Melky shipped to ATL for Vazquez
The Yanks got their starter.
Melky and Mike Dunn to the Braves for Javier Vazquez
about 2 years ago
AtTheWall
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How many will the Yanks win in 2010? 110?
Don’t get this deal for Atl—they got Cabrera, a reliever and a good but miles away arm.
They save $12 million
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 22, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
true but aren't they just planning to spend that money on a hitter?
for $12 million they will have a hard time replacing over 6 WAR.
I agree
I really don’t get this trade for the Braves. I know their rotation is stacked, but it will be hard to replace Vazquez’s performance. And you’d think they could have done a lot better than Cabrera in return. Despite the salary relief, for the performance Vazquez is still underpaid.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 22, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Vazquez is a very good candidate to regress
And they’re replacing him with Tommy Hanson, who is very good and very young. I mean, I’m sure they’d love to have moved Kawakami or Lowe instead, but those are pretty difficult contracts to move. Vazquez was the easiest to move for a team that has at least six starting pitchers.
They save $12 million which they can use to add another bat, and they get Melky who is a nice 4th OF who still has enough upside to break out, and they get a nice upside arm. Vazquez had a no-trade clause to any western teams, and there aren’t a lot of teams willing to take on a lot of money right now. Atlanta’s hands were a bit tied, and I think they did okay considering.
The mistake I think was signing Kawakami or Lowe in the first place. They were already loaded with pitching, why add an expensive contract?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 22, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
i would almost guarantee
the yanks are going to push for Holliday now
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
We can trade for Melky now
Because he is officially a Brave.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 22, 2009 11:05 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Yeah
But isn’t there a minimum “indoctrination period” that he has to go through, to learn “The Braves Way,” before Dayton would consider him worthy?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 22, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
but Gardner is not available to the Royals becuase
he has never been a Brave (nor a Mariner, for that matter)
Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot...buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath & Beyond, I don't know...I don't know if we'll have enough time.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 22, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
This is a DM style trade
Give up value and get a bunch of nothing in return. I’m just glad the Braves did it before Dayton could.
So the big question (or the "Royals relevant" question) is
Does this mean that the Yankees are definitely keeping Gardner? I think so. I don’t know who else they have right now who’d back up CF if Granderson went down. It’s looking more and more like Scotty Pods will be wearing Royal blue in 2010 (patented d_f “sigh”). And let’s be honest, since it’s Dayton signing him, 2011 (at least), too.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
It means the Yankees desire Meche even more
As for Gardner, the Yanks no longer have a surplus in CF and thus are probably content to keep him as the 4th OFer and pinch runner. But if some team may value Gardner more than the Yanks and offers a great deal for him. In that case, the Yanks could still trade him and find a 4th OFer somewhere else like Crisp (if the ink is not dry on his contract with the A’s) or even Randy Winn.
by Gopherballs on Dec 22, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Arodys Vizcaino is a pretty freaking good prospect
He is in roughly the same league as Montgomery as a prospect.
echoed in Fangraphs post (don’t have link, but it’s on the main page)
Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot...buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath & Beyond, I don't know...I don't know if we'll have enough time.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 22, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Gardner
That was my first reaction as to how this impacts the Royals – seems probable that NY likes Gardner as 4th OF/defensive replacement/pinch runner.
Sad that a guy who would easily be our 2nd best OF (and possibly 3rd or 4th best position player, period) can be kept as a bench luxury by the Evil Empire, amassing about 150 -200 PAs max next year.
Sigh.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Looks like Gardner is more valuable to the Yankees
Still think the Yankees will add a RH bat in the OF and no, it’s not Matt Holliday. I would think a resign of Nady would be a move they would consider. Gardner will get lots of work with the Yankees.
A lot of stuff we don't know about rating players
Have you noticed how when I read the boards, we completely miss the mark on valuing players. If you looked at the trade of Roy Halladay, the Blue Jays got a bundle of prospects and players for him. However, with this trade of Javier Vasquez, it seems Atlanta didn’t get a lot of top prospects or players for him. It would seem Melky is worth not that much, low OBP, ok defense, limited power. Javier seems to have much better and more value than Melky, but the Braves didn’t get a bundle of top players.
I remember reading that the Royals wanted to MLB ready players for Brian Bannister during the 2009 season. Royals really over valued Bannister as does many of the Royals boards regarding him.
Halladay vs Vazquez
Keep in mind, Halladay deal was conditioned on him signing an extension for several years, while Vazquez will be a free agent after only one season. Big difference.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Yeah, we probably overvalue players a bit
But Vazquez has 1 year left on his deal, and he is likely to only produce a small surplus of production relative to his contract. Bannister is younger, cheaper, and may get better. So a prospect or MLB ready player shouldn’t have been out of the question.
Not a bad deal for Atlanta at all
But despite his crappy ERA/luck in 2008, Vazquez has been pretty freaking awesome the last three years
Total FanGraphs WAR 2007-2009: 16.5, just under Josh Beckett and about a win ahead of Justin Verlander for 7th among all pitchers in basebal over than period.. And that’s not all 2009, either. He was 5.1 in 2007 and 4.8 in 2008.
Don’t like FIP? Think it’s hiding flyball problems? Check Stat Corner’s tRA: 17.1 total, averaging about 5.7 WAR the last four seasons.
What this deal should also tell Royals fans is what Gil Meche’s trade value might be. Yes, he has another year left on his deal. But he’s also not really on Vazquez’ level as a pitcher, either.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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