Bob Dutton Reports Royals Close to Signing Noel Arguelles
Royals believed near major-league agreement with Cuban defector LHP Noel Arguelles for $7 million over five years.
Thoughts?
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Good Move
This is like having another draft pick with a high upside LHP. For the money, it’s worth the gamble.
by bas on Dec 5, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I won't believe it
Until it is revealed Arguelles is actually 35.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 5, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Great
As long as we still have 7 million to extend out Farnsworth for a 3rd year.
Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.
This is the umpire guy, right?
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 5, 2009 11:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
From Baseball Prospectus back when he defected
.
Arguelles and Iglesias both have long track records of competing in international tournaments and that has teams more comfortable with their ages than previous Cuban defectors. Despite the long-term familiarity clubs have with them, there are still whispers about both Iglesias and Arguelles being older than their stated ages of 19….
Arguelles is considered a better prospect than Iglesias, as a left hander standing 6’3, tipping the scales at 210 lbs., and hitting 93 mph with his fastball. Arguelles has a solid curveball, changeup, and command, along with a recently-added slider that some scouts say has quickly become his best off-speed pitch. Some scouts saw him sitting at 88 mph recently and said Arguelles was out of shape, but other clubs have recently watched him hit 91 mph and say his body isn’t a big concern. Every team I’ve spoken with is comfortable with his talent, given his consistent international performances. Executives agree that Arguelles would have been a late first rounder or sandwich pick in the recent draft, if he entered the draft rather than become a free agent….
Seemingly since the players defected, nearly a year ago while at a Canadian tournament, the players have been tied to the Yankees and many believe they will both end up signing with the Bombers….
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by RoyalsRetro on Dec 5, 2009 11:24 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Jeff Passan
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-arguelles112409&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Arguelles is expected to receive a contract in the neighborhood of those given to Dayan Viciedo(notes) and Jose Iglesias, two other high-profile Cuban defectors. Viciedo, a third baseman, signed last winter with the Chicago White Sox for $10 million, and Iglesias, a shortstop with whom Arguelles defected last year in Canada, received an $8.2 million major league contract with the Boston Red Sox….
Arguelles is likely to start in Class A, allowing for an adjustment period to the professional game after a year of inactivity. His 6-foot-3, 200-pound frame impressed scouts, who excused a slight drop in fastball velocity because Arguelles’ arm strength isn’t quite at full strength. His curveball and changeup rate as potential plus pitches, according to a scout who saw the workout.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Done Deal Now
Per Passan
I would imagine the Royals are relying on Brayan Pena for a little inside info into his age
I'm jealous. I had really hoped the Rangers would come in out of nowhere and snag him.
Good move by Moore, and he’s put together a nice pool of pitching talent at the AA or near AA level.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Alexei Ramirez
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Kendry Morales
Had a better year this year than any defector has for a while after getting jerked around line the Angels usually do with their prospects.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 6, 2009 12:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Livan Hernandez and Orlando Hernandez were pretty good for awhile
Although still probably overrated.
Its not a huge sum of money, so its a risk worth taking IMO. Its Farnsworth money.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Way to brighten up the thread, sunshine
Man, and I was almost feeling good about this. Unfortunately, you’re probably right :(
Willie Bloomquist-o
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Dec 7, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Very cool
I am glad to see us making some substantial investment in the International side of the business.
I think this is a very good deal
This guy is highly regarded. Keith Law ranked him as the #10 FA this offseason. Reportedly he’s got good tools. And while is age certainly isn’t 19, I think he’s probably no more than 25. At $7M over 5 years, I don’t think the risk is very high. Even if he flops, thats not huge money, and the pain is spread over multiple years. (I’m guessing a signing bonus of $2M plus $1M per year, or something like that). And the potential upside for this youngish pitcher is pretty high.
Is this guy a difference maker? We really have no idea. But it has the potential to be. And the cost isn’t huge. Small market teams need to make some of these deals in order to compete.
The immoderate moderator
I'm wondering what his real age is if the Royals are the team that gets to sign him.
No way this guy is 19.
With Cuban defectors, I usually go by the 17% rule
Add 17% to an Cuban defector and you’ll get his true age. 30=35. 25=29. 19=22. Just an estimate.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2009 4:27 AM EST up reply actions
seems like
There should be a joke about Homer’s eyesight in here somewhere
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 6, 2009 10:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who cares?
Just don’t give him more than a 3-5 year commitment. Even if he’s 23, we’ll have him potentially for his prime years. – TL
The Royals basically him for 7-9 years or so with the option years and six years ML service time.
Some limitations to this contract are that the Royals will not have much in options left when he is ready, so he can’t be moved back and forth to AAA, and he eats up a spot on the 40 man without being able to play with the Royals. He will most likely not be ready to pitch in the Majors for two years at the earliest.
Go Royals!
Who cares?
I smell a rat, that’s why. How many times do the Royals actually get someone that the rest of the league covets? There’s some kind of red flag here, and it may be the velocity drop. Anyways, I’m happy the Royals are getting a player like this, I just think it’s kind of odd that the Royals are getting a player like this.
He really likes BBQ, maybe?
Or he knows his stuff is terrible, but is quickly learning important English acronyms, words, and phrases like “FIP,” BABIP," “Zone Rating,” and “Pitch F/X” thinking that this will “somehow” endear him to the baseball-watching public of KC.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 6, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This cracks me up. Not in a bad way at all or directed at NYRoyal. Just that an MLB team is still that suspect.
And while is age certainly isn’t 19, I think he’s probably no more than 25
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Need to give Moore props for this one
These are the types of players that the Royals need to be aggressive in pursuing. Obviously he’s no lock to be a star, but I agree that this is a wise gamble and a very reasonable use of funds. I’m also stunned that KC is going to be the one he signs with.
Kudos to Moore for this one…need to give credit where credit is due.
by cookierojas73 on Dec 6, 2009 8:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
It’s the minor, developmental side of things that’s kept me in Moore’s camp all through this year—-hope in the process—-even if the process as it appears in the immediate at MLB team level looks sketchy. I’m willing give 2 more years before we see the full fruits of his labors. – TL
Spot on
If you take issue with the Royals signing premier international prospects you don’t have any valid complaints about the way the team is run.
I think the fact that we have 2 defectors on our team in Betancourt and Pena might have given Arguelles more comfort in signing with the Royals. How many other teams can say they have two players on their active roster who defected from Cuba? Arguelles makes 3 on the 40 man roster.
Whether Arguelles is a premier international prospect is the only thing up for debate. There are plenty of reasons to think that he is. Reasons to doubt as well, but putting biases against Moore aside I haven’t heard too many legitimate complaints. Age, work ethic, control are the questions right?
From Law:
"Arguelles’ command and control are still well below average and he has limited professional pitching experience, so I wouldn’t expect him to reach the majors for three or four years."
Unless I'm wrong...
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I just hope he was able to smuggle his perscription sports goggles over with him
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 7, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
An old lady recently carded me when I bought a bottle of wine
And I’,m over 40. Did this guy play with Rolando Arrojo? How much gray hair does he have?
Video of Argulles pitching
Go Royals!
nice find on this video.
He looks to have great arm action. Seemed a little stiff on the front leg but the arm is smooth. Looks really good!!
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by 306008 on Dec 6, 2009 11:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Where is Arguelles ranked right now on the Royals Top Prospects List?
Somewhere between 11 and 19 right?
Definitely top 10
Maybe top 5
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
if he's actually 25
and considering his salary, we might as well compare him to the entire pool of young players, including gordon, butler, ec
From what I've read
….he’s a top prospect with very good stuff. Law had him as the #10 FA in this offseason’s FA class. Plus fastball, plus change, decent third pitch and a projectable body.
And I think he’s the functional equivalent of a first round draft pick who gets a major league deal in the millions, but who isn’t major league ready yet. He’s a prospect, and a good one.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Dec 6, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I'd say
He’s probably on par with Aaron Crow, although probably not as polished as Crow.
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Sounds good to me
though I, too, bet he’s older than he claims. Still, who’s going to check the records in Castro’s Cuba? Low-risk, high-upside gamble.
Note on Cuba: In 1959, Cuba had the third-highest GDP per capita in the Americas, about the same as Italy and well above Spain. It also had the third-highest statistics for key quality-of-life factors like literacy and infant mortality. In 1959, eight thousand Italians immigrated to Cuba in search of opportunity. In 1959, Cuba had a crumbling military “dictablanda” that was mostly interested in cadging the occasional bribe rather than putting folks in the gulag.
Castro didn’t overthrow some evil absolutist regime because the people were burning with revolutionary fervor. He got a few thousand guns and a few thousand idealists and they took Havana with barely a shot and tossed out a corrupt bum who had no support at all (Eisenhower had cut off military supplies to the Batista government in ‘58.) Then Che Guevara started the people’s tribunals, and we all know what that led to.
So I would sign as many Cuban defectors as possible, since they know where we can send them back to if they play lousy.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
I didn't realize they grounded into so many double plays
I’m just glad this guy’s a pitcher
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 6, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it will be too long
Before Havana is once again the Vegas of the Caribbean.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I hope so
I went 3 years ago. Had an awesome time. Will be off the scale when it is opened up properly.
That characterization of Cuba isn't exactly accurate
Batista’s government was fairly violent itself. The economy grew but tended only to benefit the landed rich, and Castro’s movement actually enjoyed a decent amount of support from the lower classes. Also, Cuba’s literacy and infant mortality rates are still among the best in the Latin America. I’m not saying Fidel was a humanitarian, but things right now under Raul aren’t as bad as they used to be either.
If you're a Royals fan
you have to love this move. This is like getting an extra high end draft pick. For less or equal what it would cost in the draft. LOVE this move, and the fact he chose us over others. A million a year with a bunch of club option years….no brainer.
also
Head Scouts Willie Bloomquist and Jose Guillen say this guy is awesome.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 6, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm...
don’t know Dayton Moore. True, I do think he’s a terrible GM (I also think the earth is round and Adrian Grenier is a horrible actor, do you want to subscribe to my newsletter/), but here I’m just making a generic joke about player quotes re: other player acquisitions.
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 6, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
If We Could
Send Hoagy and Bloomers to Antarctica to scout penguins it would improve this club and somewhat justify their salaries.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 6, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
"They have great great lateral movement."
“They showed us this documentary about them and we just had to sign two of them”
“Yeah, I think the movie was called ‘Happy Feet’”
Betancourt thinks he's has great range ...
… as a pitcher he fields his position almost as well as Betancourt does as a SS.
by Steve Nelson on Dec 6, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
...why GMDM really traded for Betancourt
Trust the process. Snerk.
Awesome Move!
I have heard this guy throws 100+ mph and has plain nasty stuff! The downside is that he is wild. He will need a season in the minors and we could see him after the break if all goes well. This is a great move for the Royals since we need a left handed starting pitcher. Can you imagine the Royals with Greinke, Meche, Arguelles, Hochevar & Bannister? That rotation can compete with anyone else in the majors if Arguelles can tame the wildness.
This is a solid move
I’m not sure how ‘great’ he can be, but he seems to profile as a guy that at least contributes at the MLB level. I would think that some comparisons could be Duffy/Montgomery. I’m not sure though. That’s just based on reading about pitches and velocity. Add another of those guys to our system? We are doing great at the lower levels.
Good signing for GMDM.
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Olivo rumors
“There is a shortage of catching. And it is driving the market for the catchers on the open market. Miguel Olivo has found strong interest from San Francisco, Seattle and Colorado.”
Go Royals!
If there really is a shortage of catching,
shouldn’t the Royals be interested in keeping Buck instead of jettisoning him?
Or, at the very least, trading him for something else we need (CF?)
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
You talk as if we had a GM who knows how to correctly gauge the market
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I think MLB catching in general has sucked for a few years
A few stars, obviously. But the general baseline is pretty low right now. Someone who looks even average is going to have some pretty good value pegged to him.
Which is why I don't understand what Dayton is looking for at catcher
You either have a superstar like Mauer or VMart or you go with your scrub or a journeyman. I don’t think they should let Buck go, but if they nontender him they’d have some competition for his services. I think he should be nontendered, but it’s a tough choice if you want to keep him. I suppose I’d be comfortable with Brayan Pena starting for a year seeing as how we won’t be competing anyways. Maybe Manny Pina will be ready by 2011 and Wil Myers could be here by 2012.
If Pina ever OPSes .700 or greater in a full season in the majors I will be shocked
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by Matt Klaassen on Dec 7, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Agree 1000%
I think trading for catchers is nearly always a bad idea.
HEED THE TALE OF ED HEARN
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
If the market for Olivo is that strong
then Moore may have misjudged not offering arbitration to him
Unless I'm wrong...
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Arguelles
I realize there is no way to verify this guy’s age – but I wonder if it is standard practice to put a provision in these contracts that would reduce the pay an appropriate amount if it is later discovered that the player was lying about his age?
If it’s not standard practice, it damn sure should be. With all the terrorism in the world, you would think ALL countries would be doing a better job of identifying their citizens, which should include accurate birth records.
Sorry if that comes across as a naive, ugly American take on the whole thing. Chalk it up to the Angel Berroa fiasco. Not only did he turn out to be bad, but after Baird signed him to a long-term deal, THEN we found out he was really 2 years older. I adamantly think the Royals should have had the right to void the deal when that came out.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
I know MLB suspends players for lying about their age
Which seems to punish the club even further – you lose a year of development. I don’t know if he has to give back money or what. I know recent contracts have been voided due to players turning out to be much older, but I don’t think the Royals would want to totally void the contract since they’d want to keep him unless he turned out to be 42.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
That's when it became a big issue though
Post 9/11/ The Feds started getting serious about this kind of thing, did the checks and lo and behold you get loads of Dominican etc turning out to be older than thought.
Is also why this deal will take a while to go through. They will be checking his background microscopically. Look at Miguel Angel, that took forever to go through with the Twins, for the same reason.















