Not to Depress You, But We're Now A Season From Zack Greinke Being Potentially Traded
How do you think Toronto fans felt about Roy Halladay back in January 2008? Were they worried about him being shipped out at the deadline in 2009? He has three years left on his contract! We'll worry about this in June of 2010. Well, he was very nearly dealt mid-summer of 2009, and never threw a pitch as a Blue Jay in 2010. He was basically "locked up" as a Jay through 2008.
Last off-season, when Dayton Moore signed Zack Greinke to a new contract, I took some heat for calling the deal "good, not great". My main point of contention was that, in reality, the contract wasn't much of a long-term extension, given that the Royals would have still controlled Greinke in 2009 and 2010. Basically, Moore did two things with the contract. First, he avoided arbitration with Greinke in '09 and '10, for $3.75 M and $7.25 M, respectively. Secondly, Moore signed Greinke to a two-year contract for 2011-12, for $13.5 M per year.
Now, before we go any further, I must say this. Obviously, with Greinke's step forward in 2009, both in terms of pure performance and in terms of becoming a known/established/popular/media-covered quantity, Greinke's salary for the next three seasons is now much lower than it would have been if Greinke was not locked up. Without that contract, the smartest thing for Greinke to do would be to stay with the Royals for his last arb-year, then hit the FA market after this season. Of course, in that scenario, he would be looking at a massive contract. Massive.
So in terms of the money, Moore really did well here. Really well.
Now, back to the years. Greinke's locked up, but not tremendously so.
So, we cruise through 2010 with Greinke. He's awesome, he only makes $7.25 million, life is good. So fast-forward to 2011. What happens if the Royals are ten games out and uninspiring near the trade deadline? Last season, both King Felix and Halladay were supposedly on the market, simply because they only had 1.5 years left on their contracts. Not 0.5 years, 1.5 years.
There's no way of predicting what the future will hold. However, it does seem like we've entered a new phase in which a) the trade value for big league players is declining in some sense and b) nobody is paying much for true rentals anymore. Because of these developments, the time to trade players instead of "getting nothing in return" has seemingly moved up a year: so the time to trade a guy moves to the 1.5 year mark instead of 0.5.
Now, of course, no two situations are the same. The Blue Jays play in the AL East, the Royals play in the AL Central, where Greinke can compete with Wichita State's roster behind him.
So here's where we're at: Greinke has three years remaining on his contract. Clock's ticking, Dayton.
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I think its been years that I've posted something that doesn't get a comment for the first 30 minutes
everybody NewYearEveing it already?
Oh no, your point is right on
The heat will be more for being “that guy” and bringing it up now.
The team really has a short window with Greinke — the 2011 trade deadline is really a day of reckoning for the rebuild. If the team is going to win with Greinke, it has to be set up for 2012.
This, of course, makes Moore’s moves or lack of moves since the middle of last season even more puzzling. Instead of cashing in the short term assets to bring in cheap major league ready or near ready talent to jump start the rebuilding process, he seems content to wait out the development of the draft picks. There is some nice talent with Mike Montgomery and company, but to expect them to graduate and immediately contribute at peak levels in 2012 is just a bad idea all around.
speculation is fun
downside: Moore doesn’t see the timeline for Greinke’s departure like he should
upside: Moore doesn’t see Greinke leaving KC at all — as in he sees the funds being available to re-sign him past 2012
Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot...buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath & Beyond, I don't know...I don't know if we'll have enough time.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 30, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
For better or worse, Moore won't trade Greinke
He always wants to “win now” and won’t be willing to swallow the short-term losses in exchange for the prospects, etc. we’d get in return.
The immoderate moderator
yea... tend to feel the same way
however, I bet many in Toronto felt the same way, Roy was too big, too good, etc
along the lines of Moore's mentality toward trading Greinke
may be that in 2011/2012 his job security is really on the ropes, and he needs Zack around to get some wins. prospects would be meaningless if he thinks he’ll be let go after 2012.
Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot...buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath & Beyond, I don't know...I don't know if we'll have enough time.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 30, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he'll be gone by then and the new GM will feel some freedom to really rebuild and trade Greinke
(crosses fingers)
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Starring Gil Meche as Alex Rios!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
maybe we have to change our model from
“do like the Rays do” to “do like Toronto does”
Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot...buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath & Beyond, I don't know...I don't know if we'll have enough time.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 1, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
The difference is the GM's involved
I really feel like Moore always wants to keep his best players because he’s confident that he’s about to put the Royals over the top. Most other GM’s are more realistic.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
And Meche
It makes even more sense to trade Meche, and there isn’t even a hint that Moore might be willing to do that. If he won’t trade Meche, he definitely won’t trade Greinke.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
do you want the write the "Moore Has to Trade Meche" post
or should I?
its all I’ve been thinking about for like the last two days, somehow the Davies discussion hammered it home for me
and everyone well knows I was never a huge Meche guy, and was one of the 99% of bloggers who didn’t like his contract, but he’s potentially a game-changer in the NL, where basically half the teams are “close”
of course the wild card is his health…
a few weeks ago
Rosenthal said the Royals were looking to trade Meche (and DDJ) once the FA starters signed.
I hope he's right
I don’t put much stock in the rumblings of rumor-mongers until several rumor mongers report it, and/or Dutton confirms.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
It writes itself
It’s really kind of a no-brainer. Well, it’s at least a no-brainer that Moore should shop him, and should have been doing so since the end of the season. Meche’s value is dropping and his salary isn’t. And there’s no chance that he Royals will be contending while he’s with the team. So Moore should try to trade him. The only impediment is possibly the market for him. I really don’t know what the demand for him is. Clearly there’s a market for him. Some GM’s would certainly like to have him. Some would be very wary of his age/health/contract. But I think some win-now GM would pony up something good for him and eat the whole contract (provided that Meche passed the physical with flying colors).
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
or, the royals eat some of the contract, for a better prospect or more
dayton had that kind of moxie in him once
I think there is zero chance that Moore throws in money to trade Meche
I think he thinks too highly of Meche and the kind of asset he is to the team.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
A link to what?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
to any thing that Meche won't be traded
considering there has been rumors that he might from Rosenthal.
baseball rules.
I didn't say that Moore says he won't be traded
I just didn’t know of any rumor. So far there appears to be one unsubstantiated, uncorroborated rumor. I’ll bet against a Meche trade. Anyone interested in some action?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
you mean traded before the season starts, right?
If so, you are going to win that bet
I’d go even money on a trade by Opening Day, 3-2 on a trade by the deadline 2010 and 2-1 on a trade by Opening Day 2011.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Wild Card here is the media environment/response
I really don’t know, but I think that when the media starts beating the drum, these things really do start to take on a life of their own. We could see a million “the Royals can’t trade Greinke, they owe it to their fans”. Or, it could be “Moore has to get something for Greinke, he can’t let him walk away for nothing”.
I don't think anyone will be saying that sort of thing until after the 2011 season at the earliest
And what media would be pushing the Royals to do anything? The national media wouldn’t pay much attention until rumors begin to circulate that Greinke is being shopped. There wouldn’t be enough national attention to the Royals and Greinke to actually start such a drumbeat. And no one in the KC media would do more than meekly whisper a suggestion that perhaps maybe the Royals should trade their best player.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
here's what I'm seeing
we cruise through 2010, Greinke’s awesome again, but not really the same “story” he was in ’09, the royals are bad
we get to 2011, and nobody really notices it early on, but then Jayyyyyson Stark or someone makes the point that Greinke only had 1.5 years left on his contract… the Royals are 27-40… the discussion begins
there’s nothing really close to happening in 2011, but we have to endure a million rumors about it (unless Moore unequivocally, repeatedly denies trading Greinke, which could happen)
then, we get to 2012, and suddenly the whole thing has kinda taken a life of its own, especially if the perception is Greinke is about to sign a 10 year 400 million dollar contract
That makes some sense
But doesn’t that mean that we’re two years away from Greinke possibly being traded?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
So now we're just one year away from worrying about worrying about it
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
it only takes one fanshot... a tweet from Heyman or Rosen or Stark...
at first we’ll be dismissive …
I bet the Red Sox and others have already called
and will keep calling every month until something happens.
I don't even think we have to wait until midseason 2011
I bet someone somewhere will note that Greinke only has 2 years left on his contract, and that he either needs to be traded or re-signed before that next offseason, because the second the 2011 season ends, the Royals will have no chance to re-sign Greinke.
if adrian gonzalez and felix hernandez are barometers
we only have to wait until the 2010 trade deadline for trade speculation to pop up about Greinke.
I’m sure dayton would never do it though, he probably wants to hang onto zack at least until the 2012 all-star game for fear of fan backlash.
by swing and a miss on Dec 30, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
And right now Greinke's a more valuable chip than either of those dudes
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 2:57 AM EST up reply actions
"the Royals can't trade Sweeney, they owe it to their fans."
And that worked out well.
Now, predict the outcome of a similar campaign over Zack.
This space for rent.
Will, regarding whether you take heat for your commentaries on Greinke...
it’s like you’re Charlie the Unicorn and the rest of us are still psyched about looking for Candy Mountain. :)
by DarthYoshi on Dec 30, 2009 5:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
cheer up
the 30s are great — you are still young enough to do everything you did in your 20s, but smart enough to not do the stupid things
Happy B-day
30 is easy. I think 40’s going to be hard.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I Have A
Theory that no one takes you seriously until you’re 30. The downside is that’s about the time the cute little girls in the service industries start calling you sir.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 30, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
I guess having the birthday timed with the new year is kinda nice
gives those new year’s resolutions a double thump
I always like being at the end of '79 too
That way I can pretend that I don’t belong to the idiots in Generation Y (no offense intended to anyone here), though I’ve found depending on the source, that 1979 falls into either Gen X or Gen Y. Plus, 1979 is a good Smashing Pumpkins song.
Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday, and a Happy New Year!
On behalf of everyone born in the 1980s...
Dear Sir,
We are totally awesome. Even if we are too busy texting and IMing to tell you ourselves.
Sincerely,
Me
by DarthYoshi on Dec 30, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's actually more the late '80s and '90s that bug me.
And it’s not all of them, just a rather large chunk.
But you’re cool DarthYoshi. :)
Define "late '80s"
I was born in ’86, so I figure I gotta be cutting it close, right? :)
GET OFF OF MY LAWN!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 30, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
There's a mix
I don’t see it in many people older than me, but the younger they get, the more likely it’s there. What “it” is, is hard to define exactly, so I’m probably just prejudiced against them. Or more likely, when I was growing up Gen X was the coolest, and I seemed to fit their slacker stereotype well.
Your all
a bunch of kids, March of 58 here!
But you are an intellignet lot, of course there are exceptions to every rule.
Happy Birthday, Happy New Year to ya!
3-5-55 Here, And
An exception to the rule.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 31, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
So we finally found the one adult in the room!
love the way I spelled intelligent – first thing to go are the eyes so proof reading is just a waste of time.
My Trifocals Feed
Me very accurate input; it’s the brain that’s having trouble. Also, grudz96 has a few years on me, and he’s managed his career so he won’t be working until the day he dies.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 31, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
true dat.
80’s 4-life….though I didn’t miss the 70’s by much—-3.5 days.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Dec 31, 2009 3:58 AM EST up reply actions
no shit
I’m 30 today…
wife took me out to a nice dinner
belly full of steak and wine
can’t complain too much
happy birthday
=
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 2:58 AM EST up reply actions
As much as I love Greinke,
I think July 2010 would be the best time to trade him. The potential haul would be huge. As for whether Moore will be willing to trade him at any point—I can’t fathom that he would just take draft picks for him in 2013—but my feeble imagination has been expanded under this regime.
that would be so incredibly bold
man, that would be crazy
Something like Boston or Texas’s three best prospects? More?
With The Pitching
Prospects in the organization and lack of good position players this would be a good move if 2012 is the target. Top shelf AA lumber seems about right, at least 3 of them.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 30, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
would love to see what KC could get from Tampa Bay
Longoria would be untouchable… I’d start with Jennings and leave 2 or 3 more blanks for others to fill in
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
jennings, beckham and a high ceiling young arm....
i dunno….that seems like alot for them to give up, but yet, not enough for Greinke
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Dec 31, 2009 5:41 AM EST up reply actions
The problem with trading Greinke
I don’t mean this to be snarky but the problem with DM trading Greinke is that DM would be doing it. Trading Greinke requires a huge haul. DM would end up with a bunch of toolsy prospects who look like they should be great, but for some reason haven’t put up big numbers. But Moore is certain they’ll blossom soon.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It would likely be a mix of some youngish MLBers and prospects
A scary, maddening mix.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Automated Greinke Trade Machine says:
July 2011
Boston Red Sox
Jacoby Ellsbury + Lars Anderson + Junichi Tazawa
I'm thinking Prado/Schafer/Soriano
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
That's not snarky
This is snarky: I’d rather just have him leave as a free agent, cause the extra first round pick we get is would likely turn out better than any single player Moore would attempt to acquire in a trade.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 30, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not that Moore's first round draft picks have looked so great so far...
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't Mike Montgomery a Moore first-round supplemental pick?
Jus’ sayin’…
Otherwise, yes.
He's done better with the supp. round and rounds 2-6 than with round 1
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
At least they'd have upside
I can’t recall a real upside trade or FA acquisition since Ramon Ramirez. Early on, it seemed that Moore had a knack for seeking out players who had not yet lived up to their capability—Meche, Bannister, Ramirez—instead of acquiring players who were once good or promising but have long since peaked, just hoping that they’ll somehow get better again against all logic. What happened to that GM?
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 31, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Well none of his other acquisitions have ever really "peaked" either
Moore just decided that he had the Midas touch, and all the poop he brought to KC would turn to gold.
(insert joke about NYRoyal needing laser eye surgery here)
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
of all the posts
This one frightens me the most!!
Greinke is the KEY to the future of this franchise
Because they have to WIN this trade….w/ all the young talent (if u believe that this is a solid core of prospects) will not play with Greinke. His departure will make or break the success this club will have for the next decade….
no pressure
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
the other point
depending on who u believe…but take a look at the offers for Greinke from ATL and TEX after the 2008 season. Pretty amazing that the Braves would not even discuss Heyward, Freeman, or Hanson. I think now things have changed quite a bit——pretty amazing that the ATL talks went far
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
Moore can't see past 18-11.
The Gordon, Meche injuries were a roadblock to winning.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
In his mind
they were the roadblock, sorry didn’t make it clear.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
We Coulda Been
Contenders…………Stella-a-a—a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a!!!!!!!!!!!!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 30, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i try to be more open minded when watching older movies
but I couldn’t stand Streetcar named desire. I’m trying to netflix all the old great movies i’ve never seen though (born in late 80’s)
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
Glass is the roadblock to winning.
Moore is the roadblock to winning.
by Royals Nation on Jan 2, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
This team could compete with a good GM and a $70-80M budget
A willingness from the ownership to spend more money would be a good thing. But if you have a shitty GM, that money is going to be flushed down the toilet. Moore is a much, much bigger impediment to the Royals winning than Glass.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 3, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
Cf. Minaya, Omar
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jan 3, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Glass has/will continue to hire people horrifically ill-qualified for the job. He skimps out on budgets and departments and runs arguably the worst public relations team in baseball…he has for years. He is notoriously behind the times on simple baseball concepts….i.e. focusing on the draft, etc. If the Royals had a new owner, maybe they could enter a 1990s mentality in their front office.
by Royals Nation on Jan 7, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
this is the most frustrating part of being a Royals fan for me-
the losing of our actually good players.
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
that's almost as frustrating as having a few good players
and still losing because the front office doesn’t know how to put together the rest of the team
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 3:02 AM EST up reply actions
i really could care less if we lose our good players....
the only thing that bothers me is losing a million games every year….and a couple current members of the team really bother me
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Dec 31, 2009 5:43 AM EST up reply actions
Somehow I think that's always going to be true for you.
and a couple current members of the team really bother me
Losing good players is fine
Florida do it every year.
The difference is they get good ones back. We get the Neifi Perez’s and Joey Gathrights of the world.
If only Joey Gathright had been rock bottom
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 31, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
i guess my point was
that a team like miami TRADES their players (and loses some). They might have lost josh beckett and mike lowell but they have hanley ramirez to show for it. The royals don’t have pretty much anything to show for Damon, Dye, and Beltran being traded, in effect just losing them. Not having good players is why I think we have lost “a million games every year”
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
Another interesting topic
First off – Happy Birthday RR! Don’t sweat 30, that one’s easy. 40 is the one that really sucked. It’s the one that confirms for good that some of your dreams will never come true. I’m turning 50 in a month and a half, and am having zero qualms about that one. In fact, looking forward to being a grandpa one day, and embracing the fact that I will most likely still be kicking ass as a bowler at an advanced age. (That actually gets some respect from younger bowlers, many of whom are my friends).
On to the Royals. Although I wholeheartedly agree that Meche should be traded, but I think the prudent thing to do is dangle him at the next trade deadline rather than deal him now, because the injury/disappointing season has lowered his value a lot.
Greinke. Call me naive, because this dynamic rarely works out – but I honestly think this is one dude who might actually give KC a “hometown” discount and stay in KC beyond 2012. Granted, a hometown discount might still be unaffordable to KC. In addition, I think he would have to be convinced that the team is about to start contending for real. In the AL Central, if our minors are as good as they might be, by 2012 it is at least a possibility, assuming Moore improves his performance as a GM.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
I agree, I think Greinke is very comfortable here
and might want to stay no matter what, as long as we are competitive. He knows he was fooled last offseason, and it won’t be so easy the next time. We need some development from Moose, Hos, etc. if we want him to stay because buying our way in with free agents won’t happen.
The question then becomes if those prospects plus Greinke would be a better team than
3 very good prospects acquired from a Greinke trade with the current guys in the Royals system.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Maybe we could trade him out as a rental in his final year for prospects (if we aren't competing)
and then resign him? And even better, we always sign him to a hometown discount 1 year deal, so we can trade him every ASB that we aren’t competitive at. Of course there is the understanding that Greinke is king for life in KC, and will be signed to a front office contract paying him $10M per year should he become injured.
He’d go for that right?
by AxDxMx on Dec 31, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Add prospects every year you're not in contention.
Sounds like a smart plan.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
S.A.D.
only thing i can say is anyone hoping/expecting Grienke to follow the $ and end up in a Yanks/Mets/BoSox uniform…try this out
Step 1. aquire severe Social Anxiety Disorder
Step 2. expose yourself to the mass media markets of those towns every 5 days
Step 3. Go into hiding (much as Zack did previously without the big paycheck/expectations
I think a lower budget (notice i said lowER, not low) to be an ace in a small market is his ultimalte career path.
Happy Birthday, Will...
The next 20 years will be the best. Maybe you will become a daddy, maybe you will write the next great American novel ( I am waiting), or maybe your wife will land a million dollar a year job and you can retire to your man cave. What is nice about being in the 30 to 50 age group is that you still have all your maybes ahead of you. With a little work most of them can come true. Again, Happy Birthday….
One Hopes. Oh,
And happy New Year.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 31, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
enjoy your birthday Will
a number is just a number (unless you are Trey-san, and then it is an enigma).
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Happy New Year back at you!!!!!!!!!
is it too early to go to bed?
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
















