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Around SBN: Post-UNC Thoughts

A breakdown of Treydaddy's Decisions: April 19th Edition

So that wasn't easy to see coming, was it?

 

Farnsworth_medium

via redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com

 

Those of us who took part in the gameday thread did a lot of first-guessing of Trey's managerial decisions as the Royals' chances to win slowly spiraled down the drainage pipe of doom. However, there were others who stood up for the Porn Stache and his moves from the dugout.  While I'm still steaming after the loss, I'm going to try and make a somewhat-analytical look back at the moves he made to try and see what he was thinking from the bench.

 

Star-divide

Decision #1:  Lineup
--We'll give Trey some credit for the lineup. Compared to some of the other ones he's ran out there, this one may be one of his best--considering our current roster.

Decision #2: Coco bunting in the top of the third

340x_medium

via cache.daylife.com
--I'm willing to cut Trey a little slack here, since it's unknown whether Coco bunted on his own, or if it was called from the dugout.  The bunt ended up "working," I guess, since Maier ended up scoring, but the entire scenario just stinks of nitwit-edness. First of all, it's the top of the 3rd....in Texas....against Vicente Padilla....not exactly a pitcher's duel or late-game scenario. Secondly, it's not like Davies was throwing up zeros on the scoreboard at this point in the game either. Thirdly, Padilla had just walked Maier on four straight pitches. Not exactly ideal bunting time. Also, Aviles and DeJesus (at this point) hadn't been squaring the ball up that great themselves. It was a curious move at the time, and still is.

 

 

Decision #3:  Inserting TPJ as defensive replacement for Aviles in bottom of 7th.
Pena

via bleacherreport.com

This may have been Trey's last good move of the entire game. In the top of the 7th, Mike Aviles had recorded the second out. Unless the Royals got two runners on base during the 8th/9th innings, Aviles' spot in the lineup was not going to bat again. The only other Royal who probably wouldn't see another at-bat was DeJesus, and he wasn't going to need a defensive replacement. However, if you want to have TPJ on the roster, this is EXACTLY how he should be utilized. Thus, the decision to enter TPJ for defensive purposes was a smart move. As it turns out, I don't think TPJ even touched the ball (enter line about how the ball always "finds" someone when they enter the game for defense), but this was a solid decision.

 

Decision #4: Bringing Juan Cruz in for relief
305-juancruz0008_sp_3-1-09_jfs

via media.kansascity.com

Texas had the 9/1/2 hitters (Andrus, Kinsler, Young) scheduled to bat in the 7th, and with Davies at the end of his line, Trey called on Juan Cruz, he of the 5 innings pitched, only ONE hit allowed, three strikeouts, and two holds.  As Charles Montgomery Burns would say,  "EEEEEEEEEEEXXXCELLENT."   This was the logical move, right?  Cruz for the 7th/8th, Soria for the 9th?  No Royals fan would've argued with that logic, if that had been the gameplan.  Cruz struck out Andrus, walked Kinsler (on a very close 3-2 pitch), and proceeded to strike out Young.  Enter Josh Hamilton, hitless for the series, and entering Miguel Olivo's territory of strikeouts.........

 

Decision #5:  Bringing in "not a situational lefty" Ron Mahay
--This is where the fanbase started to go berzerk. Juan Cruz should not have come out of the game at this point. The man has pitched to 18 batters so far this season. Only two have reached base--Kinsler, who was currently on first; and Victor Martinez, who was subsequently pinch-ran for with Josh Barfield, who got thrown out as a part of Buck's strike 'em out-throw 'em out double play.  Yeah. That's right. He'd faced the minimum (plus Kinsler) at this point of the season.  

Ron Mahay, on the other hand, had retired eight batters and allowed four to reach base so far this season. Trey just got destroyed in the media for saying he's "not a situational lefty," but NOW he's going to bring him in for exactly this type of situation?  Puzzling.  What makes it more puzzling are Cruz's splits vs. lefties.  They hit .159 off of him last year, with 0 HRs in 24.1 IP.  2007 and 2006 he wasn't as good (.269 and .263, respectively), but that puts him closer to the Mahay vs. Lefties territory (2008: .255, 2007: .189, 2006: .240,  2005: .302). 

Now, Mahay did the job by retiring Hamilton, but there's a pretty good chance a lot of people could have retired Hamilton in that spot with the way he's swinging the bat right now. In my opinion, this is where the game was critically mis-managed. You burned your most dominant reliever so far this year (including Soria) for two outs, and then pulled him in a situation where it wasn't blatantly necessary to relieve him? 

Simply put, if you go into this inning dead-set on bringing in Mahay to face Hamilton, then don't use Cruz to get Andrus/Kinsler/Young out. Robinson Tejeda has been filthy, Jamey Wright has been solid as well so far this season...use one of those guys.

 

Decision #6: Not bringing in a defensive replacement for Jacobs
610x_medium

via cache.daylife.com

--Remember when I said it was a smart move to sub in TPJ for Aviles, since he wasn't likely to bat again? Yeah, well the EXACT same scenario happened with Jacobs in the 8th. He batted in the top half of the inning, and while we don't have a stone-cold lock as a defensive replacement here, it's obvious that he is the worst option to play first base for KC.  Butler was already the DH, so the only way he could've played first is if you wanted to lose th DH and have the pitcher's spot bat. That would've been unconventional, but it would've been smarter than what we did. Butler wasn't likely to bat in the game, either. I've seen LaRussa do this when he plays inter-league games before.  But say you don't want to have Billy at first.....go ahead and enter the Spork. 

You could've slid Bloomy to 3B and Teahen to 1B, or let Bloomy play 1B and have Teahen stay at 3B, since Trey has some irrational fear of moving two players' positions. (remember entering Bloomy in RF and letting Teahen stay at 3b....or last year when he entered Gload in RF and kept Teahen at 1b?) Another option would have been to move Callaspo to 3b, let Bloomy play 2b, and have Teahen play 1b. That would've blown Trey's mind.....but those are four possible defensive alignments---all of which would have resulted in better defense (without hurting the offense), and would have put the Royals in a better position to win the game. That is, after all, your job Treydaddy. And we didn't even mention Brayan Pena, who was being touted as a guy who could play corner positions other than catcher (presumably first base). While he hasn't played out there yet, maybe he was even a better option.

 

Decision #7: Calling on Jamey Wright, not Soria
6-24_20soria_20cover_medium

via royals.mlblogs.com

--After the wheels start to fall off with Jones' double and Jacobs' error,  Hillman calls on Wright. But don't think he panicked and called on Wright....that was his plan all along. He had Farnsy and Wright warming up the entire inning.  I think his plan was to use Mahay to retire Jones/Blalock, and go to the 'pen if necessary.  I'll give him the most minute piece of credit for not bringing in Farnsy here, but not much. It's a no-brainer. Wright is a ground-ball pitcher, and with runners at first and third, you'll give up a run to get the DP. Wright did his job...inducing ground balls, but not where the Royals could've turned a double play.  In the post-game interview Trey blamed Callaspo for not getting the lead runner on the first ground ball, and while it would have been a close play, I think he had time to get him with a backhand flip to TPJ....who's still waiting to touch the ball at this point.

However, in the sense of "taking the sure out," and considering he had his momentum already headed towards first---I don't think taking the out at first was as critical of an error as say....not having Cruz /Soria in the game at this point.....or having a different defensive infield.

Decision #8: Entering the Gas Can
Farnsworthlogobig_medium

via images.broadwayworld.com

 

 

 

 ---What more needs to be said at this point?  Of course, Trey did the "conventional" move, saving his closer Soria until the Royals had taken an imaginary lead against the Texas bullpen's next imaginary pitcher. This entire plan, however, is contingent on Kyle Farnsworth holding the lead against the heart of Texas' order: Young, Hamilton, Jones, Blalock.  Who am I kidding? Everyone knew it wasn't going to make it to Jones or Blalock....even Hamilton probably would've gotten out of his slump against Farns. While I was surprised it only took him two pitches to blow this one....the fact that he gave up a gopher-ball (Young's first career walk off) was not hard to see coming. I LOVED how DeJesus didn't even try to run back to the wall. He just took a couple steps and then was like "screw it," and started the walk of shame. 

Obviously anyone would've been a better choice than Farns---even TPJ. He's blown three of our losses already this year....and he was decent in two games--one of which was the Yankees game where the hitters were being blinded by shadows. And I love how Trey was quoted after the game "...obviously Kyle is not pitching well right now....but we have seen some good things from him this year--in Spring Training..."  UGH.   Farnsy.................Hillman..........

 

 

Mario_fail_medium

via www.threadbombing.com

 

 

 

 

 

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I didn't like the lineup all that much

I would’ve hit Jacobs higher in the lineup against the soft tossin righty. Not that it mattered and hopefully Jacobs blunder is enough to not play him at First for quite sometime.

The pitching decisions I didn’t have that big of problem with. Yes I would like Soria to go in sooner but we also don’t know the background. Jamey performed decently as did Mahay. His biggest mistake and yes it was again the same mistake that they’ve made for the third time this year. Pitching Farnsworth in a high leverage situation.

That is three times now and if Trey continues to run him out in high leverage situations then he deserves any fate that may come his way.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Apr 19, 2009 8:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not exactly sure what constitutes a "high" leverage situation

but I’m pretty sure no one on base, 0 outs isn’t one of them, no matter the inning.

I could be wrong if leverage has something to do with the hitters being faced, but I thought it was all sitational, as in bases loaded, 0 outs = HIGH leverage.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You said everything that needed to be said

Oh, and when did we trade Robinson Tejeda? I assume he was dealt because he was not asked to even so much as warm up and has not pitched since Wednesday.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 19, 2009 8:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tejada instead of Cruz probably was a better play and leave Cruz ready for later.

I don’t understand why they won’t give Tejada the Wednesday start instead of HoRam. These types of losses just suck the wind out of decent start. The team could easily have swept three series if it wasn’t for Farnsworth.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Apr 19, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh how I wish they would get rid of the rule

That Joakim Soria is only allowed to pitch in save situations!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 19, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's funny

I didn’t think there was a RULE AGAINST using your closer before the ninth inning.

by BrRoyal on Apr 19, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the decision to keep Jacobs at first was the most aggredious (sp?)

decision made. Bringing in Farnsy in the ninth was just inevitable….
I am out of town for Friday and Saturday with no access to the web or email, they play
well. Today I get to watch, and this happens.

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Apr 19, 2009 8:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I miss Ross Gload.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 19, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

ME TOO

http://www.southsidesox.com/2009/4/2/819786/cactus-league-finale-white-sox-vs#13641879

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 21, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

The time to put in Soria was the 8th, not the 9th.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 19, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially with

a frickin’ day off tomorrow!

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Apr 19, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Genius, labba.

That’s pretty much entirely correct in every way.

by rockchalk on Apr 19, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well broken down

I almost feel sorry for Farnsworth at this point. I’m sure he wishes he was better. In fact, at this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if he starts hoping Hillman won’t bring him in in tight situations—which would probably hurt his performance anymore.

Fire Trey Hillman. (no exclamations, just cold acceptance.)

by BrRoyal on Apr 19, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i too feel sorry for him

how does it feel to be the player on the team that hurts it the most? it’s not farnsworth’s fault the royals thought so much of him to offer him a giant contract and use him in situations where he doesn’t succeed

by 9il on Apr 19, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually thought the same thing today.

I absolutely hate him at this point, but only because he’s not a good pitcher and our manager doesn’t seem to understand that.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Apr 19, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yeah...my issue isnt at all with farnsworth...

its with our terrible manager. Is Farns supposed to turn down the outrageous contract he was offered?

Hillman has taking what should be a great start for this team and brought it down to a pretty good start

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 19, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Decisions made by Hillman over the last two weeks

will lead to him getting fired. Since KC’s talent level is higher in 09 than it has been, the manager can’t use the “we just can’t compete” argument. Hillman isn’t properly using the talent that he has been given. His inconsistency with Mahay is concerning. Why pull Cruz early? Saying “We need to get Soria some opportunities” then not pitch him in a game like today is on the manager.

If Cruz and Soria finish the game, the other stuff doesn’t matter. Farnsworth instead of Tejeda? Bad move. Trey has the tunnel vision of being convinced Farnsworth is a late inning guy when he just isn’t – doesn’t matter how much they are trying to justify overpaying him in the winter. Two close games – two losses. KC could be 9-2 right now if only the bullpen was better managed.

by daveyork on Apr 19, 2009 9:14 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Where to now?

I’m very curious to see how yet another crucial failure by Farnsworth today affects his standing in the pen. Will this be the last time Trey calls on him in such a situation for a long time? We can only hope… Is there a chance Farnsy continues to pitch so poorly that he gets “Yabuta-ed” down to Omaha for a spell? Longshot…

I’m thinking that he’ll be a 6th-7th inning guy for a few weeks…then start pitching somewhat decently in that role. This will cause Hillman to once again call upon him in a higher leverage situation such as today’s, where he will fail again. After that, who knows…

What really bothers me (or, more accurately, scares me) is this: if all of us could see Farnsworth’s struggles coming the day he signed, why couldn’t Royals’ management? If all of us could see Farnsy’s meltdown coming as he jogged in this afternoon from the bullpen, why couldn’t Trey? Mind-boggling. It makes it very, very difficult to see this team, despite its talent., winning anything under Hillman (and, I hate to say it, but maybe even under Moore).

by cookierojas73 on Apr 19, 2009 9:18 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Phantom injury that leads him to the DL

Seriously, it seems to happen every time one of our guys suck.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 19, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Farnsworth is good

Dayton Moore is good at buliding bullpens on the cheap. He gave Farnsworth 2/9.5 with a club option for the third year.

Ergo, criticisms of the signing are wrong. Farnsworth has been great so far.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Apr 19, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

unfortunately,

we have a ton of similar afflictions in our past (and present)

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 20, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Percentages of Soria success in the bottom of the 9th?

Probably above 90%.

Percentages of Farnsworth success in the 9th against the Heart of Texas? 0%

Yep, they definitely were against you Trey.

Although, if he meant the percentages were against him getting Soria a save in the ninth, well he was no doubt right about that. Hard to change the rules. What a goddamn tool.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wasn't aware he even knew anything about percentages

How can he talk about percentages if he doesn’t “believe in” or understand platoon splits?

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 19, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sort of agree with Hillman here

you don’t put in your closer in the 9th in a tie game on the road. If the game goes to extra innings you will need your closer to lock down the bottom half of an inning once you’ve gained a lead.

The point here is the wrong decisions were made in the 8th not the 9th. Not brining in Soria to pitch the 8th was the fatal decision.

Hillman could have brought in Tejada or someone like that in the 9th but the game was already lost at that point.

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 19, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's wrong though

You have to get there first.

It’s like not pitching your #1 starter in game 6 of the World Series, because you are saving him for game 7. What’s the point if you don’t get to game 7?

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's the other side of the coin

to be sure. But I at least see some logic in what Hillman is saying in regards to not putting him in there in the 9th.

My issue here is what Hillman did in the 8th.

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 19, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna have to disagree.

That idea means the only point of having a closer is to pitch him in save situations which I totally disagree with. If he is truly the best in the bullpen why waste him in low leverage situations? For that matter, why waste Cruz, who has been absolutely lights out, for 2 batteres in the 7th? It makes no sense.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To royalsreview

It’s not too late to buy firetreyhillman.com and have it point back to this site!

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 9:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Definition of insanity...

Is continually using Farnsworthless in ANY kind of clutch situation and expecting a result other than a complete catastrophe. The sad part is that he is just about the ONLY pitcher that could have been the incorrect choice (even HoRam would’ve been better), and Hillman managed to make it.

I’m not that upset about the Jacobs decision. For goodness sake, he IS a first baseman, and we don’t have a “shutdown corner” at first. That’s a play you just have to make. Starting Butler there is marginally better (maybe), but I really don’t blame Trey for that.

I swear though, if he puts that diesel anywhere near a fire in the next month, I’m going to go all spider monkey on him.

Russ Gload = Doug Mientiewicz....without the pop

by Dubya on Apr 19, 2009 9:35 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Soria as a starter...

argument should really be put to bed. Particularly since he clearly can’t pitch more than one inning.

Russ Gload = Doug Mientiewicz....without the pop

by Dubya on Apr 19, 2009 9:37 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Actually, I think this issue opens it back up

If we can’t find spots for him to pitch for a week, what good is our best weapon doing for us on the bench? This should be case #1 for Soria in the rotation.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

or for a new manager....

once again, we’re not asking trey to think outside of the box….we’re just asking him to not fuck up obvious decisions….this is now 3 games on Trey

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 19, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If by "more than one inning" yo mean "a week"

then your name must be Trey Hillman

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Apr 19, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FAIL
“We’re never in that situation if we make a couple of plays,” Hillman said. “It was the defense more than the pitching.”

Wrong. The defense wouldn’t have mattered at all if the correct pitchers had been in the game when they should have been. Also, I don’t understand him getting on DDJ. It’s not like he duffed something like Jacobs did. That was a tough play on the wall that he nearly made – but didn’t.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 19, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

just throwing the guys under the bus again, to avoid taking responsibility

if he didn’t lose the clubhouse last season, he’s fast on his way

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 19, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

he's well on his way to going all hyper-defensive in post-games

and embarrassing himself again this year. I thought you learned from your mistakes last year, Porn Stache.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 19, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

Is this probably because the KC media is notorious for relentless second guessing and abusing managers?

/sarcasm font.

by stuckinstl12 on Apr 19, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're used to being bad

we can take it. But when the manager is the reason for the loss, not so much.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

That’s probably the “oh wow, he’s in over his head” line.

by stuckinstl12 on Apr 19, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand

the illogic. Hillman says he needs to get Soria some work because he hasn’t had any lately. But, he also says that he didn’t want to get him “up and down” more than once. WTF? Why the hell not? I mean let’s be serious here. Is he a professional pitcher or what? He ought to be able to handle 2 innings EVERY time they use him.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 19, 2009 9:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

especially

if he’s only going to be used once a week.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Apr 19, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've read on this beloved site that managers only win or lose you 3-5 games per year....

Trey’s already had his allotment, to the negative side. No gifts from this point forward. He’s used up all the goodwill I’m willing to give. Fuck him. A complete dolt could have handled the bullpen better than him today. This is not second guessing—-everybody saw it coming. If he didn’t then shame on him. Don’t blame it on the players you gutless dickhead. Own up.

by Steve Hovley on Apr 19, 2009 10:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Forgive me if this has been posted before - I only just found this.

But, this is hilarious – if only because if I didn’t laugh I’d have to cry.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 19, 2009 10:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All the pitchers should have the conversation with him

Farnsworth 0-3
Royals 7-5

Trey and Farnsworth have adversely affected 25% of our games. You may as well throw 40 losses on him at this pace.

Well you could argue for more since it was Hillman that decided on HoRam being in the rotation. So that is 4 on Hillman. Good god…

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll actually take 40 losses

Or winning 7/12 of our remaining games.

You say something like, "Is that it?" I know what you`re trying to say. You`re trying to say, "Aww yeah, that`s it." Then you tell me you want some more. Well...I`m not surprised. But I`m quite sleepy.

by lobes on Apr 20, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm assuming the rest of the team can't be perfect.

If Trey and Farnsy can go for 40 losses, the rest of the team will probably be good for 40 as well.

by AxDxMx on Apr 20, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

82 wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Division champs!???? I know what you meant. I’m just too lazy to change to sarcasm fonts.

You say something like, "Is that it?" I know what you`re trying to say. You`re trying to say, "Aww yeah, that`s it." Then you tell me you want some more. Well...I`m not surprised. But I`m quite sleepy.

by lobes on Apr 20, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm so "drunk" with anger, I might have

You say something like, "Is that it?" I know what you`re trying to say. You`re trying to say, "Aww yeah, that`s it." Then you tell me you want some more. Well...I`m not surprised. But I`m quite sleepy.

by lobes on Apr 20, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I need a drink.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 19, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just 1?

I need a keg.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right

I’ll see your keg and raise you about 50 of these.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 19, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think after a few of those and my keg

I would start making a few decisions worthy of Trey Hillman.

Every time somone does something obviously stupid, we need to say that they just “pulled a Hillman”.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perfect.

This is pretty much exactly where I stand on every issue.

I will add one more thing, though:

If he brought Mahay in to retire Hamilton, Andruw, Blalock, then to go to Soria, I’d be fine with that too. I’d prefer to go Cruz for 7 and 8 and then Soria, but Cruz-Mahay-Soria would have worked fine for me, as well. Honest.

Even after Mahay couldn’t get Andruw or Blalock out (albeit, Blalock being safe was entirely on Jacobs’ botch of a little league-level play), if you bring in Soria at that point everything hsould be OK. Soria could come in, get a necessary GIDP, or just strike everybody out in a Greinke-type fashion.

Soria getting 6 outs is OK. I promise.

by rockchalk on Apr 19, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jesus Can't Hit

A curve or pick the right reliever.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Apr 20, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and by Roger Dorn

I of course mean Eddie Harris.

d’oh.

by SSmanque on Apr 20, 2009 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what I don't understand

The situation is the bottom of the 8th, 2 outs, tying run at 2nd.

You have 2 pitchers to chose from (well, actually, more than that, but it comes down to two choices):

Jamey Wright, while a decent pitcher, was a non-roster invitee to spring training on a minor league contract. He’s a groundball pitcher with a low-K rate. The Royals infield defense was already “questionable” with Teahen at 3rd, Callapso at 2nd and Jacobs at 1B.

All Star closer Joakim Soria. Hasn’t pitched in about a week due to lack of save opportunities. During the offseason you mentioned how you wanted to use him for more 4-5-6 out saves. That very morning, the local paper quoted you as saying that you were going to try to get him work today.

You go with option 1 and don’t even have Soria warming up. Amazing. The only thing that would’ve been more amazing in this game would’ve been to see Bloomquist come in to pitch the 9th before Soria.

(And before all of this happened, I was going to commend Trey for his handling of the bullpen — he didn’t immediately go to Farnsworth in the 7th or 8th like he would of at the start of the season. (Although the move to Ron “Not a Lefty Specialist” Mahay seemed to be directly as a result of fan criticism from the opener))

by Top Ramen on Apr 19, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

exactly the point I’ve been making. The issue here was the 8th not the 9th. I was in rehearsal so I was watching the game cast on my phone. When Mahay opened the 8th I scratched my head. I saw that there was a pitching change, I thought for sure it was going to be Soria. I about lost my shiz when I saw it was Wright.

Nothing against Wright but he was the, er, wrong guy at that point. We need to shut down their rally and get strike outs. Uh. I’m done. I can’t type any more…. ugh.

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 19, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The issue should start with

why use Cruz in the 7th for just 2 outs? Cruz hasn’t given up anything this year. He’s been goddamn unhittable. WTF! Mahay has been very hittable. Why are we pulling our best closer for a lefty-lefty matchup when Hillman doesn’t believe in lefty specialists?!?!?! THE MIND BOGGLES! To let Mahay come back out once he had made the mistake of pulling Cruz, I didn’t think was so bad, and going to Jamey Wright in the 8th wasn’t bad either, he’s a groundball guy that hasn’t been bad this year. But to come out for the 9th in a tie game with your WORST reliever? Now that just says you have the IQ of a barnyard animal. I would rather see TPJ on the mound in that situation than Kyle Farnsworth.

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cruz is our best non-closer

that should say " Why are we pulling our best non-closer"

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we had our entire bullpen at our disposal....

three really good guys Tejeda, Cruz, and Soria….some meh guys in Wright, Mahay, Waechter…and one absolutely awful guy….

so what do we do? 2 outs from one of the good guys and call it a day. Davies pitched his ass off and gets a ND b/c of our manager.

But hell, it wont effect him, pitchers dont care about whether or not their managers fucks them out of wins on a regular basis.

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 19, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our team ERA without Kyle Farnsworth

2.47

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 19, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Usage of Cruz

Everyone is hung up on Cruz as a 2 inning guy here. The scary thing is that by his reasoning Hillman still hasn’t discovered who his 2nd best reliever is.

Let’s assume he won’t pitch Cruz for more than one inning this time out. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have been ready with the hook to put in Mahay. Was he going to pitching Mahay for 4 outs? I thought he was still looking for at least 1 more out in the 8th as he faced a righty. Otherwise, wouldn’t he have gone to Soria in the 8th with 2 outs. But he didn’t even do that today when it was a higher leverage situation and went to Wright.

by sterlingice on Apr 19, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Whoops forgot the conclusion

Otherwise, why not use Tejada/Farnsworth/Mahay in the 7th, Cruz 8th, and Soria 9th? If he went to Cruz in the 7th and clearly wasn’t thinking of using him 2 innings, he still doesn’t think Cruz is his second best guy.

by sterlingice on Apr 19, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is the mind-blowing/numbing thought of the day

My brain is melting down. I feel like a robot that just had a logic bomb dropped on it, and my brain is about to explode saying “DOES NOT COMPUTE! DOES NOT COMPUTE!”

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

question
Hillman said he wasn’t willing to extend Soria beyond “one up and down” because of a lack of work in recent days.

does this mean he doesn’t want to use Soria, because he hasn’t been used much recently? And he couldn’t use him for more than 3 hitters, because of a lack of work? I think I am going mad….

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Apr 19, 2009 11:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The offense

They scored too many damn runs on Friday. Had they held back, we could have gotten Soria a save.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 19, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I blame Greinke also.

If he hadn’t been so good Saturday night, Soria could have gotten work then, and Trey might have used him again today. Zack’s brilliance and the offense on Friday made Trey repress all his nervous managerial moves until today. Once Trey gets a chance to think about it, he’ll chuck Zack and the offense under the bus also. They made him wait too long to get all his “percentages working” and caused all the havoc today.

by hunter s. royal on Apr 19, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Damn straight

The Greinke contract, not the Farnsworth contract, is the biggest mistake of the offseason~!

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by devil_fingers on Apr 19, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats NYroyal's take on managers....

which i mostly agree with…just sucks that we have one of 3 or 4 complete dumbshit numbskulls….

this team has at least two more wins with buddy bell as the manager

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Apr 19, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't go that far

I hated Buddy Bell for his as bad as Trey Hillman decisions. They just weren’t with the bullpen, so they may not have been as noticeable on a daily basis.

And if Trey is no worse than 90% of the other managers, that means that 90% are at his level. Leaving just a few good ones. I would argue that it is the way you characterized it, with just 3 or 4 complete morons, probably 25 average guys, 3-4 really good.

by AxDxMx on Apr 20, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know if it’s fair to can a guy in his first year….but I think if Trey keeps showing the same negative tendencies throughout this year, those voices may become louder. As long as the team keeps improving, however, those voices will likely be in the minority.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 19, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you serious?

This is his second full year, and he is repeating mistakes he made his first year.

Or am I crazy?

by AxDxMx on Apr 19, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i’m agreeing with you….i think it’ll be more legit to call for his removal this year—-he’s obviously not off to a good start. but it’ll be tough for dayton to pull the trigger if the team stays competitive.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 19, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true dat.

he said something today about how “for us to get where we want to be, Kyle Farnsworth has to pitch well.” It’s like he thinks Farnsy HAS to be the vital cog in the bullpen….when in reality, it’s Cruz who is already capable of doing the job that he seemingly desires for Farnsy.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 19, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Where does he want to be?

In a trash dumpster with other bums looking for scraps of food?

by AxDxMx on Apr 20, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're forgetting the other problem: switching roles this far along in the season could lead to...

(wait for it)

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by devil_fingers on Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

CONFUSION IN THE CLUBHOUSE

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by devil_fingers on Apr 20, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why switch roles?

We already have the league’s # 1 “soul-crushing gopher ball” specialist. And he’s locked up for 2010, too!

by Black and Gold on Apr 20, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trey's just keeping the guys on their toes

He doesn’t want them getting complacent in first place with an off-day coming up.

by Top Ramen on Apr 20, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have an answer for all of you....

Everyone is asking WHY Hillman took out Cruz in the 8th, which was the KEY screw up in my view. Why bring in Mahay?

The answer is as simple, and yes, as STUPID, as this: because Mahay hadn’t yet pitched in the series.

Hillman is so clueless about his bullpen that in order to keep everyone happy, he felt it was a GREAT time to bring in Mahay, the game situation be damned. And why? Well, because he hasn’t pitched yet in the series, and oh yes, because Hamilton’s a lefty. (Who cares that Hamilton hasn’t hit any of our righties all series and Hillman doesn’t use situational lefties nudge, nudge.

And he couldn’t bring in Soria yet. Why? Well, and you better get used to this, Hillman doesn’t believe Soria can come in the game unless it’s the 9th inning. He has to start the inning and get exactly three outs.

Otherwise, it’s just gets too complicated for poor Trey to figure out.

I feel really sorry for Farnsworth, looking at that picture. But the thing is, Hillman shouldn’t be running him out there. I know Farnsworth wants to do bettter; he wants to succeed and prove he can still get guys out. But right now, he needs to build confidence in non-clutch situations and build from there.

by david.lowe on Apr 20, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If he weren't such a jerk, by all accounts I've read

I’d feel for Farnsworth. It’s not his fault he’s badly misused. It’s not like he’s going to go to the manager and say “Trey, don’t use me here- even I know I shouldn’t be pitching this situation”. It’s not like he’s intentionally giving up homers- he just can’t help it. And that picture of him in the title. That just evokes pity more than anything.

by sterlingice on Apr 20, 2009 12:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it's from when he found out the Yankees had traded him to the TIgers...

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by devil_fingers on Apr 20, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way . . .

I can’t bear to watch the replay, so would someone please tell me if Farnsworth landed on his heel or his toe on the last pitch? Thanks.

by Black and Gold on Apr 20, 2009 12:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Does it matter?

The day he supposedly was landing on his toe and “fixed” his problem, the hitters were having massive issues with the way the shadows were falling at the K in mid-afternoon. So he got 3 Ks when the hitters couldn’t clearly see what was coming. I imagine it was like trying to hit a 120 MPH fastball.

by AxDxMx on Apr 20, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

I was hoping that the correct answer was that he landed on the waiver wire.

by Black and Gold on Apr 20, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, we paid too much for him, and I bet David Glass would throw a shit fit

if we put him out with the trash in the morning. Ain’t gonna happen.

by AxDxMx on Apr 20, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cruz Should Have

Stayed in the game. Period. Mahay’s platoon splits are insignifigant, particularly when Cruz is pitching like he was. Defensive breakdown or not, Mahay lost this game for us, and it wasn’t his fault. Trey is to blame.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Apr 20, 2009 1:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ugh.

Anyone know when Bale is supposed to be game ready?

by jsolo on Apr 20, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like the sympathy towards Farnsworth, however illogical

Lots of people suck at their jobs, and incompetent management puts them in position to fail again or again. That does not absolve them of their incompetence. At some point, he has to realize, no matter how hard you throw, if you throw it down the middle of the plate it’s going to be crushed.

Yes, we have lost four games so far due to HoRam and Farnsworth. Neither of those men should be in the situations, because we simply have better options; however, neither man is going anywhere in the meantime. HoRam will continue to start until MLB’s arbitrary date for club control occurs, and Farns will continue to work until he is beaten to death by the Royal Triumvirate (which I will forever refer to our top three as. You may also call Trey Hillman and Farnsworth, Brutus and Cassius, if it pleases you.).

I like this as a metaphorical representation of today’s game. Trey watches as the chaos he created unfolds, and then puts in Farnsworth to deal the final blow to a dying man.
Julius Caesar’s Assassination, done HBO style

Oh, by the way in case no one’s mentioned it. Our manager sucks, and we are all doomed.

You say something like, "Is that it?" I know what you`re trying to say. You`re trying to say, "Aww yeah, that`s it." Then you tell me you want some more. Well...I`m not surprised. But I`m quite sleepy.

by lobes on Apr 20, 2009 1:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In a lot of ways, Hillman is reminding me of Herm.

Making stupid mistakes, putting the wrong people in the wrong situations, then blaming it on the players when it all blows up in his face.

I think I’m going to make a call to the Royals front office tomorrow, saying that I would love to be the next manager.

by rockchalk on Apr 20, 2009 2:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hillman said he never considered using All-Star closer Joakim Soria instead of Farnsworth to start the ninth inning because it was a tie game.

"Not on the road," Hillman said. "At home, yes. But not on the road. Just simply because the percentages are against you in that situation."

I know others have commented on this, but I wanted to throw in my two cents. That’s quite possibly the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard a manager say. What “percentage” is against the Royals in that situation? That is breathtakingly idiotic.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 20, 2009 9:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think I agree with you, but

his argument that Soria couldn’t go “more than one up and down” because he hadn’t pitched in a week is in close competition for the dumbest thing a manager has ever said. If Soria goes another week without pitching, will he be forced to retire?

by stuckinstl12 on Apr 20, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Worst thing I've ever heard a manager say

Nah……the worst thing ever said was, “My belief is that a double is much better than a home run. When a guy hits a double, you have to pitch from the stretch.” —-Royals manager Tony Muser during his reign of terror

by RoyalsFan on Apr 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only Royals managers think, say or do stupid things like Muser, Bell and Hillman

Other managers are smart and understand the true value of baseball events and players and make the right pitching moves.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Apr 20, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

11. Pop Fisher (The Natural)

Her dad:

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 20, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know

It really doesn’t matter in exactly what order Hillman used Cruz, Mahay, Wright, Soria, or any other competent relief pitcher. Each of them would have given us a decent chance to get Texas batters out and win the game, and hey, occasionally our good pitchers get hit and we lose. Not very often, though.

The problem is that Losing Pitcher Farnsworth is not a competent relief pitcher. He always gets hit and we lose. David Glass, as a professional business executive, certainly understands the concept of the “sunk cost.” Fartsy is one of those.

At this point what you do is put him on the DL with an enlarged testicle and then send him to Omaha for rehab to see if 20 or 30 Triple A innings might get him back in some kind of groove and make him replacement level again.

I don’t feel sorry for him, either. He took the money, he can take the boos if he doesn’t earn it. I would feel sorry for a minimum-wage guy, a career AAAA player or a young guy getting his first chances, somebody we all know is in over his head, who got shelled repeatedly. I can feel some sympathy for HoRam (not much for Sir Sid, who blew his career by always being out of shape.) I wouldn’t boo Jimmy Gobble, especially not the way he was misused last year.

But Losing Pitcher is well known to be the Uzbekistan of ballplayers, a wild uncivilized violent disease-ridden sinkhole for dollars with a high illiteracy rate.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Apr 20, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have just a few things to say.

I wasn’t able to add my thoughts on the game thread because I had internet problems, but I was watching the game. I was cussing and stomping around my house long before Farnsworth gave up that bomb to claim his third, and most dramatic, loss. I immediately threw my television remote across the house and into the kitchen breaking a glass when I saw Farnsworth throwing in the bullpen. Why? I don’t know, fuck. Maybe because I understand that when you match up power pitching against power hitters, THE HITTERS DO THIS MAGIC TRICK WHERE THEY TURN THE FUCKING BASEBALL INTO A FUCKING SOUVENIR.

Not only should Farnsworth not have been in that inning, in that situation, facing the heart of that order, he shouldn’t have made an appearance in the entire series (except maybe in the 12-3 rout). He simply does not match up well with anyone in that line up. If Kyle did somehow manage to get past Young, did Hillman really think he was going to get Hamilton? Josh Hamilton was salivating at the chance to get in the batter’s box against Farns, especially with his slump that is going to inevitably end soon. What in God’s holy name was going through Hillman’s head?

Prior to this utter meltdown, I was on the fence as to whether I approved of Trey Hillman; that little dilemma is no longer on my list of problems to solve. I am not going to make any rash decisions at this point, but if something so ridiculous happens again, I assure you I will NOT purchase tickets until that man is fired.

What we witnessed on Sunday is unquestionably reprehensible. If anything like this happens again, we Royals fans cannot be soft. I will personally start a fucking riot.

by FretFriendly on Apr 21, 2009 3:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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