Kansas City's Dayton Moore and Trey Hillman Need to Stop Lecturing, Start Bringing In Better Players

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 3:49 PM EDT in News Comment 250 comments

I don't want this to be personal, but as a fan, I have to say, I didn't start this fight.

Trey Hillman and Dayton Moore have lectured us all season. Their mistakes, we've been repeatedly told, are actually our mistakes. Their failings, we've been repeatedly told, are really just our failings. See, the fans and the media have both a moral and an intellectual shortcoming: we're too impatient and we're too dumb. Since this summer, the Royals have consistently pushed a bizarre social criticism on the public, claiming that Americans are too into instant gratification, which has poisoned our abilities to fully appreciate all the great progress they've made with the Royals.

Most recently, Ken Davidoff at Newsday passed along this:

"It’s challenging because most of the time, our local media and even our fan base, they don’t want to hear about the process. They don’t want to be educated on the process. But it is a process. ...People don’t want to take the time to learn, because we’re not bred that way, culturally. It was an easier sell in the other culture, in Japan (Hillman managed the Nippon Ham Fighters from 2003 through 2007), because they’re very used to processes. And they don’t care how long it takes, as long as you get it set to last."

Hillman hit all the talking points here: fans don't want to learn (he's the man who famously said, "I can't educate" when questioned) and they can't, or won't, because of American culture. He also used the now infamous phrase, "process" to describe the supposedly impossible to understand and appreciate method employed by Dayton Moore and Hillman and everybody else to rebuild the Royals.

We've seen the phrase "instant gratification" from both men. And obviously, anyone walking down the placid, slow-moving, mostly silent and dark, streets of Tokyo would instantly conclude that Americans alone like to have their desires quickly sated.

Despite blogging on baseball for a number of years now, there's actually quite a lot of jock culture that I don't agree with, don't celebrate, don't endorse, and just plain don't believe in. This is, parenthetically, why many of us turned to the internet in the first place, to give voice to different points of view within the sports we love. That being said, if there's one locker room or sports radio code that I do think has merit, it's this: if you haven't done anything, shut up. This snippet of jock code is valuable because we can see its merits across life. It touches on issues of experience and authority, which should be important in evaluating someone's statement. If it's your first day in the office, don't tell your boss about your great new idea, if you've never been a parent, tread lightly on giving your buddy parenting advice, if you're a grad student, it's not your place to stand up at the Department-wide meeting and propose a major curriculum change. And, if you're a rookie, don't walk into the clubhouse and start asserting yourself. Prove it on the field, over time, and earn respect.

Dayton Moore and Trey Hillman are both, essentially, rookies. They are rookies at their current level of employment. This is not to say that they may not be great General Managers and Managers someday, but it is to acknowledge that, at present, they have not, as they say, done anything at their current level. They need to hold the Alex Gordon mirror up to themselves. The unfounded arrogance of team management in the past year has been absolutely stunning, and I'm not the only one to notice it. On and off the record, just about anyone close to the team has remarked about the siege mentality that's taken over, and that mentality is driven by an unwillingness to take criticism or even acknowledge slight mistakes.

Since 2007, the Royals under Dayton Moore are 209-277. Trey Hillman is 140-184 as a manager. After supposedly making long and short-term progress in 2007-8, the Royals took a major step back in 2009, losing 97 games. That's when the story changed. Suddenly, nothing short-term mattered, and it was all about the long-term plan.

Here's the problem: the Royals weren't saying this in 2008 and they weren't saying this in the Spring of 2009. They thought they could win now, only, as it turned out, Dayton Moore's hit rate on Major League acquisitions is somewhere south of the percentage of Victorian novels that have a sex scene. So after they failed we got to hear about how, somehow, we were the ones who don't understand baseball.

Here's what Moore said back in February, to give you just one example:

"We've had a 13-game improvement over the last two years," Moore said. "We expect not only to improve, but to compete within our division. You say the same thing every year, but this year I think it has much more of a meaning when we say that."

Moore said Kansas City needs two things to contend: cohesive starting pitching and the entire team staying healthy.

"I'm very optimistic," said Trey Hillman, who is beginning his second season as the Royals manager. "I think we were able to do some very, very productive things going into this year. I look at where we were at on the same date last year and it's a different roster with different guys that can be difference makers for us both offensively and defensively."

If Dayton and Trey want to play the PR game, if they want to defend themselves, if they want to lecture someone, lecture their bosses. That's really all that should matter to them. Stay employed.

And really, Mr. Moore and Mr. Hillman, spare us your brilliant analysis of American culture. Frankly, you don't know a damn thing about American culture, and you should be happy that you don't. Your careers in baseball have been extremely unique compared to the lives of most Americans, in just about every way. Your level of compensation, your hours, your schedule, your amount of travel, your employment expectations, the way you dress for work, the people you work with, the places you work, the places you vacation, all of these things are extremely unusual.

Wow, Americans are into the short-term. Smashing analysis. I'll have to borrow your copy of Megatrends 1982 to read more about it.

Outside of baseball stuff, here's what I would take your advice regarding: best methods for sleeping on a charter plane, cool places to eat in Georgia or Japan, things I shouldn't ask Jose Guillen, stuff about the Bible. That's it. Because here's the thing you don't seem to understand, just how you don't like us civilians telling you about baseball, we don't especially appreciate being told about the state of American life from guys who generally know more about spitting etiquette.

You know baseball, as you constantly tell us, so stick to baseball.

Moreover, in the case of Royals fans, this argument is simply incorrect. Have you looked at the almanacs recently? The Royals have not been good for decades. There are adults walking around KC that can remember maybe one above .500 Royals team in their lifetime. We're still going to games, we're still getting excited about players, hell, we're still watching baseball, which is not known as a favorite of the short-attention-span set. In a few months, a handful of B-list Royals will show up somewhere in rural Kansas to "meet the public" in an extremely managed fashion, and people will be there. In January, when you have the next Fan Fest, the place will be packed. Furthermore, many Royals fans are among those taxpayers who voted to give your boss more money, which has had a direct impact on your ability to do your jobs (mostly poorly) since you both came in.

You are lecturing the precisely wrong set of people about patience. Patience is not the issue. Competence is the issue.

Perhaps the most amazing element of the Moore/Hillman talking points is the continued implication that their method of rebuilding a baseball team is somehow really really really difficult to understand. I'm going to avoid any jokes about "The Process" and bad OBP players or terrible defenders or idiotic contracts and simply state what it actually is: the Royals are spending heavily in the draft, have hired many new people, and hope to draft many good baseball players who will help them win in years to come. I know that may be absurdly complex, so I'll try to clarifiy it again, after speaking to a wise man, the Royals are trying to build a good team by drafting good pitchers (guys who throw the white ball thing) and hitters (guys who swing the bat).

Really guys, we actually understand what you are doing. We also understand that you've established yourself as the most intellectually close-minded organization in the game, with your proud boasting about not understanding fairly simple defensive stats. That's why, now, this position that we're all too simple and stupid to understand your fancy plan seems so insulting. Pick a side guys, either be embattled visionaries before the chattering mass of idiots or staunch PE teachers battling the eggheads.

And before we go, here's another thing. Draft better. Draft better and make better trades. Actually adhering to your supposed process would be nice. The next time you want to trade away arms for old, expensive, bad players, don't do it. Getting a fat budget and drafting completely predictable players in the early rounds is not exactly brilliance. Its a good strategy, but stop parading your process so much when, and this might hurt, a dude with a Baseball America subscription could have done the same thing. Bring us some late-round guys that emerge. Prove to us how smart you are. The Royal system, which has been overhauled since 2006, is still weak. There have been hits and there have been misses, but three drafts in, there's still a lot of uncertainty.

I guess what I'm saying is, bring us more Joakim Sorias than Kyle Farnsworths. Bring us a single, good all-around position player, just one, before we get the next lecture on "The State of American Culture and Average Expectation Levels Amongst Sports Fans, with a Special Comparative Emphasis on Japan".

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I'm even more sick of these guys than I am of SBNation's sudden inability to distinguish which comments are " new" to me

Also, I would only ask Dayton or Trey about the Bible if I wanted an example of someone who thinks they know what they’re talking about when they don’t.

Come to think of it, that’s exactly the same reason I’d ask either of them about baseball.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

SBN is having issues this week

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You lost me after

“I don’t want this to be personal, but…” I guess all I’m interested in is: did you whup their asses or not?

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Seriously, well said. Thanks for pulling all this together. I feel you’re speaking for me here as well.

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea...

that opening actually kinda sucks, but i’ll keep it for integrity’s sake

Poz opening, “I love Dayton Moore. He’s one of my favorite guys in baseball. No, one of my favorite guys in the world. This winter, I’m sending my children to live with the Moores for a week, so they can learn how to be good people.”

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No criticism implied

just trying to act my assigned role with the expected attention span.

Poz method:
1. Apply butter (and other fats and oils, as appropriate)
2. Fry to a crisp

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And before we go, here’s another thing. Draft better. Draft better and make better trades. Actually adhering to your supposed process would be nice. The next time you want to trade away arms for old, expensive, bad players, don’t do it. Getting a fat budget and drafting completely predictable players in the early rounds is not exactly brilliance. Its a good strategy, but stop parading your process so much when, and this might hurt, a dude with a Baseball America subscription could have done the same thing. The Royal system, which has been overhauled since 2006, is still weak. There have been hits and there have been misses, but three drafts in, there’s still a lot of uncertainty.>

This is what I’ve been saying for the past two years….they’ve drafted more good players, but who wouldnt have with the highest draft budget in the history of the game?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 7, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ahhh...fucking block quotes

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 7, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you may have coined it...

and really, that aspect could work out, but there’s no genius in drafting Moose or Hoz and paying for it

there’s more to building a farm system than 1st round picks and over-slotting guys (Melville) however

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no doubt

there’s also battling the Braves over waiver claims

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We can't even get the Hosmer-esque picks right

Like when we realized, hey, wait a second, this guy can’t see!

by awolfson on Oct 7, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Too bad Baseball America doesn’t employ a full-time eye-doctor

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball America

is about as contemporary as Treyton get when it comes to analysis

you know, looking at faces and butts

basically, they evaluate players the same way Playboy does

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure they just read Baseball America for the articles ;)

by sterlingice on Oct 7, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

extending the comp... is there a Playboy Carribean? of Playboy DR?

…although we do love our white southerners in baseball too

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who does a better job?

I can’t think of anyone. Help me out if you can.

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was meant as a jab at Trey and Dayton's "old school-ness"

not BA, although I see how it might be read that way

my bad, as the kids used to say

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Dayton Moore's hit rate on Major League acquisitions is somewhere south of the percentage of Victorian novels that have a sex scene"

Resident literature buff, thy name is RR ;)

(ok, I know that’s not exactly an observation that requires extensive literary expertise but I had to make the statement)

by sterlingice on Oct 7, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I loved that line

by NotAHippie on Oct 7, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously he never read

Marquis De Sade

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Oct 7, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can French novels be classified as Victorian?

Regardless, there’s at least enough implied sex in Vanity Fair to cover Dayton’s greatest hits.

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

de sade is 18th C.

which had a much more relaxed view towards sexuality

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

De Sade was considered a bit extreme

even in his own time, which is why he was in the Bastille. You want some real Victorian porn, check out My Secret Life by Anonymous (they have a guess at who he really was), and My Life and Loves by Frank Harris. I know My Secret Life is on the Net – it has its own site. It’s really quite filthy.

I learned a new verb from My Secret Life: to gamouche, which means to perform oral sex on a woman. I’m hoping to have an opportunity to use it in a appropriate context within the next several years.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Oct 9, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The worse DM's system looks now

the worse DM and some media people retroactively downgrade the 2006 Royals farm system.

Look at the offenses we have in Burlington and Wilmington. They’re godawful. The Royals have like 4 or 5 guys who play exactly like Joey Gathright in their system.

Seems like hiring a manager with ZERO major league experience in any regard is looking worse and worse every day.

At least Todd “2 hours of sleep a night” Haley and Pioli have a reason to be confident about their abilities. The Chiefs didn’t hire a CFL coach to be their coach expecting him to handle the NFL. The Chiefs didn’t hire a guy who fetched coffee for a former Chiefs GM to be their GM.

Hoping that the Tigers fire Leyland and steal Trey Hillman from the Royals

by BHWick on Oct 7, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

If Dayton took over an "expansion franchise" in 2007

what is it now?

Whatever it is, it’s Allard Baird’s fault, that’s for sure. I knew they shouldn’t have let him retain total control of the minolr leagues through 2008.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

once Baird gets to a player

its almost better just to sever ties than to try to rehabilitate

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That Baird

Sure flamed out in baseball after we canned him.

Wait, he works for who?

by awolfson on Oct 7, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

apparently he only drafted players who got hurt all the time

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Oct 7, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dayton and Trey have almost totally lost the fan base, and certainly the more literate set

Barring utter miracles, it’s all over now (although I’d argue it was clearly all over as early as the Jacobs trade or Farnsworth signing).

If people think this is to negative on Dayton, check out this post from earlier this summer from Lee Warren, a good writer who is so positive and nice he makes Poz look like Jay Marriotti. When you’ve lost Lee, you’re truly out. Warren’s closing paragraph:

Moore should be happy that the fanbase still cares about what is happening with this ballclub. The alternative would be apathy, and frankly, that’s what this team deserves. But we’re still coming out to the ballpark in droves. Moore should be happy that fans are pouring through stats, analyzing trades, and yes, even sometimes questioning his moves. It means we care. We know he does too, but talking down to us isn’t going to help his, or the Royals’, cause.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like Lee Warren

And that is pretty damning.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They haven't lost me

They’ve temporarily alienated me. Hey, I don’t have that many scruples… if they somehow start winning under these clowns, I’ll kiss Dayton’s ring (did he get one in 95? he started with the Braves in 94).

by awolfson on Oct 7, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Fair point

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto.

Just win, baby.

by timlacy on Oct 8, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's an extremely big "if."

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Oct 9, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't quit them

I wouldn’t be able to root for anyone else, and I don’t think I could ever really stop rooting for the Royals.

by NotAHippie on Oct 7, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Well said!

by djk royal on Oct 7, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well said!

They are beyond boneheaded at PR anything. When the whole Rany-Nick Schwarz thing happened, I told my husband if they had any sense they would have used that as an opportunity to address something that a lot of fans were thinking. As in, “Hey, I’m glad you brought this up because I know a lot of our fans have been concerned about all the season-ending injuries to key players this year, so let me tell you what’s really going on.” And then, after you do that, you stick up for your man (and as a manager I can actually understand sticking up for your employee who has been called out in a public way), but when you do it without addressing the concerns first, and in such a heavy-handed jerkwad manner, you just piss everyone off more.

And don’t tell me to “trust the process.” Tell me what your process is and why it is working and what I’m going to have to give up in the meantime until “the process” pans out. I can handle it. Really. I’m all grown up now with a brain and relative emotional stability.

And yeah, ever hear of don’t bit the hand that feeds you, Royals organization? I don’t want to hear about my impatience. I was in the 5th grade the last time we went to the postseason. That was a long-freaking time ago, and I still go to 15 Royals games a year, buy Royals merchandise, watch Royals on tv and listen on radio, even eat the food at the ballpark. Don’t tell me I’m impatient and quit insulting me!

And thank you all for letting me vent!

Also – only 99 days to FanFest! (Maybe I’m not so emotionally stable after all.)

by Gross(est) on Oct 7, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs

Emotional Stability Is

Vastly overrated.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 7, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 8, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do trust...

…the process, especially when it’s well articulated and consistently upheld up and down the organization (e.g. OBP, pitching, defense). – TL

by timlacy on Oct 8, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is?

That presumably is why every Royals affiliate except NWA was at or near the bottom in OBP in their leagues.

That is also why, presumably, the Royals were the worst defensive team in Baseball this year.

And it is also, no doubt, the explanation as to why the Royals issued more walks than any other AL team in 09.

by kcbottom9th on Oct 8, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

You missed my...

…sarcasm. It indeed hasn’t been consistently well articulated and acted out.

by timlacy on Oct 9, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's the problem we have with "The Process"

If it has been well articulated, then there is a complete disconnect between what’s been said and what’s been done. So if Dayton really believes in the process he talks about, he’d do much better to follow it. He has not. I think Alberto Callaspo may be the only player Dayton has brought in that is even around league average in OBP.

by AxDxMx on Oct 8, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

Ditto. That’s what I meant. There’s nothing wrong with a “process,” it’s how it’s carried out.

by timlacy on Oct 9, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a question about arrogance

which I think requires an element of presumption: a claim to privilege, powers, or priority that’s unwarranted. If you act like the prima donna when you’re in the chorus, you’re arrogant. But just as it ain’t braggin’ when you can back it up, is it arrogance if what you’re laying claim to, perhaps implicitly, isn’t claimed presumptively — when it’s really yours by right or custom? Your behavior might still be as annoying to everybody else — privilege exercised poorly or too frequently even in appropriate hands is still a bother, after all. But perhaps it doesn’t amount to arrogance.

So here’s my question: what is it when the unwarranted claim that’s made, implicit or otherwise (e.g. Trey Hillman, Cultural Expert At Large), isn’t the result of presumption but the result of naivete? For example: Alexander Haig, when President Reagan was incapacitated, announced on television that he was “in charge” while displaying the best expressions of competence and composure that he could muster before an expectant nation. But oops, the leadership of the Executive Branch had actually passed to the VP, not to him. Was that genuine arrogance on his part, or was he just embarrassingly misinformed? Another example: kids who are ordinary in every way but who are protected from meeting any difficult challenges can act as if they’re “God’s gift” to Little League baseball, jazz dance, martial arts, or whatever. Are they truly arrogant or just coddled and misguided?

And I ask that because even though Will has used the word “arrogance” from time to time to describe various members of the Royals’ organization, I’m not sure I’m sold on it yet, especially in Hillman’s case. Is the attitude of superiority that they sometimes demonstrate the result of arrogance, or are they simply not perceptive enough to realize that they haven’t earned and aren’t due any trust?

Maybe not much of interesting distinction in the end, but I wondered, and with all this time on my hands — The Bud Selig Memorial Postseason Baseball Event doesn’t hold my interest much — I thought I’d ask.

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

true

what’s worse for a manger/GM: being arrogant or being unbelievably stupid?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I know

I’m basically asking whether his behavior is shameless or embarrassing. Either way, not much of a confidence booster.

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like to think of it as a combination of

ignorance and arrogance. Ignarrogance. A very powerful combo.

by stuckinstl12 on Oct 7, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I like that

Paramo(o)re--did they write their new song about GMDM/Porn 'Stache?

New for 2010: Hayley Williams Hair Day at the K!

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Oct 7, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yummy.

Get treated. Royally.

by Royals Nation on Oct 7, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea... it goes back to the fact that they have to know that really, they have no track record

so we get the defensiveness, we get the excuses, we get the pomposity

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, I think I get it:

Accountability For Royals, Made Easy

1. Everyone in the Royals’ organization will be held accountable.
2. By virtue of membership in the Royals’ organization, all your actions will be perfectly appropriate and entirely correct. We may even invent the principles you were following ex post facto.

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is athe arrogance of ignorance

DM/Trey are perfect examples of the dunning-kruger effect. Those without knowledge vastly overrate their own abilities. This is because because the knowledge necessary to accurately evaluate their own abilities is the same knowledge that is necessary to actually do well (which they lack).

by ddw on Oct 7, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Had to Wikipediate that one:

Illusory superiority (also known as better-than-average effect) is a cognitive bias in which people overestimate the degree to which they possess desirable qualities, relative to others, or underestimate their negative qualities relative to others. It is one of a class of positive illusions. Whereas in optimism bias people overestimate the likelihood of favorable events happening to them, in illusory superiority people have inflated views of their own characteristics.

OK boys and girls, who can recite the three classes of positive illusions?

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I thought the story with Haig was

that with Reagan incapacitated and Bush on a plane from Texas to Washington, Haig told a press conference “I am in control here,” meaning here in Washington. He did so in order to let the Russians know that there was a tough guy with his finger on the button, so don’t get any bright ideas.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Oct 7, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

he wasn’t, constitutionally, technically, or effectively, which was the only reason I mentioned it. Yes, he used the words “in control” and not “in charge”. Sorry.

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Except Bush was traveling from Asia somewhere and back then I guess telecommunications didn’t allow Bush to run the country from Air Force Two?

It was also explained that Haig (and many others of his generation) grew up with the Sec of State next in line in succession, but it was changed in the 1950s or so.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Having read more, I can say that because Reagan wasn’t legally incapacitated — and there is still legal doubt about where that line is appropriately drawn — and because there wasn’t ever any Constitutional transfer of power, Bush wasn’t formally “in control” either.

What it all boils down to is this: as much as Haig was claiming that the government was still operating and still effective even though the President had been shot, he was correct and his message was a very appropriate one at that juncture. Some additional information was conveyed, however, that may or may not have been the result of some form of overweening.

by 2X2L on Oct 8, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One comment:

If you don’t want these guys to lecture, don’t ask questions to generate that type of discussion…

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Oct 7, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I kind of agree

why do we even care what they say? It’s easy for us to say that signing Willie Bloomquist was a horrible move, but what do you want the FO to say, “you’re right, Willie sucks, we were stupid for signing his sorry ass?” In any organization, you have to stick up for your people, no matter how you feel about them.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 7, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure but do you also

have to insult your fanbase?

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

these are things that they are going out of their way to say

we have these quotes in relatively mundane Dutton stories, and completely random interviews with people in New York

its not like they are all coming out of hour 2 of really combative press conferences or anything

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just take it with a grain of salt I guess

actions mean everything words mean nothing. Now, if he singled me out and called me a moron, that’s one thing, but making generalized statements about a population? It shows blatant ignorance, but why take it personally?

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 7, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess because it implies that we have nothing to complain about, if we could just know what they know, but they can't tell us

It’s a weirdly elitist view coming from a couple of guys who probably use words like “proactive” and “paradigm” an awful lot

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't argue the logic

just different approaches to handling the same disgust/disappointment/dis…

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Oct 7, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trey and Dayton are continuously proactive about pushing the paradigm

Even if that means they have to force an envelope or two.

by AxDxMx on Oct 8, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what sorts of questions?

Are you saying we can’t complain about the season?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t know there would be baseball questions.

—Trey Hillman

by BrRoyal on Oct 8, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Alternative Title:

“That’s all I can stands; I can’t stands no more…”

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Oct 7, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Following up on that

Dayton: That little Trey is a real hero.
RoyalFan: What makes him a hero?
Dayton: Well he fell down the well and … can’t get out.
RoyalFan: How does that make him a hero?
Dayton: Well, it’s more than you did!

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Oct 7, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

If only Sting could save us

by Gopherballs on Oct 7, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I rarely comment.

But great write up RR.

by Randa4life on Oct 7, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great post

You know, I think the “Process” is as simple as develop as much of your talent from the minors as you can; accordingly, spend an appropriate amount of money on player development to make that work.

The fanbase gets that – but to cite impatience as a fault of a fanbase that watched this organization COMPLETELY DO THE OPPOSITE OF SAID PROCESS FOR FIFTEEN DAMN YEARS UNDER GLASS is really, really disingenious.

The Royals fanbase is FAR more ravinous than is rational, and I would dare say, more rabid than it would be in another city under similar circumstances. In other words, the fans have stuck with this franchise despite the GROSS INCOMPETENCE of the Glass ownership era.

To expect the fanbase to suddenly think everything is OK (even though they very easily could have the minors on the way to being what it needs to be, in say 3 or 4 more years from now), WITHOUT APOLOGIZING FOR THE SHITTY LEADERSHIP FROM GLASS, well, that’s just plain ignorant.

If Glass simply came out, acknowledged he didn’t have a clue what he was doing for 15 years, but now has embraced a seemingly new direction, AND also told everybody not to expect to win for 7 years until the farm system is COMPLETELY restocked, AND THEN INSTRUCTED MOORE TO SAY AND ACT THE SAME WAY, none of this would be an issue. Hell, he might even be surprised to learn that most Americans are VERY FORGIVING of people who own up to their own incompetence; often, they respond more positively to that than the apoligizer rightfully deserves. Now THERE’S a lecture on American culture for ya.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 7, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

yes

You know, I think the "Process" is as simple as develop as much of your talent from the minors as you can; accordingly, spend an appropriate amount of money on player development to make that work.

it is simple, but if it is this simple, why do you bring in players that block the development of the talent in the minors. Case in point, why bring in Jacobs, who has never been an OBP guy like you profess to want, who blocks Kila who is an OBP guy and probably hits just as many HR’s?

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Oct 7, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Exactly.

Just go cry on Jay Leno and we’ll love you again (apparently).

Lately these guys have really inspired me to want to respond to their “instant gratification” comments with a “You know, I’ve been with this franchise long before you came along and I’ll be here long after you leave.”

They just get my hackles up with this stuff. A few people have commented about not taking these comments by Treyton so personally, and they are absolutely right, which does not mean that I am going to take their advice.

by Gross(est) on Oct 7, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

read Lee Warren's column!

I just feel like recommending him again… see, it’s not just snarky jerks like me, its nice guys, too

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is good. Thanks for the recommendation.

He and RR say it all much better (and less knee-jerky) than me, but they’re pretty much summing up my frustrations.

by Gross(est) on Oct 8, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

highs and lows is part of being a fan

we should embrace all of our emotions, because without them, there’s really no point

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Following A

Good team anywhere near as good as this? I’m serious.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 9, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

applause

Thanks for writing all the things I’m too choked with anger to say.

Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?

by royalsroyalsroyals on Oct 7, 2009 6:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great post

After 2 years of lurking, I finally signed up with SBN just to be able to rec this post.

by KSinDC on Oct 7, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

we need all the DC area posters we can get

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another in DC!

Though I’m probably out for good in May.

by BrRoyal on Oct 8, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I left in June

and am now in Atlanta. And had my car stolen last night.

Fantastic piece, RR.

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on Oct 8, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

quite the welcome to atlanta

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

First our hope, then DCRoyals's car

Seems like all that folks from Atlanta do is steal things from Royals fans.

If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 8, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

I dont get the uproar

This team more than makes up for their lack of talent and skill with grit.

Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures

by averagegatsby on Oct 7, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I know I look silly for asking this, but can anyone tell how to do the irnoy block quotes?

I’ve been wondering how to do that for half the damn year.

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

put the word code inside the < and >

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 10, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holy God thank you.

The irony font is
< easy to use >
.

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Augh no it's not

I couldn’t figure it out after trying to follow the directions here .
I feel like I’m going insane.

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't work in the subject line!

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 10, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It just disappears when I try to type: I like him. gamer

I like him.

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever there's enough irony here for all anyways.

.
I am at peace

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

use then your words

royal pride

by royalsreview on Oct 10, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have to expect them to engage in public relations

They are going to try to put the best face on things and spin things positively. Expecting or even requesting blunt honesty and openness is unrealistic.

But yes, both DM and TH need to do better at the most important parts of their jobs.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Oct 7, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think it's the positive spin tyhat upsets people

we don’t expect them to say “well, yeah, Willie Bloomquist and MIke Jacobs suck, our bad.”

It’s the patronizing, “you guys just don’t understand what we’re doing, if you did you see it’s a great plan” that pisses people off

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 7, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

true dat

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Oct 7, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

I’d be fine with generic sports speak. It also wouldn’t kill them to admit the occasional mistake, even if they didn’t single a player out.

Just be innocuous. I won’t care. I honestly don’t seek out their opinions anyway. However, this is a thing both Moore & Hillman have been doing since midseason. ONce a week someone posts a fanshot with another infuriating quote.

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly right

If there are qualities to these ballplayers that the statheads just don’t appreciate, then tell us why those qualities are important! They’ve trotted out “the Process” defense so much, it has lost all meaning and has become as much a parody as Allard Baird’s “Plan” or Carl Peterson’s “Five Year Super Bowl Plan.” We’re not idiots and we’re not particularly hard to appease, just give us reasons why you think Kyle Farnsworth and Mike Jacobs and Jose Guillen and Yuniesky Betancourt make this organization better, when all sophisticated statistical analysis runs to the contrary.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lateral movement

and i’m not being sarcastic, because that’s what they said. Yuni is a good defender (or has the potential to be one) in their mind(s), therefore the statistics that may or may not say otherwise (they don’t know/care what they say) are not relevant. and that seems to be the biggest problem with Moore’s process.

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he needs to get on the derek jeter conditioning and positioning program

maybe it can work for him

somehow I doubt it will

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think most of their statements are standard PR spin

And there’s nothing wrong with talking about the process. In reality, process is more important than results (see Seattle). But Hillman did go overboard in saying that people don’t think and aren’t smart enough to understand the process. That was a bridge too far.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Oct 8, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This was the first season

I really stopped caring about baseball, or at least the royals. Just sick of this org. Watching the last 3-4 innings of yesterday’s Tigers-Twins game was the first game i’d watched in a few months.

This isn’t a case of a fan hopping off the bandwagon, this is a case of an organization so horrendous they have me to just not really follow baseball all that much.

I guess I just need a winter to recharge.

by wildthang on Oct 7, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah me too

after the trade deadline, i lost all interest. i didn’t even watch Zack starts. i honestly can’t remember the last game I watched. but i guess that’s just part of da’ process ©

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Oct 7, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great stuff RR

Took the words right out of my mouth, in a much more elegant and respectful way than I would have.

Holy Shit!!!...Peterson resigned...Am I dead?...Is This Heaven?

by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Oct 7, 2009 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think a lot of you are overanalyzing the "Process" Quotes...

OK, this is the pragmatist in me speaking, a large part of me, well, all of me gets sick of hearing it just as much as you all do, but it doesn’t offend me like it does some.

When GMDM and even Trey are engaged in a discussion with the media, they aren’t using the media as a conduit to GoBabies!!, Home Run Tony Cogan, devil_fingers, RoyalsReview, or any other blogger. They have us hooked already. They know we aren’t going anywhere. We’ll still hammer away at our keyboards, and buy tickets/hats/jerzeys ad nauseum.

They are addressing Jane & Joe Fan that post on the KCStar forums, about how great JoGui was in ‘08 due to his high RBI count. They are talking to the fan that will say, “Geez, I guess Felix Hernandez deserved the Cy Young because he had more wins than Zack, too bad.” They are talking to the fan that is growing increasingly sick of spending their $$ across the street at the Sports Complex because of, well, I’m not even going there.

Any Sci-Fi geek like myself will remember back to 1999 when the 1st (4th) Star Wars Movie came out. Remember how literally PISSED some cyber nerds were at the cheesiness of a character like Jar-Jar BInks, saying how much George Lucas had lost it by writing such an annoyingly fluffy character? It never bothered me, because I knew Jar Jar was written for THIS generation of kids, to get them hooked into it. He wasn’t written for my generation. He knew that we would sit through the suck that was Jar Jar to get to the good stuff because we were already hooked.

Yes, the “Process” is mind numbingly easy to understand for us. Yes, it is mind numbingly easy for ANYONE to understand, but lets face it, “Process” is a term that (to some) commands respect. It sounds official for lack of a better term.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Oct 7, 2009 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I agree with others who have said that what we’re responding to here is not their PR fluff, which of course we all expect will be part of promoting the team. Instead, this kind of talk appears to be an extremely defensive response to the criticisms of engaged fans who find the organizations’ progress to date — given as much as we can glean from has has been said and what had been done — difficult to reconcile with any definition of eventual success. This, in other words, is the best available testament to what they think of us in particular: too demanding of “immediate satisfaction” to appreciate what they’re doing.

In other words: this is not the The Selling of The Process. This is the response to skepticism about the process.

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

fair point, perhaps...

but at the very least, they could be consistent in their dumbass ass covering

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You do make a fair point. But there's still a problem.

As a former Star Wars FREAK, the prequels really eroded my fandom into little more than owning the original trilogy and never watching it. I even gave away all of my books (though I think my parents still have my Yoda life-size cut-out). The prequels ruined the whole experience for me in that I expected to see good films. Even kid-movies can be good films. But, apparently George Lucas is no longer qualified to make a good film, which might correspond with Dayton and Trey very well. I don’t want my Royals fandom to be destroyed by the ~~Force~~ Process.

Oh, and didn’t even bother to watch the new Indiana Jones because I no longer trust George Lucas to do anything of value.

by BrRoyal on Oct 8, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

um... he's pointing his walkie talkie at you... right now...

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 8, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Don’t piss off the most hardcore members of your base. They’re not as loyal as you think they are.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trade

Niemann, ( Davis ?), Perez, Brignac and ________ , for Soria, DeJesus and _________ .

by Scutch on Oct 7, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I love mad libs!

Niemann, ( Davis ?), Perez, Brignac and boogers , for Soria, DeJesus and toilet.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

Beautifully stated

when I first saw the opening paragraphs, I thought it was something by Mellinger. Ha ha ha! What the hell was I thinking.
Nice job, dude. Never stop tooling on these… tools.

by LaFLamme on Oct 7, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You are lecturing the precisely wrong set of people about patience. Patience is not the issue. Competence is the issue.

So now they’re calling us incompetent, too?!?1

by marbotty on Oct 7, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well mayby only you... smirk...

by grudz96 on Oct 8, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Great piece, Will. Spot on.

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on Oct 7, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Advanced Defense Metrics

Even if one does not understand the mathematics behind the advanced defense statistics, is it that hard to believe that someone could map all plays in a particular area made or not made by various players in a given position?

Through the mapping process, some players will make more plays than others. The rest of it really just lets you compare players and are a matter of degree.

Even if you don’t understand the math, it seems the basis behind it is not rocket science.

Thus, if a player such as Betancourt always lags in plays made, is it that hard to comprehend?

by Tarnished Crown on Oct 7, 2009 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

they'll never know, because they refuse to even look at them

which is the most frustrating thing

by royalsreview on Oct 7, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good post, Will

I agree from the standpoint that they had better realize that some things need to change about their approach…anybody who is/was/will be successful takes failure and learns from it.

I don’t get all hung up on what they say, however, I’m just going to watch what they do. They don’t have to genuflect in front of the public, their actions will tell us all we need to know.

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Oct 7, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t get all hung up on what they say, however, I’m just going to watch what they do. They don’t have to genuflect in front of the public, their actions will tell us all we need to know.

true

as I wrote in the other thread, I wouldn’t care if they both just gave Belichickean non-answers all the time… just spare us the broad pronouncements and excuses

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This blog has disappointed me all year long

I’ve been lurking all summer.

I read a lot of whining. I also read a lot of crazy schemes that only work in mathematical models and simulations.

And to a lot of the posters, this is becoming personal. I question the motives of this place.

This is just another blog.

Enjoy the offseason. I’ll be lurking throughout.

by AngryJesus on Oct 7, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Can you offer any suggestions for improvement?

by 2X2L on Oct 7, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

our motives shold be obvious to all

Like that guy who wrote about the Mets, we’re all gunning for jobs with Royals player development

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was just one of the odd stories of the summer

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hope to have you back at some point...

trust me, its funner for everyone when the team wins

during the early hot streak, it was fun

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

funner.... Will... (shaking my head)....

by grudz96 on Oct 8, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

More Funnerer?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Oct 9, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will say that I can appreciate the time and effort put into the posts

Both from the editors and the viewers.

And it’s nothing against Royals Review in particular.

The problem is that I kinda believe in The Process.

So I want to say that you’re doing a great job I just disagree with most of the content.

Justifications? Not from me.

I’m like a troll with manners.

by AngryJesus on Oct 8, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Moore can win me back

but as David Letterman said, he’s got work to do

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How do you find the time?

by AngryJesus on Oct 8, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

What do you believe in about the process?

I’d love to believe in it, just can’t right now.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 8, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually do believe in his drafting philosophy

Its not the philosophy I would take, but that’s not to say it can’t work.

But I have utterly no confidence he can take that minor league talent and form a good 25 man roster out of it. He has shown absolutely no ability to do this in 3 1/2 years. Instant gratification my ass.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His drafting philosophy is pretty standard, right?

Step 1: take the highest rated player

I’m even beginning to wonder about the drafting philosophy. How many Gordon/ Butler types do the Royals need to draft? The pitchers look solid, I’ll give that. My question when it comes to the draft matches your concern about fitting 25 guys together to make a good MLB roster.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 8, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think Step 1 requires an addendum to say

take the highest rated player with the highest ceiling.

which is almost always a high-schooler and also a higher risk

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

which is also why in 2010

we still won’t really have any draftees around to help the team

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

building a powerhouse for 2020

maybe there was a typo in the final draft of The Process: Baird’s “Plan” Revisited, by Dayton Moore.

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 9, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Treyton?

Is that you? (The name was a dead giveaway).

If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 8, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Wow, your name says it all....

Do you know Timlacey by any chance? Since you didn’t answer 2X2L I will just chalk you up as another “no guts” lurker who can’t back up his opinion with anything other than bitchy remarks. Angry…my god still loves you.

by grudz96 on Oct 8, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

now that seems a little harsh

at least he was being polite. nothing wrong with a half-rant here and there (though i would be interested to hear Angry Jesus’s thoughts on what makes him feel that he can trust Moore’s process).

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Word.

I’ve never made the effort to post comments here – or on any other chat site – before, but this analysis was so pitch-perfect, and so important, that I felt compelled to register with sbnation just to say, great job, Will. (I see I’m not the only one.)

This article, in a nutshell, is why I’m taking a long break from blogging. And why, if and when I return, I’m going to have a lot less tolerance for the shit that Dayton and Trey are selling.

by Rany Jazayerli on Oct 7, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs

Eagerly awaiting your return to activity

and no, your sarcasm-dar shouldn’t be registering anything

give ’em hell, boys

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh oh....RR is getting big time

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 8, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will

You’re so getting banned.

If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 8, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's a good thing Royals FO doesn't want to/isn't allowed to use computers

pen & paper : computers
defense scouting report : UZR

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea... i can't be banned b/c they don't know about me

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

which is a shame.

Moore should be giving you four interviews a year.

Billy Beane does it for AN… although he’s actually an intelligent guy with nothing to hide (other than player issues that GMs shouldn’t talk publicly about)

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 8, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RR was always big time.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad you're at least updating your taglines!

Looking forward to more posts someday!

by Gross(est) on Oct 8, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks Rany, 'preciate it

I know some people think we (or just me) all get off somehow on being negative, but it really just doesn’t work like that. Seeing that quote from Hillman really ruined my day. I felt a little better after writing, but I also kinda felt worse. “Trust the Process” was silly and fun in its own way, and to be honest, I do see Dayton’s point. But the recent turn, with the constant implications that we can’t or won’t be able to ever understand it and appreciate their brilliance… its infuriating.

Of course, I’m just a guy blogging, so I really have nothing at stake. At least, that’s how I should feel.

I marvel at the patience the guys at the Star and the local radio and tv stations must show.

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that bob dutton isn't in the looney bin is a testament to his mental toughness

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I worry about a young guy like Mellinger

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of which, Rany's changed the tag line again

“…where we estimate Zack’s Cy Young chances to be around 98%. Everyone relax.”

“So you’re sayin’ there’s a chance?”

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bravo....

Remember when someone came on here and hung the “negativity” banner on RR. I was at the point then and nothing happen in the remainder of the season to change my way of thinking. Yes, the Royals did surge in September but even the 2006 team did that a little. It is what we do. But for the front office to stand up there and preach to us while the team just barely escapes losing 100 games is inexcusable. I am going with the stupidity angle. No person, whose job depends on putting fans in the seats, can be that arrogant. I know that the Glass family gave our Front Office team a contract extension. What is given can also be taken away just look at Toronto for living proof or Cleveland. So, Dayton should not get too comfortable or arrogant. Because there is nothing more humbling than getting the boot out the door. Moose and Hosey had better not bomb at AA. and if the Royals don’t come out smoking in 2010. Well our “instant gratification” owners may just deem someone expendable and say goodby to the “Process.”

As always, Will… good read…

by grudz96 on Oct 8, 2009 1:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I think there's a difference between day-to-day negativity and being with a bad team

Frankly, when we were in that fun little 18-11 stretch, there was still a giant mess of every time the Royals bullpen would be in a game, it would be “how do we lose today” or “I knew they’d blew it” or “There’s no way they can come back” in silly situations like down 2-1 in the 5th inning.

That kindof daily negativity did get and does get really grating, particularly when we’re not talking about a team that had proven how bad it would be yet. That said, even the most optimistic and heartiest of fans can find it hard to stay positive when a club is playing out the string. Or when there’s a baseball move that flies in the face of all reason.

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

You can thank Farnsworth for that though, even then it wasn't totally unfounded.

there was still a giant mess of every time the Royals bullpen would be in a game, it would be "how do we lose today" or "I knew they’d blew it" or "There’s no way they can come back" in silly situations like down 2-1 in the 5th inning.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 8, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know but I think there's a difference between

“Damn, why’d he bring in Farnsworth”- hell, half the board predicted what was going to happen on Opening Day.

But, we started getting people acting suicidal early in close games after something vaguely bad happened. It was just lunacy and sucks all the life out of threads unnecessarily.

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can definitely see what you're saying.

However, I also get the bad thoughts coming out during Royals games.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 8, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This

Pointing out idiotic decisions and crappy plays in game is fine (and Zeus knows we see enough of them), but some people go over the top. I’m not naming names though.

by kcbottom9th on Oct 8, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think what the front office fails to see

is that most fans have realized that Dayton’s “Process” is really just Baird’s “Plan” + Money.

We’ve been through this before – At least the last guy didn’t talk down to the fans when his plan was failing.

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Oct 8, 2009 1:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

if you remember... he didn't talk at all.

by grudz96 on Oct 8, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would take that

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Woah

Allard was one of the most available, straight-talking GMs of any sport I’ve ever followed. His failing was that he was a willing puppet to the Glasses.

Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?

by royalsroyalsroyals on Oct 8, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's baird's plan + money with worse execution

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 8, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except Baird seemed to at least try to be squeezing the square pegs into round holes

I’m not sure whether that’s a further indictment or indication that he at least realized the problem. He realized he didn’t have the resources so we got weird stuff like guys playing horribly out of position so he could try to bring them all up at once as a cohesive unit.

This just feels more like taking shots in the dark.

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody's playing horribly out of position on this team

Everyone’s well qualified to properly execute their position at this point in their career:

Guillen in the OF
Bloomers in RF
Callaspo at 2B
Brayan Pena at DH
Yuni…well, Yuni anywhere.

If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 8, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, they are all qualified to be executed at their current position ;)

“What do you think about your team’s execution?”
“I’m all for it!”

(John McKay)

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

i'm a pr guy...

and these two are pr idiots.

where's ross gload to explode the process?

by blue bandwagon on Oct 8, 2009 2:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Davidoff doesn't understand The Process either

In his postseason awards column, he picked the Royals as the worst AL front office:

AL "The Office" of the Year: Kansas City. Juan Cruz. Kyle Farnsworth. Mike Jacobs. Good Lord.

I wonder if he felt educated by his conversation with ~~Michael Scott~~ Trey.

by swing and a miss on Oct 8, 2009 3:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Davidoff

apparently wasn’t aware that Hillman’s position was an echo of the Royals party line. He thinks of Hillman as having promise in spite of the Royals’ troubles., perhaps having been acquainted with him during his tenure in the Yankees’ organization. In the column Will cited, he wrote:

I think Hillman will eventually prove himself to be a good big-league manager. But his GM, Dayton Moore, hasn’t helped him with very questionable acquisitions like Jose Guillen, Mike Jacobs and Kyle Farnsworth.

by 2X2L on Oct 8, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm... "The Office" and the Royals

there’s an idea someone should run with…

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 8, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He lost me with citing Cruz as a mistake

obviously Farnsworth made way too much money and the team took a gamble on Jacobs, but Cruz was generally viewed as a good signing at the time. (maybe Davidoff forecasted Cruz’s breakdown from the beginning, but I doubt it)

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cruz is frustrating

One, because of his performance. But two, because when he was signed, Dayton went all up to date and talked about his O-swing rate and stuff and looked past the stick insect build of the guy. He looked past old fashioned scouting for the first time in his career and he got his fingers burned. He’s probably consigned stats back to the garbage can again because of it.

by kcbottom9th on Oct 8, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's interesting

i didn’t realize that DM had stats on us in relation to Cruz. i guess we have a particular player to pull for, if for no other reason that maybe he’ll get back on board w/the stats.

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, even with 20/20 hindsight

The Cruz signing looked absolutely like the right thing to do at the time

Hell, if he pitches well early next season and we trade him for a prospect or two at the deadline, we can definitely recoup some of the losses (2nd round pick and $6M)

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only thing I disliked about the Cruz signing was that we had to give up a draft pick

There was no way you could trash that signing in comparison to Farnsworth, HoRam, etc.

by AxDxMx on Oct 8, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shades of Olbermann

I enjoyed the post. V v nice. Almost expected it to end with a Murrow tribute.

by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on Oct 8, 2009 8:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that was a kickass post

Especially the part about them not knowing shit from shinola about how most people live.

I don’t mind the Colonel Jessups of the world giving me a lecture about being “on the wall”, but Trey/Day—not so much.

StonewallPDS

by StonewallPDS on Oct 8, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nailed it

“You are lecturing the precisely wrong set of people about patience. Patience is not the issue. Competence is the issue.”

Couldn’t have said it better. The Royals haven’t been competitive in years, and still we care. Do any other bottom feeders have the support the Royals have? I don’t think so. GMDM keeps talking about “the process” and I wish he would stick with “the process”. He says one thing, then signs over priced old guys like Farnsworth, brilliant OBP hitters like Jacobs. Mistakes happen, guys don’t pan out. Centerfielders get hurt and miss most of the year. Admit the mistake a move on, don’t blame me for it or tell me it’s not really a mistake because I just don’t know what I’m talking about.

by TampaRoyal on Oct 8, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Linked by Keith Law today

in his chat. http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/28685/mlb-insider-keith-law

RR added to his “List”

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on Oct 8, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Quote from KLaw

“Props to royalsreview.com for their post today on this, by the way. Of course, that author will promptly be added to The List.”

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on Oct 8, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

JoePo also linked to this article

at the end of his Feeling Cranky entry. Pretty soon, this place is going to be too big-time for people like me who follow the Royals from afar.

by jwiscarson on Oct 8, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which probably means

here’s how I can come up with things to say without actually having to watch baseball.

by Salty on Oct 8, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just poked around that thing a bit

and Keith Law is still a blowhard. Its talk radio translated to sports writing.

by Salty on Oct 8, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It will be interesting to see if the FO tries to recover from this year

Or will they just deny anything was wrong but bad luck and injuries and continue their stubborn pursuit of mediocrity.

If they make some fairly obvious choices like not bringing back Jacobs and Olivo, then maybe it means they will have learned something. If they make the harder choices, like not committing to Yuni (JJ Hardy is available) or flat out releasing Guillen then it definitely will show potential. Of course the latter events would be totally shocking given this organizations history of ineptitude.

by jsolo on Oct 8, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

just a quick note,

Nice article, touched on a lot of things i have been thinking. We DO actually understand what they are doing.
I talk to Cubs fans, Red Bird fan, Yankees, whatever and most usually don’t even have a clue who their best prospects are. Who their up and comers are. Royals fans in particular know a lot more about the ins and outs of building a good baseball team than a lot of others. Most know Eric Hosmer, who hasn’t even hit the Mendosa Line in AA, has a brand new pair of prescription glasses. We’ve lived and hung by the threads of AA prospects and "could be plus change-ups. We even know what the “wink” Rule 4 draft is.

But these guys had to give us a lecture, er, chummed the waters. A Process will soon – sorry Tre – a process will be unveiled someday so we can all, well, be even more confused.

by tenacious rdc on Oct 8, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

exactly...

there’s even multiple royals blogs dedicated to the minor league system, which is pretty impressive given the small number of royals blogs in general

people are actually really excited about building through the farm system

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what else are they going to blog about? well, besides the plaza parade

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well you aren't completely up to date

Hosmer actually had laser surgery on his eyes while waiting for his glasses to arrive.

by AxDxMx on Oct 8, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very well written

I was just reading Posnanski, and he linked to this, and I am glad he did. Now as my name might suggest, I am a Cardinal fan and have been pretty spoiled with some level of success.

I have a great deal of respect for Royals fans, though. If there is one trait a Royal fan has, by neccessity, it is patience. What Hillman says might be true for fans of any number of other teams, but this is one criticism you simply cannot make of anyone that calls themselves a Royals fan. For obvious reasons to anyone but Hillman, apparently.

Beyond that, I get irritated with people that spend a little time overseas and think that makes them some type of foreign affairs expert. Trey, being holed up in a Japanese apartment for a few year filling out lineup cards doesn’t make you Henry Kissinger. As I commented on Poz, that makes you more like the 22 year old college grad that has never worked a real job yet, but feels completely comfortable lecturing you about American arrogance, simply because he saw the Eiffel Tower last month.

by Merry CRasmus on Oct 8, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

Trey can see Russia from his house

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Retro, b/t this and the madlibs, you’re cracking me up

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahah

As I commented on Poz, that makes you more like the 22 year old college grad that has never worked a real job yet, but feels completely comfortable lecturing you about American arrogance, simply because he saw the Eiffel Tower last month.

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Epic

This made it to Baseball Think Factory. We’ll know how effective it was in getting to the higher ups when you are met by armed guards the next time you try to visit the K.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Now if only RR could get these accolades for something... well, good

Not that the writing wasn’t good, but for a good situation i.e. the best article encapsulating the feelings of joy of a World Series win

by sterlingice on Oct 8, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tremendous piece, Will.

I don’t know the KC market well, but my first impression on reading the inciting quotation is that it was more about the everyday fan or the sports radio shows (assuming they’re anything like Philly or Cleveland). It is rare that a GM or manager bothers to make a direct criticism at bloggers or national media. Still, the arrogance of double-talk of this crew is mind-boggling.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

its possible, definitely

though I don’t think they make those kinds of distinctions in their minds, just insomuchas, I don’t think they really think a smart fan is possible

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, well, with the teams we root for, how smart could we be?

by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

indeed

by royalsreview on Oct 9, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

Listen to Trey’s interview with Soren Petro. Soren asked some pretty pointed questions that were similar to the ones we’re asking here.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's just fantastic

Go find Rany next time you’re planning on going to the K ‘cause you’re definitely banned.

*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"

by jackie ballgame on Oct 8, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Concerning Japanese culture

Stereotypical as Tryey’s comments are—and I’m certainly not the authority on Japanese culture here, so take this for what it is—there may be some nugget of truth to the fact that Japanese fans are less apt to openly criticize a baseball manager. IF that is true, however, I doubt it speaks to some mystical ability to sustain long-term faith in a team building project. Cue the sage sound of Japanese flute. I would think restraint from criticism of the baseball manager—if that is the case—has more to do with the public’s relationship with authority in general than some Mr. Miagi notion of patience. Is there a Japanese fan in the house who can weigh in here?

It also probably has more to do with the fact that Hillman had a team of good players, relative to the rest of the league, who were able to get to the champtionship series twice in a row. I would think that kind of success breeds patience.

*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"

by jackie ballgame on Oct 8, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Hillman took a bad Japanese club and reformed them, but someone else probably remembers better whether that’s right. But as for the cultural differences I think you’re right —

the nail that sticks up gets hammered down

—Asian proverb

(/mostly tongue-in-cheek)

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 8, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

which is why

his time managing in japan may have uniquely unprepared him for dealing with a combative media environment in the US, as well as less than deferential players

imagine if he’d got the yankee job?

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he'd have been gone in april last year....

billy martin style

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 8, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think impatience with losing/incompetent management is pretty universal.

I’m just an unemployed 22-year-old college grad that’s been abroad a few times, but fans everywhere hate losing, and people everywhere hate having their intelligence insulted. I doubt the Japanese media or fans of the Nippon HamFighters would have taken very well to Hillman telling them they just didn’t understand how to win and that American society is superior in its ability to identify organizational improvement.

Also, where was the Japanese patience in the development of Alex Gordon?

/feigning offense at lacking credibility due to my age

by KCBear on Oct 8, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing,

if anyone is hiring in northern California, I’ll be happy to send you a resume. :)

(I assure you there will be no emoticons in my professional correspondence.)

by KCBear on Oct 8, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say it's pretty obvious that the front office views this season as an aberration

that the Royals were a victim circumstance and horrible luck and through no fault of their own, ended up with 97 losses. Much the same way many people woke up in November 2008 to realize their retirement accounts had dropped almost 50% and felt like they’d been screwed, Treyton would have us believe that this result was unavoidable and just unfortunate. Well, had better decisions been made prior to the crisis, I’m rather certain the crisis could have been at least mitigated, if not avoided completely. Your plan should expect to succeed in the worst case scenario. Any jackass can make a successful plan that includes the words “if everything goes our way.”

by Bart41 on Oct 8, 2009 8:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If everything goes my way

I’ll be president by this time in 2016, make a billion dollars in the stock market, and solve world hunger. Of course, when it doesn’t happen, I’m blaming bad luck and everyone else for not understanding what I was trying to do.

by AxDxMx on Oct 8, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget injuries

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 9, 2009 8:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder

if all they did this year was let buck, jacobs, white-out, wright, teahen and bale walk, brought up kaaihue, rosa, hughes/hayes, parraz/lubanski, moved davies or hochevar to the pen and tejeda to the rotation, signed a legitimate CF or RF, moved Guillen to DH full-time and made Maier a 4th OF and Aviles the SS when he’s ready, what would the general feeling be about DM’s offseason?

i don’t think that would be a particularly great team, but at least it would show the willingness to let go of some mistakes and use cheap, in-house options.

one of the things on my “DM image rehabilitation checklist” was to fire Trey, but that isn’t happening so that’s one strike against. he’s pretty well boxed himself in payroll-wise, so i’m not sure how much he CAN do with the roster other than go cheaper, unless a trade happens, which who knows?

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Oct 8, 2009 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wouldn't be half terrible... but unless Tejeda blows up and Meche has a great season

seems like it would still be a bad team

I really don’t know how many games Aviles has left with this team

by royalsreview on Oct 8, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of the things that will really vex me is if Aviles doesn't get another shot

He was injured in spring training, so nothing that happened this year should reflect his offensive capabilities. He and Kila both deserve a legitimate shot in the majors before another SS/2B or DH/1B is signed for 2010. However, I don’t feel strongly that the FO will actually give either of those 2 a fair shot.

(The one exception to the SS rule is J.J. Hardy. Milwaukee is looking to trade him and he’s at his lowest value ever. Not only has he always previously been good with the bat, his defensive metrics have also always been very strong. It’s the perfect time to get a guy like him even if it means eating the Yuni contract.)

by jsolo on Oct 9, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's no way

Bentancourt is not the SS for at least the next year and a half. Moore has already said that the trade was THE transaction his front office will be judged by, so its the one they had to get it right.

To the front office: You got it really wrong. It won’t get better. So I guess you’re terrible.

Aviles may get a chance to carry St. Willie’s luggage as the 2nd utility infielder when he gets healthy.

If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 9, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i guess there's a chance we could get Aviles at 2B, Bert at 3B and Gordon at 1B

but there’s still the DH problem with Guillen

by royalsreview on Oct 9, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and the SS problem with Yuni

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 9, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guaranteed to be an awful team

But at least its standing pat with a purpose—finding out if the meager pickings at AAA are good enough to help the team long run, and creating no additional horrible financial burdens for 2011, which is really the next chance this team has to improve (not necessarily compete, just improve).

If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."

by CentralChamps2009 on Oct 9, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Blank

by benfunke on Oct 9, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just coined the promotional tagline for next season!

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 9, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

THE 2010 KANSAS CITY ROYALS:

Standing pat – with a purpose!

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Oct 9, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a thousand times rec'd

Duffy*, Montgomery*, and Melville* for Willy Taveras and Paul Janish
*currency of baseball

by McClure 'stache on Oct 9, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I sometimes come over to royalsreview because y'all have a good community, good writers, and

watching the pain and suffering of Royal’s fans makes me feel just a little bit better as a Ranger’s fan. Although, I do have an admiration for y’alls suffering and only wish good things on your orginization.

But what gets me over here more than anything else is to read articles about the insanity of Dayton Moore/Trey Hilman. If these two clowns were in any of the major media markets, it would be a flat out circus. When I read stuff like this, I feel like Im watching a repeat of 1916 Csarist Russia played in a baseball orginization. The condenscending ignorance of it kind of amazes me. Anyways, I really have to wonder how long this FO would last in a place like NY or Boston where this kind of talking down to the media and fans would have been absolutely bashed all over every major sports network.

Wish y’all the best and I do hope that the Royals get back on track. Its been to long since they’ve been to the postseason. The loyalty of the Royals fans deserves so much better than this.

Feliz says his greatest thrill was striking out Boston Red Sox DH David Ortiz, one of his heroes. Yet, when he called to tell his parents, his mother had a request: Strike out New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, too.
"So when I did that," Feliz says, "I told my mom, 'There you go. There's your present. Don't ask me to strike anyone else out, OK?'

by blalock84 on Oct 9, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs

thanks... it really has been crazy

by royalsreview on Oct 9, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I am being redundant

but I joined the parade of recs on this one. I have not even been to the site much lately, as I have become very pessimistic about the future of the team. The arrogance of Glass, Moore and Hillman along with their childlike denial of making any mistakes has worn me down. Your post captures a piece of all of our feelings. Well Done!

Is it safe?

by KHAZAD on Oct 9, 2009 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

Quite a post, and quite a public reception—a comment from Rany, linked by Poz, Law, Neyer, and I’ve lost track of who else. Clearly you have touched a nerve.

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Oct 9, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trey touched the nerve

Will made intelligible the resulting cry of protest.

by 2X2L on Oct 9, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say nick schwartz resigning will be the biggest move of this offseason.

by Bart41 on Oct 9, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

and the epic John Buck non-arb offer

by royalsreview on Oct 10, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good job Will

I see nothing Dayton can really do to improve this team this off season. Can’t get enough money to make any dent. I just hope Hillman and him are gone by the 2010-2011 offseason, but probably 10% chance. I hope he gives me one real reason to follow this team next year, but I have no faith.

Royals – True, Blue, Traditional Losers.

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Oct 10, 2009 12:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't see anything either

I do think there’s a crazy trade always out there, and Dayton does have skills. I guess I could imagine a scenario in which they trade DDJ for two lowly regarded prospects, who both become contributors in the bullpen. Then he slots Teahen into DDJ’s place, gets huge seasons from Soria, Greinke, Gordon, Butler, Meche and 2 of the Davies/Hoch/Banny trio. etc etc

I think it ends in total fantasy world…

by royalsreview on Oct 10, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Trey and Dayton

Here are some examples of succumbing to instant gratification:
1. Leaving your starting pitcher to throw 132 pitches so he can get a shutout even though he’s had health problems all year, eventually resulting in an extensive period of ineffectiveness for said pitcher before he is shut down for the year due to injury.
2. Trading for Mike Jacobs, signing Kyle Farnsworth and Willie Bloomquist to try to contend in weak division while Meche and Greinke are under contract. Never mind that much cheaper AAA players could put up the same level of “production” as these signings without eating up substantial payroll.
3. Trading for Yuniesky Betancourt and his contract because your open day shortstop went down with an injury even though the team is going nowhere.

Fans understand that waiting may be necessary while Dayton’s draftees work their way up the minor league system; fans do not understand plugging holes with old, expensive players who are terrible instead of giving cheap, young, AAA non-Dayton guys who could hardly be any worse a shot.

by swing and a miss on Oct 10, 2009 6:29 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs

4. Bully Rany Jazayerli because you think you can and because you think it will shut people up

never mind that like all your other “brilliant” moves, it blew up in your face and revealed just how insecure, defensive, and clueless to the contemporary world our organization is.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 10, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I fully support the Cortes-for-Betancourt trade

Dumping Cortes is addition by subtraction and Betancourt was a huge upgrade from TPJ.

by jbrocato on Oct 12, 2009 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's why the Royals kicked so much ass after the trade

and why everyone in the industry has hailed the trade as a huge win for the Royals, and why there aren’t any stats that show Yuni to have bombed worse than Angel Berroa ever did.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 12, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll go on a limb and say

Without the Betancourt acquisition, the Royals finish in sole possession of fifth place.

by jbrocato on Oct 13, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Addition by subtraction for Cortes huh? He wasn’t even on the KC team, how does that help?

And Betancourt, really? Adding Betancourt, in what at that point had already become a lost season, agreeing to pick up a significant chunk of his future salary, when you have Mike Aviles who WILL be back next year? We can’t buy a stopgap SS in the offseason til he gets back? Aviles wasn’t terrible in 2009, he was injured. Aviles is at least as good in the field as Yuni and has a much better bat.

But yes, Betancourt was an upgrade from TPJ.

Finally… Hi Dayton!

by AxDxMx on Oct 13, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the whole point of the trade

was that an Aviles return in 2010 was far from certain. My understanding was that there was good reason to believe his injury was career-threatening, thus the need to obtain a new shortstop.

by jbrocato on Oct 13, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He says he'll be back for ST as he is healing quicker than anticipated.

There was some worry that he would be out til midseason next year, but he’s not a pitcher, so he doesn’t really need his arm strength to be all the way back to play or swing a bat.

I don’t want to rehash the Yuni trade, but I’m guessing we could have gotten Yuni for a lot better deal, or someone else completely, like Julio Lugo for free the next week.

by AxDxMx on Oct 13, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not much of a statement.

Could we have lost one more game on the season without Yuni? Sure we could. Especially with Trey making the lineup card. I would rather have stuck it out with Luis Hernandez and taken my chances with a terrible batter with a decent glove who might not be worse than Yuni. At the very least, he was cheap.

by BrRoyal on Oct 13, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This was awesome, thanks

I live in LA, and only have one friend who is a Royals fan. He’s not into Sabermetrics at all (hell, he likes Harold Reynolds) but even he knows that Trey Hillman and GMDM are full of shit.

It’s possible that they know what they are doing, but given that almost every reasonable baseball fan out there, including a whole bunch of smart guys like Will, Rany, Poz, Jeff, etc., doesn’t see it; it probably doesn’t exist.

by vivaelpujols on Oct 11, 2009 2:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS, goddamnit

POO-holes sounds just terrible, and I don’t care what kind of weirdo Caribbean dialect they speak in the Dominican. In the original Catalan, that’s how you say it (it’s one of the top three or four surnames in Catalonia), and in the rest of Spain they’d make an attempt at getting it right and say Poo-YOLS. By the way, in English the translation is Hills.

I feel very strongly about this subject.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Oct 13, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

languages do evolve though....

so theres a good chance the pronunciation has changed in the 400 or whatever years since Catalan originated. My AP Spanish teacher who was from DR pronounced it POO-holes.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 13, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you like

To-MAH-to or To-MAY-to sauce?

The point is. North Americans say one, Brits say another. Neither is wrong. Languages have dialectic differences. Or, for example, there are plenty of mangled French words that are used everyday in English.

It’s not wrong, its just different.

by kcbottom9th on Oct 13, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs