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Around SBN: Randy Moss A Raven?

This is a first-rate Posnanski post. Here was my comment:

"I’ve been a baseball fan for a l-o-n-g time. I’ve given a lot of thought to the question: "What makes a winner?" There’s no one answer to that question. But of course I’ve known for a long time that HRs and RBIs, even for a great many players on one team during the same season, won’t make a winning team. All you have to do is look at decade’s worth of those Rangers clubs, and even the Tigers during the late 80s and early 90s, to know those stats alone won’t make a winning team. As a KC fan you need look no further than the 2000 team.

But, related to this post and the interview, I’ve never heard anyone articulate as well as Epstein the larger picture behind looking at OBP. Of course I reviled Dusty Baker’s ignorant "base-clogging" line about walks, but I’ve never quite understood how prioritizing OBP, plus OPS (despite the comment from Ryan above) as an organizational philosophy works toward a winning team until I saw the phrase: "not make outs."

What an excellent, succinct, and powerful way of phrasing the goal. Those three words cover a large range of productive baseball activities both inside and outside the batter’s box: HBP, walk, hits (of course), stealing bases well, running well, not getting picked off, and perhaps sacrifice bunts and flys (which are a borderline activity per Epstein’s interview–get out, but maintain high OBP).

Thanks for forwarding this, Joe. This interview should make an appearance at every non-Boston baseball website within the next week. – TL"

over 2 years ago Beer_tiny timlacy 15 comments 0 recs  | 

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dude

you been reading RR with your eyes closed all this time???

by PopeSoria on Oct 3, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

You can always count on...

…someone who opens her/his comment with “dude you been…” to understand the nuances of expression. – TL

by timlacy on Oct 3, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I spoke of...

…“the nuances of expression,” I meant both Theo Epstein and Joe Posnanski.

by timlacy on Oct 4, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sacrifices

are counted in the denominator for OBP — it’s plate appearances in toto.

by 2X2L on Oct 4, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

which, I should add, is how it’s possible to achieve a lower OBP than batting average.

by 2X2L on Oct 4, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

See Midre Cummings’ 1996 batting line or Carl Erskine’s 1955 line — theirs are the highest number of plate appearances I’ve found so far in accomplishing this feat (87 and 76, respectively). Somebody with better tools than I have on hand can probably find the champion at this more quickly than I can.

by 2X2L on Oct 4, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rob Picciolo in 1984

had a BA of .202 and an OBP of .200 in 128 PAs. He just might be #1.

by 2X2L on Oct 4, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alex Sanchez in 1985 had 133 PAs for the Tigers in which he did not walk and was not hit by a pitch. But he had no sacrifices either — in fact he had no sacrifices in his entire major league career (215 PAs). So he failed to better Picciolo.

by 2X2L on Oct 4, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ernie Bowman in 1963

had a BA of .184 and an OBP of .181 in 131 PAs.

Only Picciolo and Bowman ever had more than 120 PAs with no walks and no HBPs with at least one sacrifice fly. Of course it’s possible for players with more PAs to compensate for walks and HBPs with more SFs, but I’m going with Bowman.

by 2X2L on Oct 4, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Craig Robinson’s remarkable 1973 season for the Phillies needs to be mentioned as well. He had 148 plate appearances that year without a walk or a hit by pitch. Like Alex Sanchez he had no sacrifice flies, so his OBP and BA are the same for the year — .226. But unlike Sanchez he could lay down a decent bunt on occasion and had two sacrifice hits.

The Braves acquired him in the offseason and made him their regular shortstop in 1974. He was their starting shortstop, and walked in his only PA, in the game in which Aaron passed Ruth. In fact he walked 30 times that year, more than Rob Picciolo’s, Ernie Bowman’s, and Alex Sanchez’s single season bests — put together.

by 2X2L on Oct 5, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oops, I forgot that sacrifice bunts are not counted in the OBP calculation.

by 2X2L on Oct 4, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, right

RBI are put on the scoreboard, OBA is not. Ergo, RBI > OBA. Duh.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 4, 2009 8:45 PM EDT reply actions  

It's too bad that scoreboard...

…operators are not commanded to put up sacrifices, HBPs, walks, and strikeouts. Or, per Epstein’s quote, how about a comparative-relative number of “outs made” per plate appearances (a %) for everyone on the team. You know, the OMP (outs made percentage, lower being better) versus the current standard of BA. – TL

by timlacy on Oct 4, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

At Tigers games

They do put "sac hits’ on the scoreboard for some odd reason.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 4, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

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