An emerging scenario has Getz replacing Callaspo as the starting second baseman, with veteran Willie Bloomquist available if Getz, a left-handed hitter, struggles against left-handed pitchers.
Fields would become the starting third baseman, with Alex Gordon shifting to first base and Billy Butler drawing increased duty as the designated hitter. A lefty-righty platoon could develop since Fields has a .206 career average against right-handers and Gordon is a .217 career hitter against lefties.
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That totally contradicts the story I posted about sticking with Gordon at 3rd
If this is the case, this offseason could be worse than last year’s.
by AxDxMx on Nov 13, 2009 2:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
According to GMDM they’re all lies.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Nov 13, 2009 2:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, not cool
The only immediately good part of all the shifting would be Gordon at 1st. But there’s no reason Butler can’t become at least average at 1st. Fields better not be the 3rd baseman.
by NotAHippie on Nov 13, 2009 3:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
More "on-the-job" position training by Moore and Hillman...
like the Teahen-to-2b, Bloomquist to RF, and Gload to LF. MLB regular season seems to be the place to teach someone a new position according to our FO. Only an FO that doesn’t truly value defense (just like they value OBP) would put such a plan in place, IMHO.
by Steve Hovley on Nov 13, 2009 5:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?
Which player would be learning a new position “on-the-job” in this scenario?
by kcdc1 on Nov 13, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
Gordon has 32 major league games at first. With, in a tremendously small sample-size, a UZR/150 of 17.2.
Not that putting him there would be a good idea, but it’s a FAR more reasonable transition than suddenly trying Teahen at 2B last year.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 13, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
32 games in his life at a position....
would qualify him in my mind as needing on the job training.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 13, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
How different is 1st base from 3rd? We’re not talking a corner outfielder to middle infielder switch here. He might have a slight learning curve, but I don’t think it’s so much that one offseason/spring training wouldn’t take care of it. The 3rd to 1st switch has been done many more times than what they were trying to do with Teahen.
Of course, the litmus test in Trey’s and Dayton’s eyes will almost certainly be the 3-6-3 double play.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 13, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
teahen played SS almost exclusively in college if i recall....
and thats not THAT much different either….but regardless of what position it is, a new position being learned at the major league level cannot be easy.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 13, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
George Brett is the most famous Royals 1st to 3rd switch
I’m not in favor of Gordon doing it, but I don’t think he’ll have a problem handling it.
by AxDxMx on Nov 13, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, an IFer learning first base is quite easy
It is a much easier position to field than third base. The transition would not be difficult at all. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea though.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Nov 14, 2009 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How different???
A world of difference. Different glove. Different stance. Different skills required on ball that come off the dirt/turf. Different responsibilities. Different throw to 2B. Sure it’s been done before, but how much extra pressure are we now going to put on the player that’s still trying to find himself at the plate. And what does this do to Butler…it changes his entire psyche and how he approaches the game. Blech.
by RaulDuke on Nov 13, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
First base is actually much easier defensively than third
It would be an easy transition. But I don’t think it would be a good idea.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Nov 14, 2009 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's nothing about any of that which inspires confidence.
Get a catcher already. Get a CF. Sign a starting pitcher.
by Dadunca on Nov 13, 2009 8:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll be the first to mention the worst part of this:
Guillen plays the majority of the time in RF.
Now, I know we are stuck with Guillen, because he is more untradeable than anybody in the majors not named Vernon Wells, and because the Royals won’t acknowledge a mistake and release him as a sunk cost, but for chrissakes, if you insist on keeping him, MAKE HIM THE DH.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Nov 13, 2009 9:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ultra-Untradeable
Kyle Farnsworth
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 13, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Guillen is probably going to cost us win even at DH.
Callaspo at least projects (wOBA = 0.333) to give us + wins from the DH spot.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Nov 13, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So at this point...
the only reason to play Jose is to make him “earn” his $12M? Just let him go play with his lions and tigers or whatever down on his Dominican ranch.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 13, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is always the pending free agent status that serves to motivate people
Maybe he’ll have a bounce back in May and June and we can dump him on a contender, pick up most of his salary, and get a prospect in return.
by AxDxMx on Nov 13, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, well I didn't really look at it that way
So it’s ALL worth it then. Thanks, JoGui! Thanks Dayton!
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 13, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This contradicts Rosenthal's report reported on the same day.
I’m going to try not to get in a twist over the possible postion changes quite yet. It seems like a lot of speculation has been thrown around here and in the media. There are too many moving parts in this situation. The offseason just got started and it’s obvious that KC isn’t done yet.
by Tubmin on Nov 13, 2009 9:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Who knows what is going to happen?
So far we’ve got:
Teahen for Getz/Fields-positive move
Decline options on Olivo, Crisp, Yabuta-positive moves
Sign Wilson Betemit to minor-league deal-positive move
Granted, none of these are world-beaters, but let’s everyone just wait to find out what happens before jumping off the cliff.
Callaspo can play DH and OF. Fields will most likely be in AAA. Getz could get sent down to AAA as well and Callaspo could stay at 2B. Based on his record, DM is just as likely to make another Callaspo-Buckner or Bannister-Burgos trade as he is to make Jacobs-Nunez.
So far, the offseason has been good. DM has also come out and admitted that things aren’t working. Ultimately the proof is going to be in the pudding, meaning at some point this team actually has to convert moves into wins, but he seems to be heading back in the right direction.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Nov 13, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The best thing this offseason
Is the admittance that things aren’t working.
by Dadunca on Nov 13, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Does Fields have any options left?
I know the Sox sent him down for a while last year.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 13, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's been optioned to the minors in both '08 and '09
couldn’t find anything if he has any left…
by royalsreview on Nov 13, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I heard that Getz had an option left
But Fields did not.
by NotAHippie on Nov 13, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem here is
that Dutton’s a more credible source than Rosenthal.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Nov 13, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
…but both sources were club officials and it seems as if both were speculating possible scenarios.
I have been upset by several of DM’s moves in the past, but too many people jump on the negative implications of all of these trades a week into the offseason. It’s easy to assume that the domino effect from these early moves will not turn out in the Royals favor, given the team’s futile recent history. But I wouldn’t take any of this specualtion too seriously until Spring Training.
It’s a long offseason, and I think everyone agrees that the Royals aren’t done yet.
by Tubmin on Nov 13, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sick and tired of Yancy Yaysayers polluting this site with their vomitous optimism
I liked the Teahen trade for a day or so, until I saw its further ramifications. Now I’m back in my comfort zone of absolute hopelessness for this ‘organization.’ Getz gives away more offensively than he returns on defense to be a clear upgrade at second. Even if we keep AC I can see no reason to believe he can adequately play the outfield and he’s a lackluster DH, to be generous. Fields and Betemit are the same player: miserable at everything except the occasional home run – a trait that tends to evaporate when players sink into the confines of the K. Moving Gordon to a platoon role would an unforgiveable blunder. Dadunca is right, just get the CF, C and SP already and stop screwing around with lateral moves. Our Gm isn’t clever enough to not butcher those into becoming cascading failures.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Nov 13, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
see above
what ramifications? not saying that you won’t eventually be right, but let’s let it play out first before we assume the worst.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Nov 13, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
too much optimism?
good fucking lord. what rock are you living under?
baseball rules.
by doublestix on Nov 13, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cant ever win....
the day of the teahen trade was the only time ive seen optimism on this site in quite some time…and it was sorta fun…until we all realized what the effects of getz/fields could be
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 13, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we're optimistic by just being fans at this point.
The Royals have spent 20 years trying to drive us away and we hang on because we hope someday we’ll have a winner. That’s optimism to me. And also a little crazy.
by Dadunca on Nov 13, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
My judge lets me count my time following the Royals
as community service. So I check this site 12 times a day. By 2011 I won’t need the ankle monitor.
by Black and Gold on Nov 14, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 15, 2009 4:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I’m half-jokingly saying I’m in such a foul mood from the whole DM Experience that I don’t want anyone giving any benefit of doubt to Dayton. And by the way I live in a cave, not under a rock like some animal.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Nov 13, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon to first is a stupid idea
particularly if it is based on the getting Fields more (or any) time at 3B.
Hope this is just speculation.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 13, 2009 12:33 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I like the idea of Gordon to First
If it comes with a better 3B that Fields, or even Alberto Callaspo moving over there (I don’t know what his UZR/other Defensive Metrics would look like @ 3rd, but just by watching him, his biggest problem @ 2nd is a lack of range, which shouldn’t be nearly as big of a problem @ 3rd).
We’d then get a defensive upgrade @ 1st, a defensive upgrade @ 2nd (assuming Getz IS better than AC @ 2nd), and stay about the same @ Defense @ 3rd, and we’d have Billy Butler focusing exclusively on Hitting. With BB @ DH, it also make Jogui strictly a bench player, assuming (possibly incorrectly) that GMDM is serious when he says he is all about upgrading Defense this offseason, and step #1 to doing that is not playing him in RF.
This scenario also keeps AC’s bat in the linup, which is IMO important to do, unless he is traded for mucho value.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Nov 13, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It also moves Billy to DH, which I dislike
Billy as DH: 676 PAs – .274 .325 .426
Billy as 1B: 797 PAs – .304 .363 .477
by AxDxMx on Nov 13, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, those are actually pretty close to the DH penalty.
Unless Billy is -10 UZR at 1B, he should not be moved to DH
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Nov 13, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ax, those #'s are skewed IMO
since the #’s he accumulated at 1B have been put up later in his career (by enlarge).
If you want to look at silly splits, AG put up better #’s when he has played 1B than 3B
@ 1B
68 PA’s – .286 .338 .460
@ 3B
1282 PA’s – .250 .332 .415
obviously that is a ridiculous sample size, but the sample size of BB’s AB’s @ 1B were ridiculously small heading into this season as well…
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Nov 15, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that was the one problem I had with the splits
I know most of the 1B numbers were from his breakout season. I still think playing the field and being involved in the game contributes to hitting better. So while I think the difference may not be that great with him at DH, I do believe there would be a difference. Is it just a coincidence that he broke out once he finally “owned” 1B this year? I don’t know, but a DH is a guy that basically comes off the bench to pinch hit about 4-5 times a game.
by AxDxMx on Nov 15, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Fields is worse than Gordon at third
He produced 8 errors and a -11.6 UZR/150 in 49 MLB games at third this year. You might be able to move Callaspo to third and Gordon to first when the defense and platoon splits end up working in our favor, but Fields is not the answer there.
Fields should primarily be used in platoon situations or to fill in for injured corner players.
by 9il on Nov 13, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, lets consider what was said.
1. Butler to DH is not horrible, he is a below average fielding first baseman and would fill our DH gaping wound and actually add value for the Royals.
2. Getz/Bloomquist platoon at second base upgrades our defence and sets up a 9-1 combination of Getz and Crisp.
3. Sets up platoon at third with Gordan and Fields each gaining value from it.
4. Sets up a platoon at 1B with Butler getting most of the time there.
things not mentioned
4. Could mean a shift to right field for Callaspo and the release of Guillen.
5. Could mean that we non-tender Jacobs, and move Guillen to DH.
6. Bench is then catcher, Bloomquist, Fields, (Maier or Aviles or Yuni) with Getz and Gordon on the bench vs. lefties.
7. Hopefully, the FO can realize Aviles should play at short and release Yuni.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Nov 13, 2009 12:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i like #4 (second one) about
Callaspo (or anyone, for that matter) going to RF instead of Guillen. Of course Callaspo is not going to be a quality defender in RF, but he’s sure to be an upgrade over Guillen (and that would removed Guillen’s bat from the lineup. Getz and Callaspo in the lineup (and assumedly Fields at DH) is worth it to get them more AB’s and find their true value as hitters, even if it means temporarily playing Callaspo’s sub-standard (probably) defense in right.
Blank
by benfunke on Nov 13, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bench?
He’s a bit rusty, I imagine, but he’ll probably still do better than John Buck.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 13, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know the old joke
“How do you think Willie Mays would hit if he played today?”
“Oh, he’d probably hit about .280 with fifteen home runs.”
“You think he’d do that badly?”
“Well, he is seventy years old.”
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
by Juancho on Nov 15, 2009 2:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The emerging scenario
sounds like a disaster to me. None of these guys are any good with the exception of Butler and Callaspo. Why don’t we, uh, have them be the first and second basemen?
And, of course, someone needs to frame Guillén for child porn or something so that he goes to jail and we don’t have to pay him. Any of you IT geniuses know how to download that stuff onto his computer?
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
by Juancho on Nov 13, 2009 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If he's anything like the front office
he doesn’t even know what a computer is
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Nov 13, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s been a possibility raised that Gordon might move from third base to first with Butler again assuming the designated hitter role.
“It’s not something we’ve discussed. We’ve got a lot of potential scenarios and we have to decide where those guys are going to play,” Moore said. “It’s a natural assumption probably because Alex didn’t move that very well off the hip but I’m quite confident that Alex is going to be an above-average defensive player wherever he ends up playing. But right now he’s our third baseman.”
baseball rules.
by doublestix on Nov 13, 2009 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
he is the missing link to our ultimate success...
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Nov 13, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, That Would
Be me.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 15, 2009 4:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have thought of you as the Missing Link
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Nov 16, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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