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The Mystery of John Wathan's 1980 MVP Vote

I may need to create a "Notes & Queries" section on this site...

I was working on a post discussing the worst catchers in Royals history (this came up in the game thread today) and I discovered that in 1980, someone gave John Wathan a tenth place vote for AL MVP. (George Brett, of course, won the award that year in a landslide.)

Wathan was not a bad player, in fact, he's the 41st best Royal of All-Time, which surely should count for something in this world. It's just that, I can't find a single reason why someone would have thought he was one of the top players in the American League that year.

In 1980 Wathan hit .305/.377/.406, which was a solid year in 1980, but hardly spectacular, given that his OPS+ was just 115 for this line. (Before steroids destroyed our national innocence all games were 2-1 pitchers duels that everyone loved because the game was played the RIGHT WAY!!!) Wathan's batting average and on-base percentage are nice, certainly so for a catcher, and he did have 17 steals, which was his forte as a player.

Still, tenth best in the American League? Let's start with the fact that Wathan only played in 126 games and only caught in 76 games (a huge part of his value). Wathan played a number of games at first and in the outfield corners, where his hitting numbers were much less impactful. Darrell Porter actually logged more innings at catcher for the '80 Royals than Wathan did. I can't speak to his defensive value, but I'll give Wathan the benefit of the doubt and say he was good, he was a good athlete and a fast runner, but he was also a catcher. His somewhat limited playing time and the fact that huge chunks of it did not come at catcher is a huge mark against seriously considering Wathan as a top player in the league. This is especially true given that, unlike today, pitchers were a part of the MVP discussion. Neither Wathan's BA or OBP were in the top 10 in the American League, and his .406 slugging was sixth best on his own team.

In defense of whomever voted for Wathan, his inclusion on someone's ballot may not have even been the weirdest vote that year. The perenially overrated Tony Perez and his .320 OBP snagged 2 points for some reason. Two batting average and nothing else guys -- Mickey Rivers and Miguel Dilone -- enjoyed sizable support. All evidence suggests this was a pretty bad era for baseball awards voting, given that it was the height of the attitudes that guys like Bill James were so annoyed by that they were compelled to start writing about it.

Nevertheless, it was a great year for Wathan, who had an up and down career, both as a player and a manager. Moreover, it was a great year for the Royals and a number of individuals on the team. In addition to Brett's MVP win, Quiz finished 8th in the MVP voting and 5th in the Cy Young. For good measure, somewhat forgotten Royal Larry Gura finished 6th.

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10th, no way

Though they didn’t have it then, but he was 54th in the league in Win Shares. This is still not as baffling as to why Jimmy Rollins won the award a few years ago.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Mar 26, 2009 7:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He probably actually GAINED

that vote or consideration for it by playing the other positions. The Teahen Theory – the more positions you play the more valuable you are. I certainly agree that flexibility like that helps the team and thereby adds value to the team. However, adding value like that to the team doesn’t necessarily make you one of the top players in the league. After all, there’s no TEAM in I.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Mar 26, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that is interesting

and further evidence it was prbably whoever the local sportswriter was (I saw what Wathan brought the team everyday…)

that said, hitting league average at a corner isn’t exactly helping the team a ton

by royalsreview on Mar 26, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2.5 WAR

according to Rally. Not bad, especially for Wathan, since his total for his career ended up being 3.5. That would be Alex Gordon gettingn an MVP vote this season.

Not an MVP, though, of course. Brett was 9.8.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Mar 26, 2009 8:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

interesting

although, like i said, MVP was all players back then… so it was almost like someone saying he was the 5th best position player

by royalsreview on Mar 26, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I tried to find somewhere a) how many places were on the ballot

and b) individual ballots

no dice on either, although the format is supposed to have been the same since the 30s

by royalsreview on Mar 26, 2009 8:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wathan's 1980 splits

Defensive Positions
Direct Link

 I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
-———————-—-—-—-—-—-————-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-———-——-——-——-——-——-——-——————+
   as C 76 314 282 35 85 7 4 4 35 30 6 28 1 1 0 3 10 8 0 .301 .371 .397 .768 .324 122 96 as C
   as 1B 11 50 41 3 7 2 0 0 3 6 0 1 1 2 0 2 2 3 0 .171 .292 .220 .511 .175 35 32 as 1B
   as LF 18 77 70 13 29 5 1 1 12 7 0 4 0 0 0 1 1 5 1 .414 .468 .557 1.025 .431 164 161 as LF
   as RF 16 58 50 5 14 0 1 1 7 6 0 7 1 0 1 1 5 1 2 .280 .362 .380 .742 .302 97 90 as RF
   as PH 11 11 10 1 3 0 1 0 1 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .300 .364 .500 .864 .375 155 120 as PH

by royalsreview on Mar 26, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

great #s at first

or not

I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me

by LeoBloom on Mar 26, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe he was Aikens' platoon mate at 1B at times

There are some really nutty tenth place votes at times. Just picking a random year:

1985
Damaso Garcia – why? he hit .282 with 8 home runs. Kirby Puckett also got a vote with similar numbers
Mariano Duncan – he hit a stellar .244 with 6 home runs and a 79 OPS+
Glenn Wilson – .275 with a modest 14 home runs at a corner OF position
Jeff Reardon – 2-8 with a less than spectacular 3.18 ERA for a closer…but he had 41 saves!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 26, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

closers as MVP candidates = teh awesome

I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me

by LeoBloom on Mar 26, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the national league voting, like the teams on the field

seems to be getting pretty bad

somebody gave votes to D-Lee, Stephen Drew and Jose Valverde last season

by royalsreview on Mar 26, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jenn Sterger was not alive in 1980

she may not have been alive in ’85

she’s never seen a good royals team

I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me

by LeoBloom on Mar 26, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Schaum should have her on the show to give her an earful about just what kind of baseball Dayton Moore is bringing to the K

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Mar 26, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miss Sterger

Is welcome on my show anytime…

Greg Schaum

"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."

by gashousegang on Mar 26, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In Ten Years

She’ll have a radio face.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Mar 27, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

I’m not sure there’s room for work up t here

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Mar 28, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that's as bad as the Rays last year

naming Jason Bartlett their team MVP. I think you could name about 10 other guys on that team alone that would be more meaningful.

by AxDxMx on Mar 27, 2009 2:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Larry Gura is only forgotten

because we have yet to see past # 34 in the Greatest Royals list.

Of course, he will also be remembered by many when the Royals Hall of Fame re-opens in its renovated surroundings.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Mar 27, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just another reason to ignore all awards issued by sportswriters

How are we supposed to take their “opinions” seriously, when there is evidence like this that strongly suggests that at least one of them either:

a) doesn’t take his vote seriously
or
b) doesn’t understand baseball in general?

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Mar 27, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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