Winter Meetings Day Four & Rule 5 Draft Open Thread
by Will McDonald on Dec 10, 2009 7:00 AM EST
in Events
264 comments
And please, everyone remember your Rob Neyer here: its the Rule 5 Draft not the Rule V Draft. Fight against needless roman numeralization.
- Looking ahead to 2010 season, Hillman assesses Royals' potential lineup - KansasCity.com
- Rule 5 And the Waiting Game - Royals Authority
Baseball:
- Red Sox get (rid of) their man - Marc Normandin
- A Case for John Lackey Being Overvalued - Lookout Landing
- A Babe Ruth Trade Rumor at the 1915 Winter Meetings - Inhistoric
- Joe Posnanski " Blog Archive " The first X-Million Player
- The Year the Orioles Outspent the Yankees - Camden Chat
- Does Pudge Rodriguez Know His Role With The Washington Nationals? - Federal Baseball
Grab Bag:
0 recs |
264 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Some good news to start the day
From MLBTR:
Bob Dutton of The KC Star tweets that the Royals will release first baseman Mike Jacobs and lefty reliever John Bale this morning. The moves will give Kansas City two open 40-man roster spots, meaning they can make two picks in the Rule 5 Draft if they choose.
I guess this means we will be active today, and we will find us a lefty.
Let the party start!
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Dayton Moore cutting a guy for whom he's traded cost-controlled talent
It’s an annual tradition
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
That's the negative
The positive is that he actually did get rid of both of these guys.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 10, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yet Luis Hernandez stays
and Disco Hayes is still unprotected.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
So...
that year from Jacobs was productive.
At least the front office is acknowledging that both of these guys are useless for this team.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
I wonder if no one would trade a their rule 5 selection for Jacobs or Bale....?
That would have been nice.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Man you still on Mike Jacobs jock Warden
Get it together man, he SUCKS!!!!!!
If Dayton Moore thinks he sucks he must be really bad because he thinks Buck and Betancourt are good!!!!!!!
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 10, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
That O's article reminds me of Royals fans talking wistfully about 1989 and how they were the big spenders
I do like that O’s fan base, the more I’m around them in this part of the country. And it’s a great stadium to watch baseball in- it just feels like baseball.
What are the ramifications of the two new roster spots?
We can make a Rule 5 selection (or two)…. what else. Why are we opening room?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
that's what I mean...
…who?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
kind of what I was thinking.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Oh
And the Jays signed Joey Gathright.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Better Gathright than Podsednik
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Listen to the Rule 5 LIVE
Click here.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
eastern baby.
Which means it’s now! First pick is just being announced.
It’s Hoffman.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Pittsburg selects John Reynor.... from New Orleans.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Baltimore selects Benjamin Snyder LHP
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I am completely shocked by this
(that he is from the Braves, and KC selected him)
Will Ebners Hit Parade, Pain TV; Channel 32; All the time! (PDT)
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Dec 10, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
You'll be even more shocked when DM petitions the league for a team name change
from the Royals to the West Atlanta Braves/East Seattle Mariners.
by AxDxMx on Dec 10, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The order with roster size.
Pick No. Team Roster size
1 Washington 40
2 Pittsburgh 38
3 Baltimore 39
4 Kansas City 40
5 Cleveland 39
6 Arizona 38
7 NY Mets 39
8 Houston 37
9 San Diego 39
10 Oakland 40
11 Toronto 38
12 Cincinnati 40
13 Chicago White Sox 39
14 Milwaukee 38
15 Chicago Cubs 38
16 Tampa Bay 39
17 Seattle 37
18 Detroit 39
19 Atlanta 40
20 Minnesota 40
21 Texas 38
22 Florida 39
23 San Francisco 39
24 St. Louis 35
25 Colorado 38
26 Philadelphia 33
27 LA Dodgers 33
28 Boston 32
29 LA Angels 38
30 NY Yankees 38
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Important Notes
Yankees got pick 1 in the Bruney trade from the Nationals
Royals down to 38 after this morning
Actually, they never mentioned the Nats/Yanks trade
And they were talking about trades so maybe that first pick stays with the Nats
The way that works
is that the Nats pick the guy the Yankees tell them to pick, then send him along as a PTBNL.
This space for rent.
Your Royals select:
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
LHP Edgar Osuna
From the roster of the Atlanta Braves.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
His player page
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Minors 7 10 4.02 27 26 1 0 0 150.0 156 78 67 11 35 105 0.69 .263
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Pitched in the Carolina and Southern Leagues...
Starting pitcher…
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
From "Talking Chop"
2. Edgar Osuna B/T: L/L Born: 11/25/1987 Ht: 6’1" Wt: 165
The Braves signed the 16 year old Edgar Osuna out of Mexico in 2004. He made his stateside debut in 2006 as an 18 year old in the GCL. In 2007-08 he pitched a combined 180 innings striking out 201 batters while walking only 42. Very impressive numbers for a guy who was 19 and 20 respectively in those leagues. In 2009 he made the jump to Myrtle Beach and then finished the year in AA as a 21 year old. While his strike out rate slipped a bit (25% in Rome to 15% in Mississippi) he more than held his own in 13 starts in the Southern League allowing less hits than innings pitched and keeping his walk rate under 7.0%.
Johns Sickels posted this opening line in his prospect handbook last year in reference to Edgar Osuna: “BZZT!!! BZZT!! SLEEPER ALERT!!”. So I guess he is a fan. Edgar Osuna has a very similar profile to a lot of guys on this list but he is finding more success at a higher level and has been young for his age at nearly every stop. He might actually throw softer than any of the other guys we ranked in the top 10 (reports have him topping out in the high 80s) but he mixes in two plus pitches: a curve and an outstanding change that is rated the best in a system full of good ones. While he is fairly thin most people believe that Edgar probably won’t add any velocity though I think adding 20 lbs couldn’t hurt him, especially for durability reasons.
Osuna will probably get at least another half season in Mississippi to hone his skills against advanced prospects. I would like to see a rebound in his K rate, at least back into the 20% range and to see his flyball tendencies reverse a bit (only 35% at Mississippi). He may not be a frontline starter in the majors but at the very least this guy is going to be a good lefty arm out of the pen and useful swing man.
by Mac'n'Seitz on Dec 10, 2009 9:09 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
He might actually throw softer than any of the other guys we ranked in the top 10 (reports have him topping out in the high 80s) but he mixes in two plus pitches: a curve and an outstanding change that is rated the best in a system full of good ones.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
So he replaces Bale...
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
at a fraction of the cost
potentially pretty solid pick assuming he is not over exposed by hillman.
the good part is Hillman won't ever use him and DM won't let us send him back.
lol
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Can you link that article?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Seems like a nice pick that was below a lot of radars
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Shocking pick coming from this organization
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
To paraphrase Dave Cameron from Fangraphs on Ed Wade
“Its a joke that has gone on far too long.”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Is Diory Hernandez protected?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I see nothing wrong with GMDM using his superior scouting skills to pick up chaff from the Braves system
Actually, I don’t mind this one at all. I’m not a big radar gun guy.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Incomplete, But It
Works.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of pitchers going in Rule V
I see lots of future relievers :)
The way they keep spelling out names
It sounds like this is being done by every team’s junior member of the scouting staff (as they all sound young) and since they have to spell the name out, they’re doing this on a whiteboard in a corner conference room, miles away from the rest of the meeting
Relievers generally seem to be more successful than other picks
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
The key to to find a guy you can hide on your roster
That eliminates most position players.
by AlanSimpson on Dec 10, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Seattle selected Canicoa (sp) teixera
Your next future Royal…
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
We're already down to
23 San Francisco 39
24 St. Louis 35
25 Colorado 38
26 Philadelphia 33
27 LA Dodgers 33
28 Boston 32
29 LA Angels 38
30 NY Yankees 38
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Yeah, I like this draft a lot better
Quick and to the point instead of the stupid NFL draft that takes all day to do 2 rounds
Wouldn't we select Corey Wimberly if he's still there in round 2?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I like him too
He’s like Scott Podsednik, except cheap and young, and can play the infield.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Actually, looks like everyone passes in the 2nd round
So Rule V draft is done
Onto the Minor League Phase
I think it’s time to get out of here and get to work
we're too cheap to pay the $50K?
Come on Dayton!!
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Well, we should do a "how many roster spots are open" game
No use paying $50K if you’re just going to return them
Does the fact the Yankees took an outfielder
show that they don’t think much of Gardner? Seems like this might make it a little easier for us to trade for him.
by KCBear on Dec 10, 2009 9:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It might mean they think someone else wants him
I doubt it says much about Gardner
I wish it did. They did sign Carl Pavano and Kei Igawa
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Disco
Not selected?
"Greinke and the Brain" (R) (C) TM
by SittinByTheFoulPole on Dec 10, 2009 9:20 AM EST reply actions
I can't believe no one wants a 26-year old AAA average soft-tossy righty reliever!
Didn’t they read his awesome interviews with Rany and JoPo! And his wife is so nice! And he has a cool nickname!
Geez, Disco is the saber-nerds version of David Eckstein. Except Eckstein was once a legit MLB player.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
AAA Phase starting... same order as above.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Kansas City takes...
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
our farm system
is obviously way too deep!
by Mac'n'Seitz on Dec 10, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would have felt a hundred times better in my final a hour ago
If I had known Jacobs was gone, oh well.
Reading the Hillman interview, I guess
I now have to root for Aviles to not recover from his surgery very well.
If Aviles is healthy from the get go, then Hillman will look at finding a permanent outfield role for St. Willie.
Sigh.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
righty-righty platoon with Josh Fields in RF!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
DDJ in RF...
Fields in LF!
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Is That Even
Better than Hoagy in RF?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone want to go all Jeff Gillooly on St Willie to save Hillman from himself?
by sterlingice on Dec 10, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Go For Hoagy
In a twofer.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Talking Chop on Osuna
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I was thinking the same thing,
and if it ends up that it appears he has been rushed a bit – there’s always the fake injury, followed by the 20 day rehab period in the minors.
One way or the other, get him thru the season, and then you have a 23 year old lefty prospect going forward in 2011.
As a side note – this might prove to be a good test of Hillman’s skills. Can he ease this guy in, allowing him to develop? Can he actually acknowledge platoon splits, and limit his exposure to RH batters as much as is practical? I only ask, because he hasn’t shown this ability as a manager yet.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Just read this morning brushing up on my Rule 5 rules...
To prevent the abuse of the Rule 5 draft, the rule also states that the draftee must be active for at least 90 days. This keeps teams from drafting players, then placing them on the disabled list for the majority of the season. For example, if a Rule 5 draftee was only active for 67 days in his first season with his new club, he must be active for an additional 23 games in his second season to satisfy the Rule 5 requirements
by brandonh981 on Dec 10, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
copied from wikipedia...
so it absolutely has to be true, right?
by brandonh981 on Dec 10, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
we even opened a roster spot for him...
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I think that was for Noelle
I hope it was for Noelle.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 10, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
we've got some others we could cut off the roster you know...
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
i seriously don't understand
why some people are still even fans of this team. if every move is going to be met with disdain and ridicule regardless of the actual worth of the move, i mean what’s the point? why do it to yourself?
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 11:27 AM EST reply actions
I don't know either..
What are we talking about?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Seriously
What’s happening? I don’t think I’ve seen even a slightly negative comment about Osuna on any thread this morning. I think the consensus on a Kendall signing is that it won’t necessarily be a negative as long as he ends up costing less than Buck.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
It's not this move per se
but the assumption that somehow the Royals are going to fuck this up or make another move that counteracts it.
the rule 5 pick is one thing, but releasing Jacobs and Bale were the correct moves. obviously it was a mistake to trade for jacobs, why are we still beating that dead horse? all the guy can do is learn from his mistakes and get better. maybe i’m just overreacting.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
His track record of learning is great
That’s how we know that the Kendall rumors are Lies!
by kcbottom9th on Dec 10, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I mean it's not like we should expect bad moves from Dayton's track record
He did bring us the awesome and incomparable Yunieski Betancourt.
yeah, we've never seen dayton screw something up.
This is like telling us we shouldn’t expect girls #11-14 to come out saying they’ve slept with Tiger. Had it just been girl #1, I’d agree, but once we get to 10-11, I start expecting more. Call me crazy.
he's 33
he’s been rich and famous since … 19?
it will only end when each new story gets its own media coverage
by Will McDonald on Dec 10, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'm waiting for the coffee table book
Maybe by Christmas 2010? Would make a great gift for the man who has everything.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
He has everything but happiness
which he is searching for. Maybe he needs to talk to GMDM and Trey.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Good work you are doing! Someone has to defend Dayton!
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Absolutely
and, did you know that DAYTON TRADED FOR MIKE JACOBS? wow, I can’t believe he did that! let’s analyze whether or not it was a good move. I mean, it was only a year ago, but let’s continue talking about it.
you’re right. Dayton is an absolute moron. he knows less than nothing about baseball and every move he makes, even the rumors that others throw out there about him, are bad and his fault.
actually, we should start blaming him for the Chiefs’ problems as well.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
i don't get it
GMDM has made some dumb moves… some might call them “disasters”… but i really don’t get how he’s often portrayed as a f*cking moron. He doesn’t use readily available advanced statistics to evaluate talent… I get it… that’s not very smart. But that doesn’t mean he’s a moron. Yeah, Yuni sucks. Jacobs sucked… we get it. It’s not the end of the world. Could we make better decisions? Perhaps. I just get tired of the contempt for GMDM… contempt that leads to vitriol.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Farnsworth sucks. Anderson is terrible in CF
The fact that he doesn’t use advanced statistics is exactly the point.
Giving up prospects and decent amounts of money for guys like Yuni and Farnsworth was moronic. Jacobs sucked and to me wasn’t a crippler because all they had to give up was Nunez. To me giving up many years of RamRam for basically at best two years of Coco Crisp when KC could’ve got Felix Pie someone else for alot less was flat dumb.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
I would.
You do realize Crisp was out well before the All Star break, right?
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Yeah. 49 games played.
However, when making that deal, and seeing Crisp’s track record of (I believe) no injuries and possible .750-.800 OPS in CF with tremendous defense…I would rather have Crisp.
Course, I’m also not on any sort of bandwagon on Pie. I think he’s just another overly-hyped former Cubs prospect.
Pie might be, I don't know enough about him. But I do trust some of the guys here that want him.
But 105 games, 145, 118, and 49. Crisp isn’t exactly an ironman. Though I do agree, he had a great start this year.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Crisp's track record was full of injuries
While there was a lot to like about his defense, and his bat was ok for a CFer, one has to expect that a player who loses significant time to injuries almost every season is going to continue to do so. Being injury-prone is a “skill” as important in evaluating a player as hitting, defense or cost.
The immoderate moderator
When we can predict the bad moves exactly because they are bad, that says a lot
This offseason has been great so far. Dayton may finally understand the way that other clubs value talent. What’s was really truly frightening about how he was going about building teams is that he basically tried to recreate a Seattle Mariners team that was terrible.
Also, only picking former players from 2 teams is the surest way to limit your success. Is there any specific reason these 2 teams have the best available talent for DM to choose from? I mean, if the Royals only signed players from Missouri they’d be terrible simply because all the other teams will be competing against them for those players, while the Royals do not compete in the other teams geographical areas. It just doesn’t make sense. I realize DM hasn’t only picked up former Braves and Mariners, but they have been a laughable chunk.
The fact that there’s only a couple of you that object to this treatment of DM says to me that most of this site agrees with it. He’s slowly building trust this offseason, but I fear a Jason Kendall deal will blow that out of the water.
I'm not so sure the Chiefs are his fault yet,
they haven’t signed many former Mariners.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Why not let his actions do the defending?
That’s what I don’t get about the people who always try to stick up for him, they always want to say how he is learning or that move wasn’t that bad. Just let his actions speak.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
I'm fine with his actions speaking for... whatever
i don’t understand the contempt. Why hate someone that much? What joy does it bring shit on someone’s head?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
what joy does it bring TO shit on someone's head?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I don't hate GMDM at all, don't know the guy.
I just don’t know why I’m supposed to blindly support the guy…because I’m a fan of the team? I was a fan before he got here and I’ll be a fan after he leaves.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
i'm not asking for support...
just an end to the apparent contempt that sprouts up fairly often.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough,
and I am somewhat encouraged by the offseason to this point. Just hope it’s not dumb luck that some of these things seem to be working out in the Royals favor.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Dec 10, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
still taking shots.
Thanks Andy Petite.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Sorry, that's just being honest.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Dissent is no longer patriotic
YOU HAVE TO LOVE YOUR LEADERS! THEY ARE INFALLIBLE GODS FROM THE HEAVENS!!
Late response to this idea...
I’ve been a supporter of DM since the beginning and remained a supporter long after it was clear that his idea of the best way to build a winning baseball team differs from my own. Here’s why I’m so cynical and thus prone to shitting on every move he makes or might potentially make: if the Royals are to succeed, they must have much better scouting and development than our competitors. They don’t have a financial advantage, and they don’t have an analytic advantage, so they have to make up for those disadvantages with superior scouting and development. They’ve said it themselves.
Here’s what happened to make me a cynic: Farnsworth, Betancourt, Hochevar, Mous, Hosmer, Crow. The Farnsworth and Betancourt moves were indefensible from any angle. Horrible. They make me sad. The other four are Dayton Moore’s four first round picks, who share with countless other current and former Royals the dubious distinction of having their value peak on the day they become Royals.
I do think that the Royals will improve. The front office has an impressive collection of talent. I have faith that the Royals can turn into the Twins, but it’s going to take a few years, and in the meantime, DM will continue to make headscratching moves at the ML level.
by billexgordler on Dec 10, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Couldn't the "extra" roster spot
be for the Cuban we are in the process of signing? If I recall correctly it was a major league deal so he would have to be added to the 40 man roster.
Not done yet...
The contract is contingent upon Arguelles passing a physical. He remained in the Dominican Republic on Saturday and was expected to fly to Kansas City this week. The Royals still must clear a spot on their 40-man roster to make room for Arguelles.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I pity any person who has to leave the Dominican Republic this week to come to Kansas City.
It is really f***ing cold here.
about 20 degrees warmer than when I walked to my truck this morning.
That was awful.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Yes, but it feels like 13.
And that’s the high for the day. My next car is definitely going to have a remote starter.
For $7 million, I would jump into the Arctic sea buck naked
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
If transportation was provided and medical care if I became a block of ice..
I’d do it for 500K.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I think I'd need $3 million
I mean, I am risking my life
by Will McDonald on Dec 10, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Zack Greinke would do it for free
Just throw some Chipotle out there, he could never let that go to waste!
I suppose Billy Butler might do it for a Baconater, but it’s not as fun, seeing as how he has more natural protection than Greinke. :) I kid. If this offseason is like last year’s Billy could be looking pretty svelte by ST.
I'll do it for 19,998, but I need a player option or two tacked onto the end
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
There Will Be
Serious shrinkage.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
but i heard the orioles are going to make a better offer
so you'd better bid higher or add more years
Blank
He could still retire in Kansas City
as a T-Bone
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 10, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Orlando Merced?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I am offended at the vitriol
toward Dayton Moore implied in this statement.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 5:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jacobs will get signed.
Where to though? Mets?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
seems like a decent, low-priced (assumedly) option for an NL team that wants a lefty-pinch hitter on the bench, even if they just keep him in AAA and bring him up in case of injuries.
Blank
I was just talking to a guy at work about it
If you need a lefty pop off the bench to hit against righties- you could do a lot worse.
He’s definitely not a starting player and shouldn’t be given a glove. Ever. But he could have value for the right team.
Have we heard any more on this?
The Royals have traded infielder Tug Hulett(notes) to the Boston Red Sox for cash or a player to be named.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Whats Cash's OBP?
The Original member of the Ndamukong Suh bandwagon
by averagegatsby on Dec 10, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
So far,
I would say this offseason has gone well. GMDM has made numerous decent/good moves, but I’m dying to see him make a slightly more notable one, aka, sign a catcher, trade for an OF, etc. I’m scared what it might be, but I really want to know if he might be learning, or if its just same old, same old.
The actual moves have been quite good
The rumors have been troubling. But luckily they are just absolute lies.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Yo i'm liking this dude because he's replacing Jacobs and Bale!
God those guys fucking blow and its although Osuna had nothing to do with that I like the combo.
This guy is already our best left reliever. How sad is that!
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 10, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions
Hey now
Dick Kaegel says lefty Dusty Hughes is one of our “top prospects”!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Opposing Hitters Agree
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 10, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
After reading BA's info on Osuna
I kinda like the pick. A lefty version of Soria is worth a shot. His splits versus lefties are actually worse so probably not worth much as a situational reliever.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
With the "fringe" velocity, I am not sure of the comparison to Soria
Reverse splits are not uncommon for pitchers with the good changeup/questionable fastball skillset. He probably has a limited upside, but soft-tossing lefties with good command, an effective changeup to neutralize to right-handed hitters, and a good curve can be useful.
Would a reverse-split be something that might help him knowing the way Trey has used LOOGY's in the past?
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
It helps the team because Hillman doesn't use relievers as LOOGY's or ROOGY's
The immoderate moderator
Pretty much what I was asking,
if he was a traditional LOOGY (someone like Gobble), that would be a bad toy for Trey. But if he is solid against righty’s, I really like it.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Yeah, Hillman needs generalists, not specialists
And it appears that Osuna is more of a generalist.
The immoderate moderator
Potential decent 6th man in the pen this year
With pretty good upside as a MLB reliever after that. His offspeed stuff is so good that he isn’t just a LOOGY.
The immoderate moderator
not much room for error
With velocity that low though. Still, not a bad gamble.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
A fastball in the mid-to-high 80's isn't "that low" to me
Especially when he’s got a very good breaking ball and change
The immoderate moderator
What's Zito's velocity?
And what was Glavines?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
The scouting reports I've read
Have his fastball at between 82-86.
http://braves.scout.com/2/725887.html
John Sickels seems to agree that his fastball isn’t all that fast.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/12/10/1194735/rule-5-draft-impressions
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
That is pretty low
If his fastball usually sits around 84, that’s pretty darn low. But if he can consistently be accurate with it, I think it can effectively set up his curve and change (the out pitches) even in the majors. But you’re right about the little room for error.
The immoderate moderator
Yea, don't get me wrong
There are more than a few crafty lefties who have made a long MLB career with a 85 mph fastball.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Crafty lefties with slow fastballs?
Why can’t submarine righties with sub-80 fastballs be considered crafty?
Osuna was in the Braves organization
…which means Dayton was obsessed with him, which means he sucks. Wait, let me tweak that. Osuna was in the Braves organization, which means Dayton was obsessed with him, which means DM chose him over other, better alternatives to pick this Brave. Therefore, I hate Osuna already and I hate Dayton more even more.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2009 2:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's good to see Moore showing any sign that he's not entirely wedded to the "power pitcher" idea
The immoderate moderator
because if there is a contradiction the "power pitchers will be successful" idea
Farnsworth is it
Blank
not true !
all power pitchers are successful except farnsworth!
Look at MacDougal & Colt Griffin!
Wait, nevermind.
who would you have taken?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
does not compute
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
whatever will help us lure Pods here
or, whoever Bloomquist recommends
by Will McDonald on Dec 10, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
NYRoyal
Who would you have taken? And why? Just want to see what you think.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I didn't do any research on the available.
So I have no comment.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I didn't do any research
I did only the most cursory reading of possible draftees before the draft. Personally, unless a team sees a position player with really high upside, I like the idea of taking a pitcher. Unless a team has a bullpen with really high quality depth, there’s always room for a Rule 5 guy as the 6th/7th reliever. From what I’ve read, Osuna looks like a good choice. The fastball is meh, but he has done very well with the curve and change. And one very good pitch can be enough to make a guy an effective reliever.
The immoderate moderator
OT - Bradley perhaps being traded to Tampa Bay
from twitter
Cubs officials say they are close to trading OF Milton Bradley, and all indications are that he’ll be going to Tampa Bay.
-BNightengale
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 10, 2009 2:49 PM EST reply actions
then who do we trade Meche for?
Fukudome or Theriot? or do we package Melville, Montgomery, Butler, and Callaspo for Micah Hoffpaur, Theriot, and Kevin Gregg?
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
only if we also throw in Gordon
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
you undervalue Meche.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
ok, about the money.
we’re not going to spend his 12 million elsewhere this year. and we need another good pitcher. why do you care about how glass spends it? You want a free agent next year, trade him at the deadline this year. If he’s decent, a contender will pick up his salary, if nothing else, not us eating part of it like has been suggested. The only situation I see where trading him now goes well for us is if he can’t pitch the next two years. Otherwise, why would we eat his salary? Unless you are getting players of higher WAR or w/e stat you want to use back, what do you care how Glass spends his money? And even more to the point, compared to how GMDM likes to spend it, are you sure you don’t want the low risk/reward Meche instead of the alternative?
thats kind of rambling.
my point is, its not like the minute you get rid of him, boom! you get 12 million in your pocket to spend. I just don’t think that is how Glass does things, based on past observations. And its not 12 million if you eat part of the salary.
not to speak for him
but i’m assuming he’s saying from purely a numerical point of view, if each win is worth 6 million let’s say, and we’re paying 12 million to meche and he provides 2 wins, there’s no surplus value. so, theoretically in that case we could trade him for a player that costs $1 million but provides .16 WAR and from a surplus value perspective we’re no better or worse off.
that gave me a thought-if you’re comparing a trade that includes major leaguers and minor leaguers, obviously the minor leaguers don’t have comparable stats so maybe you can estimate what the player’s future WAR will be. but, does anybody know if these projected WARs are then discounted to take into account the time value of money?
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but in reverse i guess
so we trade meche. 8 WAR over the two years, $24 million owed, a win is worth $4 million. So, he has surplus value of $8 million (2 WAR).
We trade him for an A-Ball prospect who is projected to provide surplus value of $48 million (12 WAR) over a 6 year period starting 2 years from now.
So, at first blush, we win the trade because we get 12 WAR for 2 WAR. However, can we take into account the fact that the 12 WAR is not only spread over 6 years (club control) but does not even start until 2 years from now.
So, the last year of WAR (2017 in this example) is worth 2 WAR (assume he earns 2 WAR per year for 6 years of club control) in 2017, but shouldn’t it be discounted back to present value? Am I totally thinking about this wrong?
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
I guess you could think about it a number of ways
it ends up being the same either way
by Will McDonald on Dec 10, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
In the statistics, there's no discounting (as far as I've ever heard), but each team has
its own preferences and handles the discounting accordingly.
Boston, for instance, is more concerned about winning in the near term, so like you say, they would discount future production more heavily. Tampa Bay, on the other hand, needs to maximize the value they get, whether it’s current or future, so they’re more likely to discount future production less. Then there are philosophies like trying to get a bunch of productive players all at once and then rebuild, so in that case, it’s not just present vs. future discounting, it’s in-a-certain-window vs. not-in-a-certain-window discounting.
Blank
No you're not wrong.
That’s a lot like what I do in my job, and I would imagine an MLB team that knows what they are doing does this.
Just doing some simple discounting at 7% per year
You get Meche’s discounted WAR (dWAR) at 7.77 over 2 years assuming a 4.5 and a 3.5 year.
The Prospect’s value is 8.36 dWAR assuming .5,1,1.5,2.5,3,3.5 years from 2012 to 2017.
I misread your post a bit
I did 8 WAR vs 12 WAR, while I guess you were looking at surplus value.
So rerunning it for surplus, Meche ends up at 3.90 dWAR. We’d have to kick in some money in that trade scenario, or another player.
This means WAR?
I’m fairly unfamiliar with the new metrics (no my name is not Dayton ) But I believe WAR is Wins above replacement? meaning the additional wins for a season that a certain player is expected to add.
This is a very interesting concept but it seems it is still incomplete. Wins have a realitve value depending on your overall team. This of course (should be) figured into payroll decisions as well.
For the Royals the value of 4 additional wins is essentially zero. The best case is the difference between 3rd vs 4th, or 4th vs 5th place. Actually this can be detrimental when the next year’s draft comes up.
For a team such as Boston the value of 4 additional wins can mean everything. The difference between winning the division and sitting at home in October. Or a top seed vs bottom seed.
All things being equal, you want the higher win guy instead of the low win guy. But this really doesn’t translate directly to economics.
The marginal value of a win does change
As has been studied and written by sabermetricians much more gifted than I, the marginal value of a win does change with the number of wins of his team. 1 WAR that takes a team from 89 wins to 90 is worth more than a win that takes a team from 63 wins to 64. But that does not mean that if you are out of contention, all wins are meaningless, and therefore all analysis of player value by such a team is irrelevant. Teams like the Royals and Pirates need to make smart moves to build a contending team. And such moves require wise, comprehensive analysis of player value including both costs and wins added.
The immoderate moderator
thanks
I would also assume that for a contending team (that can also buy top free agents) present value vs future value should be a big deal. If I am Cashman or Epstein I should be eager to give up an expected 2 wins in 2011 & 2012 for 1 win in 2010.
If I am Dayton I SHOULD be jumping at the chance to make that happen. If it saves me $10MM that I can use toward another FA those years then even better.
True
That concept is generally described in common parlance as a “win now” strategy vs. a “rebuilding” strategy. When your team sucks and isn’t likely to compete for a few years, then short-term improvements aren’t worth much. But if you’ve got a chance to go over the top in the short-term, then those extra wins are very valuable and worth extra cost.
The immoderate moderator
What you two are discussing is an accounting principal, essentially
Present Value.
It is not a bad way to look at a trade, assuming one can estimate the future value of a prospect, along with estimating a correct discount %.
In the case of a baseball team, the discount % should essentially equal what the owner could make on the money if he invested it elsewhere. 7% seems fair. (I would say a bit conservative, even, except for the current economy).
Of course, the real art to all of this is to be good at estimating the future value of the prospect. (his WAR estimate). Obviously, that can vary greatly; hence, the result of this type of trade can vary greatly as well. That’s why people often refer to that type of trade as a high risk, high reward trade.
I guarantee front offices use this analysis in some form or another. Let’s hope even the Royals at least understand the concept. They probably do -their errors seem to be on valuating and projecting production – in other words, the estimates of future WAR.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Heh... I know it's called Present Value
Yes, the tough part comes into projecting the future production of an A ball player. That’s really where the analysis is make or break. Getting PV is just a simple formula.
I would imagine that the trade would be looked at from a slightly different perspective. You’d probably find the break even point on the prospect and then if he outperforms that, pull the trigger, if not, add more to the trade. I suppose it probably depends on the team’s value for a marginal win as well like NY said. A marginal win for the Royals in 2012 is far more valuable than a marginal win this year as they m ight be competitive by then.
sounds like you are in either
accounting, banking, or investment management?
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
that was directed to AxDxMx
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
that's OK, I am in accounting
a CPA. I just wondered if teams would be able to apply this to players and if in fact they do.
I think intuitively they all do it (win now vs. rebuild) but wonder to what extent they try to capture what the actual value given vs. gotten is.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Something like that
A little bit of accounting, a little bit of actuarial science. I basically tell a company what their liability is to their retirees on medical insurance that they owe to them in the future. It’s actually kinda scary how expensive insurance is getting for some of these companies.
I don't want to start a political discussion
but I am curious to know what you see as the best way to keep health care costs from rising so fast. Depending who you ask its almost always a) baby boomers b) douchebag insurance companies or c) just blame the government. Everything I read seems to be politically motivated, so I was just wondering what someone with experience in the field actually thought about it.
Basically I think it will take a Wal-Mart approach to medicine
and a more expensive is not necessarily better approach. Though my holy grail would be for patients to pay for outcomes and not necessarily just service, but that gets complicated to implement when your whole system is based on service. The way companies control costs right now is by scaling back benefits, and in my world, some of them just get rid of the retirement benefit, so I’m left calculating their old employees who get grandfathered into the benefit. I don’t know that there is a best approach though. I think the current attempt isn’t likely to bring costs down for one simple reason. If you increase access, but leave the supply of doctors unchanged, suddenly there is a higher demand for the same supply. That has always led to higher prices. I don’t understand how the government thinks that will change. At least they are trying something I suppose. If it doesn’t work we can always try something else, but I’d honestly be surprised if it passed.
That makes sense
It seems like most logical long-term fixes will take a long time to solve the problem. We just waited until we didn’t have a lot of time to try and fix it. Do you think government subsidies for medical students would be effective? It seems like eliminating doctors’ student loans and emphasizing stuff like physician assistant schools would help.
That might help, but honestly it would probably just mean more
incompetent doctors. I mean, doctors already make a pretty good living. I guess the real issue is the specialists. You can make a lot more money specializing in one area instead of being a general practitioner so that’s the route a lot of people go. Plus, malpractice insurance is a killer. The incompetent doctors raise costs for everyone, and that gets passed on to the patients.
That’s just kind of what I’ve picked up reading on the internet. All I really see is costs going up and benefits down in my work.
I don't want to speak for anyone else, but for me:
So, at first blush, we win the trade because we get 12 WAR for 2 WAR. However, can we take into account the fact that the 12 WAR is not only spread over 6 years (club control) but does not even start until 2 years from now.
I take the wins starting two years from now simply because that is hopefully when the Royals are contending for the division title. 4 more wins this year likely moves the team from 72 wins to 76. I’ll take the wins when they move the team from 86 to 88.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
But the $11M is already spent
And any team we trade him to probably wants us to eat some of his salary.
Or, again, I think I’d rather just wait until July and hope his arm isn’t shot. I know that’s a bit of a long shot with this crew but we do have a new head trainer. I think he has a lot more value then. Hell, it’s a lot better than “hand me the .16 WAR guy now!”
That's basically what I'm talking about
My quick math (and estimation of each player’s value) goes like this:
Theriot = 3 years of team control, conservatively 9 WAR over that period, costing an estimated $20M
Meche = 2 years of team control, liberally 7 WAR, at a cost of $24M
With Theriot, you save money, get more production, you get an extra year and you fill a huge hole (Yuni).
And I think significant savings in this year’s payroll (which this would help facilitate) would increase the likelihood that Glass ok’s more spending in 2011 and beyond on payroll, as well as 2010 spending on the draft, international FA’s, etc.
The immoderate moderator
Oh, and the value of these two players with respect to the dollar value of WAR
The dollar value of each 1 WAR is estimated in the $4.5-5M range. So let’s say $4.75M per WAR.
Theriot (3 years), est. 9 WAR, est. salary of $20M, real value $42.75M, or a surplus of $22.75M
Meche (2 years), est. 3.5 WAR, salary of $24M, real value of $16.625M, or a deficit of $7.375M
Theriot is the better value BY FAR. This, of course, is why the Cubs would never do such a trade.
The immoderate moderator
that's very interesting
I didn’t know Theriot was that valuable. I also think it would be very interesting to see the average fans’ reaction to such a move. Cubs fans would probably love it and DM would get absolutely ROASTED by the media and the average Joe.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 10, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps so
But of course DM is getting roasted by the fans right now. Because the team just keeps losing, the fans (smart and dumb alike) essentially hate him. The only way he’s going to overcome that is by increasing wins. So he needs to do smart things which may look stupid to the average fan. Take that short-term lambasting and enjoy the long-term love that would come from getting the team more wins.
As far as the media goes, the reaction would be mixed. The KC Star reporters would be noncommittal, because that’s what they do. JoPo would like it. Whitlock would be silent. Rany would love it. Only the ignorati in sports talk radio would really complain about it, and I think their complaints would be only moderate.
The immoderate moderator
Jayson Stark
mentions that Farnsworth is being shopped
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/stark-on-halladay.html
Holy Shit!!!...Peterson resigned...Am I dead?...Is This Heaven?
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Dec 10, 2009 8:06 PM EST reply actions
let the bidding war begin!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 10, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
I am also shopping a pair of briefs I've had since 1997
There are more holes than thread at this point, but I am willing to part with them for the right price.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Dec 10, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
:D
I’m smiling at the jokes. No, I don’t want the briefs.
If some team is desperate for a solid reliever
Farnsworth isn’t the worst choice out there.
“Clutch” aside, he pitched pretty well in 2009. He’s not worth his salary, but he isn’t a million miles off.
Really?
Fangraphs has him at 0.7 WAR for ’09. $3m.
He earns, what, $4.5m?
by kcbottom9th on Dec 10, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
If one could expect him to be a 0.7 WAR player in 2010, he'd be worth $3M
But I don’t think one can expect that. Here are his most recent years:
2007 -0.1 WAR, -$0.4M
2008 -0.5 WAR, -$2.3M
2009 0.7 WAR, $3.0M
Given what I’ve seen of Farnsworth in 2009 and what I know about the effects of age on baseball players, I’m not inclinced to think that 2007 and 2008 were flukes and 2009 is the real deal. I think the above numbers (and what we can see with our own eyes about Farnsy) show that Farnsy is likely going to be no more than a little above replacement level in 2010. And, for instance, a 0.2 WAR pitcher is worth about $1M.
The immoderate moderator
If I were DM,
I’d take a Grade C prospect, and offer to pay about 2 or 2.5m of his salary, just to free up some cash.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Yes, that would be a net positive for the team
And that’s probably about the only way he could be traded.
The immoderate moderator
Oh, please
please let some other GM out there be criminally stupid enough to bargain for Farnsworth.
Man, we can't get a break as fans
from MLBTR:
Red Sox Agree To Send Lowell To Rangers
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 10, 2009 at 9:49pm CST]
9:49pm: The Red Sox will pay $9MM of Lowell’s salary, with the Royals paying the remaining $3MM, according to Bradford.
Even when we’re not in a deal, we have to fork over money
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Royals Review
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
