Guillen. Given the long-term contracts already given to Meche, Soria, & Greinke, the Royals don't really have any building blocks at the moment that need to be locked up with any urgency, save perhaps Billy Butler. Our attitude towards payroll should always be the same: we should only care insomuch as any contract has an ability to affect other moves or grant unjustified playing time. To different extents, all these bad contracts might do so, though I'm tempted to say something about how keeping Dayton Moore off the free agent market might not be a bad thing.
So what do you think?
4 recs |
84 comments
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Comments
None of the Above
I would vote to keep and/or release Guillen and deal with the LAST year of his contract. I liken your trade suggestions to the guy who is way in debt over his head that goes out and gets a 2nd mortgage to pay of his current debt while not realizing he just signed onto even more debt.
by kcfan4ever64 on Oct 14, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly...
I would rather have 1 year of expensive sucking then numerous years of expensive sucking.
This post was part of The Process
by ksuroyals on Oct 14, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but most of the guys above do not suck
they are just overpaid
by Will McDonald on Oct 14, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I understand your idea,
I vote for “pray that he suffers a season ending injury early in 2010”.
I simply do not see the Royals releasing him as a sunk cost. It’s one thing to admit a paltry 2 or 3 million dollar mistake – but to walk away from 12 million and justify that to Glass is simply something I don’t envision Moore doing.
So, assuming we are stuck with him, at least let’s hope Hillman figured out that he should only be a DH (and preferably a platoon DH); that way, he can only hurt us when batting instead of when batting and when defending.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Oct 14, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't expect they'll release him either
which really mucks up the 1B/DH/COF situation
by Will McDonald on Oct 14, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like the idea of turning a $12 million problem into a $20+ million problem
No one is going to play Guillen, so this really becomes a question of whether the other team would give away the player’s contract for $12 million.
Rowand, Fukudome, and especially Matsuzaka would never happen. Rowand is overpaid, but not $12 million overpaid. It is the same for Fukudome. Despite this year’s injuries, Matsuzaka is, you know, good, just not as good as initial expectations. Theo might be polite on the telephone, but you know the minute he hangs up that he would call Allard into his office and they would share a long, hearty laugh.
If Silva or GMJ were owed the same as Guillen, sure, but for a net cost of about $12 million, the Royals could find much, much better players than either one (and maybe a couple of them).
The other deals would be massive financial disasters for the Royals that would set the franchise back another decade.
by Gopherballs on Oct 14, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Silva or GMJ were owed the same as Guillen, sure, but for a net cost of about $12 million, the Royals could find much, much better players than either one (and maybe a couple of them).
you sure about that?
thats the one thing we should keep in mind with the royals: they are not good at finding cheap talent, especially at the position player level… dayton moore has essentially brought in one ok position player (Callaspo) during his tenure
by Will McDonald on Oct 14, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even with Dayton, I'd take the $13 million over Silva seven days a week and twice on Sundays
With Silva not exactly young, coming off a serious injury, and no longer much of a groundball pitcher, I think you are looking at paying $13 million for maybe 1.0 WAR over two years. Even Dayton should be able to do better than paying $13 million per win.
by Gopherballs on Oct 14, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
Silva is terrible. Disco Hayes is better than Silva. Why would we pay for that? We’re better off dumping Guillen and getting nothing in that case.
by AxDxMx on Oct 15, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure the Mariners would do that deal.
Silva at least fills the low-leverage mop-up role that Batista will vacate, and Guillen’s already been a Mariner.
Also, I don’t know what Kauffman’s park factors look like, but Safeco at least hides some of Silva’s terrible pitching.
by xero3k on Oct 23, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you basically found only 9 contracts worse than Guillen's contract
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Oct 14, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Just DFA him
ugh
I’d take Fukudome, he’s actually a usuable player, if the Cubs were dumb enough to make that deal straight up. Unlike with Guillen, if the Royals could turn aroudn Fukudome and take part of his salary and turn him into something potentially useful.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Oct 14, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i thought Vernon Wells was your guy...
by Will McDonald on Oct 14, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what I said
was that (I think) going back to the time the contract was signed, it was bad, but not as horrible as everyone thought. Sure, in hindsight it looks much, much worse…
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 14, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What About Throwing
Teahen in the deal? They had some interest in him last year, and his versatility and bat might play better in the NL.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Oct 14, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
two other points
1. much of this depends on how likely it is that the Royals would release Guillen and/or not play him. not playing him is the key, he is a negative player
2. secondly, the royals are trying to contend next season. they are not rebuilding.
by Will McDonald on Oct 14, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's not fair to ask us to "be smart"
in only one area, but then ask us to play along with Dayton’s stupid overall plan
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 14, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like people are saying above
taking on a huge financial risk like Wells or Zito is probably not the answer. But, I’d be willing to listen on some of the smaller deals, like Fukudome, Silva, or Rowand.
Blank
by benfunke on Oct 14, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two years ago Dayton said that the Royals
had enough money to sign both JoGui and Toriiii and keep the young guys down the road. Two years later, the money’s all gone. There are only two explanations, neither one good:
Either Glass cut back the budget due to terrible decisions or Dayton is terrible at managing a budget.
Judging by the 25-man roster management, I’m leaning towards the second option.
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Oct 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Farnsworthless, $9MM
Dayton downright sucks at managing that budget.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Oct 14, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton: I’ve figured out how we can keep Guillen and and Farnsworth, and still get Matt Holliday and Tim Hudson.
Glass: You’d better, because our guys won’t play for free.
Dayton: D’oh!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 14, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nicely done
You know I’m always a fan when you sneak in Simpsons references (at least the first 8 or so seasons- after that, I can’t quote them at all)
by sterlingice on Oct 15, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton : GM :: Homer : Sanitation Commissioner
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Oct 15, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rowand is the only one I could be talked into...
but even then I’d rather just eat next year and start over in 2011
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Oct 14, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cut your losses
see if we can get anybody to eat any slice of his salary, and cut him loose.
StonewallPDS
by StonewallPDS on Oct 14, 2009 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why would we want to trade a guy
one season removed from an epic 21 hr 97 rbi season?
by wildthang on Oct 14, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Let's try a different direction
This would take some balls – but if Moore was willing to trade the right young cheap talent here, assuming it would be to a wealthier team than the Royals, then you insist on said team taking Guillen as a sort of “poison pill” to seal the deal.
Now, which young, cheap player makes the most sense?
Candidates are Butler, Gordon, Soria, Greinke. Greinke is out, well just because. Butler should probably be out too, since his ceiling could be unlimited now. Gordon is out, because that would be selling low. That leaves Soria. I don’t want to rehash my old argument that they should either try him in the rotation, let’s just agree that a closer on this team, at this time, should NOT be a big priority.
Now for a trading partner. There are rumors that Boston may be getting rid of Papelbon, thus would need a closer. They fit the bill as a rich team, and they have the prospects we desperately need. Not sure how many good prospects we could get back, but I’d start with one of their extra shortstops, and maybe add in Buchholz. If that’s not what they want to do, alternatively obtain 2 or 3 top notch prospects to go with the shortstop. That would be fair, and by the time the Royals are ready to contend, Coleman or one of the other recently drafted college arms would probably be the closer, and a mass of prospects would all be maturing together.
This would be the smart thing to do, so don’t look for it to happen. After all, it’s the Royals.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Oct 14, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
The only way you truly can dump Guillen is to throw a Soria in the mix. Dump the dough and maybe you get some tight prospects. I’ll guarantee you as soon as we dump Guillen on somebody, he sets off about 35 dingers, especially if he’s hitting over the Green Monster.
StonewallPDS
by StonewallPDS on Oct 14, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is taking on two players
Who have real injury concerns, were ineffective in 2009 and earn a combined $24m in 2010.
by kcbottom9th on Oct 14, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Due Respect
But throwing Soria, or any young talent in a deal along with Guillen only compounds the problem.
If we are to trade Soria/Butler/Gordon/etc, it needs to be done as a deal thta will return MULTIPLE young to MLB ready prospects that hace the potential to blossom into the next Pujols/Han Ram/Kemp type of player.
Throwing them in with Guillen, for the sake to get rid of Guillen completely removes that type of return from discussions.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Oct 15, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree entirely
I was just pointing out the flaw in throwing in another high contract player to get rid of a another one, even if the throw in (Meche) is good. The only teams who can take on that kind of salary ($24m) in one go have no need for Jose Guillen at all, and probably not much for Meche either.
by kcbottom9th on Oct 15, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
Dayton: Hey Theo! Have I got a deal for you!!
Theo: [feels heart leap with joy] Well, nice to hear from you D – Man!
Dayton: I’ve got a 97 rbi guy, Guillen, for you and willing to part with Meche too. I need a SS, Buchholz, and some prospects.
Theo: Hmm, you know, I think I can do even better! I need to keep our SS and Buchholz, but if you change Guillen to Butler and Meche to Greinke I will give you 2 of our entire minor league teams just brimming full of prospects! Uh, sorry Dayton, while you think about that I’ve got to run to the men’s room real quick, mmmK?
Theo: [hurriedly clicks on line 2] Hey Allard, I’ve got Dayton on the line, will you quickly get on the horn and find two shitty independent league teams in North Dakota or Wyoming we can buy for real cheap? Thanks, get right back to me ok?
Theo: Hey Dayton, sorry about that. So, what do you think?
Dayton: [feels heart leap with joy] Boy, Theo, that’s brilliant! DEAL!!
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 17, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh? what?
First of all I am a long time Red Sox fan, but since I have to live out here in Royals land I also follow the Royals. For you Royals fans, the Sox do not have “extra” shortstops, they have a threesome out there that nobody knows who, what, when one of the three will actually step forward and be a starter. Two of them are injured on a regular basis and none of them are true three tool players. And does anyone in Royals land actually think the Sox are going to give up the number 3 starter and a shortstop for Guillen? I doubt it. Now if you were talking Grinke and Guillen for Paps and Buckholz, that would be interesting. But Guillen is a poison and the Sox are very careful about poison after the whole Manny episode.
by papoonforpresident on Oct 25, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the Royals traded for Yuni
the first thing I thought was “I can’t believe the didn’t at least dump Guillen’s contract.” Now we have to pick up Silva on top of that? No thanks.
by BrRoyal on Oct 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
None to all
I don’t want any other extra garbage just when we’re about to take our spoiled trash out to the dumpster.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Oct 14, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the train of thought, and obviously it has sparked good debate but...

Sponsor of the Will Ebner Physical Therapy Center for Will Ebners' Torn Lateral Meniscus Get Better Quick Fund. Or the SWEPTCWETLMGBQF for short.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Oct 14, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't think there's been much debate
as no one really likes any of these ideas
by Will McDonald on Oct 14, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like i said, i’m willing to listen (figuratively speaking), but you need to have a good reason to take on a contract like Fukudome’s, such as a good chance at him (them) being a contributor in 2011, -12, -13, etc. (and getting rid of Guillen for his last year is only half a good reason).
Blank
by benfunke on Oct 14, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fukudome is better than Guillen
and likely better than whoever the Royals will play at his position in 2010
by Will McDonald on Oct 14, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, and i think he is the type of player who may be worth the risk,
but my real question would be whether Fukudome (or a similar player/contract) would be a better “deal” than whomever the Royals would play at his position in 2010 and beyond? I guess it depends on whether Fukudome’s true talent is closer to Good Fukudome or Bad Fukudome.
Blank
by benfunke on Oct 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or if you trust moore to bring in someone good at all
by Will McDonald on Oct 15, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
Just when this party was getting good, Moore showed up. Who invited that guy?
Blank
by benfunke on Oct 15, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed, wrong word there.
It encouraged many posts to the contrary.
I stand corrected!
Sponsor of the Will Ebner Physical Therapy Center for Will Ebners' Torn Lateral Meniscus Get Better Quick Fund. Or the SWEPTCWETLMGBQF for short.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Oct 15, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The worst are the long term contracts
Wells’ contract is so brutal that anybody who would take that on without something else going on in the deal to more than make up for it (basically multiple young stars whose value under 5+ team controlled years would counter the crushing financial blow) should be committed to an assylum immediately after being fired.
$12.5M, 23M, 21M, 21M, 21M
That’s a franchise killer right there. Getting Wells while giving up no talent at all would be a massive net loss.
Soriano isn’t any better as he’ll still be making 18 million in 2014, his age 38 season.
The shorter deals like Rowand and Silva are more plausible, though they still fit the crazy definition. I could see a way that the Cubs new ownership group goes on a scorched earth bender which would make Fukudome a possibility provided additional talent added (like Teahen or a prospect), but even there you’re relying on the irrationality of others.
A lot of these players are walking evidence to the point that it isn’t the Alex Rodriguez contracts that kill you. It’s either mistaking ordinary players like Wells or Zito for that kind of stud or paying 70% of ARod money for 40% of the on-field value that will kill you.
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
by JM Barten on Oct 14, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
How about Eric Byrnes?
He’d help us defensively, and Hogi could be their power bat on the bench. I’d even pay the difference in their salaries. Byrnes could bounce back (if healthy) and I think he would be VERY popular in KC. An outfield of Bynes, DeJesus, Teahen wouldn’t be too bad, would it (but it would be a long way from great)?
by Dadunca on Oct 14, 2009 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm misremembering
but I think there might have been talk of just cutting him loose.
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that, too.
Wouldn’t we still want them to take Guillen though? Just to help us out?
by Dadunca on Oct 14, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you say "release him"
He’s got to get paid, right? So how could he ever be just released?
by Gus Zernial on Oct 14, 2009 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He'd be gone
and the roster spot could be used for a better player, say, one who is around replacement level.
And then the Royals wouldn’t have to worry about taking on another albatross.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 14, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pass on all
there is no way in hell i take any of those players. you’re just lengthening your problem. i would rather take the medicine and start with a clean slate after next year.
i think the best option is to have him DH, hope he discovers the fountain of youth/contract season, and flip him at the deadline.
the only way it’s going to work in this market is to go young, and we’ve had too many instances of taking on trash that doesn’t produce. that has to stop for the most part.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Oct 14, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Going young doesn't work.
We’ve been burned too many times by Joe Vitiello, Felix Martinez, Carlos Febles, etc.
by jbrocato on Oct 15, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my take...
I would trade Hoagie for Fukudome or Rowand straight up in a New York minute, but the Cubs/Giants would have to be pretty frickin’ stupid to make that deal. Neither is overpaid as dramatically as Guillen is. Rowand’s bat is subpar, but is still a hell of a lot better than Guillen’s, and they make the same annual salary. No way the Giants make that trade.
I would also do Hoagie-for-Matsuzaka, but that will also never happen because I am 99% sure that Dice-K, like Wells, has a no-trade clause.
The rest of those players I wouldn’t come near with a twenty-foot flagpole.
On a side note, I still can’t believe that I once thought that the Royals should sign Carlos Silva…
by DarthYoshi on Oct 15, 2009 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Neither can I.
His WHIP has almost always been terrible, and it’s not because he gives up a lot of walks. It’s because he’s consistently been under 4 Ks per 9, and gives up on average 10-12 hits per nine. Putting Silva on this team would be like putting BAD Luke Hochevar out there for 30 starts.
by AxDxMx on Oct 15, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cut your losses
Guillén is a sunk cost, a bad investment. Don’t throw good money after bad by trading him for a mediocre player with several more years of a bad contract. See if you can get some other badly-run team to pick up his contract for a couple of million, flashing his 97 RBIs from two years ago. If not, DFA him. End of story.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
by Juancho on Oct 15, 2009 4:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like a Jose Guillen straight up trade for Felix Jose.
by KCR5 on Oct 15, 2009 4:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs outfield...
is a who’s who of awful contracts.
by djk royal on Oct 15, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At the start of the season, there were Cubs fans who argued that Soriano was the best LF in baseball. They could not be dissuaded. Maybe it was a bad knee, but he managed to squash that notion with a season of entertaining defense and streaky hacking at the plate.
by Salty on Oct 16, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BEST IDEA EVAR!!!
Just get Guillen back on the JUICE!! When he tests positive who cares? His numbers will go up next year and if he doesn’t get caught he plays on, otherwise his career is likely over anyways. Might as well take one last shot!!
by AxDxMx on Oct 15, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I like your style
Thinking outside the box, and all that.
StonewallPDS
by StonewallPDS on Oct 15, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I chose this one!!! I like this one
Sponsor of the Will Ebner Physical Therapy Center for Will Ebners' Torn Lateral Meniscus Get Better Quick Fund. Or the SWEPTCWETLMGBQF for short.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Oct 15, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also, if he gets busted
and suspended, it’s without pay
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 16, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB is just trying to encourage PEDs!!!!
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Oct 17, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the problem with many of the options
is that the players mentioned are all from large market teams with bigger pockets. They don’t have as much of a need to shed salary, so the desire to make a trade wouldn’t be as strong.
The only way I’d touch some of the guys like Gary Matthews Jr or Silva would be an Odalis Perez type trade — we’ll give you Guillen and take on longer contract + prospects. Even then though, you’re essentially paying 4-5 Mil a piece to get 2 prospects, which isn’t that great of a deal.
I’d be willing to trade for Dice-K, and possibly Rowand, and Fukudome, but that probably means that the other teams wouldn’t without the Royals throwing in prospects.
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Oct 15, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll just go ahead and plow into this train wreck
and agree that these are all terrible ideas. I don’t buy into the “Well it’s not YOUR money so why should it bother you” argument. Trading one terrible year of a contract for several moderately bad years of an even more expensive one leaves the team financially hamstrung and unable to sign our own talent to long-term deals. My favorite strategy re: Josey is to hope for the contract-push production early in 2010 and then trade him for bale of hay and start working on BB’s extension. Plus it’s always nice to have a small stash of money on hand to sign bargain FAs (replacement type guys) to shore up the inevitable glaring weaknesses that constantly plague the Royals.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Oct 15, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My take on it is that we've already suffered through two-thirds of one of the worst KC signings ever, don't extend the misery.
Suck it up on the last 12 Mil and be done with it going into 2011. Hope for the best at DH against lefties and say bye-bye a year from now.
by Steve Hovley on Oct 15, 2009 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fuck 2010........Period
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Oct 15, 2009 11:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you didn't know this, Phil
but there’s a process in place to take care of all of this
Blank
by benfunke on Oct 16, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DFA Or Trade
The entire 40-man and bring up the Chukars en masse; that will buy some time for the process to work its magic. Glass would love that payroll, too.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Oct 17, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the revenue sharing money in his pocket, he'd automatically turn a profit.
He wouldn’t even need fans to show up. I think we’ve figured out the master plan.
by AxDxMx on Oct 17, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, It's Not
Hard to be a successful MLB owner, depending on what your definition of successful is.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Oct 17, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering that would probably be a below replacement level team
We could have 120+ losses on our hands. They’ll be record setters!!
by AxDxMx on Oct 17, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How trading for Pierre
It is only 6.5M more and he can actually play defense.
Juan Pierre of
5 years/$44M (2007-11)
* 5 years/$44M (2007-11)
o signed by LA Dodgers as a free agent 11/06
o 07:$7.5M, 08:$8M, 09:$10M, 10:$10M, 11:$8.5M
o contract includes limited no-trade protection
* 1 year/$5.75M (2006)
o re-signed 1/06, avoided arbitration ($6.5M-$5M)
* 4 years/$7.5M (2002-05)
o $0.4M signing bonus ($0.2M in 2002, $0.2M in 2003)
o 02:$0.5M, 03:$0.9M, 04:$2.3M, 05:$3.4M ($3.7M with bonuses)
o may earn up to an additional $5.25M in bonuses
* agent: Mark Pieper, SFX
* ML service: 8.056
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Oct 16, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
only in LF is his defense good
and Dayton would probably want t tear up that contract and extend him
:-|
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 16, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct and no Seattle or Atlanta history.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Oct 16, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plausable
The most plausable trade scenario would be for Vernon Wells.
The Jays probably want out of that contract as badly as the Royals want out of Guillen.
I think the Jays would want a larger return, not just salary relief.
Perhaps a prospect.
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
by Peterman700 on Oct 19, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Royals do not want Jose Guillen part 2 for the next 99 years.
Nobody does. They don’t get out of that contract without eating at least half of what is left.
by AxDxMx on Oct 19, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the jays won't ask for anything back
no one would
except Dayton Moore, maybe, and the geniuses out there who opposed shopping GUillen last offseason because “we don’t get anything back for him.”
(Ahem)
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 20, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait for this trade to be announced at the winter meetings
DMGM: So (new Toronto GM), I was about to offer JP Ricciardi quite the deal when he was fired. I was just waiting for the offseason. I was going to see if we could get Vernon Wells for some minor league prospects, and all you have to do is pick up $2M per year of Wells’s contract.
new Toronto GM: I’m listening.
DMGM: I was thinking a package of Moustakas or Hosmer, Montgomery or Melville, and Kila and Bianchi since our SS problem was solved with Yuni.
new Tor GM: …. (stunned silence)
DMGM: Well, if that’s not enough I could throw in Luke Hochevar as well.
new Tor GM, fully realizing the commanding position he has: We want Butler instead of Hochevar.
DMGM: You drive a hard bargain sir. But that’s a done deal!
by AxDxMx on Oct 20, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just getting in on the thread so here goes
Picking up Vernon Wells would sink the Royals in a worse hole than they are in right now. How on earth could KC afford $20+?
Let’s face it – I don’t think any GM is crazy enough to buy Guillen with his overinflated contract and declining skills. KC would improve their team by letting him go so he wouldn’t have to play. 2010 will be a major test of Dayton Moore’s courage as a GM. Admitting mistakes on Jacobs and Guillen will help the team by getting them off the roster. Not offering arbitration to all of the potentials including Teahen would be a bold move that would help the Royals. If Teahen could be dealt, so much the better but I don’t think Dayton will do it. It’s not the popular move.
by daveyork on Oct 23, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brewers fan here. Would you guys be interested in taking Jeff Suppan for Guillen? Both make about the same amount of money, have one year left on their contracts and are reviled in their respective cities. What would you think about a Jeff Suppan and Corey Hart for Jose Guillen and Brian Bannister trade?
by RoCoCo on Oct 30, 2009 4:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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