Rumor: Callaspo to LA for a 28 year old backup catcher AJ Ellis
I can't even believe I wrote those words. YES! Let's cash in one of the better offensive players we have to plug a defensive hole with a stopgap!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=ellis-001and
His minor league stats don't look terrible, and he is a Missouri native (Cape Girardeau), but I think we could probably get him cheaper than Callaspo.
This quote scares the bejesus out of me:
"Our free-agent pursuit will not be as aggressive as in the past," he said. "We’re going to focus on trades first. We’re going to exhaust every opportunity to make trades.
"In the previous two offseasons, we’ve been more likely to pop a free agent or two early on. I look for us to exhaust every possible trade scenario this offseason before we enter into the free-agent market."
Since Dayton has obviously done so well trading for talent, I wonder how badly he'll be taken advantage of this winter...
This quote from Dutton bothers me:
Callaspo, 26, became expendable Friday when the Royals acquired second baseman Chris Getz from the Chicago White Sox along with third baseman Josh Fields in a trade for third baseman Mark Teahen and $1 million.
If that's how the front office feels I don't know what to say. Hello 100 losses and Dayton Moore being fired. That's the best I can hope for.
And to end on a positive note, Bianchi is hitting well over his last 10 games in the AFL.
about 2 years ago
AxDxMx
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yeah.. let's acquire a guy with 1 ML hit
whose 2009 numbers project to be .236/.340/.281 when you bring MLEs into the mix. Whose raw AAA numbers mainly look good because he plays at high altitudes.
The closest AJ Ellis comes to being a regular major leaguer is the fact that his name is a fusion of AJ Hinch and Mark Ellis.
But it’ll be awesome to get into the Royals HOF in an empty stadium in May when the team is out of contention and we’re playing Getz, Fields, and Ellis every day.
Dayton, it’s not your job to get the Dodgers through Frank McCourt’s divorce.
Smoking a bowl of Meth is a better idea than trading Callaspo for AJ Ellis.
Hoping that the Tigers fire Leyland and steal Trey Hillman from the Royals
i agree that Callaspo is too high a price for Ellis
I do really like Ellis… over the course of his minor league career he has more walks than strikeouts And he is supposed to be a stellar defender… that’s the quickest and cheapest way to upgrade a team in one off season – defense.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 9, 2009 3:50 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure we'll get a throw in arm in the deal
Probably a kid with some issues (cortes) and flip him for 2 AA prospects.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
agreed
and while I don’t mean for this comment to act as an approval of the process, but if we commit to defense-first at C, then Pena will know that he has to keep improving defensively to get more playing time (rather than rest on his laurels b/c he has already been named the starter).
Blank
I'd say it's probably about even, but
he stands to lose more than just money in a trade. JP Howell for Gathright comes to mind. And don’t forget we got hosed for Yuni, and then we had to dump Gutierrez for crap (Pina apparently isn’t good enough to even be a stopgap this year). Callaspo for Billy Buckner is the only trade that’s really worked out in his favor, while he does have Gil Meche as a FA signing that worked.
Ahem, Burgos for Bannister
and I’d put Dotel (who was gone at the end of the season) for Davies (inconsistent but clearly has upside, plus team control) in the win column as well.
And I think Affeldt for Shealy could have been counted as a win if the Royals hadn’t been so gun-shy about promoting Shealy last year.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Even those three that are being counted as positives haven't brought much to the Royals yet.
Bannister is still a question mark. Davies is a huge question mark. Shealy is nowhere to be found.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
You think he should have been able to get more out of those deals?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 9, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily, but it's not like any of the moves are solving problems on the field.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
So, you're saying he probably couldn't have gotten more...
but that he should have gotten more?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 9, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, how about I ask why was it a win on the field?
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Ok, just checked and somehow Bannister ended up at 2.8 WAR for this year.
Solid move for GMDM. Still count me skeptical on assigning too much credit for the other two moves.
Fair enough?
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Fair enough
Look, I’m not saying that DM is a great trader, by any means. It’s just that it’s very rare to see a GM getting incredible value in return when that GM doesn’t have much to offer to begin with. Trading guys like Burgos, Dotel (on an expiring contract, and at the deadline), and Affeldt are generally not going to be “franchise-building” transactions.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 9, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed
Paper wins are great. Real ones are better.
I disagree on Banny though. He’s been a legit good starter for two sepearate seasons.
Yeah, after reading that I can see how it would invite that comment.
I was thinking more to take away the excuse of “Burgos was a huge POS, therefore getting anything for him was a win.” When, Burgos hadn’t shown that side (at least publicly) in KC.
But it’s all for nothing because you are correct, Bannister has provided some value since he’s been here. More productive than I remembered and hopefully not peaked.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Even if he wasn't a bad personality
He was a bad pitcher. He blew a dozen save situations in 2006 – and that doesn’t include games he entered tied and lost. Do you realize what that means? That means that as bad as the rest of the team was, if we could have replaced him with a reliable closer, that 2006 Royals team could have had over 70 wins. Not playoff material, certainly, but much less pathetic looking than their actual record was.
A team with Mark Redman as its ace and Emil Brown as its best hitter would have had more wins than this year’s Royals team (Grienke ace, Butler best hitter, AND a great closer) if not for Ambiorix Burgos.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
That brings to mind a line from the late 80's
“They should cover the field at Veterans’ Stadium with paper, because on paper, the Phillies are a great team.”
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 9, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Burgos is an exclamation point
in a negative way. To get anything for him other than a big “F You” from whomever we dumped him on is a major, major win. Heck, Tony Pena Jr. would have been a win if received in exchange for Ambiorix Burgos.
As I said, Shealy is a “could have been.” And I’ll stand by my analysis of the Davies trade, given that we were only giving up two months of Dotel’s services. (and, IIRC, he got injured pretty quickly for the Braves and missed most of that!)
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Don't disagree with that.
Just pointing out that Dayton’s positive moves have contributed very little positive value to the Royals on the field.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
This isn't really a response to you, AxDxMx.
But I think you’re short changing him a little… I’d call most of the trades below wins, or at least a wash. Some of the dudes we got were not anything special or particularly good, but we mostly didn’t give up anything to get them. One thing I’m noticing is that Moore has a penchant for trading away players he had traded for. Bert would follow suit.
What we got for what we traded:
Brandon Duckworth for cash
Jorge de la Rosa for Tony Graffanino
Odalis Perez, Blake Johnson and Julio Pimentel and cash considerations for Dessens
Lumsden and Cortes for MacDougal
Keppinger for Gotay
Gload for Sisco
Bannister for Burgos
Davies for Dotel
Roman Colon for Danny Christensen
Callaspo for Buckner
Ramon Ramirez for basically JDLR
Jordan Parraz for Tyler Lumsden
There’s a couple others that are meh. And they are all mostly inconsequential in the long haul. But I think he’s had a few decent waiver claims too. Tejeda is one that comes to mind. Rule 5 has been OK… Riske was good. Mahay was good, but should have been flipped. Grudz was a decent. Etc…
I’ve been thinking about it, and I’m just as guilty as anybody, but it seems we are all a little quick to blast Moore in a “what have you done for me lately” manner or “why didn’t you trade Carlos Rosa for Albert Pujols and cash?”. Obviously, I cannot defend some of the moves. But it seems like he’s being defined by only his poor moves, that he now seems to be be trying to fix. Last off-season was a disaster, and Cruz unexpectedly suckin it didn’t help. I don’t agree with some of the moves, I’m indifferent on some, and I like some. I don’t like the “we’re going after OBP” talk and then trading for Jacobs, “trust the process”, etc… but I don’t think Bert is a long term answer for any Royals’ related questions. I think we can get more than Ellis for him, but I’m not opposed to getting Ellis as part of a trade for Bert. Wait and see, I guess.
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Nov 9, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A lot of those trades would be better, if we'd hadn't screwed them up so bad.
We should have played Keppinger. We should not have let Cortes go (at least not for Yuni). We should not have overexposed Gload. We could have done better with Rosa.
I’m good with getting a cheap, defensive catcher, but you gotta get something else for Callaspo. At least get us a reliable reliever WITH the catcher.
by Dadunca on Nov 9, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I understand that
But put his moves into 3 columns: Good moves that improve the team, obvious moves any GM should make, Bad moves
I think Dotel falls into the obvious column, it was just a matter of return. 2 other moves that should fall in the obvious column are trading Grudzielanek for anything 2 years ago, and Mahay for anything at the deadline this year. What’s that? He didn’t do that, and cut Mahay at the end of August so he could catch on with a contender?
I almost think Moore had to know something was up with Burgos (as in he’s a bad person) and shipped him out like Gutierrez and Cortes, except Burgos paid off and Moore was correct, so he tried it again with Gutierrez and Cortes. Getting anything for Burgos was a plus, if this was the case (and it is pure speculation by me).
Anyways, I think I’d like this move a lot more if Hinch, I mean Ellis, wasn’t already past his age 27 season. Not saying he’s going to be terrible either, just hope we can get more than that for Callaspo.
Agreed, sort of.
Grudz and Mahay should have been traded, but maybe DM tried. I mean, is either even going to still be in baseball next year? Mahay may catch on somewhere, but Grudz had 39 at bats between rookie ball and AAA last year, and was injured the year before. So could we have realistically gotten anything, let alone anything better than a lower minor leaguer? And Mahay was free to the Twins, so they took a chance. They probably don’t take that chance if they have to give something up.
I would also guess Moore had an idea on Burgos, and yes it paid off. But Gutz and Cortes had not shown anything at the MLB level, so you’re not going to get as much. I’m going to hold my judgment of the Gutz trade for a year or two. Cortes… yeah…
Anyway, I 100% agree with you on Ellis. I’m holding out hope that it wouldn’t be a 1-for-1.
Don't Stop Believing!
Weren't we offered Jason Donald for Mahay?
His first year in KC. If that was a legit offer, it’s inexcusable leaving it on the table.
Don't know if it was true.
It was definitely rumored to be true, but who knows?
Nope, Greg Schaum (the postgame guy) debunked that one
said it was never offered.
Mahay still should’ve been traded during year one of his deal though, even though the return would’ve been less than Donald.
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
Was he able to do that without breaking away
from saying “(Random player) is not capable of being (something really valuable) but I like him as a (something of little value” on a non stop steam?
does this make any sense
Dadunca what do you mean
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
by gashousegang on Nov 13, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
i don't know.
I hope we didn’t turn that down.
Don't Stop Believing!
As I recall,
The Phillies were rumored to want Mahay and everyone called for Donald. I don’t think the Phillies had any intention of giving him up, though.
Coincidentally, I had a dream last summer around the trade deadline in which I was sitting in an office in Philly with GMDM and the Philly brass trying to iron out a trade for Grudz. It was an awesome dream. Then I woke up.
Grudz was a Gold Glover in 2006, solid in 2007, and wasn't playing bad in 2008
We could have shipped him out pre-deadline for a minor league reliever. At the time, maybe they thought the compensation pick was going to come through in Free Agency when he signed with another team, not if he signed. Dayton obviously did not anticipate the bottom of the market completely falling out. So I might call that one a wash, but Mahay was never going to be part of a winning team here and I doubt he even tried.
I'm not sure about a 28 yr. old rookie for Callaspo but
Pena and Ellis for .8 million sounds better than Olivo and Buck for 6.5 million.
by Steve Hovley on Nov 9, 2009 6:59 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I thought this was some kind of joke
I don’t know what to say—Ellis’ OPS away from Albequerque? below 700. At least he only is going to be 29 at the start of the season.
So weird, right?
Look, I’m all for GMDM going after high-OBP, good defensive players. That’s a fabulous strategy. But there’s only one real caveat to the high-OBP thing: if a player has no power, he will not be able to maintain that OBP at the ML level because pitchers will simply challenge him. I would hate for DM to trade for this guy and then when he fails, inevitably, to be a ML-caliber guy, for DM to then say/think, see? OBP is no panacea!
It really feels to me like DM is learning on the job. The trade for Teahen was a good move. Teahen is not a valuable guy in this environment. He’s not worth what he’ll be paid this year. And to get two guys for the minimum who might be decent is a faultless move.
I’d like to see him trade Callaspo. I think he’ll be able to get good value for him. But AJ Ellis is not good value.
Players like
Luis Castillo, Chone Figgins, Nyjer Morgan, Yadier Molina, Skip Schumacher etc etc all OBP’d north of .350 while slugging below .400. Which really isn’t much power at all. You allow a slightly higer SLG and the number of players who quailfy becomes pretty large.
My favorite line from the article:
Money is an increasing factor for the Dodgers, whose owner, Frank McCourt, appears headed for a messy divorce.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Nov 9, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Dayton Moore: Helping other teams make it through their owner's divorces since 2009
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
why is the bowl on fire?
i don’t know if you made the pic, but what if the milk carton said “the process” instead of the slightly redundant “low obp milk”…?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 9, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
"why is the bowl on fire?"
left over remnants of a Gload explosion, i’d guess
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
by BHWick on Nov 9, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Would trading Callaspo for Ellis being the equivalent of
elbowing out the microwave glass to make breakfast?
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
some guy who misspelled "honor" likes AJ Ellis
http://newmexicofan.blogspot.com/2009/08/j-ellis.html
*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"
Insane stat about Royals catchers sited in Star comments about this trade
Royals catchers in 2009:
BA: .270
2B: 32
HR: 31
RBI: 99
OPS: .814
vs. Hall of Famer Johnny Bench, 162 game average
BA:.267
2B: 29
HR: 29
RBI:103
OPS: .817
Sources:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=KCR&year=2009
The catcher offense was very good this year
I wonder if we are downgrading even by upgrading the defense (we probably are would be my guess).
when you have two catchers batting 4 times a game...
the HRs, 2Bs, etc are likely to get to the same stats as someone good. That’s nice on the AVG & OPS though.
Don't Stop Believing!
unless that excluded
catchers being used as DH… then, wow!
Don't Stop Believing!
Yeah, those numbers exclude catchers being used as DH
The Royals’ DH numbers, despite Olivo’s .735 SLG in 34 AB, comprise another, much sadder story:
.209/.281/.374 OPS .655
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=KCR&year=2009#as%20DH
getz
Weird, in my mind, when we traded to acquire Getz, it made Getz expendable, not Callaspo.
by KyleM on Nov 9, 2009 4:17 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I was really getting into the idea...
…of this trade, until I looked at the home/away splits. What kind of Home park do they play in? Little League? The whole team is hitting .360 at home and .250 away! It’s ridiculous. I still really like the idea of getting a defensive catcher that can OBP over .350, but I am starting to think this might not be the guy for that.
No matter what though, I’m ok with trading Callaspo. I know he hit well, but he’s just not a winning ball player. You’ve heard of the guys that do all the little things to help you win. He does all the little things that help you lose. Whatever the best value is, I’ll take it. If it’s a 28 year old rookie catcher then so be it. I’m thinking AJ Ellis and Tony Abreu. That would definitely be fair.
You know he was the Royals 2nd most valuable position player according to WAR in 2009, right?
I know he hit well, but he’s just not a winning ball player. You’ve heard of the guys that do all the little things to help you win. He does all the little things that help you lose.
Whether or not he does that again is a question mark. Put him on the Yankees, I bet he’d be a winner then.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
why can't he be a winner
like Bloomquist, Gload, Mientkiewicz, Eckstein, and all the other scrappy guys?
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
I think
Abreu was traded to the Dbacks.
by gordonrules on Nov 10, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
I SO CALLED THIS
but im too lazy to find the post lol, any good player the royals have ever had in the past decade has been or eventually will be traded off…Grienke in ’10 campaign, Soria ’10 I am making my predictions, and Butler in ’11
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
Greinke at the trade deadline?
I kind of think they’ll be forced to keep Greinke or the fans will revolt.
I could see Moore trading everyone else though, especially Butler and Meche.
Well, Moore hates Butler so it's a possibility.
Meche had a lot of suitors before we blew him up, so Moore had his opportunities to pull the trigger.
Hell at this point
I’d rather pair Pena with a low cost free agent de jour or whoever would have been starting at Omaha and be done with it. Trading Callaspo for a backup catcher is absurd. I can accept getting rid of him for some decent middle relief but for a guy that can’t hit better than my sister…I think not.
Selling high on Callaspo is a good idea
Upgrading catcher defense is also a good idea.
Trading Callaspo for a 29 year old catcher who played at a field with higher park metrics than the High Desert field doesn’t seem like a great idea.
Wouldn’t be the worst trade in Dayton’s tenure, but hopefully there’s more to this one.
In other news, I think another pitch just got past Olivo to the wall….
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
amending that
Trading Callaspo for a 29 year old catcher with no major league experience who played at a field with higher park metrics than the High Desert field doesn’t seem like a great idea.
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
The Dumb and Dumber ending to the quote:
Trading Callaspo for a 29 year old catcher with no major league experience who played at a field with higher park metrics than the High Desert field doesn’t seem like a great idea.
It seems like the greatest idea ever! – Dayton Moore
I’m kinda hard on Dayton sometimes.
I would have that well before now ....
… The Process® would have identified the importance of building defense as a strategy. Or does The Process® zero in on such traits only after the successes of other teams validate the approach?
Or perhaps, given the pratfall that is the Mike Jacobs acquisition, The Process® was only installed during this season.??
we always overvalue our guys
but this seems like a bad trade to me. put callaspo at DH, don’t just throw the baby out with the bath water.
one thing that worries me about DM is this decree that “we’re going after 0-3 guys”…don’t just limit yourself to one particular strategy, unless that strategy is to find undervalued, solid players, period-regardless of from where they come.
i am OK with trying to upgrade the defense, but Callaspo has significant value to this team as a hitter…you can still use him and get a positive result…part of the Royals’ problem is that they have too many complimentary players that get put in positions to fail…with Callaspo you have a guy that can fill in at a number of spots and be the primary DH, a spot that sorely needs upgrading…trade him, but you’ve got to get more than a backup C that can be found for free on the FA market for not much more than the league minimum.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Nov 9, 2009 10:29 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
i'm with you on that
the “rec” star is a little cheesy looking now, btw.
Callaspo seems like a perfect candidate to DH and fill in at 2B/SS/3B when needed. but then where’s Bloomy going to play? (oh wait, he’s starting in RF)
Blank
This hasn't happened yet?
Has it? So far it’s still rumor?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
If we do this, my prediction is
That AJ Ellis will be the starting center fielder in 2010.
by Soria's Unibrow on Nov 10, 2009 12:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, not toolsy enough.
Also, would clog the base paths with all of his walks.
In theory,
I should like this trade. I want more OBA guys. I want a defensive catcher. I’m for trading Callaspo.
But this trade still looks stupid. Somehow, Dayton found a way.
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