Gut Response: Are the Royals Better than the Twins?
by Freneau on Feb 5, 2009 6:00 AM EST
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintAs we continue through the AL Central, America's favorite division...
After a startling 63% of you said that the Royals were better than the Tigers, the feeling swung wildly back the other way when we turned to the Indians, with only 22% believing that the Royals are better than the Tribe. Something of a surprising figure given that the Tribe only finished six games ahead of the Royals last year.
So, as we move up the division standings, we turn to the Twins.
| '07 Pythag | '08 Pythag | |
| Twins | 80-82 | 89-74 |
| Royals | 74-88 | 72-90 |
Assuming you are mostly familiar with the major transactions of Dayton Moore, here's the info for the Twins (let me know if I miss something).
Losses: Adam Everett, Carl Pohlad
Added:
This is what the Twins do, although rarely to this extreme. Usually they make a bad trade and sign C-level free agent or two, but as far as I can tell they've really done neither just yet.
For some reason, the White Sox and Twins had good seasons last year, while the Tribe and Tigers struggled. In '07 it was reversed. Honestly, I have no idea why. The Twins operate on a very fragile platform of success, as from year to year they rely on four or five Lew Ford types in their lineup and another two in the back of the rotation. Some years, enough of those guys perform well enough, and along with the team's core of elite talent, they can win 89 games or so. (They've hit big on Mauer and Morneau, which has stabilized their entire roster and can produce #4 starters at will.) But if there's any slip, then they fail, and end up looking like they barely tried in the process. To wit, Brian Buscher is apparently the starting third baseman in 2009.
So you tell me, are the Royals better than the Twins?
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I voted "no"
but it’s pretty close
I’m surprised that “No” is running away with it… the Indians are a lot better than the Twins
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btw, the Twins should really be signing Joe Crede...
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I am pretty high on crede as well
stunned he hasn’t been signed, considering he’s basically the only 3b out there
well, other than teahen
Wigginton, although he just signed
I think there’s understandable concern about his health. I think he’s another Boras client who is holding out until he absolutely can’t get anything other than a one-year deal.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
It would help if
Crede wasn’t such a douchebag. He’s from Jefferson City, MO, and everyone that knows him says he’s a jerk. Not saying he is, but that’s what I’ve heard.
My first no vote
I like the Royals pitching better than the Indians and Tigers but can’t say the same thing about the Twins. I wish they would’ve locked up Gagne for the 3m. If Boras told him to turn it down over 500K then he did him a disservice.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
I don't understand why 63%
saying we are better than the Tigers is “startling”. We finished better than them last year and although we know that doesn’t mean we will be better next year, they added nothing of impact and we are just getting older and more experienced at key positions.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 5, 2009 12:22 PM EST reply actions
well, it was one game ahead of them
and they basically had everything go wrong last year to get to that point
one man’s opinion
Third Base
I agree. The Twins should sign Joe Crede. We can use his bat in the lineup, even if he only plays evrey third day. He’ll be better than the free agents they signed the last couple of years. Go Twins!
crede's not a good hitter
better than the options, of course. But when he’s on, he’s a defensive stud
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
With their pitching
And considering the other options, Crede makes a lot of sense I would think.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
+1 on Crede's hitter-ismness
Benefited greatly from batting 6&7 behind some high-OBP guys in his good years, especially ’06. Also never a high OBP guy, not even if you use the Bloomquist Approach To Being A High OBP Guy.
Jayhawk baseball - a tradition since Steve Jeltz
They play the game the right way
Am I the only one surprised by how many runs they scored last year? That can’t possibly keep up can it?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
no
lucky situational hitting
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
The most boring successful team in baseball
On one level it’s commendable that year in year out they are able to do so much with so little.
But really, other than Liriano, Morneau and Mauer the Twins are a huge snooze fest to watch. For all his success, even Joe Nathan is boring.
Brendan Harris and Brian Buscher have got to be the least dynamic left side of the IF in the league, and the Baker-Slowey-Blackburn-Perkins rotation screams, in the Twins Brad Radke/Kevin Tapani-esque way, “insert a non-descript looking white-guy with seemingly average stuff but good control here and win the division”. Yawn.
Don’t get me wrong. The Twins are a great franchise year in and year out. But at some point I want them to splurge on a FA just for the hell of it so I know that they’re being run by humans and not robots. Think about it, when is the last time they signed a high-flying FA? Jack Morris? They’re like the Mormons of baseball – impeccably Midwestern, tight-knit, well-run, friendly but surreptitiously hostile to outsiders, and flat-out boring.
Waiting for April.
by DC Royal on Feb 5, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
they're too busy signing Livan Hernandez, Tony Batista, Craig Monroe types
you know, crap to block their young talent
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
I think reading Aaron Gleeman
try to stay hip and cool with the sabermetric set while still defending the Kubel extension is pretty exciting
he’s like the Minnesota version of Steven Goldman
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Scott Baker might be my least favorite player ever
Especially since he’s nearly no-hit the Royals, like, what 5 times already?
Waiting for April.
I seem to recall wanting us to draft him
But now that I look it up, that means we wouldn’t have gotten Shane Costa, so I think we made the right decision in the end.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
any other reasons?
I actually kinda like Baker, except he’s a Twin
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
I would just rather be historically dominated by someone like Tim Lincecum or A.J. Burnett instead of a three-pitch pony who tops out at 91
Waiting for April.
didn't the Royals make Timmy their b---- earlier this season?
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sorta
Timmy’s wildness contributed mightily to that mediocre Kaufmann appearance.
Jayhawk baseball - a tradition since Steve Jeltz
now that I actually look at it again
you’re right. Only two BBs over 5 IP. Perhaps I’ve been hanging with Michael Phelps too much.
Jayhawk baseball - a tradition since Steve Jeltz
I was at that game and it was extremely hot.
Davies last only like an 1.1 IP. TL threw a wild pitch and DDJ just wiped him out at the plate scoring from second base. TL wasn’t his usual self that’s for sure but I think KC was unusually patient that day. KC down 10-3 came back for a 11-10 win thanks to the SF bp. TL lasted only 5 innings, all of this is off memory so if some of it is off sorry.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
+1
also was at that game. one of the best games i’ve been too.
and Aviles made an awesome play at the end of the game, then again, he was throwing out the slowest runner in baseball.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
Remember the booing after Aviles was called out on that fake strike?
Lasted a good 5 minutes. Loved it.
Totally forgot that
Ya that was great. The crowd really got into the game late reminded me of how into it the crowd would be back when Brett was playing.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
anothre fine product
of the Twins #2/#3 starting pitcher factory
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Twins will regress this year
They scored a ridiculous amount of runs for their production. That has to come back to average in the future. Royals will take them by a few games, unless their wheels fall off. I don’t think any team is out of reach this year. We seem to be the only team that improved. Chicago’s moves made them worse, the Twins are lucky, the Tigers fell apart, and the Indians lost their mojo (VMart, Hafner, Fausto Carmona, what the hell happened? Did Cliff Lee steal their mojo and eat it for breakfast making him invincible?). Royals could be better than all of them this year.
well...
i say we improved, but we’ll see if TPJ and RGload are still here on Opening Day. If we sign Sheets for 1 year deal and incentives that might put us over the top.
Reports are in the Sheets may need surgery
DeRosa also improves the Indians. Hafner and Martinez are unlikely to be worse in 2009 than they were in 2008.
The Royals are closer to the Twins and Sox, and I’d say they’ve got a good shot at outplaying the Sox, but the TIgers and Indians are both better, simply due to regression to the mean.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I am sure fans of other teams look at a list like:
Losses: Mark Grudzielanek, Joey Gathright, Ramon Ramirez, Leo Nunez
Added: Kyle Farnsworth, Mike Jacobs, Coco Crisp, Willie Bloomquist, Doug Waechter
and conclude that is a team that did nothing to improve.
hmmmm....
Using just, that list, going just by CHONE 2009s projections and valuations, since it’s all right there, and that list
Losses (by WAR):
Grudz: 0.8
Gator: 1.1
RamRod: 1.4
Nunez: 0.6
Total losses: 3.9 WAR
Additions:
Farns: 0.5
Jacobs: 0.7
CoCo: 2 (didn’t use CHONE’s pessimistic defensive projection, gave a generous +7)
Bloomquist: 0.6 (assumes [shudder] full-time play
Waechter: 0.3
Total addition: 4.1 WAR
= 0.2 WAR improvement in Gopherballs’ list.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Elbow surgery won't be back til July or August
they think. I thought I read somewhere that if a player signs after June then the draft compensation is waived. July or August is perfect for our ride to the parade !!!
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 5, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm shocked that this vote is about the same as the Indians vote
The Royals are much closer to the Twins than the Indians.
The immoderate moderator
I think after last year
I just can’t doubt the Twins anymore before the season. I expected them to be not very good at all last year and somehow they almost won the division. I’m going to do the opposite this year and hopefully that makes them do horribly.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 5, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
GARDY TIME~!
© Joe Posnanski
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
My quick take
Teams clearly better than the Royals:
Indians
Tigers
Teams possibly better than the Royals:
Twins
White Sox
Stats count.
The immoderate moderator
Heart counts more!
We just want it more than they do.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I absolutely HATE the Twins
I just don’t get them. I see them every year and the team should suck and they shouldn’t be any good but they’ve got a nice starting staff and usually have a deep bullpen and they score just enough runs to win. It’s amazing but man, do i hate them.
My gut instinct says “HELL NO” without even thinking twice that the Royals are better than the Twins and when I think and analyze, I still think the Royals are better than the Twins but whatever…. I guess you can’t count them out. Going to have to wait and see.
by Royal from Queens on Feb 5, 2009 7:10 PM EST reply actions
Mauer and Morneau are great hitters
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
yeah... and that's it!
The rest of their team consists of Carlos Gomez, Brendan Harris, Alexi Casilla, Nick Punto. I mean Gomez, and Delmon Young SHOULD improve…. but jeeze louise that lineup is punchless.
And who the hell is Brian Buscher?
by Royal from Queens on Feb 5, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
And then there's their consistently good pitching
And that helps a lot too. Adequate hitting (two great hitters and a few decent ones) mixed with very good pitching and good defense will keep you in contention and get you to the playoffs sometimes.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Feb 5, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Well i did give props to the pitching
I’m not oblivious to the quality and the depth of their staff.
by Royal from Queens on Feb 5, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
oh, I agree
but Mauer and Morneau are just way better offensively than anyone on the Royals (although overall, Morneau is quite overrated). Jason Kubel’s also a decent hitter, but he has little or nor defensive value. Delmon Young is a guy like Butler — so young in the majors that he has to improve, except he’s only 23 and already plays defense like Jose Guillen does at 33. Cuddyer is about the same, just older. Gomez is a defensive monster, we’ll see if he can hit.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Voted no.
Too many question marks with the roster as of now to say we’re better than anybody in our division. Until we get rid of TPJ and Gload and solve the questions at 1st/DH and see if Hillman is going to pay attention to R/L platoons and use Gobble wisely and keep HORam out of the rotation and keep Bloomy on the bench most of the time, etc………………
"ifs" are the currency of sports fans
Or maybe hope is. However at this moment, I feel my hopes for the Royals aren’t quite as strong as the ifs on the dollar scale.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue."
by Joseph Landis on Feb 9, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
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