It’s hard to see Jacobs returning. He made $3.275 million but is batting just .226 with 18 homers and 60 RBIs (and 131 strikeouts) in 126 games. That salary also makes him difficult to trade, which positions him as a prime nontender candidate.
Similarly, there’s little chance of Buck ($2.9 million) and Olivo each returning. Cutting both would save $5.6 million but also create the need for a veteran catcher to team with rookie Brayan Peña....
Add it up. That’s $50 million for guaranteed deals, $13 million for arbitration cases and $4 million for pre-arbitration players. That totals $67 million, and the Royals still need a catcher and haven’t added anyone. Keep Olivo or Buck, and the projected payroll already tops its allotted $70 million.
about 1 month ago
RoyalsRetro
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Comments
Scariest part of the article
“Club officials also realize — or should realize — that it’s delusional to attribute this season’s many shortcomings solely to the disabled list.”
Unless I'm wrong...
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by Top Ramen on Oct 2, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like that line too...
I think Bob is picking up some of the same vibes that most of have noticed too.
I didn’t like the fact that DM seemed to think part of our problems on defense comes from “our inability to throw stikes.” Huh? Who knew that lack of consistently throwing strikes to opposing batters affects our collective ability to catch and throw?
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Oct 2, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuni/Bert Keystone FTW!
Callaspo once seemed a likely trade pawn, but the Royals are increasingly impressed that he’s maintained his production through the full season and believe he’s become a steadier second baseman since paired with Betancourt as a regular middle-infield partner.
by swing and a miss on Oct 2, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In other words,
“Callaspo doesn’t look nearly as crappy when he stands next to Betancourt.”
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Oct 2, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
my thoughts exactly
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Oct 2, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what do we do with Bert?
I think he should be a part of our future… however, Aviles will be fighting for that job next year as well… Can Aviles play 3B?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Oct 2, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, if he can play 3B, yeah
but I wouldn’t pay him over Gordon.
Again, if they need to move Bert, put him in LF if they trade DDJ. If he really has the arm for 3B, try him in RF.
He he doesn’t have the range for the OF, put him at 1B before moving Gordon there.
Or keep him at 2B until you can trade him.
He’s a good hitter.
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by devil_fingers on Oct 2, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how's his hitting stack up at 3b/lf?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 2, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not everyone buys Tango's positional adjustments
but I do. If so, then his hitting stacks up the same at 3B as it does at 2B.
Without running a “marcel” on his hitting, assuming he can play average defense in LF/RF, his hitting this year would be good enough to be about average or slightly above as a player in LF/RF, but that’s a big assumption. That’s about what he is at 2B.
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by devil_fingers on Oct 2, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3b hit about as well as 2b?
whod’a thunk it
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 2, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not that they hit the same
without looking, I’d guess that 3b hit better than 2B. It’s just that it’s the same general talent pool overall (including defense). or something…
I can’t find the stuff I originally read on it, but here’s one piece by Cameron that’s pretty good.
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by devil_fingers on Oct 2, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Soren put it best
You can live with Alberto at second if you put a good team around him. I’d keep him at second, but I’d keep an eye out for an improvement if one becomes available, with him moving into a super-utility role if we can upgrade the position.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Oct 3, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a league average player anyway
the Royals aren’t in a positoin to be putting those kinds of guys on the bench. NOt even the Yankees can do that, no matter how much Steve Goldman thinks they should.
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by devil_fingers on Oct 3, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Jacobs...
Good riddance?
I hope so.
by Royal from Queens on Oct 2, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Non-tender
Jacobs, Buck, and decline Olivo, that’s about $8-10 million right there…
by Royal from Queens on Oct 2, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BUT WE HAVE NO CATCHING DEPTH!!!!
-Sam Mellinger
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Oct 2, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with Jacobs and Buck
Though I do still hold out hope that Buck would be worth something in a trade. He would be a solid backup catcher on many clubs. I think they have to pick up Olivo’s option – there is just not much out there in the way of catchers in free agency. I realize he isn’t that great, but there isn’t much better in free agency.
by Valcour on Oct 2, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Olivo's full time position should be DH
Sure it’s not a great place, but he’s the worst catcher in the league.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Oct 2, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might be even worse than Jacobs as a DH.
I have him projected as a <.320 wOBA hitter.
That might be okay if he could play SS.
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by devil_fingers on Oct 2, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of guys out there would be a "solid backup catcher"
There’s no reason to trade anything for one.
Organizations don’t trade for parts that they can essentially acquire at replacement level for free…oh, uh, never mind.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 2, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ouch.... hehe
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by 306008 on Oct 2, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
There is usually a decent guy to take a flyer on in the Rule 5.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Oct 3, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need any half-measures next year
We should be in full rebuild mode, so there’s no reason to keep a catcher who isn’t a star.
by awolfson on Oct 2, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean like this year?
and last year?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 2, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be opposed to bringing either Buck or Olivo back...
…to pair up with B. Pena, but bringing both back would be a terrible move. Both Olivo and Buck improved significantly this year offensively, with almost identical stats (.249/.292/.492 for Olivo, .242/.294/.484 for Buck), which just further proves how inanely redundant those guys are on a 25-man roster. Bring only one of them back, and non-tender Jacobs.
by DarthYoshi on Oct 2, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thoughts
This certainly paints a bleak picture, and looking at the raw numbers, there is no way we can make this team competitive. However, I have a couple of thoughts.
Try to trade Hoagy for Milton “jack@#$” Bradley. Here me out: we will not be able to trade Guillen otherwise. We also offer the swap with us picking up Guillen’s salary, and the Cubs paying for Bradley. They do not save money, but they get a player that they can gamble with in the trade (and who knows — he might be able to rake in the NL). We get a player we can either keep or cut after next year that also has a ton of upside (though volatile). He would probably do fine in our media market. He also, even this year, had a solid OBP (in the 360s). If they decide to keep Milton, they can do the MLB version of “cap magic” and spread the Guillen hit over a couple years of budget. Just a thought. I am certainly not wedded to it. I think Bradley would be an upgrade over Guillen, and if we can do it at the same cost, why not?
Teahen needs to go. Cost is too nigh for what he brings, but he might have value to a large market team, especially in the NL where they do so many game substitutions.
DDJ: it might be time for him to go. He does have trade value, he has ended up with a decent year, and he plays at one of the few positions where we have close, if not fully ready, major league talent (Lubanski and Parraz). Trade him, and let one of the new guys make 400K at that spot (in anticipation of a 2011 run — you cannot have all your new guys come up.
Let Mitch play center, or spend the $$$ from DDJ on a rental CF guy.
My personal opinion: cut everywhere, bring up young guys, but then spend whatever money you can on the best DH power bat. Keep our infield (+ Aviles), and tinker with the OF while trying to spend nothing. Use the lefties from AAA to fill bullpen spots. Go with our 5 RHP rotation (Greinke, Meche, Bannister, Hochevar, Davies). Put Tejeda in the pen for long relief/6th starter, or use him for those 2 inning stretches to Soria in close ones. Then try to find a fireman in the group (Tejeda would actually be best for that role too, but I think Rosa could do it). Let everyone else pitch garbage innings.
Not a great product, but you could live with it.
by bas on Oct 2, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There would be Ryan vs. Milton fun
But that’s not enough. Bradley would not do “fine” in our market, he will do “fine” nowhere—he’s an absolute train wreck. Plus, he has 2 years left on his deal.
I’ve said before, I’ll say again: DDJ, and to a lesser extent Teahen, are good enough to be worth more in KC than they would to other teams, thus, the players we would receive back in a trade would not be a worthwhile value. DDJ should, without question, play LF and leadoff next year. Teahen will make a little too much money, but he’s better than Bloomers in RF to spell Guillen (I still hope against hope for a Guillen/Kila DH platoon with Teahen mostly full-time in RF—it makes too much sense to actually happen).
The FA DH power bat? Well, if somebody worthwhile and cheap comes along, fine. But, since I think Guillen stays, I’d rather have him or Kila (just so we can finally know what, if anything, he can do) DHing.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 2, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't be worthwhile value in 2010, but the Royals don't need to worry about 2010.
the players we would receive back in a trade would not be a worthwhile value
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Oct 3, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that they wouldn't be worthwhile in 2010
I don’t think they get players in exchange for those guys that will ever be worthwhile. I don’t think DDJ or Teahen are going to merit A or even B+ prospects (or, if a B+ prospect, no more than that), and anything less than that isn’t worth while. If incredibly lucky, a trade for DDJ might get back someone who might becomd DDJ later—The players they are now are better than the spare parts that the players we’d get back might become.
Essentially, would you trade DDJ for a player comparable to Jordan Parraz (who we got for Lumsden) or David Lough (a 10th round pick playing pretty well) right now? Or how about a reliever like Aaron Hartsock? Maybe these guys are starting OFs or a shutdown setup guy someday, but more likely backup types and bullpen filler if they make it at all. I wouldn’t make such a trade—their future value still isn’t worth DDJ’s present value, and I don’t think any return we’d get is better than those guys.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 3, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one trades A prospects anymore
unless its for guys like CC Sabathia or Roy Halladay… or Zack Greinke
Sickels had DDJ as a B+ prospect.
It’s about team control. DDJ is a good player. He won’t be around in 2012, which is the earlier the Royals could realistically contend, assuming they fire Dayton Moore and replace him with Theo Epstein, Andrew Friedman, or Andy MacPhail right now.
DDJ’s probably about as good as Nate McClouth — smaller contract, and he’s a bit older and less control, but what did the PIrates get back for McClouth? Even a guy like Gorkys… I read somewhere that somebody saw Gorks as “another Nyker Morgan.” Well, Nyjer Morgan was nearly a 5 WAR player this season at $400,000. Yeah, I’d take that.
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by devil_fingers on Oct 3, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Here’s my thoughts in answer to yours.
No way we should bring in Milton “have you seen my stapler” Bradley. Even if we can trade paying JoGui and the Cubs paying Milt. Reason being, JoGui comes off the books one year sooner and we can use that money to sign players that actually have value. That will be year five and we have to hope that our GM has learned his lessons by then.
We’ll have some young studs coming up and we’ll be able to supplement them with MLB veteran leadership. For example, Duffy and Montgomery with Zack and Meche. They’ll learn from veteran leaders of this team who have been a solid part of the team and transition into solid MLB players.
Teahan stays until the deadline next year when we can flip him for something… Just negotiate a backloaded one year deal with him where the team who trades for him pays 2/3 of the salary. Just make sure to trade him this time.
Mitch can play CF and we’ll resign CoCo to an incentive laden $1 million/year deal for 1 year with team options. That way we give him a shot to regain some for when he comes back in June/July. If he sucks, we cut him out of the future and keep Mitch. I think Mitch will end up being a DDJ type OFer. Not super power but a decent average and solid defense.
DDJ stays. He’s a solid role player to help break in Parraz and Lough who are going to both be solid players. If we can get good value for him, flip him at the deadline.
I agree on the rotation. Keep it where it is and it’ll improve. But if we can lock up a FA pitcher who might be a solid player for us like Meche, do it. None come to mind out there…
I’d also say only throw Soria one inning at a time next year unless we really needed him for an extra out here or there… granted Treyisms don’t allow that mindset.
We can live with it and if everyone stays healthy next year, we’ve got a contender in a weak AL Central.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Oct 2, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we're competing next year with essentially the same team?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 2, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duffy and Montgomery...
…shouldn’t get anything more than a cup of coffee in the bigs next year. Rushing those two guys won’t help in a year when it is doubtful that the Royals will contend. I also think you are probably overestimating the value of Parraz and Lough.
by DarthYoshi on Oct 2, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maier becoming a DDJ-type is optimistic as well
Even if he turned out to be better defensively in LF, his bat will probably be significantly below average, whereas DDJ is closer to average.
by awolfson on Oct 2, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hard to be much better defensively than davey was this year without some carl crawford speed....
although, mitch wouldnt sit a million games
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 2, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We really have to cut one player because of payroll.
That player is Gil Meche, he can’t be traded for much more then his salary, but we need to get rid of him so that we can be flexible with payroll if we happen to play well next year. We really don’t need Bradly I guess, Billy can DH and Kila can come up and play first base. Decline Olivo’s option and offer him and Buck arbitration. If Olivo does not accept we get a sandwich pick. (maybe) Tell him he is going to be the backup, I sure he will leave. If he doesn’t leave, then just cut Buck or Olivo for 1/6 the arbitration after you see who looks better in the spring. Trade DDJ for a major leauge ready starter, trade Teahen to a team desparate for a third baseman. If Aviles/Bianchi are not ready to play in April, then start Yuni/Bloomers/Callaspo there until we can, bring them up, then we can first move Yuni to the bench, and finally move Callaspo to third and Gordon to either first or right depending on where the biggest hole is, Guillen or Kila or random 4th outfielder, and we all know who that will be. The outfield, well, thats why we have 4 4th outfielders, pick out whoever looks best, bring up more as needed.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Oct 3, 2009 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cutting a player does not eliminate their salary
If you cut Meche, you just pay him everything at once.
by BrRoyal on Oct 3, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably why he said trade him and take what you can get as long
as the other team picks up all of his salary.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Oct 3, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has a no-trade clause
And it’s pointless to trade a valuable player for nothing just to get rid of his salary. You have to get something back. Otherwise, you’re just treading water when you hand that money to another FA who’s no more valuable than the first player.
by BrRoyal on Oct 4, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or you could spend the money on multiple free agents who are more valuable
or you could get a prospect back, then spend some of the money of one or more free agents.
Paying players “exactly” what they are worth is treading water. The only orgaizations that can win that way are the Yankees and (perhaps) Boston and La. Naturally, paying market rate looks good compared to what Dayton Moore does most of the time (overpaying below-average-to-utterly-worthless players), but then again, he’s pretty much the worst GM in baseball. We can set our sights right than that.
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by devil_fingers on Oct 5, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he doesn't
The no-trade clause expired yesterday.
Not that I think the Royals should trade Meche, but they now can whether or not Gil wants to leave.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 5, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might not be talented enough
But this article just screams for 2010 to be the year that 2009 should have been: “Let’s see if any of these guys in the high minors who might have some talent can help at all.” Kila instead of Jacobs (first-year league minimum); Rosa/Hughes/Marte? instead of Bale/Colon/Wright (same) or find Ramon Ramirez types of out-of-option guys from other organizations; either Tim Smith or even a hopefully healthy Lubanski as your last outfielder (assuming that the OF is DDJ/Maier/Guillen—I think there’s no chance he’s cut with the payroll inflexibility, but maybe he DH’s with Teahen in right as the regular) or Tug Hulett as your last infielder, with Aviles coming in when he’s really ready (think June/July). Since the FO insists Pena needs another year before being the starter, couple him with a lower-cost underwhelming veteran who makes the need for Pena’s bat get him in the lineup more often—a Josh Bard or Jose Molina type.
This would not be a good team-it would actually be pretty brutal-but it would be an honest team: “Yeah, we may not be good now, but we’re truly doing what’s best for the future, which is not wildly spending any more money on bad players until we can erase the mistakes from the books, finally figure out what talent we truly have, and get a clean start in 2011.” You’d take your lumps finding out once and for all—without pointless trips to Omaha—about Gordon, Hochevar, and Davies (or give Tejeda a chance and finally put Davies in the pen where can just let it loose for an inning or two), and actually not have to question the merits of guys like Kila or Rosa anymore—they either do it or they don’t. I would be quite satisfied if this is what 2010 was all about.
(This is alot like Bas’s post above—sorry, I was writing it as he posted).
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 2, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs














