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Around SBN: In Crunch Time, Spurs Don't Change Their Game

Royal Bullpen & General Incompetence Saves Cleveland's Season

This summer just wouldn't have been as fun without Cleveland around, would it?

Well, as they always say, when you have a chance to save the season of the pre-season favorite in your division, even with your two best pitchers set to start, you have to do it, right? You have to.

When you stop to think about it, aside from the ninth inning from the series opener, the Royals didn't play well much at all. The last two games have, in general, been incredibly poorly played, by both teams really.

I know there's quite a lot of anger directed at the bullpen right now, and rightfully so. Still, and not just because we're in the post-George-Brett-meltdown era, I'm hesitant to lay too much of the blame at Hillman's feet for this one. Greinke was slightly off early, and coupled with a few fluky singles and a generally patient Tribe, was at 103 pitches after six. It's debateable as to whether or not ZG should have gone out for the seventh inning, but even if he does sneak in that extra inning, would it have mattered? The Royals would still have had to get through two innings, and at the moment, out of the Ho-Ram-Farnsy-Ponson-Tejeda-Wright-Mahay stockhouse, there's a great dish that you can cook up.

The bullpen looked questionable going into the season, and the Soria injury has proven to be something of a paradigm changer. At the moment, in the "guys we can trust" camp we have Cruz, and... and... perhaps Mahay. Ho-Ram hadn't been bad until today, but hell, he's Ho-Ram.

Sigh.

None of this series went the way it was supposed to. The Indians lost a game started by Lee, the Royals games started by Meche and Greinke. Perhaps the lesson is don't bet on baseball.

See you in St. Louis.

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Game Thread 2: May 21, 2009

May 2009 from Let's Go Tribe - 256 comments

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I've noticed no one is rushing to be first in this thread

Yeah, this game was no fun. Greinke wasn’t on. The bullpen was distinctly off and I think we’re really starting to miss Soria after these last couple of nights. If Trey has that ace in the hole, he probably treats the bullpen differently and we don’t see HoRam either game or Ponson yesterday.

by sterlingice on May 21, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

thats the problem

our 2 worsrt bullpen pitchers were allowed to lose games they should have never been in in the first place

realistically speaking

by slayor on May 21, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of our bullpen is sucking lately

I don’t know that the other options would have performed better than the “two worst.”

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on May 21, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it would have felt any better

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on May 21, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

loosing is loosing is loosing

1) Get your hopes up because the better closers are in and still loose

2) don’t have your hopes up at all because we are dealing with the closers we have and have 1 miraculous win

either way you cut it, winning is good loosing not so good

But it’s a long season, let’s go Royals!!!!

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 21, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or even losing

That sucks even more.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 21, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

i prefer getting loose

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on May 21, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

pardon the spelling

my bad

My emphasis was on the lose part, so putting an extra O in there just exemplifies the fact that it was a super bad loss

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 21, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our best or even worst pitchers against the worst offense in our division?

Or is that turning around for them now?

Or wait a minute, is our offense the worst in the division? Has it been?

Someone knows. I’m sure of it.

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on May 21, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a quick peek at the standings shows (so it may not be up to date including today)

Run differential

Detroit 214-176
Kansas City 187-174
Minnesota 215-221
Chicago 158-205
Cleveland 222-239

I think that includes today

by sterlingice on May 21, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

This series was a downer

Win the game we shouldn’t and lose the two that we should’ve won. The team is starting to play at their talent level. Hitters are average at best, defense is poor and bullpen is up and down and probably below average without Soria, starting pitchers are still good though and hopefully they can keep us close to .500 which is what we expected in the first place. Detroit is hot and probably gonna start building that lead unless somehow we get hot against STL and comeback and play well against them. Not extremely likely though.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on May 21, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I Promise

no posts with pics of weed in this thread.

4th btw

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on May 21, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey Gobble ...

Gobble was awesome today. Gave up a Grand Slam!

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on May 21, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

ain't it cool that when we suffer suckage we can

revel in the suckage of others as well?

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on May 21, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

All Star Game is the gate opening for

Jimmy Gobble, Cy Young Award and AL MVP.

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on May 21, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's fucking unbelievable that two other teams actually picked this loser up

he’s the worst pitcher i have ever seen. Thats why I have the name. When I see him I wonder why I played lacrosse from HS , college and even pro (for the San Fran Dragons). I don’t think I could have been worse than this guy. He gave up 11 earned runs in one inning last year. What a piece of crap

by GobbleforCyoung on May 21, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brian Runge

how blind does that guy have to be?

23,095 seems like less than I was expecting from what I saw there. Maybe this team needs to not charge $16 for the fringes of View Level Infield.

And standing in front of the fountains is fucking glorious. I love that we now have a marsh pit by the statues in right field. One of these days, the fans WILL mosh.

by BHWick on May 21, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Also

Jose Guillen is fucking slow.
Kyle Farnsworth still sucks.

And we need a better bullpen

by BHWick on May 21, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

I am not that down

We are a very mediocre team in a very mediocre division. Nothing on our roster says we should expect to win these games all the time. Look at the game on Tuesday, another mediocre team butchered a good position.

We are not that good, nor is anyone else in the Central. I’m shocked people didn’t realise that.

by kcbottom9th on May 21, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions  

tigers are good

realistically speaking

by slayor on May 21, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: Question about "clutchness"

Sorry if I’m behind on this, and I’m aware that the typical theory about certain players being “clutch” has been widely debunked.

What I’m wondering is this: There is no question that in life, certain people perform better in pressure situations than others do. This is not to say that people necessarily “elevate their game” in clutch situations, but rather just that they don’t collapse under the pressure.

So in baseball, is there conclusive evidence that there are no players who perform significantly worse in pressure situations? I know there’s not much evidence of players being able to consistently elevate their game in these situations, but the vast majority of players just play to their potential in crunch time, with typical statistical variation.

Any ideas?

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on May 21, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions  

there may be a few...

but with many guys, its just a label that doesn’t jive with the facts

and then, if you get labelled one way or the other, you basically carry it for life

look at Jeter… he’s had great postseasons and absolutely horrible ones, but he’s clutch, same with Arod, but he’s unclutch, etc

by Freneau on May 21, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is a "clutch" stat

if I may self-promote, you can find a brief explanation of how it works here (just read the first section on wRAA and WPA/LI). However, there isn’t really any correlation from year-to-year.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 21, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

my off the cuff answer...

There do seem to be people incapable of handling pressure in everyday life. If that’s a recognizable personality trait, I’d argue that someone with that trait would never (or very very rarely) make it to the major leagues. Every at-bat probably equates to your everyday pressure situation, so someone who can’t handle it would have been weeded out very early on.

by stuckinstl12 on May 22, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

wait

we’re having a game in STL at 12:10 on Saturday?

does that mean we have to rest all our old guys for that game?

by BHWick on May 21, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

After today......

I have realized I am spending way too much of my time on this team. Not a chance in hell this team makes the playoffs. The only reasonable goal is to go .500 but if greinke fades just a hair that wont hapen either. One elite pitcher and nothing great after that since we dont know even what Meche (“the ace”) is gonna give you, whether it be his back or “conditioning”. Davies is inconsistent. Banny is AAAA hochevar blows and the bullpen with soria would be avg. but without has been pretty bad. We cant score enough runs and situational hitting is something that apparently isnt a priority. Defense has been god awful as of late too. For this team to attempt to compete everything, repeat EVERYTHING, is going to have to start going right. Is this rant out of frustration? You better believe it, with a splash of reality and lack of confidence that anything mentioned above will change anytime soon.

by 2LegittoShit on May 21, 2009 7:00 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

realistically speaking

by slayor on May 21, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

could I get my splash of reality....

with some ice cubes made of dreams, and a garnish of frustration?

So while I sip away at my reality I can see my dreams disappear which will just get me frustrated that the only thing left to enjoy of my drink is that stupid garnish?

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 21, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions  

More tidbits

Coco Crisp couldn’t play today because of the Royal Inquisition he received from Tim the Douchebag.

Putting Jose Guillen in front of a section filled with transient drunks was someone’s idea of a joke. I’m sure Jose loves the Party Porch.

by BHWick on May 21, 2009 8:23 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

rec'd
Putting Jose Guillen in front of a section filled with transient drunks was someone’s idea of a joke. I’m sure Jose loves the Party Porch.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 21, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah

I was around the Party Porch late in the game when Mike Jacobs was about to come up. You never know when he’s going to put another one in the fountains.

But seriously, the drunks were ragging on Jose and he was fucking slow. You’d probably get better fielding in right field if you put Billy Butler out there.

Also, Jose gunned one almost all the way to the infield dirt mid-game

by BHWick on May 21, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too

I was sitting behind our bullpen and heard some very load ironic cheering when a foul ball kicked out infront of Guillen. He jogged over to pick it up and the fans really voiced their appreciation.

by ndroyalsfan on May 21, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another random note

the PA played Razor Ramon’s theme music at one point in this game for some reason.

They have a rotation of wrestling themes, it seems.

But they’re not using this for Farnsworth, yet

by BHWick on May 21, 2009 8:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Is anyone else

ready to see what the pirates would want for Jack Wilson? I would send Mike down to AAA to see if the can recapture his swing from last year. But I am hesitant to give up on this year when it is so rare a year comes around like this were anyone could win the division. Personally I would rather have Wilson than Ocab although Orlando would probably be cheaper.

by gordonrules on May 21, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

jack wilson ain't gonna fix this team

he’s just another no power .300 OBP guy, albeit with a good glove. I think if you want to upgrade this team defensively, the answer is getting Guillen out of RF. Once Gordon is back, I’d definitely like to see guillen dumped off and teahen permanently moved to RF.

realistically speaking

by slayor on May 21, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

realistically

we have alot more of a shot at getting Wilson then we do at dumping Joagie.

by gordonrules on May 21, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Braves are looking to dump Francoeur

There’s a FanShot about it. Devil Fingers suggested trading Guillen straight up for him, and I thought it was a great idea (assuming the Braves take all of Jose’s contract). See if Seitzer can work a miracle on Frenchy for the rest of the year, and if not, then you non-tender him for 2010 and go into 2010 with Teahen as your starting RF. Or, if Dayton wants to go RF shopping, he’s got an extra $12M freed up to do it.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 22, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That would be fantastic

if DMGM could pull it off. Hoagy is murdering us defensively. It seems like his range is about the size of a lilypad, and he’s supposed to be healthy right now.

by hunter s. royal on May 22, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

maybe

but until this team starts playing better baseball, it’s really a moot point. they have been going on over two weeks of poor fundamental baseball, even in many of the games they have won.

up until now, the talent level on this team was such that the “little things” were a squirt of piss by comparison. now, however, every little thing that we’re doing wrong is magnified b/c it really does mean the difference between sub .500 and contention.

i don’t have much hope that the defense will get markedly better from a range/UZR perspective, but at least they can start by executing things like hitting the cutoff man, keeping runners out of scoring position, etc.

on the offensive side, stop running ourselves out of innings with stupid baserunning blunders.

if we can start doing those things and keep up our current component stats, i think we’ll have an outside chance at being in the race. if we continue to make the same mistakes, i think we’ll be hard-pressed to beat last year’s win total, and that’s with a much more talented team.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 21, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The truth is this team wont make any trades to benefit the team. When have they ever?

Outside of maybe Crisp and Jacobs but I mean “in season”. We have to live with the fact that hot starts are fool’s gold. Look at the Padres, they had a great start granted it was over a shorter number of games but still. Tigers are playing great, the twins WILL be in the mix as always and even though the chi sox suck it doesnt mean we wont find away to lose series against them just like we did vs cleveland. The whole “we beat toronto” thing is weak as fuck. You know what else we did? Went 3-4 on a homestand with two teams that wouldnt make the WNBA playoffs. Fucking Pathetic. This homestand made me understand that while we may have a shot at second in the division, thats like being in the bottom third of the American League. At least we have a new cool stadium though……

by 2LegittoShit on May 21, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

why make a trade

when they aren’t playing well enough to win the division? the series this weekend and then against the tigers will be really important IMO in whether we hang around or float out of the race. no less than 3-3 and probably 4-2 is acceptable, really if we’re going to stay in this. will that happen? i don’t know, probably not. we’ve got our 3-5 starters going on the road and then meet up with a hot tigers team.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 21, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man,

people just can’t jump off the bandwagon fast enough.

by gordonrules on May 21, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions  

i don't know if it's jumping off the bandwagon

as much as it is a realistic assessment of where the team is at currently. they can definitely challenge for the division, but they’ve got to get better at executing the fundamentals. this team doesn’t have much of a margin for error, and they have given away a LOT of games already this year, whether it’s from managerial mistakes or fundamental mistakes. for me, it’s just more frustration than anything, knowing that their record could easily be 4-5 games better than it is.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 21, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you for being understanding about whats jumping off the bandwagon and whats reasonable....

Im not off the bandwagon gordonrules at all. And next time, please have something more involved to say then, “Man ppl just cant jump off the bandwagon fast enough”. Truly foolish. I assess the good, the bad, and the ugly with our season. If you want to contribute bring more than that. Perhaps come back with info that makes me think otherwise. Do you have it? Prob not since the best you had to offer was a quip like some of us dont care as much as you do about the royals. Gimme a break man. If you think the last two weeks is acceptable thats your deal, but man thats also lame. Again, instead of quips i would love to hear what you have to say about how things will be better. Not dogging but its real easy to say what you said. We all want success but you also must be realistic and frustrated by what has been royals baseball lately.

by 2LegittoShit on May 21, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you really expect to be above 500 at this time before the season started?

I would bet the vast majority of royals fans would say no. It’s baseball man the season is long. All teams go through hot and cold stretches. Hopefully we have more good than bad this year. The cards have ludwick out of the lineup, I believe, so thats a little bit of good news going in to their place.

by gordonrules on May 22, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Matchups for STL series don't look to bad

Davies v. Wellmeyer, Hoch v. Lohse and Banny v. Pineiro. We miss Wainright and Carpenter. Game 1 looks like our best shot for a w. After watching this team this year I won’t be suprised if we win game 2. Just because it looks most like a sure loss.

by gordonrules on May 22, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions  

the Cardies are saying the same thing.

Oh cool we miss Meche and Greinke. Good chance for a sweep.

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on May 22, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone is awful sensitive about the bandwagon comment

Being realistic is for impartial observers, fans should not give up until the fat lady sings. Sure, she’s doing warmups in the background, but how long has it been since our season wasn’t over by this point. Last year, we were in game 3 of a 12 game losing streak. I like being an optimist though few of us are left in the Royals fanbase. This team has not won a playoff game since I was four months old, yet I have supported them March through September whether they won fifty or eighty.

So if it offends you when someone tells you that you are jumping off the bandwagon, well don’t jump off or don’t ride your clubs like a bandwagon fan would. I don’t believe any of us on Royals Review to be one, since we seem to care enough to waste hours away on here. I know it’s frustrating, but if you expect wins all the time support Manchester United, it’s much easier.

Why go all crazy when we have a better team than usual (sad but true)? Sure, we should have three or four more wins, but why fret? Have a beer and tomorrow will be another game.

"It’s not about the guacamole itself," Greinke said. "I just don’t want to let them win."

by Joseph Landis on May 22, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Last year, we were in game 3 of a 12 game losing streak.

And just yesterday we lost the ninth game out of the last 12.

Comparing this to last year is apples to dog turds. If we hadn’t run up a 9-3 stretch between April 26 and May 7, this current 3-9 stretch would be even worse.

But that answers a question all by itself. Over the last 24 games what are we? 12-12.

Exactly where we should be, and maybe even better than we deserve. We got some WINS in bunches, followed by some LOSSES in bunches.

I think if it weren’t for that fact, the “streakiness”; the comments would be different.

Wouldn’t it psychologically feel different if over the last 24 games, we won every other game? Of course it would. Getting one out of three versus Cleveland feels like getting punked by your little sister’s boyfriend.

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on May 22, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

all true, all good points

for me, it’s not that i’m unhappy with where we’re at. quite the contrary, i’m thrilled that we’re over .500 and in 2nd place. BUT, there are some things i see out of the team that trouble me that need to get fixed IF they want to stay in contention all summer long.

i would like to see the team play better fundamental baseball. not that it really matters if they’re winning, but i think the two are going to go hand in hand for this team. if we play poorly, we are generally not going to be good enough to overcome those mistakes and we’re going to fall further and further back.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 22, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

this team is not good fundamentally at all

and we are going to have to win in spite of it which is not a good thing.

This means that we will probably go through the same hot and cold streaks that we’ve done the first couple months.

I think one thing that we can all be excited about is we are approaching inter-league play, something that the Royals have done well with in the last few years even with their most mediocre teams.

Also, we get a shot at the Tigers next week, we will really be able to see how we stack up after that series.

by I need more Esteban on May 22, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

sure,

but then everybody’s been counting on zack to win every time out, and we’ve lost two out of the last three that he’s pitched. just b/c we’ve done well in interleague in the past doesn’t mean anything. i think that has pretty much run it’s course.

the truth is, this team can’t take ANYTHING for granted if they want to be successful. any thoughts of, “well, zack’s on the mound, we’re going to win today”, or “well, it’s interleague, we will do well”, that’s just not the right mentality to have.

I know that the players are pre-programmed automatons that merely spit out predetermined outcomes based on their genetic coding, but

i am willing to be that a little human emotion creeps in there from time to time. i would like to see these guys be a little more focused and game aware. if we lose b/c we’re not good enough and we’re not VORPing/MORPing/WOBAing it up as well as the other team, fine. but man, the giveaways of outs on both sides of the ball are just killing us.

No relation whatsoever to my point, but saw this and had to share.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 22, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

...
the truth is, this team can’t take ANYTHING for granted if they want to be successful. any thoughts of, "well, zack’s on the mound, we’re going to win today", or "well, it’s interleague, we will do well", that’s just not the right mentality to have.

I would certainly hope that the players don’t have those thoughts. We as fans, however, can have any thoughts like that we want.

just b/c we’ve done well in interleague in the past doesn’t mean anything. i think that has pretty much run it’s course.

What reason or evidence do you have to say that it’s “run it’s course”. I don’t think there is any reason to think that the Royals will not keep their interleague success going, conversely, there isn’t really a reason to think that they will. But as a fan, the last 2 seasons I’ve seen us go 22-14 in interleague play with pretty bad teams. I know this team is better than the last 2 seasons so I’ll be optimistic about it. Do I have a reason to be other than a feeling or hunch? No, but I’ll still be optimistic about it.

by I need more Esteban on May 22, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

no evidence,

but the fact that it’s happened in the past doesn’t mean it’s going to happen this year. sure, i’m looking at it a little pessimistically, i admit. but, what i’m saying is that if they don’t start playing better fundamental baseball, it’s not going to matter who we play, we’re going to lose more than we win.

let me put it this way – are the cardinals better than baltimore or cleveland? i would say they are at the very minimum equal to the cardinals. so, having played poorly and given away 2-3 games in those two series alone (and played poorly enough to give away at least one more), what tells us that right now, this team is poised to go win 2/3 from them with the current way we’re playing? I sure hope they do, but the problem now is that even if they start playing better, they’re going up against teams with more talent.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 22, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed, and I noted that

but I’m still hopeful that we can win a 3 of the 4 interleague series or close to that.

And yes, we have to play a lot better fundamentally.

by I need more Esteban on May 22, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Team speed

I went to the game for the first time this season yesterday, and what struck me was how slow the Royals are in the infield, as well as Grandpa Guillen in right field. In the inning when Greinke gave up two runs, only one of those hits was well hit. There were at least two hits where an infielder with average speed has a good shot at preventing the hit. If all the infielders were hitting like Callaspo, the team could live with it. With Crisp out yesterday, you could also see the affect of not having him there to make up for Jose’s lack of range.

Inconsistant defense to go along with inconsistant offense is going wipe out the terrific job the starting pitching staff has been doing.

by Valcour on May 22, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions  

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