Let's Get Real
I know there are a thousand wannabe sports talk radio guys on here, so I'll make this real easy: blaming the manager/ calling for his job on a daily basis is absurd. Trey Hillman isn't the cause for every Royals loss. He isn't in the batter's box, he's not on the mound. If managers were infallible, there'd be no need for the players.
Let's take today game as an example. They were 1-10 with runners in scoring position, even had bases loaded no out and failed to get one across today. Nobody has control over those at-bats other than the batter. Unless you expect the manager to start putting in pinch hitters in the 3rd inning.
Meche was efective through 7 and there was no real indication he couldn't finish out the eighth. Lead off double? Maybe you pull him then, or you give your guy a shot to get out of his first real jam of the day. Not even really a jam, though. One out, man on first, no damage done? Easy, let him keep going. Once the tying run had scored, then you put in a reliever.
But who to put in? Farnsworth? Somebody would have driven to Cleveland to shoot Hillman if he'd done that. Soria? Let's go down that road for a minute, shall we?
Let's say he comes in, gets a K and then a groundout to escape the inning. Tie ballgame going into the ninth. Who do you pitch in the ninth? If the Royals got one, your best closer is already in the game with the win on instead of the save. Leave him in then. He finishes out the game with a hit and maybe a walk to make it interesting. Now he's pitched 1 2/3 while facing 7 batters and throwing maybe 30 pitches. Now on Friday night with a 1-0 lead, you need him to close out the game. But he can't and gives up a two-run shot, blows the lead and they lose. We just traded one win for another.
I was just as sickened as anybody when Mahay gave up the jack to Sizemore, maybe another pitcher wouldn't have. Maybe Cruz comes in but still gives up a singel which scores one and they still lose. Still Hillman's fault, I know. He is supposed to look into your crystal ball and know what each at-bat is going to bring.
I'm not saying I don';t have issue with how some of the games have gone. I like Buck over Olivo for starting catcher. I'd like to see Teahen left at 2nd where they are trying to make him stay for the forseeable future. But overall I'm happy with this team. I am excited that they've stayed in first place. I love that people are talking about this rather than just going, "Yeah, they suck again."
I have always and will always love the Royals. Even if they trot out 9 AAA players and an over the hill pitcher, I'm still going to root for them. And I might even expect a win.
4 recs |
45 comments
Comments
They were 1-10 with runners in scoring position, even had bases loaded no out and failed to get one across today
How many times did we fucking line out though.. all you can ask a batter to do is hit the ball hard and see where it goes.. and thats all we did.. was crush the ball and the would make a miraculous jumping catch.. i cant blame the offense that much.. but there were instances where i can blame them.. like say bases loaded and nobody out
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
by focs on Apr 23, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, not Hillman’s fault.
by royalsfanforever on Apr 23, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now he’s pitched 1 2/3 while facing 7 batters and throwing maybe 30 pitches. Now on Friday night with a 1-0 lead, you need him to close out the game. But he can’t and gives up a two-run shot, blows the lead and they lose. We just traded one win for another.
We are talking about a former starting pitcher.. im pretty sure he can throw 30 pitches and be effective the next day
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
by focs on Apr 23, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also
Play today’s game today. Hillman’s been “saving” Soria for the next game for almost a week now. We might also have a 8-0 lead on Friday and not need Soria to pitch at all.
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson
by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but we'll "have" to pitch him anyway
to get his “work” in
"I'll be the first one to tell you, Don't follow me. I'll let you down. Follow Jesus." Trey Hillman
OK, got it.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Apr 23, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you start your #4 starter in Game 6 of the World Series
to save your #1 guy for a possible game 7?
No! Because there may be no game 7, as was the case today. There was no bottom of the 9th to pitch.
Soria or Cruz was appropriate there and Hillman blew it.
by AxDxMx on Apr 23, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
“You don’t worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow it might rain.” – Manager Leo Durocher of the Giants. This was his explanation on why he used his best 2 starting pitchers in the final 1951 NL playoff game, instead of saving them for the WS that started the next day.
Trey Hillman is clearly no Leo Durocher.
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson
by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand why people don't understand that
Of course, there are no guarantees, and those could be the wrong decisions on some days, but overall, it’s the course of action more likely to pay off.
by AxDxMx on Apr 23, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least based on the main page thread...
nobody is laying into Hillman like we did when he brought in Professor Tatersworth to pitch the ninth in Texas or had him pitch to Thome in the season opener.
I do think Hillman left Meche in a batter or two too long, but he played the percentages in bringing in Mahay, and I can’t fault him for that. Mahay got dinged. Hillman didn’t lose us this game. His bullpen management may not have been completely optimal, but I can understand the rationale behind the decisions he made. And I think most other folks here can as well. It sucks that things turned out the way they did, and hopefully Bale gets back from the DL soon.
I do wonder if something is up with Mahay, though. He’s been pretty bad in most of his appearances so far this season.
by DarthYoshi on Apr 23, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well, he was hurt last season
and he was bad after that, and I thought it was lingering this spring. He’s a bit older. So those things are likely to make a guy worse.
Especially when he wasn’t all that great in the first place.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Apr 23, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meaning that while Mahay was okay, he wasn't nearly as good
as his ERA let on the first half of last season
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Apr 23, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking along the same lines
…I just don’t know if there might be a new injury, or a reggravation of the old injury, or what.
by DarthYoshi on Apr 23, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 words -
Cruz
Tejeda
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had no problem with Meche starting the 8th
its the fact that he was left in when he was obviously starting to struggle. You don’t screw with that. You have the best back end bullpen in the league.
When you don’t use it in a 1 run game its tough NOT to look like an ass.
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
24 words
It is OK to lose with your best pitchers. it sucks, but that happens.
Everybody gets pissed when you lose because of stupid decisions.
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Apr 24, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And to clarify,
I’m not blaming Hillman for this loss.
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Apr 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shoulda put Farnsy in
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 23, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
~chokes on tea~
"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp
by grantfunk on Apr 23, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isnt really hard
I mean I was watching on Gameday, with no idea Meche had even slightly injured himself and I was practically screaming for him to be taken out after the leadoff Double.
It became increasingly more obvious that he was obviously not the same pitcher he’d been even 10 minutes earlier.
There were several players(Cruz, Tejada) who could have pitched the 8th, and again it would have been a good spot to stretch out Soria.
Again Trey went with the guy whose been struggling and it didnt pay off in the slightest.
That more than anything is the true story this season, that Trey cannot seem to get the idea that if a player is playing well and hitting/pitching well that THAT PLAYER SHOULD PLAY. He shouldnt sit on the bench while your other cather puts up TPJ numbers, he shouldnt enjoy the BP for 9 days and players like Farns, Olivo and Mahay need to PROVE THEY CAN PLAY.
I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT
by RoyalPug on Apr 23, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
blaming the manager/ calling for his job on a daily basis is absurd. Trey Hillman isn’t the cause for every Royals loss.
I don’t think I’ve ever written the words “Fire Hillman”. If you read the post from today, I was barely even negative.
I think you are characterizing things a bit.
by royalsreview on Apr 23, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he was talking about you
But I know that I have gotten quite annoyed with many members of the site blaming Hillman for absolutely everything since day 1. I’ve had to take a break from reading game threads and other posts because of it. I don’t see it with you, but with others.
This team is not at a point where the manager is the number one priority for change.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Apr 23, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I agree
like many have said, Hillman has definitely screwed the pooch on a some decisions, but there sentiments around the board when anything goes wrong, “F You HIllman, Fire Hillman!”, I don’t love him or anything but when will the players be held accountable?
by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that may be the difference in our viewpoints right there
You don’t feel like this team is a contender, and maybe they’re not, so you don’t see the mistakes as Hillman’s fault. You see it as the players sucking like they are supposed to.
Some of us others see this team as being capable of doing very well if the pitching holds up. The manager has to put his guys in position to succeed, and he has set up Farnsworth to fail spectacularly at least twice. Mahay had 3 bad outings in a row, and he brings in Mahay to pitch in a jam. Sizemore was already 3-7 with a homer off of Mahay during his career. Some of us question these decisions because it seems like he intentionally chooses the worst choice because he wants them to be good, not because they are the best choice. It is also really annoying when Hillman says one thing in the media and then makes the exact opposite of that happen in game situations. He made bad decisions last year as well, and the only reason he is still around is because September saved his job. He made such bad decisions during August it was almost maddening. So I really don’t feel like I’m knee jerk reacting to “unlucky” decisions by Trey. I wanted him gone last year. I can’t believe he managed like this in Japan and won anything.
Yes, we overreact in the game threads, because we are passionate about our team and we feel like victory is there for the taking, if we would just throw our best pitchers.
I view baseball as one big poker game. You play the percentages, and you win games/money. Soria is AA, Cruz is suited AK, Mahay is like 10-9 offsuit. Sure 10-9 gets the job done sometimes, but AA and AK are much better to play with as they come through more. You can’t blame 10-9 for being 10-9, you can only pick and choose your spots to employ it very carefully. So blame the players all you want, I will blame the man that chooses to play those cards. Trey’s got a leaky game. Instead of being tied for 1st, we should be at least 2 games up.
by AxDxMx on Apr 24, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think Hillman just needs to be more consistent
about the way he manages the game.
That could really make it easier for fans to justify the moves he makes.
by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he talked to other managers
and they all said the same thing: gotta keep the fans on their toes
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Apr 24, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Managers Don't Matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111
FIRE HILLMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Apr 24, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If managers don't matter...
Why on earth does it matter if Hillman is in there? Or are you one of those that just likes change for the sake of change?
by royalsfanforever on Apr 24, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
phil sarcasm
I’ve come to love it, you will too
by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't lay any blame on Hillman for this loss
He may have let Meche go too long, but it was defensible. When I saw Cruz and Mahay warming up, I was happy. This loss, unlike some of the other losses, was a team effort.
by marbotty on Apr 24, 2009 5:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good points
lots of Hillman blaming when I think they just lost this one as a team, Meche would probably be the first to tell you that he gave this one up which I would disagree with. Not being able to get the job done with RISP, error on Callaspo, Mahay not doing his job in bailing out Meche and Hillman for the decisions that didn’t go right on his end.
In most cases during a baseball game, there are many things that contribute to a team winning or losing, more times than not, it has little to do with the manager (especially in the AL)
by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All we want is to have our best players on the field
If we lose with them out there then so be it. Then it is not the managers fault. Put the people out there that give the best chance of winning.
by DTforHOF on Apr 24, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the point of the entire discussion.
Seems like we’re debating the fact that Trey Hillman’s judgement of exactly who those best players are is not as good as ours.
Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.
by BillyMojo on Apr 24, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I'm talking to myself again, but
I don’t buy it that I could pick them better than he does. I’m making the calls as a member of the majority here — I’m right in there with the bandwagon when it’s current and I think he’s effing up. But later on I look back and think that he probably made the professional choice and he knows a f@#k-ton more about what he’s doing than I do.
Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.
by BillyMojo on Apr 24, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, all those Ross Gload starts last year
sure show a “professional” choice. Or that time where TPJ was so bad for such an extended period he finally had to actually sit him in favor of a AAA player no one liked. Nevermind the fact, that any SS above A ball, could hit better than TPJ at the MLB level.
By the way, with Aviles struggling at the plate, I expect TPJ to be back full time any day now for his defense. Though I do have hope for his bat being better than last year. Seeing as how he had eye surgery and can maybe actually see the pitch coming at him now.
by AxDxMx on Apr 25, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
by the numbers
is TPJ even “above average” at defense? he makes some flashy plays often enough, but could the sabermetrics guys prove that he’s really all that much better than the rest of the league’s regular everyday shortstops? I’ve got a fair-to-middlin’ hunch that they could prove that he’s far below average offensively, and from what I’m seeing, he’s not as stellar as people like to say even defensively.
As stated before, I’m not assuming to be a MLB manager — but TPJ would not even be on my 40-man. If I was stuck with what Trey has I’d be patient and keep the Avilanche; DFA TPJ once and for all and bring up Luis Hernandez ferfocksake he can’t be worse than TPJ.
Oh crap I went off the deep end now I’m wanting to use my patience even more and call the whole thing off and just keep hoping Tony Junior will one day magically transform into Ozzie Smith. Screw it let’s just keep him in the lineup platooning with MikeyAvilanche.
How many more years till our other two draftees get up here with Alex and Billy so we can REALLY fill out our infield?
Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.
by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay okay okay not that anyone else is worried
but my psychotherapist just smacked me in the face and told me to
take two Callapsos and call her again tomorrow morning.
Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.
by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The projections for Luis Hernandez and Tony Pena Jr
actually had TPJ as the better player. That says volumes to me.
I’m one of the people that don’t think TPJ’s defense is that great, but I will agree that he has awesome range and gets to a few extra balls. He just boots some easy ones. He has looked ok this year though. Last year’s offensive struggles may have contributed to his fielding errors.
by AxDxMx on Apr 26, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's just frustrating
to watch, then keep up the comments and arguments with all the expectations that we’re gonna get one of those magical lineups like having Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Davey Concepcion, and Pete Rose in our infield.
that’s not an everyday occurrence.
Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.
by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and were they even really that good?
um, yeah.
they were.
Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.
by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright
So now it comes out that Soria has soreness in his shoulder….does anyone want to bitch and complain about the bullpen usage now? I just think it’s funny that we all feel like we know more than the people who are running and managing this team.
Maybe next time people will take a step back and wait for the big picture to become clearer before trying to find a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong with the Royals.
by I need more Esteban on Apr 25, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Esteban,
we have stopped bitching (or I have at least). But, this isn’t football where injury info needs to be kept secret or mysterious to try to gain an advantage. I’m pretty sure the other team is going to try to avoid being behind in the 9th inning regardless of who is closing.
That being said, we still had better options than those Hillman decided on using in those situations.
And how’s this for maddening? Farnsworth is in the mix for saves while Soria is sore. Really? I’d say he’s more in the mix for blown saves. Can he really not recognize his 2nd best reliever is Cruz?
by AxDxMx on Apr 26, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
There is no doubt that Soria being out weakens our bullpen considerably, hopefully Cruz is the guy.
by I need more Esteban on Apr 26, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
him or HoRam
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Apr 26, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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