Royals Hang On, Defeat Cleveland
by Will McDonald on Apr 13, 2009 11:42 PM EDT
in News
350 comments
Gosh this was a slog tonight. Only a patch of drama in the ninth prevented it from being the dullest 4-0 game of all-time. Said patch also made it 4-2. I was really looking forward to the game, especially because, ironically enough, my wife and her family (who visit tomorrow) are from Cleveland. Gonna make my father in-law's usual question of "how are the Royals doing?" that much more tense. On top of that, Cleveland's a fascinating team, and a division rival, that seems to nosedive from time to time or year to year for no apparent reason.
The Royals snagged an early lead... and then there was just two hours of long at bats but not much more from both teams. When I skipped over to 7-11 around the fourth to grab a soda, I was bummed further, when I discovered that I couldn't pick up the game on the radio because of a Cavs game. (I can get Cleveland AM at night very cleanly.)
Oh well, I'm sure you've all loved my boring personal stories.
- Greinke was weirdly ineffective, yet never really in serious trouble. (Well, he did load the bases against the heart of the Cleveland order, but it never felt in doubt.) Two or three years ago, he hangs a couple pitches and doesn't strike out as many guys, and allows four earned runs in the process. Didn't happen tonight.
- With the bases loaded and still no outs, the Indians trailed 4-2. From that point forward Soria struck out Victor Martinez (who was good once), got a weak groundout from Travis Hafner, and struck out Peralta to end the game. Sick.
- Jacobs made good on his epic foul ball yesterday with a homer tonight. He's one of five proud Royals now batting over .200... err... over .199. Then he made us all proud by conducting his post-game interview with a cheek full of chaw. He may be a flawed player with a ridiculous goatee and questionable manners, but he's ours. Ours.
- Its interesting that the same day that NYRoyal talked about using Wright more as a long-man, he pitched two critical innings in the middle of the game, building a bridge to, you got it, our man Farnsworth. Your Farnsworth ERA update: 9.00.
- Watching Olivo and TPJ hit back to back is fun.
- Callaspo is hitting... (wait for it) the ball hard.
- Completely random quote from Gibbon's Decline and Fall to balance out the page: A being of the nature of man, endowed with the same faculties, but with a longer measure of existence, would cast down a smile of pity and contempt on the crimes and follies of human ambition, so eager, in a narrow span, to grasp at a precarious and short-lived enjoyment. It is thus that the experience of history exalts and enlarges the horizon of our intellectual view. In a composition of some days, in a perusal of some hours, six hundred years have rolled away, and the duration of a life or reign is contracted to a fleeting moment: The grave is ever beside the throne; the success of a criminal is almost instantly followed by the loss of his prize; and our immortal reason survives and disdains the sixty phantoms of kings who have passed before our eyes, and faintly dwell in our remembrance. (Chapter 48)
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yah, three game lead over the tribe now.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Apr 13, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seriously, $11?
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
weird
I only just realized what looked odd to me. The big asterisk is now a thumbs up, huh? When did this occur?
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 13, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just noticed it today
but don’t know fasho
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 13, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's from something in last night's game thread which has quickly become a running joke
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats what i get for sleeping
from now on, i’m awake 24-7
by marbotty on Apr 14, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liked the Farnsy usage
Didn’t quite understand the Mahay usage, but it was defensible.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 13, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't expect the quick hook by Treyman
but, good move.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 13, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I expected him to let Mahay have another batter but he did the smart thing and got Mexituff in there quick
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mahay
He was the only guy who hadn’t pitched in the Yankees series so I’m guessing Hillman just wanted to get him some work and thought a 4-0 lead was safe
by sterlingice on Apr 14, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
I didn’t see any flaw in the pen usage, other than the fact that Mahay wasn’t sharp
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Apr 14, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im a little late but $11?!?
Seriously, I just got back from a Taco Hut with two other guys and we spent $14 between us. HOW THE HELL DO YOU SPEND $11 AT TACO BELL?!
I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT
by RoyalPug on Apr 13, 2009 11:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had another idea for my BP Idol entry
Why Napolean references are essential to good baseball analysis.
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 13, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. You are chock-full of ideas!
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Apr 13, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haricut showdown: Carroll vs Jazayerli
all my ideas are gold, everyone, take ‘em while they’re free
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
idea #72:
Joe Sheehan: how I predict “breakouts” that will exceed their PECOTA projection, and yet never revisit them at the end of the season
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for some reason
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#73
A mouse defending lion, or Bringin a Knife to a Gun Fight: Seriously, They Had Steve Goldman Defend the Wieters Projection? What Does That Have To Do With Gil MacDougald?
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#74: " Some things are Just Coincidence:"
“Nate Silver leaves Bp around the time CHONE beats PECOTA for a second year in a row.”
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope, no one else should bother entering
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
second year in a row
according to Matt Swartz. I guess you didn’t have time to click on that link from my Driveline post today…
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the idea I just had
pales in comparison. Dammit!
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Apr 14, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 over .200 well those five are currently hitting better than
Pedroia and Big Papi so they have that goin for them
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 13, 2009 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops Big Papi just singled
.217
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 13, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Xaq just called Billy a defensive specialist
“First time I’ve ever seen him do that.”
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Apr 14, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
AND i made it back in time for zacks interview....
another good one
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$9.55....grande meal...keepin it simple...no vodka....
two interesting tidbits from the 610 postgame….attendance…10,341….player of the game: joakim soria….really?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
is the postgame very posted the next day?
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how can you spend $11 at Taco Bell?
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not a very healthy guy....
yet surprisingly skinnyish…..
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jacobs scored a 1550 on his SATs when he was in HS
according to his wikipedia page
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not many scored higher than me...
but of all people who did, i think jacobs pisses me off the most
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought you would appreciate that
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but props to you for making me feel like an ass for two minutes
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when did they expand the SAT?
I think Jacobs may have been one of the last people on the 1600 scale if he was born in 80
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was born in 85....
and it was still on the 1600…i think it was the year after me
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
We take the ACTs here in IA/NE. I had to look it up but I was probably still wrong. Yahoo answers was the first thing that popped up on google
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Yahoo answers
always provides GREAT content!
WTF, self?
by minda33 on Apr 14, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA ! I hadn't seen that one yet
Gorillamask has posted some other ignorant yahoo answers
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was born 83, took SAT 2001 and it was still old form
I got 1600 in KS
by Eppenweb on Apr 14, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
obvioulsy, the SATs weren't written by a left-hander
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but the ACTs were
did you oklahoma kids go ACT?
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
both
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats the plains side of OK
ACT is pretty rare in Texas, or was 10 years ago… lord knows how things are now
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could have taken either or both, iirc
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
irrc
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ACT > SAT
most of the Midwest is ACT, I believe….
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 14, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
headquarters in IOwa City
I came very close to being a grader once
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like an exciting job
it’s all multiple choice….so you’d just be feeding the scantrons into a machine?
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 14, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is a writing portion, no?
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not when I took it
Pure multiple choice
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Apr 14, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, now there is.
It’s technically “optional”, or whatever, but pretty much all colleges now require you to take the writing if you want to use your ACT.
And I just took it in November, so I win.
by rockchalk on Apr 14, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i took the old school
all bubbles one. super easy, got a 30 hungover (well, drunk to be honest).
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, if the season ended today
Would we have to play a 1 game playoff against the White Sox?
They don’t use tiebreakers in baseball, right?
(I can dream, right?)
by sterlingice on Apr 14, 2009 12:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
correct
The Rockies had to play game 163 two years ago to make the playoffs and then of course make their way to the WS. I was at game 163, best game I’ve ever attended. LoDo was a circus that night after the game, pure chaos and drunkeness!!
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Apr 14, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just last year there was a tiebreaker for our division
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the tiebreaker only goes head-to-head
and then goes to an extra game after that. Too lazy to look it up.
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Apr 14, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only time there is not an extra game
is if both teams are going to the playoffs anyway. Then they use a tiebreaker to determine which team is Champ and which is Wild Card. Otherwise there’s always game 163.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cancer or not, i really hate jon lester
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
GMDM is just following Billy Beanes lead. An overload of talent second basemen.
Tug hitting .470+, Callaspo hittin .333, Teahen swingin alright, Johnny G 2 HR’s 7 Rbis. 2b is the place to be.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
currency of baseball
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously....he wouldnt hoard them if it wasnt
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ducktales = Unbelievably awesome cartoon
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 14, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear God, yes.
It’s absolutely fantastic and awesome.
Completely and entirely underrated.
by rockchalk on Apr 14, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The K could lead to a nice season for Jamey Wright
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mitch maier is officially in KC
realistically speaking
by slayor on Apr 14, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's the speculation
and they just talked about coco crisp twittering in the clubhouse
realistically speaking
by slayor on Apr 14, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, do we think mitch has a crappy apartment somewhere in the city?....
or does he just crash in someones spare room while hes up here?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wonder
if he needs help packing, or has he already learned that particular skill set?
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd just keep a bag packed in the corner of my room
That way you don’t have to worry about getting down to KC and forgetting anything. I’m kind of a plan ahead and make sure everything is laid out correctly kind of guy.
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Apr 14, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen a story on this anywhere (Maier)
and on KCStar website it reports that Gordon is likely to play tonight (Tues). So, if true, who is going? And, where?
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
Has Waechter pitched yet?
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Apr 14, 2009 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HORRIBLE HEADLINE
I’m a big fan of this website, but the choice of headline for this story was awful (especially for someone who lives around Native Americans). Why joke about sending the “Indians” to a “reservation”? Would you also joke about sending the Mets or the Yankees back to the concentration camps? Or sending the Browns back down to the slave quarters? This was a tasteless and shameful choice, and I expected the gifted writers of Royals Review to be more cognizant of their audience (a team in the midwest will undoubtedly have followers who are Native American), and more professional in their writing.
by Ryan S. on Apr 14, 2009 9:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe the team name itself is a tasteless and shameful choice
Or was that just the incredibly racist logo?
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're absolutely right, but...
…why run with the metaphor? Unless the author was a staunch advocate of the team changing its name (a claim for which there is no evidence I believe), then the joke is on the Native Americans, not Cleveland. Just because the team name is racist does not mean that the author is not unintentionally racist, too.
Think about this. Your friend tells an awfully racist joke about black people. He’s morally wrong, without a doubt (at least by any reasonable standard). Does this really justify your own telling of another racist joke?
by Ryan S. on Apr 14, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean my comment to defend Will's headline
I was just voicing my concern that the root of the problem is the team’s name. If the name were something different, than such headlines as 1916’s “RED SOX SCALP INDIANS” and 2007’s “Indians scalp Red Sox to even series” could never come about.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have to agree with your position
Since I don’t come from the Cleveland market and don’t see many of their games, I haven’t been exposed to the Indian mascot much. But if the consequence of that portrayal is bad headlines like the one mentioned, then it’s further evidence that Cleveland should seek another name for its team. Hmmm…aside from a record rate of foreclosures, what else is Cleveland known for other than it’s large native population?
by Ryan S. on Apr 14, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cleveland Carey's?
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Apr 14, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cleveland Steamers?
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Apr 14, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cleveland Midges?
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Apr 14, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that was the intent.
A reservation is an administrative boundary, like a county or township or state. Although there has been a great deal of historical controversy, as a longtime resident next to a res I tend to think of it as nothing more than a place for homes.
I think it was meant in the context of “sending a team back home”, and not in the context of forced removal. I do, however, understand the miscommunication. It should probably be changed to avoid unintended controversy.
by Cairo on Apr 14, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, you're right Cairo.
A reservation, by its literal definition, is just a township. But one cannot ignore connotative meanings of words. How about another example? The denotative definition of "ghetto" might be "a place of limited opportunity for a group of people," but when you say "Let’s send the New York Yankees" – a city often referenced for its large Jewish population – "back to the ghetto" you are implying that this is where Jewish people belong. Exclusive language? If I had a Sarah Palin soundboard I’d push the "You Betcha" button.
Regardless of the author’s intent, "reservation" is a loaded term and s/he used it poorly. It might signify "a township for native Americans," but it is loaded with years of horrible history. You cannot separate it from the intentions of the Indian Removal Acts (one of the darkest chapters in American history). Thus when one says "Let’s send the Indians back to the Reservations," the author is implying that the reservation is where Indians belong. Insensitive? You betcha.
by Ryan S. on Apr 14, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think perhaps you assume and imply to much
for someone mad about implications. while the US governments repeated swindling and forced relocation system, combined with repeated breaking of treaties is reprehensible, will’s implication is not that that’s where they should be, but is instead where they ended up. while possibly in bad taste, i have a difficult time transferring the metaphor from “Kansas City defeats Cleveland” to “Send Indians to Reservations”. again, i do not agree with the Federal governments previous policy of relocation (or even of their super sweet hands off approach to administering these ‘sovereign nations’) but also do not agree with sensationalizing a baseball thread.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
that should read
super sweet
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that you understand
As a fan of the Royals Review, I’d hardly say I am sensationalizing a baseball thread. As a member of an online community, I am simply pointing out exclusive language that works against the overall goal of the website (i.e., building community based on shared love for the Royals). Just because you see nothing wrong with a statement does not mean that the headline doesn’t smell fishy. That’s the problem with Native American mascots to begin with. While you see the Braves or Indians as honoring our native past, many see it as essentializing/stereotyping/mocking an entire population. A headline like the one above shows a disregard for those people.
Am I insisting that people be politically correct to an extreme? I don’t think I’m going this far. But sensitivity about the Indian community seems to be expected, especially when a large part of the Royals’ market includes these people.
by Ryan S. on Apr 14, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at no time
did I say I “see nothing wrong” with the statement. I don’t see the Braves or Indians as honoring our native past (Florida State, however, is another matter entirely), and I do agree that If the headline read “Royals feed (inappropriate black team name) fried chicken”, the response would be overwhelmingly negative. Marginalizing the Native American culture further is not ok. The precipice I’m concerned with falling over is the one where headlines can’t read “Royals starve the Giants” or “The Angles go to hell” or “Royals Harpoon the Mariners” because of the possible affront to fat people, the religious right and seafarers respectively. The issue with the team name should be taken up with the ownership of those teams.
It’s worth noting that there’s something about royalty being bad in our governing documents, but we don’t stress about that.
Sorry, I digress, in short, I agree with the essential point but don’t feel that the problem starts with Will.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
White Sox depose Royals in bloody coup
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
my loyalist roots are offended.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
coming to this late
1) did kinda hesitate when I thought of it
2) can see the argument that its insensitive
3) do think the larger issue is the mascot name the Indians
probably won’t “go there” again
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+100
Especially on this:
3) do think the larger issue is the mascot name the Indians
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno,
As a Norwegian, I have a SERIOUS problem with the Minnesota Vikings and how my people and culture are portrayed by fans, mascots, and the franchise as a whole.
There are fake vikings at the games with spears and large chunks of red meat. This is a gross misrepresentation of my people and ancestors.
In reality, vikings were also adept explorers and peacefully settled into an agrarian culture throughout Europe and North America.
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Apr 14, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As an American
of Irish descent, I think the Notre Dame Fighting Irish portray my ancestors to be much cooler than they actually were.
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As an American
I’m embarrassed/proud/sensitive some people are about things they have no control over.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Apr 14, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind...
I’m in too big of a rush to make my point so I’ll let it go with that jibberish i wrote above :-/
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Apr 14, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure that the name is the issue.
I think their emblem, Wahoo, or whatever his name is, is pretty insensitive at best, probably quite insulting. I also think the name Wash Redskins is incredibly outrageous.
However, the Indians, The Chiefs, I guess I don’t see those as insulting or meant to be insulting. Then, again, I also recognize I’m not an Indian (of Native Am or subcontinent type).
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they use that horrible Chief Wahoo thing anymore
I’m not sure, but I haven’t seen it on anything for quite a while. And I don’t think any of the Native American-related team names were meant to be insulting at all. But I do think it is inherently offensive to use an ethnic/racial group as a team’s name and/or mascot.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take great offense
that you called them Indians. They are supposed to be called Native Americans. Or Natives from the Land that Eventually was Named the United States of America.
The real Indians from India are freaking pissed too.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is pitching lights-out!
send down ponson
by marbotty on Apr 14, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Technically, you're right Cairo
A reservation, by its literal definition, is just a township. But one cannot ignore connotative meanings of words. How about another example? The denotative definition of “ghetto” might be “a place of limited opportunity for a group of people,” but when you say “Let’s send the New York Yankees” – a city often referenced for its large Jewish population – “back to the ghetto” you are implying that this is where Jewish people belong. Exclusive language? If I had a Sarah Palin soundboard I’d push the “You Betcha” button.
Regardless of the author’s intent, “reservation” is a loaded term and s/he used it poorly. It might signify “a township for native Americans,” but it is loaded with years of horrible history. You cannot separate it from the intentions of the Indian Removal Acts (one of the darkest chapters in American history). Thus when one says “Let’s send the Indians back to the Reservations,” the author is implying that the reservation is where Indians belong. Insensitive? You betcha.
by Ryan S. on Apr 14, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
The reservation analogy isn’t even relevant anymore. A more appropriate analogy (living in Oklahoma) would be “Royals send Indians back to the 1-6 Casino”.
Geez, once they passed the law allowing for card games a few years ago, they’ve built like 10 in Tulsa Metro alone.
by KCScuba on Apr 14, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish a team was named the Crackers or Honkies
so that people could say things for fun. I invite all peoples of all race, creed and ethnicity to say anything and everything they want to me just so I have the option to have some fun back.
Mel Brooks, Chris Rock, Richard Pryor had fun with racism why can’t we all just be like them and not have a GIGANTIC STICK up our asses.
Yes I am just a dumb white guy that doesn’t understand.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PS Virginia Tech you are just one letter away
Make it happen
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-1000 on Politcal Correct BS
Signed German/Swedish/Iowan/Californian/Nebraskan Mutt
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm goin to the PETA
Anti-Animal Mascot Protest in May in Athens, GA. Anyone need a ride?
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
German, Swedish and Iowan too?
I didn’t realize I was addressing such a multi-cultural individual.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm 100% german....
so maybe that paints my perspective, but I just dont see why people are so easily ‘offended’ by things. It’s a harmless joke. I’d venture to guess that everyone on this board has listened to and laughed at a racist or sexist joke far more offensive than this.
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's easy to not be offended when you are white
And I say this as a white person.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm from a hick town in the middle of nebraska....
nothing to make fun of there. I went to an all guys high school, lots of gay jokes were made, lots of them were laughed at.
If I worried about everything that people jokingly made fun of, I’d live a pretty miserable existence
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone has things they can make fun of
But have white people from hick towns who went to boys schools suffered from lots of systematic discrimination?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the college application process IS systematic discrimination.....
Martin Luther King Scholarships—available only to minorities. Can you even imagine the outcry if there was a scholarship devoted to solely white people?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can you imagine the outcry if a group of people
came to your country, rounded up you and all your friends, then took you to their country and treated you like dogs, while you worked for them while not getting paid…….. oh wait, that did happen.
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But now they get scholarships
So we’re even.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When does it end? How many hundreds of years have to pass?
Crossing into very dangerous territory here, but the holocaust was a far worse thing to happen than slavery, yet the Jews have somehow managed to overcome it in 60 years…slavery has been over for 145
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Did the Jews stay in German for decades under a system of legally enforced discrimination? That system has only been formally done away with for about 45 years, and racism and discrimination still exist; it’s just that it is no longer legally enforced. I don’t think we should pretend now that everything is just hunky dory.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, millions of them were just killed...
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and I thought we were talking about...
…how Jews “overcame” after the Holocaust, vs. how African Americans have “overcome” after slavery.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm young and I think you are young
so we are from a generation that doesn’t really remember this shit, but the Civil Rights Movement was not that long ago, my parents remember it very well, and that isn’t even counting the many years after that where discrimination was still rampant. It’s obviously still here today but not as bad by any means.
I really have no knowledge of how things are going for Jewish people in Europe so I won’t comment to that, except to say that I think those two situations are very very different.
When does it end? I’m not sure, but I think there is something wrong if you worry about it this much (being in Kansas, though, I know many many people who feel the same way as you)
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This actually happened
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/11/22/gop_group_at_bu_offers_aid_to_whites/
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I go to Grambling?
I have no idea, just asking.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I laugh at white people jokes too.
Does that mean I’m racist against my own race?
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it means when you don't suffer from any discrimination, and never have...
…it’s easy to take “white people jokes” in good humor. There’s no nerve to hit there.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and what nerve is being hit when making black jokes to a 20 year old black guy?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because racism, discrimination and power disparities still exist
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah....tell me about it....
this kid i went to hs with got into Duke with lower SAT scores, lower GPA and less extracurricular activities, but a different skin pigmentation….discrimination is alive and well, you are correct
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Yeah, whites really have it tough now.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whites can't even become president anymore
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or hell, a 20 year old native american?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And because Native Americans still suffer from how this country screwed them and continues to screw them
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really dont want to get into the NA debate...
but really, all land is at one point or another taken from someone else who was there first. It’s like that now, always has been and always will be.
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if I take your house, you should just be ok with it and get over it
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If neither I, nor my community have the means to defend it....
then yes…go right ahead.
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, so as long as the strong are taking from the weak, then it's ok
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Darwinism
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no. It's called Social Darwinism, which has been repudiated by civilized society...
…as a bastardization of a scientific principle assigned to human societies where it does not apply and is merely used to justify inhumane acts.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just curious where you draw the line....
b/w taking someones land being right and wrong….
b/c various NA tribes were doing the same thing to each other for hundreds of years. Whoever had the strongest ‘military’ generally won. No problem for the Cherokee (or whoever) there, but when they run into someone bigger and stronger, it becomes a ‘poor me’ situation.
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was analogous to two nation-states warring against each other
As opposed to taking every square inch of Native American land, “reserving” some small patches of crappy land from them, and treating them like second class citizens. See the difference?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not at all....
groups fight over land. one side wins. one side loses. its part of life. some groups choose to move on, some dont.
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"choose to move on"
Wow…just wow.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, I say this as someone
who has close (both by blood and by bond) relatives who are card-carrying Cherokee.
If we are to accept the original native tribes as “nation-states”, and we are to excuse their theft of one another’s land because they were “warring against each other”, then one must also concede that what the United States did was, essentially, make war against nation-states.
Can’t have it both ways.
(For the record, I don’t think either situation is or was justified. Just attacking a logical fallacy.)
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Apr 14, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And is it ethical/right/acceptable for this nation-state to overrun another...
…take their land, force them onto reservations, etc., etc.? Call it war, call it taking, call it whatever. It is what it is, and it was either right or wrong.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again.
What was the final sentence of my comment?
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Apr 14, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying you are wrong or that you’re an idiot. I was reiterating the point which I think is most important.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You asked a question.
The question had already been answered.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Apr 14, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The U.S. should colonize sub-Saharan Africa...
and any other third world nations of any value! Hell, Costa Rica doesn’t even have a standing military. Free beachfront condos for all my people!!!
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 14, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
White Might makes right!
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If my great-great-grandfather
took your great-great-grandfather’s house, though…
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Apr 14, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then when you joke about how your family screwed over my family, I should just take it in good humor
…or not.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and btw, that is complete BS
(both historically and presently)
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly
But look up some of the piss fights here in Canada between “First Nations” over who was first. One tribe sueing another because one tribe was there 2 years before another, 400 years ago. Crazy.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Apr 14, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In courts
that have no jurisdiction over them normally, i might add.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Apr 14, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet, this is all just an overly facile way to legitimize taking anyone's land at any time
And that just doesn’t work.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about legalized theft
by governmental income redistribution. I’m guessing you’re all for that.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is discrimination
at every turn in life. Your too fat, your ugly, you don’t know the right people, you have a sweet goatee and hugh mound of chew in your mouth.
Will makes fun of Jacobs 24/7 because he doesn’t fit into Will’s “box of people he might have something in common with” and besides me I don’t see many people bouncing to his defense. Will implies he is dumb on the basis of appearance and one interview yet that is okay and making fun of a fictional mascot in which not one member of team is actually native american is offensive.
I guess I just have never been discriminated against in my entire life and have no frame of reference. Hey the Mohegun Sun certainly was sweet when I was there.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you understand that there is a massive difference between racial discrimination (both historically and presently) and "you're to fat"?
Clearly you don’t. And that is sad.
I guess I just have never been discriminated against in my entire life and have no frame of reference.
Exactly.
Hey the Mohegun Sun certainly was sweet when I was there.
Yeah, Native Americans are all rich now. Except that of course most are in poverty. You see some Indian casinos and assume Native Americans are rolling in money now. I guess assumptions are easier than facts.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Native Americans are all rich now. Except that of course most are in poverty. You see some Indian casinos and assume Native Americans are rolling in money now. I guess assumptions are easier than facts.
Ya they are all rich or they could be just like every other race some doing good, some doing bad and some choosing to do nothing.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen the poverty rates for Native Americans?
I don’t know why I’m asking. Of course you haven’t. You don’t care. You’d just like to pretend that they are doing just as well as whites or anyone else.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have you seen the alcoholism rates for NA?
that may also have something to do with their level of poverty, as may the refusal by many native american groups to take advantage of our comparatively great educational system.
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, so we take their land and force them into crappy reservations and legally discriminate against them for years...
And they are to blame for the ensuing poverty. I got it now.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are not to blame for the past...
but they are partially to blame for the things I said. There have been misdeeds in the past against pretty much every race by another race. It’s all about how people deal with them. Some NA have gone to be very successful b/c they wanted to get off of the reservation, get out of the poverty, become ‘first class citizens’ while some have decided against it. Some african americans have done the same things and some havent. There are very few instances where overcoming is not possible. Slavery in the 1800s and Indian reservations are IMO not legitimate reasons. Reasons to be angry? Possibly. Excuses for why you’re living in poverty? No
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See I almost think the opposite
One shouldn’t be angry about it, one should do something about it….
But the problem with being in poverty is that it is VERY hard to get out of it….And in reality, it is very hard to move up in class for all americans…not impossible by any means, but in our country, the majority of people born in to poverty, will stay there; same with the middle-class.
The reason AA are in poverty in this country, because of our ancestors, so why can’t we try and help ones out?
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*help African Americans out
as a society, I meant there
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, most NA are impoverished
because they choose not to do anything about it…
because being poor as s**t is so much fun!…
er
because having to ask a bunch of sanctimonious a**holes for help so one has enough food to eat, a place to live, etc. is just plain good times!!
no one is asking you to feel guilty, just grow up and realize that (at least based on skin color) you’ve been privileged. I don’t know your personal situation, so maybe you ‘pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps’, but I’m guessing not, because otherwise you would realize how hard that actually is. There’s a reason very few make it out (of poverty), and as hard as that may be for you to fathom while you have your pity party about not getting a stupid scholarship, its because of structural, endemic racism that created the impoverishment in the first place. A few scholarships/college placements is the least society can do. And frankly, that’s getting off easy.
I once tried to string together the combination, "Hot Shot Hit Foul". It didn't quite come out that way. -- Denny Matthews
by gordonfan on Apr 14, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is my favorite line of what I've read so far...
the refusal by many native american groups to take advantage of our comparatively great educational system.
Why would anyone not have taken advantage of this system?
An Indian boarding school refers to one of many schools that were established in the United States during the late 19th century to educate Native American youths according to Euro-American standards. In some areas, these schools were primarily run by missionaries. Especially given the young age of some of the children sent to the schools, they have been documented as traumatic experiences for many of the children who attended them. They were generally forbidden to speak their native languages, taught Christianity instead of their native religions, and in numerous other ways forced to abandon their Indian identity and adopt European-American culture.
If they would have just gotten with the program years ago, everything would have been fine now.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 14, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They just need to pull themselves up by their own boot straps
If only the U.S. Cavalry had left them any boots.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to borrow a line from the big O
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Apr 14, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
key words....'during the late 19th century'
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you act like being oppressed
is some easy thing to overcome
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Irish did it!!!!!!!111
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poverty rates can easily be scewed.
I went and watched a documentary about the Native Americans in Oregon protesting against the dams preventing the salmon from swimming upstream thus hurting their food supply. Under poverty rates those people are all classified as living below the line but they choose to live that lifestyle so are they really impoverished or are they just staying close to their heritage?
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so are they really impoverished or are they just staying close to their heritage?
They are really impoverished.
I’ve actually spent a lot of time on reservations in Kansas, Oklahoma and Minnesota doing a variety of legal and social service volunteer work. They aren’t living off the land in teepees. They live in crappy, falling down houses. They are impoverished, period.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem isn't
white people discriminating anymore or NA being lazy or anything. NA get discriminated against, so do many many other groups, races, intelligence levels, weight challenged people.
The problem is whites in general. The adding of thousands of different classifications, groups, etc. has lessened the voice of real groups. But cracking on people for making jokes isn’t helping things. It’s a joke ! I don’t see people jump down Chris Rocks ass when he makes fun of fellow blacks or white people or on Mel Brooks when he makes fun of jews. This Gigantic line of certain people can say something and others can’t is idiocy. When Carlos Mencia is cracking on hispanics and they look into his background to identify he isn’t mexican enough to say his jokes then that is freakin retarded. Oh shit now someone is gonna be jumpin on my ass for using the word retard. White people have nothing to bitch about but fellow white folks waving the flag of discrimination/racism is equally idiotic.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NA get discriminated against, so do many many other groups, races, intelligence levels, weight challenged people.
You really think that the discrimination against racial minorities is really basically the same as the “discrimination” against people based on their looks or weight. You couldn’t possibly be more wrong.
And I think being polite and courteous enough to try to avoid the offensive is reasonable and anything but idiocy.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hence why we should get rid of reservations and get rid of parallel judicial systems
What we did to the Native Americans was terrible, and we’re not helping it by trying to make up for it by allowing them to build casinos.
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
I live a HR away from a reservation. I filled up with gas at a station there a year ago. They pumped it full of water. Car Bust.
Now, that happens. That isn’t a First Nations thing. But unlike if it happened a mile East, i had no legal recourse whatsoever, because that reservation is “Soveriegn”. Its not the biggest deal in the world, but it does nothing to engender any true feelings of reconciliation or unification, on either side.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
by kcbottom9th on Apr 14, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not the biggest deal in the world, but it does nothing to engender any true feelings of reconciliation or unification, on either side.
I hear you, but the other side of the coin is Native American lands are “sovereign” only when and to the extent that the U.S. government wants to treat them as sovereign. When the federal government wants something on Indian land, or wants to exert its authority in any way, it pushes aside this faux-sovereignty. And this does nothing to engender any true feelings of reconciliation by Native Americans who still live as a conquered people under U.S. law.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, they essentially own an entire state!
Of course, for every rich Cherokee or Creek or Chickasaw, there’s a dozen impoverished Lakota.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Apr 14, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
white men suffer discrimination every day – it’s legalized all over the place in jobs, college applications, etc.
Am I saying there has never been or isn’t still discrimination against African Americans, Asians, or others? No. I recognize these.
My question is: Does 2 discriminations then make it right? If so, for how long?
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with equating the discrimination racial minorities face...
…with the “discrimination” whites face with affirmative action. If nothing else, there is a massive difference of degree. Affirmative action is pretty limited, both in scope and application. It’s not like all or even most jobs give a hiring preference to minorities. They don’t. White people overestimate affirmative action as this massive oppressive force which is keeping the white man down. It isn’t. It’s basically a small thing which is helping a relatively small proportion of women and minorities.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I thought the title was really funny...
but once I stopped smiling about it, I realized that this kinda stupid crap was going to happen. If it’s not your cup of tea, fine. If it is, fine. Will did nothing wrong here.
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it was fine for someone to point out that they didn't like it
I don’t think the above poster thought Will was being a horrible racist. But I think it is reasonable for someone to not like that title. I mean, what we have done and are still doing to Native Americans is pretty fucking awful. So I think people have a right feel sensitive about joking about reservations. Just my two cents.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
solid point
that i should have considered. I thought I might get one over without the math.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha if you're Will right now
you’re just sitting here looking at this thread thinking, “Damnit, what did I start?”
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or 'damn, i guess there will be no more jokes'
and while were at it ‘no more pictures of attractive women or BOD posts’ b/c we wouldnt want people of certain sexes to feel objectified
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, if anyone is ever offended by anything, then everything has to be censored
Or, one could react to this reasonably.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
You really think that random pictures of scantily clad women isn’t possibly objectifying or offensive? (No, I’m not saying the alleged 5% of RR readers who are women are actually offended - I’m saying that one could easily take it as offensive. As in, what does Megan Fox wearing not much have to do with a game against the Indians?) To paraphrase a wise man, “It’s easy to not be offended when you are a man. And I say this as a man.”
by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on Apr 14, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think that random pictures of scantily clad women isn’t possibly objectifying or offensive?
Sure it is. I’m sure some may be offended. I think that’s pretty rare, but who knows. I think if anyone has a problem with it, they should speak up (either in a thread or in an e-mail). I know that Will would not be insulted or angered to hear if someone has a problem with something. But it is an inherently difficult line drawing problem, and I get that.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have no problems with the pictures...
male or female….but they are clearly objectifiying….
whereas…i think wills joke was quite clearly just that and not really offensive….
if you dont like the pics, ignore them, if you felt the joke was in bad taste ignore it
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do sometimes feel bad that I've gone too far with that
though it does seem to help let people know that there’s a new thread up…
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now it's become a RR trademark
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
never too far RR
…never too far
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And again
I’m not actually complaining about the pictures… just pointing out what I perceive to be as a double standard in one person’s arguments/opinions.
by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on Apr 14, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify...
I’m not offended, nor do I necessarily think people should be offended, by the pictures that are posted. I do, however, find it to be wildly inconsistent to bemoan the Indians headline while dismissing the questioning of pictures of scantily clad women as unreasonable overreaction.
by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on Apr 14, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it is reasonable to equate joke references to reservations with a woman in a bikini. To suggest that women are as offended by the latter as Native Americans (and many others) are offended by the former is, in my opinion, ridicuous.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i dont think its reasonable to be really offended by a harmless joke either....
i think they’re both really big overreactions
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I don’t think it’s reasonable to get all high and mighty about one and dismiss the other as out-of-hand absurd. It seems you can’t decide whether you want to be thoughtful about this (your post in response to my first response), or dismissive and hypocritical (this post, your original post that I responded to). I refrained from responding to the dissonance of your prior two posts last time in the hopes that maybe I had just been misreading your original post, but you’ve come back and are still being, in my opinion, unjustifiably dismissive. To think that you can accurately quantify the relative offendedness that two groups of people should (or do) feel in response to these issues displays, in my opinion, quite a bit of hubris.
I do think it is reasonable to equate joke references to a historically sensitive issue with a continuing, pervasive objectification of a group of people in a way that many people feel continues to perpetrate the stereotypes and subconscious opinions that many have. To suggest that misogynism and the like are problems that don’t merit consideration in these types of conversations is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Or maybe we should wait for the WNBA to start naming teams “Bimbos” and “Butterfaces” before we start getting upset.
by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on Apr 14, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
I just found this blog yesterday and I really liked it (still do) is it always like this or is this a new record? Will (whoever) don’t stop writing these wraps.
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its normally pretty awesome for baseball talk....
getting into debates like this is extremely rare, so dont let this turn you off to the blog
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This happens on every forum
It ain’t my first rodeo — I’ve seen this on every forum it’s the nature of the beast. I was really impressed yesterday by the intelligent baseball talk. Better than any other forum I’ve seen so this won’t push me away.
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody wants Will to stop writing post-game wrap-ups
Nor does anyone think Will is a bad guy or a racist.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Will’s blog is by far one of the best. I’ve followed Royals Authority for some time, and now spend more time here. I don’t know Will, but I think it’d be unfair to call him a racist. Humor is enthymematic, or ambiguous, and sometimes it’s taken the wrong way. I was just surprised to see something like this on the website, and am still a little stunned to see people say “racism is funny, so get over it.”
by Ryan S. on Apr 14, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's a raging racist and i hate him
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about racist but he is definitely a raging Anti-Dentite !
And he has something against people who have odd shaped goatees, which I find very offensive.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
next thing you know
he’ll be saying they should have their own schools!
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
am still a little stunned to see people say "racism is funny, so get over it."
Are you new to this country? ;)
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of these happens about once a month
keeps things fresh
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can only argue about bannys value as a MLB pitcher....
or Buck vs. Olivo or the levels of Trey/Daytons ineptitude so often…
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or if Teahen deserves to play
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or even better WHERE?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or if Teahen deserves toplaylive
Corrected
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
dang it he's a nice kid
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off with his Head
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, no
the season’s started, so NYRoyal and I will get into one of these about once a week, at least.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Apr 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Followed by intense scissoring
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
either way it will be cool we have 3 sports radio stations but
I’m getting a little jaded I think, our local sports stations are great but I find myself thinking the thoughts that I’m going to hear come out of my radio analysts’ mouths about a half hour before they say them - not because I’m so bad ass wise or anything, I think it’s more like they have a big bucket of cliches that they keep dipping from; all “company approved” statements and it all just sounds the same over and over and over. I see fresh thoughts and statements here. Soren Petro, KK, Ryan, all these guys are great at what they do but it’s getting stale to me.
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like soren for most topics....
nick wright for chiefs and NBA and generally hate everyone else on pretty much every topic….and kietzman for his personality
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Border Patrol
is entertaining.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on Apr 14, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10
, I think it’s more like they have a big bucket of cliches that they keep dipping from; all "company approved" statements and it all just sounds the same over and over and over.
This describes the vast majority of mainstream sports media perfectly. It’s not all crap, but it’s almost all regular ol’ traditional thinking that you’ll hear from any moderately knowledgeable fan at a bar. And it’s full of cliches.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Move away from KC
And you’ll realize how good you have it in Kansas City with 810
by sterlingice on Apr 14, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
mmmm, scissoring.
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Apr 14, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just hope they don't figure out
that we argue on purpose.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or that we're actually the same person
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is scissoring
like spooning? If so, I don’t want to hear anymore about it. Grosses me out – Not that there’s anything wrong with that though. And, I won’t let it offend me.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is much more intense than spooning
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so there was a baseball game last night...
Royals won. Yay!
And there will be another baseball game tonight. We should win again. Yay!
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Apr 14, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
those open thread things....
Is there usually a pre-game thread opened up at some point during the day?
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Will puts it on an hour or half hour before game time
NYRoyal might know, even though he is a game-thread hater
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't know if I like them or not either
I just think it would be fun to watch a thread run for a change instead of the standard yadda yadda you get to hear on the radio every day!
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't been on one this year yet
but the last couple of years I’ve been to many….they are almost always fun to go to when you don’t have someone to watch the game with because all of the sudden, you have a bunch of people to watch with….
I will warn you, when the Royals are struggling, though, game-threads turn into a plethera of negativity, overreaction, and just general bashing of everything Royals….Enjoy!!! In all seriousness, though, the gamethreads are cool
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but if there is some topic that isn't just a statement
that you think will generate some discussion, definitely throw it up during the day in the fanposts or fanshots section
All Royals discussion is welcomed
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There usually isn't a pre-game thread
The game thread usually goes up 30-60 minutes before first pitch. Pre-game discussions before that just kind of go on in various threads, but there isn’t anything created for the upcoming game, per se.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and dear sweet god
we need game threads by 5:30.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are last in the AL in every traditional offensive category
Except steals. We have the 13 spot for that.
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we're first in SB%
Woohoo! Actually I’m surprised and happy that this team isn’t running more.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
before the two runs given up, we were first in RA
that still going after the two given up?
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
we are 1st or 2nd in every traditional pitching category in the AL.
Except quality starts (6th)
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn you zack and your 104 pitches in 5 innings
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to stop striking out so many batters
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
allowing so many hits would be a better place to start...
but if 5 innings 0 runs is a meh zack start, i’ll take it.
how absurd is the QS stat? 6 innings and 3 runs and zack gets a gold star. 5 innings and 0 runs…no gold star
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about TPJ's defense last night
pretty good….I could easily handle him playing every 6th day and being a defensive stud, now he just needs to learn how to….bunt
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he cant bunt and he's not a good baserunner....those are problems....
but yes, when we’re ahead in the 8th inning, I have no problem with Pena being in the game
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is blasphemy and heresy
You don’t get to say anything positive about TPJ, ever. That was the most offensive thing in this thread. The fact that he was very, very good defensively last night is irrelevant!
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you think he's worthy of a roster spot?
im sure you’ve talked about this already, but i dont think i was around
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm interested in what NYRoyal says
but I don’t see why he wasn’t dropped so he could clear waivers and go to Omaha…
He wasn’t, though, so as long as he’s on the roster, when he plays he better play gold-glove caliber defense
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and our manager better use him in situations that take advantage of his one major league level skill
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn it....
and our manager better use him in situations that take advantage of one of his two major league level skills
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's only slightly better at relieving
than Nick Swisher.
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Apr 14, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher
might be my favorite non-Royal
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mine too....
i wish he could be my favorite royal
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait 5 years
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a goofball badass who's actually pretty good at baseball
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i made an argument to a friend that we should try to get him, and then the ChiSox traded for him. I was pissed. And they were too dumb to keep him. And now, he’s a hated Yankee.
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Apr 14, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
moves like the swisher sox and yankee deals are what keep....
kenny williams from being a great gm…..great move, great move, bam…give up too much for swisher, great move, great move, give swisher away for a utility guy…its like he’s trying to let everyone else keep up
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I don't
But I think it is a much smaller mistake than it appears most do. He’s actually a good defensive IFer. He’s not great because he makes some mistakes on routine plays. But his range is excellent and his arm is good. So having him as a defensive replacement is a positive (to go along with his negatives). The fact that he’s an awful hitter obviously hurts. But given the fact that he’ll very likely get few PA’s mitigates that negative (he only started on Monday because three players were injured). I would have gone with Shealy and made do with the defense as is. But I think this mistake is a small one, which has a decent silver lining.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...im on board...
as long as he’s not staring meaningful games when there are other options, I’m fine with it. Honestly, I’d rather have him on this team than shealy. With the teahen experiment, Joguis continued outfield adventures, aviles’ being relatively unproven defensively at short, a guy like TPJ isnt bad to have around.
I do think that there should be massive defensive changes when soria comes into the game though…or even cruz in the 8th…bloomy at 2nd, teahen in right, tpj at short…all of the sudden, were a very good defensive team and we might be able to outperform our pythag record by being excellent in 1 run games by avoiding blown saves, by having a great closer and great defense around him
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured that was coming
but in reality, though
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's right!
where are the numbers showing that his hitting is so bad that it more than outweighs his hitting! And if they are there, we know that Dayton Moore would have them and make his decision accordingly, because he’s an “average” GM!
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he's sure getting lots of plate appearances!
Has his poor hitting outweighed his defense this year so far? And are you suggesting that any mistake he makes proves he’s not an average GM? If you are going to ridicule something I say, then ridicule something ridiculous.
Can we end the bullshit snark-fest now? If you want to say something, then you can feel free to come right out and say it.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Acceptable snark vs. Bullshit-level snark
Bullshit = my comment
Acceptable:
You don’t get to say anything positive about TPJ, ever. That was the most offensive thing in this thread. The fact that he was very, very good defensively last night is irrelevant!
Line clearly drawn.
Note the following comment from this thread:
I think you’re missing something
If his usage is primarily defensive and he gets his appearances in the field, but relatively few PA’s doesn’t that affect his value? If a player is good defensively and bad defensively, but most of his actual playing time is defensive (in the field) and not offensive (at the plate) then isn’t his defensive value much more important than his offensive value?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 3, 2009 9:44 PM PDT
If he’s starting the game, his offensive opportunities are roughly commensurate with those on defense. If he’s a -1 win player, we can assume that, on average, him starting a game is a net loss to the team over a replacement player.
Then again, I’m probably totally biased, as my endless defenss of Joe Posnanski after his horrible columns shows, as opposed to the objective analyses offered by others of Dayton’s Moore’s moves — those who were right from the beginning on Gload’s defensive prowess, Jose Guillen’s contract being maybe a bit large but making sense for a team like the Royals that “’has” to overpay for good players like Guillen, how the Jacobs trade is just one data point, how Moore might spend $1M for Farnsworth, but that’s not bad given his outstanding track record with bullpens, etc.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Context
Line clearly drawn.
My comment was in response to InmEsteban saying something positive about TPJ. So wasn’t smacking someone down. I wasn’t directing my snark at anyone. Whereas your comment was directed at me. You were basically telling me, directly, how dare I suggest that TPJ has any positive value, or that DM might be an average GM. That’s really deserving of ridicule. However, I think the suggestion that TPJ isn’t good at anything and provides nothing of value to the team in any role is deserving of snark, especially when i’m not snark-bombing anyone in particular.
If he’s starting the game, his offensive opportunities are roughly commensurate with those on defense. If he’s a -1 win player, we can assume that, on average, him starting a game is a net loss to the team over a replacement player.
And he’s only started one game. The rest of his appearances have been as a defensive replacement. So he’s been given more opportunity to help the team with his defense than hurt the team with his offense so far. If he gets a bunch more starts and PA’s then he’s going to hurt the team considerably. We’ll see if that happens.
Then again, I’m probably totally biased, as my endless defenss of Joe Posnanski after his horrible columns shows, as opposed to the objective analyses offered by others of Dayton’s Moore’s moves — those who were right from the beginning on Gload’s defensive prowess, Jose Guillen’s contract being maybe a bit large but making sense for a team like the Royals that "’has" to overpay for good players like Guillen, how the Jacobs trade is just one data point, how Moore might spend $1M for Farnsworth, but that’s not bad given his outstanding track record with bullpens, etc.
Wow, what is with you today? I don’t even really know what this paragraph was all about except for lots of anger and venom. I’m right and wrong about things every day, including the Royals and Dayton Moore. I certainly don’t blast your analysis as horribly biased, stupid and usually wrong. I don’t know if that’s what this paragraph was implying though. I don’t really know what it was about at all. Would you care to clarify?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you act like that the one time he played meaningful innings this
year that he didn’t save a run on defense….when he boots a ball or something then I will understand it, but the only opportunity he’s had this year (1), he’s done well.
by I need more Esteban on Apr 14, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without knowing either way, I'd guess that RR's title here is meant to mock the racism of the Indians' mascot
And I’d make jokes at the expense of both sides of the political/social/cultural argument above, if it didn’t compare favorably with the self-congratulatory circle jerk I witness at most academic conferences.
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
P.J. O'Rourke
had this piece about how sports teams should be named for the dominant ethnic group in their city, so you’d have the New York Hebes and the Chicago Polacks and the Boston Micks and the San Antonio Spicks and the Nashville Rednecks and the Detroit Colored People. The problem would be what you would call the team from San Francisco.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
by Juancho on Apr 14, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kansas City _____?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Non-Descripts
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
by DCRoyals on Apr 14, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cow-Towners
it’s the stereotype we get from all the other metro areas
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The two references I'm aware of in pop culture are:
1. Blazing Saddles: “….quit dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots…..” or something like that (sorry, no offense intended, just quoting).
2. “Kansas City” (various artists): Refer to “getting one of those crazy women there” (feel free to define crazy for yourself)
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
P.J. O'Rourke is a tool
And not just because of that. I’ve read a couple of his books. I wish I had those hours of my life back.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDMt2XCE-YU
Atom and His Package – If You Own the Washington Redskins, You’re a Cock
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Probably the Hillbillies
since the entire Missouri side of the state line comes from the Ozarks.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
by Juancho on Apr 14, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And people on the Kansas side are from...
Paris? London? Manhattan’s Upper East Side?
by stuckinstl12 on Apr 14, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
much rather a Hillbilly
than a redneck or flatlander.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy played some pretty decent defense at 1b last night
Hopefully Trey lets him continue it.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hopefully...
but im not counting on it
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pleasantly surprised he's played there this much
In 7 team games, he already has 3 starts at first base. If Hillman is using him there in the first week of the season, then I don’t know why that wouldn’t continue.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep...its becoming pretty obvious that....
sad as it may be, he is the better defensive option. and even if he was moderately worse, he needs to be out there
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So like 100 comments and 12 hours later...
I changed the headline, as you can see.
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yay PC wins again
Please change the SAT inset. Your implication that Jacobs is dumb is sarcastic and offensive to us fellow white guys with goatees.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on Apr 14, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your request will be given its appropriate consideration
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your implication that Jacobs is dumb is sarcastic and offensive to us fellow white guys with goatees.
But do you run around with your mouth open wide while chewing tobacco creating an odd appearance?
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I probably do some times
but I would not say it is an “odd appearance”.
FKA "MileHighKCfan"
by JSouth on Apr 14, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went with a reservation reference
its not like the argument was just over saying Indians or some such
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am offended by your current thread title "Royal Hang On, Defeat Cleveland"
What kind of cliche-monger hack have you become? This is newspaper-level drivel on a blog and I won’t stand for it! If it were any more bland, you’d have to package it as off-brand vanilla ice cream. A pox on you and your beige house!
by sterlingice on Apr 14, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also... Cleveland's promotional motto the last two year is
Are you in the Tribe?
which I believe is a secret reference to shapiro being jewish
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sneaky bastard
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'defeat cleveland'
how will clevelanders ever overcome?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good...since i hate all of cleveland b/c of drew carey
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the man mostly...
the show was funny at times, but i just cannot stand drew carey….and supposedly his fatass was a marine or a navy seal or something
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that seems somewhat far-fetched,
but it would explain the buzz/flattop haircut he has sported
by benfunke on Apr 14, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
being clevelanders
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 14, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beckett suspended for 6 games for throwing at abreus head...
kickass
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that just floors me
He didn’t get ejected but he can be suspended -
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that common?
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happens every year, but not often
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so he'll get it reduced to four and not miss a start?
by Will McDonald on Apr 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think SP's ever get their suspensions reduced to fewer than 5 games
Unless they overturn the suspension entirely, which they won’t do.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he can always keep appealing it until it's most convenient for him to serve!
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
until he'll miss a start against the Royals?
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he'd want to miss his best chance at a ho-hitter
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I was getting at
I’m jsut too lame to know where to click the mouse
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
think he'll appeal
and get a hearing some week when they’ve got an off day
Raytown MO Redneck Resident
by BillyMojo on Apr 14, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would need to rent a fleet of bulldozers to remove the sand...
…from the group of vaginas that have congregated in this thread.
POLITICALLY CORRECT BLOGS NAO!
<33
realistically speaking
by slayor on Apr 14, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love these chatty recaps. No really, I do. No sarcasm.
I loved the Gibbon quote. He is a horrible historian, but a very nice writer.
Some thoughts I had while listening to last night’s game.
“Crap, he really is going to start Tony Pena from time to time. Crap that.”
“Grenkie is really fighting tonight. I like that . I think he used to give in when the heat was on in the past.”
“Yeah, there is Jacob’s weekly homerun. That will keep him in the line-up. I wish he would hit two homeruns a week or no homeruns a week. Crap that.”
“Denny sounds pretty bored tonight as well. He keeps talking about how few people there are at the park. He keeps talking about more interesting games he remembers from the past.”
“I don’t dislike Coco as much as I thought I would. He works the count pretty well.”
“Teahen back in right field. That is the third position he has played in two games. Wow, that guy gets jerked around a lot. I bet he hates to read about how he ought to be benched because he only hits .275. He gets jerked around a lot and still holds up fairly well at the plate. I like Teahen fine and am glad he is on the team. I wish people would stop hating on him. They need to recognize how often he gets jerked around.”
“Wow, Cleveland kinda sucks this year. That is weird. I wonder if Grady Sizemore has fewer Ladies when the Indians suck? Grady’s ladies are not all pretty. Most of them are pretty, but some are not pretty.”
“The Royals are 4-3. That is pretty good. Yet it makes me sad. I do not like this roster and if the Royals have a winning record few roster changes will be made. Nah, it is good when the Royals win, even if they defy my roster wishes.”
“Maybe Callaspo will be good this year? But if he is good, will the Royals jerk Teahen around again and turn him into a ….. what? What is left? A pitcher?”
Those are some of the things I thought last night while listening to the game.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Apr 14, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Callaspo ends up good, then Teahen can be RF in the "perfect" world of our roster
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 14, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonight's starting lineup - Guaranteed TPJ and Bloomquist-free
Coco Crisp – CF
Mike Aviles – SS
David DeJesus – LF
Mark Teahen – RF
Billy Butler – 1B
Mike Jacobs – DH
Alex Gordon – 3B
John Buck – C
Alberto Callaspo – 2B
Kyle Davies – P
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yay buck!
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Buck tonight so Olivo can face the lefty tomorrow
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 14, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh come on
you and i both know it’s more emotional than that.
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 14, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW +1 billion or so to everyone here
There was some pretty damn serious issues debated here and I have to say that for the most part it was handled very respectfully. That’s saying a lot compared to most internet forums.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 14, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
check out the indians page on yahoo
chief wahoo is still around
by Will McDonald on Apr 15, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn, that's right
That logo/image and the name “Redskins” take the whole thing to another level. I don’t like teams calling themselves “Indians” or “Chiefs” but at least those aren’t inherently insulting. But that caricature and that epithet are indefensible.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Apr 15, 2009 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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