ST Games 15 & 16 Open Thread - Split Squad Friday
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 11:48 AM EDT
206 comments
Zacque Greinke starts against the Brewers in Maryvale while Robinson Tejeda starts against the Rangers in Surprise, as the Royals open up a two-front war on the Cactus League.
Yovani Gallardo and Trevor Hoffman are scheduled to pitch for the Brewers. Vicente Padilla gets the start for the Rangers.
Half, you go this way - half, you go that way!
MLB.com has audio for both games.
Maryvale Gameday. Surprise Gameday.
Comment starter: two-front wars in history, good/bad? Your thoughts.
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Was there not
a game thread from yesterday?
by powder blues on Mar 13, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Perfect.....
by powder blues on Mar 13, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lineup vs. Rangers
CF Coco Crisp
2B Bert Callaspo
LF The Jesus
DH Billy Butler
1B Mike Jacobs
C John Buck
3B The Smirk – demotion! SHAVE THOSE SIDEBURNS ALEX!!!!111
RF Ross Gload Blues Explosion
SS Luis Hernandez
P Robinson Tejeda, followed by Jamey Wright, Julio Pimento, Doug Waechter, and Yaz Yabuta
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That must be wrong
there is no Earthly reason for Buck to be ahead of Gordon in the lineup.
George Brett is managing this one right? Crazy guy!
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Mar 13, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup vs. Brewers
2B Spork
SS Tony Pena Jr.
RF Canuck Teahen
1B Ryan Shealy
DH HAWAIIAN PUNCH KA’AIHUE!!!
C Miguel Olivo
LF You will remember this day for the rest of your life Lubanski
3B Rub and Tug Hulett
CF Derrick Robinson
P Planet Zack, followed by Professor Farnswortth, Roman Colon and Tim Hamluack
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That might be the worst
1-2 punch in the history of baseball with Blooy and TPJ at the top of the lineup. not to mention Teahen hitting 3rd
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally dude
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Punch"???
That’s more like a girly slap!
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson
by aHorseWithNoName on Mar 13, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's gotta be done.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice murse arod
That's why we play the season on paper.
by 306008 on Mar 13, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only thing missing
from this lineup is Gload batting cleanup
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs sign Esteban German
German and Gathright…together again.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seems like
they no longer need Milton Bradley. Maybe they’ll trade him for Teahen now?
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember Ryan
talking about how lucky the Royals were that they didn’t end up trading Leo Nunez for Milton Bradley.
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll listen to whichever game Ryan ISN'T doing
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Milton Bradley could solve that problem
Permanently.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First cuts today
According to the Star. Goodbye John Suomi, we hardly knew ye.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Little did we know
he was actually a Finnish hockey player…
The Snozberries taste like Snozberries
by labbadabba on Mar 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been saying over and over
We need to be drafting BASEBALL players.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I put this on another thread KC ranks 30th this decade
607-851 257 GB of the Yankees.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about after this year
when royals go 162-0
and yankees go 0-162
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Mar 13, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone else noticed that Tejeda has been used like a starting pitcher in spring training?
He’s getting a start today and he’s been pitching the innings load of a SP (3-inning outings instead of 1-inning outings like most relievers). Does anyone know why this is? Has there been any buzz in the KC sports media about the Royals seriously considering Tejeda for a rotation spot? I really like Tejeda but he’s one of these guys who is very well suited to be setup man (a potentially dominant setup man) but doesn’t have the control or pitch complement to be even a decent SP.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There has been no buzz
Over Tejeda at all. I hope they’re not considering moving him to the rotation, but I’m not going to read too much into pitcher usage in spring training. It may just be they want him to face regulars before they put the “B” team out there.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just find it odd that they appear to be stretching him out innings-wise as if he were a starter
If he continues to get 3-inning outings and then moves up to 4-inning outings, it’s going to look more and more like they are grooming him for a starting role. Perhaps they are just trying to mould him into a long reliever/swingman/spot starter. I still think he’s better suited for single inning setup man work.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tejeda has had more success as a starter than HoRam. I think he’s our best option for the rotation after Bannister and Hochevar.
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tejeda has had more success as a starter than HoRam.
I really don’t think the stats support this.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe no cumulatively
but Tejeda probably recieved a higher degree of success and has been successfull as a started more recently. Tejeda had one bad year as a starter in 2007. 5-9 6.61ERA. But that is not as bad as the last time Ramirez saw significant time as a starter. In 2007 HoRam made 20 starts, had a 7.16ERA, struck out 40 and walked 42 in 98 innings.
Tejeda had a very fine year starting in 2005 putting up an ERA of 2.87 while holdin batters to a line on .22/.328/.392. Tejeda 06 season wasn’t too bad either.
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They want Tejeda ready to step in.
GMDM likes Tejeda, this should be pretty obvious. Shit, I would put him in the rotation. Greinke, Meche, Davies, Tejeda? 4 right handers that can all bring it in the mid nineties? Yes please.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets just bring up Cortes to complete the rotation then :D
with Wood, Gutierrez, and Melville all ready to step in.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Mar 13, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good fastball isn't enough to make a good starting pitcher
If it were, we could just put Farnsworth in the rotation.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would I rather have, a guy that throws hard and can K people
Or a guy that throws garbage and can’t K anybody (ho-ram)? Hard thrower plz
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Farnsy it is, then
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was some discussion on this.
They are planning on Tejeda as the long reliever in the pen, thus the longer innings, but not as a starter.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats other than ERA and W-L record
Tejeda had one good year as a starter (2005, 4.16 FIP/4.23 tRA in 85.2 IP). Since then, Tejeda hasn’t had anything resembling sucess as a starter (2006, 5.25 FIP/5.53 tRA; 2007 6.19 FIP/5.68 tRA). He hasn’t had more recent success. He had a bit of rookie success and then fell off a cliff. HoRam has been a bit better than that, particularly in more recent seasons.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HoRam had a good rookie season and a good shortened sophmore season. He has been mediocre since and was terrible in 2007. Tejeda not only had a better ERA ifrom 2005 to 2007 as a starter, but he had a much better stikeout to walk ratio and held runners to lower BA, OBP, and SLUG%. Not to mention he had a much better 2008 season including a start where he look very sharp.
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ERA isn't a particularly telling stat
It is often a very misleading stat. FIP and tRA give you a better picture. And with regard to 2008, both Tejeda and HoRam did very well:
Tejeda 3.95/3.52 (FIP/tRA)
HoRam 3.67/3.78 (FIP/tRA)
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ERA
ERA is not perfect, but you can’t completely ignore it either. I think it is a stat that holds more relevance when it comes to starting pitching as well due to the larger sample size. The ultimate goal for a pitcher is to not give up runs. Looking at that stat alone, a good starting pitcher is not going to put up an ERA of 7. I also don’t think you can ignore opponents BA as well.
Tejeda held hitters to a .171 BA last year, including a ridiculous .115 for RHB. Opponents hit .294 again HoRam last year and have hit .282 against him for his career compared to .254 for Tejeda.
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or they're worried
about Banny and HoRam.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying that they are using him this way in a reaction to 8 and 12 IP from Banny and HoRam?
Do you think they’d overreact to that kind of tiny sample of ST stats? Regardless, they’ve been using Tejeda like this from the start of ST, so it doesn’t look like it is in reaction to anything.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
They would have legitimate reason to worry about Banny even before ST. Just going off last year.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Mar 13, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a legitimate reason to worry about every SP candidate outside of Greinke and Meche
I just find it odd that Tejeda might be in the mix when nothing I’ve read has even hinted at the Royals considering using him that way in 2009.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Top Secret.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've heard
they are thinking about using him in long relief
by 9il on Mar 13, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Xaq will have to be perfect to win with that top of the order
yikes
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Mar 13, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hahahahahahaha
That is the funniest lineup I have seen in quite some time!!!!
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Mar 13, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
audio for the Maryvale game is up and running
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Public address announcer in Maryvale
just announced a lineup without a DH. Greinke’s batting 9th.
That’s what Gameday has too, FWIW.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Awesome...
spring is almost here, hope "springs’ eternal.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Mar 13, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck throws a runner out
!!!
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Mar 13, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
On another note,
I am an admitted sports junkie, and listen to sports radio 810 almost every day. However, I have to say, the ONLY reason I listen to Keitzman is because the alternative is so unbelievably bad. Not that anybody cares, but goddamn the afternoon sports talk in KC is tired. Can Soren do an 8-hour show?
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Mar 13, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kietz
is the whole reason I move out of KC…
not really but its as good a reason as any.
The Snozberries taste like Snozberries
by labbadabba on Mar 13, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Keitz
Not the stuff he says, but the alternative opinion he has on everything. It’s refreshing and reinforces my ideas. He also hits the nail on the head quite a few times….
more than you guys want to give him credit for.
That's why we play the season on paper.
by 306008 on Mar 13, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prince Fielder hits a 1 out 3 run homer off Greinke in the 1st
3-0 Brewers
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Battle of guys
Drafted back to back. Royals almost took Fielder.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did they really?
i don’t remember it.
although i really don’t seem to remember that draft at all for some reason. i kinda remember the ’01 draft, because my dad told me we took some kid that could throw 102 MPH. haha.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Mar 13, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tejeda not too sharp
More walks, 2 so far in 1 2/3
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but works out of it, as usual
3 K’s in 2 innings
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
4-0 now
Zack just gave up another BOMB apparently
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Working On Gopherball
Very successfully.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patience, Grasshopper.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's over
Time to look forward to 2010 now.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GLOAD BOMB
!!!!!!!!!!
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Mar 13, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OMFGload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111111
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Want The
Cactus League Trophy!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, royalsreview.com shout out
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who did the shouting?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve read some email from some dude that posts here
And he said royalsreview.com like 3 times
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
steve says he’s reading yesterday’s e-mails
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it Joel?
Following the Gload homer?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 13, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"It Was A
Rope!"
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday's Email From
RR! Was that grudz96?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cmkeller Is Now
Nationwide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The takeover begins
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A-Meal Had His
Chance; he blew it.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love these webcasts
It’s so homey
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A Screenside Chat
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Callaspo And Butler
Defensive demons.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hit And Run
Magic.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The game with Milwaukee...
is craptacular. Glad I can’t actually watch this one. We have 1 hit in 3 innings (thanks D-Rob!). Of our 9 outs, 5 have been Ks (2 by the Spork).
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson
by aHorseWithNoName on Mar 13, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sporqie Can't K
Often enough.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Butler On 1B
Has the pitcher rattled.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tejeda Being Stretched
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so far i think
3+ IP, 4hits, 3 walks, 4k’s, 1ER
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's currently pitching his fourth inning?
If they are pushing him up to four innings in mid-March, that doesn’t sound like they are stretching him out for long relief.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is kind of mystifying.
He has no options, so Omaha rotation isn’t an option. Is somebody getting traded? The mystery of it all. My current guess is Bannister ends up in the minors, Hochever and Ho-ram both make the rotation with Tejeda lurking in the bullpen ready to take over as soon as one of them stumbles.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they've decided on a 5th SP
Apparently they want several options to decide from. I bet Hochevar starts the season in Omaha.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he does, I think bannister is going to be on a really short leash
After the ass whooping he took last season….
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
But of course he pitched like a #3 SP in 2007, so I think they want to give him a good look to see what the real Bannister is. 2009 is the year they need to probably make a final decision on him, given the salary increase he’d get next year.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Hochevar than Banny
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad But True
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
But of course another month in the minors would likely add an additional year of team control over Hochevar.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like they did with Gordon
:)
no really, I see your point
what’s the deal with Hochevar’s contract? he’s still subject to the FA clock, but isn’t he already being paid much more than the min
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he is getting paid more than the minimum
But that doesn’t mean that having as many years of his service at below market rate as possible isn’t a good and very valuable thing.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Right now, that’s the only reason to send Hochevar to O and keep Banny in KC. Hochevar is doing much better than Banny. Although I know you think nothing in ST means anything. But, nevertheless, Hochevar is showing improvement from last year and Banny is showing last year was true.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good grief
So ST stats show a player’s true talent? Or does it only do so when his ST stats ratify your preconceived opinions about the player?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I think it’s odd that ST is partly for evaluation of players and partly for players to learn, try new pitches, new habits, etc and you rightly point out that ST stats don’t really mean anything. I can go with that. However, for Banny you point out that his ST performance means nothing, because it’s ST and small sample size and whatnot.
So, someone will point out that Banny also sucked most of a whole season of 08. You will say, too small sample size. But, then you will point to 07, a single season, as proof he can do it.
Well, I agree with you to a point that he has performed (look at 07) and deserves a chance. But, you also have to recognize he had a chance again in 08 and sucked. This year in ST, for whatever it’s worth, is mostly a continuation of 08. So, why shouldn’t he go to Omaha and try to work out whatever his deal is?
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 13, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, someone will point out that Banny also sucked most of a whole season of 08. You will say, too small sample size. But, then you will point to 07, a single season, as proof he can do it.
I’m not saying that because he pitched like a pretty good #3 SP in 2007 then that is what he’ll do going forward. I think 2007 and 2008 are both important data points. I’m not going to pick one or the other and say that was the real deal and the other was just a mirage. I think what we’ll see from Bannister going forward is something in between 2007 and 2008, but of course that covers a lot of ground.
Well, I agree with you to a point that he has performed (look at 07) and deserves a chance. But, you also have to recognize he had a chance again in 08 and sucked.
Agreed. I don’t think I’ve ever denied that. That data point counts just as much as his 2007 performance.
This year in ST, for whatever it’s worth, is mostly a continuation of 08. So, why shouldn’t he go to Omaha and try to work out whatever his deal is?
This is where things start to not make sense. First, you jump to the conclusion that his 2009 ST performance is a “continuation of 08.” You get to this conclusion after seeing the results of 8 ST innings? ST stats mean nothing. We don’t know if he’s continuing 2008 or not. Bad ST stats can be the product of many things which have nothing to do with talent or how the player will perform in the regular season. I won’t rehash all of the reasons, but they are out there for your perusal. Second, I don’t think that Bannister, McClure or anyone thinks that there’s a little mechanical thing or something else that he could work on in Omaha to “fix” him. So sending him to Omaha isn’t going to help. How is he going to work on getting out major league hitters by facing AAA hitters? He isn’t. He needs starts in the majors. If the “true Bannister” is a shitty pitcher, then he’ll show that and the issue will be put to rest.
The real problem here is that you are using ST stats to show that a player is still struggling. Reaching any conclusion based on ST stats is a big mistake.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 14, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Well, there’s still a lot of ST left to go, so I guess we’ll see. Ooops, I guess we won’t, since none of it matters.
Anyway, so what would be your game plan? My reading of what you are saying is to ignore all of ST no matter what he does and put him in the rotation no questions asked. Once the season begins and he is in the 5 spot, what do you see as legitimate measures of his performance? How long do we keep him going if he’s no good? Hell, what measure do you use to decide if he’s no good? I think we’ll know it by seeing it but you don’t believe in that either, which is fine. But, what pushes you over that edge to bench him, bullpen him, send him down, release him? I’m not baiting, it’s a real question because I wonder your thoughts there.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 14, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there’s still a lot of ST left to go, so I guess we’ll see. Ooops, I guess we won’t, since none of it matters.
There you go. If a pitcher’s velocity is down by the end of ST, or if his breaking all isn’t breaking, or if his mechanics are off or if he’s injured or something like that, then we’re talking about something ST that matters. His stats, however, aren’t meaningful.
Anyway, so what would be your game plan? My reading of what you are saying is to ignore all of ST no matter what he does and put him in the rotation no questions asked.
As I said in both of my articles on ST stats, the tools that a player shows in ST are important. If it looks like there’s something wrong, then deal with that, and that might include sending him to Omaha. But if he has the same kind of stuff, control, mechanics, etc. as 2007 and 2008, then yes he goes into the MLB rotation (Greinke, Meche, Hochevar, Bannister, and Davies).
Once the season begins and he is in the 5 spot, what do you see as legitimate measures of his performance? How long do we keep him going if he’s no good? Hell, what measure do you use to decide if he’s no good?
I’d probably give him at least until the ASB. If he’s a complete failure, then move him to the bullpen or Omaha. And I think stats like FIP and tRA (among others) are good measures of performance in the regular season.
But, what pushes you over that edge to bench him, bullpen him, send him down, release him? I’m not baiting, it’s a real question because I wonder your thoughts there.
I can’t give you a magic number. Certainly if his stats are in the #4 SP range, then I’m happy to have him as valuable innings eater. My ASB deadline has a lot to do with the fact that the Royals are very unlikely to contend this year. If this were a contending year, then my leash for Bannister would be much shorter. But if we’re not contending, then by all means use the season, in part, to determine once and for all how good Bannister is. Figure it out this year so you can either keep him or non-tender him (he’ll be due a nice raise in his second arb. year). It’s not like his presence in the rotation is blocking a good SP prospect (HoRam? Duckworth? Tejeda?). I wish the Royals considered Carlos Rosa a future MLB starter, but all signs say that they do not.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 14, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I know it's only ST
but if Hochevar really is showing his stuff, control, etc is clearly better than Banny, do you send him down simply as an economic decision to extend his control period even though it’s theoretically to the detriment of the team? I guess, as you believe and likely so, we won’t contend anyway, then long term that is better.
Although, we’ve been thinking it’s Banny vs Hochevar. I think it’s actually HoRam vs Banny. I think Hochevar’s going to make #4. Then what do we do? I’d hate to send him down for economics only even though I understand the logic.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 14, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but if Hochevar really is showing his stuff, control, etc is clearly better than Banny, do you send him down simply as an economic decision to extend his control period even though it’s theoretically to the detriment of the team?
As I said above, if it were up to me, I’d start the season with a rotation of Greinke, Meche, Hochevar, Bannister and Davies. For me, the issue isn’t Hochevar vs. Bannister at all. It’s Hochevar, Bannister and Davies vs. HoRam, Duckworth, etc. I think the former group is better for the present and future than the latter group. I just think the team control issue is a nice silver lining if Hochevar gets sent down (and it is possible that he was in the minors for long enough last year that the Royals already have that extra year, but it is really hard to say).
Although, we’ve been thinking it’s Banny vs Hochevar. I think it’s actually HoRam vs Banny. I think Hochevar’s going to make #4. Then what do we do? I’d hate to send him down for economics only even though I understand the logic.
Well, I know what I’d do and that is keep HoRam as far from the rotation as possible. He wouldn’t even be my sixth starter if one of the top 5 went on the DL. But if forced to put HoRam in the rotation, I’d be torn between two possible choices. The first choice would be to have Hochevar start the season in Omaha. The second would be to have Davies start the season in the bullpen (where I think he’d make an excellent late inning reliever). In either case, I would think that it wouldn’t take more than a month for HoRam to fail as a starter, at which point the exiled pitcher gets put back into the rotation and HoRam goes to the bullpen.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 14, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa!
I know it’s only September and ST, but I’m liking what Davies is doing. Let’s keep him in the rotation!
I agree on HoRam. Even without even thinking about him in particular, I just hate the idea that we would put in a lefty “just because we have to have one” rather than picking your best 5 starters regardless of hand.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 14, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davies
I like him too but I still think he’s a big question mark. Before September he wasn’t pitching very well. The ERA was good, but it was about as empty as a good ERA can get; his peripherals were genuinely shitty. Then he put it all together in September (or at least for three starts in September). Was that the “real” Davies? Will we be seeing more of that? I sure hope so, but I wouldn’t bet on it. My guess is that he’s a pretty good #4 SP going forward, but he could be better than that…or much worse. He’s got a long track record of failure. At his age that does not mean that he’ll necessarily experience more failure, but I think it is too soon to say that he’s turned the corner and now he’s going to realize his potential.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 14, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was a grounder going through Cutbert Teahen’s fingers, not an arrow
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's A Stretch
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops. I thought this was about Teahen being stretched at 2B.
But that’s another stretch.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talkin' Hockey!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tejeda's final line.....
4IP, 4 hits, 3BB, 7K, 1ER
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he struck out 3 in the 4th. 3 in a row looking, after the walk and double to start the inning.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to see Tejeda having to go through a lineup for a third time, much less a fourth
He has no business starting.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A third time?
That would be an improvement over Bannister
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Banni
can barely get thru 1 time currently so asking for more than two might be a bit much
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess his 2008 performance is all that matters.
Let’s throw in ST stats too I guess.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
He has a plus plus fastball, very good change up, average slider, and can throw from multiple arm angles. I’d rather see him starting than Bannister…. at least he has the tools to succeed.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Like Swing
Out Sister better.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he doesn't
He has one plus pitch, the fastball. If one’s evaluation of his slider and change include his control over those pitches, neither is an average pitch. He doesn’t have the pitches and control to be a decent starter, and that’s why he’s been a complete failure as a starter since his rookie season.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, so you didn't watch him pitch at all last season?
Please. Since coming over to the Royals he was much, much improved and is one of the most talented pitchers on the staff. He has just as much business starting as Horacio Ramirez or Brian Bannister. How quick we are to forget that up until September of last year Kyle Davies was awful, and now he’s penciled in as the number 3. If he can get it together, so can Robinson Tejeda….
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what was different for Tejeda last year?
He worked out of the bullpen and thus didn’t have to go through the lineup twice, much less three of four times. He’s very good in that role. As a starter, he’s an absolute catastrophe.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was an absolutely catastrophe pitching in Texas
Where just about everybody has been an absolutely catastrophe in terms of pitching, not to mention he was only 25 in his worst season, this isn’t Brett Tomko. In ’08 his AAA numbers were phenomenal as well, so I guess I would like to be mildly optimistic and assume that with superior coaching from the Royals, and maturation maybe he has figured something out that has allowed him to be a more effective pitcher.
I would take robinson tejeda over Brian Bannister as my fifth starter at this point, I don’t think Bannister has good enough stuff / control to make it in the big leagues.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Mar 13, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are gonna bite on
him for having a lack of control you need to consider Banni’s lack of plus anything. Banni’s combo of average control and average pitches might not be a much better option. Tejeda has played in launching pads so that needs to be taken into consideration.
If they choose Banni over Hoch I will be disappointed.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Banny's mediocre stuff certainly counts
But I like his combination of control and making the right pitches at the right time. And I like his better track record as a starting pitcher (better than Tejeda, who I think has proven that he isn’t a MLB starting pitcher).
If Hochevar isn’t in the MLB rotation, I’ll be very disappointed. But Banny over Tejeda and HoRam? Definitely.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 13, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You bring up Rookie luck for Tejeda but won’t apply it to Bannister.
I think Bannister should be given a shot to start more that Tejeda and especially Ramirez. But I don’t think Tejeda should be out of the conversation if Ramirez or Bannister stink it up or if some gets injured.
by SK on Mar 13, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The plan is to use Tejeda as the long reliver/spot starter.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im just gonna throw in
ive always been a big fan of tejeda’s potential.
I wouldn’t mind giving him one shot at the back end of a rotation.
by wildthang on Mar 13, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Ryan Reading
This thread?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am nervously awaiting the fate of Soumi
my new favorite royal
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Warner Madrigal; Novelist
Or Renaissance Fair background noise?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
isn't it weird that Ren Fairs are actually medieval in theme?
never got that
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Never Thought
Of that, and I may never again, unless the Free Credit Report guys remind me.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stewart, don't ask him that!!!
Too late. 10 minutes on TPJ now.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mellinger wrote yesterday that TPJ is gone
its ok now
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who's talkin on that broadcast?
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Stewart, as usual on the webcasts. But Ryan has been around for the last inning or so.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stewart says they’ll have Steve Busby in the booth soon.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Update on the Brewers game?
please
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Mar 13, 2009 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They're Cleaning The
Vats now; very important.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gameday says they’re Hamulacking, down 5-0 in the bottom of the 4th
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jenniger love hewitt is dating again
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What About Her
Breasts?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did anyone have a higher peak of hotness than love hewitt back in her prime?
she was like Arod with the Mariners
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She Went South
Faster; not much of a plateau.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like consistent hotness
like Salma Hayek over the 20’s peak like Hewitt
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i get her confused with penelope cruz
by royalsreview on Mar 13, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't Confuse Either
With Tom Cruise.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blasphemor
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nickname For Covelli
DeMilo; no arm.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did Greinke get to hit in the other game?
If so that is probably why he chose to play that game.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yes, he did 0-1 strikeout
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was a clause
in his extension. That he be allowed to hit at least once in ST.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Mar 13, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jacobs HBP on base monster.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Buck Oppo Power!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meanwhile, in Maryvale
Farnsworth gives up a double to his first batter, Prince Fielder.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hitters Are Better
With RISP; really.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
appearently Bloomy got a rbi then got picked off?
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers announcers are not very good either.
They just said a player got picked off of first on a ground ball to first?
huh?
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In the top of the 5th? Yes, that’s what Gameday says.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, that was supposed to be a reply to your prior message.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
George Brett is managing one hell of a game
BrettNOW
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Mar 13, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pimentel leaves the game in Surprise
mid-inning, presumably with some kind of injury. Lowery on to relieve.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Or is it Gorge Brett being cagey?
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pimentel playing possum?
Don’t think so. From what Stewart said, he really seemed hurt. Could be the James Brown gambit, however.
by 2X2L on Mar 13, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Professor with two scorless innings, era back down to 9.00
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brewers game going into the ninth, Royals need 4 to tie.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Royals lose 5-1 vs the Brewers
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Mar 13, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Schizo
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 13, 2009 7:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Baylor beats Texas
amazing
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Mar 13, 2009 10:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Detail
Like most folks, I’ve always thought that “Half, you go this way — half, you go that way,” was probably one of the biggest command blunders since Thermopylae, having thrown the Witch’s superior force of Winkies into a state of ineffective confusion. As we all know, it surely didn’t work out very well for the Wicked Witch, no matter what we think of the deployment of her forces. Reinforcing the common view, even though Winkiology has not yet progressed to the point at which we can interpret their facial expressions with certainty, those guys do appear to be rather perplexed.
But recent research has uncovered the interesting detail that Half was a common Winkie name. Some of the Wonderful Historians of Oz are now surmising that the Wicked Witch employed two Winkies who were both named Half, possibly the guy on the left and the guy on the right, who were both commanders of Winkie squads. In that circumstance her command, as well as the way she issued it, facing one first and then spinning around to face the other, makes perfect sense, and I think we would have to attribute her downfall to fortune — and an accidental bucket of water — and not to any failure of command.
The results of further studies of this important event, one of the signal skirmishes in the struggle for Oz, will be faithfully reported here.
by 2X2L on Mar 14, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fumbled it. Needed to be “Heretical Historians of Oz”.
This site needs an edit button.
by 2X2L on Mar 14, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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