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Let's Get Real

I know there are a thousand wannabe sports talk radio guys on here, so I'll make this real easy: blaming the manager/ calling for his job on a daily basis is absurd.  Trey Hillman isn't the cause for every Royals loss.  He isn't in the batter's box, he's not on the mound.  If managers were infallible, there'd be no need for the players.

Star-divide

 Let's take today game as an example.  They were 1-10 with runners in scoring position, even had bases loaded no out and failed to get one across today.  Nobody has control over those at-bats other than the batter.  Unless you expect the manager to start putting in pinch hitters in the 3rd inning.

  Meche was efective through 7 and there was no real indication he couldn't finish out the eighth.  Lead off double?  Maybe you pull him then, or you give your guy a shot to get out of his first real jam of the day.  Not even really a jam, though.  One out, man on first, no damage done?  Easy, let him keep going.  Once the tying run had scored, then you put in a reliever.

But who to put in?  Farnsworth?  Somebody would have driven to Cleveland to shoot Hillman if he'd done that.  Soria?  Let's go down that road for a minute, shall we?

  Let's say he comes in, gets a K and then a groundout to escape the inning.  Tie ballgame going into the ninth.  Who do you pitch in the ninth?  If  the Royals got one, your best closer is already in the game with the win on instead of the save.  Leave him in then.   He finishes out the game with a hit and maybe a walk to make it interesting.  Now he's pitched 1 2/3 while facing 7 batters and throwing maybe 30 pitches.  Now on Friday night with a 1-0 lead, you need him to close out the game.  But he can't and gives up a two-run shot, blows the lead and they lose.  We just traded one win for another.

 I was just as sickened as anybody when Mahay gave up the jack to Sizemore, maybe another pitcher wouldn't have.  Maybe Cruz comes in but still gives up a singel which scores one and they still lose.  Still Hillman's fault, I know.  He is supposed to look into your crystal ball and know what each at-bat is going to bring.

 I'm not saying I don';t have issue with how some of the games have gone.  I like Buck over Olivo for starting catcher.  I'd like to see Teahen left at 2nd where they are trying to make him stay for the forseeable future.  But overall I'm happy with this team.  I am excited that they've stayed in first place.  I love that people are talking about this rather than just going, "Yeah, they suck again." 

I have always and will always love the Royals.  Even if they trot out 9 AAA players and an over the hill pitcher, I'm still going to root for them.  And I might even expect a win.

4 recs  |  Comment 45 comments

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They were 1-10 with runners in scoring position, even had bases loaded no out and failed to get one across today

How many times did we fucking line out though.. all you can ask a batter to do is hit the ball hard and see where it goes.. and thats all we did.. was crush the ball and the would make a miraculous jumping catch.. i cant blame the offense that much.. but there were instances where i can blame them.. like say bases loaded and nobody out

Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.

by focs on Apr 23, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Like I said, not Hillman’s fault.

by royalsfanforever on Apr 23, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now he’s pitched 1 2/3 while facing 7 batters and throwing maybe 30 pitches. Now on Friday night with a 1-0 lead, you need him to close out the game. But he can’t and gives up a two-run shot, blows the lead and they lose. We just traded one win for another.

We are talking about a former starting pitcher.. im pretty sure he can throw 30 pitches and be effective the next day

Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.

by focs on Apr 23, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also

Play today’s game today. Hillman’s been “saving” Soria for the next game for almost a week now. We might also have a 8-0 lead on Friday and not need Soria to pitch at all.

Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson

by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

but we'll "have" to pitch him anyway

to get his “work” in

"I'll be the first one to tell you, Don't follow me. I'll let you down. Follow Jesus." Trey Hillman

OK, got it.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Apr 23, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you start your #4 starter in Game 6 of the World Series

to save your #1 guy for a possible game 7?

No! Because there may be no game 7, as was the case today. There was no bottom of the 9th to pitch.

Soria or Cruz was appropriate there and Hillman blew it.

by AxDxMx on Apr 23, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly!

“You don’t worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow it might rain.” – Manager Leo Durocher of the Giants. This was his explanation on why he used his best 2 starting pitchers in the final 1951 NL playoff game, instead of saving them for the WS that started the next day.

Trey Hillman is clearly no Leo Durocher.

Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel! - Homer Simpson

by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 23, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand why people don't understand that

Of course, there are no guarantees, and those could be the wrong decisions on some days, but overall, it’s the course of action more likely to pay off.

by AxDxMx on Apr 23, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

at least based on the main page thread...

nobody is laying into Hillman like we did when he brought in Professor Tatersworth to pitch the ninth in Texas or had him pitch to Thome in the season opener.

I do think Hillman left Meche in a batter or two too long, but he played the percentages in bringing in Mahay, and I can’t fault him for that. Mahay got dinged. Hillman didn’t lose us this game. His bullpen management may not have been completely optimal, but I can understand the rationale behind the decisions he made. And I think most other folks here can as well. It sucks that things turned out the way they did, and hopefully Bale gets back from the DL soon.

I do wonder if something is up with Mahay, though. He’s been pretty bad in most of his appearances so far this season.

by DarthYoshi on Apr 23, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, he was hurt last season

and he was bad after that, and I thought it was lingering this spring. He’s a bit older. So those things are likely to make a guy worse.

Especially when he wasn’t all that great in the first place.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Apr 23, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

meaning that while Mahay was okay, he wasn't nearly as good

as his ERA let on the first half of last season

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Apr 23, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking along the same lines

…I just don’t know if there might be a new injury, or a reggravation of the old injury, or what.

by DarthYoshi on Apr 23, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 words -

Cruz

Tejeda

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I had no problem with Meche starting the 8th

its the fact that he was left in when he was obviously starting to struggle. You don’t screw with that. You have the best back end bullpen in the league.

When you don’t use it in a 1 run game its tough NOT to look like an ass.

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Apr 23, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

24 words

It is OK to lose with your best pitchers. it sucks, but that happens.

Everybody gets pissed when you lose because of stupid decisions.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Apr 24, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And to clarify,

I’m not blaming Hillman for this loss.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Apr 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shoulda put Farnsy in

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 23, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

~chokes on tea~

"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp

by grantfunk on Apr 23, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This isnt really hard

I mean I was watching on Gameday, with no idea Meche had even slightly injured himself and I was practically screaming for him to be taken out after the leadoff Double.
It became increasingly more obvious that he was obviously not the same pitcher he’d been even 10 minutes earlier.

There were several players(Cruz, Tejada) who could have pitched the 8th, and again it would have been a good spot to stretch out Soria.
Again Trey went with the guy whose been struggling and it didnt pay off in the slightest.

That more than anything is the true story this season, that Trey cannot seem to get the idea that if a player is playing well and hitting/pitching well that THAT PLAYER SHOULD PLAY. He shouldnt sit on the bench while your other cather puts up TPJ numbers, he shouldnt enjoy the BP for 9 days and players like Farns, Olivo and Mahay need to PROVE THEY CAN PLAY.

I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT

by RoyalPug on Apr 23, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

blaming the manager/ calling for his job on a daily basis is absurd. Trey Hillman isn’t the cause for every Royals loss.

I don’t think I’ve ever written the words “Fire Hillman”. If you read the post from today, I was barely even negative.

I think you are characterizing things a bit.

by royalsreview on Apr 23, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure he was talking about you

But I know that I have gotten quite annoyed with many members of the site blaming Hillman for absolutely everything since day 1. I’ve had to take a break from reading game threads and other posts because of it. I don’t see it with you, but with others.

This team is not at a point where the manager is the number one priority for change.

Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!

by mazoboom on Apr 23, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I agree

like many have said, Hillman has definitely screwed the pooch on a some decisions, but there sentiments around the board when anything goes wrong, “F You HIllman, Fire Hillman!”, I don’t love him or anything but when will the players be held accountable?

by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Hillman just needs to be more consistent

about the way he manages the game.

That could really make it easier for fans to justify the moves he makes.

by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he talked to other managers

and they all said the same thing: gotta keep the fans on their toes

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Apr 24, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Managers Don't Matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

FIRE HILLMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Apr 24, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If managers don't matter...

Why on earth does it matter if Hillman is in there? Or are you one of those that just likes change for the sake of change?

by royalsfanforever on Apr 24, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

or

is he being sarcastic?

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Apr 24, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

phil sarcasm

I’ve come to love it, you will too

by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't lay any blame on Hillman for this loss

He may have let Meche go too long, but it was defensible. When I saw Cruz and Mahay warming up, I was happy. This loss, unlike some of the other losses, was a team effort.

by marbotty on Apr 24, 2009 5:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good points

lots of Hillman blaming when I think they just lost this one as a team, Meche would probably be the first to tell you that he gave this one up which I would disagree with. Not being able to get the job done with RISP, error on Callaspo, Mahay not doing his job in bailing out Meche and Hillman for the decisions that didn’t go right on his end.

In most cases during a baseball game, there are many things that contribute to a team winning or losing, more times than not, it has little to do with the manager (especially in the AL)

by I need more Esteban on Apr 24, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All we want is to have our best players on the field

If we lose with them out there then so be it. Then it is not the managers fault. Put the people out there that give the best chance of winning.

by DTforHOF on Apr 24, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think that's the point of the entire discussion.

Seems like we’re debating the fact that Trey Hillman’s judgement of exactly who those best players are is not as good as ours.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on Apr 24, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and I'm talking to myself again, but

I don’t buy it that I could pick them better than he does. I’m making the calls as a member of the majority here — I’m right in there with the bandwagon when it’s current and I think he’s effing up. But later on I look back and think that he probably made the professional choice and he knows a f@#k-ton more about what he’s doing than I do.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on Apr 24, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, all those Ross Gload starts last year

sure show a “professional” choice. Or that time where TPJ was so bad for such an extended period he finally had to actually sit him in favor of a AAA player no one liked. Nevermind the fact, that any SS above A ball, could hit better than TPJ at the MLB level.

By the way, with Aviles struggling at the plate, I expect TPJ to be back full time any day now for his defense. Though I do have hope for his bat being better than last year. Seeing as how he had eye surgery and can maybe actually see the pitch coming at him now.

by AxDxMx on Apr 25, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

by the numbers

is TPJ even “above average” at defense? he makes some flashy plays often enough, but could the sabermetrics guys prove that he’s really all that much better than the rest of the league’s regular everyday shortstops? I’ve got a fair-to-middlin’ hunch that they could prove that he’s far below average offensively, and from what I’m seeing, he’s not as stellar as people like to say even defensively.

As stated before, I’m not assuming to be a MLB manager — but TPJ would not even be on my 40-man. If I was stuck with what Trey has I’d be patient and keep the Avilanche; DFA TPJ once and for all and bring up Luis Hernandez ferfocksake he can’t be worse than TPJ.

Oh crap I went off the deep end now I’m wanting to use my patience even more and call the whole thing off and just keep hoping Tony Junior will one day magically transform into Ozzie Smith. Screw it let’s just keep him in the lineup platooning with MikeyAvilanche.

How many more years till our other two draftees get up here with Alex and Billy so we can REALLY fill out our infield?

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

okay okay okay not that anyone else is worried

but my psychotherapist just smacked me in the face and told me to

take two Callapsos and call her again tomorrow morning.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The projections for Luis Hernandez and Tony Pena Jr

actually had TPJ as the better player. That says volumes to me.

I’m one of the people that don’t think TPJ’s defense is that great, but I will agree that he has awesome range and gets to a few extra balls. He just boots some easy ones. He has looked ok this year though. Last year’s offensive struggles may have contributed to his fielding errors.

by AxDxMx on Apr 26, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's just frustrating

to watch, then keep up the comments and arguments with all the expectations that we’re gonna get one of those magical lineups like having Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Davey Concepcion, and Pete Rose in our infield.

that’s not an everyday occurrence.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and were they even really that good?

um, yeah.

they were.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on Apr 25, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alright

So now it comes out that Soria has soreness in his shoulder….does anyone want to bitch and complain about the bullpen usage now? I just think it’s funny that we all feel like we know more than the people who are running and managing this team.

Maybe next time people will take a step back and wait for the big picture to become clearer before trying to find a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong with the Royals.

by I need more Esteban on Apr 25, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Esteban,

we have stopped bitching (or I have at least). But, this isn’t football where injury info needs to be kept secret or mysterious to try to gain an advantage. I’m pretty sure the other team is going to try to avoid being behind in the 9th inning regardless of who is closing.

That being said, we still had better options than those Hillman decided on using in those situations.

And how’s this for maddening? Farnsworth is in the mix for saves while Soria is sore. Really? I’d say he’s more in the mix for blown saves. Can he really not recognize his 2nd best reliever is Cruz?

by AxDxMx on Apr 26, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

There is no doubt that Soria being out weakens our bullpen considerably, hopefully Cruz is the guy.

by I need more Esteban on Apr 26, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

him or HoRam

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Apr 26, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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