I can’t really quibble at all with your list. It pretty much reflects my thoughts as well.

Interesting there are no third basemen.

I will take Mathewson, Johnson, Feller, Koufax, Clemens, and Pedro & start them in a rotation against your Maddux over a full 162-game season.

I’d win 95+ games.

Wagner is only #12?

Blasphemy! He’s #2 or #3 of ALL-TIME.

You can’t tell me that there are only 15 all-time players who are better than Clemente was.

I know we’re talking baseball here, but I don’t like the use of "ballplayer’ as baseball-only.

I’m gonna say Jim Thorpe or Bo Jackson because they were good at multiple ball sports (including baseball), and also non-ball (but perhaps not puck) sports.

how could Brett not crack a top 25???

and is it me or did Rod Carew get the shaft here also???

and I’m not trying to be sanctimonious here, just to note that it might be a bit better to say that “great major leagers of all-time” due to segregation. Not wanting to start a debate or accuse anyone of anything. I hate it when white liberals (like myself) play the role of the Pharisee (and we’re really good at it), but I do think it is, at the very least, a helpful historical distinction. I’m not an expert, but even read James, and this list doesn’t make sense without Oscar Charleston, Josh Gibson, etc.

- It’s true that Negro Leaguers (and, perhaps, even players in other organized leagues throughout the world) should be included. However, I limited it to MLB-only. We know MLB was tainted before 1947, and even after that – with regard to segregation, but my list was rigid. MLB-performance only.

- “+” is an important stat, I think, because it measures performance relative to era. We know this. Maddux absolutely dominated in an enormous hitters’ era. His career had amazing longevity and consistency. I think he is worthy of being discussed among the handful of all-time greatest pitchers.

- I should have included A-Rod; he falls somewhere in the top 20, if he retired today.

- “Ballplayer” vs. MLB Player. OK….but I’ve never been a fan of legistics or political correctness. It’s important to understand the context under which I’m reporting. This is a baseball forum.

- I didn’t see any 3B quite impressive enough to crack the top 20.

- How many catchers during the era of Johnny Bench could actually hit, at all? That’s why I felt he deserved special consideration. How valuable of a commodity was a player at the time. Chase Utley might fill a similar role, today.

- Agreed on Clemente, Mays, and Ryan being over-rated. Certain other players, I think, are over-rated….like Koufax. I understand horrific tragedies occur (Gehrig, Campanella, et al), but this is an assessment on what they accomplished during their career. It includes circumstances beyond the players’ control, unfortunately. Such as military service time.

- I’d love to find the calculations for VORP – and I know devil_fingers, you aren’t enthralled with this statistic – for every player in MLB history – and then assess the players accordingly. I wish other advanced statistics were available for these players (FIP, EqA, etc.). RC/G is a good metric, I think.

Well above average pitcher for 6-7 years and a game-altering hitter? Check, please. #1 of all time, hands down, IMO.

Mostly so I can, once again, direct you to this note he wrote.

mentioned above. Hey, if we’re leaving personal stuff out of this, like the racism, drug use, domestic violence, etc. of some players , we can surely leave out his terrible annoucing. The guy is the best 2B of all-time. He’s 1975-1976 seasons were as good as anyone’s great seasons. Hornsby was a better hitter. Morgan was better at everything else.