Guess. No, really, guess.
Sigh.
Probably a post coming on this at FanGraphs later tonight or tomorrow morning.
T the P
9 months ago
Matt Klaassen
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Good thing we locked in that second year
just in case he breaks out of his slump of slugging .315 in his last 1500 plate appearances
I'm sorry guys, but this one has me questioning
my fanhood. I used to really love everything about Royals baseball, but Jason Kendall may push me to the brink. This move is 100% stupid. Moore is a complete fucking moron. There is no coming back from signing Kendall to two year deal. I’m going to start it, I guess. Fire Dayton Moore!!!!!
Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.
by royaldaddy on Dec 11, 2009 6:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I can't get that worked up about this deal
No, I don’t like it, but it doesn’t set the franchise back AT ALL like prior bad deals, by GMDM & others.
2 Years of Below Average Kendall, who, contrary to Sabermetric thinking DOES bring intangibles to his team in the way of the veteran presence, leadership, yadayadayada for the same price (more or less) of 1 year of John Buck’s Avg to Above Avg bat & his below average defense isn’t the worst thing ever.
I’m on record as wanting to have waited to see if Dioner Navarro got DFA’d by the Rays & sign him. I still wish that was what happened, and I am in no way HAPPY about the Kendall deal, I’m just not any closer to jumping off a cliff because of it.
If we release Brayan Pena, and keep John Buck, I may be over the cliff
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Dec 11, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It's a horrible use of about $3 million ....
They likely could have filled the spot just as capably with a 2-yr $3 million alternative (or less).
Spending the money on Kendall is also a decision to not spend the money elsewhere. For example, that’s money that could have been used to grab a player in the free agent draft who falls due to signability or to sweeten the pot for an international free agent.
This is simply not the wisest thing for the club to do with that money. And with a small market it’s even more stupid, because every discretionary bet is even more important when you’re playing with a smaller stack of chips.
by Steve Nelson on Dec 11, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not sure there is a reason to care about this move
Olivo sucks, Buck sucks, Kendall sucks. Atleast he got on base in previous years.
I think they are saving money by releasing Jacobs, Bale, Buck, Olivo,
hopefully Bannister is next! to NY for Gardner
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Total savings on Jacobs, Bale, Buck, and Olivo is $9 million
By guaranteeing Kendall $6 million, the Royals just flushed two thirds of that savings away for a guy no better than what they could get for essentially the league minimum.
The KC Star says 4 million
Ivan Rodriguez sucks too and got more. Catchers get paid more money. Anyone we got would have sucked.
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
No, catchers in fact make less than the other position players if you look at actual salaries
There are two problems here. First, for the same cost, there were better catchers available — the Rays got a much better player for a PTBNL and will likely non-tender a better catcher than Kendall.
Second, even if all catchers sucked, why pay $4 million when the same guy is available for $400,000?
Hint, the answer is stupidity.
by Gopherballs on Dec 11, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Who are you saying they're going to non-tender?
Navarro? Cause I don’t know about ulnar nerve elbow surgery but it doesn’t sound like a sure thing. He’s too high risk to be our everyday catcher.
The Royals need one solid option at Catcher. I’m all for letting Pena win the job or finding a diamond in the rough, but trading for anyone wouldn’t be smart in my opinion.
Think of it this way. Last year we paid over 6 million to our catchers. This year, 3.5
You're right.
And paying both of those guys made zero sense. That was covered last spring.
However, that doesn’t mean this move is any better.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
I'm still waiting for a name on who we should have signed instead
We have to go into spring training with one guy who has proven to be capable of catching more than 80 MLB games.
Just keep Buck
For 500k more. He is a better player than Jason Kendall.
Or, they should have just kept Olivo for the same money. His defense would still suck but his bat still has enough life in it that a national holiday isn’t called when it gets an XBH, unlike Kendall.
by kcbottom9th on Dec 12, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Where have you been?
Prospective catchers have been extensively discussed here since the All-Star break.
The Rays got Kelly Shoppach for a player to be named later, and he will get paid less than Kendall. Greg Zaun signed for one year and $2 million. Brian Schneider signed for two years and $2.7 million. Ramon Castro is a better hitter and defender and will sign for $1 million or so (if he can get a major league deal). George Kotteras was a waiver claim. Ryan Doumit and Chris Snyder are being shopped at a discount in cost-cutting moves even though their salaries are reasonable given their expected performance. The Royals could re-sign John Buck at a lower salary after non-tendering him. All of these guys are projected to substantially outperform Kendall.
Here is a partial list of additional free agent (or soon-to-be non-tendered) catchers who project to outperform Kendall in 2010. (Courtesy of CHONE)
Dioneer Navarro
Rod Barajas
Miguel Olivo
Benjie Molina
Josh Bard
Yorvit Torrealba
Matt Treanor
This is not even getting into the young catchers who might be available in trade at a modest cost like JR Towles, Dusty Ryan, or even Shawn Riggans.
Finding a catcher better than Kendall (and maybe even less expensive) is really not that hard.
by Gopherballs on Dec 12, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm sorry Gopherballs
but some fans you just can’t educate.
HOW’S THAT FOR MOORE/HILLMAN ARROGANCE BITCHES!!!!!!!!
But, the point is not if they would suck.
The point is how much we’re paying them to suck and the two freakin years we’re paying them to suck for.
Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.
by royaldaddy on Dec 11, 2009 7:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Should we care about stupid moves that overpay a player for too many years?
Yes, that is exactly what we should care about.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not saying don't care about it
I’m saying don’t let this be the move that pushes you (collectively, not you personally) over the edge
BOOM! ROASTED!
It was a reply to Gobble4cyoung
This move alone shouldn’t change anyone’s opinion of DM or of this team. I don’t think anyone thinks this is a huge deal in and of itself. It’s just a stupid move. More accurately it is yet another stupid move. And that is exactly what is pissing people off. We want the team to improve. We want any sign that Dayton Moore is starting to “get it.” Instead, we get yet another piece of failure.
The immoderate moderator
I couldn't tell if it was JG or me
you were responding to, & I didn’t do the line your mouse up w/ the edge & scroll down thingy to check.
I definitely agree that the culmination of GMDM’s moves are getting worse (after taking a slight uptick in every other ‘09-’10 offseason move other than this one IMO)
BOOM! ROASTED!
Do we have a collection
of fan resignations somewhere? That would be an interesting project. More interesting than this offseason.
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
How much more proof is needed that Dayton is expanding his thinking ...
… Clearly he’s realized that signing washed up ex-Mariners and ex-Braves is not a winning strategy. So now he’s changed his perspective to include washed up players from any team.
I'm going to stick my kneck out
And confidently predict that Kendall is getting more per year than Buck will as a Free Agent.
by kcbottom9th on Dec 11, 2009 6:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
From The Comments
According to FanGraphs, Betancourt was the worst player in baseball last year with a value of -$9.6 million.
The worst regular catcher? None other than Jason Kendall at $1.2 million.
This must be like Christmas, the 4th of July and his birthday for GMDM.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
Doesn't really
matter all that much. We won’t win this year or next year…..takes away from Pena’s playing time, but honestly who cares. We aren’t winning anytime soon.
OK that's Bad
I was expecting 2/$5…2/$6 is the exact same deal that Pudge got…
Still not a “Franchise Setting Back Deal” though
BOOM! ROASTED!
Not a killer; just yet another bad move
And yet another piece of evidence that The Process, and Dayton Moore are fatally flawed.
The immoderate moderator
I'm glad that the terrible deals are slowly becoming lower in dollar value
now if we could only get them to stop happening completely.
Baby steps, I guess…
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
or addition by less addition
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
you're the math guy
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 12, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
by itself, it doesn't set the franchise back any more than
Gload’s 2 year contract
Bloomquist’s 2-year contract
Farnsworth’s 2-year contract
Mike Jacobs arbitration award
nearly two years of Tony Pena, Jr.
J.P. Howell for Joey Gathright
$1.5M for Horacio Ramirez
2/8 for Ron Mahay
etc.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
2 for 6 million is ridiculous.
Wow, how can these keep happening from a MLB GM?
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Not that
big of a deal really. Everyone just step away from the cliff.
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
No, it isn't. Buy why two years?
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Yeah
i don’t quite understand that, but what can you do…….now we just have to root for him for 2 years, cause no matter what happens i will never stop loving this team any less.
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this quote from the official site
he once went 961 consecutive at-bats without a dinger until he connected on May 31, 2006, at Oakland against the Royals’ Joel Peralta.
Somehow, I knew before I got to the end of that sentence that his homerless streak would have ended against us….
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Dec 11, 2009 6:58 PM EST reply actions
Dayton's trying to catch lightning in a bottle
Hopefully Kendall performs as if he is playing against the Royals when he’s at Kauffman.
Dear Dayton Moore
The White Sox already won in 2005; it’s too late for us.
Actually, Kendall’s offense in ’05 was already gone, .271/.345/.321. OPS? .666 of course!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
Damn Phil,
if you had e-mailed Dayton with that devil sign of an OPS this wouldn’t have happened! I blame Alaska.
by hunter s. royal on Dec 11, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Miguel Olivo never walked and you complained
All Jason Kendall does is walk and you still complain.
Malcontent.
by Gopherballs on Dec 11, 2009 7:14 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Man its not like we had a shot at Wieters or anything
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 7:15 PM EST reply actions
So if we don't get a star, then it doesn't matter how much we overpay for a poor player?
I have to disagree with that kind of analysis.
The immoderate moderator
um... pretty sure complete sarcasm
though he didn’t use the font
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 12, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
I'm with NYRoyal
He’s was suggesting there was no good young catcher available, so signing a crap old one is OK.
we need a resolution to this!
someone make a poll or something. i am anxiously awaiting what he meant.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 12, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
We'll cover up the names
Of old, crappy baseball players on Dayton’s dart board and replace them with the two options to this conundrum and then get him to fling shit and see where it sticks.
hahahahhah
I’m really that popular. I’m sure my answer will not be anything special. I was making fun of Moore’s drafting of Moustakas over Wieters
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 12, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Front runner for...
least favorite Royal of 2010….Jason Kendell. This is a terrible, terrible sign. DM couldn’t wait to see what players were non-tendered first? Had to set the market AGAIN (to be fair..I guess the Nats did with Ivan). I just don’t understand why you go from a below average catcher (Olivio, Buck..take your pick) to a well below average catcher (offensively..I have no idea about defense..but neither does DM given his other moves) that is declining further. Makes no sense. Anybody who thought this move was a good idea should be fired. FIRED I say. If I bother wasting my money to go to games, I WILL boo this guy every chance I get.
(Sorry..this was also posted on GobbleforCyoung’s Fanpost)
by Stook on Dec 11, 2009 7:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
it's still 2009 and he's already a Royal
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Go ahead
and boo him then…..just makes you not a real fan.
How does booing him
make you not a fan? Although I wouldn’t boo him, I can’t blame him for taking the money. Dayton Moore in the one that deserves to get booed for this signing.
Because he
is booing him prior to knowing how he plays. Will he improve on last year….probably not, but booing him because of a decision made by the GM is just plain idiotic.
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
this is my favorite liine of defense of a terrible move
it’s a timeless classic. Cf. acquisitions of Jacobs, Mike; Betancourt, Yuniesky
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Wearing Royal blue turns bad players into good ones
It happens all the time. Just you wait and see!
The immoderate moderator
I thought it was the other way around?
Wearing Royal blue turns good players into bad ones, and bad ones into even worse ones.
Doesn't Cf.
mean “compare”? Wouldn’t “See” be more appropriate?
Sorry, law school finals period… then again, I never really understood the distinction between all the signals, so I could be way off here.
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
Hmmm.... yeah...
but it would work, too, since this is what people said when the jacobs and betancourt acquisitions went through
hell, you’re the smart one, I dunno. I’m so dumb I can’t even see what a great signing this is
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Umm.
When I stop wasting my money to go to games and watching every game possible then I will stop being a true fan. Kendell has stunk since 2004 and stunk the last 2 in an inferior league. I don’t need to wait to know that this will be a complete waste of $4M ( or $6M). DM made the biggest mistake a GM can make, paying for past performance. And 5 years ago past performance at that. I would rather pay Kendell $4M/$6M to not play for the Royals. At this point he is a sunk cost. If they want him to be a mentor and a coach to Wil Myers then hire him to be that for $100k or whatever coaches make. Don’t completely waste a roster spot on him. I’m so sick of these moves that there is no arguement that makes any sense. We have no sense of direction. We have no bucking process. It’s all just a joke.
This makes no sense
Olivo would have cost $3.3 million next year. Buck would cost somewhere in the same range. After accounting for the Olivo buyout, we are essentially paying $3.1 million to have Kendall instead of Olivo. Is there anybody who would honestly rather have Kendall than either of the two that were already on the team. Not to mention the fact we also have Brayan Pena. When you take into account the fact we guaranteed a second year at the same rate, the deal looks even dumber.
While the deal is for a much smaller amount than Farnsworth or Guillen, it is still incredibly stupid. If the Royals signed me to play for the league minimum, it would still be retarded even though its only a waste of $300,000.
More good news from the comments
If you go solely by hitting, this is the bottom 6 for wOBA the last three seasons (of the 132 who qualified)
.286 – Kendall
.295 – Betancourt
.304 – Feliz
.307 – Inge
.313 – J.Lopez
.313 – Melky Cabrera
And we wonder the runs scored for the team keeps dropping...
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Moore expects him to mentor Myers
Royals GM Dayton Moore said on a conference call that the reported terms ($4MM) for Jason Kendall’s deal are about right. The team expects him to mentor young pitchers and catching prospect Wil Myers, Moore said.
-
Is he really going to get to help Myers that much – it’s not like myers will be in the show this year or next year
my guess is
that he can make 6mil if he makes all the incentives (playing time or something else like that)
by wt on Dec 11, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Did you see what it took for Mr. Magoo Hosmer to get promoted?
If Myers hits 5 jacks in the first month of Rookie Ball, he’ll be in KC for a September call-up
sorry, that’s a really unfair shot at Dayton Moore. I’m acting like he just signed Jason Kendall for 2 years, $6M or something
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
terrible signing. The BS about mentoring Myers and young pitchers is just garbage. Like Kendall cares an ounce about young players in a system he has never played in.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
I don't see how there are positive people about this.
It baffles me. We had a very small amount to spend in free agency this year according to the front office and this is how they spend it? Really? Wow! We’re gonna pack the stadium next year. Bust out the Jason Kendall billboards!! What’s this years slogan, “We give up”? Start the young, cheap Pena and use one of the 4 catchers you just signed to minor league deals as a backup. It’s stupid shit like this that makes me miss Allard Baird. At least Baird could use the excuse that he had no money to work with. Moore is a failure as a GM and I refuse to support him anymore. We couldve used that money on the bullpen or another starter or even find a centerfielder. But, we just pissed on it and set it on fire. Moore is an idiot that should be canned.
Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.
by royaldaddy on Dec 11, 2009 7:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think you
are confusing positivity for just not being as negative. I don’t like the signing, but it’s not the end of the world.
by powder blues on Dec 11, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
it baffles me when people say things like “GMDM is an absolute f*cking moron”… i mean, sure, you don’t like the move, i understand that. But seriously? Seems like Kendall and GMDM are kinda straw men sometimes. Not saying I like the deal, but it doesn’t qualify as making someone a moron.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The sum of all his moves
make him a moron among GM’s.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Dec 11, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
what would Dayton Moore have to do to earn our disdain
Signing Farnsworth for multiple years?
Signing an aging, defensive challeged, average-at-best corner outfelder in his 30s to 3/36?
Being condescending and arrogant after putting together a 65-win team?
That 65-win team being his “win now” effort?
Trading for a DH who hits like Mark Grudzelaniak?
Trading for Yuniesky Betancourt?
Calling Trey Hillman “potentially one of the best baseball men of his generation?”
Oh well, at least he’s likable and non-condescending towards the fan base.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Praising Mike Jacobs for being productive in his press release after releasing Jacobs
Is Dayton Moron a living hypocrite
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, but this small move coupled with all the
Other idiotic moves made by Moore prove that he’s not fit to be a GM in MLB. If my boss told me to run to Subway to buy lunch for our clients and gave me his credit card, I better come back with something decent. I’m almost positive that if I came back several times with a bag full of dogshit that I paid way over market value on, I would not be allowed to get sandwiches anymore. But, you never know.
Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.
by royaldaddy on Dec 11, 2009 8:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you can't handle sandwiches, you sure as hell can't handle whatever job you have
And that’s what makes this so troubling. This isn’t that tough. Kendall probably shouldn’t be playing in MLB next year unless he’s a backup, and we just paid him as a starter for TWO years.
Ok, but this small move coupled with all the
Other idiotic moves made by Moore prove that he’s not fit to be a GM in MLB. If my boss told me to run to Subway to buy lunch for our clients and gave me his credit card, I better come back with something decent. I’m almost positive that if I came back several times with a bag full of dogshit that I paid way over market value on, I would not be allowed to get sandwiches anymore. But, you never know.
Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.
by royaldaddy on Dec 11, 2009 8:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
FWIW
Dutton is reporting that the deal is 2 years, 4MM, not the 2/6 deal that Pudge got. http://www.kansascity.com/385/story/1625398.html Not sure what “incentives” he is referring to—if they refer to offensive production, that’d be ok, but if just plate appearances, that would be worse.
Okay…I’ll be honest, this isn’t an absolutely horrible move. I say that with a giant asterisk—like all of you, I do not agree with this deal. I would not have made this deal. But I think that in the grand scheme of things, it is a very minor mistake. There are a few reasons for this—
First, if what Dutton is saying is true, Kendall is coming cheaper than either Buck or Olivo would have been by $1.3-1.5 million per year. Even if Kendall gets injured in ST and never plays a game in Royals uniform, the Royals are out less than what we spent in 2009 for Professor Tatersworth to suck at life.
Second, assuming Kendall stays in the .330 OBP range like he has lately, he represents a significant upgrade in the OBP department over both Buck and (especially) Olivo. Yes, Kendall cannot slug for crap, and never really has, but OBP is a higher priority. This is really pathetic for me to admit, but part of me is relieved that Moore actually signed a player whose OBP is above .320.
Third, Kendall’s defense represents a huge upgrade over Olivo’s (even though Kendall is almost as bad as Buck in throwing out basestealers). According to Baseball Prospectus’s numbers, Kendall was relatively decent on defense in 2009.
Again—none of this is to say that I think this is a good move by the Royals. It isn’t. I would have rather we kept Buck around for one more year than signed Kendall. But I don’t think that it is an absolutely abysmal, horrendous, move. I’m not disagreeing with anyone, I’m just trying to put things into perspective.
by DarthYoshi on Dec 11, 2009 8:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It can only be PA's
Incentives for actual production are not allowed.
And weknow from experience that Dayton sets very easy to reach levels for the incentive thresholds.
Thanks for clarifying
Am hoping for lots of starts for B. Pena.
I could see Kendall catching 120 games or so...
assuming no injuries.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
i dunno, I think it's unfair to assume Moore/Hillman would pointless march a horrible, older player out there day after day
_NEW.jpg)
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
No, the lack of slugging does eat up all of the value of the walks and high OBP
A point of OBP is worth more than a point of SLG (10 points of OBP = roughly 18 points of SLG), but at some point, a complete lack of slugging can sink a hitter’s value. That is why wOBA was created.
It is pretty amazing that even with a .330 OBP, Kendall still provides almost no value with his bat.
Yeah
but what about the +11 defense he put up in 2008?
(2006, 2007, and 2009 are all outliers)
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
a MLB.com board citizen brought up Kendall's .290 career BA
if he was awesome 10 year ago, then that’s enough. Duh.
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
JOHNNY BENCH HAS A .342 CAREER OBP
I can’t believe so many teams are passing on him this offseason
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
On top of whatever Kendall makes, you also have to add Olivo's 100k buyout for 2009
not huge, but still needs to be taken into account
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
He can get all the walks he wants
but his OBP goes down while his BA tanks. The older he gets, the less power he has, which means even his hits will start to be so soft, even they will be caught for outs.
GMDM makes
me want to quit making the drive to KC for games. Luckily I should be moved to S.C. prior to the season and I won’t have to worry about it.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
From D_F's Driveline Mechanics post on catcher defense
Of 114 qualifying catchers:
95) Brayan Pena (-2.9 runs)
106) John Buck (-4.8 runs)
113) Miguel Olivo (-8.8 runs)
Jason Kendall? #105 at -4.5 runs
Good thing he has much better offensive production…
c'mon, everyone, even d_f knows
that measuring catcher’s defense is very difficult. I’m not saying Kendall is good… just that the above stats may or may not be super helpful
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
i guess...
the metrics have been all over the place for Joe Mauer (just to name one)… one group says he’s great, another says he’s awful. Personally I don’t know enough to make a judgment… just like I don’t know enough to make a judgment about Kendall. I assume he was once good defensively and now, at 35, is not nearly as good anymore. But I don’t know how far he’s fallen.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take the metrics into consideration, of course, but
when everyone seems to think they’re still a ways away from successfully measuring catcher defense, I won’t make it my one and only.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, other metrics have him as even...
like I said, I’m sure 2006, 2007, and 2009 are outliers
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Are you being...
…sarcastic or truthful? I mean, he could revert back, easily I think, to 2 WAR, yes?
Reversion machine
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, are you being sarcastic?
Revert to 2 WAR? Only if he can find a way-back machine.
The immoderate moderator
I was so worried they weren't going to be able to replace
TPJs bat on the day the Giants signed him. Whew no worries now Jason Kendall should do quite nicely. Can’t wait to watch him in that 2 hole in Hillmans lineup. Trey praising his bat control !
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
even Kendall's declining bat is better than TPJ... way better actually.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
that anyone would feel the need to defend a guy by saying his bat is better than TPJ's
says all we really need to know about Jason Kendall
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone agrees OLivo and Buck suck
even if Kendall sucks who gives a fuck! I would have like Barajas or Robinson Diaz or a young catcher with some pop. But the one thing Kendall can do compared to most catchers is get on-base something a KC catcher hasn’t done in centuries
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 8:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
kinda agree
it’s funny to think about it: if you could pick one category for your starting catcher to NOT suck in, which would it be:
1. OBP
2. SLG
3. Passed Balls
Looks like GMDM picked #1.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 11, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Wow man, are you ever right?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Dec 11, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
better archive that baby quick
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
That was the first day
I joined RR. It was also the first time Gobble said to me:
[Kyle Farnsworth] will be better than [Ramon] ramirez next year
how does taht sounds dcdumbass
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
"but Jason Kendall sometimes gets on base" is this year's "but Mike Jacobs hits home runs"
Yes, between OBP and SLG, a player can suck so much in one of the categories to completely negate the other one.
by Gopherballs on Dec 11, 2009 8:26 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
no we had/have better options at 1B DH
who are we going to put as a catcher? Pena isn’t ready (for some unknown reason). I’m tired of watching Olivo/Buck fail to get on base and blow the game with some pass ball/retarded catcher error.
It’s not Kendall the problem. Stop attacking the player. He does get on base. THe problem is the cash flow. Moore is stupid enough to fall for the two years, and thinks unproductive veteran catchers are worth 4-6 million over 2 years
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Does Kendall get a bonus for winning the Silver Slugger award?
Also, not to spoil my longer entry on this topic (Which you should read).. but Brayan Pena almost had more XBH than Kendall
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
I'm on record that this deal isn't the end of the world.
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 8:43 PM EST reply actions
And no one is saying that it is the end of the world
It is just another inexplicable, stupid move that wastes money and hurts the team. And we are responding to it as such.
The immoderate moderator
Some people have acted like it is the end of the world.
I’ve read at least 3 “I’m no longer a fan” posts in this thread due to this move, and that is silly
BOOM! ROASTED!
I think that's about people desperate to see things improve
Instead, they see DM spend millions on a guy who doesn’t improve the team a bit. And this move spent most of the offseason budget. It’s easy to get dispirited by such a screw up.
The immoderate moderator
Yea...
But it was millions here, or Millions on Buck. Neither would have been well spent, and (again) I’d have rather seen ‘em wait for Navarro to get DFA’d & pay a little more for him, but i’s done, I’m over it.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Buck and Kendall weren't the only options
They could have stuck with B. Pena as the #1 catcher and gone with a replacement level catcher as a backup. That would have been much cheaper with essentially the same production (or perhaps better production) than the option they chose.
The immoderate moderator
I'm aware
That we aren’t stuck in a vacuum where the only two options at C were Buck & Kendall.
This still doesn’t change the fact that the signing has happened, and I am over it. Pontificating about what we SHOULD have done is pointless at this point. The only thing we can hope for is that Kendall plays on Sundays & day games after night games, and B.Pena is relegated to do most of the catching.
Everyone is assuming that the plan is to have Kendall @ #1, and while it may be in GMDM’s & Trey’s track record to compound a poor move by handing said poor move tone of PT, I am at least hopeful that isn’t the case this time.
BOOM! ROASTED!
You're ignoring GMDM's comment about this guy playing 130 games.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
I'll be shocked if GMDM agreed to pay this guy 6 million without having him as the #1 catcher.
Are catchers that play on Sundays and day games usually paid that well?
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Yes, he'll be the #1 catcher, barring injury
catching the vast majority of games. I can understand hoping that this won’t happen. I hope that I’ll win the lottery. Neither are likely to happen.
The immoderate moderator
You're pissed.
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
just give me brett gardner this offseason and you can make whatever dumb moves you want Dayton Moron
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 8:49 PM EST reply actions
I'll agree there.
If he can get Brett Gardner here (without dumping the farm system), I will forgive the Kendall transgression.
It's somewhat fitting that Moore signed a 35 year old catcher
mere days after the last remnants of Benito Santiago’s time in KC were jettisoned
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
Yo we signed Adam Bostick
what a stupid name
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 11, 2009 9:14 PM EST reply actions
Gentleman
Feast your eyes on this car crash of an inteview with our dear leader
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1625398.html
"There were other offers," he said, "but one thing about Dayton and the Royals is, they called me the first day I became a free agent. That’s something that kind of speaks for itself."
Yes, Jason. It most certainly does.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 11, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He came here to win!
Best part: yup, it’s 2/6. that’s all I need
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, same thing.
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Best line of the article
“club officials make it clear Kendall projects as their key off-season acquisition”
Yes, yes it does.
"There were other offers," he said, "but one thing about Dayton and the Royals is, they called me the first day I became a free agent. That’s something that kind of speaks for itself."
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
yup
“one thing about Dayton and the Royals is, they called me the first day I became a free agent. That’s something that kind of speaks for itself.”
Entry #7 or so in the “Best Epitaph for the Dayton Moore Era”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
I really LOL'd
seriously, I nearing pee my pants laughing right now.
Sobering up now…I’m so, so sorry.
godfather of futureredbirds.net
Dutton reallly doesn't pull any punches in the article, either
For a KC guy. He’s pretty frank about the defensive evaluations, Kendalls horrible hitting, etc.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
In other words
Even Bob Dutton isn’t putting up with the F.O.‘s B.S. anymore. Incompetence and old-schoolness is one thing, but arrogance isn’t going to help you at all. Nice job, turning a very good, and frankly, friendly writing staff (Dutton, Mellinger, Poz) against you, boys.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Well it might possibly be just in time to matter, so that's nice.
If we can run DM out this season and get a Jack Z type next year, our farm system should help us compete with the new GM within 2 years.
This signing isn't doing anything to ease my primary concern going into the offseason
That the front office would further cripple the offense in an attempt to slightly improve the horrendous defense.
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
...and true to form
their defensive stopper isn’t all that great at defense, putting up a -4.5 in my system, and a -9 according to Rally’s
The Fans Scouting Report also had him as below average
Don’t worry, though, we can totally trust the Royals defensive scouts to be better than that
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
d_f, just so you know, one day when I own an MLB team
You’ll be getting the call as the GM.
Everyone will say “WTF! Go back to your mom’s basement!”
And when you win the World Series with 4 Russell Branyans, 5 Langerhans, and a bunch of 2 WAR pitchers, you can tell everyone to suck it, and then repeat the next year by scrapping the team entirely just to show off your mad skillz!!
Man, how much beer did you drink last night?
All I’m saying is, when you make your first billion, don’t stop!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 12, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
My favorite thing about today
is how quickly this moots Rany’s latest article about how signing Kendall reflects Moore’s new-found understanding that we should slash the MLB payroll to be able to sign guys like Arguelles.
Ever the optimist.
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
Ha
SI says the contract is backloaded. So for his second, even worse year we will be paying $3.75m.
Doesn’t that just rock?
Someone needs to tell Dayton
that if he doesn’t fill up the 2011 payroll completely, he’ll get a big enough bonus to be a god a Burlington Coat Factory
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 11, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
In a weird kind of
thinking like GMDM way, that makes some sense, as JoGui will be off the books next year, and I think potentially, Meche will be traded before next year, so potentially a lot of $$ will be out there…not that it makes sense to spend $3+M of that on an old C, but I can see what GMDM was trying to accomplish by doing that (I guess)
BOOM! ROASTED!
Meche will be traded?
Really? You think so? Dayton Moore wants to win now. I think he’ll stick with Meche until the end (at least until the trading deadline of his final season).
Regardless, I can’t see what Moore is trying to accomplish by wasting money on Kendall for two years. I can’t see how it fits into any kind of plan. Seriously.
The immoderate moderator
I dont know that he WILL be traded
I think the potential is there though. I think there is a better than good chance that we will be out of contention nearing the trade deadline. If Meche has stayed healthy through that point in the season, and has put up good numbers, the demand may be there. Whether or not the demand is great enough in GMDM’s mind to warrant making the whole in the 2011 rotation is debateable. He was fielding offers for him this offseason, so writing off trade talks for him if a trifle foolish IMO
BOOM! ROASTED!
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