Running Out of Hope

by Royally_Screwed on Dec 15, 2009 12:00 PM EST Comment 70 comments

I've sat on the sideline long enough - just cruising for Royals news, transactions, rumors, etc, - looking for something to give me hope for next year. I need to vent. I don't expect a Halladay trade or Lackey signing by the Royals but I'd like to think we have a few more holes that need to be addressed than swapping out one weak-hitting catcher for another, or investing in yet another prospect that is 1-2 years away. The White Sox just signed Juan Pierre - wouldn't he have made a perfect CF and added a little pop to a power-starved lineup? GDM said to expect more trades than FA signings - where are they? We traded Teahan and signed Kendall - that's it? WTF? Why bother. Trade Callaspo, trade DeJesus - just make a move.

If the same core group sucked last year and we don't really add anything of substance don't you think we are going to suck again? Especially if the other teams in our division are adding players and trying to improve.

I always said I'd be a Royals fan for life but I'm beginning to doubt my allegiance. I've already decided to forgo my season tickets that we've had for the past 5 years. I just cannot take the misery and frustration anymore.

I realize next year's off season is probably going to be more lively but I don't see how we are going to make it through this season. Yes we have Zack and Billy but they cannot do it alone. I'm tired of my team being the laughing stock of MLB - tired of hoping that Gordon is the real deal, tired of hoping that Guillen will act like a corner OF and run producer, tired of hoping Bannister or Davies will grow into a solid #3 and mostly I'm tired of landing top draft picks that are years away and ultimately fizzle out.

Got hope?

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Surely you must be joking about Juan Pierre having any type of pop at all.

but aside from that I agree. They are boring. You can’t tell me we dont have the money to land one of these big players. Our freaking owner owns WALMART. We could get anyone. But I also decided to not get season tickets again for the the first time in 5 years.

The White sox are at least trying. They are at least filling their holes, Closer – Putz, 3B – Teahen, CF – Pierre, 4th OF – Andruw Jones, Backup SS that cant mentor the young – Vizquel

What need and void have we filled. Catcher? And a shitty one at that.

by focs on Dec 15, 2009 12:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Glass was a Wal-Mart executive. He wasn’t part of the Wal-Mart family.

We shouldn’t try to lipstick up the pig too much. We don’t have a shot to contend this year or next at all. The better move is to try to stack the lineup for a series of runs from 2012-2015

by WURoyal on Dec 15, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

While that is true

Glass is one of the wealthiest owners in MLB. He is just notoriously cheap and not just when it comes to the Royals. I can’t imagine a Wal-Mart CEO that isn’t astoundingly stingy.

by KCBear on Dec 15, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've actually heard reports

He is among the less wealthy owners in the sport. Which is still pretty damn wealthy. And I’m sure he gets a lot in revenue sharing he’s not spending. But I’m just saying.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 16, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s my understanding as well. The bulk of his wealth is actually in the ownership of the Royals.

I’d put his wealth somewhere around 600million with about 350 of that being the Royals. He’s nowhere near as wealthy as a lot of the owners out there.

by WURoyal on Dec 16, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hanging on to mine, I want my name in early for those All-Star tickets.

How sad is that? I’m hanging on to my tickets in for 2012, not because I think that’s when the Royals will be competitive but because of the ASG.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 15, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking about buying a partial ticket package for that exact reason...

If I buy a partial, do I get the ASG tix?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure about that, I'd think so.

Still got most other season ticket benefits, but probably behind those full season ticket people in the ASG line.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 15, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The line isn't very long, is it?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Um, no.

Getting shorter by the day, I’d imagine.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 15, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Juan Pierre will steal 50-60 bags though

by focs on Dec 15, 2009 12:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think that's a little optimistic

Maybe if this were 4 or 5 years ago. He’ll probably steal around 30-40 this year.

by Soria's Unibrow on Dec 18, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Which is still pretty good

But nobody steals anymore (unless John Buck is catching—zing!) because it’s statistically a bad idea most of the time.

by Soria's Unibrow on Dec 18, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i wouldn't expect them to stand too pat (weird phrase)

I still expect that one of Callaspo/DDJ will be traded, and we’ll be in on a FA pitcher or two

by Will McDonald on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Right now is the time to trade DDJ

Cameron just signed, and the markets for Holliday and Bay have narrowed to a few teams. The next best free agent outfielder available is Marlon Byrd, who is not as good as DDJ.

by Gopherballs on Dec 15, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so we trade him to the cardinals after they lose out on Holl?

could work…

by Will McDonald on Dec 15, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Welcome home, Albert!

Unless the Cards to the rumored (and insane) 8/130 deal for Holliday

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Only Jack Z could swing a DDJ for Pujols trade

I almost think that crazy bastard could do it.

by Soria's Unibrow on Dec 18, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the Cards have NOTHING to trade...

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 20, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you do Gardner straight up for DDJ?

My head says it’s a good deal for the Royals, and there aren’t many bigger Gardner fans than me, but something about the idea feels wrong.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what's gardner's servcie time?

by Will McDonald on Dec 15, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

0.072

according to Cot’s

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

id be somewhat worried as to how gardner would hit

after a year in the league as a full time player

no basis for it per se

by Will McDonald on Dec 15, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The complete lack of power concerns me

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 15, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is 1.072

I don’t think Cots has added the 2009 service time yet.

by Gopherballs on Dec 15, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, what do you think, then?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

see below

It would be fair value, but I would save DDJ for a higher risk/higher reward talent.

by Gopherballs on Dec 15, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if DM traded DDJ

and we ended up getting Gardner, I’d be happy

he could do worse

by Will McDonald on Dec 15, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What I would do and what Dayton would do are probably two very different things

but, yeah, I would be fine if Dayton got Gardner for DDJ.

by Gopherballs on Dec 15, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

With the side caveat

that I’d rather have, say, Felix Pie for the upside, but don’t think it’s worth talking about w/ DDJ because the Os have plenty of OFs

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gardner for DDJ is probably fair

but I don’t think I do that deal.

DDJ is the Royals’ only realistic trade chip that could bring back a player close to the majors with high upside — not a Top 25 prospect by any means, but a prospect or young undervalued player who could project as at least a 3 win player in his prime. I would hold out for that with DDJ, and use the Bannisters and Callaspos to nab the safer talent.

by Gopherballs on Dec 15, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that sounds right

It would be fun to watch Gardner pull a WTF MOrgan 2009 in KC, but no use betting on that. I’m with you. Stupid Andy MacPhail. Why can’t he just GIVE us Pie?

He’s on my shit list now with Jack Z.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think you can

DDJ has showed us what he through his career. That is a solid MLB player who is above average in several things and below in several.

He can’t steal bases or hit lots of bombs. But he can play a solid corner and a mildly below average CF. He is the poor man’s Damon in my opinion. He has a decent average. Usually clutch hitter although he had a down year.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Plus I've always thought we could get more for DDJ than Gardner/Pie

or maybe I’m just overvaluing DDJ… do you think that is the case?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I love DDJ

not everyone does, but I do

He’s a better player, but it comes down to service time. The Royals aren’t going to win while DDJ is here, so he needs to be turned into players that will be. Gardner will be cheaper longer, though his bat is questionable (I think his glove makes up for it). He could pull a Nyjer Morgan 2009, but really, above average is his ceiling. But years of that is very valuable.

Pie is like Gardner, but higher ceilling.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who would be the leaders for DDJ IYO?

What is a reasonable haul?

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Dec 15, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“It can always get worse.”

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

While I would normally agree (and will always salute Buddy for saying it)

I’m reading a book about the Bataan Death March right now. So, in a non-sports context, at least, no, there was a time when it literally couldn’t get worse.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 15, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Aliens come down, enslave the planet in the midst of WWII and make us all Death March as their slaves

while plundering all of Earth’s resources. Then leave us to die on the side of the interstellar highway.

It can always get worse.

As far as likely scenarios though, you are right, it doesn’t get much worse.

Did anyone else watch WWII in HD on the History channel? It’s still on my DVR, I watched the first few episodes and thought it was pretty cool to see some high quality footage from that era.

by AxDxMx on Dec 15, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really enjoyed the

WWII in HD on History. Good stuff.

by NotAHippie on Dec 15, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I Read Frankl's

“The Concentration Camp” in high school. It changed my thinking forever. It can always get worse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2009 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he White Sox just signed Juan Pierre - wouldn't he have made a perfect CF and added a little pop to a power-starved lineup?

No.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

i'm curious as to why you got season tickets 5 years ago...

was it a 2003 thing?

by Will McDonald on Dec 15, 2009 1:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think 2003 needs to be shoved into the face anytime anyone brings up the 2008 "improvement "

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think 2003 needs to be shoved in anyone's face

Painful for multiple reasons, especially providing hope for 2004, it is the only time in my life I can say that I went to Royals games in August that mattered. That’s why I went to damn near every one of them. I knew it may be my last chance in this lifetime…….ahhh, what a summer…..

Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.

by Discodave on Dec 15, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also.....what 2008 improvement?

At this point, I don’t remember any.

Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.

by Discodave on Dec 15, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's why it's in "quotations"

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Remember, not everyone of us has a triple digit IQ

Please use the sarcasm font, as inferencing is not high on my list of things to do.

Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.

by Discodave on Dec 15, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Will do.

D_F, you better be listening!

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

75 wins!

That’s what the Moore apologists always point to, forgetting that Allard Baird managed to put together an 83 win team himself.

that’s all I meant.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah yes, we did win 75, huh?

Why do I remember it like the usual yearly kick in the nuts? A glorious 4th place finish! Then yes, your point is well taken.

Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.

by Discodave on Dec 15, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Interestingly

I referenced “2003” lower in this thread without noticing this sub-thread conversation… it was a terribly painful year.

by i before e except after Grrr on Dec 17, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I found some hope. It appears to be a one-way.

Will Ebners Hit Parade, Pain TV; Channel 32; All the time! (PDT)

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Dec 15, 2009 1:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Despair...

must be the street heading in the opposite direction. There’s never a place to turn around when you need one.

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Dec 15, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hope Is A

Place to turn around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope,_Alaska

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2009 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

awesome

Will Ebners Hit Parade, Pain TV; Channel 32; All the time! (PDT)

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pop? errr, not so much

I thought he had some power, but apparently Zack has more offensive pop than Pierre. My bad. Either way, at least he’s a true CF.

by Royally_Screwed on Dec 15, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

because he's fast, his arm makes Coco's look like a Vlad replica.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 15, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On another side note.

Is it a new trend to turn failed CFer’s into LFers? Damon/DDJ/Cameron ect.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 1:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It makes sense for Damon and DDJ

since their range had really deteriorated (Damon isn’t even good in LF anymore). With Cameron, he’s still good in CF, but I think the Sox see him as a temporary stopgap, and want to keep Ellsbury out there to see if he can return to pre-2009 form.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I still think

Ellsbury could be dealt for Adrian Gonzalez

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 15, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

DF

Who do you think won this Lee to the Mariners and Halladay to the Phillies deal?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 1:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

baseball reporters and bloggers

I dunno… When deals involve this many prospects it’s hard for me to tell. It sounds corny, but in a way they’re all winners.That’s possible.

TOR had to move Halladay and get good prospects back. They did.

SEA is arguably the team to beat in the West, now, and while they gave up prospects, Lee will only cost them $9M next seasonm and barring a totall collapse, will be worth much more than that in wins. And when a team makes the playoffs, it generally has a positive impact on revenue for years to come. They’ll offer him arb, too, and if they can’t resign him before he’ll almost certainly reject it, which means they’ll get a good draft pick, right?

PHI, I don’t know… it’s a bit dicey on their end, but if they’re really able to extend Halladay for only 3/$60M, then that’s a lot of projected surplus. They’ve got a “win now” kind of team, and it’s hard to see anyone overtaking them in the East for the next few years, anyway.

But my thoughts are generic, I’d rather hear what you think, and others.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 15, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am still trying to figure out what I think.

Honestly, it’s like 2 separate deals. Lee to Seattle for Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and Juan Ramirez. I don’t know much about those guys. So that moves a guy they weren’t going to be able to resign for a LHP and a speedy OF. I don’t know anything on Ramirez.

Then Phili sent their own guys to get Halladay. It seems like a good deal all the way around. Halladay was gone after the year so they got value out of him. Especially the Drabek “untouchable”.

If we are in the last year of Grienke/Meche and we aren’t going to get anything if we keep him, it’s something I hope we would do…

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 15, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Meche has two years left, Zack has three.

But if we were offered Marson, Carrasco, and Donald for Meche (which was insuated, not rumored), we screwed up.

by Dadunca on Dec 15, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Assuming you are flexible

I’d suggest getting a partial season ticket plan, then exchanging tickets as needed for Greinke starts and/or giveaways that you really want.

Not sure if that keeps you eligble for AS tickets – but my daughter had a partial season ticket plan, and she had virtually the same rights as full season ticket holders.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 15, 2009 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

plus, her season tickets were in the nosebleed section,

and she was able to “upgrade” in all but a few games, as long as she didn’t try to go to the expensive box seats downstairs.

Considering the current economy and mood of the Royals fans, and that the novelty of the renovated K should diminish somewhat this year, and that the team looks to lose 90-100 games again, I don’t see any reason this plan couldn’t work well for you.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 15, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Final reason to keep the tickets:

There are still only 30 places on earth to see the best baseball players in the World. Despite our lamentations here, the Royals players are still among that select brethren.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 15, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, my tickets were also nosebleed.

Sat there on opening day and never again. Just stay out of the 100’s and ushers won’t mess with you. We actually talked with a few ushers and they let us sit wherever we wanted after the 3rd inning.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 15, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if you want to switch teams go ahead

im sure almost every player on the Royals want to switch teams but i dont care i will stick with them. And why you ask, because they are my team through thick and thin, moves or no moves i love it when they win, when the K explodes after a home run and just the great history of players who have worn the uniform and for those who still have yet to wear it!

by jrcnc on Dec 15, 2009 7:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs