Fangraphs: 2009 Butler vs. 2008 Gordon

Our old friend, devil_fin... Matt, compares the two seasons and fans reactions to those two seasons. Interesting stuff.

about 2 years ago CollininCalifornia 17 comments 2 recs |

Comments

Hmmmmmmm.

Makes you think, doesn’t it?

Which guy would you rather have going forward and can only take one? Even if I threw out Gordon’s 2009, I’d think Billy with the bat. Gordon’s defense HAS been questioned even with a great UZR for 2007 and -3 for 2008.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 23, 2009 8:06 PM EST reply actions

Despite my best efforts, a lot of people seemed to think I was talking about value going forward

I wasn’t. I was just making a point about WAR and perception.

Going forward, I’d take Billy — too much upside with the bat (and there’d better be, considering that’s pretty much all he can do). But it’s closer than people think.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 23, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions

Really? I thought it was pretty clear you pointing out how we all still love offense.

And that love of offense causes people to overstate Billy’s year and ignore Gordon’s.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 23, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions

well, thanks

I’m glad someone got it

I really don’t remember BIlly being THAT horrible on the bases, but I’m guessing a lot of it is just that he almost never takes the extra base.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 23, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions

For sure

Doesn’t mean much, but he 51 doubles, and just 1 triple. Stretching it out really wasn’t his thing this year.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 23, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions

yeah, but baserunning takes that into account

it means that given, say, a situation when Butler was on second and the hitter hits a double, he’s really bad about getting home relative to everyone else. It doesn’t matter all that much individually… but Butler got to 5 runs below average on stuff like that. That’s pretty bad, he was one of the worst in baseball.

Like I said in the article, though, bats almost always develop more (value-wise) than the other skills.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 23, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions

I made the mistake of reading the comments on Fangraphs

I appreciate the effort in responding to many of them, but, man, that is a battle you cannot win.

On a competely unrelated note, how can you say that Gordon is more valuable going forward and more feared at the plate than Butler?

by Gopherballs on Nov 24, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions

I'm trying to find a middle ground

I know that I can’t respond to everything, but I don’t want to just ignore them.

The current Cabrera post is turning out the same way…

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 24, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions

For your sanity

please ignore the comments complaining that WAR does not take in account how a big bat in the middle of the lineup makes everyone around him better. Otherwise, you will turn into Dave Cameron (before he stopped responding to comments and apparently found inner peace).

by Gopherballs on Nov 24, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions

haha

what happened with Dave? Did he go nuts on people?

As Collin will note, the Gordon/Butler post on FGs was implicitly directed (in a friendly manne, I hope) at Poz and Mellinger… my luck is that they’re both done with baseball and FanGraphs for the season.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 24, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions

Yes

If I remember correctly, there was one particularly bad Royals-related thread where the flat earthers came out of the wood work. He seems to have mellowed over the last year or so and become less confrontational.

by Gopherballs on Nov 24, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions

ah, maybe it was the Jacobs era?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 24, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions

oh man

I think you may be thinking of was the comments section to his post on the Jacobs trade

I’m sure he feels dumb about it now… luckily, everyone here saw what a disaster Moore’s offseason was and so no one needs to go back and admit that they were wrong about all that stuff. Right?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 24, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions