The Biggest Royal Slide Since the French Revolution Continues
by Freneau on May 25, 2009 9:45 PM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintCatching up after a long weekend on the road...
- On May 7th, the Royals were 18-11. Since that date, they've gone 4-12. The Royals are about two days from being closer to last than first place. At 22-23, the Royals merely seem like part of the huge pack of mediocre teams around baseball this season. Twelve teams currently have between 20 and 23 wins (inclusive). It's like one day we woke up and the entire game was one big version of the NL Central. I don't like this world.
- With none of their rivals truly playing well the Tigers have an opportunity to distance themselves in the Central. You know what's funny about this division, you can almost perfectly order the teams inversely by how many games they've played against the AL East: Detroit-7, KC-11, Minnesota-16, CWS-14, Cleveland-18.
- Can you imagine where the Royals would be without the reemergence of Brian Bannister?
- Gil Meche is struggling. He's posted a game score below 50 in five of his last six starts and has killed the bullpen more than once this month.
- Of course, in bizarro Royals world, who is or isn't hurt doesn't jive clearly with who goes on the DL and who stays around. I'm dreading a scenario in which Meche slogs through three more laborious starts, then hits the DL for a 15-day stint that turns into two months. But the good news is is that no other Royal players have had similar things happen this season, so why should I be worried?
- Speaking of today's game, Hillman's curious bullpen usage continues. It is not so much that he's uniformly horrible -- he isn't -- or even that he's generic, it's just that... that... he's good for 0.75 head scratchers a game. Mahay in a 7-0 game? Wright in a 9-1 game in the 9th? Perhaps the root issue here is the fact that the Royals simply have a strange collection of guys out in the 'pen. I don't know.
- Did you sell high on Jamey Wright in your fantasy league?
- Offensively, it just looks like everyone is cold. Callaspo and Bloomquist (see below) are racing one another to see who can get from .380 to .300 faster, which is especially brutal since they are singles-based players to begin with. Butler, Jacobs & Guillen all have cooled off, and only DDJ appears to be really "hot" right now. Sadly, this isn't truly shocking, as at times it has looked like GMDM has been attempting to construct a boom/bust or feast/famine lineup. The nice thing about OBP guys is that drawing walks tends to be a steady skill. The Royals don't have those kinds of players, outside of Crisp and DDJ. The lineup misses Alex Gordon. (edit: actually Guillen and Butler have been decent, see comments)
- It's fun having Luis Hernandez around. In nearly a month he's now collected nine plate appearances.
- Did you notice Bloomy went 0-3 today? On May 3rd Bloomquist was hitting .372/.462/.558. I hope everyone enjoyed that first month, because it is likely to stand as his greatest time as a Royal. Prior to today's 0-3, Bloomquist had followed that hot start with a .237/.286/.263 stretch.
- Here's the team's runs scored numbers during this 4-12 stretch: 1,0,3,3,2,5,8,2,7,6,5,3,0,0,3,1. The Royals have scored two runs or fewer in eighteen games this season.
- I nominate The Jacobs Creature as Mike Jacobs's new nickname.
- In case you missed it, I did a podcast with Lee Warren of Royals Reflections on Friday. What could be better than setting your settings to "shuffle" heading to the gym, and halfway through your treadmill workout landing on an hour+ conversation about the Royals?
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Thanks to the power of Memorial Day free-time...
The Jacobs Creature pic is done in record time.
Bringing the optimism to Royals Review, it's...
by ratherfantastic on May 25, 2009 9:57 PM EDT reply actions
wow
everybody is either falling down drunk from memorial day or people are needing to take some time off from the royales (myself probably included-i could probably use a 15-day stint on the “DL”)
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 10:03 PM EDT reply actions
that sounds good
let’s hope i get the rest i need so i don’t get some “cascading” injuries.
actually, i may go all john bale and be out for a while if this misery continues.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You're just tired
let’s give it 5-10 games. You might even need to get more regular Royal watching in. I’m sure it isn’t serious.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 25, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Torn Rotator Cup
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 26, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Good Podcast btw
Bringing the optimism to Royals Review, it's...
by ratherfantastic on May 25, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions
Guillen has a 917 OPS the previous 10 games to today
and an 883 for the month. Butler has an 838 prior to today in the previous 10 games and hit Verlander as hard as anyone in the lineup.
It was pretty depressing being at the game and watch the team lay down pretty much in the first inning. The crusher was maybe the DDJ GIDP when it was 4-0 as Butler and Guillen both singled if DDJ gets on maybe it’s a different game but probably not.
Colon looked alright and Billy appears to be squarin up the ball, I thought his 3rd AB was a wallshot, not sure but the wind must have hung it up. He and Guillen seem to be having solid AB’s.
Trey should consider moving Coco down in the order and moving DDJ to the leadoff spot and hit Alberto 2nd. Billy and JoGui need some runners on in front of them.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
Good thing Guillen's glove isn't giving away two runs above average for every one he creates
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 25, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He fucking sucks, as does the last 16 games
by 2LegittoShit on May 25, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
"As Do" Or
“As did”.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 26, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Not only was the shot at 4-3 that we missed killer,
but we come back out and give up 3 more runs. COULD have 4-1/2/3 and it became 7-0. That’s when I wrote off the game.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
i was at the game
and you could basically tell it was over after 4-0. team basically looked horrible
realistically speaking
Yeah, same here.
Had 2 guys on and Jacobs at the plate, right?
I thought the K came alive for a moment there, but afterwards the ship had sailed.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
First off id say Butler is preety hot.. and is hotter than DDJ
Secondly I don’t agree that Alberto is a singles hitter.. he is 2nd in the league in doubles.. has a triple and 2 homers
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
Disclaimer: I'm a huge Bam Bam fan
but I think he’s not just hot, but coming around. I’m expecting .300+ out of Billy the rest of the way this season.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 25, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I went to the K today.....
And let me tell ya it was the worst display of live professional baseball I have ever experienced. 34 innings and four runs. Pathetic. The crowd of 35,000 plus didnt care. What was there to care about? I am critical only because I felt this team had a slight chance. Is it early? NO, its not anymore. Players should be hitting their stride and displaying a little more inning to inning. I have been openly criticized often on this site but when I tell you its close to panic time I mean it. Soria, Tejeda, and Gordon have been/will be missed. However, what i saw today was unaccepatble. EMBARRASING. This series means a whole lot, esp coming off of the wing and a prayer in St Louis and there was nothing for me to see as a positive. While drinking beer essentially equals baseball today was absurd. I know its memorial day but what the hell. The tigers limped into this series(Only the last series) and we were at home and had nothing to offer. Is there really anything left to be excited about? I do NOT want to hear any “long term” or “the future is bright” type of comments. Address what should be obvious, This team costs more money and has provided nothing lately. The words like “grit”, “tenacity”, ect ect are a running joke on RR but I am afraid that words like shitty, uninterested, lazy, anemic, are beginning to creep in(rightfully so i might add). Today was terrible. Period. (While maintaining and appreciating the armed forces more than ever).
Don't overreact
Everyone including me thought the Cleveland comeback was something that could be built on, it wasn’t. This sucked today as someone who was there yes it blew chunks but the team could very easily win the next 5 in a row.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
I dont consider this an overreaction.
Frustration? Absolutely. And you say they “could easily win the next five in a row”. Why? This team loves playing down to competition and refuses to get up when it matters the most. Im playing a little devils advocate here but seriously, what leads you to believe that? Im not being a dick but if your response resembles “it s baseball” my vomit will resemble something oddly similar to Magglio Ordonez’s perm.
by 2LegittoShit on May 25, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i think
it’s a team that overachieved record-wise last year by having a stellar month of September (pythag was 72-90 i believe) that is playing very poorly right now AND is missing some significant players AND has pissed away some games it could have won AND has played predictably poor defense. will it turn around? i don’t know. this team is better on paper than last year’s team, much better. but, they have got to start showing something, the long-suffering fans DESERVE them to show something.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear ya but answer me this..... Do you/anyone think we could win the next five?
If you do I love your spirit and you should find a job in the pupit.
by 2LegittoShit on May 25, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
no, probably not
but then again, the 2002 Royals that lost 100 games won 9 in a row at one point. this team is better than recent vintages. what i see is teams doing a lot of the “little things” that we aren’t doing, for example brian roberts stealing 2nd and 3rd and scoring on a wild pitch in a game we lost 3-2, or laying down bunt singles, or keeping our runners at first. i know it’s not statistically measurable really, but it’s like when a basketball team goes on a run, the other team is just always a step slow. it’s like we’re on our heels all the time. in baseball it’s “making adjustments”. it doesn’t seem like the royals have “adjusted back” to the adjustments that teams have made on us.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I appreciate your insight and i agree totally....
I have major concerns up and down the lineup. Not only on o but def d. Crisp has lost the whole vet leadership type of roll by not hitting, stealing bases, hitting fucking cut off men, ect. Aviles Fail. Hoch Fail. Ponson Fail. HoRam Fail. Callaspo=destined for.279. Teahen=Fail. Guillen=Disabled. Meche=Waste. Bloomy=not everyday. DDJ= Ehhh. Catching=Terrible o and d and no value. Bullpen=Hemorhaging. Hillman=too laid back(tai kwon doe). Soria, Gordon, Tejeda, Aviles(kinda)=Unavailable. I mean situational hitting obviously isnt stressed enough. If by some Wish Foundation miracle we stay in the race I still have fading hope.
by 2LegittoShit on May 25, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
this is what i was saying
on my post re: blowing the team up. this team has two or three guys that should be DH, a butcher at 2B, terrible defense in right, a LF who doesn’t provide enough pop, and subpar performance from the bullpen. the thing about it is, where are we going to make changes? we’re maxed out probably on payroll, and unless we make a significant trade or two this same team is coming back next year. then, you’re HOPING that Moose, Hosmer, and Cortes are legitimate prospects, but what if they’re not? this organization, as good as a job as they’ve done improving the farm system, is still short on legitimate prospects.
and, the players that are in the majors right now are not good enough by themselves to make us a contending ballclub.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya they could...Sounds like they are skipping the 5th starter
so Zack will pitch twice in the next 5 games and with Kyle Davies and Bannister pitching better there is a shot. It’s not likely but Zack going in 2 of the 5 the chances are better than one would think.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
We could win the next 5 purely because
Greinke will start 2 of them, with Banny starting 1. That leaves Davies vs Porcello, who we already hit pretty well this year, and Meche vs Buehrle Saturday. Granted, the Meche game could be difficult to win – but it’s not as far-fetched as it sounds on the surface.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Massive overreaction
Bourn out of emotion and not thought. The Royals had a really good stretch and now they are on a bad stretch. Neither stretch is the “real” Royals. The “real” Royals are somewhere in between. Let’s not overreact too much to the good or the bad. It’s a long season.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I believe the real team is a tick
below. Lets hope the other teams are not better than us, that will push us farther down (IE Tigers)
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
Exactly
Which is why it seems odd that many are acting like the sky is falling.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
This collapse can be traced back to the TPJ injury.
I anxiously await his return……………….
He's Our Lucky
Charm this year. Having him available and not playing him made Trey a much better manager.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 26, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Ouch
Though on the bright side, 22-23 is a lot better than things could’ve been. Thank god for WFB.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
see above
it could also be a lot better. i am obviously very despondent about the team right now, but i’m really trying to stay +. it seems like almost everything that could have gone wrong this year has gone wrong. i think this team really does miss gordon’s bat (and glove) in the lineup, and our bullpen has been significantly hurt by everyone having to move up a spot to compensate for soria’s loss. now we’re going to throw a possible meche dl stint (just my speculation) on top of everything else. god let’s hope that doesn’t happen, because if we don’t have good pitching, this team is going to collapse.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I personally think Gil Meche is garbage. Why you ask?
Because no one that gets paid 11 mil a year should have conditioning issues. Does he back problems? Maybe, and saddly enough, I hope so. And we can run in circles about what happened first. The back or the conditioning. Its all bullshit. He has, outside of Luke Choke-evar, been the least consistent starter in the rotation(Pontoon and HoRam are dead to me so they dont count).
by 2LegittoShit on May 25, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think he's garbage
by any means. he’s been an outstanding pitcher for us and up until this point worth the money we’ve paid him. he’s been so-so this year and was terrible today. simply put, he needs to do better.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Answer me why someone paid that much money wouldnt be in shape? And his first ten starts the past two seasons have been fucking awful.
Disagree with him being worth the money thing. He is not worth being a top three, if not first, highest paid player on the team. This is not a reaction to a bad year. Look at the stats. Meche pitches better when nothing is on the line. He is not one to be counted on. Point and case today. The “he’s off”excuse wont fly.
by 2LegittoShit on May 25, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Gil Meche is garbage?
Is this a joke? Have you seen his stats? He’s very, very good and has more than earned his contract money.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
NY take this the way you should, please
This is an open argument discussion board yet all you do is rebuttal which takes the fun out of the whole process. Make an argument and let me rebuttal just once. It will feel different and put you into unknown territory but just because i disagree doesnt mean you have to accentuate the NY in your username. You make great points given the right situation but it seems to me you wait for an opportunity to attack others because you know more three or four letter stats. This is not meant to make you angry but I would rather your actual post than your responses.
by 2LegittoShit on May 26, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
This is an open argument discussion board yet all you do is rebuttal which takes the fun out of the whole process.
Isn’t a big part of “an open argument discussion board” people making comments and then others replying with agreement, disagreement, etc.?
Make an argument and let me rebuttal just once. It will feel different and put you into unknown territory
Huh? Why? Because people never disagree with my statements? Of course they do. And that kind of discussion (involving agreement, disagreement, extension, etc.) is a good thing.
You make great points given the right situation but it seems to me you wait for an opportunity to attack others because you know more three or four letter stats.
When I read something I want respond to, I respond do it. I’m not laying in wait (or is it lying in wait?) to pounce on some unsuspecting commenter. If you post something in an “open argument discussion board” you should expect people to respond. Some will likely agree. Some will likely disagree. If you can’t handle both, then you probably shouldn’t post on open argument discussion boards. But I’m sure you can handle it.
When someone says something completely indefensible like “Gil Meche is garbage,” I’m going to respond. And, by the way, that statement is indefensible using any stat.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
something is off with meche...
(just vaguely on the meche topic, not on if he is garbage here)
i’d like to see him skip his next start… he’s had a rough patch
He's been having some back problems
But you have to like the results. Very good FIP and tRA (in the #1 SP range).
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
just went over to fangraphs...
his FIP is still great, so I guess the numbers behind the scenes recently also remain good…
huh
well, that’s the data I guess… I’ve been wrong before
He's certainly been worse in his last five or six starts than in the starts before that
But I think it makes a lot more sense to look at the overall numbers to see how good he’s been. But again, clearly (as has been reported repeatedly in the sports news media), he has been dealing with a back problem.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I like your passion, your stats, and what you have to say...
I wont have three pictures, quotes, ect but I really do respect your work on here. I mean it. I am sure you have been a royals fan longer than I but at what point will you look at what Meche has done when it matters? His CTB is 2,775,469 which puts him in the bottom of the american league or the top depending on interpretation. Truth be known you re an excellent statistician and you bring alot to the table. However, the garbage comment doesnt mean you need to pull out your calculator and get excited
by 2LegittoShit on May 26, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
but at what point will you look at what Meche has done when it matters?
I don’t know what this means. He doesn’t pitch well “when it matters?” When does it “matter”? Don’t all of his starts “matter”? Has he failed the Royals in pennant race games? Have the Royals had any pennant race games since he’s been here? It kind of seems like you pulled the “he doesn’t pitch well when it matters” thing straight out of your ass.
However, the garbage comment doesnt mean you need to pull out your calculator and get excited
If I’m telling you that your statement is wrong and unsupportable, is that “getting excited”? Trust me, it wasn’t very exciting. I’m just pointing out that your BS is BS.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
We root for the same team yet we couldnt disagree more.....
In the honor of memorial day take a deep breath pal. We want the same thing regarding the royals. While I might seem a bit hostile, its not that way at all. Furthermore, while I might not be a fan favorite on RR perhaps you should have a red bull, a deap intake of oxygen and realize that you have been a running joke in certain threads,
by 2LegittoShit on May 26, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don't know what you're talking about
I’m calm. This isn’t a big deal. You said Meche was garbage and that he doesn’t pitch well when it matters. I stated my disagreement. It’s that simple.
and realize that you have been a running joke in certain threads,
Ok, now you’re being a jerk. Desist. I’ve been here for quite a while. I understand that my confrontational and often argumentative style doesn’t make me the most popular person. In case you haven’t figured it out yet, I don’t care.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No not being a jerk I imagine we re pretty similar
You and i have a real passion for whats happening right now. I do feel that we have different ideas about the present. I have no personal issues with you and I am not a favorite on here either. However, you will NEVER throw random stats at me make me believe that Gil Meche is one of the top three ingredients to this team. I will admit that regarding ingredients its a pretty bland club. In closing, “in case you havent figured it out yet” I dont care what you think either.
by 2LegittoShit on May 26, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
No not being a jerk
That comment about me being a “running joke in certain threads” was very jerky. You don’t have to stoop to that level. Different ideas about the team, players, management, etc. are fine. They are great. I love a good debate. If everyone here agreed with me, this place would be extremely boring for me. Just when you post something, don’t be surprised if someone shares their disagreement with you.
However, you will NEVER throw random stats at me make me believe that Gil Meche is one of the top three ingredients to this team.
I won’t try because you’re not interested in the facts regarding Meche. You’ve just got a bad feeling about him. Certainly none of the facts support any of your assertions with regard to Meche. To be quite honest, I have no idea where you get your opinion of him from. I’m going to guess that you watched a couple of games which you convinced yourself were “important” and he didn’t pitch well, which led you to jump to the conclusion that he’s not “clutch” enough to pitch well “when it matters.”
And, by the way, it isn’t some “random stats” which support the assertion that Meche is a very good starting pitcher. It’s basically any and all stats.
In closing, "in case you havent figured it out yet" I dont care what you think either.
Um, I didn’t say that I didn’t care what you think. What I said — which you can see if you’ll read above — is that I don’t care whether or not I’m popular here.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Meche isn't garbage
Obviously. The huge disconnect between his FIP and his ERA indicate he should start seeing better results soon. He wasn’t good today, but EVERY pitcher goes through rough patches, even good ones who are being paid a lot of money.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
Long as usual.......
But I tell ya what, we dont have to agree on Meche. I truly do respect the fact that you find the ups and downs tough, as do i. You bring alot to the table and I am glad to read your stuff. Ill admit the “running joke” thing was a step for the negative and i apologize. However, you strike me as a heated human being as am I regarding a struggling club. We both want the same thing but might envision diffeent paths to get there. I apologize for the memorial day spice, however i hold fast on my opinions
by 2LegittoShit on May 26, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
No problem
And remember. We will agree and disagree in the future. Don’t take it personally.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
have we scored more than one run in a game yet?
where tpj used to happen but no longer does due to his current dl status.
by blue bandwagon on May 25, 2009 11:13 PM EDT reply actions
Ugh, all i can say is.
I hope Greinke is lights out tomorrow, and we damn well better win. Because if we don’t, we’re 5 out…and basically from swirling the drain, to down the drain.
realistically speaking
Agreed.
But 13-1 and if Greinke gets beat, the town will call it a season.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
basically
it’s not that we’ll be 5 games out. it’s that we’ll be 4-13 in our last 17 games. Folks, we’re a quarter of the way through the season – and that will mean we’ve spent almost half of it playing godawful baseball. This is more than a stretch, this is turning into a trend. We’re past 6 game losing streak, and going on “twenty straight games of suck”.
realistically speaking
agreed
this is now past just one losing streak, this has been a sustained stretch of terrible baseball and it seems like it has no end.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but
by mid-september it could be 25 games the way we’re playing. for me, it’s not losing the division lead, not contending, it’s being a horrible baseball team again when we thought we were making progress. this feels to me somewhat like the same song and dance we’ve been through the past 15 years. specifically, i’m not seeing the progress i think we need from butler, gordon, and hochevar. these guys have been OK (butler), non-existent (gordon) or downright horrible (luke). i mean, i realize that how jacobs and crisp do aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things, but three of our key pieces aren’t getting it done.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You have no perspective
None.
yeah but by mid-september it could be 25 games the way we’re playing
One could have said the same thing, but on the positive side back when the Royals were hot. And it would have been equally wrong and silly.
for me, it’s not losing the division lead, not contending, it’s being a horrible baseball team again when we thought we were making progress.
The Royals are making progress. They’re basically a .500 team. That’s progress. The pitching is much better and the hitting is a little better. That’s progress.
this feels to me somewhat like the same song and dance we’ve been through the past 15 years.
It may feel that way, but if you were to think instead of feel, you’d see that the team is better. The numbers show it. It’s called progress.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree that there has been progress made
however, is this where the team is going to top out, on the fringes of .500? dont’ get me wrong, i am happy that we are making progress. but i take a look at this team and there are still so many holes, and i do have some doubt that we’re going to have enough in the minor leagues to really become a contending team.
the glut of 1B/DH types, the suboptimal solutions at 2B/SS/RF, and it is hard for me to see how to fill those holes, especially considering that we’ve got little to offer in the high minors at those positions without significantly increasing payroll, which i have doubts that we’ll do.
i am probably overreacting to the downside, but all of the team’s shortcomings have come home to roost at once and it has been ugly. so, taking the good and bad parts, you’ve got a team right now with limited upside in the short-term (meaning this year) and in my opinion, not enough options to improve the team in the medium-term (meaning in the next year or two).
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 26, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
however, is this where the team is going to top out, on the fringes of .500?
I don’t think so. Why would you think so? (if you do) When a team improves (as it has over the past few seasons), it often does so step by step. 2007 was an improvement over 2006. 2008 was an improvement over 2007. So far 2009 has been an improvement over 2008. Why should we expect the improvements to stop? Because the young players like Butler, Gordon and Hochevar aren’t going to improve anymore? I think most analysts (and projection systems) say and will continue to say that they expect improvement from them in the coming years.
but i take a look at this team and there are still so many holes, and i do have some doubt that we’re going to have enough in the minor leagues to really become a contending team.
First, even contending teams have holes. Second, the Royals have a very good minor league system. Third, strengths in the minors (like pitching) can — at an appropriate time — be traded for areas of weakness to fill holes.
the glut of 1B/DH types
Butler, Jacobs, Kila. Is three really a glut?
the suboptimal solutions at 2B/SS/RF
No organization has quality depth at every position. Again, strengths can be traded to shore up weaknesses.
but all of the team’s shortcomings have come home to roost at once
And yet the team is still right around .500. Shouldn’t that make you feel good?
so, taking the good and bad parts, you’ve got a team right now with limited upside in the short-term (meaning this year)
Didn’t most people expect this to be a .500ish team this year? So sure, that’s a limited upside. It’s progress. Progress is a good thing.
and in my opinion, not enough options to improve the team in the medium-term (meaning in the next year or two).
Options to improve the team in the medium-term (in no particular order):
1. Prospects
2. Free agency
3. Trades
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
dont forget jogui in the glut
Fire Hillman
by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that phrase, "dont forget jogui in the glut" just made me chuckle for some reason
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 26, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I've always a been a Teahen fan,
but so much for the supposed problem once Alex Gordon is healthy. Teahen is back around where he always is.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
how do we even know john bales thyroid even existed…
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
by AvilesRotY on May 25, 2009 11:25 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
man, I've been trying to make a Bale/existence joke since he came back
and you nailed it
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 25, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If The Jawnbeowl
Did not exist, he would have to be invented.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 26, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
sadly i watched a lot of this game
hoping its just a game from hell
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
Also, I'm not really convinced this team is any better than its playing..
Teahen has regressed to what he is, AC has probably regressed to what he is, DDJ will probably improve a bit, Jacobs is doing what we expected, Butler and Guillen are hitting… I mean really, where do you expect the improvement to come from? for christ sakes we’re starting willie f’in bloomquist at shortstop, our bullpen is in shambles, our “number 1” pitcher looks like garbage, our franchise player at 3rd base is on the DL… just not sure what is supposed to magically improve.
realistically speaking
we're better than we're currently playing
this isn’t a 120-loss team. but, all of the potential warts that this team has (bad defense, suspect managerial moves, lack of offense, worse bullpen) have all been on full display the past two + weeks.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, we're better, but how much
i’m not sure we’re that much better. maybe a .500 club, but even now i’m having my doubts about that. I just don’t see many reasons for optimism
realistically speaking
i agree with you
i think if we really want to improve the organization, we’re going to have to look at making some significant trades to improve our depth in the high minors. maybe we don’t do it during the season (i’ve somewhat backed off on doing it mid-season, it would be a pr nightmare), but who’s to say we don’t trade meche in the off-season and bring back some real prospects, or trade from our glut of 1B/DH types to bring in some middle infield help? kaaihue might be good, jacobs might have some power, but they’re not doing us any good, why not trade one of them, or trade butler and bring back some real return? we’ve got to do something IMO to address our shortcomings
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Trading Billy now
would piss me off. (not that anyone cares)
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
would it piss you off
if we traded butler for a legitimate SS prospect and slide Kaaihue to first? i don’t know if that’s the right thing to do necessarily, but if we think that billy’s going to be a 10-15 HR guy that hits for a .290 average and is an average defender, would it make the team better to trade him for a legit SS and maybe an A-ball pitcher?
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 25, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
Sorry, but I believe Billy is the type of guy that will play first base with a small downside and rake at the plate. I honestly do believe Billy is going to be a 300+ hitter. What good would it do to trade a guy like that?
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
Not to mention
that Billy is showing he is going to hit MLB pitching while Kila is still a pipe dream.
Not saying that Kila should stay a pipe dream, but that is all he is right now.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
Kila isn't a pipe dream
He’s a good prospect. There’s a difference.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
i responded to you above
and i have backed off a bit on some of the moves i would make (at least doing them in-season) but if kila is really a good prospect, then maybe we do consider trading butler (or kila, although i don’t think he would net the type of prospects we’re looking for) and get some players to fill some holes. they can’t both play, and might as well use some of that depth to improve in areas where we’re clearly lacking.
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 26, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I Would Trade
Butler, Gordon and Greinke for the right package, and no, I couldn’t say what that would be right off the top of my hand. It would not, however, include Jeff Francoeur.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 26, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Trading
I’d certainly consider trading someone. But my choice would be Jacobs. His power would likely be overvalued by someone and he’s going to be increasingly expensive the next couple of seasons.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
or San Francisco
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 26, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
or that team with the Gm who never values position players right,
especially low-OBP guys with power and no defensive skills
who was that? I think t hey’re in the AL Central…
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 26, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
This
And i would call up Kila to DH. He’s hot (another two hits, 1 a Jack today) and most importantly he A: Gets on base at a hard-on inducing level, and B: Does it exceptionally well against both RHP and LHP, even if he doesn’t hit Lefties as well.
by kcbottom9th on May 26, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
The new avatar is hilarious Warden.
It’s about time for a Deliverance remake.
by hunter s. royal on May 25, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW, he could be back next week
Rehab appearances in extended spring training scheduled for Wednesday and Saturday. If all goes well, he would then fly to KC Saturday night or Sunday to be evaluated and then potentially off the DL shortly thereafter.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
what about a 13-1 game makes you miss Joakim?
Fire Hillman
by billybeingbilly on May 26, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
the Royals are losing because they don't have that "psychological edge" anymore
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 26, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
there's a damned problem on several fronts
1) the middle of the infield is too slow
2) the hitters basically wilt when someone is on third or when there’s a big RISP situation
to add to #1.. Callaspo is a good hitter, and too slow for a second baseman. And when his double play partner is Willie Bloomquist (who falls, instead of diving).. it looks a lot worse. If you hit the ball up the middle, you’ll probably get a hit off of the Royals.
Willie Bloomquist is like crack. He seemed really good in the first month, and Hillman is going to keep trying to up his dosage of Bloomquist to try and get a reproduction of Willie’s April.
2) the hitters basically wilt when someone is on third or when there’s a big RISP situation
Aren’t the Royals actually hitting pretty well with RISP? You keep making this “they’re not clutch” argument and it just doesn’t hold water. They are just as good/bad in clutch situations as they are in non-clutch situations. Actually, they have been better in clutch situations than non-clutch situations. The problem with the offense isn’t that they aren’t clutch. It’s that, overall, it’s not a good hitting team.
to add to #1.. Callaspo is a good hitter, and too slow for a second baseman.
His hitting more than makes up for his below average defense. And with any player at any position, all that matters is the difference between the runs they create with their hitting and the runs the prevent with their defense. Callaspo’s run differential has been exceptional. That’s why he has the second highest WAR of any Royals position player.
Willie Bloomquist is like crack. He seemed really good in the first month, and Hillman is going to keep trying to up his dosage of Bloomquist to try and get a reproduction of Willie’s April.
No, I don’t think so. I think he’s going to keep playing him a lot while injuries force him to. When Aviles and Gordon come back, he’ll get little playing time.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Hm
Aren’t the Royals actually hitting pretty well with RISP?
8th out of 14 is not “pretty well” in any book. It’s below average.
For a team that is hitting “pretty well” with RISP, the Royals are 12th of 14 in runs per game.
Also, you still ignore that the Royals hitting with a runner on third is a lot closer to 12th place than 8th place.
They have 449 PA with RISP, which is 11th of 14th out of AL teams. So obviously something is going wrong when almost every other AL team puts people on 2nd and 3rd more often. But they hit pretty well with RISP. They’re slightly below average, which is the clutchiest kind of clutch.
When Aviles and Gordon come back, he’ll get little playing time.
That’ll be like.. when… July or August?
When Trey gets hooked, he keeps finding ways to put his guys in the lineup.
This is pretty simple
8th out of 14 is not "pretty well" in any book. It’s below average.
Yes, and hitting better in that kind of key “clutch” situation than in other, non-clutch situations. So, for the millionth time, the Royals problem isn’t that they don’t perform well in the clutch. The problem is that it isn’t a good hitting team. “Clutch” isn’t the issue at all.
Also, you still ignore that the Royals hitting with a runner on third is a lot closer to 12th place than 8th place.
Their hitting overall is a lot closer to 12th place than 8th place. The problem isn’t “clutch”; it’s hitting in general.
That’ll be like.. when… July or August?
Probably mid-June for Aviles and late June or early July for Gordon.
When Trey gets hooked, he keeps finding ways to put his guys in the lineup.
Like how he made Bloomquist the starting 2B when Gordon got injured and Teahen moved to 3B? Oh wait, he didn’t. But I guess Trey must have gotten “hooked” on Bloomy by now and made him the starting second baseman. Nope, don’t think that has happened either. Did Hillman get “hooked” on Gathright last year and find ways of getting him into the lineup? No. Gathright was a typical 4th OFer who was only in the lineup when an OFer was injured or when someone needed a day off. And how often did TPJ play after Aviles was called up? Very little. So basically this “HIllman gets hooked on shitty players and plays them all the time” is just about Gload. Get over it.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
To #2
Yes. The team is hitting .266/.348/.439 with RISP. Good for a sOPS+ of 102. Average (maybe a touch below in the AL with the DH).
They hit extraordinarily badly with the bases loaded, but very well indeed with guys on 1st and 3rd. It’ll all even out in the end.
by kcbottom9th on May 26, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
perhaps
our hitters just get distracted by having runners on second ruining their hitting background
And fans tend to get distracted by meaningless crap.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank God, I'm a Padres fan. Now there's a team with talent.
I think that our record is despicable, and we should trade our team straight up for theirs. They have won ten straight. The Padres of the last two weeks are going to win the World Series. Now, sure I thought the same after our six game winning streak, but obviously our 22-23 Royals cannot hack it with the rest of the league. I bet that we will finish with 60 wins and the Padres with 120, that’s just from observing the past two weeks.
So the season is 162 games long, who fuckin’ cares? I want to have the best record in May, and if not, I’m willing to trade all of my decent players who are still young for Orlando Cabrera and perhaps Torii Hunter. His grit alone will win us games, while that Coco Crisp can go to hell. Oh, and Jose Guillen needs to stay, all of you guys fucking suck for not recognizing how much his RBIs made us the greatest team ever last year.
I now have chosen to forever abandon this sorry excuse for a baseball team, and therefore excuse myself the suffering of a typical fan. I only tread where the weather is fair. Go Red Devils, Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, Celtics, Patriots, Cowboys, and US Olympic basketball.
I haven’t seen this many people jump ship this quickly since it was announced Carrot Top was performing on my Spring Break cruise. It was horrific, since we were still docked. They could have just walked off, instead it was like the Naked Gun. My father went the exact same way.
"It’s not about the guacamole itself," Greinke said. "I just don’t want to let them win."
by Joseph Landis on May 26, 2009 5:08 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
that's funny
the comment about carrot top, i mean.
i don’t think it’s jumping ship (i’m certainly not) but they’ve got to start showing something here soon. some of these young players need to really start producing. butler has started but still isn’t hitting for the power you’d like (OPS+ of 112).
I hereby resign from this post.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on May 26, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Good news about this weekend's debacles
Someone mentioned that if Mike Jacobs broke Steve Balboni’s team home run record that it would be unfairly tainted by the fact that Balboni never got the chance to feast on NL pitching. So far, Jacobs’ HR numbers have not benefitted from facing NL pitchers, so if he breaks the record, it will be clean.
Where’s the Gil Meche we came to love these past 2 years? And where’s Miracle Bob McClure?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Greinke wins tonight,
and the team takes a winnable game Wednesday (Davies vs Porcello, who we have already beaten once), and suddenly we are all reading optimistic posts again.
This scenario is not very far-fetched at all, IMHO.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
ah, the rollercoaster ride of sports fandom
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 26, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
is that what is causing that funny feeling in the pit of my stomach?
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Something to throw out there
Our middle infield defense is really bothering me. Slow rollers going up the middle and no one being near them is starting to get on my nerves. Why not give Luis Hernandez a start? I actually don’t know how good his range is so someone could maybe help me out, but I know it’s got to be better than Willie Ballgame’s.
Also, I can’t believe I’m writing this, but if TPJ was around right now (with Aviles on the DL), I would be calling to start him a couple games. Screw the lost plate appearances, we have to have better defense now.
by I need more Esteban on May 26, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
But we need some offense too
We’ve scored pathetically little. That said, I can’t imagine that TPJ can’t hit at least as “well” as this year’s version of Mike Aviles.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
KC really needs Teahen and Coco to get goin again.
I doubt that there is one player on this team that can carry the team offensively to wins. Maybe JoGui if he hit similarly to the way he did during his Hot Streak last season. With no real one Offensive Force KC can’t have 2 of their starters struggling the way they are.
Teahens peak May OPS was .861 on May 10 since then he is hitting .158 and his OPS has dropped to .751.
Coco’s peak was on May 12 .853 and since then he has OPS’d .453 and dropped to .751 as well.
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
A sad and possibly damning possibility
Moore could be reviewing the offense and scratching his head at why they haven’t scored an optimal number of runs. Once again, I think the offense is the main (certainly not the only) culprit of this recent 4-12 stretch. It seems offense has continued to be anemic at times during these losing streaks, and mediocre at best, overall, over the course of the entire season. If Moore is truly seeking Francoeur as a remedy for many of our woes, then we should truly be worried.
Although I like Moore’s philosophy that pitching is a currency of baseball, I think outs are an even greater means of currency. Many of the players Moore has acquired have been out-makers in the lineup, and not exactly defensive wizards (a new Moneyball philosophy). That’s the damning indication here. Moore’s approach with regard to position players has been flawed, and it’s been indicative every season.
(Although, generally, the offense has actually slightly exceeded my expectations this season).
by Royals Nation on May 26, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If Moore is truly seeking Francoeur as a remedy for many of our woes, then we should truly be worried.
I don’t believe there is even an unsubstantiated rumor to that effect. Rosenthal’s speculation that if anyone is interested in Francoeur, it would be the Royals doesn’t even count as a rumor of interest. It’s just guesswork that the Royals might have some interest.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 26, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
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