Royals Drop Back Below .500 as the Davies Decline Continues
by royalsreview on May 27, 2009 6:06 PM EDT
in News
118 comments
The mysterious Davies-Bannister body swap continued today, with Hiram turning in a vintage Banny 2007 performance, only without the BABIP luck. Davies's one strikeout performance was a disapointment, as it followed a semi-bounce-back outing against the Cardinals (7 Ks). Davies is averaging 2.8 strikeouts per start over his last seven starts. (I didn't feel like calculating K/9 by hand.)
Smart people... I invite your help on Davies.
The reshuffling of the division continues: Detroit at the top, Minnesota, KC and the White Sox essentially tied in the middle, then the Indians further back.
But hey, as far as we know Gibbons made it through a day as manager without getting into a shouting match with a player.
I'll give Jose Guillen a dollar to write, "the ship is sinking," on a wipeboard. What's the worst, err, best, that could happen?
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John Gibbons isn't actually managerial material
but he shares one trait with Trey. They both love them some HoRam.
by BHWick on May 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually
liked that he used him as a LOOGY
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
by kcscoliny on May 27, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waiting for another fanpost...
asking when the Royals should seriously consider extending Kyle Davies.
by djk royal on May 27, 2009 6:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Hiram, Hiram, Hiram
You frustrate me to no end.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2009 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Goodbye Over 500 Record
In my opinion, I don’t think we will be over 500 again this season. I am trying to think of the last series that we won. It took a total team effort to get us to where we are today. We are not in bad shape record wise, but this team does not scare anyone.
by BlueBloodRoyal on May 27, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I all along thought it was a bit overzealous.....
Even with his spring training and early season success that he was ever gonna be a solid number three starter. He has never sustained any major league success, has problems with command, and is ultimately an enigma. With the numbers he is putting up thus far I would consider appropriate for a #5 starter, MAYBE. I appreciate the royals gamble on him much more than the flying dutchmen Ponson but neither ever excited me. We re getting the same guy that the braves felt wasnt good enough. The way its shaping up winning 2 of 5 isnt going to cut it (assuming Greinke and one of the guys we throw out there can contain themselves from shitting all over themselves). Its gonna be a very long season getting excited once every fifth day. Davies provides me no hope for now, or in the future that he ll straighten it out. The mystical cutter that threw people off the first month of the season is longer doing so. He is the same guy that has failed his entire professional career (around 90 starts i believe). Period.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What I had to say comes off negative and i guess it is but
It all makes too much sense and there is nothing that is not evident either. Truly scary. I think, best case scenario, he ll be a guy that looks great once every three outings and the other two will struggle with comand, walk ppl, and not strike anybody out all the while struggling with first innings. Not the recipe for a #3, never will be.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to tell the difference between Davies failing
and Davies being injured a lot after he first broke through the Braves. Either way, a 5.09 ERA is definitely acceptable from a No. 5. And his FIP currently stands at a respectable 4.55, which is just around average and, thus, fine for a middle of the rotation pitcher. Davies “failing” does have something to do with the supporting cast around him and luck.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 27, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ill give you that. The team around him is hurting him, but he wouldnt start on a good team either.
Or be on their roster. So to me thats kinda a mute point. But yeah in a perfect world on a better team his numbers would be better.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would
As NHZ said, his FIP is perfectly adequate for a mid/back type of guy. If he went through waivers he would be claimed in 5 minutes.
by kcbottom9th on May 27, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is your point he could make an upper echelon spot as a starter or in the bullpen?
IMO he could be on a good team to be in long relief or other spotty pen work. I dont disagree he would be claimed quickly, but my question is claimed to do what exactly? I think this royals team is really further away from asking him to be a #3 vs him being a #5 for a top tier organization. Bare in mind the royals took a chance on him this year when, to my knowledge(which could be wrong i add), other teams frankly were not that interested at all. I do admit you guys know the depths of these things more than I.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those stats do not include today's game
2 HRs, 2 BB, and 1 K in only 5.1 IP is going to do some damage to that FIP. That said, he’s fine as a backend starter until the team adds better options from outside the organization, Cortes puts it together, the first of the slew of interesting arms in A ball makes it through the system, or Davies gets too expensive in arbitration.
by Gopherballs on May 27, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also completely possible that Davies will turn things around
and pitch more like he did in late 2008. I see a lot of people rushing to condemn him, but his FIP will still be in the high 4s – running a bit high for a mid-rotation guy but still okay – after the latest start, and he’s shown the ability to be better than he is. No one should dispute the fact that he and Meche have gotten squashed by our defense.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 27, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
High 4s is more of a backend starter
but yeah, leave him alone for now and hope he finds the right balance.
by Gopherballs on May 27, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's not go nuts about the defense
his tRA — a defense-neutral stat — was below replacement level not long ago, and will be headinb back towards it when Stat Corner updates. Indeed, while KC’s defense does, in fact, suck, not including today’s game, his O-xO (outs – expected outs) hows that he’s actually had slighly better than average luck re: balls in play and defense.
Yes, he’s shown the ability to sometimes pitch very well, but his averages include that as well as his “other” starts. And is averages out to a pretty crappy pitcher.
I’m not saying “give up on him” or that he doesn’t have a place in a rotation while he’s cheap. But if the “Davies as mid-rotation starter” train hasn’t left the station, the conductor is getting ready to call “all aboard.”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on May 27, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The train has pulled out of the station, and reached it's destination
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing that makes me doubt that
he’s a crappy pitcher, end of story – to kind of restate previous assertion – is that I don’t think we should take his terrible year with the Braves without a grain of salt. Davies kind of “broke out” last year, and I don’t expect to see 6.50 ERA – with equally bad peripherals – come back. I think the injury problems and a rough transition to the majors as a result led to a couple lost years.
He’s cheap, so if ALL he is is a back of the rotation pitcher, he’s still okay for now.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 27, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offense is bound to get better
I fear however the pitching will regress quite a bit
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 27, 2009 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say the offenses numbers on the season are about where we should expect them to be at the end of the season.
Hopefully I’m wrong.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on May 27, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shave the fucking beard Davies
It’s not 1978 & you aint Al Hrabosky
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's almost as if...
the rhythm of the rotation is off and is contributing to the sputtering wins and losses.
Having Bannister at the number 3 slot would create some continuity after the first two starters and possibly create some momentum. It’s hard to get winning streaks going when one of your worst starters follows your best.
by CaseyRoyal on May 27, 2009 7:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe in rhythm
I do believe in bad defense making all of our starters except Greinke the Invincible look worse than they are.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 27, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont the worst starters normally follow the best?
is there any real difference b/w going banny, gil, zack then going gil, zack, banny?
Fire Hillman
by billybeingbilly on May 27, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On most teams, number two starters
follow your number one starter. The Royals pattern has been 2-1-4-5-3, but now it’ll be different with the 4 man rotation we’re going to have for the next couple of weeks.
And I do believe in the psychological effect of bad starters following good, when it comes to the mindset of the offense. Having a crappy start after a gem by your ace can kill momentum.
by CaseyRoyal on May 27, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but couldn't you just flip it around?
and say that the bad starters would feel less pressure following a better starter?
by royalsreview on May 28, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
but I’m thinking mostly of the psychological ramifications on the offense in this case.
by CaseyRoyal on May 28, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davies
He has command and control problems, and has had them since he came up with the Braves. He has boosted his swinging strike rate this year (with a more modest bump in strikeouts), but it appears to have come at the cost of more balls (and more walks) and more pitches over the plate that hitters can park in the seats. In the end, Davies might be best as a reliever where his velocity should get a bump and control is not as important. But considering that the organization does not really have any other potential starters breaking down the door, the team is fine leaving him at the back of the rotation for now and hoping he can find a better balance before he gets too expensive in arbitration.
by Gopherballs on May 27, 2009 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still think the case can be made
that the team would be better, in 2009, with Ponson in the rotation and Davies in the bullpen. You just touched on why that is
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree, completely.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Respectfully
You disagreeing with me is the biggest compliment to that little theory,
Well, that and, you know, the numbers
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever alot of others disagree with you as well....
A picture of DDJ wont bail you out of being wrong. You ll still be pretty cute though which seems to be your M.O. so keep it up if it makes you happy. However, Ponson being in the rotation makes no sense, didnt at the beginning, wont in the middle, and everyone will and does know that he does not help the royals at the end of the season. Assuming of course he is still on the roster. But you never know, unless you do know, which i do. I tried to be friendly earlier but you continue to speak idiocy. What are you going to tell me next? That Mitch Maier could really help out at short? Its ok to admit you typed something that wont help the royals. Ive done it. We all have, but dont be so prideful or ridiculous that you honestly think Ponson is a boost in the rotation ( esp given the four man rotation we re running for the short term). Have a blessed evening.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screw Ponson
Hand the ball to Bale and see if he can get things done.
by CaseyRoyal on May 27, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No,
I actually like Bale in the pen. Might be a useful guy out there.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did look damn good in StL
Hopefully he can put his injury riddled past behind him and help the team in some capacity the rest of the season.
But I do hope his presence signifies the end of the HoRam experiment when Waechter/Soria is ready to come back.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more.
We have him and he has looked good when healthy. A few guys around RR seem to still have a (very) little faith in Horam out of the pen, I don’t.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anybody here has faith
in HoRam. Not that I’ve read anyway.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NY has been catiously optimistic about his tRa
out of the pen. He hated him as a starter, but wasn’t ready to ship him out of the pen.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it...
This post was just 19 short days ago, before Hochevar was called up, and Ponson was put in the bullpen, not Davies. (It may be 3 weeks old, but it is the only metric I could put together that only showed Ponsons #’s as a starter. Admittedly, Davies has improved these numbers over his last 4 starts, albeit not greatly)
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/5/8/869119/royals-rotation-fip-tra-tra+
Since then, Davies has pitched a little bit better. His FIP is closer to Ponson (I think it is 4.55) as a starter, but he still has not averaged 6 innings per start.
In his 6 starts, Sidney went more than 6 innings 4 times.
In his 10 starts, Kyle has managed 5 such outings.
They put up similar numbers as starters, but having Kyle in the rotation has constantly led to a greater strain on the bullpen. The bullpen is weaker with Ponson than it would be with Davies, because Davies does throw harder, and can get a strikeout (more valuable from the pen in many situations) with more frequency. So, in sumation, having Davies in your rotation over Ponson effectively makes the rotation the same strength, while weakening the bullpen.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Furthermore
Davies as a starter TRA+ = 96
Ponson as a starter TRA+ = 101
WAR
Ponson = .4
Davies = .4
Basically, at minimum, all you are doing by calling me a retard or a moron, or whatever your childish brain is coming up with, for me thinking Ponson is an EQUAL option in the rotation as Davies is making yourself look foolish. And if you are so convinced that Davies is SOOOOOOO much better than “Pontoon” or whatever bandwagon nickname you are gonna call him next it just backs up that point even more.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn numbers!
rabble rabble rabble rabble.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break.....
You can back it up with as many three or four letter stats you would like but the truth is, while neither are doing well, there must have been some reason why Ponson went to the Bullpen right? And Davies did not? Not to mention that Ponson is a fat, run-down vagabond that should ve never been on this roster. He wouldve been sent down but he would request his release if asked to do so. The Royals, while this is pathetic, dont have enough options to get rid of the fat fuck. Sometimes all these stats can essentially erase what the eyes and brain say. Which is “Sidney Ponson should no longer be on a major league roster”. Unfortunately, the organization is being rebuilt and the minors and we dont have many options with him. Im not being childish I just think you have looked at so many numbers you ve gone mad. Thank you for your time.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the entirety of your rebuttal is...
Ponson is fat and “there must be some reason why” he went to the bullpen. Oh, and he’s also a “fat fuck.”
Not real convincing.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
he's like this guy:
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That guy (Darryl Vidal...NOT the fat guy) was a badass
Those repeated spinning back kicks are fun to watch. He was one of only three actual karate black belts in the movie. “Bobby” from Cobra Kai was one of the others (I forget the actor’s name).
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I searched high and low for the fat guy picture...
I bet you have 50 of the “fat” cobra kai just hiding in storage. Ready to unleash at the right time.
I was almost to the point of throwing in the dvd and taking a picture of the fat guy.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, no...
that’s the first time I’ve seen the picture. Good pull.
It’s strange that he even ended up in the movie. Must have been one of the producer’s nephews or something. He doesn’t really strike me as proper Cobra Kai material.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok sweep what three or four letter stats do you have?
This site is becoming utterly absurd. Its a fucking country club. Anyone that truly believes Pnson is a better idea I have nothing for and I am slowly beginning to think this isnt the place for me. Its painful enough to watch a struggling product on the field, much less a group “out of their prime” former athletes with no experience think they can run the kansas city royals.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please
Change that “slowly beginning to think”
into
“I’m getting the fuck out of here.”
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why so you wont be challenged on your opinions?
You utterly disgust me. Because of you, and some other fucking idiots, I will no longer be on this website. I hope you enjoy playing swords with all of the other over the hill completely ridiculous royals fans. While I respect the vast majority, you and a few select others have really ruined this experience for me. I want to thank RoyalsReview for letting me in on some important information regarding the Royals. And while I wish this team the absolute best in the future, I feel that this is not a direction I want to pursue with my future. This site(again outside of a few bad apples) is a great avenue for those intersted in the royals while putting up with buddy buddy situations and people that are unwelcome to new comers. Truth be known, the argument we ve had makes me thank the lord that you and others have zero control over this team. I wish those who pissed me off the best, as well as those whom I appreciated their insight. I will close my account at this country club and leave you guys to sit around and agree with each other, whether it be for the better of the team or not. And we had a debate about attendance earlier today, and I would like to share that if a group of individuals that wanted to become serious royals fans read the way some of you carry yourselves they would be utterly disappointed and probably find another avenue to enjoy the great game of baseball.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, don't leave.
Just give everything a chance to play out. Hell, we had a run in when you first started here about DDJ.
If you read below, you’ll notice that me and GoBabies have disagreed about the handling of Luke Hochevar. Hell, I disagreed with the post about attendance today. This site loves discussion….have you met NYRoyal?
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its ultimately really frustrating.....
And the truth is I dont even know all of the stats you guys use. I really do love being on here and I got on here to have discussion and learn some of these stats but I do know alot about baseball but its unfortunate that, while I am a little brash, I seem to get the brunt of alot on here. Ive asked questions of which many havent been answered so what ends up happening is I give my opinion and everyone immediately says Im wrong and throws a ton of shit at me I dont understand. I love the royals to death and want the best but what makes that exciting for me?
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't do anything more than advise tapping the brakes and reading a little bit.
We’ve all disagreed at some point or another. Like I pointed out earlier, I disagreed with the post about attendance on Tuesday (along with Sweep the Leg), although I was pretty adamant in mine. We were all new guys once, the more new guys the better. But if a guy comes in swinging from the start, you have to expect the other guys to swing back.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats cool man and I really appreciate it
Thats the thing though I like swinging back but I feel like I am fighting in a different weight class because no one bothers to answer me about what certain stats mean. I feel that I have alot to offer but I need some help with just a few things. For instance, I know enough about Ponson to know he had one good year with Baltimore, was overpaid and has bounced around with various teams since (StL, NY, etc) but when you start talking about what his “x” vs this guys “y” is I have no clue. You can make stats mean anything you want. But my driving point is why is ponson appropriate for this team when noone else in the majors would touch him? I dont give a shit how he pitched in the wbc. This is an example of many where I just get bombarded with stuff that I feel, while not really knowing, cant make up for my knowledge of his background. Can you see where im coming from?
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
IMHO, this is your best comment on RR to this point. Not to take anything away from your previous comments, but self awareness is a good trait. If a stat is shown that you are not familiar with, ask about it.
The prevailing opinion about Ponson was that he was a long shot. Somebody to hold the 5th spot until Luke had reached his service time threshold. That opinion is why I was pissed when word first came out about Luke being sent back to Omaha, but now I see that a 4 man rotation is being used. Made my anger pointless ( assuming Luke is called back up in a few days)
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you do not state your positions clearly and support them with
actual, relevant facts, then it’s very likely that this isn’t the place for you. Most statistics I’ve ever seen in the history of this great game we call baseball are “three or four letter stats.” They are all measures and metrics of the occurrences that take place in baseball games. Some are newer and more complex than others. If you want to argue why some are better or worse than others, then you’ll find plenty of agreement and disagreement on this site.
On the other hand, if you want to just say that a player is “fat,” that there is some vague, amorphous reason for why that player is now in the bullpen, and that he simply doesn’t “belong on a major league roster,” then you’re not going to find many people agreeing with and/or supporting you. In fact, you’ll likely see that there will be at least one person who responds to you with a more reasonable, less emotional, comment containing actual facts supporting a contrary position. If you can’t handle that, then I would say you might as move on from RR.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 27, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yea
Someone cue NY to talk about how much shit I got when I joined.
The fact is I’ve had to broaden my horizons as a baseball fan to ‘fit in’ here. I am the least sabermetric person on here, and I still think there are several numbers that can be spun however the poster wants them to be spun, but there are also stats that add things to the game.
If you want to judge players based on ERA & RBI, this is most definitely not the place for you. If you can’t take some shit when you can’t back up your argument without resorting to name calling or other sorts of backhanded insults (Over the hill, out of touch, things like that) you aren’t going to enjoy this site.
It seems to me the only thing you take shit for is because you don’t back up your arguments very well (See above Ponson post, and see past ‘B/c DDJ smiles" arguments) and then you get defensive despite not defending your stance. Again, ask NY about our battles and how I’d bitch & moan & call him a bully until I grew a backbone and stood up for my opinions with things that can be backed up, statistically or otherwise.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look guys see above. I want to be on here and share this with eveyone
but I have had many questions not answered regarding stats and the ddj thing, along with many others, was taken out of context. especially since similar comments were made from others and you didnt swing at them. Is it because Im new? Is it because I dont back down either. I mean I think its a touch unfair to not answer someones questions and then throw these same exact stats in their face when there is a disagreement. To me thats childish(im not trying to start another argument but I feel thats fair)
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never
consciously “not answered” a question of yours.
Devil_Fingers & others have written really long threads that provide links or definitions to a lot of the stats that are referenced by users on this site, the majority of them are linked here
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/3/4/780700/so-what-is-fip-anyway
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest if it is anything
It is your name. It sounds like a joke. If I wanted to make up a character to rile up the fan base here 2LegittoShit would be on the top of it. First of all, I’m not offended by it, I thought it was funny, but I did think you were a joke at first because of the name. So if you feel you get taken less than seriously here, I would consider a name change. But please don’t call yourself TPJforMVP.
by AxDxMx on May 28, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously?
how can you react so strongly to such a minor arument? we’re talking about Sidney Ponson here? one way or the other, you shouldn’t be this upset
by royalsreview on May 28, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you have simply jumped on the
pick on the fat guy bandwagon and refuse to look at the facts of the situation.
And there is a reason why Ponson went to the bullpen. He went to the Bullpen because Kyle Davies bought himself a fat bag of good-will with the front office of the Royals with his miraculous September last year.
Good-will doesn’t win games, hopefully Dayton Moore will learn that RE: Davies & Aviles specifically before they run us out of a division race.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I never said retard or moron.
Apparently everything is so “gentlemenly” that I have clearly gotten to you. Again, not my point. But by you calling me a child I believe you sir(or grandpa) is losing credibility.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea you're right
I was simply combining Warden’s use of “Monumentally Retaded,” then you invoked my name.
But lets see, you also said
“Pretty cute”
“Speaking Idiocy”
“Prideful”
“Ridiculous”
I could probably find more, but I don’t really give a shit.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey now,
I said I thought placing Ponson over Luke right now would be “monumentally retarded”. Never said anybody here or in the front office was.
I just think we need to figure out whether or not Luke can start in the Majors.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know how you used it
And I know it wasn’t directed at me when you typed it. 2dumbtoshit angled it at me
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wanted to make sure,
we’ve danced a few circles around Luke.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My big problem with Luke
Is his problems don’t appear to be mechanical, or with stuff. They appear to be mental.
This is really punctuated IMO by his working on not getting so “hyped” up for games this year. Now he looks like calm as a Hindu Cow when he is pitching.
It’s like he is trying to learn how to act, or listening to people ell him how he should act (which would be worse IMO) instead of just doing what comes naturally.
Just trust your stuff and pitch!!!!! When he does that, I think that is when we will start to see improvement out of him.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and my side has been:
throw him in the pen and let him use his best stuff for an inning or two. Hopefully (assuming he gets guys out) he would realize that he is a badass that CAN pitch in the Major Leagues successfully.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eek
Sidney Ponson and his very limited pitching ability probably weren’t worth bad feelings here. :(
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 27, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty torn on the whole
Using young starters in the bullpen thing.
There are times it works. Zack Greinke & David Price immediately come to mind. The thing that those 2 had in common was they knew that when they were ready, they were going to find themselves in the rotation. It wasn’t one of those Jimmy Gobble/Jeremy Affeldt today you are a starter, tomorrow you are a reliever type of thing.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point.
However, don’t we want to know if Luke is a David Price/ Zack Greinke type in the pen? That would help us a whole lot going forward.
Imagine him going to the pen and being unsuccessful, wouldn’t that be a huge siren going forward?
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I was speaking more to their ‘successful’ stints as not derailing their starting careers (assumed for Price) as opposed to how successful they were when they were in the pen.
And what I see with him going to the pen and being unsuccessful is him having zero trade value afterwards. If GMDM gets the strong vibe that he isn’t going to pan out, he needs to be traded while his projection value is still somewhat high.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really
believe that by the time Luke is traded he will have any value left?
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 28, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Moving him to the pen, while well intentioned, seems to me to almost surely reduce value faster than not.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You act like his value is high now.
If it is, lets ship his ass off to anyone that will take him.
I don’t think it is, but again I do think him facing MLB hitters would be a good thing.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 28, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think his value is high
but I think he has value to the right organization.
He hasn’t proven himself to be a failure, and he hasn’t proven that he is/isn’t a serviceable pitcher. He was a #1 overall pick 3 drafts ago (albeit he shouldn’t have been) and a team in a sell off mode may value that fact for the public relations boost to Joe & Jane Fan if nothing else.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 28, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still confused:
Are you ready to sell?
or ready to wait longer?
I’m about figuring out what Luke has right now then deciding. I just don’t think there is enoug evidence one way or the other yet.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 28, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ready
For either. What I want, is when GMDM gets a strong feeling either way, to act on it, as opposed to waiting and waiting either way.
i.e. – GMDM thinks that Hoch IS going to blossom into a #1/#2 starter if given the chance. Then put him in the rotation and marry yourself to the guy.
or
GMGM has no confidence that Hoch will blossom. Trade NOW as opposed to waiting for evidence to unfold. I like GM’s that are first guessers, as opposed to waiting to see every shred of evidence before acting (Baird). I hope that is what we have in GMDM
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 28, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
no reason to see if that Luke guy could do this…
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luke is already in the rotation
Davies is not blocking Luke.
by Gopherballs on May 27, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess,
but I’d rather have Hochevar throwing for KC and Hiram.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relief?
We have a guy or two in the pen that we can do without.
Horacio? We’ve got Bale out there now.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who replaces Davies?
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 27, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a question I can't answer.
And this will all be moot IF Luke is back in 10 days. If he’s not and we see Sidney get a few starts, that would be monumentally retarded.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 apparently gobabies needs to understand this as well. He is no boost, never will be.
by 2LegittoShit on May 27, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess I should clarify=
Ponson over Davies wouldn’t be a bad move at this moment.
Ponson over Luke is a terrible move at this moment. But Sidney hasn’t started yet, that is why I said if Luke is back in 10 days my whole argument is moot.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before Lukes StL outing
I would have argued with you.
I said before that game he had to go 5 innings+ and allow 3 runs or less to earn another start without a demotion. He gave up 4 over 6.1, and looked alot better than he had in his first 2 starts in innings 2-5.
He deserves a longer look after showing me something in StL…
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see the point in replacing
Davies with Ponson. That hardly represent an improvement, and takes all of the upside out of the equation.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 27, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument
is that they have been basically equal as starters but I think that Davies would help the bullpen more than Ponson does because he is more of a strikeout pitcher than Sir Sid. Sidney can get a GB when needed, which is a plus but that should be the new role for Wright, as he is showing that he is not meant to be a 7th or 8th inning guy consistently.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best thing about Sir Sidney in the pen is
I get to hear the trombones on the Border Patrol more often.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get that argument
I just think that Ponson is a zero upside guy in the rotation and a below average starter. Even if Davies hasn’t pitched all that much better, the chance that he has to improve makes it better to keep him in that slot, IMO.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on May 28, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
B/C Ponson has consistently gone further in games that he started, lessening the strain on the bullpen, which, inherently, makes the ’pen “stronger”
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did use this a reason for sending Zack back out last night.
Good reason or not, we all knew there was a decent chance Hiram would require some help today.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 28, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would also like to say that Joel Goldberg stood right next to my group
for half an inning or so today. Actually pretty cool guy, he hung out and talked with all of us. I thought he’d be a d-bag.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you tell him you host a show on the Food Network?
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on May 27, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
he's not falling for that one again
tell him you are John Mayberry, Sr.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on May 27, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't seem like a douche on TV to me
just a giant dork.
by AxDxMx on May 28, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the real question is...
when can we start using greinke like he was a collegiate softball pitcher?
where tpj used to happen but no longer does due to his current dl status.
by blue bandwagon on May 27, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
he'd be super
nasty
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on May 28, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello Royals debaters and possible haters of 2LegittoShit
Be sure to read this post that’s highlighted right here. Anyone who can take a beating like 2Legit has, and still post something like this, has some class in him.
Bringing the optimism to Royals Review, it's...
by ratherfantastic on May 28, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can we officially change Mark Teahen's name
to The Enigmatic Mark Teahen?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on May 28, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“I cannot forecast to you the action of Mark Teahen. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Mark Teahen’s personal interest.”
Then again, maybe he was talking about Russia?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 28, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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