Winter Meetings Day Two Open Thread
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 6:00 AM EST
in Events
319 comments
We had plenty of Royals rumors yesterday, but nothing came to fruition. Seemed like mostly recycled stuff to me: random Meche rumors, a half-baked Royals-Bradley-Guillen whisper (too bad everyone knows Guillen absolutely is one of the worst players in the game) [yea, I went bold and italic on ya] as well as the sundry offerings that we've come to expect from the Moore Era, which means a host of perplexing small rumors that seemingly no other AL GM would be associated with.
I'm convinced no one knows what the Royals are doing from minute to minute because the Royals don't know what they're doing either.
I know much of what we see isn't true (or entirely true) but when you think of the well-run organizations in the game, be they saberized or not, you simply aren't hit with nonsensical rumors like we see with the Royals. There's so much dysfunctional thinking going on, that enough of it seeps down to the public.
Royals:
- Crown Gems: Gil Meche and Other AL Central News | Kings of Kauffman | A Kansas City Royals Blog
- The Royal Tower: TRT's 2010 Prospect List - #20 and #21
- Monday grab-bag: Concussions, Royals' big spending, and the Hoch-Oden connection | Upon Further Review
- Rumor Recap - Day One
Baseball:
- Pirates Lose Luis Cruz, Sign Vinnie Chulk - Bucs Dugout
- Braden Looper hopes to pitch in Chicago - MLB Daily Dish
- Dollar Days: Adam Everett Returns to the Tigers | FanGraphs Baseball
- Pavano Accepts Arbitration | FanGraphs Baseball
- Nats perplex with Bruney deal - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN
- Washington Nationals Sign Pudge Rodriguez. - Federal Baseball
- San Diego Padres Top 20 Prospects for 2010 - Minor League Ball
- Top Prospects, part 2: The fringe position players - Let's Go Tribe!
Grab Bag:
0 recs |
319 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Bad stuff will happen
But lets just hope its better bad stuff than last year. Yeah, we’re going to get a catcher worse than John Buck and probably will pay too much, but if it’s only a one-year deal for a free agent or only costs us one good player in a trade (as opposed to a good player and real prospects), then its not as bad as it could be. And yes, I’ve been reduced to using “It’s bad, but it could have been worse” as a standard of acceptance for this organization.
Royals Baseball: Lower Your Expectations!
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 8, 2009 6:25 AM EST reply actions
Does bold+italics = ALL CAPS?
Just need to know…
I used to work with an old man that told me- Son, every workplace has a dumbass. If you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
all three is the nuclear option
ALL CAPS
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
man, and i thought i could be negative
rumors thrown out there are now moore’s fault? i mean, come on now. i can only hope you’re not being serious. if something actually happens, let’s dissect but now you’re blaming him and the organization for rumors?
when he flat out calls meche/bradley “ridiculous”, and somehow that’s his fault? at some point you start to lose some credibility. not to try to confront you or anything, but i don’t want to see this patently negative tone just thrown out there so everybody can pile on.
let’s talk about what’s going on and analyze it as it happens.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 8, 2009 7:54 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Good stuff from the HRTC!
I enjoy the positive thoughts about how to make this team better… not the negators.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
i think you are misreading what I said
we’ve consistently gotten contradictory rumors (either directly, or philosophically) for at least two years now
those rumors aren’t DM’s “fault” per se, but they are reflective of a screwed up environment and a lack of a plan
generally, when a team wants to do something: play for now, dump salary, rebuild for as many prospects/young players, as possible, you can figure it out by their actions and what comes out in the press
now think about the royals: what the hell has been going on since 2007? everything and nothing all at once
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Dude
Remember the Bielema to Notre Dame rumor?
It takes nothing to start the sharks thrashing on the chum. Rumors are just rumors, and they’re absolutely not reflective of the front office in any way.
(Now, if the source of the rumor can be traced to the front office, that’s a different kettle.)
This space for rent.
KSU will hire Gary Patterson any day now
It is a done deal!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
good point
but a rumor only circulates if its believable… which goes back to my point… just about anything about the royals is believable
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Penny goes to the Cards for up to $9 million
Bruney to the Nats? What are they doing?
Tigers trying a three-way deal with the Yanks and D-Backs possibly bringing Schrerzer into the division? I’m all for it. That will make us better than the Tigggers.
And 2 years of Pudge for cheaper than 2 years of Buck (assuming the arbitrators keep him at $2.9 million and don’t lower it)…. What could have been. Now we have to suffer through Barajas rumors… by the way, is he a Type B or even worse, a Type A?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
The battle of the Mizzou alumni
Coming soon to a stadium near you?
Not to mention Gibson with the Twins...
And maybe a 1st rounder this year.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
not sure that would be a bad trade for detroit
but i don’t know enough about their minor league system to see if they could offset the loss of granderson… or would it be someone like ryan raburn who would take over in the OF?
scherzer looks like he has the making of a potential ace, and the other prospects look okay, so might be a net win for them.
Bruney is going to turn into the next Mariano Rivera under the awesome tutelage of Pudge Rodriguez
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
I think its evident by the Nats signings, they're playing for 2011
The 2011 draft, that is. First pick, baby!
Olney was just on 810
And he said that GMDM’s attitude is 100% different this off season than last. He said the organization is taking a much more long term approach to this off-season than last off-season. They are looking to dump salary if possible, but they won’t do it just for the sake of dumping salary. They are interested in bringing Coco Crisp back, if it can be done in the $3M range (which is where a few teams are at apparently)…
BOOM! ROASTED!
More info!! Moore!!
This is a good thing from GMDM. He has learned from his mistakes. At least so it seems…
Is CoCo for $3 million worth half a season? I remember from my “second-hand conversation” with him last season that they wanted to bring him back at less than the option $. Significantly less. He felt we had a good shot at him because of the injury…
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
3 million seems like fair value
and i’d actually be supportive of such a move. imagine a mitch/dejesus/crisp outfield…
So if they're taking a long-term approach
I assume he dismissed the Pudge/Barajas/Kendall rumors as “ridiculous” and “Absolute lies” since nothing says short-term like signing crappy catchers in their 30s… Also, why would giving Crisp a one-year deal be a “long-term” solution? Crisp at $3M wouldn’t be so bad, but it doesn’t nothing for the team beyond 2010.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
At Least It
Would keep us from doing something like giving Scottie Pods 3/20 and allow us to dabble in the 2011 FA market for a real long-term solution.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 8, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Right
For Dayton, that’s progress.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'd actually love to take on Bradley's salary
But if we see Kendall on this team, I will consider hari kari
He was pretty good... wait for it....
…
…
in 2005
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Brewers had Kendall on their team last year
and he was on the A’s prior to that (when he wasn’t any better) and I consider them sort of well-run organizations. Barajas was on the Blue Jays and they….wait, never mind.
*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"
by jackie ballgame on Dec 8, 2009 10:03 AM EST reply actions
I would take Barajas over Kendall every time
Far superior with the bat and the glove
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
and as bad as J.P. was
I’d take him over Dayton every time, too, no matter how much JoPo hates him for talknig trash about 1 WAR stud Adam Dunn
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
that's why it's a good thing
you don’t own the royals :)
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 8, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
really?
that seems a little foolish to me
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
sorry, that is
a monumentally stupid statement. you look at the vernon wells and alex rios contracts, as well as the habitual ruining of pitchers’ arms and you compare that to what DM has done? wow.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 8, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
You are a homer for Dayton Moore
You think DM wouldn’t have similar bad contracts if he had the money to spend? That constraint keeps him from the Gary Matthews Jr or Torii Hunter level of stupidity. We’re just on the Guillen-Meche train, and one of those has worked out to this point. Lucky Dayton.
Wells and Rios
This isn’t the place to debate every little detail of a GM fired by another team, but there are some points to be made here:
The wells contract turned out bad with the benefit of hindsight, but at the time it was at slightly overdone. Numerous smart analysts like Nate Silver thought it was a good deal. The Guillen contract everyone knew was bad from day one.
The Rios contract was also good at the beginning… there’s no denying Toronto got value out of it… and if he’s not gong to live up to it now, well, then letting him go on waivers just means that Toronto got the good years of the deal, then got rid of the potentially “bad” ones. That seems smart to me.
Again, as pointed out, I didn’t say J.P. was good, but he’s better than Moore. I realize that you feel like you’re the only “fair” critic of Moore, and that’s fine. I don’t agree. I’m not going to get into a huge argument here by listing each GMs good and bad points. But one last one: J.P.’s team was competitive in the AL East, Moore has won 70+ games once in the AL Central.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
JP was way over his head
but for the most part, he understood the value of defense and pitchers with good K/BB and groundball rates.
i can see making a case for JP
being better than GMDM… I just don’t think it’s a slam dunk or blatantly obvious. I side more with HRTC, but I can see d_f point… perhaps GMDM would make massive mistakes given the resources JP was given. Well, let’s be honest, he probably would make those mistakes. But I still like Moore more… i guess.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I just think its sad
that we aren’t debating "which GM was better, Moore or …), and we were trying to decide on the upper echolon of GMs rather than the lower end.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Here's a slam dunk:
Since Ricciardi took over in 2001, Toronto has won 80 or more games 6 out 9 years, with the 3 high seasons being 86, 86, and 87. You put those 3 teams in the AL Central and they MASSACRE the division. It’s kind of hard to make the playoffs when Boston and NY are busy outspending everyone else.
have to agree with d-f here
If you really want to commit to a long term plan, then stop all this talk about obtaining 34+ yr old catchers! If Buck is perceived as not good enough, then identify the young catcher you want, and go get him in a trade! Unlike past years, you might actually have a couple of trading chips to work with this time.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Teams don't often trade good, young catchers.
It takes too many prospects. I have no problem with them signing an older catcher for 1-2 years if he isn’t obviously terrible (which some of these guys are) and the money is not too much.
actually an older catcher could fit in a long term plan...
… if done right. If we truly have the prospects at C and are willing to bet they will be MLB ready in a year or two. Then it would actually make sense to pick up an older FA to hold the spot.
But it makes more sense to offer Buck a 2/5 deal. He’s already here, knows the pitchers, it a good public image guy, etc.
A short term commitment to a spot holding veteran can be a good way to STAY in your long term plan. Far better than making trades to “slightly upgrade” a position but weaken your system. Of course it is also how we spent the 90s….
How about the Rule 5 draft?
I have a suggestion for the Royals: Mike Parisi of the STL organization. Looks like he will be eligible for the Rule 5 draft.
Thoughts?
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
I'm all for snagging a defensive catcher in the draft
Don’t know much about Parisi, but sure why not? What about Koby Clemens? He posted a 1.000 OPS in A ball. Mike Napoli was available in the Rule 5 not that long ago, teams passed on him because of his defense, and he turned out just fine!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I'm hoping we get Nevin Ashley
He’s supposedly the Rays’ defensive player of the year, and has showed decent OBP skills as a minor leaguer, though without much power.
Matt McBride might also fit the bill, if he’s got passable defense at catcher. Basically, I’m just hoping we get someone who negates a “Kendall to Royals” headline.
Actually, Parisi is a pitcher
(sorry, I was going off-topic on that one). He has had a cup of coffee with STL, and has undergone TJ surgery – but he has good stuff, in my opinion, and his minor league track record looks good.
It seems that Rule 5s have a better chance at sticking on a big league roster if they can be part of a 7 man bullpen versus being a position player.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Rule 5 players that can stick
1. Lefty reliever
2. Righty reliever
3. Backup catcher
4. Utility infielder
5. 5th outfielder
6. Josh Hamilton
I thought the Royals can't
participate in the Rule 5 this year. Don’t they have a full 40-man roster? Can’t you only draft if you have space?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Yeah, I'm not sure about that
If they drafted someone, they’d obviously have to DFA or outright release someone. I nominate Josh Anderson.
Actually, after further review, I am wholly on the Koby Clemens train
but again, the important thing is no Jason Kendall (or Rod Barajas)
10:39am: Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star tweets that the Royals will “look at” Jose Molina as a possible starting option.
That was sarcasm...
I forgot where does Jose rank on the Molina scale of slowness? Is he slow, slower, or slowest?
It's one of the mysteries of the universe
I think it’s one of the experiments they’ve got scheduled for the Large Hadron Collider.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
When two Molinas collide at 99.9999999% the speed of light
The universe ceases to exist, because there isn’t enough energy in the universe to actually even accelerate two of them to 75% light speed. However, the theory holds that if the two collided at that speed, it would form a black hole that would eventually eat our solar system.
by AxDxMx on Dec 8, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
is this the theory of related Molinas?
Will Ebners Hit Parade, Pain TV; Channel 32; All the time! (PDT)
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Dec 8, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
No, I read the sarcasm
I just thought maybe you didn’t catch mine, since yours could be interpreted as a witty, backhanded slam to me if someone thought I was serious.
What a waste of time
catching should be the last of their priorities. There is hardly and noticeable difference between what can be found already in the Royals minor league system and what is available on the free market.
JR House would be just as productive with the Royals as any of these free agents
GMDM is looking at.
CHONE:
J.R. House – 0.261/0.317/0.378
Bryan Pena – 0.282/0.326/0.415
Jason Kendell – 0.243/0.315/0.311
Rod Barajas – 0.237/0.285/0.393
He played 101 games at that position for Omaha last season
I would be a serviceable back-up in my opinion. No one is asking him to be the starter.
check the linear weights as well as the defense
House is projected as a -12 defensive catcher, and that’s probably generous. At bets he’s a 1 WAR player.
They should make Brayan at least the half-time starter, then see if they can re-sign BUck for cheap after they non-tender him. If that doesn’t work, get a time machine, and go back a week offer Gregg Zaun $3M.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Or Kelly Shoppach for a PTBNL
Or if the Royals are going to waste real resources on a catcher, kick the tires on Towles, Doumit, and Snyder (in that order).
the Shoppach thing is mind-blowing, forgot about that
I don’t see how he’s not a league average player
Buddy Bell is prophetic: it’s getting to the point where I’m thinking the Royals would have been better off offering Olivo arbitration. Ugh.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes It's So
Bad you have to work to make it worse.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 8, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
this might be the offseason motto for the Royals brain-trust
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
The 35% K rate might have something to do with it
It is not a coincidence that the three teams for which Shoppach has played are Boston, Cleveland, and Tampa Bay (well, he will play for the Rays this spring).
Probably
Russ Branyan’s career K rate is 39%
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Branyan's teams
include Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Milwaukee (Jack Z era), and Seattle (Jack Z era).
I would prefer
to save the ~$3M on signing a FA catcher and continue to reinvest in the minors and international signings. Let’s be honest, what is the cost benefit for a FA catcher for the 2010 season?
I hope its a look
Like when I “look” at a really ugly person just out of curiosity.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 8, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
even worse than Kendall
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I see Dayton's plan
He will leak increasingly awful rumors to the press, in the hope it drives Royals fans to suicide. And then he can operate unchallenged all season without the pressure of supplying instant gratification.
by kcbottom9th on Dec 8, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Moore: "I stuck with a cheap contract for Buck!"
Royals fans: “Woohoo! And here we thought we were going to go 2/6 for Pudge! Party on the plaza!”
I read that as
a Pudge Party on the Plaza!
P^3 = Pudge Plaza Party
I almost wish we had gotten him just so Pudge Plaza Party would enter the lexicon of sarcastic sayings here.
The P^3 still can
as a signal for the enigma of a super sweet Pudge Plaza Party that will never happen
P^3 could be easier to type then, “All my Royals hopes and dreams have been dashed on the sharp rocks of incompetence, and strewn across the desert plain of ineptitude.”
Or something like that.
Will Ebners Hit Parade, Pain TV; Channel 32; All the time! (PDT)
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Dec 8, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
What about Ramon Castro?
Seems like he’ll provide the offense of these other guys, for a fraction of the price.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Good point
I’d forgotten about him. He’s definitely better than Pudge (whom I posted about earlier at FanGraphs), Kendall, or Molina, and probably better t han Olivo, Barajas, BUck, or Pena.
POIntless, but if you’re going to blow money on a catcher, Castro has the best bet at being league average or better.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Good call, Retro
Castro was the “best buy” for $1 million or less on the catcher post I never got around to drafting. He might be “done,” but so are most of the catchers to whom the Royals have been linked.
A poster at RC Scout came up with it
Credit where credit is due. I totally forgot about Castro.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I would also call the Tigers on Dusty Ryan
He showed some hitting skills in the minors and is now blocked by Laird and Avila.
Castro's better even if...
we’re going by Dayton’s Rule of 2005.
wOBA’s: Castro .326, Pudge .312, Kendall .305
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Teahen signs three year deal with White Sox
So we get to see Mark facing off against us for awhile.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/white-sox-teahen-agree-to-threeyear-deal.html
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Not sure why they felt the need to lock up him
But I guess they probably will be saving themselves a little cash in the arbitration years. And good for Mark.
Does the deal have a provision for The Mark Teahen Show – Chicago?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
The Family He
Stayed with in Kenai has officially transferred their fandom to Chicago.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Happy for Teahen
and I guess this saves the Sox some money in arb, but really, it doesn’t make much sense to me.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Kenny Williams just likes to keep everyone on their toes
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
True enough
the other side of the coin is that Kenny Williams’ moves generally seem to go the opposite way I think they will… he’s got some sort of mystical power
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
so you thought Rios would break out after joining the Sox?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
haha... no
I wasn’t sure what would happen, there.. just that he would play at the expected level, which would = the contract. So, like Tango and others, I thought that was a good deal for both sides.
I don’t believe in “Breakouts”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
haha, i see.
where do you have Rios going forward? From this point on will he be worth the remaining contract?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
No
Which makes dumping him at the waiver deadline look that much smarter
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
not that i care too much, but then why did the sox pick him up?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously they think/thought he's better than I or the Blue Jays do
I never know what to think of Kenny WIlliams. I’m serious. If I think he’s made a good move, it blows up in his face, if I think a move he makes is insane, it kicks ass.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
i think one of his real strengths is a willingness to do stuff
as long as you have a high enough hit rate, it can keep you alive in the AL Central
too many GMs fall in love with their own players and/or get frozen
Kenny would have made a bizarre/interesting deal involving Guillen a year ago… no question in my mind
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Which Guillen?
Can you imagine the awesome Kenny Williams/Posnanski dynamic?
I’m not saying he’d be better than Dayton Moore, well, okay, he’d probably be a little better… but it would at least be interesting and entertaining.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
you never really hear about the white sox as a team that has a good system
and yet Gordon Beckham will produce more value at the big league level from 2009-2011 than probably all of moore’s draftees combined over that period, and moore started in 2007
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
ALL DAY!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
more on the Royals pursuit of a catcher
Rob Neyer ESPN chat today:
Q: Can anyone tell me why Dayton Moore would want Molina instead fo just keeping John Buck?
A: Familiarity often breeds contempt.
Sounds like Neyer agrees with us.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Ryan Church DFAed
Seems like he’d be a great pickup for us. He’d give us Teahen’s offense with better OF defense.
http://www.talkingchop.com/2009/12/8/1191473/ryan-church-dfaed-by-braves
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
he's got the right credentials now
plus, he was traded for JEFF FRANCOEUR, so you know he’s good
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
What's your projection for him
With regular playing time, he looks like a 2.0 WAR player. Too bad those guys are never available for free.
I think DM will make a fair deal for him
I wouldn’t expect him to give up more than Duffy, Moustakas and Melville.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
How about Buck for him straight up?
Would we have to toss in a Grade B prospect or 2 as well?
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
They'd have no use for Buck
They have McCann, who is awesome, and David Ross.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Ross wouldn't be a bad starter, himself
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
CHONE has him at .267/.339/.419, which is -4/150 for CHONE
I have him at .267/.336/.420, .326 wOBA, about -1/150
CHONE has his defense as average on the corner, Jeff has him substantially above average. My guess is he’s another 1 to 1.5 WAR player. Worth taking a flyer on if they can get him for cheap as a stopgap RF, but that’s just me.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
That's lower than I expected
He has strong K% and BB% rates and other than last year, he has shown good power (.169 career ISO). UZR likes him in the corners (career 17.9 UZR/150 in 2700 innings in the corner outfield slots — regressed, that is still well above average). Next year will be his age 31 season, but he seems to have a skill set that ages relatively well.
I was surprised
(happily) that my 3 slashes have been so close to CHONE’s, although I think it’s just coincidence… I have some kinks I want to work out when i have time. Basically now it’s just Marcels with souped up component regression and aging
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
no doubt
I’m not sure what happened to him last year, but he was a great hitter for the Nats when they were playing in a pretty severe pitcher’s park. Definitely worth a flyer, and almost certainly better than most of the free agent OFs that we can afford.
Retro, what could we trade for him? What would be fair?
As I understand it, the Braves have 10 days to trade him.
I assume you would envision him as part of a RF platoon with Guillen? That would certainly mitagate Guillen’s crappy defense somewhat, as teams normally face a LH starter only about one-fourth to one-third of the games.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
he's a better hitter than Guillen straight up
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm probably not the best person to ask for this
But I would say probably a C type prospect. Maybe Kelvin Herrera or someone like that. I guess its similar to the Jacobs deal last year. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave up Carlos Rosa for him.
I think Atlanta wants to move the salary more than anything,but other teams will be bidding on him.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
C prospect sounds about right
The Braves were going to non-tender him later this week (he made $2.8 million last year, and would receive a service time bump despite his down year and playing only 1/2 time), so the Braves only real leverage is asking for a better marginal prospect than other teams are offering for him.
Braves are in a situation where they're having to NT some useful guys
Church, and especially Kelly Johnson. I’d rather have Johnson than Churhc, of coures. Better hitter, no worse defenisvely at 2B than Callaspo, potentially a good defensive outfielder. Hopefully get gets NTed and the Royals can sign him for cheap.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
yes on Johnson
I read somewhere he’s the new DeRosa
Mark Teahan
is the player I wanted to see gone above all. Now I have a nagging feeling that won’t go away. If that son of bitch turns out to be a Royal killer, it’ll be a real kick in the Gload.
Tigers, D-Backs, Yanks blockbuster trade completed pending medicals
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/yanks-tigers-dbacks-discussed-blockbuster.html
Holy Shit!!!...Peterson resigned...Am I dead?...Is This Heaven?
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Dec 8, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions
The Tigers did okay getting Scherzer
The Yankees cleand up by getting Granderson for nobody they will miss. Poor Arizona — they just made their team worse and more expensive.
I can't believe that went through, Arizona is completely hosed with this...
NOW is the time to go after Brett Gardner – CF – NYY!!!!! We can probably get him for cheap.
seriously...
or bring back crisp (who is basically the same guy) for 6 times the salary and a huge injury risk
what will Dayton choose?
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
i was thinking the same thing
how do you think their outfield will pan out? granderson in LF?
Heyman says that even w/ granderson the yanks may try to sign re-sign damon
who’s the odd man out? (read dispensable)
I'm not sure
but I think they initially have granderson in CF
it just seems to be baseball code that the bigger name guy gets first dibs, and they quasi benched Melky last season, so..
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
that's what they should do
although, again, I can see them sneaking in and grabbing Holliday last minnute
Holliday=Granderson-Swisher would maybe be the best outfield in baseball
which is good, since their infield is so weak.. wait, what?
But, yeah, the Royals should be gunning for Gardner like crazy
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
well, not "like crazy"
but he’s an above-average player once you include defense. I wonder what it would take?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
well that's the catch
its a moore trade…
maybe we have a pitcher that’s going to be traded for off the field reasons lying around
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
and honestly...
we know moore’s initial reaction to this would not be “get gardner” it’d be “get melky”
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
A DDJ-Gardner-Church OF
could actually be pretty enjoyable to watch
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
And isn't terrible at the plate either
Church was hitting pretty well until that concussion sidelined him.
if we can't snag church...
a born again who is named CHURCH, then I give up
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
As I tweeted moments ago
Um, did I just call DDJ-Gardner-Ryan Church my “dream” OF? This is what it’s like being a #Royals fan. #killmenow #reallykillme #royalsfail
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't get this deal at all by the Dbacks
they seem smart, accumulate tons of cheap, young talent… then do crap like this or the Eric Byrnes deal
Josh Byrnes is like Kenny Williams, only from the sabermetric end
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
although, I guess a case could be made
that Jackson is the kind of pitcher that could be a stud in the NL, much mroe than in the AL
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Is Scherzer not capable of being a stud then?
I’m pretty sure I’d rather have Scherzer than Kennedy and Jackson.
isn’t scherzer a soft tossing banny type?
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
He's smart, but the similarities sort of end there
he’s got a 94 MPH heater, according to fangraphs
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough...
I missed the boat on that one
back to square one: wtf arizona?
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'm telling you, Byrnes is the sabermetric Kenny Williams
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
They've been making puzzling deals for awhile IMO
And compounding it by having seemingly decent players suddenly crater in performance.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
yeah, I'd say they got the best of it...
they just got a lot younger, cleared a lot of salary and probably didn’t lose that many wins in the process.
Not bad for Day 2 of the Winter Meetings
And it got done pretty quickly, or at least so it seems.
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
New rumor, GMDM is looking at converting Milton Bradley to catcher
And John Buck to Centerfield. Sounds like he is finally getting creative in his solutions
bradley would be a great catcher...
thing about how many brawls we’d have
lets get him closer to the action
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just sorry Teahen was traded before he got a shot to platoon with
… well, we’d have to bring back Bako for another awesome same-handed platoon
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
yes
love the same-handed, same skil-set platoons
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
When things slow down
I’d love to read an update on that rat bastard Bako
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
are you as stunned as I am that he's still earning money?
he absolutely cannot hit, he’s a thousand years old
he must be really good defensively
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
CHONE projects him as -4 defensivelly
I bet he’s awesome at handling the pitching staff, though
CHONE has him as a -42/150 hitter. Seriously.
I have him at -26, which is Kendall-level suck, with worse defense.
But at -42, he’d need to be one of the best defensive catchers in the league just to be replacement level.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
But I forgot he's left-handed!
with that platoon advantage, he’s probably only like half a win below replacement level
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Y'all quit pickin on guillen
the team has already erected a statue of him in right field. At least I think that’s a statue?
What he lacks in playing ability is far outweighed by his clubhouse leadership. I mean who else do we have that would stand up to Mike Jacobs enough to fight him over his not earning his excessive salary?
That whole thing reminds me of the legendary drunken fight between Bob Denver (Gilligan) and George Lindsey (Goober) over which one was the better actor.
Peter Gammons leaving ESPN
per MLBTN
Holy Shit!!!...Peterson resigned...Am I dead?...Is This Heaven?
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Dec 8, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions
I know he's not much of a hitter
but what’s his defense like behind the dish? Can he mentor our “young” staff?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's a good fit
based on the current long term plan.
Long Term Goals:
1. Short term contracts
2. Over the hill players
3. Find a more expensive catcher who is older and not as good as Buck.
4. Find a center fielder who is either older and not as good a Maier, OR in the mold of Josh Anderson (AKA a poor man’s Joey Gathright)
5. Anyone who throws left handed and can reach the plate 3 out of 7 times.
Perfect timing for this
The Original member of the Ndamukong Suh bandwagon
by averagegatsby on Dec 9, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I can't take all the credit...
I believe d_f said it, and ratherfantastic had it as his sig for months.
The Original member of the Ndamukong Suh bandwagon
by averagegatsby on Dec 9, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
retrp said it
credit where it’s due
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 9, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
retro
child care and blogging dont mix
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 9, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah fair enough...
The Original member of the Ndamukong Suh bandwagon
by averagegatsby on Dec 9, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
FanGraphs
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
He's finally starting his garage band
Living the dream.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Denver Post
Says we are a suitor for C Yorvit Torrealba, but the Rockies are the “Favorites.”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Is there a single free agent C (other than Castro) that the Royals
have NOT been associated with in some way? And the bigger issue…is this REALLY Dayton’s #1 priority this offseason?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
per Moore
“Every free-agent catcher is on our board”
Don't Stop Believing!
bring back Tupman!
or just give Suomi a chance
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
In Daytonspeak:
Every catcher that is older, probably not as good, and/or more expensive than John Buck is on our board.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
I really find it amusing
that after a couple of years of “OMG BUCK SUCKS WAAAAAUGH” now everyone seems to be all “nobody out there is better than Buck, screw it, let’s just go with him.”
This space for rent.
I'm not in that camp.
I don’t want Buck back for minimum wage!
Nobody out there is better than Buck, except for maybe 1 or 2
And we’ll have to give up a player to get those guys. So why not stick with Buck another year? Pena and him can split time. There just doesn’t seem to be much the Royals can actually do about the catching “situation” DM so desperately needs to fix.
I just think all the angst is funny.
I can think of exactly one catcher in my lifetime who had a long, all-star career solely due to his bat (i.e., he was such a good hitter that nobody ever accused him of being a defensive whiz).
Well, maybe two. I was obviously referencing Piazza, but I guess Tettleton applies too.
And I can think of exactly one catcher in my lifetime who had a long, all-star career solely due to his glove (i.e., he was so good defensively that nobody cared that he couldn’t hit).
That’d be Jim Sundberg, of course.
Butch Wynegar was a rookie of the year and two-time all-star. His OPS+ was worse than Buck’s. Bob Boone was a billionty-time all-star, and he makes Buck look like Bonds. Terry Kennedy had a decent peak, but overall he couldn’t carry Buck’s jock at the plate. Same with Rich Gedman.
And the damnable thing about it is that defensively, Buck is NOT THAT BAD. No, he doesn’t seem to be able to through out a freakin’ yacht trying to steal second. But you rarely see a pitch get past him; he’s excellent at blocking.
I just don’t get why anyone thinks Pena/Buck isn’t acceptable enough while we wait.
This space for rent.
I've never understood the Buck hate either
I really disliked Olivo for his hacking ways, and in 2009 his defense was atrocious, so it made it even easier to dislike him. But Buck’s only sin is not being able to throw runners out stealing second.
Actually, his hitting is better than most catchers
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 9, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Sadly, Buck has one other sin that clouds the judgement for many:
He was a part of the Beltran trade.
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Dec 9, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I think that's the big one right there
He was promised to be more than he was. In a lot of people’s eyes, he’s a complete and utter failure. Allard Baird’s Royal Legacy.
He has had six seasons
and never even hit .250. Add that to the fact that even I could steal second against him. And Mike Wood makes Kyle Farnsworth look like a Cy Young winner!
DING DING DING, we have a winner!
How many catchers in MLB do hit over .250? How many of the catchers we are looking at are better than Buck? He can play another year or 2 til we get one of our young guys in place.
What's the projected contract there?
If Pudge gets 2/6, does Torrealba get 3/11 or so? His option for this year was $4M.
I really don’t care if this other catcher who is not going to be John Buck is good, as long as he’s cheap. In my fantasy world where the Royals do things that make sense, Pena’s getting almost half the starts to prove himself long-term anyway. Give me Castro or Josh Bard, aka, someone Hillman will not fall in love with more than Pena.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 8, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
and now Dutton via Twitter:
Royals_Report
#Royals have interest in Orioles OF Felix Pie but finding it tough to meet Baltimore’s needs.
What kind of needs do they want met for Felix Pie? Give me a break.
I like Pie
I don’t know what the O’s want though. Maybe Callaspo to fill in at 3B?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
If Callaspo was what they wanted
I assume they would have already made that deal happen. Based on Baltimore’s last year-and-a-half or so, they want prospects that are too good to give up for Pie.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 8, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
They've also got Brian Roberts at 2nd Base
And if they don’t think Bert fits at 3B, then that’s not a fit.
Isn't Roberts a FA after the 2010 season?
Maybe Bert as the probable succession plan, while serving a 2B/3B/utility role in 2010?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Baltimore's smart
they don’t have to move Pie, but they don’t have to keep him, either. (Personally, I think he’s as good a player as Nolan Reimold given his defensive skills, but can see going with Reimold, too). He’s someone the Royals should be looking at, but this is a bit scary given that Andy MacPhail has spend the last couple years making a living screwing dumber GMs. Callaspo-for-Pie might work (Pie has slightly less service time), is arguably fair for both teams. Os get a 3B, Royals get a CF who can at least hold up his end defensively, and is only 25 next season (so still room for offensive growth). Each player carries some risk… Seems pretty fair to me.
The Royals could then try Getz at 2B and have a CF solution there.
This all hinges on the Os actuallly wanting Callaspo for 3B, of course.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
GMDM is on ESPN's Hot Stove right now
talking about Noel a little, but mostly spouting the injury excuse for 2009. Yep, Moore, that’s why we suck.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
injuries and underperformances...
(and one of the greatest seasons by a pitcher this decade)
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
"Underperformances"
in the context of Dayton’s unjustified overexpectations.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 8, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Wins and RBI
Stop it with those advanced metrics!
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 8, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
every minute
he’s doing interviews is another minute he’s not trading billy butler for a package of an aged 2nd baseman, and a speedy center fielder that cant run routes or get on base.
by who am i? on Dec 8, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That's the kind of positive thinking
we can all get behind.
by hunter s. royal on Dec 8, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
This made me laugh way to hard...
I have a tear in my eye.
The Original member of the Ndamukong Suh bandwagon
by averagegatsby on Dec 9, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
when Farnsworth went down, so did the Royals pennant chances
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
yea... i love it
how many of these injuries actually made the royals better: losing guillen in may is basically the equivalent of trading for matt holiday in july
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
see how "love" made it into my Tweetcloud?
I remember someone saying that Moore was on the radio after Crisp got hurt saying that “well, we lost the best CF in the league.”
Someone else commented: “Since when was Grady Sizemore a Royal?”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Rany on WHB this morning
Said the pickup he’d most like to see is Rich Harden. I assumed Harden is well out of the Royals’ price range, but maybe I’m missing something. Is Harden like Bedard, i.e., looking at a short-term incentive contract to show he can be not injured? Something tells me that both of those guys get pretty good looking 2-3 year contracts, which strikes me as beyond what the Royals should be paying. Am I wrong?
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 8, 2009 5:19 PM EST reply actions
thats how i think
although, nobody expects bedard to be able to pitch early, while, I think, harden is sorta healthy atthe moment
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Harden's a great pitcher when healthy
and I think I see where Ranyh’s coming from, but I don’t thin it makes sense at this stage for the Royals. Harden makes more sense than Bedard since he’ll be healthy to start the season and will only be 28, but I don’t see him signing long enough for the Royals to be able to contend while he’s around, and prospects for trading him can go out the window fast if he gets hurt.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
there's a school of thought
that small market teams should always take chances on risk/reward guys, but i tend to agree
just don’t see the point for the 2010 royals
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of agree
But I guess I might not understand the “Risk/reward” thing. I woud think you’d want a LITTLE risk for potentially a lot of reward. I think there’s enough interest in Harden that the Royals wouldn’t be able to get him cheap.
But, like you say, I think we agree that it isn’t for the 2010 Royals.
Here’s what is scary: I’m sort of impressed with the Twins this offseason. While I think Carlos Gomez still has a lot of potential, getting J. J. Hardy is really impressive. He’s not a very good hitter, but a league-average bat at SS is good, and he’s a very good defender. If they get a decent plan together for 3B, they will be TOUGH next season.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think Dayton's upside is that we can become the Twins in like 2-3 years
and endless supply of generic pitchers and a sometimes ok offense thanks to 1 or 2 great hitters
it could happen
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
...if everyone gets the right perscription from the eye doctor
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
oddly enough (j/k). I think Harden would be a nice pickup but sorta pointless unless really cheap.
I still wonder how we’re going to fill out a rotation for 2010, however. I am really concerned that we are going to be just awful after Zack, especially if Meche and Banny are hurt. Hide the women and children…
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 8, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
risk reward is great...
if it fits your budget.
$3 M for a player that could bust, but has a high upside is a gamble. but if it’s a bust you can absorb it.
$12 for a high risk/high reward is stupid. Even if the risk/reward odds are the same, but the upside is higher. A $12 million mistake can ruin your budget and right field for several years
If we were going into the season with 2009 expectations
Of semi-competing, I’d be all about Bedard, Harden or Duchscherer. But I don’t see the point now. Better to try to trade for some younger guys with upside.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Interesting stats note
that is really unbelievable
not denying this was said, however I do wonder what does “analytics” mean? not even using ERA or RBIZZZZZZZZZZZZZ? or something else? I guess reading between the lines you can assume they’re not using WAR or something like that, but who knows?
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 8, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I was wondering about that, too
if they’re talking about a specific source or something. I find it hard to believe that t here’s a single club that doesn’t have at least SOME part-time consultant doing basic projections or something for them
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
If the two clubs are Atlanta and Cincinnati
I would not be surprised
the funny thing is
if someone came out with ERA today… people would mock it
“wait, you mean some runs are unearned? they don’t count? I guess they’ve never looked at a scoreboard”
“wait, you mean a pitcher who comes in with men on base doesn’t have to worry about those runners, ITS HIS JOB to get them out”
“wait, i’ve got to proportionally stretch out a pitcher’s runs allowed… make that earned runs allowed… over 9 innings? why? nobody throws complete games anymore”
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
If someone came up with batting average today
People would say “why did you put the decimal point THERE?”
its funny that there's that extra digit in batting average
we don’t give a basketball player’s shoot percentage as a .450 shooter or whatever
i think it makes a big difference in how we perceive
a .280 hitter is only 2% less prone to getting a hit than a .300 hitter
by Will McDonald on Dec 8, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Saw that the Royals have some interest in Mulder
That strikes me as a reasonable low cost gamble – assuming it would be low cost. MIght make more sense than Bedard though not as high upside.
I dunno...
Im not sure he is really viable at this point in his career.
The Original member of the Ndamukong Suh bandwagon
by averagegatsby on Dec 9, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm... that's a close one
I’m not really sold on Smoak yet, but Feliz has scary potential. Might be almost as good as Josh Johnson now, if you believe CHONE. Still, young pitchers have their pitfalls, and FLA isn’t a team to turn down cheap young talent, and they seem to be able to identify it.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
That was awful dumb of them wasn't it?
Unless I’m missing something. Neftali Feliz is pretty good, and Smoak’s no slouch.
simple: Meche and Farnsworth for Gardner(NYY)...
Guillen and Callaspo for Pagan(NYM) and a B prospect. Quit talking about catchers and address the real need—outfield!
yes...
GMDM is an idiot for not making trades that may or may not actually be possibilities. How about an outfield of DDJ, Granderson and Holliday?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be fine with Buck... non-tender him and
then sign him to a 2-yr deal as someone else suggested in this thread earlier… perhaps $5MM over the contract. So no, I don’t think catching is the priority… but i don’ think anyone will take Guillen… not even the Mets.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
Meche for Melky could work
Meche and Farnsworth for Gardner? Sign me up, but Cashman might be a tougher sell than I. I’d love to get Pie, Baltimore can’t be asking too awful much.
Tangled up in Plaid
they were asking for a
“run-producing corner infielder” and they weren’t interested in Callaspo
http://www.kansascity.com/385/story/1619022.html
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
well, there goes that
Can’t blame either side for trying. I wouldn’t give up Gordon or Butler, either. I think Callaspo would be fair, but if they have doubts about his defense at 3B (and who can blame them), then it makes sense. That should also be telling the Royals what they should be thinking as far as moving Gordon off of third for Callaspo, but then again, no one else has good enough scouts to see what a defensive stud Yuni is.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
what about Mike Jacobs?
Scott Thornton?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Calvin Pickering?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
eep -- even KilaMonster
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
I'd do Kila for Pie in a second, less, even
no way MacPhail goes for that… maybe if the Royals threw in Rosa? I wouldn’t if I were him.
This sucks. The Os are hemoragging outfielders, and the Royals don’t have jack they really need. And their GM is too smart to be screwed.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
i wish/hope Kila gets a chance
but I sorta envy your willingness to move on from Kila to get Pie. It would be tougher for me b/c I take it a little more personally.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Dec 8, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Kila has his uses
and on the current roster, should be 1B/Dhing on Opening day. H e has his uses. But really, his exreme upside is league average player, where Pie already is one. Kila’s actually older than Pie. KIla’s probably a 1 to 1.5 WAR player, and that might e optimistic. That’s a decent stopgap 1B/DH compared to Gload/Jacobs/whatever… but I’d rather have Pie.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Cashman proved once again today
that it’s not all about the Ca$h, he’s a smart dude. Not sure about that deal with the Yanks, they sure as Heck won’t be taking Farns’ salary, though.
MacPhail is another smart dude, who rebuilt the Os by bending over one of Dayton’s heros, Bill Bavasi. I’d love to get Pie, I just hope Dayton doesn’t give too much up.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think everyone forgets
that the Yankees made a point of getting rid of Farnsworth’s salary about 16 months ago.
This space for rent.
I don't see us making any trades
Sign a free agent catcher and CF. The CF can’t be Posednik though.
We have the cash to do it.
I actually think Guillen is going to have a decent year. If he doesn’t, he’ll basically be out of the big leagues.
I'm rooting for Guillen to have a big year - I also thing Getz Fields will help the Royals - we need Pagan/Gardner
Guillen was in a bubbly, optimistic mood on Wednesday as he called from Miami, where he’s rehabilitating from surgery on his left ankle and another on his back.
“I’m doing great, just rehabbing a lot, working hard, staying motivated, trying to have a big year next year — and I believe that’s going to happen,” Guillen said, “because I’m finally healthy.”
Coming up on the third and final year of his contract with the Royals that pays him $12 million per season, Guillen had a disappointing 2009. He played just 81 games and batted .241 with nine home runs and 40 RBIs. That was after a .264/20/97 season in 2008.
His two turns on the disabled list were attributed to problems with his right hip and knee. But that, he revealed Wednesday, was only part of the problem. There was a growth in the lower left side of his back, which he described as a cyst, and a bone causing pain in his left ankle. He had surgery to correct both problems before the season ended.
“The ankle surgery was the worst one. That was pretty bad. They took a large piece of bone out of my left ankle. That was the reason I was not producing. I was hurt,” Guillen said.
After being out April 10-25 and again July 23-Sept. 1, he came back to play in two games at Oakland before shutting down for the season.
“I had a large piece of bone hanging around my left ankle and my left side was all messed up and my swing was not the same,” Guillen said. “My lower back was killing me. I tried to play through it, and unfortunately, I was not able to play through that.”
Now that Guillen is gearing up for next season, so is the rumor mill, and the New York Daily News has suggested the Royals are interested in trading him to the Mets for Angel Pagan, a switch-hitting outfielder who batted .306 in 86 games last season. That would involve the Royals picking up part of Guillen’s salary.
“That’s what I keep hearing from my mom. She lives in New York and it was in the paper, but you know what, my mind is to play for the Kansas City Royals this season and finish the last year of my contract there,” Guillen said.
“But it’s all business, and I understand the business side and some decisions need to be made. I’m not even thinking about it. If it happens, it happens. If not, I’m getting ready for the Kansas City Royals this year.”
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 9, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Well at least hoping for the miracle of actual production from Guillen
is raised slightly… I still don’t think he should play RF.
From Dutton
Unless the clubs (Baltimore and KC) rekindle talks, the Royals will likely continue their pursuit of free-agent outfielder Scott Podsednik.
DDJ-Posednik-Guillen
(shudder)
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 8, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Just wait til we trade DDJ and put Fields out there.
Dayton will set another high for Runs Allowed, another low for Runs Scored, and sink to below 70 wins again.
Dayton Moore thought process:
Well, the infield defense is set with Yuni (lateral movement), Callaspo (consistency), Getz (looks like a fielder), and Bloomy (versatility, grit)…and Gordon and Butler (if I have to) — let’s move on to the outfield D: Hoagi (strong arm), check; Fields (???), check; now who can play CF?…… needs to be gritty and/or white and/or fast……
Blank
Career UZR/150 in CF
David Dejesus: +4.9
Scott Podsednik: -5.6
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 8, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Jeff Fiorentino and Justin Huber
were both signed by the Hiroshima Carp. I know df has a thing for Fiorentino and hadn’t heard this mentioned yet. Also glad to hear we don’t want to spend more than $2million on a FA catcher.
I may have a new favorite team
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder when their GM's contract is up
Can we get a good deal on their jerseys?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 9, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Peter Gammons Joining NESN
didn’t see that one coming
http://www.nesn.com/2009/12/peter-gammons-to-join-nesn-and-nesncom-in-2010.html
Holy Shit!!!...Peterson resigned...Am I dead?...Is This Heaven?
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Dec 8, 2009 11:33 PM EST reply actions
The funny thing is, this will have no appreciable effect on his life or his work
All he ever does is talk to and about the Yankees and the Red Sox anyway, so why not be rid of the (admittedly very thin) veneer of journalistic neutrality needed to work for ESPN?
by Soria's Unibrow on Dec 9, 2009 4:40 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn't have said it better myself
Really, I couldn’t
Who is going to replace Olivo's power?
The #1 problem with last year’s team was a lack of power, and if Olivo signs elsewhere, the problem becomes much worse. Admittedly a healthy Guillen will help, but I am really concerned Greinke could lose a lot of 1-0 games.
Will Myers?
I don’t see what more he has left to prove in the minors.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 9, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bryce Harper will be the youngest MLB player ever
When he debuts at the night game on the day he was drafted.
BUCK!
Seriously, they had the same OPS+ last year. Buck’s probably good for about 20 homers in a 120 games. Brayan Pena could probalby hit about 10 in part time play. I really don’t think Olivo’s power will be missed. Our catching situation produced a crazy amount, and not all of Olivo’s homers came at the C position. He played a fair amount of DH too. And picking up a veteran catcher probably isn’t going to replace that power. Especially when Bengie Molina goes to the Mets for $6M and 2 years. How ridiculous is that?
Apparently Jason Kendall<code/>
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Ignore That Code.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 9, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Darn Phil.
I thought the code behind Kendall was a secret way to juice him up to Johnny Bench stats without steroids.
You've crushed our dreams.
by hunter s. royal on Dec 9, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Royals Review
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The CC Sabathia appreciation society shall now come to order
- The Juice: Well, that was ugly; Tigers outlast Twins in 13
- Create-a-Caption: This is your owner, Chicago Cubs fans
- Does another team have a Houston-type spoiler effort in them?
- Faith in Friars: Does a 7-game losing streak signal Padres doom?
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
