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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Once again, Mellinger gets it right. The negative uproar is as unnecessary as the overpraising of some potentially great pick-up would be (e.g. pulling off a trade for, say, Geovany Soto, would've been). On traditionally built teams, a weak bat at catcher would be tolerated if the traditional power positions were producing. The problem is the traditional positions, to which Mellinger alludes. In his words: "The Royals have much bigger issues." - TL

about 2 years ago Beer_tiny timlacy 59 comments 0 recs  | 

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I think Pos had it right

Not a terrible deal, although the second year is troubling. Its just pointless. I’d much rather they took a chance on someone younger on the small chance that catcher ends up having a spike in performance a la Olivo in 2009. There is about a zero chance Kendall posts anywhere near a 100 OPS+ in 2010.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 14, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions  

I'll be shocked if it's over 85

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 14, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This is Bloomquist all over again

The critics of the critics just don’t get it

“Gload sucks, but it’s only 2/3”

“Bloomquist sucks, but it’s only 2/3”

And so on. If you don’t get it, fine. I’d get suck of arguing with Carl Everett or Sarah Palin, too.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions  

"sick"

although “suck” also seems appropriate

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

There better not be one $##@#ing peep

from either the front office or Sam Mellinger about the Royals “difficult budget situation” that says anything about the revenue disparity or implies it’s anything other than Dayton Moore’s fault. If there is, well, then, um, there’s nothing i can do about it. But I WILL TWEET FURIOUSLY.

why do i even care?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I've asked that questions way too many times this weekend.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 14, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

See my...

… invisible imperative comment below. – TL

by timlacy on Dec 14, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Hindsight is always 20/20

A lot of those moves were mistakes, but the Cruz signing was almost universally praised, and the signings of both Yabuta and Bale received quite a bit of support in the blogosphere. Taking on Crisp’s salary was likewise pretty defensible at the time. I don’t like Moore any more than you do, but some of this is just taking advantage of hindsight.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 14, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

The point still stands

When you’re wasting $23 million on deals that EVERYONE thinks is stupid, you can’t really afford to miss on the $20 million people think might be decent investments.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 14, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he'll be better

but I don’t expect him to ever be as good as he needs to be. And if he is, he needs to be traded ASAP

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

We're not contending anyway

so if he is good, he needs to net us a B prospect at the deadline.

by AxDxMx on Dec 14, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly!
We’re not contending anyway

That's why we shouldn't worry about the Kendall signing!

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 14, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Heh...

Keep up the bad signings and we’ll never compete. I’m a Greinke, Butler, Gordon, or a top prospect dump away from dumping this team til DM leaves. As it is right now, I doubt I go to any games other than possibly opening day.

by AxDxMx on Dec 14, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The Royals should be grateful to get a C

and maybe some salary relief

Teams are getting smarter. They aren’t going to send a guy with potential for half a season of an average reliever

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

and to think...

I don’t even see Farnsworth on that list…

StonewallPDS

by StonewallPDS on Dec 14, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

See my...

… invisible imperative comment below. – TL

by timlacy on Dec 14, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Did Mellinger get this right

just like he got his evaluation of the GUillen signing as “great” in the middle of guillen one hot streak right?

“Once again?” I like Mellinger, but when has he ever been right when going against real analysts?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions  

Or like when he unleashed his "see Bloomquist is valuable"

In the middle of Bloomquist’s hot streak, ignoring his awful second half.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 14, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow

“real analysts”

I thought part of this de-centralization of information movement was to do away with the notion that certain contributors are more “real” than others.

by kcdc1 on Dec 14, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough

I guess I should say that I shouldn’t hold Mellinger up to analytical standards — he’s a good reporter and writes some good stories.

If I was to consider him as an analyst, who has access to the same (and possibly more) information we did, I’d just say he sucked at it. But that’s not his job, so I’m not going to hold him to that.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not a reasonable evaluation

Because its yet another sign that Moore doesn’t properly value the right thing in assembling a major league roster—current production—and overvalues other “intangible” things—veteran presence, playing the game “the right way”—that are only valued by teams that aren’t any good in the first place. I was actually pretty complacent about the possibility of signing Kendall in principle—I figured we were going to get someone pretty poor at catcher this year, and while Kendall was worse than others, the difference for this team this year was negligible. But this is when I thought he’d get a one year deal at about $2 million. As Poz put it, its just depressing when the general manager grossly overpays—in both dollars and years (which will then be used as an excuse for not signing better players for more money in later years) when better production could have been had for a lot less.

In short, this deal erases any hope that Moore really learned from the terrible deals he made last season. And, as the rest of league learns more and more how to make the right deals, it also erodes hope that the Royals will ever be competitive under Moore. And that is worth getting upset about.

If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 14, 2009 11:56 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

See my...

…invisible imperative comment below. – TL

by timlacy on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The uproar is not unneccessary

It would be great if we were getting him to be a backup.

Too bad he won’t be. There was nothing to get in an “uproar” about when the Royals overpaid Willie Bloomquist either, until he collected 400+ AB, started almost the entire season and hit at the very top of the lineup.

- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes

by JobDDT on Dec 14, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

Can't wait to see how Moore "solves" the CF problem next

Also looking forward to Mellinger arguing against the uproar that will surely follow it as well.

unless, of course, Moore does something astute instead

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 14, 2009 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

Its just 2 years $7 million for Podsednik

Its not a big deal.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 14, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

That's probably too much.

We’ll probably end up with Willy Taveras after trading Gordon for him and then give Willy a new contract for 2/$12M.

by AxDxMx on Dec 14, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Invisible Imperative?

Are we not obligated by MLB, in relation to revenue sharing, to spend some portion of money on free agents, regardless of their worth and desire to be in KC? I’ve been wondering about “invisible imperatives” for about 2-3 months. I mean, no GM could be so stupid as to keep spending money yet have ownership retain him. That incongruity makes me think that Glass has some sort of an arrangement with other owners about spending some set amount of money on free agents. – TL

PS: This might be worthy of a whole new fan post.

by timlacy on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

i doubt it

look at the marlins… there’s no requirement to spend, and even if there were, you could do better than this

by Freneau on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

But you know...

…how Glass was so chintzy for so long. I wonder if he’s in a kind of punishment stage. I know this is all speculation, but some of the signings make so little sense—-in light of Glass’s past cheapness and the seeming idiocy of overpaying by GMDM—-that I can’t help but wonder about silent bargains. – TL

by timlacy on Dec 14, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't imagine Kendall's salary would matter that much then

And I’d rather he spent money on that Cuban pitcher or Latin American free agents than Jason Kendall.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if there was a spending limit

We could overpay to get good players instead of overpaying to get bad ones. I’d even rather see Bedard signed for 1 yr at $6 million than Kendall at his contract. Bedard has a small chance of being good enough to return a decent prospect. Kendall has a zero percent chance of helping this team contend.

by KCBear on Dec 14, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

BINGO!

If he wants to spend money, then pick the good players to spend it on.

If he wants to pick crappy players, then he should pay them appropriately and give them a lot less.

by AxDxMx on Dec 14, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

This is absolutely true

The bargain is silent only from the public, but very much explicit between Glass and Selig. Glass must spend some of his revenue sharing money because of the many years he simply pocketed it. The real problem is how poorly it is being spent.

Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?

by royalsroyalsroyals on Dec 15, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Source?
The bargain is silent only from the public, but very much explicit between Glass and Selig

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 15, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

No
Are we not obligated by MLB, in relation to revenue sharing, to spend some portion of money on free agents, regardless of their worth and desire to be in KC?

There is no requirement on how teams spend revenue sharing money.

by Gopherballs on Dec 14, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

but there may be an implicit requirement, as in “we’re giving you money, and if you keep hoarding it and not spending it on players, we’re not going to keep giving you the money”.

doesn’t mean they should spend it on worthless players, though.

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No, the revenue sharing agreement is part of the CBA

There are no strings attached to the money. A team could spend it all on Faberge Eggs (which the Marlins might have done — they certainly did not spend it on player salaries), and the other owners only recourse is to complain to the press (which some have done). They cannot change the rule without amending the CBA, so good luck with that.

by Gopherballs on Dec 14, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

that’s what i’m getting at. (not trying to be argumentative, i don’t really know all that much about the relationships b/t the owners), but i imagine the understanding behind the revenue sharing within the CBA was that revenue sharing dollars would contribute to larger spending on baseball for the small-market teams—at least from the big-money teams’ perspective, anyway. i realize there’s no literal language mandating how the money is spent, but i can see why the Red Sox owner was griping (i seem to remember that’s who it was).

i’m just saying if the small market teams have been treating the revenue sharing as a gravy train, they can’t expect the teams paying into revenue sharing are going to let that continue indefinitely (whether change comes through renegotiation or lawsuit).

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 14, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe big-money teams would like to complain more, but they don’t want to cook their golden goose (i.e. no salary cap).

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 14, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you may have answered the reason why changing the system would be so difficult

There are more “have nots” than “haves” in baseball, so any change in favor of the big money teams would require equal concessions in favor of the other teams.

Changing anything in a CBA, especially baseball’s labor agreement, is like pulling teeth. The union and the owners generally agreed about ten years ago that the free agent compensation system made no sense, but for various reasons, only minor tweaks have occurred.

And in reality, aside from the Marlins, the low revenue teams generally have increased payroll, so it has not been a major issue.

by Gopherballs on Dec 14, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Glass made a promise to the other owners years ago,

when revenue sharing was first being seriously debated, that he would not pocket shared money. The debate largely came down to a clash between Glass and Steinbrenner, who insisted that pocketing the money was exactly what Glass would do. Of course The Boss turned out to be right. Selig stood by his good friend Glass as long as he could, but four years ago or so he turned up the heat on Glass to start spending because of the growing unrest from other owners. Finally it came down, reportedly, to a final ultimatum from Selig at which point the Royals owner magnanimously announced to the world that he would be increasing the payroll to usher in a new era of competitiveness. This is history, not conspiracy theory. I just wish it had been better reported by our local media.

Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?

by royalsroyalsroyals on Dec 15, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

... And as I mentioned above,

I think the real problem is not whether the R’s spend this money, but that they are doing so in such an ill-informed manner.

Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?

by royalsroyalsroyals on Dec 15, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

As long as we're throwing out baseless conspiracy theories...

Dayton Moore is living backwards in time, ala Merlin. Those signings are genius!

by PopeSoria on Dec 14, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I can't wait til 2005

1.21 JIGGOWATTS!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 14, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

If this is the case

Blow your secret salary quota on 1 year deals…why the hell would you lock yourself into multi-year deals?

by PopeSoria on Dec 14, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Throw another epicycle on the fire

What about the yellowcake?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

welcome to the site, RR

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 14, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not broken

Everyone just isn’t trusting it enough, dammit.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 14, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course the process isn't broken ...

… how can it possibly be when they overhaul it and rebuild it every six months.

by Steve Nelson on Dec 14, 2009 7:08 PM EST reply actions  

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