Destiny, or how I reconcile The Farnsworth Principle
I wanted to write this after game 1 after reading Hillman's defense of Farnsworth because his comment illustrated perfectly the difference between performance analysts and scouts. Unfortunately, I have another opportunity to write about it today, following an equally heartbreaking and damaging loss.
Recall Hillman's (approximate) quote after Thome's HR on opening day: The problem wasn't the pitch, the problem was the location. Well, we all pretty much agreed that that analysis was pretty much worthless, which is fine. Hillman has zero obligation to criticize his players or share his unvarnished thoughts to the media. In fact, it's counterproductive. It does no good to rip on players in the media. But what has made the whole Farnsworth signing and subsequent conflagrations so frustrating is just how damn predictable it has been.
My point: Most of us reading and posting on this website are performance analysts out of necessity (we have the tools to analyze stats, but very few of us have the tools to scout), and though we deny it, we view PECOTA (or CHONE or MARCEL etc) as destiny. We all know in our core that Kyle Farnsworth will always be flammable because that's what he's almost always been. On the other hand, the Royals braintrust are scouts and as such they don't believe that projections are destiny or that past performance guarantees future results. They believe that with coaching and with patience players with tools can be turned into players with skills.
Sometimes this approach works beautifully: The Gil Meche signing was viewed as an abomination by any performance analyst worth his pocket protector. The trade for Kyle Davies was widely viewed as a huge disappointment based mainly on Davies' peripherals as a Brave. Those two pitchers are now cost-effective parts of this team's cornerstone for the next three years and they never would have been acquired by a less tools-savvy organization.
Sometimes it works poorly: Joey Gathright was a bust (although it's important to note that JP Howell seems to be a fungible commodity at this point). Jose Guillen is vastly overpaid. And of course, Farnsworth is proving to be what he's always been, combustible.
Anyway, that quote above by Hillman is incredibly instructive. Baseball Men (BM) will say that if only Farnsworth would locate his pitches better, he would be a dominant pitcher. And that's certainly true. BM argue that Farnsworth can be taught to locate better either by landing on his toe or by clearing his hips or rotating his shoulder or whatever. And maybe they're right. Maybe there is some mechanical fix that can turn Farnsworth into something more than he's been for the last 5 years. (Incidentally, this is also the defense for Farnsworth's usage. The Royals think that Farnsworth can be a dominant reliever so of course it makes sense to use him in game-critical situations.) But from where I sit PECOTA is destiny. Farnsworth can't locate better. He simply can't. He is what he's always been. And that it seems so obvious from the outside looking in makes the whole deal triply frustrating.
The Royals under Dayton Moore will continue to make these kinds of mistakes. That's the cost of doing business in this way. Farnsworth, Guillen and Jacobs are the cost of Meche, Davies and Callaspo. Maybe it's worth it. Today it doesn't feel like it.
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If ifs and buts were candy and nuts
We’d all have a Merry Christmas. I’m sick of people talking about what Farnsworthless would be “if”. How about this – Trey would be smart “if” he started learning from statistics.
Time we started dealing in what is, not would could be.
Russ Gload = Doug Mientiewicz....without the pop
The difference between the guys you mentioned (Meche/Davies/etc.)....
and Farnsy is age/potential room for growth. By the time you get to age 33, it’s tough to change your stripes. I don’t have any official data or stats, but the number of players who have “found it” after age 33 (non-steroids division) is probably slim.
I can see taking on a project with tools if he’s young…..not so much when he’s on the downward trend in his career path.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 19, 2009 9:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and that project comes at around the minimum
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 19, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
+2
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Apr 20, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course...
That’s right, but I’m talking here about process. You probably won’t find any historical stats that support the Farnsworth signing, but that’s precisely the point, and why the signing and subsequent usage are so aggravating. The numbers are destiny as far as I’m (and you’re) concerned, but the Royals don’t view it that way.
by billexgordler on Apr 19, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m not against the Royals’ process….I’m saying it’s not a good process to use on a 33-year old.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 19, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
hopefully they learn before too much more damage is done.
by billexgordler on Apr 19, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
well, the Guillen signing clearly taught them to avoid overpaying overrated veterans
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 20, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, just like the Thome Farnsdebacle clearly taught Hillman when NOT to use him
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 20, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
There it is, folks! The snarky one-liner, right on cue!!
Moore was 1-2 buying big ticket FAs before Farnsworth. He nailed Meche. He missed on Guillen. Which lesson was he supposed to learn again? Only overpay for FAs if it works. Got it. Thanks.
by billexgordler on Apr 20, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So the solution is clear
Pump Farnsy so full of steroids, he can’t see straight.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 20, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
was the Davies trade really viewed as a disappointnent?
I thought that while most people weren’t that excited about Davies (and while he’s been good lately, let’s not go nuts after 1 month +2 very good starts +1 okayish start today) himself, that as a “project” he wasn’t a bad risk for a couple of months of an ageing, overrated reliever like Dotel
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.
Yes
As I recall, most were not sanguine about Davies’ prospects and preferred Lillibridge or someone else. It’s a difference of degree, but not of kind.
by billexgordler on Apr 19, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I never saw Dotel as all that valuable in the first place
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by Matt Klaassen on Apr 19, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Which makes getting Davies that much more of a coup
I’m only saying that the process that led Moore to trade his chip for Davies is the same process that led him to sign Farnsworth.
by billexgordler on Apr 19, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed...
hopefully they learn from this before too much more damage is done.
by billexgordler on Apr 19, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Davies-Dotel trade thread
http://www.royalsreview.com/2007/7/31/102924/965
I seemed to give my slight approval, although I thought Davies-for-Dotel straight up wasn’t a fair deal. In retrospect, I’m not sure why I thought Dotel had that much value.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 20, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably because Dotel
was one of the more solid relievers that the Royals had had for quite some time. (that was my opinion at the time, anyway)
Thanks to Farnsworth, my wife...
is very impressed with my self-proclaimed psychic abilities. When he came into the game, against the heart of the Rangers’ murderer’s row of power, IN TEXAS, I was literally yelling. She asked why, and I said because we’re about to witness a walk-off homer, guaranteed.
30 seconds later, after just two pitches, after my prediction quickly transformed into reality, I explained to my wife, who doesn’t care and knows very little about the team (but does care for my sanity), that that guy is now responsible for three out of our five losses. Our conversation then went like this:
wife: well surely he won’t be with the team much longer at this rate.
me: it’s not that simple, they’re paying him $4.5 million a year to do that.
wife: What?! Well at least is his contract almost done?
me: they JUST signed him. Two-year deal.
wife: WHAAA?!
It took two pitches and that exchange for someone with very little knowledge of the league, the team, or the player, to recognize what a horrible transaction the Farnsworth signing is. This is not rocket science. Rearrange the bullpen, make him the mop-up guy, do whatever…just stop letting him lose games.

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