Best MLB Player from 1990 - 2007?

by paleblueeyes on Feb 18, 2009 1:55 PM EST Comment 33 comments

I was recently asked by one of my brothers who do I think was the best MLB player in the Steroid Era. He put the timeframe of 1990 - 2007 and that sounds like a fine range to me. Anyhow, I thought it would be a great topic for discussion.

Let's not disqualify for admitted or perceived use of performance enhancing substances. Also, let's do pitchers, closers, and position players seperately. Finally, let's do the best single seasons and the best overall. I believe that leaves us with the following 4 categories for the given timeframe:

1. Position Player - Best Single Season

2. Position Player - Best Overall

3. Pitcher - Best Single Season

4. Pitcher - Best Overall

5. Closer - Best Single Season

6. Closer - Best Overall

What are some good sites that allows one to reaserch the statistics?

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Comments

you can limit the years included on MLB.com's stats page

but its kinda bulky to do so

by Will McDonald on Feb 18, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions

Baseball Reference

baseballreference.com

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 18, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions

Barry Lamar Bonds

Don’t have time to fill out details.

Banny being Banny.

by JobDDT on Feb 18, 2009 2:15 PM EST reply actions

Agreed.

Not sure you can debate this any other way.

I just got back from your mom's basement.

by Warden11 on Feb 18, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions

The answer to all six

Is Ross Gload.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 18, 2009 2:22 PM EST reply actions

How dare you disrespect

Tony Pena Jr like that. Gload’s not even 1/10 the closer Pena is.

Sarcasm™. It's the new gravy.

by jonfmorse on Feb 19, 2009 2:47 AM EST up reply actions

But how many walls has TPJ run through?

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by Matt Klaassen on Feb 19, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

hypothetical walls, that is

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by Matt Klaassen on Feb 19, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

More importantly

How many balls has he swatted off the OF wall.

Tony might have an extra $200 for selling his dad’s manager of the year award.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Feb 19, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions

Terrific avatar by the way.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 18, 2009 2:40 PM EST reply actions

the easy ones

if steroids aren’t an issue, i’d have a hard time arguing against

Bonds as best position player.

Bonds 2004 as best season. 120 IBB, all you need to know. So good, no one in baseball wanted to face him.

3. Pitcher – Best Single Season – I’d need to research

4. Pitcher – Best Overall – Greg Maddux

5. Closer – Best Single Season – I’d need to research

6. Closer – Best Overall – Mariano Rivera

by ZeppelinDZ on Feb 18, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions

after reading d_f below

I want to append my answer to add Pedro 99 as my best pitcher season, still not sure on closer tho

by ZeppelinDZ on Feb 18, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah,

I’m not too precise here, but I did you a database and some other stuff…

1. Position Player – Best Single Season: Bonds, 2001

2. Position Player – Best Overall: Barry Bonds

3. Pitcher – Best Single Season: Pedro 1999, although Clemens 1997 is very close

4. Pitcher – Best Overall: I would say Clemens overall, but I looked at my database, and it could very well be Randy Johnson. Not sure what would be worse. I was hoping for Pedro.

5. Closer – Best Single Season. Hmmm… Probably the best performance by a relief pitcher was Mariano Rivera’s 1996 — simply awesome — but he wasn’t the “closer” back then (Wetteland was, Rivera only had 5 saves). Yes, with or without leverage, an aweseome season. he was as valuable as many aces that season. (Sometime I’ll do a study comparing that season with the best of Quiz and Gossage). Shows how relievers should really be used.

If you just want single seasons by “closer” relievers, well, then it’s closer. I can’t be too precise, because I haven’t imported all this data for leverage yet. I’m trying something new for relievers that I wont’ bore you with, and I’m having to pick and choose. Eric Gagne was awesome in 2003 (although it still wasn’t quite as good as Rivera in ‘96). It looks from here like that was better than any Rivera season (although Rivera has a few seasons that come close). Hoffman’s ‘98 just misses out. Brad Lidge came close in 2004 (also had a great year this year). Guess I’d have to say Gagne 2003 among the closers, although Rivera was better in ’96, even counting leverage.

6. Closer – Best Overall. Rivera. And it isn’t particularly close.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by Matt Klaassen on Feb 18, 2009 2:50 PM EST reply actions

interesting question...

Pedro 1999 vs. Pedro 2000?

23 wins v.s 1.7 era

forget advanced metrics for a sec, what “feels” better?

by ZeppelinDZ on Feb 18, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions

If a metric was truly "advanced," I couldn't use it

I dunno… probably 1999, that was the season he came out of the ’pen against Cleveland, right?

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by Matt Klaassen on Feb 18, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions

pedro's peak was completely insane

by Will McDonald on Feb 18, 2009 3:14 PM EST reply actions

ERA+ of 291 in 2000

that may be the highest I’ve ever seen

by Will McDonald on Feb 18, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions

Although I haven't added park adjustments yet

I did add most everythign else. Based on FIP and with custom run-to-win conversion for era and the effect of individual pitcher on seasonal run environment, here are Pedro’s top five season in Wins Above Replacement

1999: 13.6 (Rivals and perhaps surpasses Bonds at his best. Fangraphs 2002 Bonds at 13.4 WAR)
2000: 10.9
1997: 9.8
2002: 8.7 (this is the year fangraphs starts. They have 8.3. I’m in the process of updating my SQL queries to move from 1.28 of league RA/FIP to pythagorean win%. Isn’t that fascinating?)
2003: 8.4 (FanGraphs: 7.9)
2005: 6.9
1998: 6.8
2001: 6.4

Best 5 total is 51.4

Clemens top 5:
1997: 12.0
1988: 10.4
1987: 9.8
1991: 9.7
1992: 9.3

Total: 51.2

Randy Johnson

2001: 11.5
1995: 10.8
2000: 10.7
2004: 10.6
1999: 10.6

Total: 54.2

Ugh. Maybe park adjustments can save us.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by Matt Klaassen on Feb 18, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions

By the way...

Steroids were around before 1990.

Just an fyi.

Banny being Banny.

by JobDDT on Feb 18, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions

lies

by ZeppelinDZ on Feb 18, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

prove it.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Feb 18, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions

jose canseco said so....

thats all the proof you should need at this point

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Feb 18, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions

People have admitted to taking steroids as early as the 1960s

Canseco took them in the 80s.

Banny being Banny.

by JobDDT on Feb 19, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions

I just used Win Shares

1. Barry Bonds 2001 (54), Barry Bonds 2004 (53), Barry Bonds 2002 (49)
2. Barry Bonds(591), Craig Biggio (394), Gary Sheffield (392)
3. Roger Clemens 1997 (32), Greg Maddux 1995 (30), Pedro Martinez 2000, Randy Johnson 2002, (29)
4. Greg Maddux(332), Roger Clemens (299), Randy Johnson (299)
5. Eric Gagne 2003 (25), Jeff Montgomery 1993 (22), Keith Foulke 2003 (21)
6. Mariano Rivera(184), Trevor Hoffman (160), Tom Gordon (152)

Single season relievers could be off – they are far down the list and tough to find.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Feb 18, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions