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Royals Top 30 Prospects: #6-1

We made it.  Here it is: The Top 6 7 Prospects in the Royals system.  I still plan one more post-next week-that will cover the state of the system and break down our prospects in some different ways.  I think a couple of my rankings may surprise you.  So feel free to make your case if you disagree with me.

#6b--Noel Arguelles--LHP--Age:20?

The Royals signed Arguelles to a 5 year/$7million contract last week.  Just a couple of years ago, the biggest international bones we'd given out was around $200,000--it is good to see the increased investment--but it will be years before we know if the Royals spent that money on the right players.  Arguelles is advertised as 20ish but who knows.  Since 2001, the US Government has cracked down on people changing their birthdate so there are fewer instances of prospects magically aging (see: Berroa, Angel).  However, I'm not sure how that affects Cuban defectors who are leaving a place that isn't going to cooperate with the US Government trying to establish how old a player is.  The bottom line is: we probably can't know with any certainty how old he is.  However it isn't a huge issue if he is 22 instead of 20--in fact it might reduce his change for injury a little bit.  What we do know about is his stuff--you've probably read the same scouting reports I've read: FB92-94, plus changeup and potential for plus curve.  Control is an issue for him.  I've read some folks who prefer him over Aroldis Chapman (but that is a minority view). Really tough guy to rank but I put him right behind Duffy--and I might even put him a hair behind Melville.  Reports are that he is expected to start the season at Wilmington where it will be very interesting to see how he adjusts.

Star-divide

 

#6--Dan Duffy--LHP--Age:20

Year Age Tm Lg Lev ERA G IP BF WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB
2008 19 Burlington MIDW A 2.20 17 81.2 325 0.992 6.2 0.4 2.8 11.2 4.08
2009 20 Wilmington CARL A_adv 2.98 24 126.2 516 1.176 7.7 0.4 2.9 8.9 3.05
3 Seasons 2.49 52 245.2 998 1.103 6.9 0.4 3.0 10.6 3.49
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/14/2009.

 

Part of me thinks Duffy doesn't get enough respect.  Another part of me is nervous about him for reasons I'm not sure I can put my finger on.  Duffy was our 3rd Round Pick out of a small HS in California. Duffy has occasionally been falsely labeled a soft-tosser.  His FB sits in the low-90s which isn't blazing but not slow either.  He adds a very good curveball and a good/decent changeup.  In 2008, he gave up a lot of flyballs but he increased his GB% in 2009 from 37% to 47%--he'll need to keep that rate high to thrive in the Texas League.  His numbers predictably dropped from an amazing 2008--his K rate and hit rate both went up but were still quite good.  In fact, he K'd the 2nd highest percentage of batters in the Carolina league and had the best FIP--all while being one of the younger pitchers in the league.  No doubt he benefited from his spacious home ballpark but he actually pitched better on the road. Scouts don't see much projection left in him--but he doesn't need it--if he keeps his excellent command he can succeed at the big league level and be more than just a middle of the rotation starter.  Look for him in AA to start 2010.

#5--Mike Moustakas--3B--Age:21

Year Age Tm Lg Lev PA 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
2008 19 Burlington MIDW A 549 25 3 22 71 8 4 43 86 .272 .337 .468 .805
2009 20 Wilmington CARL A_adv 530 32 2 16 86 10 6 32 90 .250 .297 .421 .718
3 Seasons 1126 61 6 38 167 18 10 79 184 .262 .320 .444 .764
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/14/2009.

The #2 pick in the 2007 draft, Mike Moustakas hasn't yet lived up to the hype.  In 2008, he had a horrible 1st half at Burlington but then turned it on and had an amazing 2nd half that raised expectations and allowed folks to forget those early season struggles.  Things looked encouraging to start 2009 as Moose hit 274/321/507 in his first month.  But his numbers plunged the next few months.  He hit a little bit better to end the year but still ended up with pretty ugly numbers for a #2 overall pick (especially that .297 OBP).  Moose was assigned to the Arizona Fall League where he hit 267/288/560.  You can slice those numbers a lot of ways--on base problems again vs. huge power, Mike was in a very hitting friendly environment vs. he was one of the youngest players in the league (most AFL participants have AA experience and are a couple of years older).  Then there were the reports of his putting on weight--a couple of AFL watchers commented on it.  Personally, I'm not too worried about weight and conditioning yet.  I am worried about his on base ability.  In 2008, he walked about 8% of the time, last year it dropped to 6%.  He needs to start pushing that number back up.  Also, his BABIP has been pretty low for two straight year--not sure if he has been unlucky both seasons of if there is something else going on there.  He has improved defensively at 3rd base and the amazing power is still there.  As he goes to AA, he need to 1. Be more patient--he's got such a quick bat that he needs to realize that just because he can put his bat on a pitch doesn't mean he should get his bat on a pitch.  2. Enjoy the Texas league--he goes to a hitting friendly league where he should see his average and power increase.  3. Get lucky--pull that BABIP back up.  I think/hope he'll bounce back to something like 280/340/500 next year.

#4--Will Myers--C--Age:19

Year Age Tm Lg Lev PA 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
2009 18 Idaho Falls PION Rook 80 7 1 4 14 2 0 9 15 .426 .488 .735 1.223
2009 18 Burlington APPY Rook 16 0 1 1 4 0 0 0 3 .125 .125 .438 .563
1 Season 96 7 2 5 18 2 0 9 18 .369 .427 .679 1.106
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/14/2009.

There were rumors that the Royals were considering Myers with the #12 overall pick in the 2009 draft.  He was an athletic catcher from a North Carolina HS who was scaring teams off with his price tag.  The Royals had him in a for a predraft workout at the K and he made quite the impression.  Myers is an amazing athlete with some folks speculating he could play CF if C doesn't work out.  He has power and projects to hit for average as well.  Myers didn't play against top level competition in HS so it was a little harder to know what his true talent level is.  Myers fell into their lap in the 3rd Round and the Royals drafted him.  He didn't sign until mid-August because the commissioner wouldn't let the Royals announce the way over slot signing bonus of $2 million.  The Royals let him play a series in his home state of North Carolina before shipping him off to Idaho Falls for the final month of the season.  Freshly drafted high schoolers normally don't go to the Pioneer League but the Royals challenged him (and the Pioneer League schedule lasted longer so he could get more at bats).  The results: 426/488/735.  Just a month, I keep telling myself.  But those are some crazy numbers.  His potential is high enough that there is a case for him to on top of this list but his lack of track record tempers my enthusiasm just a hair.  He's still raw behind the plate but the questions behind him staring there are simply form the unknown.  It could be that his bat will be ready before his glove is and that may make for an interesting decision.  I"m guessing he will go to Burlington, Iowa to start 2010 where he will face an league/environment that has chewed up many a HS hitter.  I can't wait to see how he handles it.

#3--Eric Hosmer--1B--Age:20

Year Age Tm Lg Lev PA 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
2009 -- Burlington MIDW A 327 17 2 5 49 3 2 44 68 .254 .352 .382 .734
2009 -- Wilmington CARL A_adv 107 2 2 1 10 0 0 9 22 .206 .280 .299 .579
2 Seasons 449 21 4 6 61 3 2 56 92 .245 .341 .366 .707
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/14/2009.

I feel like I'm either Eric Hosmer's agent or his mom because I don't think anyone else is going to have him this high on their list. If you liked Eric Hosmer a year ago there isn't any reason not to like him now.  I know that may be tough to swallow looking at last year's numbers but I think there are valid reasons for struggles.  Feel free to tell me if you think I'm just making excuses for him.  He struggled his 1st month in the cold, pitcher friendly Midwest League but then hit 299/413/483 in May.  He injured his hand at the end of May, I believe, and his stats in June dipped to 211/274/316 but he seemed to heal some and July was 288/377/442 until he was inexplicably called up to Wilmington.  I haven't really heard a good reason why he was promoted.  He really struggled and then there was the goggles/lasik incident that finished off his year.  I'm not saying Hosmer didn't have issues to work on.  He didn't get the ball in the air enough for a guy who was supposed to have the best power potential in the 2008 draft.  Did that have to do with his eyes?  Was his hand injury still lingering?  I don't know but was able to get on base and power can be an elusive tool to display at a young age and I think the power will return.  I think those folks who have dropped him way down their prospect lists will regret it in 2010.  The Hoz will go back to the Caroline League in 2010 to try and avenge the misguided assignment he was sent on there last year.

#2--Aaron Crow--RHP--Age:23

Crow was drafted 9th overall in 2008 by the Nationals after an amazing Junior season at Mizzou going 13-0 with a 2.59 ERA, 127k/38w in 107IP.  Negotiations went sour with the Nats and he didn't sign.  I didn't  think Crow would be availible when we picked at #12 but he was and we took him (I didn't think Grant Green would be either and that is who I would have taken but Crow was second on my list).  We did take him but we didn't sign him until September.  The Royals and Crow really hurt themselves as they missed valuable developmental time that Crow could have used after missing a season.  Crow did got to instructional league and then the AFL where he got 15 innings in with a 5.87 ERA, 12k/2w 17h.  He shook off the rust of his first couple of outings and pitched better in his last two.  Crow has a great fastball--mid 90s, sinking movement and he commands it really well.  He's also got a plus slider and a changeup that is a little inconsistent but can be good.  Pitch F/X from AFL showed a sinker--but that might just be the FB.  In college he was known to hold his velocity deep into games.  Some pitching mechanic gurus don't like his motion (because of a wrist curl in his motion) and think he is a high injury risk.  I don't know enough to know if their concerns are warranted.  He has the tools to be a front of rotation starter--but being off for a year means that 2010 will be spent making sure he isn't worked too hard in returning to competitive pitching.  I"m not sure where he'll start 2010 but I'm guessing Northwest Arkansas.

#1--Mike Montgomery--LHP--Age:20

Year Age Tm Lg Lev ERA G IP WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB
2008 18 Royals ARIZ Rook 1.69 12 42.2 1.008 6.5 0.4 2.5 7.2 2.83
2009 19 2 Teams 2 Lgs A-A_adv 2.21 21 110.0 1.055 6.5 0.1 2.9 8.0 2.72
2009 19 Wilmington CARL A_adv 2.25 9 52.0 0.962 6.6 0.0 2.1 8.0 3.83
2009 19 Burlington MIDW A 2.17 12 58.0 1.138 6.5 0.2 3.7 8.1 2.17
2 Seasons 2.06 33 152.2 1.041 6.5 0.2 2.8 7.8 2.75
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/14/2009.

Coming into 2009, I expected Hosmer and/or Moustakas to cement their status as our top prospects.  That didn't happen and it could make Montgomery's ascension to the #1 spot seem somewhat like he made it by default.  That would be wrong.  He is a legitimate #1 prospect. He isn't a Top 10 in all of baseball prospect (at least, not yet) but his performance in his first full professional season was amazing.  Montgomery was a supplemental 1st round pick out of HS in California.  He was also a basketball player before he got kicked off the team for too many flagrant fouls. He throws a good fastball at 91-93 that generates a lot of groundballs.  He has room to grow and could add more velocity.  He has a very good changeup.  He has the potential for a good curve but needs more consistency.  He pitched very well as he started the year at Burlington.  He was then promoted to Wilmington where he pitched even better.  He control got better after the promotion cutting his walk rate in half.  Just for fun, go compare his Carolina League numbers to Brian Matusz (top Orioles prospect who began the year at the Carolina league and is over 2 years older than Montgomery).  All the ingredients are there for him to be a top of the rotation starter. He's still only 20 but its hard to argue he has much more to prove at Wilmington.  Still the Royals could start him there and promote him midseason or, if he impresses in the Spring, could go ahead and put him at AA.

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No One Needs

It more than I do.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Im not sure about Myers...

over Moose at the moment. And if DMGM was going to take him in the first round then we should go burn down his office.

by KCG816 on Dec 16, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

rumor was that Myers was going to go #4 to Pittsburgh.

Should we go burn down their office too?

You got a top 5 potential talent in the 3rd round and signed him. You should go to GMDM’s office and throw him a party!

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Pittsburgh...

Oh so the other god awful franchise in baseball that cant do a damn thing right was going to draft him in the first round too…but he fell all the way to the third. There is nothing that said he was a top 5 talent last year. A guy who falls 3 rounds (including sandwich picks) isnt deserving of praise for your front office after he’s had 98 AB’s. When the Royals and Pirates, the kings of draft screw ups the past 15 years, have high praise for someone it isnt a good thing.

by KCG816 on Dec 16, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

actually a lot of teams and people who know what they are talking about

 had high praise for him and for good reason…. yea it was only 98 ABs but he was young for the level and just tore it up.. whats not to like about him so far?

by rockchalks7 on Dec 16, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

Everywhere had him ranked as a supp rounder. Still a steal in the 3rd round, but no one had him as a top 10 pick. Maybe Pittsburgh (and look who they did pick, a pure signability pick).

by kcbottom9th on Dec 16, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

How many of these will be BA Top 100 prospects?

Monty is a lock – probably a top 50 guy.

Crow I would think would be there, although who knows since he hasn’t pitched in affiliated pro ball.

I can see Myers around 100

Hosmer and Moose – depends. I see a lot of wildly differing views on those guys.

Also, I’m pretty sure Piccolo said Crow will begin at NWA

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 16, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Myers probably will not make it this year

BA usually limits the current year draftees on their Top 100 to the top ten or so. Myers was not in BA’s Top 30 for the draft, and the limited playing time — while impressive — is probably not enough. You can already predict the answer to a Myers question in one of their chats — “Let’s give him a full year at and behind the plate before we put him in the Top 100.”

Montgomery is a lock with Moose, Crow, and Duffy in the mix in the bottom half.

by Gopherballs on Dec 16, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

my guess

Locks:
Montgomery
Crow

Probably:
Myers
Hosmer
Moustakas
Duffy

In the neighborhood:
Melville
Arguelles

I think Bianchi should get mentioned but I don’t think he will.

by nwroyal on Dec 16, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

if we have more than 3 in the top 100...

then that must mean we have a pretty good system shaping up

by Will McDonald on Dec 16, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, I think pretty much everyone gets 3, unless they are terrible

The elite systems have 5-6

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 16, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

if elite systems have 5-6

there must be a lot of terrible systems with less than three.

by BrRoyal on Dec 16, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Math Is A

Bitch.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

100 divided by 30 teams = 3.33

Considering we are emphasizing the draft, and have been selecting near the top forever – would anything less than 4 or 5 in the top 100 be an indictment of Moore?

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 17, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

lets just trust the process

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

also...

I hate that Will Myers spells his name Wil

I want him traded before I have to deal with this at the big league level

by Will McDonald on Dec 16, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

he spells his name with only one "l"?

how did I miss that this whole time? I guess the little “i” and little “l” kind of blend together and I just assume another “l” is lurking in there.

by nwroyal on Dec 16, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol

I guess I never noticed you spelled it wrong either. :)

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I just don't get it

and tend not to be down with randomly respelling a name in a different way

its arrogant as hell

“for hundreds of years this name has been spelled this way, but my kid is different, and I demand that you acknowledge it”

by Will McDonald on Dec 16, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

do not fear change, young one

— signed Chone Figgins

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 16, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Some Idiots Put

Two l’s in Phil. There shouldn’t even be two l’s in Philip.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I used to think like you

But I just chalk it up to the evolution of the language and mutations/misspellings that catch on.

I guess I can see where you are coming from though. My name is Aaron, and I’ve seen it spelled Aron, Arron, etc. Mine is the only correct spelling!!

by AxDxMx on Dec 16, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

We're Biblical

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Erin?

Like off the office… lol

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

big time "is she cute or not" issue lurking

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 17, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

i'd say she's cute/hot/whatever

but just completely pointless, acts like she’s a 4 year old, uninteresting love interest for andy

i dunno… i hate TV shows that just throw random women on the screen and have them love someone

pam & jim was realistic because any woman in that office would have been all over jim and/or michael

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Well they haven't had them date yet

And I think the “chase” has been pretty funny thus far. Once (if?) they actually start dating, its likely to be pretty boring unless they make her character more interesting,

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I would imagine they will make her more interesting

The Office seems to be running a bit on borrowed time. It’s still hilarious, but you just wonder where they can take it from here.

by AxDxMx on Dec 17, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Try teaching in a public school,

I swear half the names I get are spelled the way they are because the parents were too dumb to know the correct spelling.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 16, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Any Laynce's?

I swear that Mr Nix has the most absurd spelling variation ever.

by kcbottom9th on Dec 16, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That's the truth... lol

I’ve seen some weird ones. Here’s my favorite. J-cub. Someone didn’t know the hyphen rules… so they made it up. Jacob only J-cub. I’ve also seen Jaycub.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

My wife has taught a "Princess"

There are some others I can’t remember right now.

by AxDxMx on Dec 17, 2009 3:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I work in public education

My all time favorite name…….Murder Mason….that’s right, first name……Murder.

Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.

by Discodave on Dec 16, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That should turn out well.

by hunter s. royal on Dec 16, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you Discodave

I will now name my first born son “Murder”. Though i think we’re done having children with our 2 girls, so no real issue there.

by AxDxMx on Dec 17, 2009 3:27 AM EST up reply actions  

sister named

Mayhem?

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 17, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

REDRUM!

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 17, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I went to high school with Tenderly Mount.

Poor girl. There was also Chasyn Katz, Kandy Fields, and I graduated with Justin Case.

by BrRoyal on Dec 18, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions  

We've got a couple of guys in here in the top 25 for their positions...

Project Prospect

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 2:31 PM EST reply actions  

6 Wil Myers C/DH Upside alert! Very athletic, elite bat speed, strong arm, good footwork; great debut
10 Eric Hosmer 1B Vision problem may have contributed to ’09 struggles; high ceiling but low floor
11 Johnny Giavotella 2B 5-8/185 frame was as muscular as any I saw in ’09; more BB than K; limited power
11 Mike Moustakas 3B Extreme fly-ball hitter w/ some pop, OK contact skills and very little patience
20 Michael Montgomery LHP Up-and-down 1st full season; was tough to hit, missed a lot of bats and adjusted well to A+

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice Link...

…but did u see who was @ the top of the 1B prospect list, Smoak, would rather had him!!!

by PREGNANT ROLLER SKATE on Dec 16, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't look that far up...

lol

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm excited about our list.

This is a good system now. It’s not the best, but it’s not bad at all.

I’m super excited that I’ll get to see some of the younger guys at AA this season as I plan to head down there for a few games in Springfield and in Springdale. If anyone wants to join me, let me know. I’d be happy to have the company.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Dec 16, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions  

good job NWroyal

i disagree with Hosmer above Moose, but it’s defendable. enjoyed reading your prospect rundowns.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Dec 16, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

thanks.......

goin’ slow unfortunately due to finals week, studying and crap. shouldn’t even be on here as it is, but what the hell. :-) hope to pick up the pace during the holidays.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Dec 16, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

This list is really starting to get pretty impressive.

GMDM has saved himself thus far by getting guys like Melville, Duffy, Myers, and Montgomery outside of the actual first round. His track record for 1st picks is turning out to be sketchy at best. The 2010 season is huge for Hosmer and Mouse. They are both getting dangerously close to being considered busts for that high of a pick. I just wonder what Baird could have done with the same budget GMDM has been afforded.

by Mac'n'Seitz on Dec 16, 2009 3:13 PM EST reply actions  

maybe GMDM should go with a Belichick-like strategy and avoid the high 1st rounders — maybe go signability for first round, then reach for Myers, Melville, etc in the remaining rounds

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 16, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

baird did aight really

he signed some very good pros… the problem was there was never any system depth

by Will McDonald on Dec 16, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

baird absolutely did not do alright

maybe you need to review how bad the drafts from ‘01-’05 were. Greinke, Butler, Howell. Gordon I suppose but that was a complete no-brainer pick. that’s it as far as impact players, and it’s a major stretch to call Howell an “impact player.” also suppose you can give credit for Buckner since he netted us Callaspo, but that’s hardly a tip of the cap to Baird.

only other players from these drafts that have made ANY sort of impact at all are Maier (3rd/4th OF at best), Aviles (we’ll see), and Dusty Hughes (barely counts). hey, 2001 is even better…got a few innings from Devon Lowery and a couple games at 2B from Angel Sanchez. maybe Ka’aihue will do something, but i’m skeptical there.

so to recap, we got two real impact players (Zack, Butler), another potential impact guy (Gordon), a couple relievers (Howell, possibly Hughes), and a 4th outfielder (Maier). even giving extra points for drafting Greinke, that coup STILL sucks as a whole. and if you remember, Baird had to be worked over to draft Zack because he was hell bent on drafting a college player that year.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Dec 16, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

Although as of yet, Dayton has nobody. And in June, he will be in charge of his 4th draft (And he takes credit for Hooch when it suits him to do so, so maybe 5th). Mr Baird had 5 drafts in his time. He was too late for 2000, and he left before 2006.

In those 5 drafts, he drafted a Cy Young winner, a player who was the #1 prospect in all of baseball, a player who is already an excellent hitter and will almost certainly improve further. An outfielder who plays good defense and doesn’t have an embarrassing bat, a SS who had a legit (unlike Berroa) claim on ROTY. Plus the other bits and pieces you mentioned that have since left, but were good enough to get pieces in return. All while being restricted to $1000 bonus’s in the single digit rounds through much of his tenure.

Moore might match that, ultimately, from his first 5 drafts (with his much improved budget). But it is no certain thing right now.

by kcbottom9th on Dec 16, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

And, for clarification

I’m not saying Baird did a good job or anything. Just that he wasn’t as horrific as some revisionists would have us believe.

by kcbottom9th on Dec 16, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed...

What double’s forgetting is that Baird had his financial hands tied not only in mid-late rounds, but in the early rounds too. Butler was widely panned as a signability pick. With Moore, the early returns on his “obvious” picks are questionable at best. The only place where Moore is outdrafting Baird is in sandwich/2-5th rounds, and don’t forget this rough analogy: Mets budget:Marlins budget::Moore’s draft budget:Baird’s draft budget.

Bring back Baird. I LOVED Baird compared to this clown. No joke. He was at least a humble, nice man. Moore has done the absolute minimum with the draft, given his assets. He has drafted the most expensive player available in almost every pre-5th round spot. Not exactly rocket science.

by billexgordler on Dec 16, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm not forgetting anything

for one, you have to give Moore credit for getting Glass to open up the check book on these prospects. Glass didn’t decide spend more on his own.

I don’t think you guys understand how bad he was. you need to be getting at least two guys from each draft that contribute (and Baird had extra comp picks in ‘03 and ’04). I’m willing to cut him a little slack in the ’02 draft because he drafted a once in a decade type arm, but the return still sucks from those five drafts. we got, what, 5 players? awesome!

and yeah, no shit Moore hasn’t had anyone from his drafts compete yet. takes time when you draft high school prospects for the most part. yeah his drafts could suck, but that’s not the point at all. I was pointing out that Baird’s drafts sucked. that was the point I was referring to, wasn’t it? contrary to popular belief, not every post here is or needs to be about how Moore has sucked.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Dec 17, 2009 3:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's wait til 5 years from now and then we'll decide how DM did

I mean, we’re completely looking at Baird with hindsight, while DM’s picks are all current and haven’t necessarily crapped out yet.

by AxDxMx on Dec 17, 2009 3:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes and No...

We knew from year two without a doubt that Greinke and Butler would be major leaguers, possibly very good Major Leaguers. There aren’t two HS draftees from Moore’s drafts that we can say the same thing about.

by billexgordler on Dec 17, 2009 7:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Those were also first rounders

So far none of his first rounders have been complete busts, though Moose and Hosmer might push that. All I’m saying is, we can’t really decide yet til we see some of these guys stick at the same level in the minors for too long, or they make MLB. We’re at least 1-2 years away from truth becoming obvious.

by AxDxMx on Dec 17, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

you're right of course...

but hope’s in short supply if you’re a royals fan, and at least with Butler and Greinke they gave you hope in large doses. hosmer and moose have yet to give much at all. and when there’s so little to look forward to at the ML level (aside from, you guessed it, Butler and Greinke and maybe Gordon) i’m looking for signs from our minor leaguers. That hope is coming only from exactly the types of signability picks that Baird never convinced Glass to let him make.

by billexgordler on Dec 17, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know

I see way more useful MLB guys in our minors right now. Pretty much the whole top 10 of this series of posts. To me, that’s more than we’ve ever had. I think 2011 and 2012 are going to be very interesting from that standpoint. We’ll have 3 new OFers, hopefully a new SS, and a new C, along with injections of talent into the rotation moving some guys like Davies/Banny/Hoch to the pen, or more likely off the team. Despite what I think of Moore, and assuming he doesn’t trade any of these guys, I really think that contending before 2015 is a decent possibility. We were sold a bill of goods on Butler and Gordon. Obviously that was about all we had in the system and 2 guys aren’t going to change much unless they were both Pujols (well we have 1 Pujols type player in Greinke at least).

by AxDxMx on Dec 18, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Hope is a good thing

Maybe the best of things.

And no good thing ever dies.

by NotAHippie on Dec 18, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Baird's drafts sucked

…in large part, and seemingly entirely due to the fact that he was severely handicapped. Any of Butler, Greinke and Gordon would have been the number one prospect in the system at similar points in their careers to our current system. The better system depth is a reflection of the lack of resources only—not skill. It’s very hard to draft on the cheap: see, eg, Billy Beane’s draft record.

You’re absolutely right that Moore deserves credit for getting Glass to spend money on the draft. But as far as I can tell that’s all he deserves credit for.

by billexgordler on Dec 17, 2009 7:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll add to the thanks

Big ups to nwroyal for compiling this list.

At this point, as Royals fans, all we have is our dreams. Rose-tinted or not, I am glad to have the opportunity to ‘project’ toward a (potentially) happier 2012 as a fan…

by Yunielateral Movement on Dec 16, 2009 4:54 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Huge credit to nwroyal for doing the top prospects list! :D

by sterlingice on Dec 17, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

How Many Savvy

Veterans who know how to win could we get for those guys?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions  

Great job nwroyal...

I agree with royalsreview, above. What this list show is that Baird was every bit the drafter that Moore is. It appears now that Moore’s only advantage over Baird is his ability to convince Glass to spend money on the draft. If Baird had Moore’s draft budget, there’s no telling how well he would have done.

by billexgordler on Dec 16, 2009 6:20 PM EST reply actions  

wait, why arent latin players drafted like U.S. players?

My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!

by AvilesRotY on Dec 16, 2009 8:07 PM EST reply actions  

it's in the CBA

their trying to change it for the next one though. pretty much everyone that matters wants a world wide draft.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Dec 17, 2009 3:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Arguelles
Reports are that he is expected to start the season at Wilmington where it will be very interesting to see how he adjusts.

Adjustment shouldn’t be a problem since he’ll have the other Cubans to mentor and teach him all season.

/end GMDMspeak

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 16, 2009 10:00 PM EST reply actions  

Depressed

These guys will all start the season at AA or lower.

by Tito42 on Dec 17, 2009 10:23 AM EST reply actions  

This is probably just semantics, but

I’m curious how Monty gets a resounding #1 with “a good fastball…a very good changeup,” and “the potential for a good curveball” that “needs more consistency” while Crow gets #2 with “a great fastball” and a “plus slider.”

Not saying I disagree with your ranking, I think most would put Monty at numer uno, I just wonder if we shouldn’t season his description a little with “great fastball,” maybe even a “potentially unhittable fastball.” Let’s crank up the hype machine (so we be really jaded if he doesn’t become an ace).

Seriously though, excellent posts, I always have a lot of fun reading them.

*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"

by jackie ballgame on Dec 17, 2009 10:40 AM EST reply actions  

Montgomery already has a good changeup, while Crow's needs work

Crow needs a pitch to throw to opposite-handed batters — preferably a changeup, but a non-slurvy curve (more “12-6” than “10-4”) can work. Unlike a slider, a changeup moves away from opposite-handed hitters. A curveball that essentially drops straight down can do the job too. Sliders are generally ineffective against opposite-handed hitters because they move toward the opposite-handed hitter, which effectively “speeds up” their swings. This why so many pitchers with only a fastball/slider combo end up as relievers — which is what some scouting analysts have suggested might happen to Crow.

The need for a pitch to throw opposite-handed batters is especially true for pitcher like Crow with a sinking fastball — data shows that opposite-handed hitters generally have the most success against sinkers. He needs a weapon — or at least a blunt instrument — to use against left-handed hitters. Changeups, however, are one of the toughest pitches to develop.

by Gopherballs on Dec 17, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Crow already has a decent changeup

let’s stop using old scouting reports. he improved it greatly since his final year at Mizzou. it’s at least league average at this point.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Dec 18, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Monty vs. Crow

Crow is 3 years older than Monty—I think Monty could add some some veolocity, he shows a good feel for pitching that makes me think the curve will come around. As Gopherballs says—a changeup is a tough pitch, Crow just needs to come up with a passable one and he’ll be alright. But I still think Monty has a higher ceiling (but is farther away) than Crow.

by nwroyal on Dec 17, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, as Jon Manuel mentions in the latest Baseball America podcast

It’s a bad sign for a farm system when you see this year’s picks near the top of the prospect rankings (i.e. Crow at #2 and Myers at #4). Then we’ve got Hosmer, who essentially had a lost season, and Dwyer and Arguelles who haven’t thrown a professional pitch yet in the top ten, with other ’09 picks lurking in the top 20. That all equates to a lot of talent-starved Royals fans hoping for the planets to align.

You know what, though, the planets do occasionally align.

*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"

by jackie ballgame on Dec 17, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

There's no guarantee

but on the surface, it sure looks like Moore is doing at least OK with the minor league talent acquisition portion of his duties.

If this turns out to be true, how can a guy be relatively good at evaluating prospects, and then turn around and be so shitty at evaluating ML players (not to mention valuing them as well)?

Biggest fear: Moore is a genuinely good player development guy – so good, that he got promoted to GM, whence the Peter Principal kicked in.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 17, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

how can a guy be relatively good at evaluating prospects, and then turn around and be so shitty at evaluating ML players (not to mention valuing them as well)?

1) Misevaluation of the market; and
2) Misunderstanding of the player age/performance arc

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly

he’s applying the tools to evaluate 17 year olds to 29 year olds and expecting development

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Peter Principle is pretty clearly in play

not that Baird was as good as moore as a development guy, but they seemingly like him as an AGM in Boston — sounds about right to me.

I and others have commented before that Moore’s problem with established major league talent may very well be that he tries to evaluate them the same way as young talent. Talent in high school, college, and the low minors need primarily scouting to evaluate them because of their uneven competition, different aging curves, physical and mental development, etc. YOu n eed the scouts badly there.

Scouting is always essential. However, once a player has been in the bigs a few years, is in his mid-to-late 20s, there generaly isn’t much “breakout” potential. It doesn’t matter nearly as much how much “potential” your scout sees in the 27-year old SS who sometimes looks great going to his left and sometimes has power. If he’s been OPBing around .300 for three years, and gets to far less balls than most SSes, that’s just who he is at that point. A 31 year-old OF with a great arm isn’t showing his “hit tool” is back in one season, those injuries and the decreasing range are more likely who he is — no amount of “competitive fire” is going to slow the aging process.

And so on.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 17, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What I should have said

How can Moore be so dumb as to not recogize that there may be different (better) methods to evaluate ML talent.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 17, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

maybe we should drop a note in the comment box

that GMDM should focus on acquiring ML players that are still sort of like prospects b/c of young age or limited PT, like Callaspo or Soria — guys whose potential had not yet been established when the Royals got them.

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 17, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Question
it sure looks like Moore is doing at least OK with the minor league talent acquisition portion of his duties.

Is he doing anything more than a shitty gm would do given the same budget for the minors? I’ll even allow for special credit to Arguelles. Doing well with minor league talent acquisition would be adding to AA and AAA creatively, have the Royals added any prospects to those areas? The Humber signing is one. And no, I don’t count Tug.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 17, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

Thank you for your very high quality posts. I look forward to reading each new post. Much appreciated. You should get some coin from the Star to have these published.

Overall my biggest comment is that we do not have any real help for 2010. Really these guys wont be ready to seriously make a difference in our record until 2012. However, if we keep up the good pace, the system should be able to provide us with winning ball players for years to come.

by T.Fletch on Dec 17, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

The short answer is: No, there is no help in 2010

just as there was no help in 2009. Very sad that a farm system of a small market team would be like that. I don’t think any team without a $100 million payroll can succeed with that kind of drought.

by nwroyal on Dec 17, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the post

when I want to read something to make me feel good and look to the future, I read your posts. I just wish we didn’t always have to look 2-3 years down the road (seems like we have been asked to do that for the past decade, although there really does seem to be true prospects in the system). I hope that Greinke gets to pitch with a couple of these youngsters, that could be an awesome rotation.

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 18, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions  

Apologies if this has been covered

I’m liking the palm tree photo… but how does it relate? Arguelles’ former home?

*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"

by jackie ballgame on Dec 19, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions  

Wait, never mind...

I think that was an ad, it looked like a photo that was pasted into the article. Clever ad people!

*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"

by jackie ballgame on Dec 19, 2009 3:20 PM EST reply actions  

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