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2004 Royals Draft Review

The Royals had 3 compensation picks in the 2004 draft and the opportunity to rebuild their farm system.  Unfortunately, the 2004 draft was not a very good one (as opposed to the 2005 draft which was incredible how much talent came out that year).

1st Round (14th Overall)

The Royals held the 14th pick in the 2004.  That hadn't picked lower than 14th since 1995 (also knows as the "Juan Lebron Draft").  The 2004 draft was sparce on talent.  The Commissioner was putting lots of pressure on teams to keep bonuses down.  The two best talents were Stephen Drew and Jered Weaver-both Boras clients who would slip to the middle of the first round.  The Padres went the cheap route and pick Matt Bush-perhaps the worst overall #1 ever.  The Royals were linked in the weeks leading up to the draft to such illustrious names at Chris Lambert (college right-hander) and Matt Ferris (college power hitter) neither of whom looks to contribute at the big league level. 

 

Star-divide

When the time came the Royals took Billy Butler-HS "3B" from Florida.  Butler was considered a 2nd round talent and many considered the pick a dreaded, cheap "signability" pick.  Butler's glove has been the subject of many jokes and he has gone from 3B to OF to 1B to DH and now maybe will get another shot at 1B.

Butler signed quickly and got 260 ABs at Idaho Falls where he destroyed the pitching to the tune of a 1084 OPS.  In 2005, the Royals bumped him up to High Desert (skipping Low-A Burligton) where his OPS dropped to 1055.  He got a little over 100 at bats in Wichita at the end of 2005.  In 2006, he went to back to AA where his OPS stayed around 880.  In 2007 he went to Omaha and had an OPS of 954 in 200 abs.  He then got his ticket punched to KC where he posted a respectable 794 OPS as a 21 year old.  Last year, he began the season as a starter but really struggled and there were different reports about his lack of maturity.  There were rumblings that Jose Guillen's infamous "Babies" rant was directed Butlers way.  Billy soon found himself back at Omaha, presumably for an attitude adjustment and he responded with a 981 OPS at AAA.  He was called back up and Butler was much better in the 2nd half of the year with an OPS over 800.

It would have been really interesting to see what Butler would have done if he had been sent to Burlington in 2005-I'm guessing his offensive numbers would have dropped a fair amount-Burlington-even though lower on the ladder is a far more difficult hitting environment.  I can't help but think that it would have done Billy some good to struggle a little in the minors.  As it is, he hit like crazy at every stop and when he struggled in the big leagues, we heard about maturity issues that perhaps would have been more easily addressed in the middle of Iowa.  

I'm still quite bullish on Butler and think it is only a matter of time before he starts posting some very good offensive seasons.  He is in better shape this year I look for him to become an offensive force this year.    

Here's how I would rank Butler against the 9 guys taken after him:

  1. Stephen Drew-D-Backs #15 overall
  2. Billy Butler-Royals #14
  3. Philip Huges-Yankees #23
  4. Josh Fields-White Sox #18
  5. David Purcey-Blue Jays #16
  6. Glen Perkins-Twins #22
  7. Greg Golson-Phillies #21
  8. Scott Elbert-Dodgers #17
  9. Chris Lambert-Cardinals #19
  10. Trevor Plouffe-Twins #21

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Billy-Butler.shtml

1st Round pick (29th overall for Michael Tucker)

The Royals were not going to offer Michael Tucker arbitration.  The Giants actually wanted to get rid of the burden of a 1st round pick so they signed Tucker before we could refuse and thus, the Royals were gifted with this pick which they used on University of South Carolina left-hander Matt Campbell.  Campbell had had a good 3 seasons for USC culminating with a junior year where he posted a 2.90 ERA in 118 IP with 138 K/36BB.  But his stuff was said to be a little short.  The Royals took him and he battle arm problems almost from the start.  In 2005 and 2006 he pitched at Burlington posting ERAs in the 4's while pitching around 60 innings.  He got 7 innings at Wilmington at the end of 06 and that was it.  He blew out his arm and last I heard quit baseball.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Matt-Campbell.shtml

1st Round pick (31st overall for Raul Ibanez)

I must admit, I thought the Mariners were fools for the contract they gave Ibanez and I happily accepted the compensation pick.  The Royals made good use of it.  This was one of those happy occasions where the Royals actually took who I was hoping they would pick.  Howell had a great Junior year for the Texas Longhorns going 15-2 with a 2.13 ERA and 166k/53bb in 135ip.  He signed pretty quick and post 26ip with a  2.77 era at Idaho Falls.  He moved all the way to the big leagues in 2005 pitching well in the minors but struggling in 72 rushed innings at the majors (6.19 ERA).  He struggled some at Omaha in 06 (but his peripherals were good) and then became Dayton Moore's first trade for the Great Car Jumper.  Howell posted a 5.10 ERA in 8 starts for the Devil Rays.  In 2007 he pitched well in AAA but got lit up in 10 starts with the big club (7.59 era).  Of course, last year, the Rays moved Howell to the pen where he flourished posting a 2.22 ERA in 89ip with 92k.  One of the upsides to the Royals drafting poorly for a long time is that we haven't often had to endure the pain of a former Royals farmhand becoming a good player on another team.  (normally they leave as free agents). 

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/H/J.P.-Howell.shtml

Other players taken in the supplemental 1st Round: Gio Gonzalez, Zach Jackson, Tyler Lumsden, Huston Street

2nd Round

For better or worse, the Royals took someone else I was high on in the 2nd round: Billy Buckner-another South Carolina guy.  Buckner posted a 3.32 era in his junior season with a strike out to walk ratio of 105/23.   He was known for having an excellent knuckle-curve.  He posted a 3.30 era at Idaho Falls after signing in 04.  In 2005, he went to Burlington where he a decent 3.88 era in 60 innings and was promoted to High Desert where his era was 5.36 in 90+ innings.  But his strikeouts were there and he was fairly stingy with the longball.  He went back to High Desert in 2006 and posted an excellent 3.90 era and was promoted to Wichita where his era was 4.64 in 75 innings.  In 2007 he spent the bulk of time at Omaha where he posted a 3.78 era in just over 100 innings.  But his strikeout rate was slowly dropping as he moved up the ladder.  He got 34 innings with the big club and had an era of 5.29 but a K/BB ratio of 17/16.  After 2007, he was traded to the Diamondbacks for Alberto Castillo.  Last year, he had a 4.95 era at AAA Tuscon (which is a strong hitters park).  He pitched 14 innings in the big leagues with an era of 3.21.  He has made the D-Backs out of spring training and will pitch out the bullpen for

them this year.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Billy-Buckner.shtml

2nd Round (for Raul Ibanez)

The Royals took Wisconsin HS right-hander Eric Cordier in the 2nd round.  Cordier had a terrific arm with a very good fastball/curveball and a feel for a changeup.  Coming for a cold-weather state, Cordier didn't get as much attention as some other players but it looked like the Royals may have gotten a steal.  He struggled in rookie ball in 04 and then missed all of 2005 with a knee injury and came back looking good in limited action in 2006.  But he got hurt again early in 07 and going to miss all of 2007 with injury (I think it was his arm).  The Royals ended up sending Cordier to the Braves for Tony Pena.  Cordier pitcher about 40 inning last year with a 5.18 ERA in A-ball.  I'll be rooting for Cordier-his dad posted occasionally at the Royals Scout Forum and seemed like a genuinely nice family-but the odds are long that he will ever see the big leagues. 

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Erik-Cordier.shtml

Other players taken in Round 2 (after our pick): Hunter Pence, Dustin Pedroia, Jason Vargas

3rd Round

In the 3rd Round, the Royals took HS SS Josh Johnson.  Johnson has been a good OBP with no power infielder.  Last year, he was 22 played mostly 3rd base for Wilmington and hit 253/399/337.  I'm guessing he'll got to Northwest Arkansas in 2009 and, in a year or two, he might end up being the player the Royals thought they were getting with Willie Bloomquist. 

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/J/Josh-Johnson-3.shtml

Other players taken in Round 3: Adam Lind, JA Happ, Jason Windsor

4th Round

The Royals took college reliever Nate Moore in the 4th Round.  He pitched in 2005 and 2006 at Burlington and High Desert and was OK.  He hasn't pitcher since 2006 and I'm not exactly sure why but assume he is out of baseball.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Nate-Moore.shtml

Other players taken in Round 4: Chris Iannetta, Collin Balester, Brandon Boggs (all taken before our pick), Ross Ohlendork, Casey Janssen, Rob Johnson,

5th Round

The Royals took a raw HS arm in Round 5.  Henry Barrera had great stuff but a questionable delivery.  By questionable I mean there are still some questions as to whether his delivery is legal in the rules of baseball.  I haven't seen it, I've only had it described-he apparently loses contact with the rubber before he releases the ball.  According to Baseball American, its legality depends on the umpire on a given night.  But he throws in the mid 90s with a slider and splitter.  Last year in Wilmington, he had a 2.81 era in 58ip with a 78 k's and 24 walks.  He should go to AA this year.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Henry-Barrera.shtml

Other players drafted in Round 5: Mark Lowe, Kevin Melillo

Later Rounds:

9th Round

A HS SS from New Jersey, Chris McConnell is a no-hit, all-field infielder who could eventually make it to the big leagues simple because there is very little SS depth for the Royals. 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Chris-McConnell.shtml

Others taken in Round 9: Troy Patton

15th Round

Gilbert De La Vara was a JUCO pick who was returned this week from the Astros organization as a Rule V pick.  He will probably be in Omaha this year.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Gilbert-De-La-Vara.shtml

Recap:

The question is do you grade on the curve since the Royals had 3 extra early picks.  Also, I grade the picks themselves, not what we did with them (JP Howell).  I'd give the Royals a B+.  Look at the 1st Round and how many of those players (even the early ones) would you trade Butler for?  Verlander, Drew and maybe Weaver?  Add in a few useful relievers: Howell, Buckner and perhaps Barrera and it was a good draft-even if the Royals didn't fill a couple of slots in their rotation with their "safe" college arms. 

 

3 recs  |  Comment 41 comments |

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Barrera is starting to look like a nice pick

I think he’ll develop into an effective MLB middle reliever.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 1, 2009 7:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looking back I was actually high on

both Rob Johnson and Dustin Pedroia. I spent way too much time watching those MLB draft videos of them in action. ALthough I must admit, I never imagine Pedroia being THIS good.

All things considered and doing my best to exclude hindsight, I think i’ll grade the draft a B.

Butler is a hitting machine and I can’t wait until the guy is atleast 25 that way we can get a sneak peak at how good he’ll be when he’s 27, haha.

by Royal from Queens on Apr 1, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pedroia had some great numbers

I liked Kurt Suzuki quite a bit and I heard somewhere that the Royals were high on Yovanni Gallardo and were looking at him in Round 2—but the Brewers beat us to the punch—I can’t remember where I read that.

by nwroyal on Apr 2, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

campbell

he didn’t have GREAT stuff, but his stuff was generally considered pretty good. average fastball but plus curveball. he did throw his curve A LOT in college from what i have read, but then again, so did Buckner from the same school.

also, nitpick, but you put Alberto CASTILLO in the Buckner paragraph. :P

Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.

by doublestix on Apr 1, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if only he'd worked out

sucks when you go with a supposedly safe college pitcher and he’s out of baseball three years later

by royalsreview on Apr 1, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

TINSTAPP!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 2, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

always great stuff, even if I'm not a "draft guy"

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Apr 1, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

nate moore looks like an awful pick

1) horrible premise to the pick: a college reliever, yuck
2) horrible outcome: out of baseball rather quickly

hopefully he was cheap

by royalsreview on Apr 1, 2009 11:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like someone the Royals would be in love with.
A HS SS from New Jersey, Chris McConnell is a no-hit, all-field infielder who could eventually make it to the big leagues simple because there is very little SS depth for the Royals.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 1, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oh, but some people on here will tell you...

that teams were just lining up like crazy to get their hands on TPJ…

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or maybe that more than one team was interested in a cheap out-of-options trade for him

(because there were). He had (and has) good defensive tools. And — amazing as it sounds — defense counts.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1st of all...

his defense isnt that good. 2nd of all, offense counts as well….he’s a below replacement level players, which by definition, you dont trade for. My mom could look at his minor league stats and tell you that he was going to be an awful major league ballplayer.

How exactly is it that you (president of the ‘we dont know what goes on behind the scenes’ club) are so certain that other teams wanted Pena? And, assuming that is true, how does it justify trading someone for a guy who’s not a great fielder, who is 26, and sports a career 617 OPS in the minors?

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought we were talking about interest in TPJ at the time of the trade....right?

He had (and has) excellent defensive tools (as I said above). Tools. That’s the kind of thing which can lead to good performance as a young, inexperienced player develops. And light hitting SS’s with good defense are desired by many organizations.

How exactly is it that you (president of the ‘we dont know what goes on behind the scenes’ club) are so certain that other teams wanted Pena?

We certainly don’t know. I just thought I’d respond to your certainty that no other team wanted him with the published media reports at the time that other teams were interested in him and talking to the Braves about him, as he was out of options and looked to be available. I think those reports are more valuable than your assumption that if you didn’t like TPJ then no MLB must have wanted him.

And, assuming that is true, how does it justify trading someone for a guy who’s not a great fielder, who is 26, and sports a career 617 OPS in the minors?

Ever heard of tools? In evaluating prospects, do stats trump everything else? BTW, all the scouts said he was a great fielder. You are using your knowledge of TPJ now to describe what an organization should have known two years ago. See the problem there? And it’s not like a good defensive SS needs to have even a .700 OPS to have some value.

And the Royals gave up essentially nothing for TPJ. I’m not saying TPJ is the guy Moore should have targeted. You just threw out your BS about how no team could have been interested in TPJ and I pointed out that the available evidence shows this just wasn’t the case. Again, just reporting the information I’ve read.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i SAID this at the time of the trade...

this isnt monday morning quarterbacking….he projected to be a below replacement level player…and we traded away an arm…not an extremely valuable one, but a young arm nonetheless….

We just picked up a guy very similar to Pena who’s going to be in Omaha, cant remember his name, but if we felt we needed a pena type guy, then you pick up one of the 10 or so of them floating around for free

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought we were talking about whether other teams were interested in TPJ too back then

As I said above, I’m not defending Moore’s choice to target TPJ instead of other, essentially free SS options. We were talking about whether or not other teams were interested in TPJ and then you have gone off on a tangent about whether or not the trade was a good idea.

[BTW, FWIW TPJ has been better than replacement level for the Royals. And his projections have him better than replacement level at SS for 2009. I’m not saying he should be a starting SS or even a UI for the Royals. Just thought I’d point that out.]

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh...and i completely forgot about the fact that we had Blanco who is a similarly...

terrible hitter and a better fielder….which makes it an even stupider trade

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh....and i stumbled upon this gem from you....

Our long national nightmare is over
We’ll at least have a good defensive SS this year. And we lost a B prospect with a blown out elbow. This is not a catastrophe people.
No matter how bad Pena is at the plate, he won’t be as bad as Berroa. And he’s not the “SS of the future”.
—Angel Berroa’s career OPS+ 77….take out the fluky rookie year…its around 70….
—Tony Pena’s career OPS+ 49

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If only OPS+ were all that mattered from a player

Compare their WAR (which includes both offense and defense) from recent years. Defense counts. Do you know that TPJ’s career MLB UZR at SS is +16.8?

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i get that berroa was likely as awful of a total package....

i just thought that was a pretty funny quote from you….

how you just KNEW that it was impossible for someone to be worse at hitting a baseball than Berroa…and sure enough, Pena blew him out of the water…made Berroa look like Arod

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i just thought that was a pretty funny quote from you….

Funny how? Like I’m a clown to you? [/pesci]

But seriously, where was I wrong? If defensive metrics count, he has been a good defensive SS, and an overall upgrade over Berroa. And as far as hitting goes, I was talking about Pena being a hitting upgrade over the player Berroa had devolved into. In the seasons leading to his trade, Berroa’s wOBA’s were .262, .270 and .234. Pena did better than that in his first year and worse than that in his second. So how is it that Pena made Berroa look like Arod? Are April and May of 2008 all that counts? You might want to re-check your stats (and not waste your time with OPS+ if you are going to try to meaningfully compare player performance).

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

298 career wOBA vs. 236.....

thats not close….Berroas awful year…the year leading up to the trade, was still significantly better than Penas career number

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please. Why bother with Berroa’s career wOBA? As I pointed out above, “I was talking about Pena beinga hitting upgrade over the player Berroa had devolved into.” Do you think Berroa was the same player by 2007 that he was back in his ROY sesaon? Clearly not. Both his tools and his stats had degraded spectacularly. But, feel free to look at hitting only, as runs scored count and runs allowed really aren’t that important. Regardless, I’m done with your “I’m a great amateur scout, pat me on the back” fest.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2009 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was just so obvious that pena was a terrible player....

and inexplicable to give up anything for him….thats all im saying

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey NY

I’m not sure whether you said these things or not but you seemed to accept that you did. So:

Angel Berroa’s career OPS+ 77….take out the fluky rookie year…its around 70….

How come’s you get to choose which seasons to take out or include in a player’s stats analysis? This is something you regularly jump on anyone else that might try an analysis like this?

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 4, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the case of Berroa

…over a seven year period, Berroa had changed. The stats showed it (he fell off a cliff after 2003 and had several awful years back to back to back). And the scouts agreed. Every spring there would be more reports from scouts that Berroa’s bat looked slower, that his foot speed was slower and that his range in the field was shrinking. For Berroa it wasn’t just a short-term “trend” of good year, mediocre year, bad year; it was good year followed by bad year after bad year after bad year. In the terms of people who put together projections, his string of consecutive bad seasons set a new, low baseline. Such is not the case for Teahen (as seen by his projections, and as explained on this site by Dan Szymborski, the creator of ZiPS).

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 4, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no horse in this race to the depths of hell

but come one. I prefer to use a weighted average or a projection, but if one is going to use career stats, just use those, don’t resort to the “throwing out the outlier!” thing. You are totally right in pointing out the silliness of doing this in others.

Believe me, I’ve tried to “outguess” Marcel. It doesn’t work.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Apr 4, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was attempting to quickly account for that one season. What I should have done was just point to his last three of four years, which is what one should do when evaluating a player, not looking at career stats. Marcel, ZiPS, CHONE and PECOTA all, I believe fail to look back as far as his ROY season.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 5, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK fair enough

I still think late 06 for Teahen was a fluke and could be expunged similarly however.

But, spring hope springs eternal. I’m hoping that Teahen’s drop off resulted from the Royals screwing with him and trying to make him into a home run hitter and that a certain Seitzer, Kevin can change that. He’s teaching the right stuff it seems to me – now to execute. And, I like him at 2B.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 4, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

baseball america sure didnt like pena....

On Tony Pena
“Pena’s not really a prospect…and he’s nothing special defensively.”

“… he is a vortex of suck with the bat. Tony Pena, Jr. will ever (sic) be able to hit enough to be Neifi Lite”

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 2, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

other teams might have wanted Pena

But he was on waivers, and because of our terrible record, I think we were like 2nd in line on waivers, so maybe this allowed us to beat out Tampa Bay or whoever, but we weren’t really going up against teams like NY or Boston that might actually have an interest in a defensive sub.

by marbotty on Apr 2, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he was on waivers at the time

I think he was just out of options and it was getting fairly late in spring training. But, as I said, I’m not defending the Royals targeting of TPJ for a trade. It seems like people are working really hard to argue against that particular straw man.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 2, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you know, i think you were right

i don’t think he was on waivers yet, although i think it was more or less conventional wisdom that the Braves were going to place him there

but let us not speak of TPJ, let us rejoice in the glory that is Mike Aviles and potentially Mark Teahen/Callaspo

by marbotty on Apr 2, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was actually a decent shadow draft for me

1 – IF Blake DeWitt (I’m a sucker for local kids)
1 – P Huston Street
1s – C Kurt Suzuki (became a huge fan after seeing him in the CWS)
2 – OF Jon Zeringue
3 – P J.A. Happ
4 – SS Paul Janish
5 – P Ryan Schroyer

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 2, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Someone should post

a writeup on how to become a big enough scouting-nerd to do do a shadow draft. I’d enjoy the exercise, even if I don’t have time to do my own draft.

DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!

by David Howards Legacy on Apr 2, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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