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How Dayton Moore Can Have a Comeback Year

After an intriguing beginning to his tenure as the General Manager of the Royals, Dayton Moore floundered in 2008 and 2009. Good moves started to give way to bizarre ones, and by the end of 2009, at least at the Major League level, Moore looked like one of the more clueless transaction hounds in the business. Dealing with criticism for the first time in his professional life, Moore, and the rest of his leadership team adopted a bunker mentality that only made them look worse. His in-season 2009 moves look almost vindictive: I will keep finding out-machines who suck defensively and there's nothing you can do about it!

Still, I don't know if Dayton Moore is destined to succeed or fail as the GM of the Royals. He played a large part in making the 2008-9 Royals bad and he's setup the 2010 Royals to be a bad team as well. Moreover, his refusal to actually rebuild on a large scale has pushed back the timeline for true contention in Kansas City. All of that being said, he did inherit a franchise in shambles and since he has the support of ownership, he still has time to have long-term success. It just won't happen soon.

But if the Royals are ever going to win under Moore, and we're talking 2011-13 here, the comeback needs to start now. Organizationally, the Royals can't have another lost year. Here's how Moore can start to turn it around:

Star-divide

  • Have a Relatively Non-Horrible Winter on the Free Agent Market: This one has already been partially shot by the horrific Jason Kendall signing, a move which made the Royals older, worse, more expensive. Yes, the Kendall signing was a moderate financial outlay, and yes, this is what nearly all baseball teams do. However, the Royals are not a large market or even middle market team. They are in the 28th-30th range. The pointless millions you spend on the Kendalls & Farnsworths of the world add up, and pretty soon you're making bad baseball decisions because you need to get under some arbitrary payroll number. Like, oh look, they did with the catching situation. The circle of horribleness is completed. So step one of this off-season needs to be no more pointless pickups with wasted millions and years tied up.
  • Be Honest About Where the Team Is: Dayton needs to go outside of the organization and have a few honest conversations with "baseball men" that he trusts. People that can be honest with him. He needs to talk to people about if the Royals can compete in 2011. If the Royals can compete in 2012. Where the rest of the division is going. Etc. There's no shortage of agreement within the organization about two things: it was terrible when they took over and everyone is currently doing a great job. They need to move beyond that now. They need to figure out where they are. They need a new finish line, other than "it sucks here, we've got work to do".
  • Actually Commit to the Rebuild: My hunch is, the advice will, or would, lead to one conclusion: the Royals have work to do. I love Zack Greinke, but the Royals can't base their decisions around keeping him happy or not wasting him in his prime. He's going to be around for awhile, so we can punt on 2010. I think, for the most part, the Royals have done this, although we can't be completely sure for the next few weeks. The Royals don't have to do a complete teardown, as they actually have some pieces in place, but they need to be aggressive in exploring trade possibilities involving Gil Meche, Joakim Soria, David DeJesus, Alberto Callaspo, etc. They can also go the other way, and trade one of their prospects for a soon-to-be-ready young Major Leaguer with numerous controlled-years remaining. The mindset needs to change. They need to view what they currently have as a way of getting somewhere better, not as part of some masterplan already coming together. If Billy Butler has a monster first half, shop him (he's already burned through a ton of service time and handles the easiest to fill position).
  • Lean on Your Skills: Dayton earned a sterling reputation as a scouting and player development guy. We know what he is. He's not a guy that's going to embrace new ideas, different voices. He's not going to diversify his portfolio. Which sucks, but it is what it is. In that case, he needs to go all in with what he does well: scouting and evaluating young players. Embrace that part of his identity and stop looking for the next Gil Meche signing. Moreover, this is also the identity of his top assistants. So go for it. Prove to us you're the best evaluators of young studs and overlooked aces around. To be honest, Dayton Moore has been an absolute disaster involving transactions at the Major League level. In a manner of speaking, he needs to gas up the rental car and hit the sandlot circuit again. He needs to spend less time enacting bizarre fantasies involving the Ross Gloads and Willie Bloomquists of the world. We get it: those guys are great and help you win and all the rest. Except they don't and we keep losing. If Dayton is the guy we think we hired, he remains a great option to aggressively rebuild the team by scouting amateur and minor league talent. We need that guy back.
  • Strengthen Your Standing in the Community: I use "community" broadly here: the baseball community, the Kansas City community, your relationships inside the organization. If this Dayton Moore thing is going to work at all, then ownership has to remain committed to being the Yankees of the amateur spending market. And much of that goes back to reputation and belief. To this point, against a lot of evidence to the contrary, they've believed in Dayton Moore. Will that last forever? To be blunt, 2009 sucked: the Royals sucked and the leadership team repeatedly came across as petty, vindictive, & paranoid. The local and national baseball media began to be much more critical of the Royals and a lot of the benefit of the doubt and goodwill Moore earned withered away. The Royals are in the entertainment business, and if the team continues to behave in the way it has over the last year, things are going to get a lot worse. At a certain point, the perception amongst the fans and the media gets so negative that the environment becomes too toxic to continue. I'm not saying Dayton Moore needs to hire Nate Silver. I'm not saying that Rany should throw out the first pitch on Opening Day. Let's start small and admit just one mistake. One. Let's work on restoring normal relations with the local media. Stop lecturing everyone. Stop saying dumb things. Basically, disappear for months at a time, and when you emerge, be engaging and humble rather than holier than thou. Dayton Moore needs Joe Posnanski back on his side. Ownership does not want to be a national joke, which is why they hired Moore. It's somewhat amazing that Moore himself seems to have lost sight of this. At present, a huge percentage of whatever success the Royals have had drafting lies at the credit of ownership, who has spent money. If they lose faith in Moore's ability to execute and roll back the budget, the goose is cooked.

There's another bullet point that we could add that would be something like Have Another Good Draft, but really, I think that's self-evident. Likewise, the Royal system needs something of a comeback year. That one isn't so much self-evident, as perhaps not entirely in Dayton's hands at this point. The little decisions that add up to developing players... well, the Royals need to hit a home run in 2010.

As you can see, many of these steps are inter-related. The ironic thing is, if the Royals were to fire Dayton Moore, someone like Dayton Moore would be precisely the kind of person they would be looking at to replace him.

The comeback needs to start now.

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Comments

Display:

yeah

man i wish i were young again, or any of those things really

by who am i? on Dec 17, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh.

Life is ultimately the same either way.

by Bornin85 on Dec 17, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Evidently

Your not ugly, poor, and old

by wt on Dec 17, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm No Leading

Man in Hollywood, but women tell me I look good naked. What else matters?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 17, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

with the lights out?

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 18, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

In The Hot

Tub under the midnight sun.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 19, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Dean Wormer, meet Alberto “Flounder” Callaspo

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 18, 2009 11:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I would

like us to call Boston and see if they would be interested in dealing Hermida now that they have signed Mike Cameron.

by powder blues on Dec 17, 2009 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

Dayton

would get seriously ripped off.

Air Cassel - approved for takeoff

by kabrink on Dec 17, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on what they would want

Hermida isn’t that great… sort of another Mark Teahen. He might have some offensive upside, and he’s only 26 next season, but his outfield defense is below average, at best, and he’s only got a couple years of arb left.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 17, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess

i am being teased by his offensive upside like you mentioned. I know he struggles against lefties, but is one of those prospects that was once highly praised that we should take a chance on. The upside to me is much greater than what Teahen showed. Dealing with Epstein might not be the wisest of ideas though.

by powder blues on Dec 17, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

epstein is good for some weird moves

they seem to basically give a guy away once or twice a season, but usually to a large market club who eats salary

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Beckett

is a nice SP and has helped Boston, but you think he wouldn’t like to have Hanley Ramirez playing SS for him.

by powder blues on Dec 17, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't particularly like Hermida

But flawed young players with potential is the exact kind of guy we should be taking a gamble on.

The service time is a bit of an issue though.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

oh sure

he beats any other current options the Royals have for right field, too

I’m just saying it’s not worth going nuts trying to get him. I think Pie is clearly worth more in trade, and probably Gardner, too (just two examples).

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 17, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure

But it probably wouldn’t take too much to get him. Boston got him for what, two AAAA type relievers?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

My Eyes Tell

Me he’s a Hawpesque bad fielder.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 17, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Thankfully, It Does

Not apply to any of the Royals.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 20, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks RR

Nice evaluation.

Nice to read something other than the usual “david glass is a cheapskate”. Fact is the team is BUSINESS, and David Glass or any other owner does not owe anything to the fans. Comparisions between him & mr K are ignorant. In Mr K’s day he could toss in an extra million from his vast fortune and add one of the top players in the league. Currently it takes $15-25MM per year for a top tier FA.

Mr Glass only has moderate wealth but it would take $50MM a year additional to even make the team moderately competitive from where we are.

As we complain about the beer prices at the K, we also complain that we can’t keep the Beltrans & sign the Lackeys.

The FISCAL moves are at least as important as the BASEBALL moves to this team.

If we can’t get an affordable LONG TERM CF, leave maier out there. Spend the resources to make sure we have one coming up or signed in 2011, 2012 or whatever the target year is. Same at shortstop & catcher.. oh wait….

by who am i? on Dec 17, 2009 3:00 PM EST reply actions  

I have to disagree a little bit

It’s not accurate to describe Ewing Kauffmann as having a vast fortune and then say that David Glass only has moderate wealth. The man has a fortune worth around a half billion dollars. You aren’t a CEO of Wal-Mart for almost 20 years and come away with only moderate wealth. Also, the Royals could be competitive by adding a lot less than $50MM a year. To be sure, it wouldn’t matter anyway if Moore spends it on players like Jose Guillen or Jason Kendall or any number of players he has signed.

The marginal increase in revenue from increasing the price of beer by a dollar or two pales in comparison to the amount of money Glass gets from the revenue sharing deal. Jayson Stark has said that the Royals probably get in excess of $10MM per year from revenue sharing. This team is resource strapped because 1) Moore wastes money (as royalsreview has shown) but also 2) David Glass still doesn’t spend as much as he could and still make a profit (although, we’ll never know the actual numbers until they open up their books).

by KCBear on Dec 17, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

moderate is a realitive term

No we don’t know the books, but…

If Glass has 500MM personal wealth, and has the generousity (or stupidity) to toss in $50MM a year to buy the right players, in 10 years he’s broke. That’s the Tom Hicks strategy and look how well that has done.

Glass has shown a willingness to open up some money if the right situation come along (and several wrong situations). But I am tired of hearing that his ‘cheapness’ is the root of the royals problems. Would YOU give DM a checkbook?

View the MLB team payrolls and you’ll notice that many of the top payroll teams are in contention, and there are several that arent. So yes, smart moves are better than dumb ones.

As for the beer comment, obviously hgher beer price wont bring us $20MM free agents., but it’s hypocritical to complain about what it costs us to go to a game while demanding that the team owner throw HIS money away

Bottom line is that it’s not the money, but how it is spent..

by who am i? on Dec 17, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that how money is spent is priority number one

And I also didn’t suggest that if Glass would just spend another $50MM a year that we would be successful. I am saying that he could probably spend another $10MM a year or so and still make a profit on the team, and I think that could make a big difference.

I also think it’s hypocritical to say that he shouldn’t give Moore money to spend because of how he’s used it. Glass just signed him to a long extension. If he doesn’t trust Moore to spend his money, he shouldn’t have resigned him.

Glass has definitely spent more money in recent years, but he spent practically nothing before. It’s like going from an F to a C+. Sure, it’s an improvement, but you’re still not going to make the honor roll.

I don’t know who was complaining about beer to begin with, but fans are always going to complain about the price of concessions. It’s price gouging, and people are never going to be happy about it. It happens at every sporting event (or movie or concert or whatever) and Royals fans aren’t being hypocritical to complain about it. Unless you are wealthy enough that you just don’t care, who isn’t going to be a little pissed that they paid $8 for a Miller Lite.

by KCBear on Dec 17, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

You're tired of hearing about Glass' cheapness being the root of the Royals problems?

Sorry to inform you – but one of the reasons the franchise got into the state of disrepair that it is undoubtedly his short-sighted, cheap approach to the draft.

To be fair, it may not be the only reason the Royals have sucked for 15 years – but in my opinion it is the LEADING reason by far.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 17, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

the spiral

began after mr k died. The commitee wouldnt spend money or commit to any strategy. the ML roster & the farm system were completely depleted. Glass has been the owner for 9 years. (yes I know he was on board)

As bad as the team is this year, i wouldnt trade them for the 1999-2000 bunch. -system wide

by who am i? on Dec 17, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

At least the hitters on the MLB team in 2000 were exciting

Damon, Beltran, Dye, Sweeney. Damn they scored a lot of runs that year. The pitchers gave up quite a few too.

by AxDxMx on Dec 18, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

yes, it was a committee,

but Glass was the main man on that committee. He was the one Kaufmann entrusted to ensure baseball remained in KC.

I’ll give Glass credit for doing that – he kept baseball in KC as Kaufmann wanted. Beyond that, he did next to nothing to make the team a viable, competitive part of the A.L.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 18, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Dead Horse

Going on about Glass spending money is just beating a dead horse. It’s an issue and everyone knows it. Glass has started to let GMDM spend money and it isn’t doing us any good. Spending money for the sake of spending money is worse than being cheap. The club needs to improve on talent evaluation and coaching before they worry about splashing millions on the market.

by TampaRoyal on Dec 18, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

In today's dollars

Mr. K was way, way, way wealthier than Glass.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on Dec 17, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

More then anything..

i would just like to see us commit to rebuilding. it is getting harder and harder to care with the constant stupid moves moore makes.

by c_town6128 on Dec 17, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions  

+1 on well said

What disturbs me the most about this offseason is all of the small transactions going on (Bullington, Humber, etc). Don’t get me wrong, I love these moves, and think these are the types of moves that Dayton should’ve been making all along.

What bothers me about them though, is that it really shows how Dayton tried to “go for it all” in 2009. The Bloomquist, Ponson, Chen, Farnsworth, etc. we’re really his attempt to try to win the central. Will the Gloads/Bloomquists/etc. moves resume when he thinks he has another shot at the central?

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Dec 17, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions  

I think getting Gloads and Bloomquists make some sense when you are in contention

Philly just signed Gload for example and I think he’ll be useful there. But I don’t think they are the bridge that gets you to contention, and I think its folly to spend money on those kind of players while you’re building to that point, when your resources can be much better spend elsewhere.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I don't even think Gload makes sense for Philly

people like Ruben and Dayton think it makes sense, and it won’t show as much on a good team where he’s on the bench, but why not get a 1B that might actually be useful if he has to play, like JOsh Phelps, Jeff Bailey… heck, I bet Eric Hinske would take less to sign than Gload, is every bit as “good” defensively (probably better) and can actually, you know, hit.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 17, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

every team`

needs role players……

….but the size of the role should be directly proportional to the ability of the player.

by who am i? on Dec 17, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

agree

Gload and Bloomquist make sense when you have a winning team in place, and are trying to add the finishing bench pieces to the puzzle.

In the case of the Royals, one of Moore’s biggest mistakes was thinking the organization was way closer to being a winning team than it was, and underestimating HOW poor the support system in the minors was. I understand his enthusiasm to turn things around could have easily got the better of him, thus causing his misguided approach on the ML level.

To his credit, he sorta admitted this, in so many words, this offseason. Of course, his actions only partially show this – as signing the Cuban pitcher was an admirable long-term expenditure – but he still couldn’t resist wasting resources on a short-term fix at catcher.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 17, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

trust me

Being good looking, youngish and rich is not all it is cracked up to be.

And Gopherballs, please don’t let yourself use the word “hopefully” when speaking of the Royals, unless your intent is to be ironic…

StonewallPDS

by StonewallPDS on Dec 17, 2009 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Well said

I like, in particularl “lean on your skills.” Look, Dayton is never going to get an article published in Baseball Prospectus. He is what he is, a scout who doesn’t get defensive metrics. I don’t see that changing. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. If he can build a Braves-type minor league system, well then I don’t even think his stupid MLB transactions can prevent us from having a certain level of success.

The best way Dayton can turn his career as Royals GM around is to pretty much forgo MLB free agents, and re-assign that money towards the amateur draft and international free agents. His scout’s eye is much better suited projecting 20 year olds, rather than 27 year old busts.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions  

I agree that RR is making a really good point there

It seems like the main three responsibilities of a GM are drafting/player development, PR, and Major League transactions. I think the good news is that Dayton is really good at the one that seems the most difficult. The bad news is that he sucks at the other two.

by KCBear on Dec 17, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

PR isn't a top priority

but he’s got to be constantly selling his vision to the owners, media, & fans

he needs to improve

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

He doesn't have time to "educate" or "sell"

the fans or media on The Process. The Process is an all-consuming endeavor that eats up every last minute of Dayton’s time…as it should. Leave the PR to the K Crew, Tim Scott, whoever wants to get in those fuzzy hot dog suits, and Sluggerrrrr (did I get enough R’s? or too many?).

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 17, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right

I guess what I meant is that he’s the face of the ownership to most people. Nobody ever sees Glass. I was trying to get at how poorly he’s handled the media and the comments he’s made lecturing the fans.

by KCBear on Dec 17, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

hey now

we get that one Glass story in the Star around midseason ever year… what more do you want?

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly,

and I would add that it wouldn’t hurt to be a LOT more candid about his approach with the media and the fans. Tell us what you are doing, and why, and explain that it WILL take a lot of patience on our part, but if he does his job well, we will be rewarded HANDSOMELY for our patience. Let everyone know how bereft the farm system was prior to Glass’ change of business direction, and explain that it might take 5,6,7? years to get the system to where it needs to be before we can even BEGIN to think about contending. Tell us that means don’t expect anything before 20xx, even if it is as late as 2013 or 2014! I just want to see that you have a plan that might work long-term.

I know I would accept a couple more 100+ loss seasons if I could understand and see what “The Process” is.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Dec 17, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

by the way

There ain’t gonna be no comeback.

StonewallPDS

by StonewallPDS on Dec 17, 2009 3:52 PM EST reply actions  

So much

for some positive talk. Get your fucking negativity out of here. Door is to the left.

by powder blues on Dec 17, 2009 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

Yes, we only accept people that agree with us.

Take your dissent elsewhere! Everything is sunshine and roses here at Kauffman Stadium sir!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 17, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

A post detailing a plan for DM’s comeback presupposes that a comeback is necessary – hard to avoid negativity in such a premise.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 17, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

you're right

we just need to stay the course

no comeback needed

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

if you want positive this isn’t the place for you.

hell some certain posters managed to turn the Greinke Wins Cy thread into a Dayton sucks thread.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Dec 18, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm torn...

because I want Moore to trade people, but I’m scared of the trades he’ll make

by Will McDonald on Dec 17, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

That constant fear

Makes being a Royals fan exciting!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

exciting = royals' new euphamism

my take on being afraid of DM’s trades is that he’s going to have to sink or swim, and at least if he makes several trades we can start to see (expose) his true value (or lack thereof) as GM (not so much “we” the fans, more like “we” the people who will determine if he is the solution to the problem or just the problem).

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 17, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

in fairness to Moore

His trades haven’t been that bad.

Dotel for Davies
Buckner for Callaspo
Teahen for Fields/Getz
Ramirez for Crisp
Howell for Gathright
Burgos for Bannister
HoRam pt. 1 for Paolo Orlando
Affeldt for Shealy/Dohmann
Graffanino for JDLR
Keppinger for Gotay
Keppinger for PTBNL
Erik Cordier for TPJ
Roman Colon for PTBNL
Nunez for Mike Jacobs

It’s his FA signings that royally suck ass. basically, he had the Meche signing and then fall off of a cliff. I fear he’s doomed to be the one-hit wonder of GM’s when it comes to FA signings

Waiting for April.

by DC Royal on Dec 17, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

good point

as always, the recent past stands out most prominently in our minds—in particular, Nunez for Jacobs (not because Nunez was so good, but because Jacobs so bad — then again, it wasn’t really the trade itself so much as the $3M contract that was part of the deal).

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 17, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

There are quite a few trades there listed that he shouldn't be proud of or that will result in more of a loss than gain.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 17, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Lumsden for Parraz

Did he trade Colon? I haven’t heard that.

by SK on Dec 17, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his trade record is pretty meh

No real stinkers other than the Howell deal, no real great trades other than the Callaspo and Banny deals.

Really, a small market team needs to get lucky and pull a Grady Sizemore/Cliff Lee/Brandon Phillips for Colon or Joe Nathan/Francisco Liriano/Boof Bonser for Pierzynski deal once in awhile to have much chance of success. “Meh” just won’t cut it.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to have a Colon

in order to make that kind of trade. We don’t, and haven’t for awhile. The options are “trade crap for crap” or “trade the franchise on a bunch of dice rolls.”

(Keep in mind, “a Colon” = “a player with perceived high value that’s worth getting rid of because he’s not as good as people think.”)

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on Dec 17, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

We have a few Pierzynski type players

And honestly, I think Soria fits the Colon category.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 18, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Disagree.

Soria doesn’t have the perceived high value because he hasn’t been used properly. He’s one of those guys that people know is good, but you can’t swing a Colon deal with him because his traditional numbers aren’t impressive.

There’s also the small matter of Colon having won the Cy Young.

And who do we have that’s a Pierzynski? The only guys I can think of who have his particular sort of cachet… look, they clearly suck, and we’re the only team that doesn’t realize it. Pierzynski is actually a useful player, just not as useful as his fans would like you to believe. And, of course, part of AJ’s value is his position… the only possibility there is if some team’s desperate for a warm body to stand between first and second base, and even then there’s no way you’re getting three arms for one Prince Alberto in a Can. Hell, I don’t think you could get three arms for anyone on this team other than Zack.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on Dec 18, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

DJ for one

Gilgameche, if they were willing to eat some money and he shows he is healthy. Possibly Banny if he repeats his performance.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 18, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I should be clear

I don’t think we can get 3 arms for any of those guys (only Brian Sabean was that stupid), but we could get 2 arms.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 18, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Dayton has a major trading chip

He has a young Cy Young winner under team control and a team-friendly contract for three more seasons. He could have his pick of other teams farm systems if he made Zack available.

It may not be the best idea or the right time to trade Zack, but he could repair a lot of the farm system holes by doing so.

I don’t expect to see any bold trades though. Dayton seems averse to making “big” trades.

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Dec 18, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

They should trade him to anyone who will take the salary

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 18, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

They won't get much back

but the best reasonable expectation is that he’ll be just worth it these last two years. MOre likely, he’ll fall short.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 18, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh...

DDJ is MORE useful than just about anyone outside of us believes. He’s like the anti-Pierzynski. I was contemplating pointing this out in my response, but decided I probably didn’t need to.

Boy, do I feel silly now.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on Dec 18, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

They are in the 28th-30th range.

They are in the bottom decile.

you're welcome

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 17, 2009 4:13 PM EST reply actions  

Great piece

Some excellent points. Would that someone in the Royals’ front office would read it…

by cookierojas73 on Dec 17, 2009 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

Good read.

If only in the next collective bargaining agreement, rules are changed so that once a player makes his MLB debut, he can never play for any other major league team ever, we’d have a good passable GM.

It’s great that he’s had good drafts and some shrewd minor league acquisitions. However, until he can evaluate major league talent, we’re cooked. Dayton would be (and by all accounts was) a great sidekick to a real GM, but I’d rather have an actual GM.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 17, 2009 8:42 PM EST reply actions  

excellent write up

pretty much spot on. stop with the bad FA signings and commit to building the farm.

"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 17, 2009 11:10 PM EST reply actions  

I stopped reading after

Trade Billy Butler if he has a monster first off. That is beyond ignorant. Who cares if it’s the easiest position to fill, that doesnt mean you can fill it. How many prospects have failed from this organization? Too many to count. Why trade away a star player you developed again? The Royals have to start keeping some of these guys and Butler is young, hits well in our huge stadium, and is liked by the fans. Id trade Zack before I traded Billy since this team has plenty of good pitching in the pipeline. But right handed hitters? Zilch. Lefties just cant hit for power here. Look at Royals top Home Run seasons, besides Brett they are all right handed.

by KCG816 on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 AM EST reply actions  

It's a symetrical stadium

It has no bearing on the hitting of one hand or the other.

by kcbottom9th on Dec 18, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I knows its symetrical

Look at the stats. Brett had power, the stadium just doesnt suit lefties. It’s why Im all for trading Gordon. Look at how Jacobs couldnt get the ball out here. I seen him crush tons of balls last year that died in Right-Center. The wind almost always blows in from right, its like clockwork.

by KCG816 on Dec 19, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I must agree that you can't trade Butler.

Billy IS our offense. You just can’t give up the main piece of an awful offense. Our pitchers already have to damn near shut teams out nightly.

Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.

by royaldaddy on Dec 18, 2009 3:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I'd hate to see it BamBam traded, but

this organization needs a lot of help before they are ready to compete year in and year out. Trading a guy like Butler (if the price is right) is the kind of deal that brings in more talent than you giving up. For a team like the Royals, they ought to be trying to do that.

Butler’s probably my favorite Royal, doesn’t mean I can’t find a new one if he is traded for the right pieces.

I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Dec 18, 2009 6:53 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly...

obviously, the price has to be right

you don’t trade anyone just because

I love billy, but he’s about to start getting expensive, and if you can get two prospects for him, you’d have to think about it

by Will McDonald on Dec 18, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course, that has nothing to do

with the fact that the Royals have never gone out and signed left-handed power hitters or anything.

Also, I was completely unaware that John Mayberry was actually a right-handed hitter. Willie Aikens, too? Boy, do I feel dumb now.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on Dec 18, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

you'd trade Greinke over Butler

you’d trade one of the best 5 players in the entire game over, maybe, the 10th best 1B in the AL?

by Will McDonald on Dec 18, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, Billy was almost average this year

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 18, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

You tool. You think after he has one great year he’s one of the 5 best in the game Get over your homerism. Grienke also had one of the worst pitching seasons this decade as well if dont remember. Yes I would trade a head case pitcher who doesnt enjoy baseball over a young productive everday player.

by KCG816 on Dec 19, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Where to start?

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

by Warden11 on Dec 19, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Yea I just made all that ip

 Year Team G GS W L CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
2005 KC 33 33 5 17 2 0 183.0 233 125 118 23 53 114 5.80 1.56 .309

You guys have some sort of strange dreams in your head that every minor leaguer will be a star and that Greinke is the 2nd coming of Sandy Koufax.

What you dont realize is that the Royals have two players on their entire team that theyve drafted that have proved to be good major leaguers. I like Zack as much as the next guy but Im not ready to bet the farm on him. Yea he had an amazing season, he also had a terrible one. Lets wait and see how things turn out.

by KCG816 on Dec 19, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Evceryone chill, we can have a relaxed discussion about this, right?

One season doesn’t make a career, but Greinke is yoiung, and even over the last three years he’s been one of the best 5 piitchers in baseball

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=6&season=2009&month=12

And that’s without adjusting for leagues. Not on my own computer, but I think Greinke (or lincecum) is the youngest guy on that list.

Butler is an exciting young hitter, but he’s iffy even as a 1B, and he’s one of the worst baserunners in baseball. He’sa good chip/talent, but his ceiling is pretty much overrated RBI guy a la Ryan HOward or Justin Morneau. I wouldn’t take two of those guys for Greinke, who looks like he’s probably in the Hallday/Sabathia/Lincecum class of “franchise pitchers.”

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 19, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, it's not likely Greinke's good season came out of nowhere

Sure he’s had some really bad stuff, but he was also dealing with other issues at that time. Hopefully, those are behind him now.

by AxDxMx on Dec 20, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Another guy that had one of the worst pitching seasons this decade

Roy Halladay. That bum!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 21, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

true

let’s just trust the process

by Will McDonald on Dec 18, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

No! A thousand times, No!

Throttle The Process, hurl it to the ground, and stamp the life out of it before gibbeting it at the nearest crossroads. Preferably the junction of I-70 and 435.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Dec 18, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

well now we can add a starting centerfielder to the list...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/padres-crisp-talking-deal.html

as much as i have hoped he would come back this year, after hearing JJ Piccolo say in person, that Coco loved KC and the odds of him not coming back for 2010 were very low, i had definitely had coco penciled in as our starting cf and leadoff man….

oh well…trust the process….right?

by eschneid on Dec 18, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions  

To me it just doesn't make sense

to trade Butler. We need good players, right? I understand you have to give up something to get something, but he’s very young and still has major upside. We’re not talking something like the Pirates trading away Jason Bay while he still has value, we’re talking about trading away someone who hasn’t even reached his full value.

It would be much better to trade away Meche, much as I like him, or DDJ, who is dependable and solid, or even Callaspo, who has proven he can hit the ball and take a walk. We know more or less how good these guys are going to be over the next two or three years. We still have no idea about how good Butler’s going to be. I’d hate to give him up for the equivalent of Teahen and Buck.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Dec 18, 2009 5:05 PM EST reply actions  

it all depends on the trade

but the royals need to be open to the possibility

by Will McDonald on Dec 18, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

what benfunke would have said is

Tampa seems like a good option (excluding the GMDM gets fleeced by sabermetric GM’s thingy) — they need a good 1B/DH as Pena gets too old/too expensive, and they are overflowing with solid AAA prospects that they don’t have room for.

You used to know me as benf.... Now you know my true identity...MacGyver

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 18, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

that would be cool

but too much work (and probably confusing)

i had thought the other day whether it would be fun to create an alter-personality, such as someone who doesn’t believe in stats analysis and just runs around antagonizing the stat guys. kind of, but i bet it gets old

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 18, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

oops, sbn keeps logging me in as my former self (just learned to fix that by removing cookies)

You used to know me as benf.... Now you know my true identity...MacGyver

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 20, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

It would have to be a damned good offer

because Butler’s potential as a hitter is very high. I wouldn’t take any less for him than, say, what the Twins would take for Justin Morneau.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Dec 18, 2009 5:16 PM EST reply actions  

YOu could make a strong argument for Butler being more valuable

Morneau is the superior player, but he’s being paid right in line with his expected production, whereas Butler is still under inexpensive team control for a few more years

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 18, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I do not like Dayton Moore

BUT… I’d like to play devil’s advocate for a moment. I know DM used injuries as his primary excuse for failure this past season—which I personally find annoying—but injuries did lead to a good chunk of his terrible moves and Hillman’s misuse of Teahen.

The team would NOT have been in contention, but where would they have finished if Gordon, Aviles, Coco, JoGui, had played 140 games? The team I saw at the beginning of the season was very intriguing and that’s why the word “contention” was even uttered in Surprise, AZ last spring.

Keep in mind, none of what I just mentioned has anything to do with pitching, and the bullpen was arguably the biggest disaster of 2009.

by i before e except after Grrr on Dec 18, 2009 7:55 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks

I realized the other day that I have never corrected my problem with misspelling the word “receive” due to the fact that it is almost always corrected for me in Microsoft Word. “Greinke,” however, is not a word that is auto-corrected (neither is “Grienke” for that matter), so I was reminded of that little saying from elementary school and I applied it to the diamond. The only thing that really matters in life.

by i before e except after Grrr on Dec 19, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

again, not a reprieve for Moore,

but he decided to take a shot at the Central. he needed the stars to align, such as these players to stay healthy. now was his outlook on the potential for the team relative to the division in 2009 may have been totally wrong (and/or certifiably insane), but taking a shot in a weak division at least sounds like it might provide some perspective on the moves made.

Blank

by benfunke on Dec 18, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

If he had to get lucky with the players he assembled

he should have stuck with what he had and hoped to get lucky. What a waste.

by AxDxMx on Dec 19, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I will take his crappy defense

and half-assed jogs to first base over Josh Anderson any day. Now, had Coco not been injured, our outfield would have likely been DDJ-Coco-Maier… I’m actually quite okay with that for a team that is rebuilding…. or should I say, in Process.

by i before e except after Grrr on Dec 19, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

we're gonna win the series

you’re all fools…

where's ross gload to explode the process?

by blue bandwagon on Dec 19, 2009 6:59 PM EST reply actions  

Glad to see a positive article :)

It’s nice for a change, every once in a while

by sterlingice on Dec 20, 2009 2:27 AM EST reply actions  

Brayan Pena's weight...

He’s listed as 210 lbs. Seems a bit off. Also, Moore should go after Damon.

by Ross_perot's_penis_and_testicles on Dec 20, 2009 5:33 AM EST reply actions  

I loved the Teahen trade by the way

Damon is still productive and in the latter part of his career, we might be able to coax him back to the royals. That would take care of the outfield. I think the infield will be solid, possibly gelatinous if Collaspo can transition to 3rd, getz at second, aviles and… sigh, betancourt at short. We should probably let Gordon spend all season in Triple A. Kendall was the dumbest move Moore has made to date. That or trading Nunez and Ramirez. Those guys are going to be stars for years to come. Kind of wishing we had Baird back. Kind of wishing David Glass was dead or had Alzheimer’s so he could be taken advantage of. I think we should take Bannister out behind the barn and shoot him. And if we don’t lock up Butler, Collaspo and Dejesus, I’m going to have an aneurysm. You can’t get rid of guys like that. I might sign Davies to a cheap multi-year deal as well. He’s young and has major stuff. I believe his consistency is coming. Hochevar too. If Aaron Crow is as good as advertised, KC could have one of the top rotations in 4 years. Does Hochevar remind anyone else of J.P. Howell? Mostly the draft order and how young they are. What did we Howell for again? The Tampa Bay organist? Great rendition of Baby Elephant Walk by the way.

by Ross_perot's_penis_and_testicles on Dec 20, 2009 5:53 AM EST up reply actions  

indeed

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 20, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

The Post Itself

Is an odd one, but it pales in comparison to the name attached to it. I can’t wait for him (or her?) to add an avatar.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 20, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I had no idea

Ross was so well-endowed.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on Dec 22, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

So...

Nunez and Ramirez are gonna be stars for years to come, and we should let Gordon spend the whole season in AAA?

My head hurts from thinking about that.

by NotAHippie on Dec 21, 2009 2:40 AM EST up reply actions  

DM's had an okay offseason

He’s mostly figured out which contracts on the team are pointless albatrosses and let them go in cases where he doesn’t have to eat multiple millions. OTOH, I completely expect him to ruin any credibility he’s built up during the offseason sometime during the year by handing out extensions to “one of the best baseball men of his generation” and Willie Bloomquist, who the Royals clearly believe is one of DM’s best acquisitions ever.

by swing and a miss on Dec 21, 2009 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

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