A Beautiful Afternoon in Cleveland Falls Apart in Ten Minutes
The debate over the bottom of the eighth was fierce in the game thread and I'm still not entirely sure how it all grades out. Let's take a look.
- Meche begins the inning, faces Ryan Garko: seems like a completely sound decision to me. Meche was rolling and his pitch count was not an immediate issue.
- Garko doubles after Meche falls behind 2-0.
- Meche faces Ben Francisco: I'd say this is a 50-50% call, depending on the staff's feel for how much Meche's control was slipping, his fatigue, etc. Can't really kill Hillman for this one, especially since the Indians were likely to be giving up an out anyway. Might as well leave a more experienced gloveman in to handle the bunt, if nothing else.
- Weird bunt single, Garko out at home play transpires. The Royals were given a huge break here, but totally failed to take advantage of it.
- Meche faces Hafner: questionable. Not 100% bad by any means, but definitely questionable. With the top of the Cleveland lineup coming up, this would be a great time to use Soria in the eighth, even if it means having Cruz or someone else pitch the ninth. Didn't happen of course.
- Hafner singles.
- Meche faces Cabrera with two men on. Cabrera is not a good hitter, though the Royals really need a strikeout. Would Cruz or Soria or even (gasp) Farnsworth been a better K option? Maybe, but depending on what you think of Meche at this point, he isn't a horrible option either. Either way, Cabrera grounds to Callaspo, who errs, tying the game.
- Meche pulled, Mahay to face Sizemore. Treyball's going for the L-L matchup here. Sizemore is a career .239/.332/.395 hitter against lefties in over 900 PAs. Of course, ironically, this is nearly the same situation in which Mahay wasn't brought in to face Jim Thome, which gave us the epic, "Mahay isn't a lefty-specialist" quote/non-answer. So in a weird way, Trey gets to be right: three run homer, ballgame.
- Meaningless stuff followed.
- So on Mahay-Sizemore, how you evaluate the decision is based on just what you think of Mahay (supposed to be good, may not be anymore) and how realistic you want to be in your criticism of Treyball. The game was already tied, and Trey has just told us that he isn't a fan of bringing in closers into a tie-game on the road. Much less in the eighth inning. So in his mind, he isn't using Soria until it isn't tied, and he may be thinking Cruz in the ninth. Sure, in our world, we'd probably want our best pitcher facing their best hitter with the game on the line, but that just isn't where the game is right now. (As NYRoyal has pointed out a bazillion times.) However, that still doesn't mean it isn't a wrong decision.
Look, Dayton Moore went all the way to Japan to bring back a completely generic guy. That's the reality of it. He is what he is, and essentially no part of his makeup is innovative or creative. In fact, he may not be preferable to Buddy Bell, who at the very least was beloved by the players and oversaw the Greinke situation with something resembling tenderness. Trey is just a guy. The scary thing is, with this team (good pitching, bad offense) the Royals are going to be in games like this constantly.The Royals are going to be in a lot of games like this over the next 140 games. So, for better or for worse, Trey's going to have a larger influence on this team that if he was managing a more balanced squad.
It's hard to be excited about that.
If it's always going to be 2-1 or 3-2 or something like that in the seventh and eighth inning, then the Royals need three good relief pitchers to win. Right now, they have two, and a lot of question-marks. Well, and dudes like Wright and Tejeda who may move up to shiny roles, or may just keep getting people out when no one's watching.
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Once again (it seems)
We snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson
by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions
We lead the league in that.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
They just get PWNED most of the time,
not really blowing it when they should win it. They don’t have a chance most of the time, with the exception of the FLA series this past weekend.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That's more what I was referring to
Tho I don’t think a wholesale bullpen cleaning is in order here
No, it's not.
Just the manager, honestly and obviously. You can’t continuously lose with your best players (pitchers, in this case) sitting on their asses, and not being given an opportunity to win the game for you.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent picture in the overflow thread
It helps give serenity on a day when we need it :D
Mahay did get out of the same situation earlier in the week
When he got Josh Hamilton.
Like I said in my wrap up, I still don’t think it was the right move, but I can see what Trey was basing his decision off of.
BOOM! ROASTED!
This
Look, Dayton Moore went all the way to Japan to bring back a completely generic guy. That’s the reality of it.
Bingo.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
he just wanted to see japan on Glass' dime
Fire Hillman
by billybeingbilly on Apr 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That's at the top of my list of countries I'd love to see
So, I understand his thinking
Me too
Until I can make it happen, I’ll just take solace in pictures like this:

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 23, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, that about sums it up
Who knew Buddy Bell was good with Sushi. I never would have guessed.
I still say that
We just saw the last of Mahay for a while. He’s going to get DL’d in favor of someone, probably Joagui on Saturday
BOOM! ROASTED!
Fine with me.
How long ’til Bale comes back?
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no reason we couldn't move forward with a shorthanded bullpen
For all intents & purposes, we have 2 starters working out of the pen as it is in Tejada & Wright.
BOOM! ROASTED!
And, Ramirez...
For whatever he is good for…
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, I forgot that he was just relegated to pen duty
So, yea, 3 starters + the inevitable return of bale at somepoint, which may make up to 4 guys that can go 3+ innings if needed
BOOM! ROASTED!
Now I understand Hillman's logic...
If you have so many guys that can pitch 3+ innings, there is NO NEED for Soria!!!
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Joakim Soria has pitched once in what, the last 10 days?
While we have been busy losing games 5-4, 6-5, 8-7, 5-2.
Free Joakim Soria.
It’s inexcusable, it’s stupid, and we are pissing our season away because our manager is too afraid to use our best pitcher.
realistically speaking
But, he's right.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if people keep beating the dead horse...
Our manager will start using our best pitcher when we need him?
realistically speaking
It's better to try it that way,
rather than just letting what is happening to continue.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
I’m sure Trey rushes home ot see what you had to say on RR.
Delusions of Grandeur much?
BOOM! ROASTED!
Right, because that's what I meant.
I will continue complaining about the bullpen usage until Trey Hilman shows a willingness to use his best pitchers with the game on the line.
realistically speaking
That's our right as a fan.
Not that it is likely to matter, and force Trey to do anything about it, but if we put up with this shit, then we can bitch about it.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That's bull...
You don’t pitch Soria on a day game after a night game when he threw 20 pitches last night. If he hurts his arm, everyone would be screaming that Hillman is an idiot for that. Bottom line is that guys who are being paid lots of money (Mahay/Farns/etc.) are not doing their job.
by RaulDuke on Apr 23, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd.
Maybe we’re seeing a bit of hit on GMDM’s reputation for building good bullpens. Maybe it’s GMDM that’s made the mistake here, and not Trey. Trey’s about 60/40 on the hand that’s been dealt him, but the bullpen just isn’t as good as it’s been the last 2 years. – TL
Uh, it's been pretty good....
Soria – 5IP, 1ER, 8K
Wright – 8IP, 0ER, 4K
Tejeda – 4.2IP, 0ER, 10K
Cruz – 6.2IP, 2ER, 6K
: 24.1IP, 28K, 3ER
I think what you meant to say was, Kyle Farnsworth and Ron Mahay have sucked this year. Coincidentally:
Farnsworth – 4.1IP, 7ER
Mahay – 3.2IP, 5R (4ER)
These are the guys that have done the damage.
Remember, for most of last year it was Soria / Ramirez / Mahay. Nunez was hurt most of the year.
So basically, 4 of our relievers have been phenomenal, and Hillman still has bungled the deployment of them in a way which has caused us to lose multiple games. Either that, or he’s just really, really unlucky. Yeah, okay.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Also, I think I might go to the Friday night game with a huge Free Soria banner
Depending on whether I can get any of my friends to go with me.
realistically speaking
Hell, I would go and hold one side of that thing.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Saturday I'll be there... I'll make a sign!!
The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17
As a Rangers fan...
…who spent the better part of the weekend dealing with Ron Washington making a similar bullpen decision, I feel for all of you. I can understand playing the percentages, and understand that you sign and play lefty specialists so you know what you have later on in the season. It’s pretty early on, so you could even write this off saying that Hillman’s trying to figure out his bullpen.
Nevertheless, going on record with arbitrary (at least in my opinion) rules for bullpen use is not encouraging.
Other managers
don’t make the mistakes Hillman does. You LIE!
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
I should've added...
…after the local media roasted Wash over this move, our closer appeared in the eighth in a subsequent game.
So perhaps I should say that other managers don’t repeatedly make the same mistakes Hillman does.
Yeah, all Hillman did was take it upon himself to go on the record as saying
He’s pretty much never using Soria outside of the 9th inning with a lead.
realistically speaking
But he has
Lookup the gamelogs last year. Soria pitched in the 8th on:
April 15th
May 21st
May 26th
May 31st
August 2nd
August 20th (Blown Save, Loss)
He also pitched multiple innings, not including the 8th on:
July 7th
August 10th
Septmeber 4th
Nowhere near enough, but it happens.
The Allard Baird of incisive internet discourse.
And yet he went on record in ST saying
that he would like to use Soria in MORE 4 and 5 out save situations.
We haven’t seen that yet. It’s the worst kind of manager. One that contradicts himself.
Like a GM and Manager
who brag about OBP awareness
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
Oh, they are very aware of it sir.
Very.
All snarkiness aside, a few of the guys are doing better it seems.
Seems to me if your starter has thrown 110
and he allows someone to reach, let alone three guys, you pull him. If you’re a paint-by-numbers guy that’s pretty much automatic I thought.
Although in this case I was actually not all that upset to see Meche still in there as I was scared Farns was the next guy
*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"
by jackie ballgame on Apr 23, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
that's one thing I actually like about Hillman
He’s had the opportunity to bust out the hook on a starter [Saturday with Greinke and today] and hasn’t.
. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche
Of course, the question is -
Does he have confidence in his starters… or just no confidence in the bullpen? With Greinke, it was confidence in him, tonight it felt like he just didn’t want to go to the bullpen.
realistically speaking
hard to say
since I didn’t see the game. I guess if he was going to bring in Mahay perhaps he was scared.
. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche
he did it to Mesche in his last start
didn’t he? no wait that was Hiram my bad… in Texas and you guessed it; the walk-off.
There’s been so much suckage it’s hard to keep them separate they all look the same!
Davies was doing ok, but got the hook, but the consensus is that Trey-sama called on the wrong guy, and we lose.
Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.
In other news, Dave Bush has no hit the Phillies through 7.
realistically speaking
I think they're
just messing with our heads.
Last year’s theme: keeping guys in the lineup when they suck [TPJ, Gloady]
This year’s theme: bullpen mismanagement
This site practically writes itself!
. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche
what's next?
The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17
no, we're far from that...
even though we’ve won some….
The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17
Well.....I didn't listen to the game, but i just read the recap...UGH.....
I was hoping to not have to bust out another Treydaddy analysis breakdown.
I’d disagree that Asdrubal Cabrera is not a good hitter……he’s been on fire recently, and I think he’ll be a breakout player in the AL Central this year.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions
no, he was way better than TPJ
but he wasn’t good
He’s got an okay bat for a MI, between .320-.330 woBA. Slighlty below league average.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Good news:
Greinke pitches tomorrow night. He doesn’t know how to give up a run. Get one ourselves, and we win, right?
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
I can see it now
Greink goes 8 innings scoreless…
In the 9th, he allows a leadoff hit, and is immedietly replaced with Soria.
Soria allows the inherited runner to score, though he preserves the lead.
Greinke goes on to pitch 20 more scoreless innings over his next 3 starts, which would have blown away the record.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Oh yea
People then bitch about Hillman pulling Greinke becuas ehe would have got the record if Hillman didn’t fuck it up
BOOM! ROASTED!
Do you seriously not blame Hillman for this?
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
For todays game?
As I’ve posted twice now, I can see what he thought he was thinking and why he went with the move he did, but I do not agree with the move, no.
Do I think that it was grossly mismanaged, to the point of immediately firing the guy? Not really.
Do I think the he is proving himself to be a manager that is more likely to cost his team a game as opposed to win his team a game? Very quickly.
BOOM! ROASTED!
OK, I can understand that.
I blame it more on Hillman than you, but can see what you are saying.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And as you can see
I’m more poking fun at the constant 2nd guessing nature of fans than i am defending Trey’s moves.
I truly despise 2nd guessing, especially when it comes in the form of ,“I fucking KNEW as soon as he put Mahay in the game, we lost.” when the person that posted that was standing mute at the time of the move.
BOOM! ROASTED!
it's not 2nd guessing when people are saying that it's the wrong move at the time....
while I wasnt follow the game thread today, in the other instances, people have been all over him when the wrong decision was made
Fire Hillman
by billybeingbilly on Apr 23, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not claiming I knew it would blow up
Just don’t think it was the best possible move. Maybe not a terrible move, but definitely not the best possible. On the list of bad Trey Hillman moves this year, this ranks about a 3.5/5, with not letting Soria pitch the 9th in Texas a 5/5, etc.
realistically speaking
Eh.
When Trey continuously does things that are BLATANTLY retarded, it’s hard not to get down on the guy and 2nd guess him…
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see what he was thinking too...
The problem is, he was not thinking the right thing. Really the only difference between this and the Texas game, was at least there was a logical progression of thought that led to this move. It was the wrong thought, but at least it shows some brain activity. Other than that, I have a hard time being positive about this at all.
realistically speaking
It's silly
that leaving Greink in on Tuesday was the right move, with the tying run on 2nd (I think) in the 9th inning with an also elevated pitch count, but since he was going for the complete game shutout, everybody on thie board was behind it.
So, this board is OK with that, but completely chastises Trey for basically the same move today that didn’t work, and why? because there wasn’t a complete game shutout on the line?
And, even if he brought in Cruz, and he strusk out the next 2 guys, people would still be calling Trey a moron for leaving Meche in that long
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Apr 23, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Whoa, Meche wasn't one out away from ending the game like Greinke.
He fell behind in the count, gave up a smoked double. Fastball velocity was down to around 90mph. Bunt hit, throws ball away, get lucky, they get the out at the plate. Looked like he almost got hurt on the play. Hafner pinch hits – very dangerous left handed hitter – I think if you want to use Mahay, you should use him here with Soria ready if Hafner reaches. Hafner smokes a single, then the error, THEN we pull Meche with the tying run at third and one out, and the lead run at first. I really don’t think it’s comparable.
realistically speaking
by slayor on Apr 23, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ok
But Greinke hadn’t gone 6 innings w/o allowing a baserunner either.
You could make the arrument that Meche was better over innings 2-7 than Greinke was in innings 3-8 in Texas.
I wasn’t insinuating that the situations were exact, but they are definitely comparable.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Meche wasn't exactly 0-2 on every hitter...
My thing is, okay, let him start the 8th – fine. But he should never have been in the position to lose that game, and Soria has to be hot behind him ready to come in. Or Cruz. Anything else just doesn’t make sense.
realistically speaking
How would you feel about Tejeda coming in instead of Cruz? Everyone keeps pounding home the point about Cruz coming in, but why not Tejeda?
Tejeda is pretty wild
Not sure how I feel about bringing him in with runners on base, but yeah, at this point he definitely is a better option than farnsworth / mahay / horacio
realistically speaking
I think your last 2 comments sum up my feelings perfectly
“Do I think that it was grossly mismanaged, to the point of immediately firing the guy? Not really.
Do I think the he is proving himself to be a manager that is more likely to cost his team a game as opposed to win his team a game? Very quickly."
This game wasn’t a game that Hillman necessarily cost us. I would have gone Cruz 8 Soria 9 and since we already know we lost with what he did, my options are better. But that’s perfect hindsight.
He’s just been too involved in too many games that are questionable and too many decisions that have gone the other direction that there’s cause for concern.
Well said
and thanks.
ME personally, I would have managed it the same way, Juan in the 8th, Soria in the 9th.
But, as I’ve been adamant about, I had NO problem leaving Meche in.
BOOM! ROASTED!
I would have brought in Tejeda instead of Cruz seeing as how he has a 0.00 ERA with 10 strikeouts in 4.2 innings.
so you wouldnt take the guy with 10 strikeouts in 4.2 innings with a 0.00 ERA over the guy with 5 strikeouts in 6.2 innings with a 2.70 ERA?
David Ortiz is hitting worse than Alberto Callaspo this far into the season
if you could choose between one of the two to pinch hit, who would it be?
see what I mean?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no problems either
with letting Meche start the 8th. But when your starter is on the ropes in a 1 run game and gives up consecutive hits you take him out.
When you shut down options in the bullpen in shut down situation, use them.
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
I'm going to invent the "Manage-o-matic"
It’ll have settings on it like
1. “Number of pitches starter can have in order to enter the next inning after the 6th”. Set at 90 for all but Meche and Greinke. 95 for the other two.
2. “Number of base runners starter can allow before being pulled for reliever”. 1
3. “If upcoming batter is left-handed, do we bring in loogy or best pitcher?” Best pitcher unless batter has extremely high platoon gap.
4. “How many outs can a ‘closer’ get?”. 4, maybe 5.
5. “What positions/players do we pull for defensive purposes?” Jacobs and Callaspo. Butler and Bloomquist replace.
Based on this, the manage-o-matic would have allowed Meche to start the 8th, pulled him after the solid double. Bloomquist would have been at 2nd. It would have replaced Meche with which probably would have been Cruz. Who knows if it would have turned out better, but at least it would be making sound decisions. And we could set it from the GMs office and take the"WTF!?!?!?!" aspect out of the moves.
by Big Guy on Apr 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Excellent summary
of just plain common sense.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
hmm... that's exactly how i would set it
i’ve always advocated a quick pull of starters giving up lead-off hits in late innings
What a disappointing game
Bases loaded no outs failure all the way around. This series was full of bad luck starting with Wednesdays GIDP mess to this job.
Trey’s biggest mistake IMO is his loyalty to the so called “veteran guys”. Garko had good swings on Gil all day and while Gil was rollin he should’ve had some hard thrower up in the pen with Mahay. As soon as Garko hits that ball hard he should’ve yanked Gil but no he visits him lets him face Hafner and Cabrera and digs the bullpen a deeper hole.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
Matt Stairs ruins Bush no hitter
8th inning 1 out home run, pinch hit
realistically speaking
Tejeda anyone?
Everyone was talking about bringing in Cruz over Mahay earlier, but what about Tejeda??? The man has been lights out. I say Tejeda would have been an even better choice over Cruz.
Not quite lights out.
3 run shot Monday night after he came in for Sir Sid…
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
are u sure?
I’m looking at his stat line on foxsports.com right now and he has a 0.00 ERA.
Not saying he hasn't been good.
Just not “lights out”. Greinke is the only “lights out” guy we have. THat anybody has, actually.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
See below...
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
he didnt give up any runs on monday....
he did walk two though
Fire Hillman
by billybeingbilly on Apr 23, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Then those 2 must have scored on the 3 run HR...
I wasn’t watching. I was on the golf course, and following on my phone, and saw Tejeda came in, the 3 run HR. Musta missed something. Sorry, guys..
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
they'd be Tejedas runs then....
someone got them out of the inning with no damage….Horam maybe?
Fire Hillman
by billybeingbilly on Apr 23, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I said, not sure...
Was just following on my phone…
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
nah, ponson gave up a 3 run bomb
then tejeda came in
realistically speaking
I’m just saying Tejeda has been amazing so far. Even better than Cruz. And Wright has been just as good. So either of those choices would have been better than Cruz.
Why make the argument?
The situation was an hour ago. Tejada > Mahay. Cruz > Mahay. Point = moot
BOOM! ROASTED!
but which Pena starts at SS the rest of the season
since that Mike Aviles thing didn’t really work out
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey guys, look at it this way
If Detroit and Chicago both lose tonight, then we’re still in first place! BYAAAAAAH!
Considering we can barely go .500 with 3 of our starting pitchers being basically lights out
I don’t think that bodes well for the rest of the season.
Want to believe so bad <33
realistically speaking
Generic Anti-Hillman comment
(rec pixies? are you there?)
Farny being Farny.
by JobDDT on Apr 23, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
how's that?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
GoBabies -
Here’s my thought,
In a vacuum, today’s events may not be judged harshly. But when you take into consideration past mistakes in similar situations it is easy to notice a pattern of misjudgement.
You make a good argument that today was not AS egregious as incidents in the past but when viewed as part of a whole it make a pretty compelling case for managerial stupidity.
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Well said, and this should sum up every conversation, as far as I am concerned.
Good job, labba.
KCsince88 - You'd LOVE Todd Reesing, then.
DolfinPhan - Doug Flutie of the future. Mark my words.
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
by Andy Edwards on Apr 23, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks KC -
Once we got X and I saw the way Gil was pitching I thought this was going to be a good day. Now we lost Gonzo and Hillman left another turd on our faces.
Bad day.
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
Agree with Labba
It’s almost like Trey’s learning curve with his bullpen is like a kid who is a little slow. He stick his hand out to touch the stove (putting Farnsworth in a high-leverage situation), then “Ow, that hurts.” But he doesn’t learn the first time. So he does it again. Same result. NOW it’s starting to get through. Same with Mahay. It’s like it takes him at least two consecutive experiences with negative reinforcement before he notes it and makes a change in his thinking.
I suppose a little of that is justifiable, especially since it’s a partially new bullpen he’s dealing with this year. Still, my biggest problem with him is his apparent stubborness or outright refusal to use his best bullpen pitchers as often as possible, and to use them in the high-leverage situations where the benefit of using them is at its highest. I just hope it doesn’t cost the Royals too many games before he gets things figured out. And bottom line, even once he DOES get things figured out, it’s just going to be figuring out how almost every other MLB manager handles things.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 23, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe I basically made that point already
Quoting myself…
“Do I think that it was grossly mismanaged, to the point of immediately firing the guy? Not really.
Do I think the he is proving himself to be a manager that is more likely to cost his team a game as opposed to win his team a game? Very quickly."
BOOM! ROASTED!
Soooo
Just so I can try and understay Trey Hillman, can anyone please please try and tell me or figure out why Mahay was chosen over some of the better relievers? I mean…why Mahay? There has to be logic in there somewhere.
Why did you give up on the cello?
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
because
Mahay had gotten out of a similar situation against a similarily tough lefty (josh hamilton) earlier in the week,
BOOM! ROASTED!
I don't think anybody here understands him either
and don’t hurt yourself trying to wrap your mind around this to figure out his logic. Between the all of the bullpen choices, I doubt that Mahay was anybody’s top pick for this situation today (at least anybody not named “Trey Hillman”). Mahay is, at best, the 4th option – behind Cruz, Tejada, and Soria (in no particular order).
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson
by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright, I'm out
Sorry for complaining so much guys, but this season has been incredibly frustrating for me. It’s not going to get any easier against the Tigers, but, we have Zaq and a prayer.
realistically speaking
Like I said before
I'm tired of the bullpen blowing all these games, move Greinke back to the bullpen
seriously?
Are you serious about moving Greinke back to the bullpen? Or am I missing some sarcasm?
exCell1st....i see you just joined, so you probably didn't knowthere's a reason his comment
is all jacked up like this.....it's called the 'sarcasm font' around here
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Apr 23, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
he can't be trusted to start
5.80 ERA in 2005
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
FYI eXcell1st...
everything Devil_Fingers types that doesn’t include stats is either smart-ass or sarcasm, though he refuses to use the font.
BOOM! ROASTED!
you are
so wrong
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
one of my favorite movies
first time i saw it though i was confused by how quickly the movie changed – the first half was definitely brilliant, the second half special in it’s own way
realistically speaking
Yup
I saw it in the theatre when I was in HS. We had basically forgotten that it was a vampire movie by the time the vampires had shoen up. It was classic in the way that it was essentially 2 genres in one.
BOOM! ROASTED!
one of the more unique mainstream movies ever made
thats for sure
i really enjoyed the firstpart… the second was just like… what the hell?
seemed a little self0indulgent
is this the Tarrantino/Clooney snakes movie I never saw?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Robert Rodriguez directed it I think, but he wrote it with Tarantino.
Really neat movie, definitely worth a rental.
realistically speaking
but it's that movie, right?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 23, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
No snakes
Vampires…Tarantino & RR Co-wrote it if memory serves…
You really need to see it. Clooney is awesome in his role, as is basically everyone in the movie. Really well acted for a ‘horror’ movie
BOOM! ROASTED!
but its not really horror right?
its just a very early expression of cardboard kitchiness/homages to stuff fad
Liked Deathproof better
but if you like Dusk till Dawn you should watch the documentary Full Tilt Boogie about it, it’s very interesting
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Apr 24, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
also -
if you want to reply directly to a post, hit the reply link between the date/time and ‘actions’. If you type a comment in the ‘type a comment’ section at the bottom of the thread you will start a new topic rather than reply directly to the comment you intended.
welcome!
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
TREY IS AN IDIOT
I cant freakin believe Trey lost another game for us again! Who is this guy? Unbelieveable! When Mayhay came out dragging his gas can behind him Ramirez was also warming up! WTF? You have a tie game in the 9th and you warm up those two losers? Mayhay has been garbage this year and so has Ramirez. You have to maintain the lead at that point. Why is Hillman in such a hurry to end games lately? Does he have to get back to his hotel so he can rent horse porn ? This guy is an absolute moron. FIRE HIM DAYTON!!!!!! PLEASE!
by deanerjeffrey on Apr 23, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I have a really great idea!!!!!!!!!
Let’s start Soria every game, but just for one inning.
The second will be Cruz’s inning, but just one.
At that point, Trey can make his screwup, and throw either Mahay, Farnsworth, or HoRam.
THEN – we put it our starter. He pitches the rest of the game.
Benefits:
1. No decisions required!
2. All the sucky stuff happens in the 3rd inning, where we have time to recover!
3. Soria is never underutilized again!
4. Everyone who wants Soria to start is happy- he starts EVERY game!
5. Hillman can leave after the 3rd inning!
I mean, cmon guys, its FOOLPROOF.
Russ Gload = Doug Mientiewicz....without the pop
by Dubya on Apr 23, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Hilarious idea
We’d be the only club bragging about our guy getting 20 saves.
by Soria's Unibrow on Apr 24, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
so Cruz would get about 90 wins?
The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17
Trey did exzctly what he...
…is supposed to do here, and then gets ripped. I mean, Soria seems to be the answer for everything here. Give me a break.
You can rip Trey for the Thome-Farnsworth thing, although I say he’s just trying to figure out what he has in Farnsy at that point.
It’s ONE game. Get over it, folks. – TL
by timlacy on Apr 23, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah it's been 1 game 3 or 4 times now
Hoping your inferior relievers will not give up runs so you can save your good ones is not a great strategy
When is John Bale coming back???
Looks like we need him, he didn’t do well in the rotation but was perfect in relief. Goodness I miss him right now!
he's been ready for weeks
the right situation to activate and use him just hasn’t come up
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 24, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
At least it was yimmyyobble as the LOOGY.
He would have walked the LH and let the RH hit…
The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17
here's what I think personally
If a starting pitcher has worked that hard to carry your team through a game, you do not give him a chance to lose a ballgame. So, if he has a 1 run lead in the 8th with 100+ pitches, he allows the tying runner on base, you get him then. Especially if you have 3 of the best relief pitchers in the AL. That’s my thoughts on the deal. Personally, I thought he looked a little tired and I wouldn’t have sent him out for the 8th.
The 2009 Official You Got Rocked by the Royals and Sent to the Minors List
1. Josh Rupe TEX April 17




















