Zack Greinke Wins the 2009 Cy Young Award!
by royalsreview on Nov 17, 2009 2:02 PM EST
in News
116 comments
Zack Greinke capped a memorable 2009 Tuesday, winning the Cy Young Award, presented annually by the Baseball Writers of America.
Greinke led the Major Leagues with a sterling 2.16 ERA, despite pitching in front of one of the worst defenses in the American League. In August, there seemed to be doubt as to Greinke's viability as a candidate, but a strong finish by the Royal Ace solidified his support. After falling to 11-8 thanks to pitching for the worst team in the league, Greinke went 6-2 over his final eight starts, posting a 1.29 ERA in the process. Greinke led the American League in WHIP.
Greinke's win is especially sweet for Royals fans, who have wholeheartedly embraced Greinke as one of their own. Amidst the wreckage of a lost baseball decade in Kansas City, Greinke, both on the field, and with his down-to-earth nature and sometimes surrealist wit, has been a treasure.
Greinke did not allow a run until his fifth start of the season and gained additional notoriety thanks to a Sports Illustrated cover story detailing his struggles with anxiety off the field and his return to baseball (which actually happened two to three years ago, depending on how you look at it).
Greinke is the first Royal to win the award since David Cone did so in 1994. Brett Saberhagen won the Cy Young twice, claiming the prize in 1985 and 1989. Greinke received 25 of 28 votes.
The Award was strongly pushed by the Royals, who made no secret of their belief that Greinke was the best pitcher in the American League.
And the advanced stats:
- WAR: 9.4 (1st in AL)
- FIP: 2.33 (1st in AL)
- WPA: 6.07 (1st in AL)
- PRC: 168 (1st in AL)
- RA: 2.51 (1st in AL)
- xFIP: 3.36 (3rd in AL)
- ERA+: 205 (1st in AL)
Also, yeesssssssssssssssssss!
5 recs |
116 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
2 People gave 1st place votes to Felix and one person gave a 1st place vote to Verlander
What idiots!!
by focs on Nov 17, 2009 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fox sports has their names
The first-place votes for Hernandez came from Chris Assenheimer of The Chronicle-Telegram in Elyria, Ohio, and Mark Feinsand of the Daily News In New York. Verlander’s first-place vote was cast by Steve Kornacki of Booth Newspapers in Michigan.
by swing and a miss on Nov 17, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Assenheimer?
Seriously? That guy didn't get constantly made fun of growing up.
by AxDxMx on Nov 17, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Finally, it's official!
Now what do we have to look forward to? Do you realize just how much we’ve posted in the past week or so in anticipation of this moment?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 17, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Final Results
1. Zack
2. Felix
3. Verlander
4. Fat Yankee
5. Halladay
by sterlingice on Nov 17, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
As it should have been
Its nice to see them get it right.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 17, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Close enough
I think I would have had Halladay 3, Verlander 4, and CC or Lester 5 but they got 1/2 right.
by sterlingice on Nov 17, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
Id probably swap Halladay and Verlander. But then again Im probably using the same unfair weak arguments against Halladay that people tried to use against Greinke.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 17, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize Hinske pitched that well
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Congrats Zack!
It’s a well deserved award for an amazing year.
by jsolo on Nov 17, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
LANDSLIDE
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Nov 17, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Congrats Zack
I can’t wait to hear his conference call, I’m sure it’ll be awesome.
by swing and a miss on Nov 17, 2009 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
About time
Great job Zack!!!!
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
by Peterman700 on Nov 17, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
chiming in from Bless You Boys
I’ve been a huge Greinke fan for awhile though – congrats to Zack! I’m not gonna lie, I got excited when my Tigers would face him! :)
by allikazoo on Nov 17, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Onlly thing that would make this day better
would be if they announced that Zack got an endorsement deal with Captain Morgan
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not if we have to watch that guy dressed up as the captain again
Man, that was a joke…
by sterlingice on Nov 17, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good thing the Rangers didn't accept our offer
of Greinke for Kevin Mench . . .
by royalstern05 on Nov 17, 2009 2:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Did we really offer that?
Had to have been Allard thought right?
by ZachMartin2 on Nov 17, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
remember that time he tried to trade Billy Butler for Yuniesky Betancourt?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we showed them.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Nov 17, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or the time
he tried to trade Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez? Oh, wait….
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 17, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And he had like twice the budget Dayton did, too
people always miss the point: we’re not celebrating Allard, we’re pointing out that Dayton Moore is in the same league. And, like Allard, he needs to be fired.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhh
About time
by Gordon Rocks on Nov 17, 2009 2:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Awesome
Greinke is truly a stud.
by I need more Esteban on Nov 17, 2009 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A Greinke day in November!
Very nice.
by hunter s. royal on Nov 17, 2009 2:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations to Zack! This is well-deserved.
And if I understand the way Dayton Moore does contracts, doesn’t this mean that Jose Guillen and Willie Bloomquist get huge bonuses??
by Black and Gold on Nov 17, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
is that on top of the bonuses they get for scouting reports on YBJ?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And finally,
the “pitchers win” wall starts to crumble.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Nov 17, 2009 2:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Now, if only
the “team wins” wall can crumble, the Royals could get awarded the World Championship!!
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 17, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
obvious the whole "team wins" concept is just something that Bud Selig came up with to favor the big markets
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's one thing I'd never accuse Bug Selig of
favoring big markets – he was the owner of the Brewers, it would make no sense.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 17, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
except for his job now is to make all teams money...
and by shoving boston/nyy down our throats, he does a better job of that
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 17, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think the fact that he got to 16 wins was huge
I don’t know if he wins at 14 or 13
by royalsreview on Nov 17, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If TLinc wins in the NL with 15 W
the sabermetrics revolution will officially have beaten down the win lovers.
by swing and a miss on Nov 17, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And all it took was the best sports writer of our generation living in KC
and constantly reminding people about a guy who lapped the field in terms of quality, starting with one of the best 10 game stretches ever (and a national magazine cover) and a similar stretch to end the season.
(ERA+
Zack 205
Felix 174
Halladay 155
Lester 138
WAR
Zack 9.4
Verlander 8.2
Halladay 7.3
Felizx 6.9)
by sterlingice on Nov 17, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what the vote would have been like without Poz
with Poz, but without SI cover story, I say Greinke still eeks out a close win
without Poz at all, I say he finishes third
by royalsreview on Nov 17, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That’s about what I would have thought. Hell, he might finish behind all of those guys with 19 wins (Felix, CC, Verlander) without Poz and what a travesty it would have been.
For all of the talk about sabermetrics winning the day, it took an “old fashioned” sports writer to actually make the difference.
by sterlingice on Nov 17, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad they got an award right for once.
Also, a Felix Cy Young would really hurt our chances of getting him to a nice, reasonable extension.
by xero3k on Nov 17, 2009 2:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So RR, I'm guessing you had 2 articles in the bag for this seeing as how you posted 2 minutes after 1.
Any chance we get to see the “Greinke didn’t win” article, or were you that confident?
by AxDxMx on Nov 17, 2009 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I actually didn't
I did go old-school beat writer and start writing the post prior to the announcement, but I never got started on a “he didn’t win” post… at the end, I just couldn’t foresee it
by royalsreview on Nov 17, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the only reason why you didn't start a "he didn't win" article
involves not wanting to use the F word 50 times in one front page article.
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
by BHWick on Nov 17, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, RR is a bit of an erudite prick like that
Rarely swearing and all ;)
by sterlingice on Nov 17, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jayson Stark to ruin this moment with another inane column in 3…2…1…
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
by self loather on Nov 17, 2009 3:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Captain Morgan's news conference with Zack at 4pm ET
So excited for new Zack quotes.
by swing and a miss on Nov 17, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
finally
i wasn’t getting anything done this morning
not that that’s about to change now…
by AtTheWall on Nov 17, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Voting breakdown
Looking at the vote totals, I deduced the following:
23 voters had it:
Greinke, Felix, X
2 voters went for:
Felix, Greinke, X
1 voter said:
Verlander, Greinke, Felix
1 voter said:
Greinke, CC, X
1 voter said:
Greinke, CC, Felix
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Nov 17, 2009 3:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Congrats to Greinke and all Royals fans
It’s a fine day for you all.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Nov 17, 2009 3:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The baseball world will little note, nor long remember how two blind men and a Mee-she-gan homer voted, but it can never forget what Zack did this season.
Congrats to him. Justice has been served. Now I can go back to real life a very happy man.
I've contracted a particularly virulent form of the R2D2 asshat virus. Please wash eyeballs & keyboard after contact.
by chiefstatnut on Nov 17, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Huzzzah!!!!!!!
Xaq wins it!!!!!!!
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Nov 17, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
this is
so awkward
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Nov 17, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the long, long pauses
between answers to unheard questions is quite weird. And now the sound is out!
by Eppenweb on Nov 17, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just about to ask
if the sound was out for everyone… disappointing, I love listening to his bizarrely candid answers
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Nov 17, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Congrats from an A's Fan
I’m an A’s fan and that’s usually the extent of my interest in baseball. This year, however, Greinke pitched so well that I watched all of his games after mid-April. He did more than pitch well. He made it look like art.
by Unlisted N on Nov 17, 2009 4:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ZacKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!
And there was much rejoicing!
If you watch Rambo backwards, it's Sylvester Stallone healing people with his magic bullet vacuum.
by ratherfantastic on Nov 17, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m watching the press conference – just got through Zack saying he doesn’t get fireworks or why people show up for them, including his fiancee. Good to know he no more discreet than usual.
by Eppenweb on Nov 17, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Congrats to Greinke
Holy Cow — went over to ESPN to read the comments on Greinke.
People care way too much about this stuff. It is sad that people get more worked up over it than Greinke does.
http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/4663979
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Nov 17, 2009 4:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
In fairness, though...
…the Mariner fans all seem to be of the “Well, I think Felix should have won, but this isn’t a travesty or anything” mindset, and there have been several Yankee fans ridiculing their “OMG CC WUZ ROBED” brethren.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Nov 17, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So wait...
Yankees fans are delusional… When did this happen!?!?!? I suppose your going to try and say that Jeter isn’t the best Short Stop Baseball player Human to ever exist.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 17, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was certainly a better human
Therman Munson.
by NotAHippie on Nov 17, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you even read what I said?
I dunno what it is, but you seem to misunderstand every comment of mine you respond to. Although in fairness, I didn’t make it clear that the majority of the Yankees fans who’d posted to that thread at the time I commented agreed Zack deserved it.
there have been several Yankee fans ridiculing their "OMG CC WUZ ROBED" brethren.
Ridiculing. As in, “making fun of.” As in, “Lots of Yankee fans were making fun of less numerous yet incalculably stupider Yankee fans.”
(Of course, I guess it should also be noted that most of those Yankee fans who agreed Zack deserved it are convinced he’ll be pitching for them by 2012, which DOES make them delusional…)
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Nov 18, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So what you're saying is
some of the Yankees fans thought CC was robbed?
by NotAHippie on Nov 18, 2009 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in his defense (gatby's)
i misread it too, until just now
Blank
by benfunke on Nov 18, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Twitter from mellinger:
http://twitter.com/mellinger/status/5806002546
Zack on whether he’s thought about Cy Young since season ended: “Not really. I’ve been playing this World of Warcraft game.”
Of the parts of the press conference that were actually audible on mlb.com, it amused me when he said he’d have to see how the Cy Young Award looks before deciding whether it should be put on the mantle at his parents’ house.
by swing and a miss on Nov 17, 2009 5:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
getting involved in WOW is a slippery, slippery slope
hopefully he won’t fall into the black hole of time drain that this (or many other video games) can be (not that i’ve played WOW, but i’ve seen what it can do). our last hope may be his old lady cracking the whip if it goes too far.
Blank
by benfunke on Nov 18, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
Addictive computer game
New attractive wife
Pitching
Hm… might be tough to sort out those priorities when I put them that way ;)
by sterlingice on Nov 18, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely frivolous stat-related question:
Is Zack Greinke the first pitcher to have a career sub-.500 win/loss record at the time he won the Cy Young?
by Jon Bois on Nov 17, 2009 5:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
One you may want to check on is Eck - I think he is in the HOF with a sub-500 record
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Nov 17, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just looked... Lee was 54-36 prior to winning
by royalsreview on Nov 17, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Willie Hernandez
was 34-32 prior the season he won
by royalsreview on Nov 17, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like Eric Gagne was one win under .500
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Nov 17, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HELL YES
Congrats to Zack. Had a feeling about this year for him. Now if we could stop leaving so many runners on base we may do a bit of contending.
by thewhales on Nov 17, 2009 7:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the men left on base are the reason we arent contending?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 17, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched all season
and don’t remember seeing men on base at all.
by Black and Gold on Nov 17, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
How about the men who didn't even get on base to be left?
And the ones from the other team the Royals couldn’t prevent from getting on base because they can’t field.
Now I think we have a complete picture of the problem ;)
by sterlingice on Nov 17, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations to Zack and the Royals
This reminds me of when Lincecum won the Cy Young in San Francisco. People wondered whether the award meant anything, given how poorly the Giants were playing, but it’s clear now, a year later, that the team has a new identity and the award was just the beginning of something really good. Can it also happen in K.C.? See you in the ALCS playing the A’s, sooner than a lot of people think.
"One time Rickey Henderson ran so fast that Rickey Henderson went into the future."
by TomB on Nov 17, 2009 9:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey devil_fingers
Can you calculated Base Runs FIP – WAR for the top 10 starters in the AL this year? Or, if you don’t have updated stats, can you give me the query so I can do it myself with the Pitch f/x dataset?
by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2009 10:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Do you need it by a certain time/day?
I can do it really quick once Baseball Databank comes out with its thing (and I get the new park factors into my database), otherwise, I’ll need a few more days.
I guess if you don’t need the park adjustments to be too awesome, I could do it very quickly.
What’s it for?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing, just for my own personal perusal
I don’t need it by any time or day, and I assume you’ll write something up on FanGraphs once BDB comes out. If you’ll give me the query you use, I could do it myself using pitch f/x data (you can created stat lines from it) and apply park factors myself…
by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll post it somewhere
The query’s a big mess ( and involes a number of my own tables), I need to redo it this offseason. It’s based on something I did when I was just getting into SQL and didn’t know how to use the @= commands, so there’s lots of repetition (and it’s pretty slow, although it works).
Are you just looking for the BsR-FIP numbers, or all the WAR/pythegenPat/dynamic run-to-win conversion stuff, too? Because the basic BsR-FIP stuff is super-easy, it’s all the other stuff that’s a mess.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I was more curious about the WAR part
I want to see how close Verlander is to Grienke in terms of BsR – WAR. By FG WAR, he’s 1.2 behind – but I bet the gap closes a bit with BsR, because normal FIP will underrate extreme K guys a bit.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't do a real top 10
but I did do an adjusted version for a few pitchers a few weeks back… Let me see if I can find the spreadsheet… here it is.
Remember that BsR-FIP is scaled to RA. This uses park adjustments and league adjustments. Pretty sure these are end-of-season stats
PLayer, Adjusted BsR-FIP, Win%, WAR
Greinke 2.73, .742, 9.52
Timmah 2.74, .716, 8.45
Doc 3.21, .678, 8.04
Verlander 3.25, .674, 7.88
Felix 3.52, .640, 6.84
CC 3.55, .635, 6.45 (This will improve when the new NY park factor is calced)
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you give me Verlander's FIP - WAR?
(the way you calculate it?)
by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It looks like BsR is saying he's a lot worse than by FIP
If you scale his FIP shown on FanGraphs to RA, you get about 3.00. BsR has him about a quarter of a run higher. I wonder why that is?
by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that it's park adjusted
and Comerica is a pitchers park
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Okay, well I guess there is nothing interesting here. Thanks for running the numbers.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, it is pretty interesting
park adjustments make a big difference
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
let me se....
I’ll just take your 3.00, as FIP-WAR scaled to RA is too much for me to run around and do without my database at this time of night.
3 = 3.04 adjusted, and then I get 8.67 WAR
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 17, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very wierd then
To get 3.00, I just divided his FIP on FanGraphs (2.80) by .93 (roughly that percentage of runs are earned). The proper way to do it I believe would just be to adjust the constant to fit lgRA instead of lgERA, but I don’t think it will make a difference.
Would there be any reason why BsR has him so much worse? Isn’t it supposed to make the really good pitchers better?
by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that last part
PythagenPat to makes the WAR differences between good and bad pitchers more extreme in the modern run environment. I’d have to look more closely at BsR-FIP to see.
FanGraphs uses difference park adjustments than I dodatabase (I use terpsfan’s, hopefully he’ll update soon). They also calculate RAR a big differently than just win%-replacement win%, i think.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Nov 18, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's my understanding that BsR - FIP is a dynamic formula, that adjusts for the run values of each event based on the run value dictated by the pitcher
For example, if a pitcher faces 100 hitters, walks 0, strikes out 99 and gives up a home run, then the value of a home run is obviously less than the 13 multiplier in the FIP formula. BsR – FIP makes it so you are judging the pitcher by a custom set of linear weights that basically assumes that an entire team is made up of opposing hitters against that pitcher.
So with Verlander, he allows fewer base runners than the average pitcher, so the real value of a home run or walk isn’t as high as it is for an average pitcher. FIP inherently overrates bad pitchers and underrates good pitchers because it is a static formula. BsR FIP tries to make it dynamic.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Go Zack!
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
by T3T on Nov 18, 2009 1:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Congrats to Zack. A phenomenal season
I’m glad he won, he was completely deserving. I got to see him pitch twice this year at the K, and he was terrific.
My comment concerns how the Yankees fans think Sebathia got robbed, and their reasoning is that Greinke never pitched against them, and only once against the Red Sox. Well, Sebathia never pitched against the Yankees either this year, so if they use that excuse, then they have to hold that same standard to their own pitcher.
To me, I guess it isn’t about how well Zack would do on a decent team. I thought: What would the other pitchers on this list do in Zack’s shoes? How well would they have pitched for the Royals this year? How many wins would any of them have accrued? What would their stat lines be? It isn’t enough to me to say that Zack would have won 20-25 games on a decent team, but also just what the others would have done if they were on the Royals. I don’t believe they would have fared as well. Maybe Halladay survives, but not the others.
Zack deserved the CY, and he earned it. Congratulations on a great season Zack
Superstitious? I'm not superstitious
*spins Frank White bobblehead conterclockwise three times
by topekaroyal on Nov 18, 2009 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This does NOT count towards the battle for Grass Creek.
Seriously, I am very relieved that Zack won. He totally deserved it, and you guys deserve to watch someone awesome every five days. Well done Zack!
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Nov 18, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
He really deserved this.
I don't know, I'm not in shape yet.
by The_Fan on Nov 18, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is justice in the world after all.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Nov 19, 2009 12:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The sporting news predicted Zack would win a Cy Young
What year did they say?
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Nov 19, 2009 10:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people saw this breakout coming
I think we all kind of knew that Zack was in for a special season from the very start and even in the offseason, little did we know that it would be close to historically special.
by AxDxMx on Nov 20, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This
Although If I remember right, he had a truly awful awful spring training. Saving all the good stuff up! :-)
by kcbottom9th on Nov 20, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.... I actually found my prediction from NYRoyal's February RCI post
I voted Greinke for breakout Yes, he has already broken out, but I guess I’m equating a second breaking out as becoming a superstar. I think he takes another step towards that this year with an amazing year, and maybe even some Cy Young votes if the Royals can scrape together enough offense to get him the wins he needs to be considered. Would you consider a top 5 CYA showing a second breakout?
by AxDxMx on Feb 21, 2009 7:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/2/21/766694/royals-confidence-index-fe#12405176
I didn’t dare dream he’d be this good though, and I kind of figured most voters would ignore him and the Royals.
by AxDxMx on Nov 20, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Royals Review
Related FanShots on Royals Review
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
