Exiled John Buck Leads Royals to Stirring Comeback Victory Over Yankees
by Freneau on Apr 12, 2009 5:07 PM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintWeird game, with a weird lineup from Hillman, but I think we'll all take it. I'm frazzled and fried right now, so this recap will be short on insight. In short, it sure seems like a huge win: there's a huge gap in how 2-4 sounds as opposed to 3-3. 2-4 is a failure, 3-3 is a stalemate.
- Meche wasn't as sharp as he was on Opening Day, and was probably left in too long by Hillman (its a tough call either way, and I had no problem with the move) but he played a major role in the victory, even if he left in line for a loss.
- John Buck went homer, single, strikeout, double, producing the first three-hit game by a Royal this year.
- Having your third catcher get a start at DH never sounds like a good idea, and it creates logistical problems as well, but Brayan's double in the eighth ended up being perhaps the key hit of the game. An utterly bizarre chain of events, but again, one that we'll take.
- The team drew two walks today, including a pinch-hit walk from Butler in the aforementioned eighth. I've seen numerous complaints about the strike zone in the game threads this season... is this really a problem?
- Juan Cruz has never allowed a run as a Royal.
- Farnsworth did not pitch.
- Jacobs had another terrible day at the plate and afield.
- Soria was Soria.
- The loss had to seem familiar to Yankees fans. The Yankees have had trouble getting the ball to Rivera the second half of this decade, and it's caused problems. I think Cashman is a good GM, but he's had difficulty building bullpens. For this reason, in fact, there's still so much sentiment to make Chamberlain the setup man.
- Your WPA leaders for the game: Callaspo .353, Buck .299, Brayan .264, Soria .078, Cruz .055. Nobody else was really positive from a WPA standpoint.
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Didn't think I'd get to use this twice in two days...
Farny being Farny.
by JobDDT on Apr 12, 2009 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I bet you wouldnt be saying that same thing
If Jacobs foul ball was fair.. and he knocked in to runs and maybe three if it was a homer
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
lol its all good.. Will is just sippin on some
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
It wasn't, and he didn't.
and how does that change the comment’s reference to this defense?
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
probably unique in history as a foul ball that would've made a player's performance look much better
sad that you couldn't see that
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 12, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say it's been pretty fair
except the opposing pitcher seems to get a little more on the outside corners. I didn’t see a problem today though.
It's a close one
I thought Farnsworth was a lock for worst off-season move but Jabobs is making a race of it.
He is living up to what we expected
We knew he was a hacker, with terrible plate discipline and zero defense.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
the burden is on the guy
with no patience, no contact skills, and a horrible defensive reputation to prove us wrong.
It's okay, he'll have a month where he hits 10 HRs
and everyone will point to that one month of why he is awesome. Like Guillen.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
And thats different how
from those that were against the deal jumping all ove rthe guy for a bad first 6 games of the season?
BOOM! ROASTED!
3 and 3 not bad considering
Crisp .217 Aviles .190 DeJesus .174
Keep Buck in the line up
(Stay around .500 till September)
Winning 84-88 games should be enough to win the division
Having fun following the Royals with you guys/ladies.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Apr 12, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm confident all of those number will turn around
It’s some of the others that need to improve that worry. We could have nice years from Crisp, DDJ, and Aviles and it doesn’t help if we don’t get much from Gordon, Butler, Guillen, and Jacobs
I missed the 7th-9th (i.e. the ballgame)
The Yankees have a guy named Phil Coke? Is this Steve Howe getting an 8th chance?
by sterlingice on Apr 12, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
a moment of silence please
Steve passed in 2006
Thank you
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
I love it when a plan comes together.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 12, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
as the most math-challenged RR'er
I’ve always been a buck fan. i am pleased that now not everyone hates him.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
i like Buck
he’s probably average at best, but I think he’s a better offensive player than Olivo, and while Olivo is better at defense in general, the gap isn’t as large as people think, Olivo’s superiority at throwing out basestealers mitigated by Buck’s better skills re: passed balls, wild pitches.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Buck has that big of an advantage in passed balls & wild pitches....
at least not to off-set his horrendous decline in throwing out runners.
WP + PB per 9
2004: Buck .517 Olivo approx .516 (split over two teams)
2005: Buck .498 Olivo approx .450-.460 (split over two teams)
2006: Buck .590 Olivo: .436
2007: Buck .331 Olivo: .609
2008: Buck ..436 Olivo: .546
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 13, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think that offsets Olivo’s greater ability to throw out base stealers, but d_f didn’t say it completely makes up for it. He said it mitigates it, and it does. It makes the defensive difference smaller. And with Buck’s OBP edge, that makes him the better overall player.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Apr 13, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What are the logistical problems for having your 3rd catcher as the DH? I don’t get it.
Good win today, nice to see a come back and some clutch hitting.
you can't PH for him
so you end up trapping your emergency catcher in the game
thats probably why olivo didnt’ hit for buck
Who are you gonna pinch hit for him anyway?
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
I don't get it
Are you saying that you can’t PH for Buck or for Pena?
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
i don't understand this either....sure you can pinch-hit for Pena....he's the DH
you could even pinch-hit for Buck if you wanted and let Pena enter the game defensively, taking away his DH status….of course then your pitcher has to hit, but in an emergency that could be done.
Honestly, when is the last time you’ve ever seen two catchers get hurt in a game and a team is forced to go emergency catcher? Was Jacobs a former catching prospect anyway? He could be our #4, if needed.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 13, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Big Win ! Can't wait to see Ponson Wednesday
well at least I’ll be at the renovated stadium. Jacobs defense is poor so hopefully Billy can get it goin and take his spot. B. Pena and Buck had some good Ab’s, they need to be playing two catchers until Guillen comes back.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
I know
Even if it’s really more akin to the quote “if you have 2 QBs, you really have none”
Neither should be championed
the combo of them both is completely average.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
Except for Buck's superior OBP skills
Olivo wouldn’t take a walk if you gave it to him. I’ve especially enjoyed his hacking at pitches outside the strike zone only to watch when he gets a fastball right down the gut. Seriously, Dayton trade him for handjob and something to be named later, preferably some Carribbean Jerk boneless buffalo wings, from Buffalo Wild Wings.
But seriously, I’d rather keep Buck, he seems to be hitting better this spring, and obviously he has an idea at the plate of how to approach the AB. OIivo is worse than Guillen when it comes to hacking, and that says a lot. Brayan Pena is an interesting player, and I’d like to see him get some starts at catcher.
Ya and Buck
has slow footwork that makes him easier to run on than a 12 year old catcher. Buck for the last two years has been a good to very good first half hitter and then falls faster in the second half than Pamela Lee’s pants when she sees a rocker.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
I'm for trading
whoever brings the most in return. Neither one of them is worth that much more than the other.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
The running game is important, but not that important
Buck gave up 59 SBs and caught 12 for a 17% clip. That is bad.
Olivo gave up 19 and caught 14 for a 42% rate. That’s better.
So Buck gave up 40 extra bases, but that needs to be looked at as a rate stat, as Olivo only logged 494 innings behind the plate to Buck’s 950.
So Buck gave up 59 / (950 / 9) = .56 SBs per 9 innings caught
Olivo had 19 / (494 / 9) = .35 SBs per 9 innings caught
Those can be read like ERAs, Buck on average gives up .21 more SBs per game than Olivo, which is 1 SB for every 5 games caught. And Buck gives up a SB a little more than every other game overall, while Olivo does it a little more than every third.
Finally, let’s see who teams ran on more, obviously Buck right?
71 Attempts against Buck in 950 innings = 1 Attempt per 13.38 innings
33 Attempts against Olivo in 494 innings = 1 Attempt per 14.97 innings
So yes, teams run on Buck, but only a little more than Olivo.
Offensive analysis follows:
Olivo outhit Buck by 31 points in average
Buck got on base more. Taking BA out of OBP, we see Buck got on base at a rate that was 50 points better than Olivo. Olivo had 7 walks to Buck’s 38, and Buck only had 64 more plate appearances!
Buck’s slugging percentage was awful last year (Olivo got him by 79 points), but that is mostly due to his subpar BA (walks don’t count in slugging obviously). He did have 33 extra base hits last year (23 doubles, 1 triple, 9 homers), while Olivo had 1 more extra base hit in 64 fewer ABs (12 homers, 22 doubles), which is roughly 16 fewer games.
So roughly, Olivo slugs a little better, Buck gets on base better, Olivo steals a few bases. It pretty much cancels out. Baseball Reference has their 162 game averages as producing an 81 OPS+ season for Buck and 78 for Olivo.
Now having said all that. Did I mention that Olivo turns 31 in July and Buck turns 29 in July?
In conclusion, I’d trade Olivo and Buck for Matt Wieters. But if I had to choose, I choose the player that isn’t hacktastic at the plate since they do seem to be about the same. It feels like they each have their weaknesses and strong points, but they exactly cancel out. So take the younger player.
And I’m tired, so sorry if I screwed something up in there.
by AxDxMx on Apr 13, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Fun game, Good win
I have a real concern with Jacobs ability to move around and field his position. I hope he gets more comfortable and i realize those balls were hit hard, but he couldve knocked em down, plus he hasnt hit for shit
Yeah, gotta knock em down
But at least he didn’t look near as bad as Swisher did on AC’s weak ass grounder!
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
Our lack of "clutchness" finally ended today.
Part of hte reason why I wasn’t worried in our slow, runs-wise, offensive start was that we were like 1-192 with runners on base. Or something like that.
Eventually, that’ll even itself up. Today was one step in the right direction: hopefully we can keep up the pace over the next couple of games.
Also, Buck > Olivo at this point. Both are eerily similar offensively, with their fear of taking 4 balls and all-or-nothing swings, but Buck is actually connecting on balls. And he doesn’t strike out on 3 pitches twice a game.
Finally, Brayan Pena is the man. The man, I tell you. Play him more. At this point, I’d rather TPJ get a start than seeing Jacobs trot out there again.
My feet are still frozen but
best. game. EVER. (not really, that was probably the DDJ walk off last year…which I was also at :D)
The Royals only scored when I was not in my seat. Weird…
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on Apr 12, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions
which means that yes,
I stood up when they sent in Butler. And look what happened.
Really, I should be today’s BOD.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on Apr 12, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I gotta ask
Why is it called Boyfriend of the Day? Couldn’t it just be player of the game? Or Stud o’ the Day, or something else? It just seems weird that’s all. I guess I’m assuming you’re a guy, it makes more sense if you are in fact a girl.
you sir, are wrong
you know what they say about assuming…
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Now it makes sense
So officially, how many girls are on here? 2? 3? I just make an ass of myself and assume everyone on a sports board is a guy I guess.
other ladies have come and gone
but few of us have stuck around for multiple seasons :)
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on Apr 12, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
certainly female :)
I got the name idea from Bat Girl, a Minnesota Twins blog. Unfortunately, it seems to have died off. It was done in a very similar fashion, with the boyfriend being the player of the game.
Though I do kinda dig Stud o’ the Day…
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on Apr 12, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
she was pretty "famous" as far as baseball bloggers go
she shut it down not long after her first baby, iirc
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 12, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
it's a real shame too
She had Zack in lego form on her site once, if I remember correctly. And every time I see/hear about/think about Joe Mauer, in my head I secretly call him Chairman Mauer. All because of her.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on Apr 12, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm looking forward to the series with Cleveland
This is a huge opportunity for the Royals to make some noise in the AL… I know it’s early, but if there ever was a time for the offense to come alive, now is it. Cleveland’s pitching has been nothing short of atrocious in the first week and the Royals need to capitalize on that fact. Kansas City has faced some very good pitching and the team is still at .500. I look for a few slumps to end and I expect more than 2 or 3 runs a game… the opening week jitters are behind them and the Indians are weak. It could get exciting.
It's not too early
Every game actually does count, believe it or not. The Royals need to break down the season into series (of course) and months. Play to have a winning month and stay within, say, 5 games or something. Their big challenge is try to play consistently to avoid their characteristic long losing streaks.
Interesting watching Milwaukee walk 4 straight runs in tonight. My main thought is that they Royals would not have been able to do that (if they were batting).
The General Theory of Royaltivity
Got to give Hillman credit
On using Butler as a pinch hitter for Jacobs with the Royals only down one run. Traditionalism says leave Jacobs in there as he is the most likely player on the roster to tie the game with one swing. (Although he is also the least likely to get on base, except for Olivo)
In a way, it’s kind of sad that Trey has to pinch hit for the Royals best power threat in a L/L matchup, but it is what it is. Hopefully he starts to hit soon.
Maybe
I actually think he should PH’d for Teahen. By waiting for Jacobs to come up, the Yanks just pulled their lefty and bought in Veras for the one out (which he didn’t get, but meh). If he comes in for Teahen, i suspect Marte stays in with Jacobs following and then you have Butler (Lefty killer) versus a lefty.
It’s all moot, it worked. But it is still worth noting.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
platooned pinch hitting is overrated
Since the platoon advantage is largely canceled out by the difficulty of hitting off of the bench. It onlly makes sense if the hitter bing PHed for is really, really horrible or worse than the PH, i.e., pitchers in the National League, Tony Pena, Jr., etc.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
But you'd still pinch hit for Bloomquist, wouldn't you?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Apr 13, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
probably -- he's right in there, it depends on the situation and who the pinch hitter was
I didn’t see the game, so I’m sort of lost as to the situation. I thought we were talking about trying to get the platoon advantage for Teahen for some reason. My mistake.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, that Teahen would have faced a lefty
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just throwing in a comment/question, not really trying to follow the thread
I think one of the reasons it is good to pinch hit for someone like TPJ or Bloomquist is that after the PA, that player is being replaced by a better player. So you have to evaluate the PA and whether you are really getting an advantage there (considering the PH disadvantage), but also how much the lineup is improved in later innings because of it.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Apr 13, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
So, is there a reason TPJ is still on the roster?
I’ve been trying to figure out the logic behind the non-move:
- The Royals seem to recognize that the weakness of this team is offense
- Their “power” threat, Guillen just went on the DL
- They have several young outfielders with options that could provide….well, not power, but at least some offense in Maier and Lubanski (and Kila, if they were willing to carry a 3rd 1B/DH)
- They have the middle infield covered between Aviles, Teahen, Bloomquist, and Callapso
- Any injury to Bloomquist or Aviles could be filled with a call to Omaha the very next day by Hernandez or Hulett
- Tony Pena hit .169 last year and has 1 AB through 6 games this year.
TPJ’s been playing about as much as a rule 5 position player pickup (non-Hamilton variety), and doesn’t figure to see much playing time in the future.
I realize that the 25th man on the roster isn’t that important, but it really seems to hamper the pinch hitting / roster options when you’ve got a guy on the bench that the manager seems afraid to play.
Is Dayton that worried about losing him?
by Top Ramen on Apr 12, 2009 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Is Dayton that worried about losing him?
I’m just amazed because it seems like DM thinks someone will actually claim him off waivers.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
obviously they will...
otherwise we wouldnt have given up a pithing prospect for him
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 12, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
he is THAT worried about losing him....
why?…i dunno
Kila…i wouldnt want to bring him up to pinch hit….he needs to get regular abs….im very anti maier and costa….but if we’re gonna suck at hitting, we might as well have good defense in the OF…which maier/crisp/dj would provide
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 12, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wouldn't really want to bring up Kila either
but I’m not sure why MITCH or Lubanski or Costa hasn’t gotten the call yet. (preferrably MITCH)
i dont think lubanski is in any way deserving of a call up...
and if i recall, he’s not on the 40 man…so we’d have to get rid of someone to bring him up
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 12, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I believe so
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Apr 13, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
well then...
i’ll just stick with the fact that he hasnt even close to earned a callup….if it was one of daytons first round picks, i could see him getting the call…just b/c every GM wants their 1st round picks to at least make the majors, but hes an allard guys, so it should and would be costa or maier first
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 13, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
just curious,
but why are you anti-Maier?
Don't Stop Believing!
I would guess that it is because neither is likely to be able to hit at a decent level in the majors. But, as he points out, at least Maier’s defense would be an asset.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Apr 13, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah,
who else can balance a ball hit from 400 feet away on the top of the wall without actually catching it first? Just kididng.
This isn’t intended as a retort to you NY, I’m just curious what everybody thinks about him… I like Maier, and i think he will still improve with the bat. He’s only had about 100 MLB plate appearances. He has improved most every year in the minors. He showed an increase in power this spring and has carried it over to Omaha. I understand the small sample size I’m talking about, and judging his future MLB performance on just his MLB numbers is similarly skewed. He may not ever be an all star, but I think he could be pretty decent and would definitely be a better outfield option than Bloomquist. Thoughts?
Don't Stop Believing!
he's not really young anymore, at 27, he's not going to improve much
but he’s about a 1 WAR player, which is all you can ask froma bench guy. He’d be a good fourth outfielder for the minimum. Or, you can pay Jose Guillen $12M to give you the same performance, or Willie Bloomquist $1.5 to be worse.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I like his defense, but he's already at essentially his peak
Now some players peak later, but I don’t think we should quite expect it. And Maier hasn’t been a particularly good hitter in the minors, especially in recent years, when you take into account age, level and # of years at that level.
I do think he’s a better OFer than Bloomquist.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Apr 13, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I suppose one could argue that the position swtiches have delayed his offensive progress, but I personally wouldn’t. I think that only really “works” for catchers.
Without going on a rant, it is frustrating that the Royals are wasting money on the one thing the current farm system might be able to provide: acceptable minimum-salary bench players like B. Pena, S. Costa, or M. Maier. They don’t all have to be Mike Aviles.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but I don't think he's played it for years. Not sure he ever did in the minors.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think he moved pretty quickly from catcher to 3B to the OF. And he’s been the OF for the last four years (five including this year). He’s out of excuses.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Apr 13, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
that's pretty funny
because I had originally typed, “hell, he’s probably better than Guillen right now…” but I took it out because I hadn’t looked anythign up to verify that.
Don't Stop Believing!
Why would he be worried about losing him?
When is the last time Dayton Moore made a stupid decision with a position player?
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 12, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Now, can we get Ryan to stop with the extrememly leading phone in questions like..
Teahen is playing his natural position at third and that he is best at, now Royals fans, feel free and phone in what is Teahen’s best postion?
Go Royals!
Right Field
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
oops, sorry, didn't mean to play along
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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