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Around SBN: Lance Berkman Could Have Torn ACL

A Beautiful Afternoon in Cleveland Falls Apart in Ten Minutes

The debate over the bottom of the eighth was fierce in the game thread and I'm still not entirely sure how it all grades out. Let's take a look.

  • Meche begins the inning, faces Ryan Garko: seems like a completely sound decision to me. Meche was rolling and his pitch count was not an immediate issue.
  • Garko doubles after Meche falls behind 2-0.
  • Meche faces Ben Francisco: I'd say this is a 50-50% call, depending on the staff's feel for how much Meche's control was slipping, his fatigue, etc. Can't really kill Hillman for this one, especially since the Indians were likely to be giving up an out anyway. Might as well leave a more experienced gloveman in to handle the bunt, if nothing else.
  • Weird bunt single, Garko out at home play transpires. The Royals were given a huge break here, but totally failed to take advantage of it.
  • Meche faces Hafner: questionable. Not 100% bad by any means, but definitely questionable. With the top of the Cleveland lineup coming up, this would be a great time to use Soria in the eighth, even if it means having Cruz or someone else pitch the ninth. Didn't happen of course.
  • Hafner singles.
  • Meche faces Cabrera with two men on. Cabrera is not a good hitter, though the Royals really need a strikeout. Would Cruz or Soria or even (gasp) Farnsworth been a better K option? Maybe, but depending on what you think of Meche at this point, he isn't a horrible option either. Either way, Cabrera grounds to Callaspo, who errs, tying the game.
  • Meche pulled, Mahay to face Sizemore. Treyball's going for the L-L matchup here. Sizemore is a career .239/.332/.395 hitter against lefties in over 900 PAs. Of course, ironically, this is nearly the same situation in which Mahay wasn't brought in to face Jim Thome, which gave us the epic, "Mahay isn't a lefty-specialist" quote/non-answer. So in a weird way, Trey gets to be right: three run homer, ballgame.
  • Meaningless stuff followed.
  • So on Mahay-Sizemore, how you evaluate the decision is based on just what you think of Mahay (supposed to be good, may not be anymore) and how realistic you want to be in your criticism of Treyball. The game was already tied, and Trey has just told us that he isn't a fan of bringing in closers into a tie-game on the road. Much less in the eighth inning. So in his mind, he isn't using Soria until it isn't tied, and he may be thinking Cruz in the ninth. Sure, in our world, we'd probably want our best pitcher facing their best hitter with the game on the line, but that just isn't where the game is right now. (As NYRoyal has pointed out a bazillion times.) However, that still doesn't mean it isn't a wrong decision.

Look, Dayton Moore went all the way to Japan to bring back a completely generic guy. That's the reality of it. He is what he is, and essentially no part of his makeup is innovative or creative. In fact, he may not be preferable to Buddy Bell, who at the very least was beloved by the players and oversaw the Greinke situation with something resembling tenderness. Trey is just a guy. The scary thing is, with this team (good pitching, bad offense) the Royals are going to be in games like this constantly.The Royals are going to be in a lot of games like this over the next 140 games. So, for better or for worse, Trey's going to have a larger influence on this team that if he was managing a more balanced squad.

It's hard to be excited about that.

If it's always going to be 2-1 or 3-2 or something like that in the seventh and eighth inning, then the Royals need three good relief pitchers to win. Right now, they have two, and a lot of question-marks. Well, and dudes like Wright and Tejeda who may move up to shiny roles, or may just keep getting people out when no one's watching.

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Once again (it seems)

We snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson

by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

We lead the league in that.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

They just get PWNED most of the time,

not really blowing it when they should win it. They don’t have a chance most of the time, with the exception of the FLA series this past weekend.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's more what I was referring to

Tho I don’t think a wholesale bullpen cleaning is in order here

by sterlingice on Apr 23, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it's not.

Just the manager, honestly and obviously. You can’t continuously lose with your best players (pitchers, in this case) sitting on their asses, and not being given an opportunity to win the game for you.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent picture in the overflow thread

It helps give serenity on a day when we need it :D

by sterlingice on Apr 23, 2009 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Mahay did get out of the same situation earlier in the week

When he got Josh Hamilton.

Like I said in my wrap up, I still don’t think it was the right move, but I can see what Trey was basing his decision off of.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

This

Look, Dayton Moore went all the way to Japan to bring back a completely generic guy. That’s the reality of it.

Bingo.

The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.

by kcbottom9th on Apr 23, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Me too

Until I can make it happen, I’ll just take solace in pictures like this:

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 23, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, that about sums it up

Who knew Buddy Bell was good with Sushi. I never would have guessed.

by sterlingice on Apr 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still say that

We just saw the last of Mahay for a while. He’s going to get DL’d in favor of someone, probably Joagui on Saturday

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Fine with me.

How long ’til Bale comes back?

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is no reason we couldn't move forward with a shorthanded bullpen

For all intents & purposes, we have 2 starters working out of the pen as it is in Tejada & Wright.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

And, Ramirez...

For whatever he is good for…

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hell, I forgot that he was just relegated to pen duty

So, yea, 3 starters + the inevitable return of bale at somepoint, which may make up to 4 guys that can go 3+ innings if needed

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now I understand Hillman's logic...

If you have so many guys that can pitch 3+ innings, there is NO NEED for Soria!!!

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joakim Soria has pitched once in what, the last 10 days?

While we have been busy losing games 5-4, 6-5, 8-7, 5-2.

Free Joakim Soria.

It’s inexcusable, it’s stupid, and we are pissing our season away because our manager is too afraid to use our best pitcher.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT reply actions  

But, he's right.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe if people keep beating the dead horse...

Our manager will start using our best pitcher when we need him?

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's better to try it that way,

rather than just letting what is happening to continue.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right

I’m sure Trey rushes home ot see what you had to say on RR.

Delusions of Grandeur much?

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, because that's what I meant.

I will continue complaining about the bullpen usage until Trey Hilman shows a willingness to use his best pitchers with the game on the line.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's our right as a fan.

Not that it is likely to matter, and force Trey to do anything about it, but if we put up with this shit, then we can bitch about it.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd.

Maybe we’re seeing a bit of hit on GMDM’s reputation for building good bullpens. Maybe it’s GMDM that’s made the mistake here, and not Trey. Trey’s about 60/40 on the hand that’s been dealt him, but the bullpen just isn’t as good as it’s been the last 2 years. – TL

by timlacy on Apr 23, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

hear hear

The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17

by 306008 on Apr 24, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also, I think I might go to the Friday night game with a huge Free Soria banner

Depending on whether I can get any of my friends to go with me.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Hell, I would go and hold one side of that thing.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saturday I'll be there... I'll make a sign!!

The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17

by 306008 on Apr 24, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

As a Rangers fan...

…who spent the better part of the weekend dealing with Ron Washington making a similar bullpen decision, I feel for all of you. I can understand playing the percentages, and understand that you sign and play lefty specialists so you know what you have later on in the season. It’s pretty early on, so you could even write this off saying that Hillman’s trying to figure out his bullpen.

Nevertheless, going on record with arbitrary (at least in my opinion) rules for bullpen use is not encouraging.

by jwiscarson on Apr 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Other managers

don’t make the mistakes Hillman does. You LIE!

The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.

by kcbottom9th on Apr 23, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should've added...

…after the local media roasted Wash over this move, our closer appeared in the eighth in a subsequent game.

So perhaps I should say that other managers don’t repeatedly make the same mistakes Hillman does.

by jwiscarson on Apr 23, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, all Hillman did was take it upon himself to go on the record as saying

He’s pretty much never using Soria outside of the 9th inning with a lead.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he has

Lookup the gamelogs last year. Soria pitched in the 8th on:

April 15th
May 21st
May 26th
May 31st
August 2nd
August 20th (Blown Save, Loss)

He also pitched multiple innings, not including the 8th on:

July 7th
August 10th
Septmeber 4th

Nowhere near enough, but it happens.

The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.

by kcbottom9th on Apr 23, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yet he went on record in ST saying

that he would like to use Soria in MORE 4 and 5 out save situations.

We haven’t seen that yet. It’s the worst kind of manager. One that contradicts himself.

by AxDxMx on Apr 23, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like a GM and Manager

who brag about OBP awareness

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on Apr 23, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, they are very aware of it sir.

Very.

All snarkiness aside, a few of the guys are doing better it seems.

by AxDxMx on Apr 23, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seems to me if your starter has thrown 110

and he allows someone to reach, let alone three guys, you pull him. If you’re a paint-by-numbers guy that’s pretty much automatic I thought.

Although in this case I was actually not all that upset to see Meche still in there as I was scared Farns was the next guy

*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"

by jackie ballgame on Apr 23, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

that's one thing I actually like about Hillman

He’s had the opportunity to bust out the hook on a starter [Saturday with Greinke and today] and hasn’t.

. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche

by vegasroyals on Apr 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, the question is -

Does he have confidence in his starters… or just no confidence in the bullpen? With Greinke, it was confidence in him, tonight it felt like he just didn’t want to go to the bullpen.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

hard to say

since I didn’t see the game. I guess if he was going to bring in Mahay perhaps he was scared.

. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche

by vegasroyals on Apr 23, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

he did it to Mesche in his last start

didn’t he? no wait that was Hiram my bad… in Texas and you guessed it; the walk-off.

There’s been so much suckage it’s hard to keep them separate they all look the same!

Davies was doing ok, but got the hook, but the consensus is that Trey-sama called on the wrong guy, and we lose.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on Apr 23, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they're

just messing with our heads.

Last year’s theme: keeping guys in the lineup when they suck [TPJ, Gloady]
This year’s theme: bullpen mismanagement

This site practically writes itself!

. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche

by vegasroyals on Apr 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

what's next?

The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17

by 306008 on Apr 24, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

no, we're far from that...

even though we’ve won some….

The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17

by 306008 on Apr 24, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well.....I didn't listen to the game, but i just read the recap...UGH.....

I was hoping to not have to bust out another Treydaddy analysis breakdown.

I’d disagree that Asdrubal Cabrera is not a good hitter……he’s been on fire recently, and I think he’ll be a breakout player in the AL Central this year.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

hmm...

I mean, he was TPJ level last year

by Freneau on Apr 23, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, he was way better than TPJ

but he wasn’t good

He’s got an okay bat for a MI, between .320-.330 woBA. Slighlty below league average.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good news:

Greinke pitches tomorrow night. He doesn’t know how to give up a run. Get one ourselves, and we win, right?

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I can see it now

Greink goes 8 innings scoreless…

In the 9th, he allows a leadoff hit, and is immedietly replaced with Soria.

Soria allows the inherited runner to score, though he preserves the lead.

Greinke goes on to pitch 20 more scoreless innings over his next 3 starts, which would have blown away the record.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yea

People then bitch about Hillman pulling Greinke becuas ehe would have got the record if Hillman didn’t fuck it up

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you seriously not blame Hillman for this?

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

For todays game?

As I’ve posted twice now, I can see what he thought he was thinking and why he went with the move he did, but I do not agree with the move, no.

Do I think that it was grossly mismanaged, to the point of immediately firing the guy? Not really.

Do I think the he is proving himself to be a manager that is more likely to cost his team a game as opposed to win his team a game? Very quickly.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, I can understand that.

I blame it more on Hillman than you, but can see what you are saying.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

And as you can see

I’m more poking fun at the constant 2nd guessing nature of fans than i am defending Trey’s moves.

I truly despise 2nd guessing, especially when it comes in the form of ,“I fucking KNEW as soon as he put Mahay in the game, we lost.” when the person that posted that was standing mute at the time of the move.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not 2nd guessing when people are saying that it's the wrong move at the time....

while I wasnt follow the game thread today, in the other instances, people have been all over him when the wrong decision was made

Fire Hillman

by billybeingbilly on Apr 23, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not claiming I knew it would blow up

Just don’t think it was the best possible move. Maybe not a terrible move, but definitely not the best possible. On the list of bad Trey Hillman moves this year, this ranks about a 3.5/5, with not letting Soria pitch the 9th in Texas a 5/5, etc.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eh.

When Trey continuously does things that are BLATANTLY retarded, it’s hard not to get down on the guy and 2nd guess him…

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see what he was thinking too...

The problem is, he was not thinking the right thing. Really the only difference between this and the Texas game, was at least there was a logical progression of thought that led to this move. It was the wrong thought, but at least it shows some brain activity. Other than that, I have a hard time being positive about this at all.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok

But Greinke hadn’t gone 6 innings w/o allowing a baserunner either.

You could make the arrument that Meche was better over innings 2-7 than Greinke was in innings 3-8 in Texas.

I wasn’t insinuating that the situations were exact, but they are definitely comparable.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meche wasn't exactly 0-2 on every hitter...

My thing is, okay, let him start the 8th – fine. But he should never have been in the position to lose that game, and Soria has to be hot behind him ready to come in. Or Cruz. Anything else just doesn’t make sense.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

How would you feel about Tejeda coming in instead of Cruz? Everyone keeps pounding home the point about Cruz coming in, but why not Tejeda?

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tejeda is pretty wild

Not sure how I feel about bringing him in with runners on base, but yeah, at this point he definitely is a better option than farnsworth / mahay / horacio

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think your last 2 comments sum up my feelings perfectly

“Do I think that it was grossly mismanaged, to the point of immediately firing the guy? Not really.

Do I think the he is proving himself to be a manager that is more likely to cost his team a game as opposed to win his team a game? Very quickly."

This game wasn’t a game that Hillman necessarily cost us. I would have gone Cruz 8 Soria 9 and since we already know we lost with what he did, my options are better. But that’s perfect hindsight.

He’s just been too involved in too many games that are questionable and too many decisions that have gone the other direction that there’s cause for concern.

by sterlingice on Apr 23, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said

and thanks.

ME personally, I would have managed it the same way, Juan in the 8th, Soria in the 9th.

But, as I’ve been adamant about, I had NO problem leaving Meche in.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would have brought in Tejeda instead of Cruz seeing as how he has a 0.00 ERA with 10 strikeouts in 4.2 innings.

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll take the guy with the longer proven track record at filthy in Cruz

by sterlingice on Apr 23, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you wouldnt take the guy with 10 strikeouts in 4.2 innings with a 0.00 ERA over the guy with 5 strikeouts in 6.2 innings with a 2.70 ERA?

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

David Ortiz is hitting worse than Alberto Callaspo this far into the season

if you could choose between one of the two to pinch hit, who would it be?

see what I mean?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no problems either

with letting Meche start the 8th. But when your starter is on the ropes in a 1 run game and gives up consecutive hits you take him out.

When you shut down options in the bullpen in shut down situation, use them.

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to invent the "Manage-o-matic"

It’ll have settings on it like
1. “Number of pitches starter can have in order to enter the next inning after the 6th”. Set at 90 for all but Meche and Greinke. 95 for the other two.
2. “Number of base runners starter can allow before being pulled for reliever”. 1
3. “If upcoming batter is left-handed, do we bring in loogy or best pitcher?” Best pitcher unless batter has extremely high platoon gap.
4. “How many outs can a ‘closer’ get?”. 4, maybe 5.
5. “What positions/players do we pull for defensive purposes?” Jacobs and Callaspo. Butler and Bloomquist replace.

Based on this, the manage-o-matic would have allowed Meche to start the 8th, pulled him after the solid double. Bloomquist would have been at 2nd. It would have replaced Meche with which probably would have been Cruz. Who knows if it would have turned out better, but at least it would be making sound decisions. And we could set it from the GMs office and take the"WTF!?!?!?!" aspect out of the moves.

by Big Guy on Apr 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Excellent summary

of just plain common sense.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Apr 23, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm... that's exactly how i would set it

i’ve always advocated a quick pull of starters giving up lead-off hits in late innings

by marbotty on Apr 24, 2009 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

What a disappointing game

Bases loaded no outs failure all the way around. This series was full of bad luck starting with Wednesdays GIDP mess to this job.

Trey’s biggest mistake IMO is his loyalty to the so called “veteran guys”. Garko had good swings on Gil all day and while Gil was rollin he should’ve had some hard thrower up in the pen with Mahay. As soon as Garko hits that ball hard he should’ve yanked Gil but no he visits him lets him face Hafner and Cabrera and digs the bullpen a deeper hole.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Apr 23, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Matt Stairs ruins Bush no hitter

8th inning 1 out home run, pinch hit

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Tejeda anyone?

Everyone was talking about bringing in Cruz over Mahay earlier, but what about Tejeda??? The man has been lights out. I say Tejeda would have been an even better choice over Cruz.

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Not quite lights out.

3 run shot Monday night after he came in for Sir Sid…

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

are u sure?

I’m looking at his stat line on foxsports.com right now and he has a 0.00 ERA.

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

with 10 strikeouts in 4.2 innings I might add. Seriously.

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not saying he hasn't been good.

Just not “lights out”. Greinke is the only “lights out” guy we have. THat anybody has, actually.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is a 0.00 ERA NOT lights out with 10 strikeouts in 4.2 innings?

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

See below...

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then those 2 must have scored on the 3 run HR...

I wasn’t watching. I was on the golf course, and following on my phone, and saw Tejeda came in, the 3 run HR. Musta missed something. Sorry, guys..

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

they'd be Tejedas runs then....

someone got them out of the inning with no damage….Horam maybe?

Fire Hillman

by billybeingbilly on Apr 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said, not sure...

Was just following on my phone…

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah, ponson gave up a 3 run bomb

then tejeda came in

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m just saying Tejeda has been amazing so far. Even better than Cruz. And Wright has been just as good. So either of those choices would have been better than Cruz.

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why make the argument?

The situation was an hour ago. Tejada > Mahay. Cruz > Mahay. Point = moot

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey guys, look at it this way

If Detroit and Chicago both lose tonight, then we’re still in first place! BYAAAAAAH!

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Considering we can barely go .500 with 3 of our starting pitchers being basically lights out

I don’t think that bodes well for the rest of the season.

Want to believe so bad <33

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

how's that?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey now!

"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp

by grantfunk on Apr 23, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said, and this should sum up every conversation, as far as I am concerned.

Good job, labba.

KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)

by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks KC -

Once we got X and I saw the way Gil was pitching I thought this was going to be a good day. Now we lost Gonzo and Hillman left another turd on our faces.

Bad day.

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with Labba

It’s almost like Trey’s learning curve with his bullpen is like a kid who is a little slow. He stick his hand out to touch the stove (putting Farnsworth in a high-leverage situation), then “Ow, that hurts.” But he doesn’t learn the first time. So he does it again. Same result. NOW it’s starting to get through. Same with Mahay. It’s like it takes him at least two consecutive experiences with negative reinforcement before he notes it and makes a change in his thinking.

I suppose a little of that is justifiable, especially since it’s a partially new bullpen he’s dealing with this year. Still, my biggest problem with him is his apparent stubborness or outright refusal to use his best bullpen pitchers as often as possible, and to use them in the high-leverage situations where the benefit of using them is at its highest. I just hope it doesn’t cost the Royals too many games before he gets things figured out. And bottom line, even once he DOES get things figured out, it’s just going to be figuring out how almost every other MLB manager handles things.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 23, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe I basically made that point already

Quoting myself…

“Do I think that it was grossly mismanaged, to the point of immediately firing the guy? Not really.

Do I think the he is proving himself to be a manager that is more likely to cost his team a game as opposed to win his team a game? Very quickly."

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Soooo

Just so I can try and understay Trey Hillman, can anyone please please try and tell me or figure out why Mahay was chosen over some of the better relievers? I mean…why Mahay? There has to be logic in there somewhere.

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Why did you give up on the cello?

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on Apr 23, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

because

Mahay had gotten out of a similar situation against a similarily tough lefty (josh hamilton) earlier in the week,

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anybody here understands him either

and don’t hurt yourself trying to wrap your mind around this to figure out his logic. Between the all of the bullpen choices, I doubt that Mahay was anybody’s top pick for this situation today (at least anybody not named “Trey Hillman”). Mahay is, at best, the 4th option – behind Cruz, Tejada, and Soria (in no particular order).

Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson

by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alright, I'm out

Sorry for complaining so much guys, but this season has been incredibly frustrating for me. It’s not going to get any easier against the Tigers, but, we have Zaq and a prayer.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Like I said before

I'm tired of the bullpen blowing all these games, move Greinke back to the bullpen

by Top Ramen on Apr 23, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

seriously?

Are you serious about moving Greinke back to the bullpen? Or am I missing some sarcasm?

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are missing something

that much is certain

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

thx man. yeah i just joined about an hour ago.

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

FYI eXcell1st...

everything Devil_Fingers types that doesn’t include stats is either smart-ass or sarcasm, though he refuses to use the font.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

let me rephrase that

everyhthing that is less than a paragraph is smart-ass/sarcasm

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are

so wrong

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t have a headache today until the Royals lost…

by eXCell1st on Apr 23, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

one of my favorite movies

first time i saw it though i was confused by how quickly the movie changed – the first half was definitely brilliant, the second half special in it’s own way

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

I saw it in the theatre when I was in HS. We had basically forgotten that it was a vampire movie by the time the vampires had shoen up. It was classic in the way that it was essentially 2 genres in one.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

one of the more unique mainstream movies ever made

thats for sure

i really enjoyed the firstpart… the second was just like… what the hell?

seemed a little self0indulgent

by Freneau on Apr 23, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Robert Rodriguez directed it I think, but he wrote it with Tarantino.

Really neat movie, definitely worth a rental.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

No snakes

Vampires…Tarantino & RR Co-wrote it if memory serves…

You really need to see it. Clooney is awesome in his role, as is basically everyone in the movie. Really well acted for a ‘horror’ movie

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

but its not really horror right?

its just a very early expression of cardboard kitchiness/homages to stuff fad

by Freneau on Apr 24, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Liked Deathproof better

but if you like Dusk till Dawn you should watch the documentary Full Tilt Boogie about it, it’s very interesting

by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Apr 24, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

also -

if you want to reply directly to a post, hit the reply link between the date/time and ‘actions’. If you type a comment in the ‘type a comment’ section at the bottom of the thread you will start a new topic rather than reply directly to the comment you intended.

welcome!

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

TREY IS AN IDIOT

I cant freakin believe Trey lost another game for us again! Who is this guy? Unbelieveable! When Mayhay came out dragging his gas can behind him Ramirez was also warming up! WTF? You have a tie game in the 9th and you warm up those two losers? Mayhay has been garbage this year and so has Ramirez. You have to maintain the lead at that point. Why is Hillman in such a hurry to end games lately? Does he have to get back to his hotel so he can rent horse porn ? This guy is an absolute moron. FIRE HIM DAYTON!!!!!! PLEASE!

by deanerjeffrey on Apr 23, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I have a really great idea!!!!!!!!!

Let’s start Soria every game, but just for one inning.

The second will be Cruz’s inning, but just one.

At that point, Trey can make his screwup, and throw either Mahay, Farnsworth, or HoRam.

THEN – we put it our starter. He pitches the rest of the game.

Benefits:
1. No decisions required!
2. All the sucky stuff happens in the 3rd inning, where we have time to recover!
3. Soria is never underutilized again!
4. Everyone who wants Soria to start is happy- he starts EVERY game!
5. Hillman can leave after the 3rd inning!

I mean, cmon guys, its FOOLPROOF.

Russ Gload = Doug Mientiewicz....without the pop

by Dubya on Apr 23, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Hilarious idea

We’d be the only club bragging about our guy getting 20 saves.

by Soria's Unibrow on Apr 24, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

so Cruz would get about 90 wins?

The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17

by 306008 on Apr 24, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trey did exzctly what he...

…is supposed to do here, and then gets ripped. I mean, Soria seems to be the answer for everything here. Give me a break.

You can rip Trey for the Thome-Farnsworth thing, although I say he’s just trying to figure out what he has in Farnsy at that point.

It’s ONE game. Get over it, folks. – TL

by timlacy on Apr 23, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

yeah it's been 1 game 3 or 4 times now

Hoping your inferior relievers will not give up runs so you can save your good ones is not a great strategy

by PopeSoria on Apr 24, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fail

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on Apr 24, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

When is John Bale coming back???

Looks like we need him, he didn’t do well in the rotation but was perfect in relief. Goodness I miss him right now!

by RoyalFanDan on Apr 24, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions  

nobody really knows...

hell, mahay was a mystery all spring

by Freneau on Apr 24, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

he's been ready for weeks

the right situation to activate and use him just hasn’t come up

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on Apr 24, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

At least it was yimmyyobble as the LOOGY.

He would have walked the LH and let the RH hit…

The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17

by 306008 on Apr 24, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions  

here's what I think personally

If a starting pitcher has worked that hard to carry your team through a game, you do not give him a chance to lose a ballgame. So, if he has a 1 run lead in the 8th with 100+ pitches, he allows the tying runner on base, you get him then. Especially if you have 3 of the best relief pitchers in the AL. That’s my thoughts on the deal. Personally, I thought he looked a little tired and I wouldn’t have sent him out for the 8th.

The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17

by 306008 on Apr 24, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

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