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Royals are in the running for the Bradley sweeptakes due to having Jose Guillen on the team. How much money would the Cubs need to throw in and take Guillen for Dayton to bite? Will an additional 3 million in cash considerations get it done?

2 months ago Tiny BabyBlues 32 comments 1 recs  | 

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No, no, no

it would have to cost us < $5 million, so when he flames out like the douche he is, we can just cut him.

So we give them Guillen, they give us Bradley and $4 million, and that’s the bare minimum. That adds $ 5 million to our total commitment. If we put that $ towards this year’s budget in lieu of an additional FA signing, then if Bradley implodes next year we’ve essentially got him for free.

"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Nov 15, 2009 2:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That would be bad news.

For me, they would need to take Farnsworth and Betancourt as well. And kick in a couple mil (5).

Realistically, you cannot do this deal without losing 2 bad contracts (Guillen and Farns/Betancourt/Cruz) and getting something good and cheap in return (I don’t know what they could offer though). We are talking like a 10 million difference. That should be enough to kill the deal.

by Dadunca on Nov 15, 2009 2:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

good to know that we can safely move Butler to DH so we can have

a 3-6-3 master at 1st. Ross Gload is available.

Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore

by BHWick on Nov 15, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd be OK

With us giving them JoGui & Farnsworth (Or Yunieski, but I think Farnsworth is more likely) and them giving us Bradley, & a few million bux and if GMDM can coax them out of a mid level prospect while he is at it, then why not?

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Nov 15, 2009 4:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

f that

i’d trade Guillen straight up for him. but it won’t happen because that’s still in our favor.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Nov 15, 2009 4:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe,

But that trade would still mess with our long term plans. We need that money off the books for 2011. That will probably be our best shot at being competitive:

1. Zack, Bam, Soria and Alex will all be hitting their prime.
2. Some of Moore’s prospects may be here and contributing.
3. Gil on a contract year.

We’ll need that 12 mil to fill a hole somewhere (Short, CF, SP). What we won’t need is Milton Bradley getting hurt and threatening our announcers.

by Dadunca on Nov 15, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you are correct...

we dont need milt threatening our announcers…we need him disabling ryans vocal cords

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 16, 2009 4:50 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

agreed

Expensive good players(when healthy) are always better than expensive crappy players. Trade for bradley, stitch up his mouth, done.

Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo

by playingwithfire on Nov 15, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

totally agree

that’s be f—ing over the Cubs. Do it do it do it, Dayton

Bradly would play well enough and often enough to, at worst, pay off the contract in wins, and maybe even be on good enough behavior to have some minimal trade value.

Jose Guillen is DFA material if they can’t move him — Even if he manages replacement level ,that $12 M down the tubes… and even if they DH him, he’ll still ikely be below replacment level.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

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by devil_fingers on Nov 15, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

bradley at DH for 9 millionish

is a good deal….i think

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 16, 2009 4:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he'd need to be 1 WAR the next two years to be worth it...

dude could play 50 games and be one of the better DM acquisitions in his tenure

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 16, 2009 4:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley is significantly better than Guillen and it's not even close

The issue here is being on the hook for 2 years $20 million instead of 1 year $12 million. Would the Royals be interested in saving $2 million this year at the expense of $10 million next year? Probably not unless the Cubs kick in some cash.

But make no mistake – there really is no comparison between the two.

Guillen career line: .322/.442/.764
Bradley career line: .371/.450/..821

More importantly, the last two years:

Guillen – 2008: 0.2 WAR, UZR/150: -5.6
                 2009: -2.0 WAR, UZR/150: -48.4

Bradley – 2008: 4.5 WAR, UZR/150: 14.6
                 2009: 1.0 WAR, UZR/150: -6.9

If the Cubs kick in a few million or more for next year this trade should be done in a heartbeat.

by jsolo on Nov 15, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The real question is

whether the money we’d have to pay Bradley could be spent better elsewhere. The answer to that has to be yes.

Bradley over Guillen is a given, but Bradley over whoever we could sign in 2011? That’s a different issue altogether.

by Dadunca on Nov 15, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What makes it interesting is that there is basically no other to rid the team of Guillen

The answer is that you could definitely find a cheaper player who might put up better numbers in 2011, but that’s definitely not a possiblity in 2010. This is because the Royals probably won’t release him and a trade like this is about the only possibility of him being gone.

Any realistic comparison has to involve a Guillen trade. If you can get rid of Guillen and improve your offense and defense without spending more money – wouldn’t you do that? Besides, last year may be understating Bradley’s value a bit. He had an amazing year in 2008 and he’s still only 31.

I think the real issue is basically what that Bradley would be more of a win now move and could interfere with the plan for 2011. On the other hand, in 2011 Bradley may be a better option than any young OF the Royals will have ready. He’d be more expensive, but if the Cubs kicking in cash…I think I’d probably take a chance. He’s always been a great on base guy and he isn’t terrible defensively.

by jsolo on Nov 15, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I still think it's a bad move.

But you make some very good points. Regarding your last point, Bradley will probably be better than Parrazz, Lough, or Lubanski in 2011, but playing them allows us to get something we need.

However, we’ll still need a C, CF, SS and pitching with Bradley. Someone else at least mitigates one of those deficiencies.

I saw below that this is all speculation, though.

by Dadunca on Nov 15, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see nothing..

not ONE single word that implies Chicago has made a bit of contact with Dayton Moore about Bradley.

I read and re-read the clip. Then clicked through to CNNsi and read the full article. Aside from the CNNsi writer (Heyman?) include Guillen as a “bad contract”…there is nothing whatsoever that implies KC has had a shred of contact over this.

by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Nov 15, 2009 6:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

It’s a stretch to say that this article implies the Cubs are “actively courting Dayton.” The article just mentions similar albatross contracts. While it’s reasonable to assume the Royals are on the Cubs radar for the trade, the title of the post is misleading.

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on Nov 15, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very misleading

It got my hopes up, then I read Mr Powers’s post, read the actual article, and had my hopes dashed.

by AxDxMx on Nov 16, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully he won't

Getting rid of Guillen AND Ryan?

This might be the best offseason yet.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Nov 15, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL.

That was awesome

by Dadunca on Nov 15, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Forget getting rid of Ryan

Get rid of Frank White. Its just painful to listen to that guy. His “Sonic Slam Inning” pitch was just down right awful, an auditory abortion. “And if the Royals hit a grand slam out of the park, John Doe of Overland Park will win…” Turn it off!!! I can’t take it any more!

by Wildcat2180 on Nov 16, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

According to Ken Rosenthal...

Multiple teams are in contact the Cubs about outfielder Milton Bradley, with one source saying, "You would be shocked at the level of interest."

The Cubs remain confident that they can trade Bradley without assuming the vast majority of the $21 million remaining on his contract over the next two years.

New owner Tom Ricketts has set a limit for how much money the Cubs will include in a deal, one source says. The Cubs can take back a contract but pay only a fixed amount of cash.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Nov 15, 2009 10:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

As I can see it there are essentially possibilities here.

First is that both teams keep their players and they perform at the level they did last year.
In that case the Royals are out $21 Million(12 mil base salary + -2WAR) in value for next year, while the Cubs lose $12 million(21 mil base salary + +2 WAR) over the next 2 years.

Second, the teams swap, and the players perform the same.
Same numbers as above, just for different teams. This actually hurts the Royals more since they possibly lose having someone in RF in 2011 that could provide better than -7 million in value. However, I STRESS possibly, if the Royals don’t have anyone then they will likely be getting what they pay for in a replacement player.

Third, the teams swap but Bradley rebounds.
This is the interesting possibility because there is a LOT to be considered.

How well does Bradley perform? There are 2 options, the first is that his year in Texas wasn’t a fluke and was close to how he could perform when healthy (keeping in mind his ridiculous .396 BABIP that year) then he is likely a 3.5-4 win player, if that is the case, then Bradley is worth $15million(21 mil base salary + 7 WAR) over 2 years. Certainly not bad, and worth the salary.
The other is that he performs closer to his 06/07 self (Note: Bill James has him hitting almost identical to his 2006 campaign[side note: Bill James is notoriously optimistic]). If thats the case then he ends up being worth about 2.5 WAR per year, which basically breaks even with his contract (1.5 mil in value)

the fourth and final possibility is that the Royals simply cut Guillen and eat his salary.
This would be great if the Royals had some young cheap player who could put up 2-2.5 Wins in RF and essentially nullify Guillens contract.
Problem is the Royals dont. The three options they do have Bloomquist, Maier and Fields, are all replacement level at best. Neither Maier nor Bloomquists bats would play in right, and Fields probably couldn’t live up to his name. So this likely forces the Royals to just take a -12mil value hit for one year.

In Short the Royals have really two moves: The low risk/low reward cut of Guillen just to save 9 million next year. Or the trade for Bradley which is the definition of high risk/high reward.

Personally I’d gamble with Bradley. Its dicey, you are hoping a malcontent 31-year old can refind his mojo, while not being a bad influence on young players and ignoring Hillman. But the potential reward is turning a position that going to probably be a sinkhole for the next two years into some decent production, and maybe even getting your moneys worth.

I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT

by RoyalPug on Nov 16, 2009 3:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd take a straight swap without additional money

maybe Dayton could trick Hendry into giving up Hak-Ju Lee instead of cash.

by SK on Nov 16, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I would not do this EVER

JoGui at least helps the community. Bradley is all bout when he gets his bux…

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Nov 16, 2009 5:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

JoGui helps the community?

Examples?

And when you are done with that, I believe all Royals contracts involve some kind of offseason community service type stuff, but I could be wrong.

by AxDxMx on Nov 16, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's nice

But the object of MLB is to, you know, win baseball games. And Bradley is better at helping you do that than Guillen.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 16, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Essentially,

the question to ask is would you sign Bradley for 2 years at 4.5 million per year.

I say yes – it gets us closer to being a good team, and 4.5 million is a good price to gamble on a hitter who at worse might be worth that – and at best might be a flat-out bargain at that price.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Nov 17, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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