Royals Say Farewell to Jimmy Gobble
I can't help but feel a little sad about this one. The Royals parted ways with Billy James Gobble (really) today, ending a ten year relationship with one of the more identifiable players of the last decade. I can remember, long, long, ago, when Royals fans talked about a troika of pitching prospects who were going to bring the Royals back: Gobble, Griffin, and Greinke.
He was also cut in the classic mold of the below average performer that fans irrationally love. The man's name was Gobble, after all. Moreover, despite being (amazingly) sorta a first-round pick in the 1999 draft (really a late supplemental draft guy, 43rd overall), he was, almost from the beginning, a player who was clearly occupying the wild frontier zone of adequacy, a guy living on the margins between a Major League dream and a lot of time spent in Nebraska. Apologies to those who don't consider those two to be the same thing. To the point, Gobble may have crossed over into the AAA zone last season, as he imploded for an ugly 8.81 ERA. Then again, Gobble had reached this brink before, sometime during the 2005 season, and fought his way back.
Gobble was also the last living relic of the magical 2003 Royals, a team that somehow started 16-3, eventually crested to a 57-46, and led the American League Central for 92 days, finally surrendering the lead in late August. (Well, there is DDJ, although he only made seven at bats for those Royals.) Basically it was an ok team in a bad division, but that's like saying Bigfoot is just a hairy ape. What the Royals did was more or less without rational explanation. The 2003 team was the last installment of a minor wave of good offenses enjoyed by the Royals around the turn of the century, coupled with a pitching staff that barely, briefly, chinned itself up to ok. Gobble was a part of that staff, making nine starts, beginning in August, as the Royals were fighting for their lives. Gobble, only 21 at the time, did well. Especially so, given the circumstances. Gobble led the Royals to a 2-0 victory in his first career start, an August 3rd tilt against the Devil Rays. Gobble posted a 4.61 ERA in his nine starts, and the Royals went 4-5 in them, not terribly bad, considering how young Gobble was, and how much the team was barely holding on for the season's final month.
In 2004 Gobble remained a starter, making 24 starts for one of the worst Royals teams ever, en route to a disapointing 5.35 ERA. Gobble also earned a smattering of attention for posting an insanely low K-rate of 2.98 K/9 that season. Like, in over a hundred years of baseball only a handful of people have been in this territory low. Gobble was the 1941 Ted Williams of guys with nonexistent strikeout numbers. By comparison, the lowest K-rate Brian Bannister has ever posted is a 4.20 K/9. That Gobble somehow survived 148 innings essentially unable to miss bats is a borderline amazing. And by survive, I don't just mean having a sub-six ERA, I mean literally not being killed by the line drives flying around him. A 5.35 ERA wasn't even that bad in the 2004 American League, good for an ERA + of 89.
This was also the season that I became a Jimmy Gobble fan.
It had nothing to do with Gobble, but in 2004 I started blogging. Small is the company of people who so thoroughly planned the beginning of their blog as I did, as a spent a good year thinking about it, imagining it, thinking about a name, etc. When the Royals had their fun little 2003, it seemed like it was finally time to take the plunge. When the Royals 2004 campaign quickly collapsed (and it was quick) Gobble was the only hero of 2003 who showed up. Yea, his end of the year numbers where bad, but he somehow posted a 2.82 ERA in 22 April innings. In my mind, he stopped like three losing streaks on his own. He was holding down the fort until the team righted the ship... Anyway, that never happened, but because Gobble's career month happened right when I started writing about the Royals everyday (which really, five years later seems like an insane thing to be doing) I became a lifetime Jimmy Gobble Guy.
Rightly or wrongly -- ok, it was probably with at least 90% certainty the right decision, although I got into a little debate a few months ago on this subject -- the Royals made Gobble a reliever from 2004 onwards. Because, you know, the team had so much rotation depth. At least for Gobble however, it seemed like an ok move, as his K-rate improved from this is so bad you will be out of baseball in two years to actually not bad. Still, 2005 & 2006 were basically lost seasons for Gobble. Because this was the Royals he a) still had a job and b) could still get lots of Major League burn, but he was only treading water as a reliever.
Then, in 2007, Gobble randomly -- let's be honest I suppose -- turned in 53.7 good innings and posted a career-low ERA of 3.02. The weird thing was, his peripherals indicated that he was essentially the same guy he'd been in 2006, as his 2006 FIP was actually lower.
Still, we we're in this new strange Dayton Moore reality in which the Royals actually had good bullpens, and I had every reason to think that Gobble could provide low-leverage bullpen work reasonably well. That didn't happen. All of Gobble's good 2007 fortune turned sour in 2008. Everything reached a head in a late June game in which Hillman left in Gobble to allow something like five hundred runs. (This also ended up being the Tony Pena pitching game.) For different reasons, or maybe they were the same, that game ended up encapsulating everything that went wrong last season, prior to the late summer Aviles's messiansim. Judging by the comments that poured in that night and the next day on the site, quite a lot of people shared my, well, almost outrage at what Hillman had done to Gobble. It was a rare instance of me discussing a supposed ethical breach non-ironically. Shortly thereafter, Gobble hit the DL with a well-timed injury.
Gobble by the numbers:
| IP | K/9 | HR/9 | ERA | ERA+ | FIP | |
| 2003 | 52.7 | 5.50 | 1.37 | 4.61 | 106 | 4.91 |
| 2004 | 148.0 | 2.98 | 1.46 | 5.35 | 89 | 5.43 |
| 2005 | 53.7 | 6.37 | 1.51 | 5.70 | 77 | 5.52 |
| 2006 | 84.0 | 8.57 | 1.29 | 5.14 | 91 | 4.17 |
| 2007 | 53.7 | 8.39 | 1.01 | 3.02 | 156 | 4.23 |
| 2008 | 31.7 | 7.67 | 1.42 | 8.81 | 48 | 5.85 |
Gobble's final two step with the Royals (somewhat unexpected signing, unexpected release) is in line with the entire arch of his career. If there is a point to all this, it is simply that, for a lot of us, Gobble isn't just a guy who had an ERA over 8.00 last season, he was someone we'd gotten to know, at least as a player. He was, along with DeJesus, the last vestige of the 2003 Royals, our one good team this decade. Not only were most of these players not with the Royals by 2006 even, a huge number of them have long been out of baseball. Gobble, who was hardly better, managed to hang around. As shocking as this might sound, he was one of the defining players of this decade. Not the best, not even on the All-Star team, but someone who, when we think back on the '00s, is most certainly going to be in the picture.
He will be for me anyway.
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93 comments
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Comments
I had a feeling you were working on this tonight
Nice job Will, a nice way to remember the Gobbler and his relatively long tenure with the Royals. I never fell in love with the guy, but did have much respect for him as a person, though I never met him. I wish him the best and I hope he finds a team that can use him and maybe even see him have some success.
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Mar 19, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I beat
he winds up in Texas as their loogy.
by gordonrules on Mar 19, 2009 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My Jimmy story
Back in June, I believe it was, a game against the Rangers, where Jimmy blew a 5 run lead for the second night in a row, after he got pulled mid-inning, he walked back to the dugout, and I’m sad to say now, that I royally ripped into him. I probably shoulda been thrown out of the stadium, to be honest. As he’s walking, he hears me (since there were like 13 fans there by this point), and looks directly at me. And, I swear, he nodded his head at me, as if he was agreeing with what I was saying.
So, that was in June. Come September 20th, I believe, without looking, it was “Shirts Off Their Backs Night”. I was determined to get one. So, I dropped $20 on 20 of those scrathers tickets that they were selling, in attempt to win. No luck. 20 more bucks. Nothing. So, in the end, I dropped $100, and I finally got a winner. So, the game ends, we come out of the dugout and onto the field, and line up on the first base line. Tim, the Crown Vision guy goes down the line, and we all draw envelopes with player names in them. Who would you know that I get? Jimmy Gobble, of course. I laugh to myself. I had just spent $100 on an autographed, game used (non-playing game for Jimmy) Jimmy Gobble jersey!! I was more in shock than I was angry. So, Jimmy comes running out of the dugout to give me the jersey and sign it. He comes out, and looks at me. Then, he gives me a funny look. He recognized me from that night. He comes up to me, jersey in hand, grabs the Sharpie from me and signs it. Then, he mutters, “Lay off me now, kid,” with a half smirk, half serious look.
So, in the end, I guess that it was totally fitting to end my 2008 season that way. I mean, I had been to 28 games that year, a personal high for me, sat through many-a Jimmy Gobble multiple run innings, yelled and ridiculed the man far beyond, anything he deserved, and I had loved every minute of it; even if it was Jimmy Gobble, and even if it was the Royals, and they were both God awful. I planned on wearing that jersey to a couple games this year, and trying to get an opportunity to extend an apology to Jimmy. But, I guess I won’t get that chance now. Hopefully he signs on somewhere in the AL, and he will roll through town. I know I would cheer for the guy. If for no other reason that “somebody’s gotta do it.” Thanks for six fun-filled seasons, Jimmy!
"I log on to RCT after school, and I see the 228 comments on this thread. I actually immediately panicked, because knowing KC, I figured some other fan from another school (most likely Mizzou) came over and said something stupid. Then, KC freaked out at him, and said something stupid (no offense, KC, but this really wouldn’t be that extraordinary for you to pull off) and then there was mass hysteria. I would have to ban people, and warn people, and it’d be mass chaos." - SlowDance
Odds-on favorite to win the "1st Annual Rock Chalk Talk Tournament Pick 'Em Contest" :D
by KCsince88 on Mar 19, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Easy to forget
These guys are humans with feelings, not just names on a spreadsheet in my mom’s basement.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 19, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why I rarely, if ever, boo any player
The only thing that deserves booing, IMHO, is a blatant lack of effort. Even then, as was the case with Guillen last year, we may not even now the full extent of why somebody may SEEM to be putting forth less than full effort, so I even hesitate then.
Just my two cents…
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Mar 19, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, and Guillen may try to attack you
by Top Ramen on Mar 19, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
There IS a self-preservation element to your fan reactions when Mr. Guillen is involved. Now that Joey is gone, I’m not sure who the Designated Holder-Backer will be for this season.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 19, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I go on vacation for a few days and this h appens?
great story
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Mar 19, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back when AOL still had a thriving Royals community
and Gobble was working his way up through the minors, he actually had a PR guy sending out periodic email updates on Jimmy’s progress. I want to say it was a guy he went to high school with, or at least someone from his home area which I think was in Virginia. The updates got progressively more exciting as he put up good numbers and turned into a legitimate prospect. I felt a really awesome connection with Jimmy, like I had been there since the beginning. I remember following his first start on the sportsline gameday thing and having one of those giddy experiences that seemed to happen so often that summer. Good luck out there man.
by SSmanque on Mar 19, 2009 1:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
managed to find a random one online
> Jimmy Gobble Press Release # 49
>
> Jimmy Gobble continued his dominance of the Lynchburg (Va.) Hillcats on
> Tuesday, July 17 tossing a one-hitter over seven innings to lead the
> Wilmington (Del.) Blue Rocks to a 5-1 Carolina League victory over the
> Hillcats at Daniel S. Frawley Stadium in Wilmington.
> Gobble, who is 3-0 against Lynchburg this season, struck out six batters
> and did not issue a walk. The only run Lynchburg managed off Gobble was an
> unearned run in the first inning.
> The only hit managed off Gobble was a single by shortstop Jose Castillo to
> leadoff the game. Castillo would advance to third on an error by Blue Rocks
> first baseman Donnie Ross and would score on a sacrifice fly by third
> baseman Jay Langston. The Hillcats would not come close to touching Gobble
> after that, as Gobble retired the final 21 batters he faced.
> Tuesday’s result was a total contrast of Gobble’s outing on July 12 as he
> dropped a decision to the Potomac Cannons, 6-0 at Frawley Stadium.
> Gobble went 5.2 innings, allowing six runs on seven hits. He struck out
> five and issued just one walk. He allowed a pair of three-run home runs to
> Brian Fatur and Ramon Carvajal. However, he bounced back with his
> impressive win on Thursday.
> Gobble is now 7-4 with 2.71 ERA on the season.
>
> Tim Hayes
> Public Relations Director for Billy James “Jimmy” Gobble (KC Royals)
>
> Gobble Notes: Gobble’s career record now stands at 19-14 … Gobble will
> get a chance to face Lynchburg again on Sunday, July 22, when he is slated
> to take the mound in Lynchburg … Jason Gilfillan recorded the save in
> Gobble’s win over the Hillcats on Tuesday, July 17. Gilfillan has nine
> saves on the season for the Rocks … Norris Hopper led the Blue Rocks at
> the plate in Tuesday’s win, going 2-for-4 and scoring two runs … Through
> Tuesday July 17, Gobble was third in the Carolina League in strikeouts with
> 108 and sixth in ERA … Also through Tuesday, Gobble was tied for the lead
> in wins on the Blue Rocks pitching staff . He is tied with teammates Matt
> Burch and Ian Ferguson with seven wins each. He is also the Blue Rocks
> leader in innings pitched and strikeouts … Gobble has issued just 21
> walks in 113 innings … I was in Wilmington from July 10-17 to see Gobble
> and the Rocks in action during a week-long homestand. Gobble and the Rocks
> were 4-3 during my stint in Delaware. They are 5-5-1 in games that I have
> seen them play this year, including a 3-3 tie with the Kansas City Royals
> on April 1 … Gobble celebrates his 20th birthday on Thursday, July 19 …
> Gobble is 2-1 with one no decision in the month of July … As part of a
> charity event for the Children’s Miracle Network, Gobble’s autographed Blue
> Rocks jersey recently sold for $203.49 on E-Bay … If you have any
> questions, concerns or comments please feel free to e-mail me at
> JGobblePR@aol.com. Also, if you would like to be removed from the list or
> know someone who would like to be added, please let me know. I look forward
> to hearing your feedback.
by SSmanque on Mar 19, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should.
See if he still works for Gobble, but even if he doesn’t, he’d provide a nice source for Gobble’s Royals years (minors and majors). Of course, the email will probably bounce since I’m not sure many people use AOL anymore.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Mar 20, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Hayes writes up Gobble's release
up-to-date email linked in the article
by SSmanque on Mar 20, 2009 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was perhaps almost traded to the Rangers
Back in late July 2003, the Royals were in first place and looking for a bat to help get them into the playoffs. The Rangers were shopping a rental of Juan Gonzalez, who had been hitting well that year. The rumor was that the two teams were discussing a Gobble-for-Gonzalez trade. But the trade never went down because Gonzo was injured at the deadline.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 19, 2009 1:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well
it all worked out because Gonzo then signed with the royals in 04
and got hurt again
by royalsreview on Mar 19, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Gonzalez? Hurt?
Shocking!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 19, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yea
Gobble for Mench was the trade rumor that wouldn’t die.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 19, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
allard was awesome like that
didn’t it become affeldt for mench?
by royalsreview on Mar 19, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Added Bat
The added bat turned out to be Rondell White
by JarrodPattersonFan on Mar 19, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw
did anyone else have no idea that Gobble was actually a high draft pick?
by royalsreview on Mar 19, 2009 1:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All I remembered was that he was a fairly highly regarded prospect
Not a high ceiling prospect (at least by the time he got to the high minors), but one of those prospects who is supposed to have a high likelihood of being a roughly league average starter. It’s unfortunate that this didn’t come to pass.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 19, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jimmy gobble was the next tom glavine
after chris george failed at it
by marbotty on Mar 19, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Glavine?
Wow…and here I had been hoping that he’d turn into the next Charlie Leibrandt! I think many of us would have been very happy with that.
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson
by aHorseWithNoName on Mar 19, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh my goodness
Chris George…there’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.
by Sean O Se on Mar 19, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taken a few picks ahead of Brian Roberts
Carl Crawford too.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 19, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my favorite memory involving jimmy gobble
was listening to tony pena pronounce his name yimmy yobble
remaining positive at all costs
by LimaTime10 on Mar 19, 2009 3:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great post, I read every word. I’m kind of ambivalent, I think Jimmy is in the majors for another team this year and performs well if he’s used as a loogy. However the fact that we could release him shows that our depth is such that we don’t really need to keep him around, we have better options now. That makes me happy.
by sfeldkamp on Mar 19, 2009 7:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For a long time
I could not separate Jimmy Gobble and Chris George in my mind. What a great combo they were supposed to be for us.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 19, 2009 8:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the offense was rolling along
The team was just waiting for the pitching of Grienke, Gobble, and George to arrive to take the team to the playoffs
by Top Ramen on Mar 19, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Griffin or Girffith
or whatever Colt was
I could keep george seperate because he was a different pitcher from gobble… didn’t he have a10 K game once?
by royalsreview on Mar 19, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may not be that we have better options, but rather
the new regime’s style prefers to not carry a LOOGY, and rather carry a pitcher with smaller platoon splits. I certainly think we have at least equal options – but I also think Gobble is good enough to make a major leauge roster for a team that believes in having a LOOGY or two on its staff.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Mar 19, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2003 - Nosotros Creamos (that's the past tense, if you're confused)
Clicking on that link and seeing the roster again, I CAN’T BELIEVE that we were in contention that year. Of the first five names on the list (Mayne, Harvey, Relaford, Randa, Berroa) only Randa had a noticeably good career. I really thought Miguel Ascensio would make it, though, despite his first-ever appearance.
by BrRoyal on Mar 19, 2009 8:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That pitching staff
Was truly awful. 13 different pitchers made at least four starts for us that year. Only D.A.R.Y.L. and Brian Anderson posted ERAs lower than 4.00 (Affeldt had a 4.39 ERA as a starter). Only Curt Leskanic, Alan Levine and Affeldt posted ERAs lower than 4.00 out of the pen. Chris George posted a 7.11 ERA in 93 IP – and had a winning record of 9-6 (he could have won ten, but left a game we would win after 4 2/3 innings with the lead because he was getting shelled). Albie Lopez was left to post a 12.71 ERA in 22 IP. We gave up 867 runs – a staggering amount. Just a weird, weird season.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 19, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Affeldt wasn't in the pen that year
He was in the rotation. He wasn’t moved to the pen until 2004.
Runelvys Hernandez was practically unhittable for the month of April, and Mac the Ninth in April and in June. Kyle Snyder had a grea June; Lima Time had an incredible June and July. Somehow, this merry-go-round of people stepping up managed to get us through August atop the division, and through the rest of the season above .500 (suck on it, Pirates!).
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Mar 19, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BBRef
Says Affeldt he made 18 starts, 18 relief appearance. Oh, if only he we would have left him as one or the other!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 19, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone have the Yahoo pick em information?
Ive looked everywhere on the site and it seems like those posts have disappeared…
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Mar 19, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nevermind...i am an idiot
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Mar 19, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goodbye... Jimmy....
Actually, I think he will be picked up as a loogy by some team. So, this makes room for HoRam to go to the bullpen.
by grudz96 on Mar 19, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yay!!!!!!!!!!!
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Mar 19, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gobble
The thing about Gobble is he never showed any emotion or let it be known he sick of getting the shit kicked out of him, I understand people getting hit and even getting hit hard but he never threw inside or really even challenged players, when you do that you aren’t challenging yourself. So sorry Jimmy you’re probably a cool guy but we want gamers and winners here….. we’ve seen to many people just collecting paychecks.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 19, 2009 9:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
do you really know he didn't care?
what do you want? a tantrum on the mound?
by royalsreview on Mar 19, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10
A great many pitchers are stone faced on the mound. They don’t show particular happiness, sadness, anger, joy or anything. They don’t pump their fists; they don’t yell; they don’t emote. Gil Meche has a poker face on the whole time. Occasionally his brow gets a little furrowed when he’s pitching poorly but that’s about it.
Showing emotion has nothing to do with being a good pitcher or being a winner. And “gamer” = grit = bullshit.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 19, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didnt say he didn't care
He just looked like he was completely lost.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 20, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he showed no facial expressions when he pitched?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 20, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, because he looked lost, scared and goofy.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 20, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you misinterpreted his lack of facial expression
He was and is an experienced professional pitcher. He was neither lost nor scared. He does have a goofy face though, but you have to blame his parents for that.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 20, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
but we want gamers
we’ve had a ton of these guys, most of them aren’t good players
everyone thinks, for example, that Ross Gload is a gamer too
by royalsreview on Mar 19, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Lima was a gamer
He showed a hell of a lot of emotion on the mound. Enough said.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 19, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that dude had a better career and made more cash then gobble. enough said.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 20, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
I’m sure it was the emotions that he showed that gave him a good career, until his career turned to shit. I don’t know why the fist pumping and hooting and hollering didn’t keep him successful longer. Showing emotion is a really important part of good pitching.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
But you threw Lima out there and that dude was an all-star, just saying. Hulk Hogan was a rowdy dude too and what did that get him? Oh yeah the WWF championship!!!!!
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 21, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point
I can name you a dozen crappy players who show a lot of emotion.
I can name you a dozen crappy players who show no emotion.
I can name you a dozen great players who show a lot of emotion.
I can name you a dozen great players who show no emotion.
The point being that showing emotion means nothing in and of itself. It doesn’t mean that you are good or bad. It doesn’t mean that you have talent or not. It doesn’t mean that you are more likely to help your team win or not. It is simply an aesthetic which is about as important as eye color.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the most part
But when you are gettin shelled game after game and you don’t pick up the intensity or maybe brush some people back or throw at a few, then I can’t really root for you…and that’s my point. if he was successful and showed no emotion that’s fine, but when you are getting pounded and people know whats about to happen when you come in and you don’t take control of the game then you’re a loser and you get cut.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 21, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
So is your problem that he didn’t show that he was angry when he got shelled? Or that he didn’t throw at batters when he got shelled? I think either criteria is silly in the extreme. Pitchers are often calm, cool and collected so that they can make their pitches and control them. They don’t get too up or too down. They stay on an even keel so they can do their jobs as well as possible. So if a pitcher is like that (like Meche and Gobble, for instance), then showing anger doesn’t help. It might make you feel better, but that’s irrelevant to whether a player should be cut or not.
And I certainly don’t want a pitcher to react to getting shelled by trying to hit opposing batters. First, that hurts the team. It doesn’t make him pitch better and it gives a free base runner to the other team. Second, it can cause a bench clear brawl which can get other players suspended and/or hurt. Why is this a good thing? How does this “take control of the game?”
Again, none of this emotional BS or throwing at batters nonsense has anything to do with how good of a pitcher he is or whether or not he should be on the team or any any team.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
“And I certainly don’t want a pitcher to react to getting shelled by trying to hit opposing batters. First, that hurts the team. It doesn’t make him pitch better and it gives a free base runner to the other team. Second, it can cause a bench clear brawl which can get other players suspended and/or hurt. Why is this a good thing? How does this "take control of the game?"”
I’m not sure if you have ever stepped into a batters box with someone throwing above 60 mph but it can hurt when you get HBP, Meche will hit you and throw inside and most successful guys will, it stops you from getting comfortable swings and covering the entire plate…Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez. I’m not saying they were good because they hit people, but it certainly helped that the batter wasnt comfortable
but the main point is —Go out there scared and don’t play like home plate is as much yours as it is the batters, then you deserve to get shelled… I could just see it in his body language, he wasn’t very imposing at all.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 21, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was he imposing when he was dominating lefties and striking out Morneau, Mauer, etc.?
It’s amazing how his “body language” must have changed when he faced lefties as opposed to when he faced righties. Long story short, I think you are projecting a lot in your read of his body language.
Oh, and hitting batters is a vastly overrated as a pitching tool in the majors.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
Have you ever been hit by a pitch, or stepped into the box knowing you are about to get a hit off a guy because he won’t look directly at you?
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 21, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but nothing near 90 mph
MLB players have been hit many times in their professional careers. They know it could happen at any time. They get brushed back and knocked down and they dig back in every time. They are far beyond being worried about a pitcher hitting them.
So measure the small effect of fear/intimidation on one hand against the free base runner, plus suspension(s), plus injury(ies) risk on the other and I think it is clear that plunking batters isn’t such a positive for the pitcher or his team.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
look at the other way
guys who get hit by pitches more really can’t hit that well, because they’ve been intimidated so much over the years.
Like this guy.
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by devil_fingers on Mar 21, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, from experience I'm telling you it makes a difference
I’ve been hit and hit hard, and yes it does make you think a little a make you a little nervous. It’s natural.
And who cares about a free baserunner, if your just gonna give a double anyways. I don’t condone it all the time however, that shit hurts and does work.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 21, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Experience
Have you experienced being a professional baseball player for several years getting plunked dozens of times in official games, plus more in spring training games, B games, simulated games, etc.? Neither of us have experienced something which is commonplace for professional players. We’re just speculating, but I doubt a MLB player is too nervous after facing a guy who hit him on the arm or side with a pitch. It just isn’t that big of a deal.
And who cares about a free baserunner, if your just gonna give a double anyways.
That’s a false choice. Those aren’t the two possible outcomes, or even the two most likely outcomes.
I don’t condone it all the time however, that shit hurts and does work.
There’s no correlation, historically, between HBP’s and MLB pitching success. Actually, it has a better correlation with pitching failure.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, if you can back it up
I was hit by a Major leaguer, the dude that went to KU and then the Rangers, Metcalf,he hit me in the head in HS Championship game.
So Clemens, R.Johnson, Pedro, Nolan just happen to scare people for no reason? They weren’t intimidating? They aren’t HOF’s? Yes they are and they will tell you that it works.
Batters maybe fearless and dig in no matter what, but their swing will be altered, they will not be locked in. Period.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 21, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like one MLB-quality HBP
Do you know what it is like to face these pitchers year after year and get plunked many times every year? Of course not. If it happens once to you, it’s big deal. If it happens many times every season for several seasons, no big deal.
Do you think Clemens, Johnson, Pedro and Ryan were successful because they cared players? Or do you think it maybe had something to do with their stuff, pitch complement and control? Fear is what happens to little leaguers and high school players. Pitching isn’t about fear in the majors.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah right
So you’re telling me MLB players are fearless? you are flat wrong…“Fear is what happens to little leaguers and high school players. Pitching isn’t about fear in the majors”…u r nuts, I never said it was about fear, never…. its about stuff. That proves my point u said it, Gobble, although a better pitcher then anybody never to make it to the big leagues, wouldn’t have played for a contending legit ball club, because he didnt have that stuff…He needed to be better, get better. One cheap way to do that is is keep people off balance, control the plate, pitch inside, or let people know that. That’s it.
Just cuz u made it to the big leagues doesn’t mean you’re gonna get comfortable when Randy Johnson is staring you down.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 21, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said it was about fear, never…. its about stuff.
Huh? Throughout this thread you’ve said that the problem with Gobble is that he didn’t show enough emotion and throw at batters. Now suddenly it isn’t about that; it’s about his stuff. You’re arguing both sides of the issue now. I’m done. Bye.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 22, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Cuz the stuff isn’t there. He lacked it, he doesn’t have it.
So, i know what he should do..go out there look lost, don’t control the plate, do challenge hitters, or anything of that nature. he should remain calm while his future paychecks are being smashed over outfield walls and he is being released. You’re right.
by ZachMartin2 on Mar 22, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Guillen shows a ton of emotion
which is why he’s such a great offensive force, what with the 20 homers and 97 RBI. That’s the kind of player only a keen scouting eye like Dayton Moore’s can spot.
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by devil_fingers on Mar 19, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He lights a fire under the rest of the team
…thus making everyone around him better.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 19, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never picked up this vibe from Jimmy.
But I got it plenty from Zac Greinke, Ambriox Burgos and Andrew Sisco. I watched Burgos get shelled a couple of games and his facial expression looked like he was playing a video game. I guess I should include Leo Nunez in this as well, although for some reason I always like Nunez despite it.
Among current Royals pitchers who seem to REALLY hate losing, Joel Peralta, Gil Meche and Soria.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Mar 20, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when the team is wininng in general
stoicism = “veteran calm” or something stupid like that
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by devil_fingers on Mar 20, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you just break the space-time continuum?
Soria lose? Is this possible? Has this actually happened?
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 21, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Soria so rarely loses because he hates it so much.
Every time he gave up a hit he looked like he had a mouthful of battery acid. He might cut himself with a razor in the locker room after he gives up a walk.
I love this. I hate professional players are feel perfectly at ease with losing. I know it is a long season and players need to keep each game in perspective. I just never want to see this line of thinking taken to the level of “Oh well, we are getting our asses kicked again. No big deal.” I think we had a few guys like that on the 2005 – 2007 teams. Not so many today.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Mar 26, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck Jimmy
I always (irrationally) liked Jimmy. I really hoped he would be able to turn things around in the bullpen like Grinke did. I always felt like the Royals ruined George and Gobble by brining them to the bigs too soon and almost did the same to Grinke.
I hate to see Jimmy go, but I think it was time.
by TampaRoyal on Mar 20, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
there's nothing irrational about liking players/teams
well, there is, but if that didn’t exist, why would we care about sports at all
I like Jimmy, too.
Heck, I love Brandon Duckworth, although that’s not hard to explain because he’s awesome.
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by devil_fingers on Mar 21, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only irrational if one's "liking" of a player leads one to want him to be on the team, regardless of his talent/performance
I liked Buddy Biancalana a lot. I really did. But he wasn’t good for the Royals.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
that’s why I don’t think it’s irrational of me to want Ducky on the big team. Who else is going to start Opening Day?
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by devil_fingers on Mar 21, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since you "love" Ducky
I’ll leave it to you to post his infamous calendar shot.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 21, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, its coming...
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by devil_fingers on Mar 21, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what, um.....
well anyway
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 21, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the grinders.
I love Grudz. I loved Minky. I love Hudson and Ducky. I love Peralta. I loved Joe Smith. I love the guys who play the game because they love to play the game.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Mar 26, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God help me,
I think I will even learn to love Bloomquist.
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by James Quinn on Mar 26, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's imperative.
And inevitable.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Mar 26, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All in all, it was best for him
He needed a fresh start somewhere.
That's why we play the season on paper.
by 306008 on Mar 22, 2009 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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