16,366? That's embarassing
by loyal2sdad on May 27, 2009 5:47 PM EDT
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This is what I have been trying to get at with a few of my recent comments in other posts - Kansas City should be embarassed by it's small base of hardcore fans.
16,366 to see what arguably is the best story in MLB this season? That's just sad. I've been arguing that the only thing that draws in fans to the K is if tickets are severely discounted, concessions are virtually given away (buck night), or there is a promotional give away. My thoughts have been met with some arguments, but after last night, I think it's fairly evident that my theory is correct, in general. After all, the place sold out on Memorial Day (without looking it up, I can tell you past Memorial Days have not been a particularly good draw) SOLELY because it was a buck night and $5 ticket day.
So, what's my point, you ask? Well, put yourself in David Glass' shoes. You have upped your payroll in a recession, seemingly committed to winning for the first time by substantially increasing your outlay on the draft and minor leagues, and you have a pitcher in the middle of what could be an all-time historic season going against the division leader while your team is in 2nd and by most reasonable accounts, still a part of the division race. School is now out in most of KC. You open the paper the next morning to find only 16,366 people bothered to attend. You have to be asking yourself: when, pray tell, will your fanbase match the increase dedication you are showing?
I realize, since I work at the K, a good argument can be made that I am in no position to criticize the fanbase, since I don't spend my money on tickets myself - but you'll just have to trust me when I say that if I was not working there, I would be doing everything I can to attend each and every Greinke start - regardless of the giveaways, discounts, or buck night schedules.
The real issue here, IMHO, is that the Royals have created a sorta minor league mentality with their fans. By that, I mean the fanbase has come to expect a myriad of discounts, buck nights, and giveaways, or they simply don't show up. Mere winning baseball, or the chance to see something special on the field, well that's simply NOT ENOUGH. If this organization wants to truly turn around and become a perennial division contender, including getting the attendance back up to 2.5 or 3.0 million (Moore has stated this as one of his goals), changing this part of the fan mentality may prove to be every bit as big an obstacle as winning itself. Sadly, the organization has resorted to cheapening it's own product by "giving" it away at seemingly every turn for the last decade and a half. Our fans have no clue what the cost of a good Major League experience is, and that will be a shock to them as they gradually discover it over the next few seasons.
Sorry if this post sounds a bit harsh - but it's honestly how I feel. I care deeply about this organization, and I want to see the rest of KC feel the same, and that includes supporting the team more appropriately, and coming to see BASEBALL as much as a $1 hot dog or to get a free crappy T-Shirt.
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It was the first game after Memorial Day weekend...
I imagine a lot of fans just stayed home recovering from a long holiday. I expect a big bump in attendance in Z’s next start at home.
You think ONE offseason of increased payroll and a non-fluke .500 ballclub...
is going to be enough to pack the house most (non-promotional) nights after 24 years of no playoff appearances (and very few years of real contention)?? Especially when most of those years were filled with ridiculously terrible baseball and inept organizational management?
The Royals have been killing baseball fans in this town over that period. Death by a thousand little losing cuts. Many younger fans have seen ONE year of somewhat exciting baseball in their LIFETIMES. It’s very difficult to cultivate a large base of hardcore baseball fans when you’ve had nothing but a godawful local product for them to go see for so long. People become distinterested, and spend their leisure time and money on some other sport or pursuit.
It’s going to take time to rehabilitate Kansas City baseball fans and bring many of them back from the dead. If this organization can field a team that plays .500 or better baseball (and have them at least within striking distance of a division title late in the year) for two years straight, THEN Glass might have room to complain. Until then, he’s still got a lot of work (and money) to put into his franchise before he can expect much more in the way of attendance.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 11 recs
Agree with Sweep the Leg and I would like to add
that Glass has no room to bitch. He’s been captain of this ship long enough and it just now (last 2 years) finally found A course, it might not even be the right course. This organization has been a mess for way too long to expect fans to come out in droves for a team that is still below .500.
I’d also add that Monday was damn close to a sell out, what happened? 13-1 spanking. Yes, Greinke probably should have a bigger bump. Answer this though, what would the attendance have been with any other pitcher on the mound? 10-11 thousand?
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
That's about right
So the true Greinke “bump” is only around 5k.
That’s my point – that should be much larger than that, don’t you think?
My God, this is the most exciting thing to happen to Royals baseball (save the faux contention on 03) since the late 80s.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
One more thing:
Sadly, the organization has resorted to cheapening it’s own product by “giving” it away at seemingly every turn for the last decade and a half. Our fans have no clue what the cost of a good Major League experience is, and that will be a shock to them as they gradually discover it over the next few seasons.
You think climbing the wall on balls that hit the warning track or getting hit in the back by throws from the outfield didn’t cheapen the product?
Not only do fans not know what the cost of a real Major League experience is, fans don’t know what real, sustained Major League baseball looks like.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed, plus claiming the organization was cheapening it's product by giving it away is ridiculous
I went to three Royals games last year (three hour drive for me) precisely BECAUSE I could get great seats for incredibly cheap. My seat, which was 3 rows up from home plate cost as much as a seat in Wrigley would have cost where I would have needed binoculars.
You think people are going to pay high dollars for the product that has been on the field lately?
by WanderingWanderer on May 27, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It was one bad night
I was disappointed with attendance last night too, but attendance is up overall by double digits, despite a recession, slumping season ticket sales, and reduced attendance all over the rest of baseball. I think our fans have done a fine job showing up this year. I was really surprised 34,000 made it out on Memorial Day. I thought everyone went to the lake on Memorial Day.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
You're missing my point
Yes, attendance is up – but fans are showing up for the freebies and the discounts, when they should be showing up to see Greinke instead, IMHO.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
I don't think that's necessarily true
The team has been giving freebies for years. Attendance is up this year though. It can’t just be the freebies.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
who cares why they are showing up?
You get the fans into the park by using the freebies and discounts, you get them to keep coming back by putting a quality team on the field.
by WanderingWanderer on May 27, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There have been 6 crowds of over 30,000 this year.
It is May 27.
Last season, there were 7 crowds over 30K all season.
I for one would MUCH, MUCH rather watch Zack Greinke on TV as opposed to being at the game. You can’t see movement on pitches unless you are in one of the 1000 seats that are directly behind home plate.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Here are the 7:
Friday 4/10 NYY – Opening Day
Saturday 4/11 NYY – nothing significant
Friday 4/24 DET – buck night
Saturday 4/25 DET – Jersey giveaway
Thursday 5/7 – SEA – Fox 4 School Day at the K (over 10K school kids)
Friday 5/15 – BAL – buck night
Monday 5/25 – DET – buck night
So, opening day doesn’t count (it’s always sold out), the school day doesn’t count (it always draws over 30K), there were 3 buck nights, jersey night (which is arguably the best giveaway item for the season). That leaves a Saturday night vs the Yankees, with no significant promotion. Yeah, Saturday night vs the Yankees ALWAYS draws over 30k as well.
Sorry, I don’t see one significant Greinke bump in the attendance. Yes, he undoubtedly helps draw 3-5k more per game, but my point is it should be larger than that!
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
My point was that there were 7 all of last season
That counts the bobbleheads, Opening day, Buck nights, and whatever else was going on last year.
We have played just about 30% of the season and that number has almost been matched already.
The fans are coming out to the game sin greater numbers than last season. They are going to draw right around 2 Million to the K this year, which I believe will be a first since the Strike. Things are good.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Let me try again
So, 50k people decided to attend either Monday or Tuesday’s game. My question is why would 34k attend Monday, and only 16k attend Tuesday, when Greinke is pitching? The answer is obvious – they were there Monday because the tickets were cheap and the hot dogs were a buck. The fans who picked Tuesday were there because they wanted to see a special baseball phenomenon.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Also
Monday was a day game and a holiday with gorgeous weather, while Tuesday was a work night with the threat of rain.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No
Reasons to go to game on Monday:
Free shit, day game – work on suntan, day off – nothing more American than going to a ball game on a holiday, day after a win, 1st day on a homestand
Reasons to go to a game on Tuesday
Zack Greinke Experience
BOOM! ROASTED!
Because people love free (or nearly free) stuff
Why is this surprising or disappointing in any way? Not to mention, Tuesday was a night game and was the day after a holiday weekend. Lots of people had spent the entire weekend out of town and had spent some discretionary dollars on gas, food, booze, etc., etc. Especially given the current economic climate, most people aren’t going to turn right around and spend more discretionary dollars on Royals tickets and concessions. And regardless of whether school is out, the people who have the money to spend (and who ultimately make the decision about whether the family goes to the park) had to work on Tuesday and work today, too.
Look, do you want a Fenway Park environment?? OK. Let’s see the Royals win a Series or two, or at least make the playoffs nearly every year for the past decade. Let’s see the KC metro area grow to the size of Boston’s overnight (of course, most Kansas Citians wouldn’t like the accompanying features/problems with that change). Let’s see the average fan/family completely and utterly priced out of attending more than one or two games a season.
It will get better in KC. Give it time.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
You touched on my point
When Greinke is pitching, I can make an argument that Royals are every bit as good (probably better) than the Red Sox, and that the K should be the premier game to be at in all of baseball that night. It’s not that hard an argument to make. Realistically, I don’t expect a sellout on a Tuesday night – but for crissakes, there should have been at least 25k there, don’t you think?
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Yes
But its just one game, and the crowds have been there for every other Greinke start.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Very true. I was one of the 20-25K that drove out to the K...
in the rain and waited out a LONG delay with the others just to see Greinke pitch a couple Fridays ago. Do you think the people that stayed were really there just to stuff themselves even more full of $1 hot dogs? Or to watch a free fireworks show?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
The hotdogs are nothing to write home about. And the “$1 drinks” are cups my kid drinks out of. It wasn’t about the cheap food.
And that wasn’t just your run of the mill rain delay. It started pouring around 4 and didn’t let up until after the original game time. If people needed an excuse to bug out on that one, they had it.
My better guess is that people are watching their money more closely, yet still choosing to make Royals baseball a part of their entertainment dollar. They may be more selective on when they go and how often they go. And that is going to cause losing streaks, bad games and other factors to impact individual game attendances. The good thing is we are ahead of where we have been in recent years with no reason to believe we’ll do worse from here on out than we have in the past. And it will get very nice if the Royals stay in it and the recession ends in July/August, like economists are predicting.
Exactly.
When it’s viable to go see a game, people will go. KC is not a Boston, NY, LA, SF, Chi, or even an STL. People here have LIVES. You’re mad that people aren’t showing up, but what do you put into the team? You’re at every game because you work there… Hardcore fans (apparently 15-16k of them) showed up to see Greinke start. On a tuesday. Compared to previous years, I’d call that a good fucking start. (pardon my language)
Like other have said, it’s going to take more than 30% of a season out of the last 24 YEARS to restore faith in this franchise. Because Glass finally realized that he SHOULD put more money, work, and effort into the team, that by the way the fans of gave him money to renovate their stadium and lets not forget profit sharing, doesn’t mean the fans are to blame for being conditioned into thinking that the team is inevitably going to stink worse than Al Davis’ corpse.
My crystal ball says that the Chiefs will not be drafting Aaron Curry. Their record at the end of 2009 will be 10-6. After witnessing the 2009 draft, their record will be 8-8.
" KC is not a Boston, NY, LA, SF, Chi, or even an STL. "
In that KC isn’t as big of a metro area as any of those places. To have a thriving fanbase a team needs to play consistently to bring people out of the shadows of doubt and start becoming believers in the team again. Losing 13-1 won’t do it. That’s about as bad as losing 1-0. Sure, you don’t want to get pounded, but you don’t want to get shutout, leave people on base, etc. It’s disheartening to think that your team can’t get a SINGLE run in any game; let alone several games in a row.
My crystal ball says that the Chiefs will not be drafting Aaron Curry. Their record at the end of 2009 will be 10-6. After witnessing the 2009 draft, their record will be 8-8.
Going to a Greinke start is easy
Try going to a Ponson start in the middle of the week during the day.
Now that’s a true fan!!
See
I’m quite the opposite. 100% of the time I would rather see a pitching duel on TV as opposed to in person, and I would 100% of the time rather watch a slugfest in person.
You can’t see details of pitches in the park unless it is truly magnificent. Yea, you can see the speed difference, especially on Soria or Grienke’s slow Curve, or a great change up, but hard sliders and fastballs are pretty hard to differentiate in person (unless sitting behind batter obviously).
Also, the K is SHITTY at showing replays. They have the biggest TV in the known universe and would rather use it to show ketchup & mustard running around bases as opposed to highlights of what people are there to see.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Actually,
the Cowboys and Jerry Jones one-upped the Royals with their 60-yard wide HDTV sets. Yeah, SIXTY FREAKIN’ YARDS WIDE. That’s bigger than the sunken trailers in the aftermath of Katrina. (Too early? nah.)
My crystal ball says that the Chiefs will not be drafting Aaron Curry. Their record at the end of 2009 will be 10-6. After witnessing the 2009 draft, their record will be 8-8.
We're averaging 21,984 fans a game, 24th in baseball
We haven’t seen numbers that good here since 2003. Its not freebies, people are coming out to see the team win.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I think this post lacks some thought and is an overreaction to one night.....
Why were there only 16,000+ at the K last night. The great crowd on memorial day was a combination of a holiday, day off, a day families spend together, the biggest home division series of the season, and then buck night. Most of the people that would go to most every Greinke start on tuesday prob went Monday. And for fans that dont hold season tickets going to the K back to back days affects their wallets given the recession. This happens whether you would like to admit it or not, even with your cheap concessions, etc. Not to mention an excited fan base watching the team look like complete diarrhea on memorial day. The attendance at other Greinke starts have been great considering alot of them came during a weeknight game. If you completely take out wins and losses I would imagine the organization itself would see this season as a success regarding attendance and a seemingly growing fan base. I feel that you didnt think this out well AT ALL, have demonstrated this to be an overreaction, and I find it to be one of the weaker posts I have read on RoyalsReview.
Wow. Take that, loyal2sdad.
This might be a little harsh:
I feel that you didnt think this out well AT ALL, have demonstrated this to be an overreaction, and I find it to be one of the weaker posts I have read on RoyalsReview.
“Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I made perfect sense thank you very much......
In fact, I think his post was idiotic based simply upon the fact that expectations have to grow slowly with situations regarding attendance, ect. Furthermore, the whole premise of people coming to the K for “freebies” doesnt make any sense either. Of course families, kids are going to the come to the k when there are giveaways. Plus, its a way that the royals thank their fans for their support. However, that is not the sole reason for their attendance. Why would anyone in their right mind go to a baseball game to get a ten dollar(potentially avg) t shirt and spend anywhere from $50 dollars and up at the K. Idiotic, you say, well that sir is idiotic. I do like the whole Billy Madison thing while it is directed at me. Thats a great part from a great movie but has no part in what I was saying thank you very much for your effort though. :)
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
NOW HE'S SPREADING IT TO BUCK!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 27, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Your last line just really reminded me of that scene.
And you haven’t been on RR very long if you think it’s one of the weaker posts that has been made. Although I don’t agree with loyal2sdad’s expectation that the attendance bump should be higher already, I think it’s FAR from one of the worst posts I’ve seen. He’s got a point, but I just think it’s going to take (and should take, given the franchise’s past and economic conditions) longer for KC to truly become a “baseball town” again.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
We essentially agree completely yet you felt the need.....
To try take it to me (despite me thinking it was hilarious, I love that part of that movie). I havent been on here long, and while I will not will a Pulitzer for my posts, I was just being honest when I found it to be pretty weak. I get criticized for comments I make which let me to believe that door was open for everyone. Its funny to me how people can essentially agree about a topic and yet still poke and prod each other. I realize alot of it is all fun and games but as everyone should know by now I will be honest with comments, take them or leave them. Thats the beauty i have found on RR is open conversations of disagreement with a little attitude.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct me if I'm wrong
But I think the purpose of that post was not to take it to 2Legit (direct the aggression of the Madison quote at you), but rather that the last sentence reminded him of the Madison quote, and so Sweep imagined what you said as sounding more like the Madison quote (thus imagining that the aggression of the Madison quote was directed from you, 2Legit, towards loyal2sdad). Methinks part of this little tiff is a miscommunication…
by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on May 27, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You are correct in your assessment
At least from my point of view. I generally agreed with the points that 2Legit had made, but thought that his criticism of loyal2sdad’s post was both a little harsh and unreasonable. I just threw in the “Billy Madison” quote because it was the first thing that came to mind when I read the last line of 2Legit’s comment.
Perhaps I should be much more specific in exactly to whom I am directing my movie references (if anyone).
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was hilarious honestly
But it seems to me the crowd on RR is split in half. Half of us love to make jokes, references, pictures, ect. That being said with some witty and sometimes bold comments (like my last sentence apparently). I would imagine this half is of the younger variety or at least share a sense of humor while all the while rooting for the blue religously. The other half strikes me as more of the older(or have been on RR longer might be a better way to put it) group. They are more interested in just flat analysis and care a great deal about respect. Even though sometimes some of us mean no disrespect and may be painfully honest they seem to have a problem with it. Perhaps I am way off and if I am (GopherBalls, etc.) feel free to rock me. Thats the beauty (or what I thought the beauty of this was here to begin with). If everyone agreed that would be pretty boring in my opinion. Sweep the leg I loved what you did and found it funny, witty, etc.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
No need to rock you
There is a difference between disagreeing with someone’s point — even strongly or using jokes to do so — and going out of your way to call their ideas weak or stupid or whatever, which adds nothing to (and usually detracts from) the discussion. I think everyone here wants to have fun rooting for and discussing the Royals, but few want it turning into the ESPN forums or some sports shock jock call-in show.
That was never my intention.
I never said stupid, I said weaker. And to me that can be seen as more of a compliment of the strength of what goes on here rather than a “shot” or whatever. I guess in this situation all i can say is agree to disagree.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Furthermore,
to me it wasnt your place to really say anything about this. Am I glad you did? Maybe. Only because its intersting how quickly ppl get pissed off or sensitive to comments that are ultimately royals driven. Think about it, you had more to say than the person that wrote the post to begin with big brother. If he had a problem I wouldve been more than happy to sort it out with him, as I have everyone thats had an issue with my blunt ways.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
We need an un-rec button
If you had read Royals Review for more than a month, you would know loyal2sdad is one of the most reasonable and thoughtful commenters here, not someone who fails to think things out or overreacts.
by Gopherballs on May 27, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
He probably is an extremely reasonable person....
That doesnt mean I agree with him here. I am a pretty reasonable person as well but that doesnt mean I want/need/expect you to agree with what i have said. I have read RR for more than a month and felt this one to be in the bottom third of valid or strong points.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
There is a way to disagree with someone here
and this was not it. Others disagreed with his points without going out of their way to call it one of the weakest posts. This is not sports talk radio.
Ok big dog Ill keep that in mind next time.
You seem to be a vey reasonable person. Do you have any suggestions about how I should say things in the future? Just a hunch, but I imagine you do. Not everything on here needs to be buddy buddy. Strong disagreements are apart of places like this and if someone wants to put my posts in the toilet I am man enough to deal with it. While it may not be sports radio, I really think you can keep what you think of what I say on here to yourself, unless of course you re RR security. If I offended one of your bff’s on here I apologize but there should be a little more room for open, aggressive disagreement.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
we're #2
in regards to the increase in the average game attendence.
- is Tampa Bay.
Which still has problems with attendence
by BHWick on May 27, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Overall, attendance is fine
as you point out. All I was saying was I was perplexed at last night’s gate. It does not make sense, IMHO.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on May 27, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah
the home game I went to last Thursday drew 23,095
And it was at 1:10 on a weekday. You’d think we could top 20K on a weeknight.
Greinke’s home crowds so far
10,061 (v. CLE)
36,363 (v. DET)
10,619 (v. TOR)
21,843 (v. CHW)
38,353 (v. BAL)
23,095 (v. CLE)
16,366 (v. DET)
So.. it’s been a bit shaky.
I'd like to see that list compared to two data points:
KC’s division standing at the time of the start, and their record over the previous 5 or 6 games…not to mention all the other factors such as day vs. night, weekend vs weekday, SI cover versus not, etc.
by Royal Revival on May 27, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I concur
I was at the game last night and wondered why such poor attendance to see the league’s best pitcher. I wrote my Royals friends from afar with a similar sentiment. Yes the Royals have had some poor results and sure it was a long weekend. Yes it was cool and there was a threat of rain. Using these as excuses just shows you that many KC fans will use these as an excuse NOT to go to the ballpark.
The Royals have routinely been 27th – 29th in attendance which the exception of 2003 when they were 22nd. They are currently 24th so it’s better but it’s a tough road back to dedicated fan support.
Criticism of this post is fine by me
All I’ve been trying to say is it makes me sad that Greinke’s “bump” isn’t higher than about 5k.
I understand the recession, etc. – but people, we are talking about what might be (so far, anyway) THE story of the year in baseball, if not all of sports! If he were to keep his ERA under 1.00 for the entire season, our grandkids would be telling their grandkids about “Greinke in 2009”. He probably won’t keep it there all year, but what if he does? Doesn’t that at least warrant 25k on a Tuesday night, regardless of the attendance the day before, etc.?
By the way, sorry if this post came across as defending Glass – those of you who have seen my posts over the last few years know me better than that!
I do understand that changing the culture of the fans will take time – but if what Greinke is doing can’t speed it up a bit, I’m sorry, but I find that somewhat discouraging.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
I think it's pretty awesome that 16k showed up
considering the trouble they are having scoring runs, the holiday weekend, etc.
Tuesday games so far this year
Copied from here
Only home games are listed, attendance is last number.
Tue, Apr 14 Cleveland W 9-3 5-3 Davies (1-0) Pavano (0-2) 11,756
Tue, Apr 28 Toronto L 8-1 10-10 Richmond (3-0) Meche (1-2) 15,191
Tue, May 5 White Sox W 8-7 11th 16-11 Cruz (2-0) Broadway (0-1) 13,419
Tue, May 19 Cleveland W 6-5 21-18 Farnsworth (1-3) Wood (1-2) 25,024 – T-shirt Tuesday
Tue, May 26 Detroit W 6-1 23-23 Greinke (8-1) Jackson (4-3) 16,366
Greinke’s start is the top Tuesday minus the T-shirt Tuesday. Tuesday is a bad day of the week for anything. Why do you think the Royals do T-shirt Tuesday? T-shirt Friday would be silly, there wouldn’t be as big an attendance bump. They effectively doubled their crowd by giving away a shirt that probably cost less than a dollar to make.
Also, I don’t think you can overestimate the fact that a holiday weekend just ended, and the game was on in HD for those of so lucky. Plus, I can sit there and drink a 6 pack of beer for the price it would cost me for one at the K. I love to go to games, but I’m not going to 16 Greinke starts. I probably won’t make 16 all year.
Finally, we have had 2 away games on Tuesdays, and those games have drawn less fans than our lowest game of 11,756.
That's my point!
Fans, evidently, would rather get a free T-Shirt than see Greinke pitch.
That’s rather sad, me thinks.
Your post also points out that the Greinke “bump” is evidently no larger than 5k.
I did like the trend in the Buck nights this year – the team has moved more of them to Wednesday, as they should. The White Sox (and others) have been doing this for years already.
If fans want freebies or discounts, it’s not unreasonable to ask they attend during the week instead of on Friday or Sat night.
Just my opinion, people. Everybody reading on this site I consider a die-hard fan already. Try not to take my laments personally – they aren’t directed that way.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
My response to your post has been take out of context, of course.
It was not a personal attack or anything close. I just couldnt disagree more with your driving point thats all. You do seem like a reasonable fan my friend. However, as stated above when I flat out disagree with someone I will reply. Furthermore, I would to say that other than this post I have typically enjoyed and agreed with your input. Go Davies!
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Quite honestly the T-shirt Tuesday promotion
this year is awesome. They actually have good looking t-shirts to give away instead of some of the crap from previous years. I will guarantee you that at least 30,000 will show for the Diamondbacks game just to get the Greinke shirt. And if Greinke actually pitches that night, it will be another sellout. He is on pace to do just that if Hochevar doesn’t come back until after that game, but that means a couple times someone will throw on 3 days rest.
Crap, I assumed it was sold out
We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan
Though to some extent 16k is rather sad for a Greinke experience
There are a ton of reasons to explain why it wasn’t in the 20s.
I agree that I would have liked to see it in the 20s but, I think we did witness a Zackkkkk bump, what could it have been otherwise? 12k, lower?
The Royals are going thru growing pains, this is a very new type of team the last couple years, people are not entirely sure how to approach this.
I guess what I’m trying to point out is the overall perception of the team (minus Zackkkkk) is perhaps people are waiting for the bottom to drop. It kinda look like it had on Monday.
Though the attendance for a Zackkkkkk start could be higher, I am proud that at least 16k saw that in person. It is an improvement.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 27, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions
Also, not all schools are out
I think Blue Valley and SM are still in…
We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan
...you know, all the rich Johnson County kids that can afford tickets.
We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan
by Royal Kingdom on May 27, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I could look this up I suppose
How many season tickets are there out there? Don’t those get “counted” in the announced attendance every night even if the seats are empty?
Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.
Royals sold 8,500 season tickets this year
So its rather impressive that they are able to attract 10-12,000 walk-ups. I would guess that is one of the lowest season ticket bases in baseball.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
thanks retro that was my point
I thought it was less than 10,000. So 16.33K grabbed a probable 8K in walkups on a night that has been beaten to death as a night not probable to draw a big crowd.
16,366 – 8500 = 7866 walkups (Hardcore Fans? or do they already have the season tickets?)
Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.
yes, announced attendance = paid attendance, not turnstile
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
The key point from the first sentence of the post...
The point of the post is that KC has a small base of hardcore fans. Hardcore fans forget the weather, their post Memorial Day hangovers, the fact that they got beat by a touchdown and two field goals the day before and are swooning record wise, don’t give a crap about free crap, and go out to support the best KC pitcher we’ve seen in a very, very long time achieve the lowest ERA after 10 starts in 40 years. The fact that it was a small crowd given the conditions highlights the fact that the town really does have only a small crew of hardcore fans.
But I don’t agree that management has created a minor league mentality through the promotions. They’ve done it by sucking more ass than any other team over the past 20 years. True, free crap will draw more casual fans, and that needs to be accounted for in this economy, particularly with what is clearly still a small base of hardcore fans. Those hardcore fans will take time to develop, and will only happen with time and consistent wins. Greinke is contributing to a foundation that will help create more of those fans in the very near future, and its too bad there weren’t more there, but for now, the team has to prove to be more of a consistent winner over the long haul.
It starts with the kids who start to get excited about a team that wins. My earliest memories are of watching game after game of exciting early to mid-80s Royals teams, and I barely knew the Kings or Chiefs existed, because they were horrible. If the current team can start winning, it will gain traction with younger fans who will evolve into that category of lifelong hardcore fans, who will bug their parents about going to see their favorite pitcher until they give in and go, etc. It’s going to take a long time though….and they have to actually contend, which they haven’t done yet.
Bottom line: True, the team has improved, but it takes a lot more than not sucking ass to grow a hardcore fanbase.
I think I just repeated most of what everyone said already…oh well.
good post. i just can’t help but point out that there is a silver lining — Pittsburgh has actually sucked more ass than us over the last 20 years.
That's wonderful news!
After pondering the attendance a bit more, I think the strategy to fill the seats makes sense from a business perspective. In the early stages of rebuilding (don’t laugh, let’s call it the Moore era of rebuilding), it’s going to take a while to build a solid, consistent, year-in-year-out winning team. That’s what it takes to grow a loyal and rabid base of hardcore fans who will fill the seats. So, in the meantime, draw the casual fans with free crap and promotional buck night type stuff, until the team turns around.
I totally agree with the original post that it’s pretty embarrassing to have so few fans at a Greinke game though, especially after reading Rany’s latest round of “Zack Stats.” But most importantly, it clearly didn’t have an impact on his performance.
by Royal Revival on May 27, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Have they?
They’ve made the playoffs twice and were a Francisco Cabrera single away from winning a pennant. And they didn’t have a stretch of 100 loss seasons like we did.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I would say most of us on this site are hardcore fans
How many of us that live in KC were at the game? Not 100%, probably not even 50%.
I was at the game!
Out of the past 5 Royals games, I have been to 4 of them. I drove out to St. Louis with my dad to watch the royals get pounded 5-0 two nights in a row, friday and saturday. We skipped sunday’s game, and then watched the royals AGAIN get pounded 13-1 on memorial day. Finally, our day of retribution had arrived. Greinke was pitching. We just KNEW we were going to win. And sure enough, he delivered. 5 days. 4 games. 3 losses. 1 win. Well worth it.
You are truly hardcore
I went on Monday as my brother had suite tickets through his work, so I couldn’t really justify going back again on Tuesday with a pregnant wife and an 18 month old child at home.
I think blaming fans is a non-starter...
David Glass is presumably well-schooled in behavioral economics (more well-schooled than I am certainly) and so he understands that people have choices about where to spend their money. If people aren’t coming to the game to watch the best pitcher in baseball, it’s not their fault—they’re rational actors.
The alternatives are too attractive for him to keep prices at those levels and expect 35,000 even for the best pitcher in baseball. The difference between going out and spending $35 and $100 is significant, and a deal-breaker for many people.
If people aren’t going to the games, it’s not their fault. Make the product better or lower the prices.
I get your logic, but have to point out
that KC’s avg ticket price and concession prices are among the lowest in baseball already.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
And KC also has to be one of (if not THE) lowest...
in terms of average yearly salary and cost of living among MLB cities. So, the ticket/concession prices CANNOT be much higher than the lowest in baseball, as well.
I always find it funny when people simply cite the ticket/concession prices completely out of context. Of course they are lower. I’d love to see how many people would actually go to the K if Glass set prices closer to the Yankees and Red Sox instead of the Pirates and Brewers. It’s just the economic reality of this area of the country.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Bill James had a good quote
Something along the lines of sports is the only industry in which the customer is blamed for not buying the product.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Which is one of the reasons you'd have to love being an MLB owner
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, so what does today's attendance mean?
Basically the same crowd for a day game today, with overcast skies again. Not saying anything negative – just thought it was curious that today would draw equally as well as last night.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Its the Kyle Davies Bump
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, everyone heard about the Hillman suspension
and wanted to run out to the stadium to see how well Gibbons would perform.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Last night's crowd...
celebrated all night long in the parking lot and never left.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on May 27, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I noticed and thought the same thing.
Afternoon game, college day/ cheap beer before the game, and people are still hanging on to hope after winning last night.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
It was a College/HS cheap ticket day
Show your school ID and get a $5 ticket I believe. Then they all stand out on the party porch and drink. They even had drink specials for them in the OF prior to the game. I’d go too if I had a college ID.
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