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Optimism and Anxiety Mingle Uneasily in Forecasting 2009 Royals

He had someone else put away the chair. (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

More photos » by Tony Gutierrez - AP

He had someone else put away the chair. (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

So here we are again, at the start of another year. I believe that it is a convention of the genre that I post some kind of thought out preview post here, along with a prediction for the season. So I will oblige.

To be honest with you, dear reader, I was more excited about the Royals last season than I am now. This time a year ago, I predicted a 79-83 record for the Royals, thanks to what I hoped would be a vastly improved offense. Didn't happen. Didn't happen by a long shot, actually. The Royals did ride a hot September to a 75-87 finish, but the fundamentals of their performance were actually a bit worse in 2008 than they were in 2007, the waning twilight of the Sweeney/Emil Brown Era.

I predicted the Royals would score 770 runs, they scored 691, fifteen fewer than in 2007. Mostly, I was concerned that the pitching would step back a little from 2007's remarkable turnaround, which in a sense happened. The '08 Royals allowed three more runs than the '07 squad.

(Now, run scoring was down slightly last season, so relative to the league, the decline on defense/pitching was slightly larger than three runs, and the decline on offense was smaller than fifteen runs. The net effect however, is the same.)

As we prepare for 2009, the matter that I find myself returning to the most, beyond all the hysterics about the off-season of suck (Bloomy, Farnsworth, etc.) that may or may not be justified, is that the Royals really didn't improve last season.

Runs Scored Runs Allowed
2007 706 778
2008 691 781

 

Let's stop for a moment.

A team that enjoyed great to good seasons again from Joakim Soria, Gil Meche and Zack Greinke, a mild bounce-back from David DeJesus, a huge breakout campaign from Mike Aviles, an improved performance from Alex Gordon and a host of small victories (encouraging signs from Davies & Hochevar, for example) still scored less than they did the year before, and allowed three more runs.

It does not matter how good your core is if you surround it with garbage, and the Royals still have a lot of trash on the roster. A good portion of it is new trash, amazingly. Think about Cleveland. The Royals probably have a better core (whatever that means) than the Tribe. Sizemore may trump all, but after that, if you were holding a draft between the two teams, you'd probably take more Royals in your top 10 than Indians. After that however, you'd probably end up drafting six or seven straight Indians. You can do this as well with the Twins, if you prefer, and the results are the same. And that's the problem. The Royals aren't much different from the Tigers at this point (albeit, hopefully, headed in a different direction): big names, no depth.

Last off-season, it all felt like it was about to happen. Butler was ready. Gordon was ready. Meche and Greinke were there already. Now, in theory, Butler and Gordon really should be ready, but I nevertheless feel gun shy. The positive from 2008 was that Gordon and Butler got at bats, and Davies and Hochevar got innings. And even if the results weren't quite what we may have hoped for, developmentally, they may as yet prove instrumental. Sure, we may have lost the possibility of Bannister being a contributor in the bargain, but maybe, the only lesson here is that we were all too fast to expect big things from youngsters like Butler.

And so, I guess in a way I'm set to repeat myself. Although the strength of the team figures to be pitching (can't say the defense, overall, is improving much thanks to questions in the infield counteracting an improved outfield) all the growth potential, in the short term, is with the offense. Meche and Greinke and Soria have been good for three years, remember. Putting aside the Butler/Gordon issue, it looks like a boom and bust lineup, with the lineup built around out-machine "sluggers" like Jose Guillen, Mike Jacobs and the B'Olivo tandem. The Royals might be in the top five in the league in games over 15+ runs and lead the league in shutouts as well. Rallies better happen quickly, because they are going to be hard to sustain in long sequences. It's a lineup where lineup may matter a little more than usual, and Hillman would do well to try to maximize his OBP sources, which at this point are DeJesus, and Gordon, with Butler, Teahen and Crisp on the fringes. I'm not sanguine as to the possibility of Hillman doing so, and in the end, luck and timing will settle the matter: when will the homers happen? As I wrote last week, offenses like this can have their moments, even their years. They can also produce a lot of solo homers and eight pitch innings for the opposition.

I've said enough about the rotation in the off-season's final days, and I'm not sure how the bullpen is going to be definitively better than last year's. Again, the same lame analogy remains: great core, little else. I think Juan Cruz's will be effective, but that he'll also be a notch below his National League numbers. Soria will be Soria, everything else just looks like a generic bullpen: nothing too bad or too promising. Mahay's health could be the hinge on which the bullpen swings, long term.

The official RR predictions are as follows: 732 runs scored, 788 runs allowed. Both of these figures, incidentally, are slightly better than what the major projection systems see. Past a small dose of optimism, I'm having trouble seeing the Royals out-performing the numbers to a larger extent than that. A string of five or so consecutive questionable moves has a way of limiting upside. Those RA-RS totals spit out a 75-87 record, and I'll stand by that, with the Soria bump negated by an inefficient lineup. I don't see Hillman as a guy who has back to back seasons of out-performing his Pythag in him.

At times earlier this off-season I've been closer to last year's 79 win-prediction and above. Around December, I felt this was a 81-2 win team. However, after taking another look at Davies and the subsequent demotion of Hochevar, after thinking more about how far the offense has to go, after wondering about the infield defense, and other issues, I'm less hopeful.

The bitter thing is, with a better off-season from Moore, the Royals might have been in a position to sneak away with a division title. Instead, most of the players brought in to complement the core have only raised the team's payroll. Until the next wave of players, the Moose generation, matures, the Royals look to have reached their peak. Sure, Butler and Gordon and Davies and Hochevar could all emerge, and no one else might decline or get injured. Maybe. Maybe that happens in 2010. I guess its possible.

The Royals have made progress, that much is undeniable. At times in 2005 and 2006, the Royals looked like they might lose 120 games. I can't really imagine a scenario in which the Royals lose 100 games this year, absent a doomsday injury catastrophe. The sticky problem is that the first half of the development arch does not necessarily portend a second. Bad teams almost always eventually rise to mediocrity for awhile and when they do so, they are usually young and filled with promise. The Brewers climbed to 80-82 in 1996, after three poor seasons.  The 1997 Pirates reached 79-83, and the 1996 Twins made it to 78-84. In 2000, the Tigers climbed all the way to 79-83 after a miserable decade. Hell, in 2000, the Royals won 77 games. None of those teams got any further, and in fact, most were worse off than before two years later. In fact, you could argue that the most lasting turnarounds aren't manifested by three years of seven-win improvements a year, but sudden, one year leaps forward, like those of last year's Rays and the 1991 Braves

In a way, I almost feel like a 91 win season in 2009 is more likely than an 81 win one. Hopefully I'll be wrong, or right. I can't keep this one straight.

 

3 recs  |  Comment 31 comments |

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Sizemore may trump all, but after that, if you were holding a draft between the two teams, you'd probably take more Royals in your top 10 than Indian

1. Grady Sizemore
2. Joakim Soria
3. Victor Martinez
4. Cliff Lee
5. Alex Gordon
6. Gil Meche
7. Fausto Carmona
8. David DeJesus
9. Mike Aviles
10.Kelly Shoppach

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 4, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oops

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Apr 4, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

just based on youth.

CHoo should probably be on that list head of Aviles and Carmona, for sure. Are we talking payroll? I assume not. I’d be tempted to take him ahead of DeJesus, probaby not, but it’s closer than people think.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Apr 5, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and where's J/ho/ohnny Perlta?

He’s better than Aviles and Shoppach

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Apr 5, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm done trying to predict this season.

It’s time to play some baseball. I agree, it doesn’t look that encouraging on paper, BUT, it also looks a lot more encouraging than it has in many years. This team has a lot of variables, probably more than your average mediocre team – there is upside! Unfortunately, some of our upside is in AAA. Nevertheless, we have a fighting chance this season, which is more than we can say for the past 5 years.

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 4, 2009 9:55 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

rec'd because of:
It’s time to play some baseball.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Apr 5, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The division hinges on health

It seems like the Tigers and Twins are struggeling in that regard.
Half of Detroit’s pitching staff is having health issues. The Twins won’thave Mauer for the whole year and who knows if it’s a chronic problem.
The White Sox seem healthy enough. They better hope that QUentin’s wrist doesn’t sap any power though. The Indians need bounce back years from Victor Martinez and to an extent Hafner (although I’m sure they’re not really counting on him) and Kerry Wood will always be a question mark.

It seems like at the moment, at the very least the Royals are the healthiest and that could play a big role and that’s why in my opinion there should be a smidge of more optimism than usual. Even if it is an illusion and the team is mediocre like the Padres of 2005 or something.

by Royal from Queens on Apr 4, 2009 10:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

very good point

now, we just need to take down cleveland

by royalsreview on Apr 5, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder how much it'd cost to ensure Cliff Lee and Fausto Carmona

simultaneously suffer some sort of….“accident”

realistically speaking

by slayor on Apr 5, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Judging from today

Accidents are not necessary, just going back to their sucky selves is sufficient.
Lets hope it lasts.

by Royal from Queens on Apr 6, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the tone of the article.

Somehow I had a more enthusiasm going into the 2008 season. Seeing Pena and HoRam retained and Shealy and Hochevar sent down was one last artery popping bit of jackassery by the bosses. The 40-man roster is not better today than it was 12 months ago and, I think, the 25-man roster is actually weaker today than it was last opening day. This despite the extra $15 or $20M added to the payroll.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Apr 5, 2009 9:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My prediction...

87 wins (and somehow, miraculously we are in the division race until the final weekend.)

by RaulDuke on Apr 5, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So true and so sad that the Royals were once there.
The Royals have made progress, that much is undeniable. At times in 2005 and 2006, the Royals looked like they might lose 120 games. I can’t really imagine a scenario in which the Royals lose 100 games this year, absent a doomsday injury catastrophe.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Apr 5, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ah, I remember it well.

Will used to post updates comparing where the 2005 Royals were in comparison to the 1962 Mets. For two months the records were neck and neck. Then KC went on a tear of .400 baseball and only lost 106 games. In a morbid way I was of two minds during that season. There is no fun in rooting for a team that loses 106 games, but there is something special in rooting for a team that loses 120. I guess I was just looking to experience a small part of baseball history.

I love the Royals so I will predict 82 wins this year. But it is a fan’s prediction.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Apr 5, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My Prediction for 2009

I don’t see how we can win the division with HoRam and Ponson in the rotation, plus the poor infield defense that will fail us in close games. I wish I could be more optimistic, but looking at this team from an objective point of view, I don’t see more that 70-75 wins this year.

by BlueBloodRoyal on Apr 5, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

NYT, the paper of record.

Who are we to doubt?

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Apr 5, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm telling you

The Royals aren’t as bad as you think! After I vented for a couple of days over the Hochevar demotion, I started to agree with that decision… there are a lot of factors that go into why that demotion happened and why Ponson is in the starting rotation, but I assure you he won’t be there in June. Pitching and defense is where everyone seems to be up in arms about. The defense is going to be poor this season. Get used to that. But pitching? The pitching staff will be fine. I foresee it as a 4-man rotation with a rotating 5th man. HoRam will prove he’s not the man for the job (I’m confident in that). As far as the bullpen, I’m more confident in this year’s bullpen than last, so that’s my take.

by FretFriendly on Apr 5, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The bullpen could be pretty good this season

and I can understand the worries at the beginning of last year re: the bullpen, but they ended up being really, really good. Now, Ramon Ramirez pitched the season of his life, probably, so he’ll regress, and even Soria can’t be expected to be quite that good. Juan Cruz is good, but he won’t be as good as Ramirez was last season. Farnsworth will need a lot of luck to match Leo Nunez’s 2008…. and so on.

Not saying it’s a bad ‘pen, just that I think it’s hard to expect them to match last year’s group.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary to Driveline Mechanics and elsewhere since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Apr 5, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

great article

Glad to see honest reasoned pessimism without the sarcastic hyperbole. I’m more optimistic, but then that’s based on hope more than reason. Players, sometimes important players, get hurt, players regress as often as the break out. Something around last years record, maybe a few games better seems likely to me.

by sfeldkamp on Apr 5, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My prediction

82-80. I believe breakouts from Gordon and Butler will offset all the other trash on the roster, also that Jacobs will be better then we think, and the bullpen will be very good.

remaining positive at all costs

by LimaTime10 on Apr 5, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Those things happen

and we finish just two games above .500?? Not a chance. If Gordon and Butler have breakout seasons, Jacobs out-performs his projections and the bullpen is exceedingly good, I think it would be safe to say the Royals will be near or at the top of the AL Central… there isn’t as much trash on this team as people think. Below average defense and terrible #4 and #5 starters that won’t last more than a month and a half are the “trash” you must be referring to. Our roster has seen MUCH worse days. Just compare the 2009 opening day lineup to the 2008 lineup and I think you’ll reconsider your level of optimism. We should be thankful that the word “contention” is even in our vocabulary as Royals fans.

by FretFriendly on Apr 5, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hm...

The underpinning of the literate Royals fanbase’s general ennui can be summed up in the following (in my view) flawed assumption:

“Until the next wave of players, the Moose generation, matures, the Royals look to have reached their peak.”

There seems to be rumbling discontent that this is as good as it gets and that last year’s team reached its true level and that any internal improvements (Butler, Gordon) will likely be offset by regressions (Meche, Aviles, DeJesus). I don’t get this. The franchise’s four best talents (Greinke, Butler, Gordon and Soria) are 25 or younger. Until they reach their peaks, the team certainly won’t have reached its peak.

by billexgordler on Apr 5, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

good point

I think the issue is that help isn’t really on its way any time soon. So, while we have a bunch of great young players on the squad right now, odds are low that they’ll be on the roster when the next wave of great players (Hosmer, Duffy, Moustakas) make it up.

Not that that’s a bad thing, necessarily — for a number of years Oakland managed to lead the division because they were able to effectively flip their outgoing stars for major league-ready prospects, which sort of led to a mini-explosion of talent coming up all at the same time. So, if someone like Gordon gets traded for a couple of good, young prospects right around the time Moose and Hosmer come up, the team could be very dominant.

But, to get back to your statement, while there is a good chance that we’ll see improvements from our young players, it’s unlikely we’ll see any sort of infusion of new talent. So, yeah, we maybe haven’t reached the peak, the peak isn’t quite as high as it could be (if that makes any sense.)

by marbotty on Apr 6, 2009 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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