Save Me! Joakim Soria Now Tops This Decade for Royals Pitchers
by royalsreview on Feb 6, 2009 11:00 AM EST
in News
63 comments
It didn't take Joakim Soria very long to claim the coveted title of Royal Pitcher with Most Saves During the '00s.
Here's your immortal Top Five:
- Joakim Soria: 59 Saves
- Roberto Hernandez: 54 Saves
- Mike MacDougal: 50 Saves
- A. Burgos: 20 Saves
- Jeremy Affeldt: 17 Saves
Takeaways:
- I have abbreviated Burgos's first name because, frankly, I don't feel the need to look up how to spell it anymore.
- Did you know that Roberto Hernandez played until 2007?
- Mac's saves total is pretty low considering he was a Royal for like six years.
- Jeremy Affeldt sucks. Good thing Dayton traded him after like a week with the Royals. (And yes, I was just as wrong about that trade as everyone else.)
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well, I guess it is the result of
not many opportunities for saves and a closer by committee approach for a while there.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Feb 6, 2009 2:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yes and no
the Royals’ pen had turned blowing saves into a science this decade before we stumbled across Dotel and Soria.
by DarthYoshi on Feb 6, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mac the Ninth
was only the closer for two half-seasons, really.
And Jeremy Affeldt for 1-1/2. He was mainly a starter. And Dayton did GOOD in getting Shealy for him. I’m convinced that he could be good, given a chance. 2007 he was injured.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Feb 6, 2009 2:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Affeldt may well put together a decent MLB career, but he wasn’t going to do it here.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Feb 6, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the feeling, but I'm not sure that stands up to the evidence
Dayton Moore and his staff are supposed to be scouting gurus, who can see “what a player is gonna do” beyond what he “has done.” That’s why we (rightly, in my view) give him credit for signing Meche, despite the fact that his past peformance didn’t really justify the size of that contract. And what do you know, he’s been more than worth the money.
By the same token, then, when those guys let someone like Affeldt go because of his past performance being “inconsistent” or whatever, and then he goes on to be pretty good, well, I guess the gurus missed something.
And by the way, he was actually pretty good with the Royals, in a mixed role. Not great, but good, and the potential for being a good reliever was actually there in the stats. Here are his WARs:
2002: 1.2
2003: 2.9
2004: 1.4
2005: 0.4
In 2006 he was below replacement, but of course he got traded to the Rockies. Those seasons are mostly mixed starting and relieving, so it’s hard to tell how much is which. It wasn’t a “no-brainer” what to do, but the idea that he just suddenly got a lot better (I can agree he probably got a bit better) after he left the Royals doesn’t really standup to scrutiny, nor does it back up DMGM’s reputation as a pitching guru.
But that’s the only time he’s made a bad call with a young starter/reliever.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a fairly strong belief
that Leo Nunez is going to be a good pitcher, maybe a very good pitcher, somewhere other than Kansas City for the next five to ten years. I hate the Nunez for Jacobs trade quite a bit.
I am not at all sure having Jacobs on the roster will make the 2009 Royals better than they would have been without him. And Jacobs is expensive. And a free agent after 2009. And Nunez was under team control for at least another three years. And he was already more valuable than Jacobs, and in my mind likely to continue to grow in value. And he was cheaper than Jacobs.
I think Moore got all googly eyed when he saw those 30 homeruns and just didn’t think this one through nearly well enough.
Unless I am wrong. But I don’t think I am this time.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Feb 6, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a fairly strong belief
that Leo Nunez will be out of the league within 2-3 years due to injury.
Jacobs>Gload= Win
Shealy’s career high is 144 games back in ’05 so I doubt that we could count on him to make a complete season. Butler as much as I like him showed some youth problems in the dugout(hearsay) and at bat and if KC went into the season with Shealy and Butler, Gload would pretty much be assured to make the 25 man roster. Hopefully this will squash that.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 6, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a fan of the 'Jacobs>Gload= Win' formula
because Gload never should’ve been the everyday 1B.
We had one of the worst everyday 1B in the history of baseball (non-deadball era), so heck, you could do ‘Teahen > Gload = Win’ and still have Nunez.
by Top Ramen on Feb 6, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've said it before
Its like being excited we got Elarton because he replaced Jose Lima.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Feb 6, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nunez is really a nonimpact pitcher
that can easily be replaced. He is likely to be a health risk and last years 2.98 ERA was pretty lucky. He averaged only 4.84 K/9 last year with a career low HR/9 of 0.37. Seems like a candidate for for a down year to me.
RamRam is the bigger loss and I don’t hear the whining on here nearly as much for him.
Jacobs even at only a .800 OPS is an upgrade over Shealy/Butler just based on past performance and injury histories. Plus a player with his defensive limitations doesn’t prove as much of a block if Kila and or Butler start/continue to play well. Someone like Giambi would’ve proved to be a much more significant block IMO and that’s the last thing we need to do is blocking young talent.
We’ve all been thru this a thousand times and yet people are still crying over Nunez like he was some sort of stud. Put Rosa in the pen and we’ll quickly forget Leo Nunez.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 7, 2009 4:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The issue is less Nunez himself
than the relative pay and quality of him compared to Jacobs. WAR is a good way to mention this, since that measures how easily replaced Jacobs is. ON the other side, we’ve been over it a million times: Jacobs isn’t very good, and was easily replaced more cheaply by superior players like Branyan and HInske.
Leo Nunez WAR
2006: -0.1
2007: 0.4
2008: 0.5
Total: 0.8,
CHONE projected WAR for 2009 is 0.6, costing league-minimum
Mike Jacobs
2006: 0.6
2007: 0.3
2008 0.0
CHONE projected WAR for 2009, as a no-defense DH: 0.2 WAR, costing at least $3M next year
The concern is about the overall trade off, because you can’t just consider the quality of players (although that is a concern here), but also their contract. The concern is about what this says about DMGM and how he thinks about trades.
True, Ramirez is a lot better than Nunez, and Farnsworth has an even lesser chance of replacing him. But Crisp is a lot more valuable than Jacobs, although he’s really going to have to live up to his defensive rep to be as valuable as Ramirez projects… and that’s without comparing contracts. So the Royals surely don’t get a clear win on this one. In fact, once you read recent Fangraphs stuff on how F.A.T. CFs are still undervalued, this trade looks less and less good.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just my gut feeling,
but I think Nunez will be more valuable than Ramirez over the next three years. I saw him pitch on the last day of the 2007 season and he was shockingly good. I expected him to break out in 2008, and he had an excellent season. I do not know if he will be a quality starter, perhaps. I think Ramirez was enjoying the more flukey year last year. I think Ramirez has a much higher chance of collapsing in 2009 than does Nunez.
Nunez’ sub-three ERA last year was lucky-good. I don’t expect him to keep his ERA that low over the next few years obviously. What I do expect is he will contribute anywhere from 70 to 180 innings a season (probably the former), and keep his ERA around four. I give him a 30% chance of becoming an MLB starter with an ERA in the low fours in the next couple years.
He was a f*cking valuable thing! You just don’t give a f*cking valuable thing away for nothing. We all know this lesson now. I don’t like Jacobs. Even if money and contract terms were not a factor I think this trade downgraded the 2009 roster. And it sure as hell downgrades the 2010 and 2011 roster.
Unless I am wrong. I feel pretty secure in my rightness on this one.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Feb 7, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You might be right
but I believe Nunez will never sniff 180 Innings in any season in his career. The kid is a twig and has shaky mechanics.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 7, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What reliever does
sniff 180 IP a season? There are plenty of starters who can’t manage that.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Feb 7, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just goin off his opinion
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 7, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nunez might start next year.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Feb 7, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Not that it’s Gospel, but CHONE does long-term projections (and Rally heavily qualifies their accuracy, saying that they shouldn’t be taken too seriously). It has Jacobs being about the same the next few years, but doesn’t give WAR. It does do this for pitchers, though, although the 2009 projections are different in the long-term than the weighted RAR he does elsewhere… With that in mind:
Nunez
2009 0.4
2010 0.5
2011 0.4
Ramirez
2009 1.2
2010 1.0
2011 1.1
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nunez vs. Ramirez
It is just my sense of these two pitchers. Ramirez had a great year but I don’t know why. What part of his game did he radically change when he came to KC? I just do not see what new foundation there is in his game that makes so many people expect him to continue to be suddenly great. The Rockies gave up on him last year.
To me, Ramirez in 2008 seemed very Wellemeyeresque. Randomly good suddenly for no decernible reason. Of course Wellemeyer has done well since the Royals DFAed him, but that only weakens my point so I will ignore it.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Feb 7, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez
had a bad 2007, but the idea that this season was “out of nowhere” is a bit misguided. He was almost as good in 2006 in Colorado. tRA, for my money the best defense-independent pitching stat (and tRA* is the regressed version that gets at “true talent” for that year, says that he was pretty good both years. Wasn’t he hurt in 2007? I don’t know, it’ still counts, of course.
(unleveraged)
2006: 2.90 tRA, 1.9 WAR (3.85 tRA*)
2007: 4.74 tRA, 0.0 WAR (4.51 tRA*)
2008: 2.60 tRA, 2.2 WAR (3.42 tRA*)
Compare Nunez’s relief stats from the same years (no leverage):
2006: 7.27 tRA, -0.2 WAR (4.73 tRA*)
2007: 1.56 tRA, 0.7 WAR (4.47 tRA*)
2008: 3.22 tRA, 1.1 WAR, (4.19 tRA*)
Now, Ramirez is older, but Nunez has had more injury problems. Both are good relievers, but I think Ramirez’s record indicates a better and more durable pitcher.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just for the heck of it
Joakim Soria
2007: 2.12 tRA, 2.6 WAR (3.18 tRA*)
2008: 2.82 tRA, 1.7 WAR (3.37 tRA*)
Professor Farnsworth:
2006: 3.82 tRA, 1.0 WAR (3.99 tRA*)
2007: 5.32 tRA, -0.1 WAR (5.31 tRA*)
2008: 5.14 tRA, -0.1 WAR (4.08 tRA*) [NYA]
2008: 6.18 tRA, -0.2 WAR (4.55 tRA* [DET]
Joel “Suitcase” Peralta:
2006: 4.49 tRA, 0.5 WAR (4.65 tRA*)
2007: 4.24 tRA, 0.9 WAR (4.49 tRA*)
2008: 6.32 tRA, -0.7 WAR (4.83 tRA*)
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow,
Farnsworth even looks worse to me now.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Feb 7, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, y eah
I guess this is the ultimate test of DMGM’s ability to find a pitching diamond in the rough
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why you are so low on Nunez
He did have back to back MLB seasons in which he provided above average work. Nunez has a better track record than Ramirez. Plus Nunez seems to me more likely to improve.
Regarding Jacobs, I think he will give the Royals about an .800 OPS as well. But that combined with his poor defense makes him a wash when compared to Shealy, who I expect will OPS no worse than in the upper part of .700. (I actually expect Shealy to OPS over .800, but I’m bullish on him still.) If Jacobs plays as well as we both expect he will he will be only a bit better than the 2007 version of Gload. He is just an expensive guy who forces Butler into the DH slot, which forces Shealy off the team, and forces Guillen back into the OF instead of Teahen, which further degrads the team’s defense, and further decreases the chance that Butler will ever learn to play a position.
In my mind Jacobs is just a cascade of bad. I know we disagree. I hope you are right and Jacobs has an awesome year. I just am not expecting it at all.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Feb 7, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In my mind Jacobs is just a cascade of bad. I know we disagree. I hope you are right and Jacobs has an awesome year. I just am not expecting it at all.
No one ever said Jacobs is gonna have an awesome year. KC has a hole at 1b and has for sometime now. I just am not gonna use defensive stats to try to put someone down. They are all over the board on alot of players. Scouts believe him to be bad and his stats say he is bad so he is bad. These defensive stats are flawed. Jacobs is not good at 1b but none of Shealy, Butler or Kila are dynamic or better than average 1baggers.
Jacobs had a below average BABIP season last year and his ISO was way higher than normal. Maybe he proves that ISO to be on the upswing and his BABIP returns to his average and he can put a .850 OPS season together. If he does then KC has a 1b they can control for a little bit. If he doesn’t then giving up an oftinjured relief pitcher for a one year shot isn’t that big of deal.
The other options at 1b were in house guys who haven’t proved they could stay healthy or perform, Jason Giambi or Eric Hinske. Hinske’s story isn’t all that different from Jacobs except that his track record is longer,slightly older and really doesn’t have the same possible ceiling as Jacobs. Giambi is older and could be on the verge of a breakdown anyday now and I’m not interested in KC locking themselves into a 2 year deal(probably had to fix the option year to get him) at more money that would prove as a sure block to Kila or Billy regardless of performance.
Jacobs is all about the possible ceiling. No matter what the statistics say players can peak at different times in their career and a one year deal for a possibilty of catching a guy at his peak isn’t a bad move. Maybe his ISO is on the rise ala Big Papi maybe it is not. If it is not then KC can pass on offering him arbitration next year and cut bait.
The possible ceiling for Jacobs and the lack of a committment to him is the possible reason this is getting done. Butler or Kila step up then Jacobs can be shipped out. Hinske would’ve been cheaper but doesn’t offer much of a possible ceiling he has pretty much already reached his peak.
I understand where you are coming from Quinn and I understand d_f analysis. It all makes sense to me but I like this move based on the slim possibility of it working I like the bet GMDM is making. I don’t think Shealy was much of an option just based on one September and Butler has really struggle versus RH’s and just giving him the spot didn’t prove to work last year. He didn’t like getting sent down and according to reports he is in better shape than ever so maybe this move combined with an Omaha trip gave BamBam motivation to get his stuff together.
I liked Leo too but his body combined with his mechanics make it seem like he is gonna have a hard time staying healthy so I don’t mind losing him. I think Rosa will prove to be better than Nunez.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 7, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Has KC agreed to arbitration with Jacobs yet?
If they haven’t I see that (probably wrong) as a good sign that he Jacobs is a one year bridge to either Butler or Kila as full time 1baggers.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 6, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the Royals traded for Shealy
2006 – 1/2 of a season of below replacement level pitching
2007 – 1 season of 0.6 WAR pitching
That was all of the team control that the Royals had over Affeldt. They basically traded a rental middle reliever.
Quelle horreur! How could the Royals have wasted such a valuable commodity?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It proved difficult but I actually rec'd that comment. LOL
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 6, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And just to provide a fuller picture of that trade
What the Royals have gotten out of that trade:
2006 0.2 WAR (he was at 0.7 WAR for the whole season and I am conservatively saying only 0.2 WAR of that was with the Royals)
2007 -0.4
2008 0.7 (wow, what a month!)
TOTAL 0.5
So
Affledt 0.6 WAR
Shealy 0.5 WAR
What a horrible, horrendous, stupid trade. The Royals lost that one bigtime.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FIRE DAYTON MOORE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Feb 6, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmm...
just found that on the interwebs, seems more inflammatory than I thought it would be now that I’ve posted it, sorry
who ever thought dry straw would be so flammable?
Inflammable?
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Roberto Hernandez - 12th All-Time in saves in MLB history
More than:
Rich Gossage
Jeff Montgomery
Bruce Sutter
Dave Righetti
Dan Quisenberry
Sparkly Lyle
Hoyt Wilhelm
Tells you what you need to know about saves.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Feb 6, 2009 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
From '92-97
average about 9 K/9, that’s pretty solid stuff in his peak years when he put up the bulk of his saves. Once that dipped so did his career.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 6, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Burgos
Ambiorix – it isn’t that hard to spell.
Unless I spelled it wrong, in which case ignore me.
by cbrett42 on Feb 6, 2009 3:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I just call him Convict Burgos
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
by focs on Feb 6, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just ask prosecuters (and stenographers) everywhere...
they are getting plenty of practice spelling that one
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Feb 6, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Affeldt certainly sucked with the Royals
Persistently and consistently. And when he was traded, the Royals had only 1 1/2 years of team control left of him. Trading him for a 1B who looked like he had upside potential (to a lot of people in addition to Dayton Moore) was a good move. It just appears that Shealy hasn’t panned out. Trading a middle reliever for a first base prospect doesn’t always work out, but it’s a sound move in general. I certainly had and still have no problem with trading Affeldt. At his best, he’s a good setup man. At his worst, he’s awful. And, over his career, he’s been more of the latter than the former. Mostly he’s just a pretty good middle reliever.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
True, he's no J. P. Howell
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See, there are trades that are truly worthy of criticism
Sometimes when you trade for a prospect, it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. And sure, those trades say something about a GM’s judgement, but often prospects just don’t pan out, even when most people expect them to. The Gathright-Howell trade didn’t work out, and it looked bad at the time. I think the Affledt/Bautista-Shealy/Dohman trade is much more defensible.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree
My post above was just about the “scout mystique.” I don’t mean to mock scouting — I really do believe in its value. But I think it has to be invoked consistently.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Howell had a crazy '08
I don’t think his .256 BABIP or .198 versus are very sustainable. Gobble was the better pitcher and prospect at the time of the trade.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 6, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i think he was a little lucky, but I think he’ll still be very good. Wish KC had him in their ’pen.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wish they had at least TRIED him in the pen!
Sadly, if he does build on last year, we can chalk it up as one more cost of having ZERO organizational depth. IMHO, it is the lack of depth in the system that has sorta forced the team to ask young players to assume too important a role too soon in their careers. It arguably set Greinke back a bit, and in the case of Howell the team was so desperate for starters, they didn’t even bother trying the pen with him before trading him. Same think happened with Gobble – they tried to force him into the rotation for a while before finally concluding that he might be only good enough to relieve, so let’s get SOME value out of him.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Feb 6, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still
He is way more valuable than Gathright.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Feb 6, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stat Corner has him at 1.3 WAR this year (without leverage), Fangraphs at 1.5
yeah, that’’s pretty awesome for a reliever. Fangraphs has Soria at 1.5 this past season. Ramram was 1.8.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya definitely
but hey we always have the Graffanino → De La Rosa → RamRam → Crisp turn around.
RamRam was nice but I would’ve like them to give DelaRosa another shot.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Feb 6, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
He had struggled at the majors, but he was a lefty K’ing more than 1 per inning in AAA. And he was traded for an out-of-options CF who couldn’t hit.
That one looked bad when it happened.
Shealy for Affeldt though, looked a lot better, it’s just unfortunate that Shealy hasn’t panned out.
by Top Ramen on Feb 6, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And the alternative...
…was keeping Shealy for a final 1 1/2 seasons of team control while the team was rebuilding. At most, what would that have given the Royals? An additional half a win? In short, in trading Affeldt, the Royals didn’t lose much. Trading him for a prospect made sense.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did it look bad at the time?
i don’t think so. gathright was always rated very highly because he had pretty good bat control and would take walks, steal bases, and play good CF.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Feb 6, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think most thought it looked bad at the time
I certainly thought it looked bad. Gathright couldn’t hit. There was no reason to believe he ever would. He had speed, but no bat and better defensive tools than actual performance.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All this post does is...
…show the limitations of the save as a stat. I think that stat has some value, mind you, but its weakness shows here. …Plus, the 2000-present Royals surely have presented their closers with the lowest number of save opportunities of all the ML clubs. ….Hernandez was a quality pitcher—-he deserved better than KC. – TL
by timlacy on Feb 6, 2009 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it shows...
not only that the save stat isn’t very valuable, but that the Royals were absolutely and completely incapable of either finding, or developing from within, a pitcher (or consistent set of pitchers) that could close out games. For nearly an entire decade. That’s impressive ineptitude.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 6, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So, I guess we can all...
…see, then, the hesitation in making Soria a starter. …But there is NO denying that we’ve been—-hopefully now past tense—-an inept franchise. – tL
by timlacy on Feb 6, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ambiorix Burgos
threatened a man with murder and pulled out a gun the other day. The dispute was over a game of dominos…. awesome!
I wish we kept him, that would have meant no need for muscle like Farsnworth.
by Royal from Queens on Feb 6, 2009 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
and if we had kept Andy Sisco
they could have fought over a taco.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Feb 6, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SHAWN CHACON NOW!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Feb 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would this team have been able to handle
Miguel Olivo, Kyle Farnsworth, Ambiorix Burgos, Andy Sisco, and Shawn Chacon?
Sounds like a tv skit.
by Royal from Queens on Feb 6, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your forgetting the star
Jose Guillen
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
by focs on Feb 7, 2009 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As soon as you said Jose Guillen
I imagined the opening sequence for the show Family Matters and just very quickly saw in my head, Burgos, Farnsworth, Chacon, Olivo, and Guillen doing that ridiculous waving, or shrugging on the shoulders, all the cast members seemed to do during the opening.
Yeah weird whatever…
by Royal from Queens on Feb 7, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Say it with me
Spelling is not hard.
Ambiorix is spelled just like it is pronounced. Ambi-orix. Of course the guy’s a douchebag degenerate according to this JoPo post:
by AxDxMx on Feb 7, 2009 12:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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