Naming the value
As the winter rolls forward I am reading through all the winter rumblings and banter about free agent signings and trade potential.
I wanted to hear from the Royals fans about a few names that could be used as trade bait to upgrade the Royals bullpen, outfield and overall run production.
I read a rumor recently that Mets may make Fernando Martinez available. 21 year old outfielder....
Do the Royals have anything the Mets would want? Would Jose Guillen and someone else be interesting for the Mets?
Brian Bannister? could he have value to the D'Backs or perhaps the Brewers?
Here's the poll.
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Sorry, I voted for the trade Zacky now.
Now that he has the Cy award in his pocket, he has Yankee written all over him. Do any of you see him as a Royal after 2012? So, lets trade him now for 5 or 6 top of the line prospects. It is the only way we are going to get better.
He may not be a Royal after 2012...
But he definitely wont be a Yankee. Do you really think Zack wants any part of that media?
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by averagegatsby on Nov 26, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I could see him leading the Marlins to their next World Series.
It’s in Florida and he’d be able to bat.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
except they'll never pay him
I wondered in the offseason if part of Zack’s willingness to be locked up is that neither TBA nor FLO would be able to pay him if he hit free agency in 2011, anyway
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 26, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
i think the Rays would be willing to
they have a low payroll, but they know value when they see it
Blank
sure, they see the value
I just don’t think they’ll be in a position to pay $20m/yr for any one player in the near future
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 30, 2009 5:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If the Royals can improve now, they can keep Greinke long term, if they continue to suck wind, they won’t.
I guess Dayton is the only person that really knows what he can spend, trade for etc.
I wouldn’t object to trading him, as long as we get several top notch players in return.
At least one McCutcheon type
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
Combo
I would look at a combination.
Do these things before 12/15:
1) Sign Crisp,
2) Trade for or sign a LH starter,
3) Trade for Brad Hawpe
4) Sign a decent defensive Catcher
After 2/15:
5) make a Spring Training trade for OF help or make a late winter cheap FA signing.
CF – Crisp
LF – DeJesus
1B – Butler
RF – Hawpe
DH – Ka’aihue
3B – Gordon
C – new
2B – Getz
SS – Betancourt
Bench – B. Pena, Bloomquist, Fields, Betemit, Defensive OF specialist (or Meier)
Brad Hawpe is one of the worst defensive players in baseball
I mean, Guillen hasn’t played enough to “qualify” the last season, but Hawpe is on the same level as Adam Dunn… except he’s about a win worse with the bat. He’ll be 31 next season.
Basically, he’s Mike Jacobs with a better bat. As a hitter, he’s probably better than Kila, but not by much. Do you really want to trade for another aging DH who’s possiblly overpaid at $7.5M?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 26, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
I don't want to trade for anyone that is already 31.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Are you really willing to give up the chance to win 73 rather than 72 games in 2010
for the chance to maybe contend down the road?
How dare you call yourself a Royals fan.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 26, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
You watch it.
Royals fans have been labeled as an “instant gratification” group. I’m just doing my best to follow The Process and allow GMDM and Trey-san to work their magic.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Nov 26, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What do you love about it?
The fact that it is used in a productive manner about 25% of the time?
BOOM! ROASTED!
Speaking of value
Any one see the bargains over at the royals store?
Pure crystal Royals merch! Only $9,500 for the regulation size bat! Stocking stuffer?
“http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3829554”
Tangled up in Plaid
by McClure 'stache on Nov 26, 2009 3:38 AM EST reply actions
Not sure I like Martinez...
Too hurt too often, never played more than ~85 games in a season and his offensive numbers are all over the board(probably due to small samples)
In terms of CF the first thing I’d do is try to sign Crisp to a 1 year incentive deal, and if that falls through, I’d trade for a CF, but not Granderson or Sizemore, I’d personally go after Ryan Sweeney. Hes younger(only 24), cheaper (still making league minimum), under club control for at least 3+ years, gets on base at a good clip (~.350) and may be just as good if not better than Sizemore or Granderson in the outfield(their 3 year UZR data is all very similar although sweeney is trending up, while the other two are trending down, and the fan scouting report supports this ranking all three about a 3.8 out of 5.)
The only downside to Sweeney is that we’d have to wrangle him from Billy Beane…not something I want to see Moore try to do.
I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT
On trading Zack
There have been three occasions when the Royals have traded a pitcher who had won or would later win a Cy Young award.
The following is the complete list of players acquired by the Royals in those three trades, in which they also gave up Bill Pecota and Chris Jelic:
Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson, Mauro Gozzo, Gregg Jefferies, Keith Miller, Kevin McReynolds, Chris Stynes, David Sinnes, and Tony Medrano. Stynes (along with Jon Nunnally) later turned into Hector Carrasco and Scott Service; McReynolds turned into 324 bad PA from Vince Coleman, who then turned into Jim Converse.
Meanwhile, Cone won 167 games, put up a 115 ERA+, and made four All-Star rosters wearing other uniforms, while Saberhagen left KC and rolled up a 120 ERA+ elsewhere before retiring. I don’t think any of you even want to consider the Win Share discrepancy.
Which is a roundabout way of saying I think I’d just as soon keep him, because trading someone that good for a package just never seems to work out here.
This space for rent.
in fairness
after we traded him, Sabes never pitched more than 153 innings in a season except in 1994 and 1998. While he was still pretty good when he wasn’t injured (especially in ’94), he was injured an awful lot.
This isn’t to say that the Saberhagen trade wasn’t a bad trade for the Royals—it was, no question. But I think it gets a worse reputation than it deserves.
Also
These trades are irrelevant in this discussion. They don’t impact any Greinke trade, and they should not dissuade you from trading him.
Actually, they should.
As a part of a larger whole, they sure should.
How about you go back through the history of all Cy Young winners who were traded in their prime and see how often the team that traded them away came out ahead? I wouldn’t be surprised if the only times it’s happened is when the Cy Young winner in question either got hurt straight away or was a “bad” Cy Young winner to begin with (talking someone like Steve Bedrosian here).
There is a certain point at which trading the known commodity is a fool’s errand. You could not possibly have traded Babe Ruth in the 20s for a package which other owners were actually willing to part with and still come ahead. If a guy is worth 9 wins a year for the next five years, even if you get three players for him, those three players have to improve your team by 3 wins each for five years (even if those “years” are delayed) — over and above the guys they replace, of course. If even one of your new players is a bomb, that increases the success challenge for the others by 50%.
You’ve got to be a genius to swindle the other guy like that. Schuerholz wasn’t, Herk wasn’t, and GMDM ain’t.
This space for rent.
9 wins at 1 position is more valuable than 9 combined at 3 different positions
If the other 2 players with the single 9 WAR guy are above replacement at all, it makes the first option more attractive. Of course, that situation really doesn’t apply to the Royals!
I voted for "None of the Above"
That’s not an option you say? It’s the ONLY option. Wait for some more money to come off the books, sign cheap guys this year that will be under team control for a little while, and put up a good foundation this year, maybe fill a hole or two for a .500 year in 2011 with minimal help from our draft picks, and a pennant run in 2012 when our young farm system finally puts some guys here contributing and we possibly sign a big bat to put us over the top (our payroll should be low that year if we have a lot of draft picks up here playing). Any deviation from that plan will likely set us back another 5 years, because while Dayton’s talent at signing FAs and trading is crap, he does actually seem to be doing well through the draft (for the most part). Trading draft picks away for mediocre players is the wrong way to build a team.
by AxDxMx on Nov 26, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I would have picked "none of the above" too
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Nov 26, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
truth, +1
The Royals can take some small steps to rebuild towards .500 this offseason, and then maybe do some major rebuilding for 2011 after Guillen, Cruz, and the Professor come off the books, but they should not stray from having our farm system put guys onto the big league club throughout 2011 and 2012.
Me too
Maybe sign a few cheap defense first guys like Bobby Crosby or Austin Kearns or Jeff Fiorentino as bench guys, but nothing major.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Trading Zack right now would be really hard to do, he has too much value.
The royals would almost certianly not get his full value. Also, yes, I can see him resigning with KC. If we get better, I think Grinke will take a KC offer if it is anywhere in the ballpark of other clubs.
Why trade Bannister? He will be an effective pitcher for a long time if nothing else to the rest of the pitchers.
Trade prospects for a center fielder or sign Crisp? Well, Crisp will likely take a one year deal, so it is not a long term solution, and we need one. Trading for Granderson would fit that, and depending on what we would have to give up, it could be a good fit for the Royals.
Spending on free agency is a good idea, but it should mostly be spent on international free agent prospects.
Go Royals!
Am I the only one who sees Zack as a career Royal?
I think he realizes he has a good thing going in Kansas City and wants to stay. I don’t think he’s going anywhere.
Going to a new location could really screw up a lot of the progress he’s made battling mental illness as well. I think he probably would want to stay in a very supportive community where he’s established and comfortable. I also think those mental health issues affect his trade value.
I just don’t understand why we would trade him immediately after signing him to a long term deal. Why would we go after prospects when we have the best pitcher in the MLB on lockdown for not very much money?
I understand we need other positions, but we don’t have pitching to replace him so we would still probably lose on the trade.
I think you may be right.
In my heart, he’s a Royal forever. We stuck by him through the bad times, and hopefully he’ll stick by us in the good times. I’m not saying he has to accept really lowball offers from the Royals to stick around, but it would be nice if he’d take the “Sweeney discount” after this deal runs out. He could be one of the highest paid players in the game if he has 2 more seasons at even 75% of this one and the farm system really is poised to deliver some great talent right before his current contract runs out. I think he’d be crazy to leave, as we need each other. He can actually go get Chipotle in this city. In NY, he would be mobbed. You think Jeter gets to go eat at Chipotle? Maybe if the Chipotle in NY has a VIP section!
Oh, Ax.
Don’t you realize that Jeter faxes his order into Chipotle and then sends his personal assistant to get it?
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